diff --git a/episodes/1_0.srt b/episodes/1_0.srt index d770e5f..1c185da 100644 --- a/episodes/1_0.srt +++ b/episodes/1_0.srt @@ -84,7 +84,7 @@ live streaming and open source. 18 00:00:47,869 --> 00:00:50,090 -Nick Taylor: This, this is kind +Nick Taylor: This- this is kind of where my journey of 19 @@ -124,7 +124,7 @@ do this piece? I'll go look it 26 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,750 up, go watch a YouTube video." -And then eventually, you get to +And then, eventually, you get to 27 00:01:11,750 --> 00:01:14,060 @@ -142,8 +142,8 @@ can 30 00:01:16,909 --> 00:01:18,979 -do -- I can create a modal, I -can do the CSS Grid without +do-- I can create a modal, I can +do the CSS Grid without 31 00:01:18,979 --> 00:01:21,049 @@ -196,63 +196,67 @@ Kirk Shillingford: Hacktoberfest happened because we were like, 42 -00:01:50,060 --> 00:01:54,140 +00:01:50,060 --> 00:01:52,100 "Hey, we wanna do something -good," you know? And then people +good," you know? And then, 43 +00:01:52,100 --> 00:01:54,140 +people + +44 00:01:54,140 --> 00:01:57,349 were like, "I don't wanna do this with strangers, but I -44 +45 00:01:57,349 --> 00:01:58,879 wouldn't mind doing it with- with everybody here." And I -45 +46 00:01:58,879 --> 00:02:00,409 think -46 +47 00:02:00,409 --> 00:02:01,339 -that's like very important. +that's, like, very important. Like, I wouldn't have done this -47 +48 00:02:01,339 --> 00:02:02,269 with -48 +49 00:02:02,269 --> 00:02:05,750 people who I didn't consider, -like, friends, and good people. +like, friends and good people. -49 +50 00:02:07,189 --> 00:02:09,020 Bekah: Best of all, you'll get to hear so much -50 +51 00:02:09,020 --> 00:02:11,479 of the heart that goes into the community. And we're very -51 +52 00:02:11,479 --> 00:02:12,800 excited to share that with you. -52 +53 00:02:13,650 --> 00:02:15,539 Dan: If you'd like to learn more about Virtual Coffee, -53 +54 00:02:15,539 --> 00:02:20,189 please check out our website at virtualcoffee.io or say hi to us -54 +55 00:02:20,189 --> 00:02:24,810 -on Twitter @VirtualCoffeeIO and +on Twitter @VirtualCoffeeIO, and we will talk to you soon! \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/episodes/1_4.srt b/episodes/1_4.srt index 16b2834..d88cb32 100644 --- a/episodes/1_4.srt +++ b/episodes/1_4.srt @@ -5,7 +5,7 @@ welcome to Season 1, Episode 2 00:00:16,829 --> 00:00:23,699 -4 of the Virtual Coffee podcast. +4 of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. I'm Bekah, and this is 3 @@ -283,7 +283,7 @@ engineering from Iowa State 60 00:03:35,340 --> 00:03:38,085 University. But before that, -probably -- so, we- we used to +probably-- so, we- we used to 61 00:03:38,085 --> 00:03:40,830 @@ -291,13 +291,13 @@ own a 62 00:03:40,830 --> 00:03:46,560 -computer when — not like when I -was super young — but when I was +computer when—not like when I +was super young—but when I was 63 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,979 -in high school. And then -probably the first like +in high school. And then, +probably the first, like, 64 00:03:49,979 --> 00:03:53,729 @@ -305,102 +305,102 @@ programming thing I did was that in high school, one of my 65 -00:03:53,729 --> 00:03:57,419 +00:03:53,729 --> 00:03:55,574 parents' friends actually, they -invited me to come do like a- a +invited me to come do, like, a- 66 +00:03:55,574 --> 00:03:57,419 +a + +67 00:03:57,419 --> 00:03:59,789 month-long internship with them. So, I wrote software for them -67 +68 00:03:59,789 --> 00:04:02,159 the -68 +69 00:04:02,159 --> 00:04:05,189 very first time. Like, I'd never written code before. But they -69 +70 00:04:05,189 --> 00:04:10,469 helped me kind of write code for -the Kenya duty-free shopping +the Kenya Duty Free Shopping -70 +71 00:04:10,469 --> 00:04:13,634 network. So, I've worked in Visual Basic and ... Visual -71 +72 00:04:13,634 --> 00:04:16,799 Basic -72 +73 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,860 -and like, Access or something +and, like, Access or something like that. And for that, they -73 +74 00:04:19,860 --> 00:04:21,629 paid me with a US robotics modem. So, that was my very -74 +75 00:04:21,629 --> 00:04:23,398 first -75 +76 00:04:23,430 --> 00:04:26,700 quote, unquote paid project for writing code. And then, let's -76 +77 00:04:26,700 --> 00:04:29,970 see. -77 +78 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,220 -And then really, I didn't do -anything else kinda like, +And then, really, I didn't do +anything else kinda like -78 +79 00:04:32,339 --> 00:04:35,684 programming related, until I went to college. Where I kinda -79 +80 00:04:35,684 --> 00:04:39,029 did -80 +81 00:04:39,029 --> 00:04:43,139 a lot of different, like, tech support kinda jobs. But my -81 +82 00:04:43,139 --> 00:04:46,500 very first kinda like breakout into software development, like, -82 +83 00:04:46,500 --> 00:04:52,050 web development, came when I got let go from the support job and -83 -00:04:52,050 --> 00:04:53,580 +84 +00:04:52,050 --> 00:04:55,110 then I was just looking for something else. And the Office -84 -00:04:53,580 --> 00:04:55,110 -of - 85 00:04:55,110 --> 00:04:56,790 -Admissions that I was in the +of Admissions that I was in the university, they were looking 86 @@ -512,5275 +512,5065 @@ one of your tweets, Bekah. It was April last year, everything 109 -00:06:04,529 --> 00:06:06,719 +00:06:04,529 --> 00:06:08,909 was a dumpster fire. And I think I hadn't, like, seen any adults 110 -00:06:06,719 --> 00:06:08,909 -in - -111 00:06:08,910 --> 00:06:11,265 -a [chuckles] couple months. -Because I -- you know, I haven't +in a [chuckles] couple months. +Because I-- you know, I haven't -112 +111 00:06:11,265 --> 00:06:13,620 been going into -113 +112 00:06:13,620 --> 00:06:17,699 work anymore since about February or so actually. And -114 +113 00:06:17,699 --> 00:06:21,000 then I saw your tweet, I think it was in a CodeNewbie's thread -115 -00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,199 +114 +00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,398 or something like that, where you talked about Virtual Coffee. -116 -00:06:22,199 --> 00:06:23,398 -And - -117 -00:06:23,399 --> 00:06:25,934 -I figured, "Hey, I should go +115 +00:06:23,399 --> 00:06:28,469 +And I figured, "Hey, I should go make some new friends." So, that -118 -00:06:25,934 --> 00:06:28,469 -was - -119 +116 00:06:28,470 --> 00:06:31,529 -probably I -- no, I remember +was probably I-- no, I remember responding to your tweet and -120 +117 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,170 that I missed the first one of -those. And then I came to the +those. And then, I came to the -121 +118 00:06:34,170 --> 00:06:38,220 -second one. And I think I've +second one. And I think, I've come to just about at least one -122 +119 00:06:38,220 --> 00:06:39,509 session every week or so. -123 +120 00:06:40,290 --> 00:06:42,029 Bekah: Yeah, that is awesome. You have been here -124 -00:06:42,029 --> 00:06:43,904 +121 +00:06:42,029 --> 00:06:45,779 for almost the entirety of -Virtual Coffee, because we did - -125 -00:06:43,904 --> 00:06:45,779 --- I +Virtual Coffee, because we did-- -126 -00:06:45,779 --> 00:06:47,399 -think it was the first week of +122 +00:06:45,779 --> 00:06:49,019 +I think it was the first week of April, we're coming up on our- -127 -00:06:47,399 --> 00:06:49,019 -our - -128 +123 00:06:49,019 --> 00:06:52,019 -one year birthday, or +our one year birthday, or anniversary, or whatever, very -129 +124 00:06:52,019 --> 00:06:52,439 soon. -130 +125 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:53,139 Dan: It was crazy. -131 +126 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:53,949 Bekah: Right? [Chuckles] -132 +127 00:06:54,189 --> 00:06:54,759 Vic: Virtual party. -133 +128 00:06:56,250 --> 00:06:58,319 -Bekah: It's like, literally, I +Bekah: It's, like, literally, I have an issue open -134 +129 00:06:58,319 --> 00:07:02,339 -in a repo that's like, [soft +in a repo that's, like, [soft festive voice] birthday party -135 -00:07:02,339 --> 00:07:06,359 +130 +00:07:02,339 --> 00:07:07,300 [chuckles]. Okay. So, we are -talking - -136 -00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,925 -to you today about indie -hacking. And so, the first time +talking to you today about -137 -00:07:08,925 --> 00:07:11,490 -I +131 +00:07:07,300 --> 00:07:11,490 +indie hacking. And so, the first +time I -138 +132 00:07:11,490 --> 00:07:14,610 heard the term indie hacking, I -thought it meant like, somebody +thought it meant, like, somebody -139 +133 00:07:14,610 --> 00:07:17,159 that hacked independently, and [chuckles] so, let's start there -140 +134 00:07:17,159 --> 00:07:19,708 with the -141 +135 00:07:19,709 --> 00:07:22,410 actual definition of what indie hacking is. -142 +136 00:07:23,189 --> 00:07:25,350 -Vic: Sure. I mean -- so, it is a +Vic: Sure. I mean-- so, it is a portmanteau of -143 +137 00:07:25,410 --> 00:07:28,139 independent and hacking, but hacking in this case actually -144 -00:07:28,139 --> 00:07:30,119 -refers to -- I think indie -making is probably a better term - -145 -00:07:30,119 --> 00:07:32,099 -than +138 +00:07:28,139 --> 00:07:32,099 +refers to-- I think indie making +is probably a better term than -146 -00:07:32,100 --> 00:07:34,094 -indie hacking, that -- but I +139 +00:07:32,100 --> 00:07:36,088 +indie hacking, that-- but I think right now it's used kind -147 -00:07:34,094 --> 00:07:36,088 -of - -148 +140 00:07:36,089 --> 00:07:38,354 -synonymously with the +of synonymously with the indiehackers.com community, -149 +141 00:07:38,354 --> 00:07:40,619 -which is +which is, -150 +142 00:07:40,620 --> 00:07:45,600 -like one of the largest +like, one of the largest community of indie makers. But -151 +143 00:07:45,629 --> 00:07:48,240 it, you know, oftentimes refers to people that are just -152 +144 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,720 -independent, like solopreneur, -like bootstrap developers that +independent, like, solopreneur, +like, bootstrap developers that -153 +145 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,800 are kind of making and pushing out various products. You know, -154 +146 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,889 sometimes you do it for money, a lot of times you just do it -155 +147 00:07:58,889 --> 00:08:03,329 because making things makes you happy. I fall into the latter -156 +148 00:08:03,329 --> 00:08:03,810 category. -157 +149 00:08:05,519 --> 00:08:07,139 Bekah: All right. So, let's talk about some of those -158 +150 00:08:07,139 --> 00:08:09,238 things, because you're making lots of them, right? [Chuckles] -159 +151 00:08:11,009 --> 00:08:14,220 Vic: Yeah, some things end up- some things end -160 +152 00:08:14,220 --> 00:08:16,980 up going out publicly. And a lot of things don't. And I'm trying -161 +153 00:08:16,980 --> 00:08:19,619 to do a much better thing of that this year. So, I built a -162 +154 00:08:19,619 --> 00:08:22,258 lot of -163 +155 00:08:22,259 --> 00:08:27,240 -stuff. And then I used to kinda +stuff. And then, I used to kinda have this outlook of, "Oh, I -164 +156 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,339 -didn't -- this thing is not +didn't-- this thing is not perfect." And I'm just going to -165 +157 00:08:29,339 --> 00:08:33,149 kind of, you know, not let it go out. And my- my thing now has -166 +158 00:08:33,149 --> 00:08:35,580 -been to like, push things out as -drafts and kind of talk about +been to, like, push things out +as drafts and kind of talk about -167 +159 00:08:35,580 --> 00:08:38,850 them publicly, because you never know who is going to be -168 +160 00:08:38,850 --> 00:08:42,779 interested in the thing you're building. Let's see. One of my -169 +161 00:08:42,809 --> 00:08:44,924 -biggest projects — and it's -actually used — it's called the +biggest projects—and it's +actually used—it's called the -170 +162 00:08:44,924 --> 00:08:47,039 Everyoak. -171 +163 00:08:47,039 --> 00:08:51,570 It's at everyoak.com. It's a preschool management software. -172 +164 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:57,629 And it's used by my kids' school actually. I was really sick of -173 +165 00:08:57,629 --> 00:09:00,809 filling out all the various forms that I had to fill out -174 +166 00:09:00,809 --> 00:09:04,080 when I dropped them off. So, like, right now they do COVID -175 +167 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:05,700 screening, they don't use paper because they use, you know, -176 +168 00:09:05,700 --> 00:09:07,320 Everyoak. -177 +169 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,980 When you're applying, you have to fill out all these -178 +170 00:09:10,980 --> 00:09:13,620 various forms, you have to fill out all the allergy information, -179 +171 00:09:13,620 --> 00:09:16,200 and when it changes, you have to go drop off new forms, and all -180 +172 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,129 kinds of things, and I didn't really want to do that. So, I -181 +173 00:09:20,129 --> 00:09:24,899 worked with them to basically build this thing. And a lot of -182 +174 00:09:24,899 --> 00:09:28,710 different schools were interested in it. I have two -183 +175 00:09:28,710 --> 00:09:32,519 schools that use it right now. And, you know, it's profitable. -184 +176 00:09:33,299 --> 00:09:36,000 But yeah, that's probably the biggest one. I've dealt a few -185 +177 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,314 -other things that -- so, I run -this -- [chuckles] ran- ran this +other things that-- so, I run +this-- [chuckles] ran- ran this -186 +178 00:09:39,314 --> 00:09:42,628 beer festival for -187 +179 00:09:42,629 --> 00:09:46,889 the last 10 years in Raleigh. It's not happening this year, -188 -00:09:46,889 --> 00:09:48,689 -but it happened the last like +180 +00:09:46,889 --> 00:09:50,489 +but it happened the last, like, nine years or so. Let's see. -189 -00:09:48,689 --> 00:09:50,489 -What - -190 +181 00:09:50,490 --> 00:09:51,000 -else? +What else? -191 +182 00:09:51,629 --> 00:09:53,879 Bekah: Well, I just want to pause for a second -192 +183 00:09:53,909 --> 00:09:58,169 and touch on Everyoak, because I've got four kids. So, filling -193 +184 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:03,870 out those forms requires an incredible amount of time and -194 +185 00:10:03,870 --> 00:10:07,559 ridiculous effort, because we're doing it every single year. The -195 +186 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:11,850 -same forms, right? Like there -- +same forms, right? Like, there-- why do we have to continually do -196 +187 00:10:11,850 --> 00:10:15,990 this? So, anything that makes that process easier is in my -197 +188 00:10:15,990 --> 00:10:17,549 book, like, the best thing ever [chuckles]. -198 +189 00:10:18,359 --> 00:10:21,298 Vic: And a lot of parents think -that too. Like this -- +that too. Like, this-- -199 +190 00:10:21,719 --> 00:10:24,178 so, usually what happens, right, is the schools open up -200 -00:10:24,178 --> 00:10:27,839 -enrollment, and then it like -goes on for like, a month or so. +191 +00:10:24,178 --> 00:10:26,008 +enrollment, and then, it, like, +goes on for, like, a month or -201 +192 +00:10:26,008 --> 00:10:27,838 +so. + +193 00:10:27,839 --> 00:10:29,578 -And then the schools- the -schools take another like, I +And then, the schools- the +schools take another, like, I -202 +194 00:10:29,578 --> 00:10:31,317 don't know, -203 +195 00:10:31,318 --> 00:10:36,749 month or so to do the assignment. And at my- at my -204 +196 00:10:37,198 --> 00:10:41,009 three-year-old school, they actually just finished doing -205 -00:10:41,009 --> 00:10:44,399 +197 +00:10:41,009 --> 00:10:42,704 enrollment, and then did a class -assignment in like, a few hours, +assignment in, like, a few -206 +198 +00:10:42,704 --> 00:10:44,399 +hours, + +199 00:10:44,399 --> 00:10:47,399 and send all those out already, and the parents all love their -207 +200 00:10:47,399 --> 00:10:51,239 choices. And meanwhile, you have all these other schools that are -208 +201 00:10:51,239 --> 00:10:56,158 still having their parents drop off forms. And- and I mean, -209 +202 00:10:56,158 --> 00:10:59,788 it's, you know, it's a pandemic out, even if you're not lazy, I -210 +203 00:10:59,788 --> 00:11:03,509 still don't wanna come drop off -forms. And then their class +forms. And then, their class -211 +204 00:11:03,509 --> 00:11:05,549 assignment takes so long. -Anyway, it's -- the parents love +Anyway, it's-- the parents love -212 +205 00:11:05,549 --> 00:11:07,589 it, the -213 +206 00:11:07,589 --> 00:11:09,599 -schools love it, and it's -- and -it's going decently. It -- you +schools love it, and it's-- and +it's going decently. It-- you -214 +207 00:11:09,599 --> 00:11:11,609 know, I -215 +208 00:11:11,609 --> 00:11:13,273 don't expect to get rich off of -the -- of what the [laughs] +the-- of what the [laughs] -216 +209 00:11:13,273 --> 00:11:14,937 preschool -217 +210 00:11:14,938 --> 00:11:18,479 square [??] me, but it makes me really happy to be able to do -218 +211 00:11:18,479 --> 00:11:20,788 this. And it makes me especially happy that I don't have to fill -219 +212 00:11:20,788 --> 00:11:21,389 out forms. -220 +213 00:11:21,779 --> 00:11:25,860 Dan: So- so with- with Everyoak in particular, I- I -221 +214 00:11:25,860 --> 00:11:30,000 imagine with the indie hacking sort of like mantra is, you -222 +215 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,129 know, if you- you- you have an idea of something either in your -223 +216 00:11:32,129 --> 00:11:34,258 life -224 +217 00:11:34,259 --> 00:11:35,819 -or- or- or something that like, -you are excited about, or would +or- or- or something that, like, +you are excited about, or would, -225 +218 00:11:35,819 --> 00:11:37,379 -like +like, -226 +219 00:11:37,409 --> 00:11:41,549 make your life easier, and just kind of go for it, right? With -227 +220 00:11:41,850 --> 00:11:45,779 Everyoak, there's, like, the motivation from your side as a -228 +221 00:11:45,779 --> 00:11:48,779 -parent is clear, you know? The --- a-and it seems like a cool +parent is clear, you know? The-- +a-and it seems like a cool -229 +222 00:11:48,779 --> 00:11:51,779 problem -230 +223 00:11:51,779 --> 00:11:53,894 -to solve. And you said you- you --- so- so, the next step at -- +to solve. And you said you- +you-- so- so, the next step at-- -231 +224 00:11:53,894 --> 00:11:56,009 you know, -232 +225 00:11:56,279 --> 00:11:59,370 you can either do it in a- in a vacuum, or you said you actually -233 +226 00:11:59,370 --> 00:12:04,200 worked with your school to figure it out. Especially with- -234 +227 00:12:04,230 --> 00:12:05,730 with daycares, and- and things like that, that seems like a -235 +228 00:12:05,730 --> 00:12:07,230 tricky -236 +229 00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:11,129 thing to step in-into, unless you have, you know, some -237 +230 00:12:11,129 --> 00:12:12,929 -assurance that you [chuckles] -- +assurance that you [chuckles]-- you know, you're doing it the -238 +231 00:12:12,929 --> 00:12:14,729 right way, or the- the -239 -00:12:14,730 --> 00:12:16,874 +232 +00:12:14,730 --> 00:12:19,018 way that a school would want. So ... so, how- how, like, how did -240 -00:12:16,874 --> 00:12:19,018 -that - -241 +233 00:12:19,019 --> 00:12:21,029 -process work out? Like, at the -beginning, at least? +that process work out? Like, at +the beginning, at least? -242 +234 00:12:21,539 --> 00:12:23,580 Vic: Yeah. So, you said the right thing there, -243 +235 00:12:23,580 --> 00:12:26,549 -which is that it -- so, it +which is that it-- so, it definitely is easier to work on -244 +236 00:12:26,549 --> 00:12:29,340 things that scratch your own itch, because you just have to -245 -00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:31,650 +237 +00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:33,960 talk to fewer people, right? But -in order for something to be -- +in order for something to be-- -246 -00:12:31,650 --> 00:12:33,960 -I - -247 +238 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,059 -mean, it depends on how you +I mean, it depends on how you define success, right? If you -248 +239 00:12:36,059 --> 00:12:38,879 want to build something for the sake of building something, and -249 +240 00:12:38,879 --> 00:12:42,360 -just get those -- you know, get +just get those-- you know, get that muscle memory working of -250 +241 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:47,940 just building things and getting them out, you know, maybe you -251 +242 00:12:47,940 --> 00:12:51,269 want to only scratch your own itch. But if you're trying to -252 +243 00:12:51,269 --> 00:12:53,789 monetize it, or if you're trying to help people other than -253 +244 00:12:53,789 --> 00:12:57,059 yourself, you're gonna have to go talk to people. It's -254 +245 00:12:57,059 --> 00:13:00,450 -definitely easier when there's --- when you're working with just +definitely easier when there's-- +when you're working with just -255 +246 00:13:00,450 --> 00:13:04,649 one school, right? But then the- -the fun thing is -- so, I built +the fun thing is-- so, I built -256 +247 00:13:04,649 --> 00:13:07,649 something very custom to that school. But then I saw things in -257 +248 00:13:07,649 --> 00:13:09,479 their process that I could -improve. So, I would work on +improve. So, I would work on, -258 +249 00:13:09,479 --> 00:13:11,309 like, -259 +250 00:13:11,340 --> 00:13:14,100 those improvements, and then show it to them. And they were -260 +251 00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:15,809 really happy with what I did. -And they just -- they kinda just +And they just-- they kinda -261 +252 00:13:15,809 --> 00:13:17,518 --- +just-- -262 +253 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,450 once- once they realized that I was making their process better -263 +254 00:13:21,450 --> 00:13:25,200 for them, they just let me just do the things that I thought -264 +255 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,215 were good ideas. And [chuckles] ... and then when the next -265 +256 00:13:28,215 --> 00:13:31,230 school joined up, -266 +257 00:13:32,100 --> 00:13:34,679 I said, "Here's a system that works really well for school -267 -00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:36,374 +258 +00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,000 one." And they said, "Great. If it works for them, it'll -268 -00:13:36,374 --> 00:13:38,069 -probably - -269 +259 00:13:38,070 --> 00:13:39,000 -work for us." +probably work for us." -270 +260 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:39,000 Dan: Sure [chuckles]. -271 +261 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,276 -Vic: And then -- so, at this +Vic: And then-- so, at this point, [chuckles] I'm- I'm -272 +262 00:13:42,276 --> 00:13:44,552 basically, you know, becoming an expert in building workflows -273 +263 00:13:44,552 --> 00:13:46,828 for- for preschools. -274 +264 00:13:47,429 --> 00:13:50,639 And they trust that I know what I'm doing because some other -275 +265 00:13:50,639 --> 00:13:52,799 school uses it. So, it's kind of like ... I don't know what to -276 +266 00:13:52,799 --> 00:13:54,959 call -277 -00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,134 +267 +00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,800 it. It's kinda just like ... I- I don't know what you call it. -278 -00:13:57,134 --> 00:13:59,308 -Cloud - -279 -00:13:59,340 --> 00:14:02,970 -by- by just faking it, I guess. +268 +00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,970 +Cloud by- by just faking it, I +guess. -280 +269 00:14:03,090 --> 00:14:05,279 Dan: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's- that's really interesting. And- -281 +270 00:14:05,309 --> 00:14:06,779 and, yep, I don't know. I lost my- I lost my train of thought -282 +271 00:14:06,779 --> 00:14:08,249 there [laughs]. -283 +272 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,610 Vic: I mean, I've worked on a few other things -284 +273 00:14:08,250 --> 00:14:11,019 -there too, that like, don't -necessarily kind of -- are not +there too, that, like, don't +necessarily kind of-- are not -285 +274 00:14:11,019 --> 00:14:13,788 that -286 +275 00:14:13,789 --> 00:14:17,960 easy in terms of thinking about how to make it work. So, let's -287 +276 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:19,700 -see. So, I have like -- I mean, -you -- do you want me to tell - -288 -00:14:19,700 --> 00:14:21,440 -you about things +see. So I have, like-- I mean, +you-- do you want me to tell -289 -00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:22,000 -that didn't work? +277 +00:14:19,700 --> 00:14:22,000 +you about things that didn't +work? -290 +278 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:22,000 Bekah: Yeah! -291 +279 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,000 -Vic: Because it's [chuckles] -- +Vic: Because it's [chuckles]-- -292 +280 00:14:23,548 --> 00:14:25,168 Dan: Absolutely. I mean, absolutely. -293 +281 00:14:25,769 --> 00:14:27,690 Vic: Yeah. And then, you know, and it- and it was a thing -294 +282 00:14:27,690 --> 00:14:30,299 that I learned. I definitely did learn something there as well. -295 +283 00:14:30,299 --> 00:14:34,320 So, I built something called ... well, it was- it was called Dog -296 +284 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:35,984 Ears because I- I just found this picture of this dog I -297 +285 00:14:35,984 --> 00:14:37,648 really -298 +286 00:14:37,649 --> 00:14:38,834 liked with droopy ears, and I was like, "That's a good name -299 +287 00:14:38,834 --> 00:14:40,019 for -300 +288 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,779 this thing." So, it was just a- it was just a product that would -301 +289 00:14:42,779 --> 00:14:46,470 help you, like, search through your- your Twitter likes and -302 +290 00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:48,809 retweets and whatnot, because Twitter's interface itself -303 +291 00:14:48,809 --> 00:14:51,104 -doesn't like let you do that +doesn't, like, let you do that really well. So, I built this -304 +292 00:14:51,104 --> 00:14:53,399 thing. And -305 +293 00:14:53,399 --> 00:14:56,549 -my goal was just to like, see +my goal was just to, like, see how fast I could build this -306 +294 00:14:56,549 --> 00:15:01,350 -thing. And it took me about +thing. And it took me about, like, an hour a day, for 12 days -307 +295 00:15:01,350 --> 00:15:07,139 is what it took. And ultimately, -it failed because I was using +it failed because I was using, -308 +296 00:15:07,139 --> 00:15:10,110 -like a trial version of Algolia -and I realized that if I +like, a trial version of +Algolia, and I realized that if -309 +297 00:15:10,110 --> 00:15:12,000 -had to pay for ... like, it was -just not- +I had to pay for ... like, it +was just not- -310 +298 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:12,000 Dan: Yeah. -311 +299 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,730 Vic: -sustainable at the price -that I'll -- I could charged +that I'll-- I could charged -312 +300 00:15:14,730 --> 00:15:17,460 for. And so, I just let it die. So, the -313 +301 00:15:17,460 --> 00:15:19,769 website for that is still out there, but you can't really sign -314 +302 00:15:19,769 --> 00:15:21,629 -up. And -- but I learned like a +up. And-- but I learned, like, a ton of stuff. I learned about, -315 +303 00:15:21,629 --> 00:15:23,489 like, -316 +304 00:15:23,850 --> 00:15:27,480 all the wrong things you could choose. I learned about, like, -317 +305 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,179 needing to make sure that something was sustainable before -318 +306 00:15:30,179 --> 00:15:33,600 you, you know, spend time on it. And the thing is this wasn't -319 +307 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,539 even a, you know, this wasn't even like something that scratch -320 +308 00:15:36,539 --> 00:15:39,120 my own itch because ultimately, I didn't care about this -321 +309 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:39,120 problem- -322 +310 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:40,000 Dan: [Chuckles] Yeah. -323 +311 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,605 Vic: -you know? So, I just let that one die. But I learned a -324 +312 00:15:44,605 --> 00:15:48,210 ton of stuff out of it. I learned a lot of new tools -325 +313 00:15:48,210 --> 00:15:49,694 that I had not previously used. So, you know, I got something -326 -00:15:49,694 --> 00:15:51,178 -out - -327 -00:15:51,179 --> 00:15:53,129 -of it. And I consider that a +314 +00:15:49,694 --> 00:15:53,129 +out of it. And I consider that a win. -328 +315 00:15:53,879 --> 00:15:56,580 Bekah: For sure. I think that the framing of what a -329 +316 00:15:56,580 --> 00:16:01,470 win is, is really important there, right? Because you are -330 +317 00:16:01,470 --> 00:16:04,740 learning something, you can take that to a different project, -331 +318 00:16:04,740 --> 00:16:06,915 maybe it's not going to be the same product to that you're -332 +319 00:16:06,915 --> 00:16:09,090 making. -333 +320 00:16:09,090 --> 00:16:11,129 But now you have experience -that- that guides -- the next +that- that guides-- the next -334 +321 00:16:11,129 --> 00:16:13,168 thing -335 +322 00:16:13,169 --> 00:16:15,690 that's gonna be better. And if it's something that you're -336 +323 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,549 interested in, then, great. -337 +324 00:16:18,298 --> 00:16:20,818 Vic: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I have a lot of things -338 +325 00:16:20,818 --> 00:16:23,938 like that, right? Where the next thing I build, I'm not gonna -339 +326 00:16:23,938 --> 00:16:26,969 be starting at zero, because I'm gonna take whatever, you -340 +327 00:16:26,969 --> 00:16:28,724 -know, all the failed parts -- -all the good parts of Dog Ears - -341 -00:16:28,724 --> 00:16:30,479 -that +know, all the failed parts-- all +the good parts of Dog Ears -342 -00:16:30,479 --> 00:16:32,818 -you know, didn't fail. I'll -probably start from like, +328 +00:16:28,724 --> 00:16:32,818 +that, you know, didn't fail. +I'll probably start from, like, -343 +329 00:16:33,149 --> 00:16:35,818 something where I already have a site, I already have a way to -344 +330 00:16:35,818 --> 00:16:39,568 charge people, I already have, you know, all of that going. And -345 +331 00:16:39,568 --> 00:16:42,808 then I saved myself a whole lot of time. And I think i-it -346 +332 00:16:42,808 --> 00:16:45,103 definitely is helpful, like, -that way to have like a- a +that way to have, like, a- a -347 +333 00:16:45,103 --> 00:16:47,398 framework, -348 +334 00:16:47,458 --> 00:16:50,458 you know, a framework of how you would do things because it means -349 +335 00:16:50,458 --> 00:16:54,298 you don't spend time chasing- chasing, you know, shiny things -350 -00:16:54,298 --> 00:16:56,383 -of like, "Oh, let me like, build -the -- a whole new framework of, +336 +00:16:54,298 --> 00:16:55,340 +of like, "Oh, let me, like, +build the-- a whole new -351 +337 +00:16:55,340 --> 00:16:56,382 +framework of, + +338 00:16:56,383 --> 00:16:58,468 like, how -352 +339 00:16:58,469 --> 00:17:01,229 to do this." Instead, you're -focusing just on like, "What +focusing just on, like, "What -353 +340 00:17:01,229 --> 00:17:05,128 problem am I going to solve?" It's been helpful for me anyway. -354 +341 00:17:05,848 --> 00:17:07,499 I don't know if I, like, said -that clearly. But [chuckles] -- +that clearly. But [chuckles]-- -355 +342 00:17:08,190 --> 00:17:10,680 Bekah: I just learned so much from everything -356 +343 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,675 that you just said. I love that. Like, and th-th-this starting -357 +344 00:17:12,675 --> 00:17:14,670 with, you -358 +345 00:17:14,670 --> 00:17:18,569 know, this idea of you're not starting at zero the next time, -359 -00:17:18,569 --> 00:17:20,174 -right? Cuz there's this like -sense of like, "Oh, I- I failed - -360 -00:17:20,174 --> 00:17:21,779 -at +346 +00:17:18,569 --> 00:17:21,500 +right? Cuz there's this, like, +sense of, like, "Oh, I- I failed -361 -00:17:21,779 --> 00:17:23,489 -something. And now I have to +347 +00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:23,489 +at something. And now I have to start over." But you're- you're -362 -00:17:23,489 --> 00:17:25,199 -not - -363 -00:17:25,259 --> 00:17:29,579 -starting over at zero. +348 +00:17:23,489 --> 00:17:29,579 +not starting over at zero. -364 +349 00:17:29,579 --> 00:17:30,200 Dan: Yeah, I think another- another- -365 +350 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:30,200 Vic: Yeah. Totally. Totally true. -366 +351 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,800 Dan: -sorry. I was gonna say, I think another interesting aspect -367 +352 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,400 -of that is that in -- I mean, we +of that is that in-- I mean, we can all agree to -368 +353 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,539 not view this as a failure, or at least as a negative thing, -369 +354 00:17:42,539 --> 00:17:45,569 right? But knowing when to pull the plug or stop ... you know, -370 -00:17:45,569 --> 00:17:48,599 -stop - -371 -00:17:48,599 --> 00:17:50,504 -putting effort, or money, or -time into a- into a- into a +355 +00:17:45,569 --> 00:17:50,504 +stop putting effort, or money, +or time into a- into a- into a -372 +356 00:17:50,504 --> 00:17:52,409 -thing. I think +thing. I think, -373 +357 00:17:52,410 --> 00:17:55,769 -like a side project like this. -Do you have like a -- you +like, a side project like this. +Do you have like a-- you -374 +358 00:17:55,769 --> 00:17:58,259 mentioned you had sort of lost interest in the problem itself, -375 +359 00:17:58,259 --> 00:17:59,789 which is [chuckles] I'm sure a big warning sign, but do you -376 +360 00:17:59,789 --> 00:18:01,319 have like a -377 +361 00:18:01,319 --> 00:18:03,584 rubric that you use for your own side projects of when to- to -378 -00:18:03,584 --> 00:18:05,849 -leave? - -379 -00:18:05,849 --> 00:18:06,924 -Or is it just like when it feels -like [crosstalk] +362 +00:18:03,584 --> 00:18:06,924 +leave? Or is it just, like, when +it feels, like [crosstalk], -380 +363 00:18:06,924 --> 00:18:07,999 I've done this? -381 +364 00:18:07,650 --> 00:18:10,650 -Vic: Yeah. So, this is -- that's +Vic: Yeah. So, this is-- that's a- that's a very good -382 +365 00:18:10,650 --> 00:18:13,320 question. And it's actually -kinda deep, right? It's -- so, I +kinda deep, right? It's-- so, I -383 +366 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,990 have -384 +367 00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:17,730 this problem. Had? Have? I- I don't know if I still have it or -385 +368 00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:19,470 not. -386 +369 00:18:19,619 --> 00:18:22,049 But it's [chuckles], it's this -thing of like -- I- I like- I +thing of, like-- I- I like- I -387 +370 00:18:22,049 --> 00:18:24,479 like starting new -388 +371 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,225 -things, far more than I like to --- so, I like starting new +things, far more than I like +to-- so, I like starting new -389 +372 00:18:27,225 --> 00:18:29,970 things. -390 +373 00:18:30,269 --> 00:18:32,730 And that, you know, that's the kind of like the most exciting -391 +374 00:18:32,730 --> 00:18:34,259 -part of it for me, right? But it --- but it's- but it's a bit of +part of it for me, right? But +it-- but it's- but it's a bit -392 +375 00:18:34,259 --> 00:18:35,788 -an -- +of an-- -393 +376 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,655 -like a- a negative addiction, +like, a- a negative addiction, right, to start new things but -394 +377 00:18:38,655 --> 00:18:41,430 to not -395 +378 00:18:41,430 --> 00:18:45,509 -actually like, keep working on +actually, like, keep working on them? So, I have to kind of plan -396 +379 00:18:45,509 --> 00:18:49,410 for the possibility that I'm gonna lose the interest in that -397 -00:18:49,410 --> 00:18:53,234 +380 +00:18:49,410 --> 00:18:57,058 thing. So, the way that I kind of work to mitigate that is that -398 -00:18:53,234 --> 00:18:57,058 -I - -399 +381 00:18:57,059 --> 00:19:00,150 -start to -- I have to start to +I start to-- I have to start to launch things as soon as -400 +382 00:19:00,150 --> 00:19:04,470 possible. And if I use the- the preschool management thing as an -401 +383 00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:09,210 example, right? So, the moment I -launched it, and rail people +launched it and rail people -402 +384 00:19:09,210 --> 00:19:12,509 started using it, it was no longer a thing that I could just -403 -00:19:12,509 --> 00:19:13,709 +385 +00:19:12,509 --> 00:19:14,909 say, "No one uses this. I can just shut this down and move on -404 -00:19:13,709 --> 00:19:14,909 -to - -405 +386 00:19:14,910 --> 00:19:15,000 -something else." +to something else." -406 +387 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:16,000 Dan: Yeah. -407 +388 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,639 -Vic: Now there -- now first of +Vic: Now there-- now first of all, I have proved that someone -408 +389 00:19:19,639 --> 00:19:23,278 wanted to use it, you know? And the real -409 +390 00:19:23,279 --> 00:19:25,470 consequences to me, I'd be ending it and not working on it -410 +391 00:19:25,710 --> 00:19:29,849 anymore. And the fact that someone was using it, then made -411 +392 00:19:29,849 --> 00:19:34,349 -it a lot more fun to like keep +it a lot more fun to, like, keep working on it- -412 +393 00:19:34,349 --> 00:19:34,349 Dan: Yeah. -413 +394 00:19:34,349 --> 00:19:37,334 -Vic: -so, it kind of -- like -kind of -- it kind of helped +Vic: -so, it kind of like, kind +of-- it kind of helped -414 +395 00:19:37,334 --> 00:19:40,319 that situation. But [laughs] not using -415 +396 00:19:40,319 --> 00:19:43,920 that example, when do I know when to stop working on a thing? -416 +397 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,490 When I'm not having fun with it. Because if I'm not having fun -417 +398 00:19:47,490 --> 00:19:53,009 doing something, I'm not gonna -keep doing it. So, people often +keep doing it. So, people often, -418 +399 00:19:53,009 --> 00:19:55,004 -like, talk about like, "How do +like, talk about, like, "How do you choose a problem to work -419 +400 00:19:55,004 --> 00:19:56,999 on?" And -420 +401 00:19:57,059 --> 00:19:58,529 so, there's several schools of thought on this. One is that, -421 +402 00:19:58,529 --> 00:19:59,999 you -422 +403 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,599 know, work on something that is -going to like, make you rich +going to, like, make you rich -423 +404 00:20:03,599 --> 00:20:05,940 for example. I don't know. That's- that's a- that's an -424 +405 00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:09,720 actual rubric some people go -with. Or work on something that +with. Or work on something that, -425 +406 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,230 like, you're passionate about. -Maybe that works for you. Or +Maybe that works for you. Or, -426 +407 00:20:13,230 --> 00:20:16,859 -like work on something that, I +like, work on something that, I don't know, some other- some -427 +408 00:20:16,859 --> 00:20:18,419 other rubric for you. And I -guess if it's not -- if you're +guess if it's not-- if you're -428 +409 00:20:18,419 --> 00:20:19,979 not -429 +410 00:20:19,980 --> 00:20:23,400 having fun with it, if you're no longer motivated to keep doing -430 +411 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:24,915 that thing, that's probably the [chuckles] time to move on. Or -431 +412 00:20:24,915 --> 00:20:26,430 at least, -432 +413 00:20:26,460 --> 00:20:29,460 you know, pause it. If it's the -sort of thing that can like, +sort of thing that can, like, -433 +414 00:20:29,609 --> 00:20:35,039 keep going while you can focus on something else, then that's -434 +415 00:20:35,039 --> 00:20:38,130 good. If it's the sort of thing that if you stopped working on -435 +416 00:20:38,130 --> 00:20:41,730 -it will just die off -- I don't +it will just die off-- I don't know. Maybe you should have -436 +417 00:20:41,730 --> 00:20:43,455 -launched earlier or -- I don't +launched earlier or-- I don't know. It's- it's totally fine, -437 -00:20:43,455 --> 00:20:45,180 -right? - -438 -00:20:45,180 --> 00:20:47,000 -It's totally fine to just stop -working on the thing. +418 +00:20:43,455 --> 00:20:47,000 +right? It's totally fine to just +stop working on the thing. -439 +419 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:47,000 Dan: Yeah. -440 +420 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,809 Vic: If that's what makes [chuckles] you happy. -441 +421 00:20:49,170 --> 00:20:52,170 Dan: Yeah, that's- that's a struggle that I have had wi-with -442 +422 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,555 -things like this, it is -- it's +things like this, it is-- it's sort of guilt, you know? I mean, -443 +423 00:20:54,555 --> 00:20:56,910 like, -444 +424 00:20:56,910 --> 00:20:59,910 losing interest a-as a kind of automatically stop working on -445 +425 00:20:59,910 --> 00:21:00,660 something if nobody else is asked me to. -446 +426 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,009 Vic: [Laughs] My abandoned projects need friends. -447 +427 00:21:02,069 --> 00:21:03,419 Dan: Right? Like [laughs], I don't know, or guilt, or, I -448 +428 00:21:03,419 --> 00:21:04,769 don't -449 +429 00:21:04,769 --> 00:21:07,230 know, shame even, you know? I mean, it's not like deep, dark -450 +430 00:21:07,230 --> 00:21:08,639 -shame. But it's still -- it's +shame. But it's still-- it's like, I have these, like, random -451 +431 00:21:08,639 --> 00:21:10,048 side -452 +432 00:21:10,049 --> 00:21:13,109 projects, there's links to them on my site probably, somewhere, -453 +433 00:21:13,140 --> 00:21:17,099 you know, from years ago. And it's- it's sometimes it's hard -454 +434 00:21:17,099 --> 00:21:20,534 to not f- not feel bad, you know, or- or embarrassed of- of- -455 +435 00:21:20,534 --> 00:21:23,969 of a thing where- where -456 +436 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,880 you can clearly look at this and say, "Oh, this is a failed side -457 +437 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,545 project," right? Like [chuckles], you know, a- a thing -458 +438 00:21:28,545 --> 00:21:30,210 that went nowhere. -459 +439 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,589 Whereas the framing of this was a side project, and it was kind -460 +440 00:21:34,589 --> 00:21:36,449 of fun, and I learned some -stuff. And, you know, it -- I +stuff. And, you know, it-- I -461 +441 00:21:36,449 --> 00:21:38,309 think -462 +442 00:21:38,309 --> 00:21:42,660 it's a very healthy and good way to frame things. And it seems -463 +443 00:21:42,660 --> 00:21:44,009 -like you have [chuckles] -- it +like you have [chuckles]-- it seems like you personally have -464 -00:21:44,009 --> 00:21:45,358 -that most of - -465 -00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,069 -that figured out pretty well. +444 +00:21:44,009 --> 00:21:47,069 +that-- most of that figured out +pretty well. -466 +445 00:21:47,730 --> 00:21:48,240 Vic: I hope so. -467 +446 00:21:49,710 --> 00:21:52,529 Bekah: All right. I wanna touch back on this idea of when -468 +447 00:21:52,529 --> 00:21:54,750 -to launch, you said, "Well, like +to launch, you said, well, like, maybe you didn't launch early -469 +448 00:21:54,750 --> 00:21:56,970 -enough." So, I know there's +enough. So, I know there's, like, lots of different -470 +449 00:21:56,970 --> 00:21:59,190 perspectives -471 +450 00:21:59,190 --> 00:22:03,390 on when you should launch and how much you should have done, -472 +451 00:22:03,420 --> 00:22:07,049 what features you have planned out? Or have you completed most -473 +452 00:22:07,049 --> 00:22:11,130 of the features on your list? So, I wanna know, what is your -474 +453 00:22:11,130 --> 00:22:15,089 -personal take on, on process and +personal take on on process and when to launch? -475 +454 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,049 Vic: You should launch as soon as you feel -476 +455 00:22:19,049 --> 00:22:21,809 ready. That's the thing. But -sometimes you have to force +sometimes, you have to force -477 +456 00:22:21,809 --> 00:22:27,000 yourself to- to accept that something is ready. Otherwise, -478 +457 00:22:27,029 --> 00:22:30,089 you will keep waiting, and waiting, and waiting. And it's -479 +458 00:22:30,089 --> 00:22:32,730 possible you might lose the motivation to launch it, right? -480 +459 00:22:33,089 --> 00:22:34,814 -So -- and the thing is, I- I +So-- and the thing is, I- I think when I say the word -481 +460 00:22:34,814 --> 00:22:36,539 launch, -482 -00:22:36,539 --> 00:22:39,990 -people often think like press -release, or like tweet about it. +461 +00:22:36,539 --> 00:22:38,264 +people often think, like, press +release, or, like, tweet about -483 +462 +00:22:38,264 --> 00:22:39,989 +it. + +463 00:22:40,289 --> 00:22:42,960 It doesn't have to be that. You could silently, quietly launch -484 +464 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:47,819 and tell nobody. But it might just be a psychological win for -485 +465 00:22:47,819 --> 00:22:51,630 you to know that though that thing is on, you know, on -486 +466 00:22:51,630 --> 00:22:53,130 production on a secret URL, but I can access it, and it works, -487 +467 00:22:53,130 --> 00:22:54,630 and I -488 +468 00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:56,594 can log into it, and I can use it, might be the psychological -489 +469 00:22:56,594 --> 00:22:58,558 win -490 +470 00:22:58,559 --> 00:23:03,119 that you need to keep working on it. And that's totally fine. Or -491 -00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:04,949 -sometimes you can just launch +471 +00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,779 +sometimes, you can just launch something with just a sign-up -492 -00:23:04,949 --> 00:23:06,779 -URL - -493 -00:23:06,779 --> 00:23:08,609 -that says "Coming Soon" and -"Sign Up For This", which is - -494 -00:23:08,609 --> 00:23:10,439 -good +472 +00:23:06,779 --> 00:23:10,439 +URL that says "Coming Soon" and +"Sign Up for This", which is -495 +473 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,859 -enough, right, for you to -- for -at least like drum up some +good enough, right, for you to-- +for at least, like, drum up some -496 +474 00:23:13,859 --> 00:23:16,859 excitement or whatever. But -yeah, I would say that, that is +yeah, I would say that that is -497 +475 00:23:16,859 --> 00:23:21,599 entirely up to you, but I like to default toward pushing -498 +476 00:23:21,599 --> 00:23:25,890 -something out early and then +something out early and then, iterating on that, as opposed to -499 +477 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,859 -waiting a long time and then -like ending up with, you know, +waiting a long time and then, +like, ending up with, you know, -500 +478 00:23:28,890 --> 00:23:30,359 dead rock or something like that. -501 +479 00:23:31,170 --> 00:23:35,130 Bekah: I feel that also deeply. I am the person that -502 +480 00:23:35,190 --> 00:23:39,000 creates things and then doesn't put them out there. And I was -503 +481 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,335 working on this project earlier this year. And it was a very, -504 -00:23:40,335 --> 00:23:41,670 -like, - -505 -00:23:41,670 --> 00:23:44,295 -deeply personal, but I had like -quietly launched it just -- so, +482 +00:23:40,335 --> 00:23:42,000 +like, deeply -506 -00:23:44,295 --> 00:23:46,920 -I +483 +00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,920 +personal, but I had, like, +quietly launched it just-- so, -507 +484 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,945 -knew about it, and one other -person, and I had said like, +I knew about it, and one other +person, and I had said, like, -508 -00:23:48,945 --> 00:23:50,970 -"You +485 +00:23:48,945 --> 00:23:51,300 +you know, -509 -00:23:50,970 --> 00:23:53,640 -know, I'll probably put this out -to the public in about a month +486 +00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:53,640 +"I'll probably put this out to +the public in about a month -510 -00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,150 -or so." Well they missed that in -about a month or so and then +487 +00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,500 +or so." Well, they missed that +in about a month or so, and -511 -00:23:57,150 --> 00:23:58,000 -like posted about it on social- +488 +00:23:57,500 --> 00:23:58,000 +then, like, posted about it on +social- -512 +489 00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:58,000 Vic: Oh, no. -513 +490 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,110 Bekah: -media. And I was like, "Okay, well [laughs], I guess -514 +491 00:24:02,110 --> 00:24:05,220 somebody pushed me off the diving board and- and now I'm -515 +492 00:24:05,220 --> 00:24:06,659 going for this." Which in that sense, like, was really good. -516 +493 00:24:06,659 --> 00:24:08,098 The -517 -00:24:08,099 --> 00:24:10,559 +494 +00:24:08,099 --> 00:24:13,019 project wasn't done, I scrambled for a couple of days, but also, -518 -00:24:10,559 --> 00:24:13,019 -I - -519 +495 00:24:13,019 --> 00:24:18,329 -might not have launched the +I might not have launched the project had somebody not been -520 +496 00:24:18,329 --> 00:24:19,170 talking about it. -521 +497 00:24:20,230 --> 00:24:25,029 Vic: You know, if- if- if you push something out, and if -522 -00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:26,934 +498 +00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:28,839 someone starts to use it, and their feedback to you is, "This -523 -00:24:26,934 --> 00:24:28,839 -is - -524 -00:24:28,900 --> 00:24:32,289 -good but it could use more," +499 +00:24:28,839 --> 00:24:32,289 +is good but it could use more," that's good feedback. I would -525 +500 00:24:32,289 --> 00:24:37,210 rather that then no one use it. You know, it's ... yeah. I would -526 +501 00:24:37,210 --> 00:24:39,175 totally- I would totally get negative attention [chuckles] -527 +502 00:24:39,175 --> 00:24:41,140 -then like +than, like, -528 +503 00:24:41,140 --> 00:24:44,650 none at all for, you know, something that I launched. But -529 +504 00:24:44,799 --> 00:24:47,200 I'm glad you were able to do -that. Like that would prob- +that. Like, that would prob- -530 -00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,430 +505 +00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,660 that situation would probably -stressed me out if someone did a - -531 -00:24:48,430 --> 00:24:49,660 --- +stressed me out if someone did -532 +506 00:24:50,079 --> 00:24:51,970 -an announcement of something +a-- an announcement of something that I built but I -533 +507 00:24:51,970 --> 00:24:52,869 wasn't ready for it yet. -534 +508 00:24:52,869 --> 00:24:53,950 Bekah: It stressed me out. It did [laughs]. -535 +509 00:24:57,309 --> 00:24:59,094 Dan: [Laughs] Can you talk a little bit about, like, some -536 +510 00:24:59,094 --> 00:25:00,879 tools you -537 -00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,935 +511 +00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,500 use to make- to make this process easier, you know, when -538 -00:25:02,935 --> 00:25:04,990 -you're - -539 -00:25:04,990 --> 00:25:06,640 -working on side projects, things -like that? +512 +00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:06,640 +you're working on side projects, +things like that? -540 +513 00:25:07,170 --> 00:25:11,430 Vic: Yeah. So, I- I use a lot of -no-code tools actually -- +no-code tools, actually-- -541 -00:25:11,460 --> 00:25:13,335 +514 +00:25:11,460 --> 00:25:15,000 low-code tools, I should say. So, I'm not one of those people -542 -00:25:13,335 --> 00:25:15,210 -that - -543 -00:25:15,210 --> 00:25:20,309 -like, builds entirely with -no-code stuff. But I- I do use +515 +00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:20,309 +that, like, builds entirely with +no-code stuff. But I- I do use, -544 +516 00:25:20,309 --> 00:25:23,369 -like, Airtable and Zapier are -probably like, my two biggest +like-- Airtable and Zapier are +probably, like, my two biggest -545 +517 00:25:23,369 --> 00:25:26,819 things where I just, you know, duct tape things together when I -546 +518 00:25:26,819 --> 00:25:31,589 need to get them to work really fast. So, the other day, I had -547 +519 00:25:31,619 --> 00:25:35,549 -this- I had this like, I don't +this- I had this, like, I don't know. I- I thought of this joke. -548 +520 00:25:35,579 --> 00:25:39,420 And it was kind of a really silly joke. And I- and I told -549 +521 00:25:39,420 --> 00:25:44,039 you, Dan, or I said it's a- it's a community for people who are -550 +522 00:25:44,039 --> 00:25:46,890 working from home to talk to -each other. And then there's +each other. And then, there's -551 +523 00:25:46,890 --> 00:25:50,789 sweatpants. It can be called meetsweats.com. And then, I -552 +524 00:25:50,849 --> 00:25:52,799 laughed about it for so long. -553 +525 00:25:54,069 --> 00:25:55,704 -Dan: [Laughs] I was -- because +Dan: [Laughs] I was-- because Vic- Vic Slacked me this on a -554 +526 00:25:55,704 --> 00:25:57,339 Friday night. I was -555 +527 00:25:57,339 --> 00:26:02,019 watching TV with- with my wife, with Emily. And she had to pause -556 +528 00:26:02,170 --> 00:26:04,540 what we're watching because I was laughing so hard [laughs]. -557 +529 00:26:04,540 --> 00:26:06,910 -And then -- oh, I +And then-- oh, I -558 +530 00:26:06,910 --> 00:26:09,640 shared it with her too, which she also laughed. But I was just -559 +531 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,759 sitting there on the couch ... -on my phone laughing, and it was +on my phone, laughing, and it -560 +532 00:26:12,759 --> 00:26:14,140 -just about meetsweats.com +was just about meetsweats.com [laughs]. -561 +533 00:26:15,289 --> 00:26:16,684 -Vic: I -- and I was like, -"Surely that's already a +Vic: I-- and I was like, "Surely +that's already a -562 +534 00:26:16,684 --> 00:26:18,079 website." -563 +535 00:26:18,259 --> 00:26:21,259 So, I went there, and it didn't exist, and the domain was -564 +536 00:26:21,259 --> 00:26:25,400 available. So, I bought, you -know, meet, like M-E-E-T, +know, meet, like, M-E-E-T, -565 +537 00:26:25,910 --> 00:26:27,724 sweats, like, you know, sweatpants. So, I bought -566 +538 00:26:27,724 --> 00:26:29,538 meetsweats.com [chuckles] -567 -00:26:29,569 --> 00:26:32,179 -for $4 because I was like, this -is -- the -- like, $4 is gonna +539 +00:26:29,569 --> 00:26:34,789 +for $4 because I was like, "This +is-- the-- like, $4 is gonna -568 -00:26:32,179 --> 00:26:34,789 -be +540 +00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:36,544 +be worth it for me." And then, I +think, I spent, like, the next -569 -00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:38,299 -worth it for me. And then, I -think I spent like the next two +541 +00:26:36,544 --> 00:26:38,299 +two -570 +542 00:26:38,299 --> 00:26:40,519 -hours -- so, I- I put my kids to +hours-- so, I- I put my kids to bed. And I was still kinda -571 +543 00:26:40,519 --> 00:26:42,739 giggling -572 +544 00:26:42,740 --> 00:26:43,774 -about it while they -- while I +about it while they-- while I was brushing their teeth, and -573 +545 00:26:43,774 --> 00:26:44,808 -they're like, +they were like, -574 +546 00:26:44,809 --> 00:26:47,239 "What is it?" I was like, "Nothing. It's nothing. Well, -575 +547 00:26:47,239 --> 00:26:49,669 get it." I put them -576 +548 00:26:49,670 --> 00:26:54,049 to bed and ... and it feels like forever, but it was just last -577 +549 00:26:54,049 --> 00:26:57,859 week. And while they were- while they were- while they were -578 +550 00:26:57,859 --> 00:27:01,789 falling asleep, I just sat in a room with my laptop and I built -579 +551 00:27:01,789 --> 00:27:04,759 out the site for this and launched it. And it took -580 +552 00:27:04,759 --> 00:27:06,769 -probably like, I don't know, -like an hour and a half or so. +probably, like-- I don't know. +Like, an hour and a half or so. -581 +553 00:27:07,460 --> 00:27:09,815 -And for that -- so, I just, you +And for that-- so, I just, you know, I went on Carrd, -582 +554 00:27:09,815 --> 00:27:12,170 -C-A-R-R-D-dot-co, and I -- so, +C-A-R-R-D-dot-co, and I-- so, -583 +555 00:27:12,170 --> 00:27:15,859 that's a- that's a site that I use for this, where I push out a -584 +556 00:27:15,859 --> 00:27:20,240 site, and I built a form on the -site, and it uses Airtable and +site, and it uses Airtable, and -585 +557 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,534 -it like, people can sign up to -be notified. And like, all of +it, like, people can sign up to +be notified. And, like, all of -586 +558 00:27:22,534 --> 00:27:24,828 these -587 +559 00:27:24,829 --> 00:27:27,529 are super helpful. And it's a way to early launch something, -588 +560 00:27:27,529 --> 00:27:29,419 right? While you decide if this joke is [chuckles] worth any -589 +561 00:27:29,419 --> 00:27:31,309 -more than +more than, -590 +562 00:27:31,309 --> 00:27:34,880 like, the airtime we're already -got. And whether or not -- the +got. And whether or not-- the -591 +563 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,349 -thing is -- the funny thing is +thing is-- the funny thing is, like, something, like, 15 people -592 +564 00:27:36,349 --> 00:27:37,818 signed -593 +565 00:27:37,819 --> 00:27:38,944 up to be early notified [crosstalk] after -594 +566 00:27:38,944 --> 00:27:40,069 it's made up [unintelligible]. -595 +567 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,549 Bekah: It's me. Number one [laughs]. -596 +568 00:27:44,069 --> 00:27:45,359 Vic: Yep. [Laughs] You were the first sign-up. -597 +569 00:27:46,049 --> 00:27:47,039 Bekah: Founding member. -598 +570 00:27:48,299 --> 00:27:50,759 Vic: So, this gonna be a really good example -599 +571 00:27:50,819 --> 00:27:53,519 -of like, you know, or like -- I +of like, you know, or like-- I mean, I don't know anymore. -600 +572 00:27:53,519 --> 00:27:56,219 Like, -601 +573 00:27:56,279 --> 00:27:58,589 -is it a joke? Well, it's -- if +is it a joke? Well, it's-- if it's- if it's just a joke, you -602 +574 00:27:58,589 --> 00:28:00,899 know, like, all -603 +575 00:28:00,900 --> 00:28:04,500 these people wanna be- wanna be -notified of like when this +notified of, like, when this -604 -00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:07,950 -thing launches. And then a few -other people like, quote tweeted +576 +00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:06,225 +thing launches. And then, a few +other people, like, quote -605 +577 +00:28:06,225 --> 00:28:07,950 +tweeted + +578 00:28:07,950 --> 00:28:11,970 it with their ideas of what it should be. And, you know, I -606 +579 00:28:11,970 --> 00:28:14,700 -think this is kind of a vote for -like building in public, right? +think this is kind of a vote +for, like, building in public, -607 +580 00:28:15,089 --> 00:28:16,724 -You don't really know what it -should be yet, but you take +right? You don't really know +what it should be yet, but you -608 +581 00:28:16,724 --> 00:28:18,359 -ideas +take ideas -609 +582 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:23,220 from the community. And, you -know, this whole thing — so, was +know, this whole thing—so, was -610 +583 00:28:23,220 --> 00:28:25,994 Carrd plus ... Airtable, and I think that's pretty much all it -611 +584 00:28:25,994 --> 00:28:28,768 was. -612 +585 00:28:29,309 --> 00:28:31,964 And it went out there. But a few -other tools I use are Zapier +other tools I use are -613 +586 00:28:31,964 --> 00:28:34,619 -like - -614 -00:28:34,619 --> 00:28:36,584 -I said, and then I use, you -know, things like Mailchimp to- +Zapier—like -615 -00:28:36,584 --> 00:28:38,549 -to +587 +00:28:34,619 --> 00:28:38,549 +I said—and then I use, you know, +things like Mailchimp to- -616 +588 00:28:38,549 --> 00:28:42,660 -manage, like, newsletters and +to manage, like, newsletters and stuff. But otherwise, I have a -617 +589 00:28:42,690 --> 00:28:44,550 -pretty traditional -- just to -- +pretty traditional-- just to-- not traditional, I guess. I -618 +590 00:28:44,550 --> 00:28:46,410 should -619 +591 00:28:46,410 --> 00:28:49,469 -say, I have like a skeleton -- I -have a skeleton project that I +say, I have, like, a skeleton-- +I have a skeleton project that I -620 +592 00:28:49,469 --> 00:28:52,528 just -621 +593 00:28:52,529 --> 00:28:56,339 spin up for everything. And that way, I'm not spending my time, -622 +594 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,250 you know, trying to figure out, "Oh, what should I choose for -623 +595 00:28:59,250 --> 00:29:03,089 this project that I'm building?" And it's just something that -624 +596 00:29:03,089 --> 00:29:07,500 I've kinda forced myself to not -do anymore. Where I don't -- +do anymore. Where I don't-- -625 +597 00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:08,820 -like, it [laughs] kind -- +like, it [laughs] kind-- unfortunately, it removes the -626 +598 00:29:08,820 --> 00:29:10,140 excitement of it. -627 +599 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:11,940 Like, I used to be like, "Oh, I'm gonna do this thing." And -628 +600 00:29:11,940 --> 00:29:13,680 then, -629 +601 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,589 I would spend the first week of -it just like, building the +it just, like, building the -630 +602 00:29:16,589 --> 00:29:19,710 authentication and doing all these little things. And now I -631 +603 00:29:19,710 --> 00:29:22,740 just know that I don't have to do any of that. I could just -632 +604 00:29:22,740 --> 00:29:27,119 spin up the skeleton project and just start off. And I know that -633 +605 00:29:27,119 --> 00:29:32,609 -at like minute one, it can +at, like, minute one, it can already charge people, which -634 +606 00:29:32,609 --> 00:29:36,539 -means that I focus on like, the +means that I focus on, like, the actual problem instead of like, -635 +607 00:29:36,569 --> 00:29:41,099 the distracting other parts of it. So, that's really helped me -636 +608 00:29:41,099 --> 00:29:45,210 out. It also means that I start fewer things. Because it means -637 +609 00:29:45,210 --> 00:29:46,305 -that I have to like actually -come up with like, what I'm - -638 -00:29:46,305 --> 00:29:47,400 -going +that I have to, like, actually +come up with, like, what I'm -639 -00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,440 -to do before I, you know, start -on it. +610 +00:29:46,305 --> 00:29:49,440 +going to do before I, you know, +start on it. -640 +611 00:29:51,358 --> 00:29:53,368 Dan: Yeah, I think that -[chuckles] -- I mean, I think +[chuckles]-- I mean, I think -641 +612 00:29:53,368 --> 00:29:55,378 that's great. I think that's a- a- a -642 +613 00:29:55,378 --> 00:29:58,348 great and sort of newer way to think about a lot of this stuff. -643 +614 00:29:59,519 --> 00:30:00,884 -And as a -- I mean, I, you know, -as -- I've been a developer for +And as a-- I mean, I, you know, +as-- I've been a developer for -644 +615 00:30:00,884 --> 00:30:02,249 a long -645 +616 00:30:02,249 --> 00:30:04,229 -time, and it's natural to like +time, and it's natural to, like, s-s, you know, think of a -646 +617 00:30:04,229 --> 00:30:06,209 problem and -647 +618 00:30:06,239 --> 00:30:11,159 say, "Okay, I'm going to start -writing React from scratch," and +writing React from scratch," -648 -00:30:11,159 --> 00:30:13,513 -you know, or- or- or whatever it -is. Because- because, I don't +619 +00:30:11,159 --> 00:30:11,160 +and, you know, or- or- or +whatever it is. Because- -649 -00:30:13,513 --> 00:30:15,867 -know, +620 +00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,867 +because, I don't know-- -650 +621 00:30:15,898 --> 00:30:18,463 because that's what my job was, -you know, or is. And like -- +you know, or is. And, like-- -651 +622 00:30:18,463 --> 00:30:21,028 sometimes it's -652 +623 00:30:21,209 --> 00:30:27,028 hard to not do that. But making it easy for yourself to- to get -653 +624 00:30:27,028 --> 00:30:29,158 going and solving the actual -problem is- is- is seems very -- +problem is- is- is seems very-- -654 +625 00:30:29,158 --> 00:30:31,288 -like a +like, a -655 +626 00:30:31,288 --> 00:30:34,078 very good way to do things like that. Especially if you're -656 +627 00:30:34,078 --> 00:30:36,209 starting things from scratch, often, right? -657 +628 00:30:38,730 --> 00:30:41,130 Vic: Uh-huh. This year, I plan to do that many, many more -658 +629 00:30:41,130 --> 00:30:45,450 -times. Like, I- I was hoping to -like -- I was hoping to start a +times. Like, I- I was hoping to, +like-- I was hoping to start a -659 +630 00:30:45,450 --> 00:30:50,069 new project every month. Or, I -don't know. I don't -- I haven't +don't know. I don't-- I haven't -660 +631 00:30:50,069 --> 00:30:53,339 yet decided, but it's January 28th that I think Meet Sweats is -661 +632 00:30:53,339 --> 00:30:55,679 -probably like the- [chuckles] +probably, like, the- [chuckles] the project of this month. But -662 +633 00:30:55,679 --> 00:30:58,019 in February, I'm- -663 +634 00:30:58,019 --> 00:31:00,450 -I'm gonna have to decide like, +I'm gonna have to decide, like, how much more work I'm gonna do -664 +635 00:31:00,450 --> 00:31:03,660 on that. Or if I'm gonna pick a new project. It's just- it's -665 +636 00:31:03,660 --> 00:31:07,410 -just training, I guess, to like, -you know ... to just push more +just training, I guess, to, +like, you know-- to just push -666 +637 00:31:07,410 --> 00:31:10,349 -things out ... in public. +more things out ... in public. -667 +638 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,039 Bekah: Yeah. I really like that -mindset. And I -- +mindset. And I-- -668 +639 00:31:14,069 --> 00:31:19,710 I've got 37 projects. So, if you would like one, I will let you -669 +640 00:31:19,710 --> 00:31:21,000 do it [crosstalk] for February [laughs]. -670 +641 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,000 Vic: No, thanks. -671 +642 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:29,549 -Bekah: Yeah. That -- the point +Bekah: Yeah. That-- the point Dan was making before about -672 +643 00:31:29,549 --> 00:31:35,098 -using things -- there's- there's +using things-- there's- there's a tendency to devalue -673 +644 00:31:35,099 --> 00:31:41,400 tools that make projects easier if you could use something -674 +645 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,720 harder, like React, right? Or building a site from scratch -675 +646 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,339 rather than using a template. And I wish that more people were -676 +647 00:31:50,339 --> 00:31:56,130 talking about how you can do these things to spin up -677 +648 00:31:56,130 --> 00:31:58,890 projects like what you're doing, or saying, like, "Look, this is -678 +649 00:31:58,890 --> 00:32:03,000 just as valuable as a site that's done in React because -679 +650 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,174 who really cares if they are solving the same problem -680 +651 00:32:05,174 --> 00:32:06,868 [chuckles]?" -681 +652 00:32:07,380 --> 00:32:08,520 Vic: Exactly. Yeah, your -customer -- your user doesn't +customer-- your user doesn't -682 +653 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:09,660 know -683 +654 00:32:09,660 --> 00:32:13,410 what you did. I mean, they don't care what programming language -684 +655 00:32:13,410 --> 00:32:15,750 you're using, they don't care what CSS framework you're using, -685 +656 00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:18,630 they just care that you're making their life easier. You -686 +657 00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:20,084 -know, it does -- I don't think --- I don't believe that, like, - -687 -00:32:20,084 --> 00:32:21,538 -you +know, it does-- I don't think-- +I don't believe that, like, -688 -00:32:21,539 --> 00:32:25,140 -know, if you use something -easier, like, I don't know, +658 +00:32:20,084 --> 00:32:25,140 +you know, if you use something +easier, like-- I don't know. -689 +659 00:32:25,140 --> 00:32:28,289 -like, I mean, you- you know, +Like-- I mean, you- you know, you're playing- you're playing a -690 +660 00:32:28,289 --> 00:32:29,939 video game. I guess it's entirely only in your head as -691 -00:32:29,939 --> 00:32:31,589 -to, - -692 -00:32:31,589 --> 00:32:34,619 -you know, what mode you were +661 +00:32:29,939 --> 00:32:34,619 +to, you know, what mode you were playing it on. It really doesn't -693 -00:32:34,619 --> 00:32:36,629 +662 +00:32:34,619 --> 00:32:35,624 matter ultimately. I- I think- -I- I think, I like just thought +I- I think, I, like, just -694 -00:32:36,629 --> 00:32:38,639 -of +663 +00:32:35,624 --> 00:32:36,629 +thought -695 -00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,710 -something a little bit more +664 +00:32:36,629 --> 00:32:40,710 +of something a little bit more insightful for the sake of that, -696 +665 00:32:40,710 --> 00:32:42,494 but [chuckles] that's all I can think of right now. I mean, I -697 +666 00:32:42,494 --> 00:32:44,278 use lots of -698 +667 00:32:44,339 --> 00:32:47,369 low-code or no-code things all -over the place. It's -- and you +over the place. It's-- and you -699 -00:32:47,369 --> 00:32:49,049 +668 +00:32:47,369 --> 00:32:50,729 know, it's not even just for -starting, right? Sometimes -- - -700 -00:32:49,049 --> 00:32:50,729 -so, +starting, right? Sometimes-- so, -701 +669 00:32:50,730 --> 00:32:53,309 like that- that beer festival that I- that I talked about -702 +670 00:32:53,339 --> 00:32:56,400 earlier, you know? I don't remember what it used to be at -703 +671 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,859 the very beginning, but it's been running on Airtable for -704 +672 00:32:58,859 --> 00:33:00,959 -like, I don't know, like four or -five years now. It works just +like-- I don't know. Like, four +or five years now. It works just -705 -00:33:00,959 --> 00:33:03,059 -fine, - -706 -00:33:03,809 --> 00:33:04,000 -you know? +673 +00:33:00,959 --> 00:33:04,000 +fine, you know? -707 +674 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:04,000 Dan: Yeah. -708 +675 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,945 -Vic: I -- and I will never +Vic: I-- and I will never replace it. I'm not going to, -709 +676 00:33:07,945 --> 00:33:10,890 you know, spend a bunch of time -moving it over to Postgres +moving it over to PostgreS(QL) -710 +677 00:33:10,890 --> 00:33:12,900 or whatever. It- it works. -711 +678 00:33:13,349 --> 00:33:17,970 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. We- we ... in Virtual Co- one of -712 +679 00:33:17,970 --> 00:33:22,470 the Virtual Coffees last week, -or maybe Tuesday? We were -- +or maybe Tuesday? We were-- -713 +680 00:33:22,529 --> 00:33:25,169 somebody was asking about, like, if- if they were freelancing, -714 -00:33:25,169 --> 00:33:27,809 -and - -715 -00:33:27,809 --> 00:33:29,910 -somebody asked them to make a -site, you know, like, what- +681 +00:33:25,169 --> 00:33:29,910 +and somebody asked them to make +a site, you know, like, what- -716 +682 00:33:29,970 --> 00:33:35,160 what- what they should do, right? And ... and some of the -717 -00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,589 +683 +00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:36,374 answers at the beginning were, -"Oh, just write it in, you know, +"Oh, just write it in," you -718 +684 +00:33:36,374 --> 00:33:37,588 +know-- + +685 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,470 -I don't know, React or Gatsby or -something, or, you know, even +I don't know. "React or Gatsby +or something, or, you know, even -719 +686 00:33:40,529 --> 00:33:43,470 -11ty," and- and th-then we kind +11ty." And- and th-then we kind of were talking about it for a -720 +687 00:33:43,470 --> 00:33:46,349 while, and especially if somebody's paying you to do it, -721 +688 00:33:46,380 --> 00:33:48,180 they also probably don't care [chuckles] what technology it's -722 +689 00:33:48,180 --> 00:33:49,980 written in -723 +690 00:33:49,980 --> 00:33:52,080 or- or what you use. And if you are able to stand up a site, -724 -00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,180 -like, +691 +00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,000 +like, you have that-- like, +using Caard, for example, right, -725 -00:33:54,210 --> 00:33:55,920 -you have that -- like using -Caard, for example, right, for a +692 +00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,920 +for -726 +693 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,630 --- +a-- like, -727 +694 00:33:57,660 --> 00:34:00,599 -like Caard i-i-is a service that --- is basically a landing page +Caard i-i-is a service that-- is +basically a landing page -728 +695 00:34:00,599 --> 00:34:02,429 service, right? And you can add a form to it, I think, and -729 -00:34:02,429 --> 00:34:04,259 -maybe- - -730 -00:34:05,069 --> 00:34:05,730 -maybe something else, but -- +696 +00:34:02,429 --> 00:34:05,730 +maybe- maybe something else, +but-- -731 +697 00:34:05,730 --> 00:34:07,650 Vic: Yeah. So, I have an example -about this actually, +about this, actually, -732 +698 00:34:08,250 --> 00:34:10,724 -where -- so, when I started +where-- so, when I started Everyoak, it used to be just in -733 -00:34:10,724 --> 00:34:13,198 -the - -734 -00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:15,644 -Airtable form. Where -- so, it -was just -- it was a -- so, it +699 +00:34:10,724 --> 00:34:15,644 +the Airtable form. Where-- so, +it was just-- it was a-- so, it -735 +700 00:34:15,644 --> 00:34:18,089 was a React -736 +701 00:34:18,090 --> 00:34:20,940 -page -- it was a- it was a React +page-- it was a- it was a React form, but then it's submitted to -737 +702 00:34:20,940 --> 00:34:25,440 Airtable, and that was actually -it. Because it -- there was no +it. Because it-- there was no -738 +703 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,699 login or anything like that, you know? Parents would come, like, -739 +704 00:34:29,699 --> 00:34:32,909 fill out their application. And -then the rest of it kinda got +then, the rest of it kinda got -740 +705 00:34:32,909 --> 00:34:37,110 -built around that. And like -- -it ran that way for two years, +built around that. And like-- it +ran that way for two years, -741 +706 00:34:37,110 --> 00:34:39,960 where all it did was submit to an Airtable. Like, I didn't move -742 +707 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,559 -it over to like MySQL or +it over to, like, MySQL or anything like that for a good -743 +708 00:34:43,559 --> 00:34:47,309 solid two years, and it worked -just fine, you know. The +just fine, you know? The -744 +709 00:34:47,309 --> 00:34:51,420 parents don't care. It still makes their lives easier. And -745 +710 00:34:51,449 --> 00:34:52,679 -then the reason why I moved it +then, the reason why I moved it was ultimately because -746 +711 00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:53,909 [chuckles] I -747 +712 00:34:53,909 --> 00:34:56,820 -exceeded Airtable's like free +exceeded Airtable's, like, free limits. Not because I thought -748 +713 00:34:56,820 --> 00:34:58,695 -like, "Oh, I'm -- like, I'm -doing something that -- you +like, "Oh, I'm-- like, I'm doing +something that-- you -749 +714 00:34:58,695 --> 00:35:00,570 -know, like -- +know, like-- -750 +715 00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:01,994 you know, really good programmers don't do," or -751 +716 00:35:01,994 --> 00:35:03,389 anything -752 +717 00:35:03,389 --> 00:35:04,979 like that, you know? I- I moved -it because you -- I just didn't +it because you-- I just didn't -753 +718 00:35:04,979 --> 00:35:06,569 want to -754 +719 00:35:06,570 --> 00:35:10,000 pay money for- for what I was doing. That's fine with it. -755 +720 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:10,000 Dan: Yeah. -756 +721 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,814 Vic: And I don't think people should be like, "Oh, if I use -757 +722 00:35:13,814 --> 00:35:15,868 a-", you know, "-low-code -758 +723 00:35:15,869 --> 00:35:18,960 or no-code tool, I'm not a good programmer," or something like -759 +724 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,059 -that. That's -- if- if, you -know, if someone is telling you - -760 -00:35:21,059 --> 00:35:23,158 -that, they +that. That's-- if- if, you know, +if someone is telling you -761 -00:35:23,309 --> 00:35:24,300 -don't know what they're talking -about. +725 +00:35:21,059 --> 00:35:24,300 +that, they don't know what +they're talking about. -762 +726 00:35:24,690 --> 00:35:30,869 -Dan: Yeah. I -- I mean, I agree. +Dan: Yeah. I- I mean, I agree. And the framing of- of- of how a -763 +727 00:35:30,869 --> 00:35:33,569 person values themselves and their abilities, I feel like ... -764 -00:35:33,569 --> 00:35:36,269 -is - -765 -00:35:36,329 --> 00:35:38,909 -either starting to shift, or- or -maybe I'm just like finding +728 +00:35:33,569 --> 00:35:38,909 +is either starting to shift, or- +or maybe I'm just, like, finding -766 +729 00:35:38,909 --> 00:35:43,019 better vocabular- you know, -vocabulary about it. But, that +vocabulary about it. But that, -767 -00:35:43,019 --> 00:35:46,800 -like, if a client, for instance --- I mean, I- I- I'm independent +730 +00:35:43,019 --> 00:35:44,909 +like, if a client, for +instance-- I mean, I- I- I'm -768 +731 +00:35:44,909 --> 00:35:46,799 +independent + +732 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,280 developer. So, clients are the way I think about a lot of this -769 +733 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,829 stuff, right? But if a client is -paying, like is- is paying you, +paying, like, is- is paying you, -770 +734 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,079 they're not paying you for code or, you know, React or- or -771 +735 00:35:55,079 --> 00:35:57,238 whatever, -772 +736 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:58,934 right? They're paying you to get the thing that they want -773 +737 00:35:58,934 --> 00:36:00,629 [chuckles], right? -774 +738 00:36:00,630 --> 00:36:03,989 They're paying you to have the daycare, like, management -775 +739 00:36:03,989 --> 00:36:09,480 software done. Not to do it in the most, you know, detailed way -776 +740 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,240 that some other judgy person will judge you for [chuckles], -777 +741 00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:13,000 right? They- they don't care. -778 +742 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:13,000 Vic: [Chuckles] Exactly. -779 -00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:18,000 -Dan: And- and so -- you know, my -point is just like, to - -780 -00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,664 -provide value is the thing- is -the thing that you're working +743 +00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:18,500 +Dan: And- and so-- you know, my +point is just, like, to provide -781 -00:36:19,664 --> 00:36:21,328 -on. +744 +00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:21,328 +value is the thing- is the thing +that you're working on. -782 +745 00:36:21,329 --> 00:36:25,619 Not- not that you're working on -becoming like a React expert, +becoming, like, a React expert, -783 +746 00:36:25,619 --> 00:36:26,969 or- or whatever, you know? -784 +747 00:36:27,179 --> 00:36:29,190 Vic: Right. And- and, you know, it depends, of course, -785 +748 00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:31,589 whether you are doing this in a -job or -- but actually, even at - -786 -00:36:31,589 --> 00:36:33,988 -my +job or-- but actually, even at -787 -00:36:34,170 --> 00:36:36,495 -day job, we actually use a lot -of Zapier and- and Airtable. +749 +00:36:31,589 --> 00:36:36,495 +my day job, we actually use a +lot of Zapier and- and Airtable. -788 +750 00:36:36,495 --> 00:36:38,820 -Like +Like, -789 +751 00:36:38,820 --> 00:36:40,215 -we had -- we're on the -enterprise levels of both Zapier +we had-- we're on the enterprise +levels of both Zapier -790 +752 00:36:40,215 --> 00:36:41,610 and Airtable, -791 +753 00:36:41,610 --> 00:36:46,110 -because like, you gotta +because, like, you gotta maximize, you know, your value. -792 +754 00:36:47,039 --> 00:36:48,719 And we don't want to be building -all these -- so, this is just +all these-- so, this is just -793 +755 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,399 going -794 +756 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,190 -to come off as like product +to come off as, like, product placement for Zapier or Neotel -795 +757 00:36:53,190 --> 00:36:55,650 but, [laughs] you know, there's- there's so much stuff that we -796 +758 00:36:55,650 --> 00:36:58,110 -just don't want to -- all this +just don't want to-- all this -797 +759 00:36:58,110 --> 00:37:00,000 duct tape we just don't need to do. -798 +760 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:00,000 Dan: Yeah. -799 +761 00:37:01,980 --> 00:37:04,259 -Vic: Cuz it like, it's cheaper +Vic: Cuz it, like-- it's cheaper to pay for- for those tools on a -800 +762 00:37:04,259 --> 00:37:06,538 monthly basis than it -801 +763 00:37:06,539 --> 00:37:09,300 is to spent any amount of time, -like building all the plumbing. +like, building all the plumbing. -802 +764 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:09,000 Dan: Yep. -803 +765 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,384 Vic: That- that's [laughs] all I'll say about that. So, this -804 -00:37:11,384 --> 00:37:12,928 +766 +00:37:11,384 --> 00:37:14,940 [chuckles] doesn't become a +huge, like, endorsement or any-- -805 -00:37:12,929 --> 00:37:14,940 -huge, like, endorsement or any --- - -806 +767 00:37:14,969 --> 00:37:16,920 Dan: No, it's true though. And cheaper. Like, if you build -807 +768 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,735 for the hour, or if your -employee or whatever, like your +employee or whatever, like, -808 +769 00:37:18,735 --> 00:37:20,550 --- anybody's +your-- anybody's -809 +770 00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:22,289 time is worth money and somebody's paying for it -810 +771 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:23,985 eventually [chuckles], right? So, anytime you can save -811 +772 00:37:23,985 --> 00:37:25,650 yourself time in, -812 +773 00:37:25,710 --> 00:37:27,795 -you know, a productive way it -- -that it's like easy to -- it's +you know, a productive way it-- +that it's, like, easy to-- it's -813 +774 00:37:27,795 --> 00:37:29,880 an easy -814 +775 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,390 win [laughs]. It's an easy -decision. I- I love it. I -- +decision. I- I love it. I-- -815 +776 00:37:33,390 --> 00:37:36,900 -Zapier for it like -- I have +Zapier for it, like-- I have -816 +777 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,535 just started scratching the surface of Zapier for over the -817 +778 00:37:38,535 --> 00:37:40,110 last -818 +779 00:37:40,110 --> 00:37:43,860 couple months. I think based on your recommendation. But it's -819 +780 00:37:43,860 --> 00:37:45,840 -just been, I don't know, it's +just been-- I don't know. It's been a revelation. -820 +781 00:37:46,289 --> 00:37:49,050 Vic: I kind of use it all over the place. I have -821 -00:37:49,050 --> 00:37:52,739 -some zaps that just told me like --- okay. So, this is a pre-2020 +782 +00:37:49,050 --> 00:37:50,894 +some zaps that just told me, +like-- okay. So, this is a -822 +783 +00:37:50,894 --> 00:37:52,738 +pre-2020 + +784 00:37:52,739 --> 00:37:54,494 story. But I have some zaps -that's -- that just tells me +that's-- that just tells me, -823 +785 00:37:54,494 --> 00:37:56,249 -like -- +like-- -824 +786 00:37:56,250 --> 00:37:59,340 -it monitors there is like races -that I used to run — like +it monitors there is, like, +races that I used to run—like -825 +787 00:37:59,369 --> 00:38:01,214 -road races — and it just tells -me when like, registration opens - -826 -00:38:01,214 --> 00:38:03,059 -up +road races—and it just tells me +when, like, registration opens -827 -00:38:03,059 --> 00:38:04,304 -for those races, so, I could +788 +00:38:01,214 --> 00:38:04,304 +up for those races, so, I could [chuckles] go register and get -828 -00:38:04,304 --> 00:38:05,549 -bid number - -829 -00:38:05,550 --> 00:38:07,560 -one [crosstalk]. So, I just have -like a bunch of +789 +00:38:04,304 --> 00:38:07,560 +bid number one [crosstalk]. So, +I just have, like, a bunch of -830 +790 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,570 random automations like that. -831 +791 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:07,000 Dan: [Chuckles] That's awesome. -832 +792 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,789 Bekah: Can you, or one of you, explain what -833 +793 00:38:14,789 --> 00:38:15,630 Zapier is? -834 +794 00:38:16,199 --> 00:38:19,634 Vic: Sure. It's plumbing [chuckles]. So, okay. So, let's -835 +795 00:38:19,634 --> 00:38:23,069 see. -836 +796 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,630 What's the best way to describe Zapier? So ... let's see. So, I -837 +797 00:38:27,630 --> 00:38:29,880 -have a -- it- it- it ties +have a-- it- it- it ties together various services. It -838 +798 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,130 takes events from -839 +799 00:38:32,130 --> 00:38:35,250 -one service and kind of like, +one service and kind of like pipes them into another. So, as -840 +800 00:38:35,250 --> 00:38:37,680 an example, let's say that I have ... okay. This is a real -841 +801 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,110 one. -842 +802 00:38:40,409 --> 00:38:44,579 So, anytime an event starts on my calendar, I have Zapier watch -843 +803 00:38:44,579 --> 00:38:47,670 for that. And three minutes before that event starts, it -844 +804 00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:49,890 marks me as "Do Not Disturb". -And like -- and then, three +And, like-- and then, three -845 +805 00:38:49,890 --> 00:38:52,110 minutes -846 +806 00:38:52,110 --> 00:38:56,010 -after the event ends, it like, +after the event ends, it, like, changes my status back on Slack -847 +807 00:38:56,070 --> 00:38:58,364 to, you know, to clear. I have some, like, a lot more -848 +808 00:38:58,364 --> 00:39:00,658 complicated -849 +809 00:39:00,659 --> 00:39:03,074 -ones, where -- like, I have, you +ones, where-- like, I have, you know, I- I run a little script -850 -00:39:03,074 --> 00:39:05,489 -that - -851 -00:39:05,489 --> 00:39:10,199 -watches the- the- the race -website, and it looks for like a +810 +00:39:03,074 --> 00:39:10,199 +that watches the- the- the race +website, and it looks for, like, -852 +811 00:39:10,199 --> 00:39:12,299 -specific word on that website, +a specific word on that website, and if that word was found, it -853 +812 00:39:12,299 --> 00:39:14,399 sends me -854 +813 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,469 a message on Slack, and sends me a text message, and it lets me -855 +814 00:39:16,469 --> 00:39:18,538 know -856 +815 00:39:18,539 --> 00:39:19,889 that I should go register. But -you can like, have this -- you +you can, like, have this-- you -857 +816 00:39:19,889 --> 00:39:21,239 can -858 +817 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,139 -have it like send emails, or I +have it, like, send emails, or I can have it say that, "Anytime -859 +818 00:39:25,139 --> 00:39:26,474 someone fills out this form and a new record appears in an -860 +819 00:39:26,474 --> 00:39:27,809 Airtable, -861 +820 00:39:27,809 --> 00:39:31,650 -I want you to do like these 15 +I want you to do, like, these 15 other things." Like, maybe -862 +821 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,079 fill out an invoice, or send out -an email, or like, you could - -863 -00:39:34,079 --> 00:39:36,238 -have +an email, or, like, you could -864 -00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:37,000 -a do a bunch of different +822 +00:39:34,079 --> 00:39:37,000 +have a-- do a bunch of different things. -865 +823 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:37,000 Dan: Mm-hmm. -866 +824 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,954 Vic: And it can be many, many -steps. It can run like every +steps. It can run, like, every -867 +825 00:39:39,954 --> 00:39:41,908 five minutes or something like that. -868 +826 00:39:42,539 --> 00:39:45,750 Bekah: So, it is a time saving superpower? -869 +827 00:39:46,949 --> 00:39:48,869 Vic: It is 100% a time saving superpower. -870 +828 00:39:48,869 --> 00:39:50,849 -Dan: Yeah. A-and, the -- for me, -I found that once I've started +Dan: Yeah. A-and, the-- for me, +I found that once I've started, -871 +829 00:39:50,849 --> 00:39:52,829 -like +like, -872 +830 00:39:52,829 --> 00:39:55,004 -using it, because I read about -it and been like, "That sounds +using it because I read about it +and been like, "That sounds -873 +831 00:39:55,004 --> 00:39:57,179 cool," -874 +832 00:39:57,179 --> 00:39:58,289 but, you know, not really dug into it. But once you start -875 +833 00:39:58,289 --> 00:39:59,399 using it, -876 +834 00:39:59,670 --> 00:40:03,510 the ways that you can use it, like, it changes how your brain -877 +835 00:40:03,510 --> 00:40:05,114 thinks about everything -[laughs]. It's really -- it's- +[laughs]. It's really-- it's- -878 +836 00:40:05,114 --> 00:40:06,718 it's- it's pretty crazy to -879 +837 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:11,219 -think about. The -- what we're +think about. The-- what we're using on Virtual Coffee- Virtual -880 +838 00:40:11,219 --> 00:40:12,974 Coffee's site, we have some random forms that collect -881 +839 00:40:12,974 --> 00:40:14,729 information -882 +840 00:40:14,730 --> 00:40:18,389 in various places, for example. And those forms are submitted on -883 +841 00:40:18,389 --> 00:40:23,699 -Netlify, and so, now Zapier is +Netlify and so, now, Zapier is getting notified when that -884 +842 00:40:23,699 --> 00:40:27,239 happens, right? So, the form goes to Zapier, and then, for -885 -00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:28,994 +843 +00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,749 instance, we are saving the -record in a -- right now in a- - -886 -00:40:28,994 --> 00:40:30,749 -in +record in a-- right now in a- in -887 +844 00:40:30,750 --> 00:40:34,860 a Google sheets row. And also, submitting an issue on GitHub -888 +845 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:36,825 -for it, or whatever to. The -- +for it, or whatever to. The-- like, that's just one way that -889 +846 00:40:36,825 --> 00:40:38,730 we're- -890 +847 00:40:38,730 --> 00:40:41,130 -we're using those -- we're using +we're using those-- we're using Zapier right now. It's ... I -891 +848 00:40:41,130 --> 00:40:43,530 don't -892 +849 00:40:43,530 --> 00:40:49,139 know. It's very cool. Could you tell us about Airtable as well? -893 +850 00:40:49,139 --> 00:40:49,139 Vic: Sure. -894 +851 00:40:49,469 --> 00:40:50,039 Dan: You- you talked about it a lot. -895 +852 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,789 -Vic: Airtable is just -- I mean, +Vic: Airtable is just-- I mean, it's- it's very much -896 +853 00:40:52,789 --> 00:40:56,059 like Google sheets or any other spreadsheet. You know, there are -897 +854 00:40:56,059 --> 00:40:58,279 -rows, and you can group them, -and sort them. But once again, +rows, and you can group them and +sort them. But once again, -898 -00:40:58,279 --> 00:41:00,499 -it +855 +00:40:58,279 --> 00:41:01,609 +it allows you to, like, do +things based on row's changing. -899 -00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:04,940 -allows you to like do things -based on row's changing. And it +856 +00:41:01,609 --> 00:41:04,939 +And it -900 +857 00:41:04,940 --> 00:41:08,659 has a really, really nice API. So, I, you know, I've used- I've -901 +858 00:41:08,659 --> 00:41:13,280 -used it as kind of like a back +used it as kind of, like, a back end for a lot of stuff. There's -902 +859 00:41:13,340 --> 00:41:15,170 a- a site that I built recently, like, to allow parents to buy -903 +860 00:41:15,170 --> 00:41:17,000 t-shirts -904 +861 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,900 for their kids, and then pay the invoices, and then I was -905 +862 00:41:20,900 --> 00:41:23,059 using the Airtable for that. Yeah, there's [laughs] not -906 +863 00:41:23,059 --> 00:41:25,218 really much of -907 +864 00:41:25,519 --> 00:41:26,989 dark [??] wise. It's very simple. A lot of people use it. -908 +865 00:41:26,989 --> 00:41:28,459 I think they're -909 +866 00:41:28,460 --> 00:41:30,650 -like a -- they're one of those +like a-- they're one of those, like, big billion dollar -910 +867 00:41:30,650 --> 00:41:31,280 companies. -911 +868 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:33,810 Dan: So, if you were building a service where you had to -912 +869 00:41:33,810 --> 00:41:35,340 st-st-store -913 +870 00:41:35,340 --> 00:41:36,330 content, basically, in- in any way, at the beginning -914 -00:41:36,330 --> 00:41:37,320 -[crosstalk] - -915 -00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,300 -that's- that's -- it's ... the -first thing you +871 +00:41:36,330 --> 00:41:39,300 +[crosstalk] that's- that's-- +it's ... the first thing you -916 +872 00:41:39,300 --> 00:41:41,280 reach for? Yeah. -917 +873 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,000 Vic: Yeah. And then Access, it doesn't need an API [??], right? -918 +874 00:41:43,860 --> 00:41:46,320 Bekah: Cool. Can we jump back to indie hacking for a second? Cuz- -919 +875 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:47,000 Vic: [Whispers] Yes! -920 +876 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,840 Bekah: -I wanna talk a little bit about what the community is -921 +877 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:57,000 -like, and the kind of how you +like and the-- kind of how you found a place in that community? -922 +878 00:41:58,139 --> 00:42:01,650 Vic: Sure. So, I guess it probably starts when I, -923 +879 00:42:01,650 --> 00:42:04,590 like, started to follow various people on Twitter. And I -924 +880 00:42:04,590 --> 00:42:07,920 realized that, "Oh, there is a -name for this thing." And like, +name for this thing." And, like, -925 +881 00:42:08,010 --> 00:42:09,524 -"Oh," it's like, "I shouldn't -just like, hide the things that +"Oh," it's, like, "I shouldn't +just, like, hide the things that -926 +882 00:42:09,524 --> 00:42:11,038 I do." -927 +883 00:42:11,039 --> 00:42:13,800 Like, it's actually good to, you know, like, share it in public, -928 +884 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,195 right? Then I found indiehackers.com, which is -929 +885 00:42:15,195 --> 00:42:16,590 probably -930 +886 00:42:16,590 --> 00:42:17,775 -one of the largest of these -- +one of the largest of these-- and I'm in a few other -931 +887 00:42:17,775 --> 00:42:18,960 communities -932 +888 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:25,019 -like that. They're all like +like that. They're all, like, Slack communities. Let's see ... -933 +889 00:42:26,519 --> 00:42:28,289 wait. [Laughs] What was the rest of your question? -934 -00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:30,869 -Bekah: It -- just kinda like, -how you found your +890 +00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:31,200 +Bekah: It-- just kinda like, how +you found your place -935 -00:42:30,869 --> 00:42:33,690 -place in the community, or like, -what the community is like? +891 +00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,690 +in the community, or, like, what +the community is like? -936 +892 00:42:35,219 --> 00:42:37,949 -Vic: It's -- I find it to be, +Vic: It's-- I find it to be, like, very welcoming -937 +893 00:42:37,949 --> 00:42:40,079 -honestly. It's -- there- there +honestly. It's-- there- there are, of course, a lot of very, -938 -00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:42,209 -very - -939 -00:42:42,210 --> 00:42:46,110 -successful people in these +894 +00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:46,110 +very successful people in these communities. And you gotta- you -940 +895 00:42:46,110 --> 00:42:48,630 gotta make sure that you follow people that are, you know, -941 +896 00:42:48,630 --> 00:42:52,769 -slightly out of yours, slightly +slightly out of yours-- slightly below you, as opposed to just -942 -00:42:52,769 --> 00:42:56,400 -the people that are like wildly -su-successful, because then you +897 +00:42:52,769 --> 00:42:54,584 +the people that are, like, +wildly su-successful, because -943 +898 +00:42:54,584 --> 00:42:56,399 +then, you + +899 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,150 kinda experience this like survivorship bias when you -944 +900 00:43:00,150 --> 00:43:02,190 follow people that are just, you know, making, you know, tons of -945 +901 00:43:02,190 --> 00:43:04,230 money or -946 +902 00:43:04,650 --> 00:43:06,719 have very, very successful products, and you don't really -947 +903 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:08,204 learn anything from them, because ... I don't know. -948 +904 00:43:08,204 --> 00:43:09,689 They've- -949 +905 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,044 they've kind of, you know, -they're -- they- they paint a +they're-- they- they paint a -950 +906 00:43:12,044 --> 00:43:14,369 much -951 -00:43:14,369 --> 00:43:17,969 +907 +00:43:14,369 --> 00:43:16,169 rosier picture of their success -than- than perhaps what is like +than- than perhaps what is, -952 +908 +00:43:16,169 --> 00:43:17,969 +like, + +909 00:43:17,969 --> 00:43:20,519 real [chuckles]. So, I find that it's important to follow people -953 +910 00:43:20,519 --> 00:43:23,069 in -954 +911 00:43:23,070 --> 00:43:24,630 -these communities -- like- like +these communities-- like- like Twitter is probably, honestly, -955 +912 00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:26,190 the best -956 +913 00:43:26,190 --> 00:43:30,090 place for this. You know, find -someone that has like, under +someone that has, like, under -957 -00:43:30,090 --> 00:43:33,329 +914 +00:43:30,090 --> 00:43:31,709 1000 followers, under 2000 -followers, and is like day- you +followers, and is, like, day- -958 +915 +00:43:31,709 --> 00:43:33,328 +you + +916 00:43:33,329 --> 00:43:36,000 know, posting daily about their, you know, what it is they're -959 +917 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:41,250 -building, and a lot of them +building. And a lot of them share their learnings, like, -960 +918 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:45,690 successes and failures, and you learn so much about it. And- and -961 +919 00:43:45,690 --> 00:43:49,139 I get so much value from reading about people's failures. And -962 +920 00:43:49,139 --> 00:43:52,949 knowing, you know- you know, I should not do that. And -963 +921 00:43:52,949 --> 00:43:57,389 similarly, when I find people that are maybe, like, still just -964 +922 00:43:57,389 --> 00:44:00,150 starting with it, and I'm able -to share like, my successes and +to share, like, my successes and -965 +923 00:44:00,150 --> 00:44:03,869 failures with them, I really enjoy doing that. So, I'm in the -966 +924 00:44:03,869 --> 00:44:06,599 Slack community called MicroB2C, where it's a bunch of -967 +925 00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:10,484 people that build micro business to consumer products. So ... -968 +926 00:44:10,484 --> 00:44:14,369 let's -969 +927 00:44:14,369 --> 00:44:16,619 -see. So, they like -- you know, +see. So, they, like, you know, Lunch Money as an example there, -970 +928 00:44:16,619 --> 00:44:21,179 like, GG app is another example. There's lots of -971 -00:44:21,179 --> 00:44:23,444 +929 +00:44:21,179 --> 00:44:26,070 different ones there. And it's -just- it's just great to, like - -972 -00:44:23,444 --> 00:44:25,709 --- +just- it's just great to, like-- -973 +930 00:44:26,070 --> 00:44:28,800 it's great to be able to post questions to them, for example, -974 +931 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,800 like, "Oh, the Apple store has changed some policy," like, you -975 +932 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,225 know, and they say, "Oh, you need to write your terms of -976 +933 00:44:33,225 --> 00:44:34,650 service -977 +934 00:44:34,650 --> 00:44:36,315 -to be like this." And you know, +to be like this." And, you know, it saves you from [chuckles] -978 +935 00:44:36,315 --> 00:44:37,980 going through -979 +936 00:44:37,980 --> 00:44:41,849 the hassle of discovering all -this stuff on your own. It's -- +this stuff on your own. It's-- -980 +937 00:44:41,940 --> 00:44:45,030 they- they're good places. There also some paid communities. I'm -981 +938 00:44:45,030 --> 00:44:48,780 not really a part of any of the- the paid indie communities. -982 +939 00:44:49,289 --> 00:44:52,260 Bekah: Yeah, I love this idea of learning -983 +940 00:44:52,260 --> 00:44:54,989 -through failures because -- I +through failures because-- I don't know. We grow so much, but -984 +941 00:44:54,989 --> 00:44:57,718 also, it -985 +942 00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:01,439 helps with our time saving superpowers [chuckles], right? -986 +943 00:45:01,439 --> 00:45:05,159 -Like you [chuckles] get +Like, you [chuckles] get -987 +944 00:45:05,159 --> 00:45:07,439 -to -- I don't know -- you get -this knowledge and understanding +to-- I don't know-- you get this +knowledge and understanding -988 +945 00:45:07,439 --> 00:45:09,719 that -989 +946 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:14,280 you might not get in any other place, right? And so, some of my -990 +947 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:19,019 favorite conversations recently have been from people who have -991 +948 00:45:19,019 --> 00:45:21,510 been there before and can share those. That's one of my first -992 +949 00:45:21,510 --> 00:45:24,239 -questions like, "Okay, can you +questions, like, "Okay, can you talk about, like, your failure -993 +950 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,869 and- and failures in what you've learned?" Because then, -994 +951 00:45:28,019 --> 00:45:31,409 you know, like, I'm a step ahead of where I was before. And I -995 +952 00:45:31,409 --> 00:45:34,530 don't have to go through that, like, really painful process. -996 +953 00:45:34,980 --> 00:45:39,480 Vic: Exactly, right? So, I- I- I love those people who -997 +954 00:45:39,510 --> 00:45:43,230 share immediately, like, very forthcoming with you about what -998 +955 00:45:43,230 --> 00:45:44,745 they failed it. That- that's -just like such good +just, like, such good -999 +956 00:45:44,745 --> 00:45:46,260 vulnerability, -1000 +957 00:45:46,500 --> 00:45:49,050 and they don't want you to go -through like, the stuff that +through, like, the stuff that -1001 +958 00:45:49,050 --> 00:45:50,834 they've gone through. And I'm not a fan of [chuckles] the -1002 +959 00:45:50,834 --> 00:45:52,618 people that are -1003 +960 00:45:52,619 --> 00:45:54,959 like, "Oh, you'll find out." No, I don't want to [laughs]. I want -1004 +961 00:45:54,959 --> 00:45:57,299 you to -1005 +962 00:45:57,300 --> 00:46:01,739 -tell me. I want, like -- and so, +tell me. I want, like-- and so, I bias a little bit toward the -1006 +963 00:46:01,739 --> 00:46:03,150 oversharing and failures. -1007 +964 00:46:04,650 --> 00:46:09,000 Dan: One- one of the- one of the things that you said, sort of in -1008 +965 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,869 the same realm of- of following -people that are on your -- +people that are on your-- -1009 +966 00:46:12,900 --> 00:46:15,255 basically, on your level of- of -learning in- indie hacking, I've +learning in- indie hacking, -1010 +967 00:46:15,255 --> 00:46:17,610 --- I think +I've-- I think -1011 +968 00:46:17,610 --> 00:46:18,690 is really good advice for- for -anything, for anything -- +anything, for anything-- -1012 +969 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,480 Vic: I mean, that's not to say you shouldn't follow wildly -1013 +970 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:22,000 successful people, right? -1014 +971 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:22,000 Dan: Right. Right. -1015 +972 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,500 Vic: You just have to take their learnings with a mountain of -1016 +973 00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:27,000 salt. -1017 +974 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:27,000 Dan: Yes. -1018 +975 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,309 -Vic: And- and like, I don't -know, maybe aspire for their +Vic: And- and, like, I don't +know-- maybe aspire for their -1019 +976 00:46:29,309 --> 00:46:31,618 success, but not necessarily their -1020 +977 00:46:31,619 --> 00:46:33,780 journey cuz everyone's journey is completely different. -1021 +978 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,614 Dan: Oh, absolutely. I- I was- I -was going to say, it -- I feel +was going to say, it-- I feel -1022 +979 00:46:36,614 --> 00:46:39,388 like -1023 +980 00:46:39,389 --> 00:46:41,129 it's very good advice. Just ... I don't know. Learning anything -1024 +981 00:46:41,129 --> 00:46:42,869 really, -1025 +982 00:46:43,110 --> 00:46:44,564 or ... not just indie hacking, right? I mean, I- I would give -1026 -00:46:44,564 --> 00:46:46,018 -the - -1027 -00:46:46,019 --> 00:46:47,594 -same advice to developers. I +983 +00:46:44,564 --> 00:46:47,594 +the same advice to developers. I don't think I- I had framed it -1028 +984 00:46:47,594 --> 00:46:49,169 that -1029 +985 00:46:49,170 --> 00:46:50,999 -quite the way you did. It -- but +quite the way you did. It-- but it made me- it made me think -1030 -00:46:50,999 --> 00:46:52,828 -that I - -1031 -00:46:52,829 --> 00:46:54,479 -should start framing it +986 +00:46:50,999 --> 00:46:54,479 +that I should start framing it [chuckles] that way, right? Cuz -1032 +987 00:46:54,479 --> 00:46:56,129 when people- -1033 +988 00:46:56,610 --> 00:46:59,010 when people are in a different phase, their perspective is -1034 +989 00:46:59,010 --> 00:47:01,949 different even, you know? So, if somebody is- i-is not just that -1035 +990 00:47:01,949 --> 00:47:04,440 they have forgotten about the failures along the way, and they -1036 -00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:05,640 +991 +00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,840 happen to have a successful -product, you know, but they're +product, you know, but they're-- -1037 -00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:06,840 --- - -1038 +992 00:47:06,869 --> 00:47:08,730 the things they're thinking about are different if they're -1039 +993 00:47:08,969 --> 00:47:12,809 managing a successful product, versus trying to learn how to, -1040 +994 00:47:12,869 --> 00:47:14,789 you know, trying to- trying to learn at the beginning. It's -1041 +995 00:47:14,789 --> 00:47:16,709 just something -1042 +996 00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:18,420 I've been wo-working on a-a-a lot with Virtual Coffee, you -1043 +997 00:47:18,420 --> 00:47:20,130 know? A-and -1044 +998 00:47:20,159 --> 00:47:22,634 one of the things I've enjoyed the most is ... becoming close -1045 +999 00:47:22,634 --> 00:47:25,109 with -1046 +1000 00:47:25,110 --> 00:47:28,769 people, you know, at different- at different phases of- of the -1047 +1001 00:47:28,980 --> 00:47:31,739 developer journey, their career journey, like, you know, -1048 +1002 00:47:31,739 --> 00:47:33,674 -everything. And -- I don't know. +everything. And-- I don't know. I- I just think it's such good -1049 +1003 00:47:33,674 --> 00:47:35,609 -advice, you know. +advice, you know? -1050 +1004 00:47:35,639 --> 00:47:36,884 -I-it's -- don't -- just don't +I-it's-- don't-- just don't always pay attention to the -1051 +1005 00:47:36,884 --> 00:47:38,129 people with the -1052 +1006 00:47:38,130 --> 00:47:40,619 million followers, you know, in- in whatever. -1053 +1007 00:47:40,690 --> 00:47:42,460 Vic: Yeah. I mean, they probably have valuable things to -1054 +1008 00:47:42,460 --> 00:47:46,300 say. It's just that not all of it is going to work out for you. -1055 +1009 00:47:46,329 --> 00:47:49,780 -But the person that is like, +But the person that is, like, closest to you has a actionable -1056 +1010 00:47:49,780 --> 00:47:53,320 advice right now that, you know, that is applicable and timely. -1057 +1011 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:54,190 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. -1058 +1012 00:47:54,628 --> 00:47:56,309 Bekah: Yeah, for sure. We talked about that in my -1059 +1013 00:47:56,309 --> 00:48:01,469 breakout room today in Virtual -Coffee, this idea of processes +Coffee—this idea of processes -1060 +1014 00:48:01,469 --> 00:48:03,659 -and growth and how -- so many +and growth—and how-- so many times you might have a blind -1061 +1015 00:48:03,659 --> 00:48:05,849 spot, -1062 +1016 00:48:05,849 --> 00:48:07,544 -especially like, you know, if- +especially, like, you know, if- if you haven't been there -1063 +1017 00:48:07,544 --> 00:48:09,239 recently. -1064 +1018 00:48:09,568 --> 00:48:13,168 And so, you know, being able to fill in those blind spots are -1065 +1019 00:48:13,168 --> 00:48:17,369 probably the person who is closer to the problem or your -1066 +1020 00:48:17,369 --> 00:48:22,259 stage in the journey. And ... that's incredibly valuable. -1067 +1021 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:24,329 Vic: Totally agree. -1068 +1022 00:48:25,590 --> 00:48:28,590 Dan: I mean, I could talk about this, the low-code, the services -1069 +1023 00:48:28,590 --> 00:48:31,170 -stuff for hours. I -- it's -- -this is just one of those- +stuff for hours. I-- it's-- this +is just one of those- -1070 +1024 00:48:31,199 --> 00:48:32,039 Vic: What services? -1071 +1025 00:48:32,099 --> 00:48:33,000 Dan: The- the low-code services. A-airtable- -1072 +1026 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:34,000 Vic: Oh, yeah. -1073 -00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,406 -Dan: -and Zapier, and just like -the way different ways to hack +1027 +00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:35,703 +Dan: -and Zapier, and just, +like, the way different ways to -1074 +1028 +00:48:35,703 --> 00:48:37,406 +hack-- + +1029 00:48:37,406 --> 00:48:40,812 --- like, hook all this stuff +like, hook all this stuff together. Are there any other -1075 +1030 00:48:40,812 --> 00:48:44,218 notable low-code -1076 -00:48:39,659 --> 00:48:44,324 +1031 +00:48:39,659 --> 00:48:48,800 services that you like to use -besides we have mentioned so far - -1077 -00:48:44,324 --> 00:48:48,989 -— +besides we have mentioned so -1078 -00:48:44,219 --> 00:48:51,630 -Caard and Airtable and Zapier? -Are there any any other +1032 +00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,630 +far—Caard, and Airtable, and +Zapier? Are there any- any other -1079 +1033 00:48:49,409 --> 00:48:52,739 interesting or cool ones that you like- like to use? -1080 +1034 00:48:53,369 --> 00:48:55,409 Vic: I think I probably use those more than -1081 +1035 00:48:55,650 --> 00:48:59,880 anything else. Trying to think. -But -- I mean ... let's see. No, +But-- I mean ... let's see. No, -1082 +1036 00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:04,110 -I think the -- I +I think the-- I -1083 +1037 00:49:04,110 --> 00:49:07,739 -think those form a bulk of my, -like -- I think I can build +think those form a bulk of my-- +like, I think I can build -1084 +1038 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:12,659 -anything with like, just those +anything with, like, just those three things. I mean, plus, you -1085 -00:49:12,659 --> 00:49:15,329 +1039 +00:49:12,659 --> 00:49:13,994 know, I- I don't just use that, -there- there are people that use +there- there are people that -1086 +1040 +00:49:13,994 --> 00:49:15,329 +use, + +1041 00:49:15,329 --> 00:49:17,579 like, you know, something like, I think it's called Bubble or -1087 -00:49:18,030 --> 00:49:20,909 -any of those other like, things -that let you like, build a whole +1042 +00:49:18,030 --> 00:49:19,469 +any of those other, like, things +that let you, like, build a -1088 +1043 +00:49:19,469 --> 00:49:20,908 +whole + +1044 00:49:20,909 --> 00:49:24,420 -app with just like, you know, in -no-code local stuff, but I +app with just, like, you know, +in no-code local stuff, but I -1089 +1045 00:49:24,420 --> 00:49:26,160 actually have them as part of my -React app. So, although like, +React app. So, although, like, -1090 -00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:27,900 -you - -1091 -00:49:27,900 --> 00:49:29,640 -know, a NextJS page that just -happens to use, you know, +1046 +00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,640 +you know, a NextJS page that +just happens to use, you know, -1092 +1047 00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,380 Airtable -1093 +1048 00:49:31,380 --> 00:49:35,099 as a- as a thing. And I actually have a- I have a lightning -1094 +1049 00:49:35,099 --> 00:49:38,819 talk on, you know, building an- an Airtable backed app next -1095 -00:49:38,819 --> 00:49:42,539 -month at - -1096 -00:49:43,199 --> 00:49:44,039 -the Virtual Coffee. +1050 +00:49:38,819 --> 00:49:44,039 +month at the Virtual Coffee. -1097 +1051 00:49:44,039 --> 00:49:45,000 -Dan: Yeah. I'm looking -- +Dan: Yeah. I'm looking-- -1098 +1052 00:49:44,068 --> 00:49:45,598 Bekah: Oh. This will probably drop [crosstalk] in -1099 -00:49:45,598 --> 00:49:47,128 -February -- on - -1100 -00:49:47,128 --> 00:49:48,298 -February 26th. +1053 +00:49:45,598 --> 00:49:48,298 +February-- on February 26th. -1101 +1054 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:46,000 -Vic: I'm- I'm looking -- +Vic: I'm- I'm looking-- -1102 +1055 00:49:49,139 --> 00:49:51,329 Dan: [Chuckles] Yeah [crosstalk]. I'm looking -1103 +1056 00:49:51,329 --> 00:49:53,519 forward to that talk. -1104 +1057 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:49,000 Vic: I'm looking forward to it. -1105 +1058 00:49:53,519 --> 00:49:55,814 Dan: And learning more about how -you like, hook up next -- you +you, like, hook up next-- you -1106 +1059 00:49:55,814 --> 00:49:58,109 know, that -1107 +1060 00:49:58,110 --> 00:49:59,820 side of it as well. Again, I could talk about this stuff for -1108 -00:49:59,820 --> 00:50:01,530 -[chuckles]- - -1109 -00:50:02,039 --> 00:50:02,699 -for hours. +1061 +00:49:59,820 --> 00:50:02,699 +[chuckles]- for hours. -1110 +1062 00:50:03,570 --> 00:50:05,940 Bekah: So, we talked about having community -1111 +1063 00:50:05,940 --> 00:50:09,780 members around your space and the journey that you can learn -1112 +1064 00:50:09,780 --> 00:50:13,979 -from too. And so, I'm curious to --- you know, how close to your +from too. And so, I'm curious +to-- you know, how close to your -1113 +1065 00:50:13,979 --> 00:50:18,178 projects -1114 +1066 00:50:18,179 --> 00:50:19,739 are they, in terms of the things -that they're making? Like, so, - -1115 -00:50:19,739 --> 00:50:21,299 -are +that they're making? Like, so -1116 -00:50:21,300 --> 00:50:24,750 -you just mainly focusing on +1067 +00:50:19,739 --> 00:50:24,750 +are you just mainly focusing on people who are doing things -1117 +1068 00:50:24,750 --> 00:50:28,500 similar to you? Or, you know, how do you kind of learn from -1118 +1069 00:50:28,860 --> 00:50:30,000 the people around you? -1119 +1070 00:50:30,179 --> 00:50:33,719 Vic: Oh, you mean, like, the- the specific niche I'm in? -1120 +1071 00:50:33,780 --> 00:50:34,500 Nich? Niche? I don't know. -1121 +1072 00:50:34,739 --> 00:50:36,929 Bekah: Yeah, I know. I say it both ways too. -1122 +1073 00:50:37,380 --> 00:50:39,030 Vic: They're kind of all over the place actually. I -1123 +1074 00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:42,960 -follow several people that are +follow several people that are, like, making candles, you know? -1124 +1075 00:50:43,019 --> 00:50:46,079 -Or -- but like, you learn +Or-- but, like, you learn something from that too, right? -1125 +1076 00:50:46,079 --> 00:50:50,010 So, this person makes candles, and, you know, they happen to -1126 +1077 00:50:50,010 --> 00:50:53,400 use Caard and Shopify to put together a site really quickly. -1127 +1078 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,760 And, you know, it's- it's once -again example of like, shipping +again example of, like, shipping -1128 +1079 00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:58,980 -quickly, right? And I don't mean -like, literally shipping +quickly, right? And I don't +mean, like, literally shipping -1129 +1080 00:50:58,980 --> 00:51:03,210 -the candle. But like, actually -like the -- I think the process +the candle. But, like, actually, +like, the-- I think the process -1130 +1081 00:51:03,210 --> 00:51:06,690 for a lot of bootstrap founders is very similar. So, like in the -1131 +1082 00:51:06,690 --> 00:51:11,219 candle making example, you could decide to build a whole business -1132 +1083 00:51:11,219 --> 00:51:14,369 and build, you know, build an -elaborate site, and then like, +elaborate site, and then, like, -1133 +1084 00:51:14,369 --> 00:51:19,710 you could release it, and find out that no one cares. Or you -1134 +1085 00:51:19,710 --> 00:51:24,420 could announce that, "Hi, I a small business solo founder. I'm -1135 +1086 00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,285 thinking about-", you know, "-making hand pouring candles." -1136 +1087 00:51:27,285 --> 00:51:30,090 And it -1137 +1088 00:51:30,090 --> 00:51:32,670 turns out that 100 peep- and then, you know, you launch a -1138 +1089 00:51:32,670 --> 00:51:36,179 -little site on like Caard, or -Shopify, or whatever, and 100 +little site on, like, Caard or +Shopify or whatever, and 100 -1139 +1090 00:51:36,179 --> 00:51:39,300 people have pre-sign up, and it -tells you that this -- you +tells you that this-- you -1140 +1091 00:51:39,300 --> 00:51:41,820 -know, there's interest for this, -and that, you know, it's +know, there's interest for this. +And that, you know, it's -1141 +1092 00:51:41,820 --> 00:51:44,969 something that you wanna do, and -this particular one, so, +this particular one—so, -1142 +1093 00:51:45,269 --> 00:51:49,380 Terra Simply is the candle company I'm talking about. But -1143 +1094 00:51:49,380 --> 00:51:52,500 -it's just like Shopify, and she -just pours candles, and, you +it's just, like, Shopify, and +she just pours candles, and, you -1144 +1095 00:51:52,500 --> 00:51:55,710 know, in her house in Missouri, -and it's like, really, really -- +and it's, like, really, really-- -1145 +1096 00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,889 so, you know, I learned a ton of stuff from this. Even though it -1146 +1097 00:51:58,889 --> 00:52:02,280 has nothing to do with- with, like, building software -1147 +1098 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:08,460 -products, right? And I follow -like, some people that- that +products, right? And I follow, +like, some people that- that, -1148 -00:52:08,489 --> 00:52:11,610 -like, you know, have other like, -direct to consumer stuff, like +1099 +00:52:08,489 --> 00:52:10,049 +like, you know, have other, +like, direct to consumer stuff, -1149 +1100 +00:52:10,049 --> 00:52:11,609 +like, + +1101 00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:13,245 printing t-shirts on demand, you -know? And I learned -- you learn +know? And I learned-- you -1150 +1102 00:52:13,245 --> 00:52:14,820 --- +learn-- -1151 +1103 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,389 you never know what you're going to learn when you start -1152 +1104 00:52:18,389 --> 00:52:22,289 following someone. And then you -do when you realize that, you +do. When you realize that, you -1153 +1105 00:52:22,289 --> 00:52:26,250 -know, this is like, something +know, this is like something that actually is really useful -1154 +1106 00:52:26,250 --> 00:52:28,125 to you. I mean, and I just -learned -- I just like learning +learned-- I just like learning -1155 +1107 00:52:28,125 --> 00:52:30,000 random -1156 +1108 00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,610 things. Like, I'm super good at triage [unintelligible] -1157 +1109 00:52:32,610 --> 00:52:36,570 your team. I just know random factoids that I shove in -1158 +1110 00:52:36,570 --> 00:52:38,040 -the back of my head for like, +the back of my head for, like, someday when it's going -1159 +1111 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:39,510 [chuckles] to be -1160 +1112 00:52:39,510 --> 00:52:43,170 useful. And- and I find that -just falling like kind of this +just falling, like, kind of this -1161 +1113 00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,590 diverse group of people, the only thing in common between all -1162 +1114 00:52:46,590 --> 00:52:51,239 of them is that they are solo founders, you know, is actually -1163 +1115 00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:52,784 really useful. I listened a bunch of podcasts, too, where I -1164 -00:52:52,784 --> 00:52:54,329 -learned - -1165 -00:52:54,329 --> 00:52:55,260 -a lot of stuff from. +1116 +00:52:52,784 --> 00:52:55,260 +learned a lot of stuff from. -1166 +1117 00:52:56,050 --> 00:52:57,969 Dan: That's a great point. And- -and just the diversity of -- +and just the diversity of-- -1167 +1118 00:52:57,969 --> 00:52:59,888 si-si-since -1168 +1119 00:52:59,889 --> 00:53:02,619 it's not all around a -technology, right? I-it's not -- +technology, right? I-it's not-- -1169 +1120 00:53:02,949 --> 00:53:04,584 you're- you're gonna have diverse solutions and- and all -1170 +1121 00:53:04,584 --> 00:53:06,219 the different -1171 +1122 00:53:06,219 --> 00:53:08,064 -problems, you know? It's -- -that's -- it seems like a very +problems, you know? It's-- +that's-- it seems like a very -1172 -00:53:08,064 --> 00:53:09,909 -cool community - -1173 -00:53:09,909 --> 00:53:10,599 -to be a part of. +1123 +00:53:08,064 --> 00:53:10,599 +cool community to be a part of. -1174 +1124 00:53:11,188 --> 00:53:13,168 Vic: Yeah. And you're gonna learn about, like, -1175 +1125 00:53:13,168 --> 00:53:15,688 some tool that someone's using -that like, you'd never even +that, like, you'd never even -1176 +1126 00:53:15,688 --> 00:53:17,578 thought of, you know, like, "Oh, wow. That's gonna be useful for -1177 -00:53:17,578 --> 00:53:19,468 -me and my - -1178 -00:53:19,559 --> 00:53:20,849 -preschool thing," or whatever. +1127 +00:53:17,578 --> 00:53:20,849 +me and my preschool thing," or +whatever. -1179 +1128 00:53:22,769 --> 00:53:24,599 Bekah: All right, Vic. I think this is been a -1180 +1129 00:53:24,599 --> 00:53:26,954 fantastic conversation, and I am -so glad to -- that you came here +so glad to-- that you came here -1181 -00:53:26,954 --> 00:53:29,309 -to - -1182 -00:53:29,309 --> 00:53:32,250 -have this with us. Where can our -listeners find you? +1130 +00:53:26,954 --> 00:53:32,250 +to have this with us. Where can +our listeners find you? -1183 +1131 00:53:33,650 --> 00:53:37,639 Vic: You can find me on Twitter at twitter.com slash -1184 +1132 00:53:37,670 --> 00:53:43,639 Vic, V-I-C, Vijayakumar, V-I-J-A-Y-A-K-U-M-A-R. Or you -1185 +1133 00:53:43,639 --> 00:53:47,780 can find me on my site where I blog about the most random -1186 +1134 00:53:47,780 --> 00:53:52,039 things. So, vicvijayakumar.com. Once again, spelled the same -1187 +1135 00:53:52,039 --> 00:53:56,000 -way. And, yeah. And I'm gonna be -sending out my first +way. And-- yeah. And I'm gonna +be sending out my first -1188 +1136 00:53:56,030 --> 00:54:00,000 newsletter this [crosstalk] month, I think. -1189 -00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:57,500 -Bekah: Woohoo. [crosstalk] I'm -sign up for - -1190 -00:53:57,500 --> 00:53:59,000 -that too. +1137 +00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,000 +Bekah: Woohoo. [Crosstalk] I'm +sign up for that too. -1191 +1138 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,000 Dan: Yeah. Yep. -1192 +1139 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:01,420 Vic: A bunch of people that have signed up. I don't know what I'm -1193 -00:54:01,420 --> 00:54:02,840 -gonna write about - -1194 -00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:04,610 -yet, but it's going to be -interesting. +1140 +00:54:01,420 --> 00:54:04,610 +gonna write about yet, but it's +going to be interesting. -1195 +1141 00:54:05,289 --> 00:54:06,940 -Bekah: Listen, I will let you +Bekah: Listen. I will let you know I sign up for -1196 +1142 00:54:06,940 --> 00:54:08,454 everything that Vic does, because he's super awesome -1197 +1143 00:54:08,454 --> 00:54:09,968 [chuckles]. So, I -1198 +1144 00:54:09,969 --> 00:54:12,000 can't wait until [crosstalk] Meet Sweats drops. -1199 +1145 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,000 Vic: [Laughs] Thank you. -1200 +1146 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,973 Bekah: Because [crosstalk] I know it's gonna -1201 +1147 00:54:13,973 --> 00:54:15,946 be life changing. Doesn't matter. You made it. I'll be -1202 +1148 00:54:15,946 --> 00:54:17,919 there [laughs]. -1203 +1149 00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,000 Vic: [Laughs] Who knows what it's gonna be about? -1204 +1150 00:54:18,969 --> 00:54:20,530 It's gonna be the fire fest [??] of our day. -1205 +1151 00:54:24,550 --> 00:54:25,030 Dan: [Laughs] Amazing. -1206 +1152 00:54:25,780 --> 00:54:27,909 Bekah: Okay, well, we'll have all those links in -1207 +1153 00:54:27,940 --> 00:54:32,500 the show notes, and you can find Vic and all of the very, very -1208 +1154 00:54:32,500 --> 00:54:34,840 cool projects that he is working out there. -1209 +1155 00:54:35,889 --> 00:54:37,239 Vic: And at the Virtual Coffee community. -1210 +1156 00:54:37,389 --> 00:54:38,769 Bekah: And at the Virtual Coffee community. -1211 +1157 00:54:39,670 --> 00:54:40,630 Vic: Bye, y'all! Thanks for having me. -1212 +1158 00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:40,690 Bekah: Bye! -1213 +1159 00:54:40,989 --> 00:54:41,710 Dan: Thanks, Vic. -1214 +1160 00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:48,130 Bekah: Thank you for listening to this episode of -1215 +1161 00:54:48,130 --> 00:54:52,389 the Virtual Coffee podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott -1216 +1162 00:54:52,389 --> 00:54:56,650 and Bekah Hawrot Weigel, and edited by Dan Ott. If you have -1217 +1163 00:54:56,650 --> 00:54:59,530 any questions or comments, you can hit us up on Twitter -1218 +1164 00:54:59,530 --> 00:55:01,929 @VirtualCoffeeIO, or you can email us at -1219 +1165 00:55:01,929 --> 00:55:04,328 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. -1220 +1166 00:55:04,329 --> 00:55:09,159 You can find the show notes at virtualcoffee.io. -1221 +1167 00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,070 Plus, you can sign up for our newsletter to find out what -1222 +1168 00:55:12,070 --> 00:55:12,789 we've been up to. -1223 +1169 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,320 Dan: Please make sure to subscribe to the Virtual Coffee -1224 +1170 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,769 -podcast if you haven't already. +Podcast if you haven't already. And if you feel like writing a -1225 +1171 00:55:19,769 --> 00:55:23,760 review, we'd love to hear from -you. Next week we'll have +you. Next week, we'll have -1226 +1172 00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,659 Cameron Bardell and Rahat Chowdhury on the podcast to talk -1227 +1173 00:55:27,690 --> 00:55:32,039 about mental health and tech, and the intersection of the two. -1228 +1174 00:55:32,639 --> 00:55:34,650 -Thanks for listening and we'll +Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week. \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/episodes/1_5.srt b/episodes/1_5.srt index 4d3146a..bfb3368 100644 --- a/episodes/1_5.srt +++ b/episodes/1_5.srt @@ -1,7 +1,7 @@ 1 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:16,980 Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Hello, and -welcome to season 1, episode +welcome to Season 1, Episode 2 00:00:16,980 --> 00:00:23,339 @@ -19,133 +19,133 @@ Virtual Coffee is an intimate group of developers at all 5 -00:00:29,670 --> 00:00:33,299 +00:00:29,670 --> 00:00:31,484 stages of their coding journey. -And they're here on this podcast +And they're here, on this 6 +00:00:31,484 --> 00:00:33,298 +podcast, + +7 00:00:33,299 --> 00:00:36,329 sharing their stories and what they've learned. And we're here -7 +8 00:00:36,329 --> 00:00:39,689 to share it with you. Here with me today is my co-host, Dan. -8 +9 00:00:40,590 --> 00:00:43,979 -Dan Ott: Thanks, Bekah. Today on -this episode, you'll hear from +Dan Ott: Thanks, Bekah. Today, +on this episode, you'll hear -9 +10 00:00:43,979 --> 00:00:47,369 -Rahat Chowdhury, and Cameron +from Rahat Chowdhury and Cameron Bardell. Rahat is a -10 +11 00:00:47,369 --> 00:00:50,640 second-career developer, mental health advocate, live coding -11 +12 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,700 streamer, and a rapper. He is also the founder of a mental -12 +13 00:00:53,700 --> 00:00:56,939 health startup called Whimser, which is aimed at providing -13 +14 00:00:56,939 --> 00:01:01,140 tools to help keep up your mental health. Cameron is an iOS -14 +15 00:01:01,140 --> 00:01:04,379 developer in the healthcare industry from Waterloo, Ontario. -15 +16 00:01:04,500 --> 00:01:07,439 He is also in the final stages of an undergraduate degree in -16 +17 00:01:07,439 --> 00:01:11,340 physics and computer science. In this episode, we talk about -17 +18 00:01:11,340 --> 00:01:14,069 building mental health projects balancing mental health with -18 +19 00:01:14,069 --> 00:01:17,609 careers and life and how mental health recovery isn't linear. -19 +20 00:01:18,269 --> 00:01:20,099 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: We start -every episode of the podcast +Bekah: We start every episode of +the podcast -20 +21 00:01:20,099 --> 00:01:22,859 like we start every Virtual Coffee. We introduce ourselves -21 +22 00:01:22,859 --> 00:01:27,000 with our name, where we're from, what we do, and a random check -22 +23 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,349 -in question. Today's question is -if you had to choose one +in question. Today's question +is, if you had to choose one -23 +24 00:01:31,349 --> 00:01:34,109 song for karaoke, what would it be? -24 +25 00:01:43,469 --> 00:01:47,040 -Hey, I'm Bekah. I'm a front end +Hey, I'm Bekah. I'm a front-end developer from a small town in -25 +26 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,785 Ohio. And if I could sing one song for karaoke, it would be -26 -00:01:49,785 --> 00:01:52,530 -"No - 27 -00:01:52,530 --> 00:01:54,090 -Time Left For You" by The Guess -Who? +00:01:49,785 --> 00:01:54,090 +"No Time Left For You" by The +Guess Who? 28 00:01:55,799 --> 00:01:59,340 -Dan Ott: Nice. Hi, I'm Dan. I'm -a front end developer from +Dan: Nice. Hi, I'm Dan. I'm a +front-end developer from 29 00:01:59,370 --> 00:02:06,000 -Cleveland, Ohio. I would, if I +Cleveland, Ohio. I would-- if I could sing any karaoke song, I 30 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,639 -think anything about Cake is -like really in my wheelhouse. +think anything about Cake is, +like, really in my wheelhouse. 31 00:02:09,210 --> 00:02:14,129 @@ -154,7 +154,7 @@ and his register kind of matches 32 00:02:14,129 --> 00:02:17,159 -mine. So I think pretty much +mine. So I think, pretty much anything by Cake. And I would 33 @@ -184,65 +184,65 @@ for the past month. So yeah. 38 00:02:34,110 --> 00:02:34,710 -Dan Ott: That's a good one. +Dan: That's a good one. 39 -00:02:35,879 --> 00:02:37,439 -Cameron Bardell: That's better -than what I got (laugh). I'm +00:02:35,879 --> 00:02:38,999 +Cameron: That's better than what +I got [laughs]. I'm Cameron. 40 -00:02:37,439 --> 00:02:38,999 -Cameron. - -41 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,379 I'm an iOS developer from Waterloo, Ontario. And my go-to -42 +41 00:02:43,379 --> 00:02:45,750 karaoke song is "Smile" by Uncle Cracker. -43 +42 00:02:46,650 --> 00:02:47,400 -Dan Ott: Nice. +Dan: Nice. -44 +43 00:02:47,490 --> 00:02:50,520 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Awesome. -Well, thank you both for being +Bekah: Awesome. Well, thank you +both for being -45 +44 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,550 here. We're very excited to have you on today to talk about -46 +45 00:02:53,550 --> 00:02:56,879 mental health tech. Both have been working on some really cool -47 +46 00:02:56,879 --> 00:03:01,169 projects that we're excited to talk about. But before we get -48 +47 00:03:01,169 --> 00:03:04,500 there, I always like to do a little bit of the origin story. +48 +00:03:04,530 --> 00:03:06,674 +And so, can you talk about +that-- maybe, Cameron, if you + 49 -00:03:04,530 --> 00:03:08,819 -And so can you talk about that -maybe Cameron, if you want to +00:03:06,674 --> 00:03:08,818 +want to 50 00:03:08,819 --> 00:03:12,449 talk first and tell us how you -got into tech and then Rahat. +got into tech, and then Rahat. 51 00:03:12,449 --> 00:03:13,289 @@ -251,17 +251,17 @@ That would be awesome. 52 00:03:14,020 --> 00:03:16,449 Cameron Bardell: Sure, yeah. I -was always like, it's kind of a +was always, like, it's kind of 53 00:03:16,900 --> 00:03:20,199 -techie kid. And then, but I +a techie kid. And then-- but I didn't do any real programming 54 00:03:20,199 --> 00:03:23,979 until I got to high school. So I -think it was in about grade 10 +think, it was in about grade 10 55 00:03:24,310 --> 00:03:25,810 @@ -274,18 +274,18 @@ which was 57 00:03:27,310 --> 00:03:33,039 -all in Python. And my, my -teacher, that course, who was a +all in Python. And my- my +teacher that course—who was a 58 00:03:33,039 --> 00:03:35,229 -really good guy who I still talk -to sometimes, he was my +really good guy, who I still +talk to sometimes—he was my 59 00:03:35,229 --> 00:03:37,689 computer science and physics -teacher in high school. And now +teacher in high school. And now, 60 00:03:37,689 --> 00:03:40,300 @@ -300,7 +300,7 @@ that I was taking a bit of extra 62 00:03:42,879 --> 00:03:44,484 interest, then he pulled me -aside and said, would you like +aside and said, "Would you like 63 00:03:44,484 --> 00:03:46,089 @@ -308,83 +308,83 @@ to find 64 00:03:46,090 --> 00:03:49,120 -some extra projects to work on? -And I said, yeah. So he sent me +some extra projects to work on?" +And I said, "Yeah." So, he sent 65 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,530 -down to the like center for -extended learning, I think it +me down to the, like, center for +extended learning—I think it 66 -00:03:53,530 --> 00:03:55,540 -was called there in high school. -And they were started, got +00:03:53,530 --> 00:03:54,535 +was called there, in high +school. And they were started-- 67 +00:03:54,535 --> 00:03:55,540 +got + +68 00:03:55,540 --> 00:03:57,550 started with a -68 +69 00:03:57,550 --> 00:03:59,395 project building Flash games and -action, and ActionScript +Action- and ActionScript -69 +70 00:03:59,395 --> 00:04:01,240 -(laugh). +[laughs]. -70 +71 00:04:01,900 --> 00:04:05,319 -Educational, yeah, RAP Flash, +Educational-- yeah, RAP Flash, educational games and -71 +72 00:04:05,319 --> 00:04:07,374 ActionScript for students, and -that was my first, I don't know, +that was my first-- I don't -72 +73 00:04:07,374 --> 00:04:09,429 -the first thing I +know, the first thing I -73 +74 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,789 ever programmed that anyone else -ever looked at. And you know, I +ever looked at. And, you know, -74 +75 00:04:12,789 --> 00:04:14,289 -just took it from there. +I just took it from there. -75 +76 00:04:14,889 --> 00:04:16,269 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: That's -awesome. I always love those +Bekah: That's awesome. I always +love those -76 +77 00:04:16,269 --> 00:04:19,240 stories when you have good teachers who kind of, you know, -77 +78 00:04:19,420 --> 00:04:22,930 -notice that in you and, and +notice that in you and- and they're able to cultivate that. -78 -00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,540 -Cameron Bardell: That's a big -thing what he does at that - 79 -00:04:25,540 --> 00:04:27,084 -school with me. He always like -kinda gets identifies the kids +00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,540 +Cameron: That's a big thing what +he does at that school with me. 80 -00:04:27,084 --> 00:04:28,628 -who +00:04:25,540 --> 00:04:28,628 +He always, like, kinda gets +identifies the kids who 81 00:04:28,660 --> 00:04:31,540 @@ -398,18 +398,18 @@ his wing. Just super great. 83 00:04:34,540 --> 00:04:36,730 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: So great. -All right. Rahat. +Bekah: So great. All right. +Rahat. 84 00:04:37,300 --> 00:04:40,629 -Rahat Chowdhury: Yeah, so I got -into tech a little bit later in +Rahat: Yeah. So, I got into tech +a little bit later in 85 00:04:40,629 --> 00:04:44,379 -life, I guess. So I had a built -up a career kind of in like +life, I guess. So, I had a built +up a career kind of in, like, 86 00:04:44,379 --> 00:04:47,319 @@ -417,4818 +417,4978 @@ customer support. And I was managing customer support teams 87 -00:04:47,319 --> 00:04:52,149 +00:04:47,319 --> 00:04:49,734 at different tech startups. And -I got to like work with a lot of +I got to, like, work with a lot 88 +00:04:49,734 --> 00:04:52,149 +of + +89 00:04:52,149 --> 00:04:55,120 -the engineers just seeing like +the engineers just seeing, like, different bugs kind of get fixed -89 +90 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,189 whenever a customer would like complain about things, I guess. -90 +91 00:04:57,759 --> 00:05:01,779 And that's what kind of got me interested into the whole thing -91 +92 00:05:01,779 --> 00:05:05,290 at first. I wanted to see if I could be the one actually fixing -92 +93 00:05:05,290 --> 00:05:10,329 -stuff. So my wife is really +stuff. So, my wife is really supportive. She helped me -93 +94 00:05:10,329 --> 00:05:14,620 through a lot of things and went -to a bootcamp and yeah, now I'm +to a bootcamp. And, yeah, now -94 +95 00:05:14,620 --> 00:05:15,579 -doing fixing stuff. +I'm doing fixing stuff. -95 +96 00:05:17,139 --> 00:05:21,819 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: That is -awesome. I love it. And so you +Bekah: That is awesome. I love +it. And so you -96 +97 00:05:21,819 --> 00:05:24,459 both also have different histories with Virtual Coffee. -97 +98 00:05:24,459 --> 00:05:28,930 Cameron, I feel like I've known you forever. I remember you -98 +99 00:05:28,930 --> 00:05:32,470 first joining Virtual Coffee. But I always like to ask to -99 +100 00:05:32,470 --> 00:05:35,050 you, how did you find Virtual Coffee? -100 +101 00:05:35,550 --> 00:05:37,110 -Cameron Bardell: Yeah. So -someone retweeted I think it was +Cameron: Yeah. So, someone +retweeted, I think. It -101 +102 00:05:37,110 --> 00:05:40,110 -in June, you guys there in -April, right? Then somebody +was in June, you guys there in +April, right? Then, somebody -102 +103 00:05:40,110 --> 00:05:43,500 retweeted your invite link in -June. And I think I just +June. And I think, I just -103 +104 00:05:43,500 --> 00:05:45,540 replied to the tweet asking you -if it was public, or if it was +if it was public or if it was, -104 +105 00:05:45,540 --> 00:05:47,430 like, kind of close thing? You -said, yeah, it's public. Come +said, "Yeah, it's public. Come -105 +106 00:05:47,430 --> 00:05:50,550 -join. So I did. And I've been +join." So, I did. And I've been coming ever since then. It was -106 +107 00:05:50,550 --> 00:05:52,740 -probably, it was really, you +probably-- it was really, you know, in the midst of the -107 +108 00:05:52,740 --> 00:05:55,620 -pandemic, and, you know, talk to +pandemic. And, you know, talk to anyone that it wasn't directly -108 +109 00:05:55,620 --> 00:05:59,550 -related to a month. It was a bit +related to a month, it was a bit of a savior for me. -109 +110 00:05:59,550 --> 00:06:01,529 Definitely one of the best things I did in all of 2020. -110 +111 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,800 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, and -now you are, you're growing our +Bekah: Yeah. And now, you are-- +you're growing -111 +112 00:06:04,829 --> 00:06:06,779 -iOS, our mobile group of -developers, because people see, +our iOS, our mobile group of +developers because people see, -112 +113 00:06:06,779 --> 00:06:08,729 and they come for Cameron. -113 -00:06:08,970 --> 00:06:09,105 -Cameron Bardell: Yeah. I was the -only one for a long time - 114 -00:06:09,105 --> 00:06:09,240 -(laugh). +00:06:08,970 --> 00:06:09,240 +Cameron: Yeah. I was the only +one for a long time [laughs]. 115 00:06:11,850 --> 00:06:13,290 I was only one for a few months. -Now I think +Now, I think, 116 00:06:13,290 --> 00:06:16,589 we're up to four or five. You -know, we're still, what is +know, we're still ... what is 117 00:06:16,589 --> 00:06:18,810 that? 2% of all the people who -attend (laugh), but still. +attend [laughs], but still. 118 00:06:19,889 --> 00:06:22,019 -Dan Ott: Also a strong member of -our Canadian contingent. +Dan: Also a strong member of our +Canadian contingent. 119 00:06:22,500 --> 00:06:23,160 -Cameron Bardell: Right? Yeah. +Cameron: Right? Yeah. 120 00:06:23,910 --> 00:06:24,480 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah. +Bekah: Yeah. 121 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,699 -Cameron Bardell: Like, I'm -meeting some niche groups. +Cameron: Like, I'm meeting some +niche groups. 122 -00:06:29,579 --> 00:06:30,929 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: (laugh) And -Rahat. How did you find Virtual +00:06:29,579 --> 00:06:32,279 +Bekah: [Laughs] And Rahat, how +did you find Virtual Coffee? 123 -00:06:30,929 --> 00:06:32,279 -Coffee? - -124 00:06:32,819 --> 00:06:34,514 -Rahat Chowdhury: Um, I think -I've seen it a couple times on +Rahat: I think I've seen it a +couple times on -125 +124 00:06:34,514 --> 00:06:36,209 Twitter. -126 +125 00:06:36,449 --> 00:06:38,219 -And I didn't join at first, +And I didn't join at first because I'm not 100% know what -127 -00:06:38,219 --> 00:06:39,989 -it - -128 -00:06:39,990 --> 00:06:47,579 -was? And then I think it was +126 +00:06:38,219 --> 00:06:47,579 +it was? And then, I think it was Andy, from protege.dev, told -129 +127 00:06:47,579 --> 00:06:52,350 me a little bit about it. And yeah, joined in into one of the -130 +128 00:06:53,699 --> 00:06:57,089 meetups, I guess. And then, yeah, from there just really -131 +129 00:06:57,089 --> 00:07:00,269 loved the environment and vibe. -So kept going. +So, kept going. -132 +130 00:07:00,750 --> 00:07:02,579 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, nice. -I remember, I remember that +Bekah: Yeah, nice. I remember- I +remember that -133 +131 00:07:02,579 --> 00:07:05,129 conversation now. Because we were talking about working on -134 +132 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:06,180 Epic React. -135 +133 00:07:06,269 --> 00:07:06,569 -Rahat Chowdhury: Yeah. +Rahat: Yeah. -136 +134 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,439 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: And we have -a channel for that, which is not +Bekah: And we have a channel for +that, which is not -137 +135 00:07:10,439 --> 00:07:10,980 -that active. (laugh) +that active [laughs]. -138 +136 00:07:13,290 --> 00:07:14,309 -Rahat Chowdhury: (laugh) Came -for Epic React, stayed for +Rahat: [Laughs] Came for Epic +React, stayed for -139 +137 00:07:14,309 --> 00:07:15,328 everything else. -140 +138 00:07:16,019 --> 00:07:18,180 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: There you -go. It's our new tagline. +Bekah: There you go. It's our +new tagline. -141 +139 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,639 Okay, so both of you have projects using mental health -142 +140 00:07:23,639 --> 00:07:26,970 tech, and I'd love to talk a -little bit more about those. So +little bit more about those. So, -143 +141 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,540 can you just kind of give an overview about the projects that -144 +142 00:07:30,540 --> 00:07:31,529 you started? -145 -00:07:32,699 --> 00:07:34,589 -Rahat Chowdhury: Yeah. So -there's a couple, two things - -146 -00:07:34,589 --> 00:07:36,479 -that I'm +143 +00:07:32,699 --> 00:07:36,479 +Rahat: Yeah. So, there's a +couple-- two things that I'm -147 +144 00:07:36,509 --> 00:07:40,649 mainly working on. One is an -open-source project. It's called +open source project. It's called -148 +145 00:07:40,649 --> 00:07:47,040 -The Sylar Project. So that is -sort of like a database of +The Sylar Project. So, that is +sort of, like, a database of -149 +146 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,600 different mental health resources in the US. What I'm -150 +147 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,110 hoping is to kind of like, get people to help me add more and -151 +148 00:07:55,110 --> 00:07:59,370 more resources to it. And either in their own states or cities. -152 +149 00:07:59,699 --> 00:08:04,800 -So there could be like more +So, there could be, like, more stuff for people to look up. The -153 +150 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,160 reason I kind of started it is because, you know, taking that -154 +151 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:12,240 -step into, like trying to find +step into, like, trying to find help or find resources that will -155 +152 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,620 help you is like a pretty big one. And I wanted to make it as -156 +153 00:08:16,620 --> 00:08:20,310 -easy as possible, like once you +easy as possible, like, once you did make that step to find -157 +154 00:08:20,399 --> 00:08:23,790 something that could be helpful -for you. So having it all kind +for you. So, having it all kind -158 +155 00:08:23,790 --> 00:08:27,060 of like in one central place would be, you know, probably -159 +156 00:08:27,060 --> 00:08:32,250 -ideal for that. So yeah, I'm, +ideal for that. So yeah, I'm-- eventually I'm going to turn it -160 -00:08:32,250 --> 00:08:35,309 -into like an API that other -developers can like, build stuff +157 +00:08:32,250 --> 00:08:33,779 +into, like, an API that other +developers can, like, build -161 +158 +00:08:33,779 --> 00:08:35,308 +stuff + +159 00:08:35,309 --> 00:08:40,559 off of. But for now, yeah, it's just kind of a list. The US, -162 +160 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:45,240 hopefully, maybe in more countries soon. And yeah, the -163 +161 00:08:45,269 --> 00:08:49,500 thing is a startup, I'm hoping to launch very, very soon. It's -164 +162 00:08:49,500 --> 00:08:53,100 called Whimser. And it's all about cognitive-behavioral -165 +163 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:56,940 therapy, and kind of like journaling and voice note -166 +164 00:08:56,940 --> 00:09:00,870 journaling, and kind of getting -reminders of like, the good +reminders of, like, the good -167 +165 00:09:01,049 --> 00:09:03,929 things that happened over time and challenging those negative -168 +166 00:09:03,929 --> 00:09:04,320 thoughts and stuffs. -169 +167 00:09:05,669 --> 00:09:08,340 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: That's -awesome. I love that. I was +Bekah: That's awesome. I love +that. I was -170 +168 00:09:08,399 --> 00:09:13,440 working on this postpartum app. And I kind of just went into it, -171 +169 00:09:13,860 --> 00:09:17,220 working on it by myself. But I reached out to a group of moms -172 +170 00:09:17,220 --> 00:09:19,679 -and I said, like, what would you -like to see in something like +and I said, like, "What would +you like to see in something -173 +171 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,370 -this? And one of the top +like this?" And one of the top responses was resources for my -174 +172 00:09:23,370 --> 00:09:29,039 area. And I didn't have anything about that there. But also, it -175 +173 00:09:29,039 --> 00:09:34,139 was really hard to find that -online, too. And so I certainly +online, too. And so, I certainly -176 +174 00:09:34,139 --> 00:09:38,700 think that that's really, really valuable. Along with, you know, -177 +175 00:09:38,759 --> 00:09:41,669 all of the other things, anything that can benefit mental -178 +176 00:09:41,669 --> 00:09:43,740 health is super important. -179 +177 00:09:45,090 --> 00:09:46,529 -Rahat Chowdhury: Yeah, I think -there's like a lot of, I guess, +Rahat: Yeah, I think there's +like a lot of, I guess, -180 +178 00:09:46,529 --> 00:09:49,139 niches in mental health that aren't really covered in some of -181 +179 00:09:49,139 --> 00:09:52,139 -the general labs. So there's +the general labs. So, there's definitely a lot of things that -182 +180 00:09:52,139 --> 00:09:54,450 we can do in this space. -183 +181 00:09:55,019 --> 00:09:56,730 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I feel like -I could talk about it for seven +Bekah: I feel like I could talk +about it for seven -184 +182 00:09:56,730 --> 00:10:03,059 -hours. So try and stay focused -here. Um, Cameron, what about +hours. So, try and stay focused +here. Cameron, what about -185 +183 00:10:03,059 --> 00:10:03,840 your project? -186 +184 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,629 -Cameron Bardell: Sure. So my -project kind of grew out of my +Cameron: Sure. So, my project +kind of grew out of my -187 +185 00:10:06,629 --> 00:10:09,450 own personal journey with mental -health, I was doing lots of +health. I was doing lots of -188 +186 00:10:09,450 --> 00:10:12,570 research on how people track their mental health over time -189 +187 00:10:12,570 --> 00:10:15,929 -and how you can do, there's -various different methods to +and how you can do-- there's +various different methods to, -190 +188 00:10:15,929 --> 00:10:19,169 -like check trends and mental -health, whether it's like, like +like, check trends and mental +health. Whether it's like- like -191 -00:10:19,169 --> 00:10:22,110 -CBT, like Rahat said, or just -like doing daily journaling, or, +189 +00:10:19,169 --> 00:10:20,639 +CBT—like Rahat said—or just, +like, doing daily journaling -192 +190 +00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:22,109 +or-- + +191 00:10:22,529 --> 00:10:26,580 and I found that a lot of these clinical studies use these super +192 +00:10:26,580 --> 00:10:28,500 +long surveys that can take up +to, like, half an hour to + 193 -00:10:26,580 --> 00:10:29,250 -long surveys that can take up to -like, half an hour to complete, +00:10:28,500 --> 00:10:30,960 +complete, and you're supposed to +do them every day. And that's 194 -00:10:29,250 --> 00:10:30,960 -and you're supposed to do them -every day. And that's - -195 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,690 exhausting. And it was a time for that. So I dug a little more -196 +195 00:10:33,690 --> 00:10:36,480 -into that, and found that those -studies who use those, I would +into that and found that those +studies who use those-- I would -197 +196 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,039 certainly have their place and not saying they should be -198 +197 00:10:38,039 --> 00:10:41,909 replaced in anyway. But they can often get similar results to -199 +198 00:10:41,909 --> 00:10:44,970 these other smaller scale studies that use really simple +199 +00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,274 +measurement systems. And the one +I found that I really liked + 200 -00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,549 -measurement systems and the one -I found that I really liked was, +00:10:46,274 --> 00:10:47,548 +was-- 201 00:10:49,379 --> 00:10:52,320 -so it's just really simple, all -you do is you get yourself, your +so, it's just really simple. All +you do is you get yourself your 202 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,110 -mental well being whatever is -most important to you, on a +mental well-being—whatever is +most important to you—on a 203 00:10:55,110 --> 00:10:57,690 scale of 1 to 10, once in the -morning, and once in the +morning and once in the 204 00:10:57,690 --> 00:11:00,570 evening, and you do that twice. -So you do it kind of for your +So, you do it kind of for your 205 -00:11:00,570 --> 00:11:02,639 -general overall well being, then -you pick another thing that's +00:11:00,570 --> 00:11:01,604 +general overall well-being. +Then, you pick another thing 206 +00:11:01,604 --> 00:11:02,638 +that's + +207 00:11:02,639 --> 00:11:04,889 important to you, whether -that's, you know, your sleep, or +that's, you know, your sleep or -207 +208 00:11:04,889 --> 00:11:08,490 your anxiety or your nutrition, and you rate that in a scale of -208 +209 00:11:08,490 --> 00:11:10,440 1 to 10 along with your general -wellness. So you're +wellness. So, you're -209 +210 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,419 basically doing four readings a day. Two in the morning, two in -210 +211 00:11:12,419 --> 00:11:14,234 the afternoon. It's super easy -to do. You, I, you know, you +to do. You-- I-- you know, you -211 +212 00:11:14,234 --> 00:11:16,049 open -212 +213 00:11:16,049 --> 00:11:18,269 after 10 seconds a day and do your reading, and then you go -213 +214 00:11:18,269 --> 00:11:20,700 about with your day. So I started building an app for -214 +215 00:11:20,700 --> 00:11:24,299 that. And I've had to kind of shell that a little bit because -215 +216 00:11:24,299 --> 00:11:27,179 I recently started a new full time job, hoping to get back to -216 +217 00:11:27,179 --> 00:11:29,639 -it soon. But yeah, I think a lot -of the solutions out there +it soon. But, yeah, I think a +lot of the solutions out there -217 +218 00:11:31,019 --> 00:11:32,729 really intensive and time-consuming. And you're meant -218 +219 00:11:32,729 --> 00:11:34,439 to -219 +220 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,350 open the app and kind of spend some time in there. But I think, -220 +221 00:11:37,350 --> 00:11:40,320 you know, the goal for my app would be to spend as little time -221 +222 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:40,980 in it as possible. -222 +223 00:11:43,409 --> 00:11:45,000 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, I -like that approach. Some of +Bekah: Yeah, I like that +approach. Some of -223 +224 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,685 -those, you, you look at in it, -it's so complicated, it that it, +those, you- you look at in it, +it's so complicated. It-- that -224 +225 00:11:47,685 --> 00:11:50,370 -it's an +it-- it's an -225 +226 00:11:50,370 --> 00:11:54,330 -automatic like, I'm done. I'm +automatic, like, I'm done. I'm not gonna sit here and go -226 +227 00:11:54,330 --> 00:11:57,509 through all of these things. And watch all of your screens give -227 +228 00:11:57,509 --> 00:11:59,309 me messages and positive things like I want to feel where I -228 +229 00:11:59,309 --> 00:12:01,109 wanna go. -229 -00:12:02,220 --> 00:12:03,299 -Cameron Bardell: It feels like -you're supposed to live in the - 230 -00:12:03,299 --> 00:12:05,730 -app, sometimes. Like they have -common videos to watch, and you +00:12:02,220 --> 00:12:03,299 +Cameron: It feels like you're +supposed to live in the 231 -00:12:05,730 --> 00:12:08,519 -know, like maybe guided -meditations, or some of them are +00:12:03,299 --> 00:12:05,730 +app, sometimes. Like, they have +common videos to watch and, you 232 -00:12:08,519 --> 00:12:11,220 -like gamified, where you can -like earn awards and stuff. And +00:12:05,730 --> 00:12:07,124 +know, like, maybe guided +meditations, or some of them 233 +00:12:07,124 --> 00:12:08,518 +are, + +234 +00:12:08,519 --> 00:12:11,220 +like, gamified, where you can, +like, earn awards and stuff. And + +235 00:12:11,220 --> 00:12:13,710 sure, yeah, those work for tons of people get great reviews and -234 +236 00:12:13,710 --> 00:12:15,359 works a lot. But it doesn't work -for me (laugh). I want to, you +for me [laughs]. I want to, you -235 +237 00:12:15,359 --> 00:12:17,008 know, I -236 +238 00:12:17,009 --> 00:12:20,009 want to spend as little time -thinking about it. So, and there +thinking about it. So-- and -237 +239 00:12:20,009 --> 00:12:21,299 -was no solution out there. So I -built it. +there was no solution out there. +So, I built it. -238 +240 00:12:22,379 --> 00:12:26,039 -Dan Ott: That's awesome. I was -going to say something about +Dan: That's awesome. I was going +to say something about -239 +241 00:12:26,039 --> 00:12:29,699 -the, +the-- -240 +242 00:12:29,700 --> 00:12:32,639 -oh, the cognitive therapy, yeah. +oh, the cognitive therapy. Yeah. Rahat, you had mentioned that -241 +243 00:12:32,639 --> 00:12:35,624 -with your, with your startup -that you're working on. The, +with your- with your startup +that you're working on, the-- -242 +244 00:12:35,624 --> 00:12:38,609 that area -243 +245 00:12:38,610 --> 00:12:42,509 -of like therapy has been very +of, like, therapy has been very interesting to me. And at some -244 +246 00:12:42,509 --> 00:12:44,474 -times, it's been successful, but -a lot of it with, I mean +times, it's been successful but +a lot of it with-- I mean, -245 +247 00:12:44,474 --> 00:12:46,439 personally, -246 +248 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,150 -when, I mean it's just my +when-- I mean, it's just my personal experience, my problem -247 +249 00:12:48,150 --> 00:12:49,860 with it -248 +250 00:12:49,860 --> 00:12:54,509 is sort of getting myself to do anything about it. And this is -249 +251 00:12:54,509 --> 00:12:57,029 sort of applies to what Cameron -was saying to you. But like, the +was saying to you. But, like, -250 +252 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:58,470 -exercises that a therapist -would, would give me would be, +the exercises that a therapist +would- would give me would be, -251 +253 00:12:58,470 --> 00:12:59,820 you -252 +254 00:12:59,820 --> 00:13:02,519 know, these things that I have -to both remember how to do, +to both remember how to do- -253 +255 00:13:02,580 --> 00:13:06,509 remember to do them, and then also, I don't know, do them at -254 -00:13:06,509 --> 00:13:08,700 -the right way, or whatever. Or -maybe there isn't like a right +256 +00:13:06,509 --> 00:13:07,604 +the right way or whatever. Or +maybe, there isn't, like, a -255 +257 +00:13:07,604 --> 00:13:08,699 +right + +258 00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:12,149 way. But it's like there's full of doubt, you know, like, -256 +259 00:13:13,980 --> 00:13:15,600 wondering if I'm doing it the -right way or not. So I was, I +right way or not. So, I was- I -257 -00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,220 -was +260 +00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,105 +was wondering if there's-- if +you have some plans with -258 -00:13:17,220 --> 00:13:20,610 -wondering if there's, if you -have some plans with cognitive +261 +00:13:18,105 --> 00:13:20,610 +cognitive -259 +262 00:13:20,610 --> 00:13:24,750 -therapy, like specifically -about, you know, I don't know. +therapy, like, specifically +about, you know-- I don't know. -260 +263 00:13:24,779 --> 00:13:27,389 -About how to approach like, sort -of things like that? +About how to approach, like, +sort of things like that? -261 +264 00:13:27,570 --> 00:13:30,149 -Rahat Chowdhury: Yeah, I think -in our case, probably, cognitive +Rahat: Yeah. I think, in our +case, probably-- cognitive -262 +265 00:13:30,299 --> 00:13:33,299 behavioral therapy is probably -just kind of in the MVP, or the +just kind of in the MVP or the -263 +266 00:13:33,299 --> 00:13:35,864 beginning stages. What we're -kind of planning to do is like, +kind of planning to do is, like, -264 +267 00:13:35,864 --> 00:13:38,429 have it -265 +268 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,690 be a little bit of a guided sort of prompt thing, but hopefully, -266 +269 00:13:42,690 --> 00:13:45,929 -with not too many prompts, like -Cameron mentioned, which is +with not too many prompts—like +Cameron mentioned—which is -267 +270 00:13:45,929 --> 00:13:49,289 definitely an issue in a lot of -apps. So it's kind of like, +apps. So, it's kind of like -268 +271 00:13:49,919 --> 00:13:54,929 choose your emotion. You can write down something, record -269 -00:13:54,929 --> 00:13:59,039 -something and be done with that. -Or if you want to, like, get +272 +00:13:54,929 --> 00:13:56,984 +something, and be done with +that. Or if you want to, like, -270 +273 +00:13:56,984 --> 00:13:59,039 +get + +274 00:13:59,039 --> 00:14:01,740 more insight onto things and challenge some of your thoughts. -271 +275 00:14:02,070 --> 00:14:04,769 It'll then take you on, like, -guided like two more questions +guided, like, two more questions -272 +276 00:14:04,799 --> 00:14:07,829 -of like, what's a cognitive, -like a cognitive behavioral +of, like, "what's a cognitive", +like, "a cognitive behavioral -273 +277 00:14:07,829 --> 00:14:10,859 distortion -274 +278 00:14:11,519 --> 00:14:15,360 -that you're facing right now. -Gives you some info about what +that you're facing right now", +gives you some info about what -275 +279 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,080 those are, and asks you to kind of challenge the thought in some -276 +280 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,915 -way. And, you know, if, and -that, that journey, I think is +way. And, you know, if-- and +that- that journey, I think, is -277 +281 00:14:21,915 --> 00:14:24,750 more -278 +282 00:14:24,750 --> 00:14:30,059 optional. And sort of like, if -you just want to record, record +you just want to record- record -279 +283 00:14:30,059 --> 00:14:33,240 yourself an event, it's kind of -like, that's an option too. +like-- that's an option too. -280 -00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:39,840 -And if you do want more, more of -that info and more like, I guess +284 +00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,900 +And if you do want more- more of +that info and more, like, I -281 +285 +00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:39,840 +guess + +286 00:14:39,870 --> 00:14:44,100 more deeper CBT stuff, then it's a little bit guided scope and -282 +287 00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:49,200 more questions on that. Our eventual hope is that the app -283 +288 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:55,379 kind of becomes a sort of like a -custom journey based on like +custom journey based on, like, -284 +289 00:14:55,379 --> 00:14:57,450 -your work with like your -therapist or psychiatrist, or +your work with, like, your +therapist or psychiatrist or -285 -00:14:57,450 --> 00:15:01,289 -whoever. We're hoping that like -health professionals can like +290 +00:14:57,450 --> 00:14:59,369 +whoever. We're hoping that, +like, health professionals can, -286 +291 +00:14:59,369 --> 00:15:01,288 +like, + +292 00:15:01,379 --> 00:15:03,584 prescribe a journey for the app that's tailored towards the -287 +293 00:15:03,584 --> 00:15:05,789 user. -288 -00:15:06,750 --> 00:15:08,160 -Dan Ott: That's really -interesting. Yeah, that, I +294 +00:15:06,750 --> 00:15:09,570 +Dan: That's really interesting. +Yeah, that-- I hadn't -289 -00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:09,570 -hadn't +295 +00:15:09,570 --> 00:15:12,030 +really thought about-- I mean, +they don't always-- like, -290 -00:15:09,570 --> 00:15:14,490 -really thought about, I mean, -they don't always like, there's +296 +00:15:12,030 --> 00:15:14,490 +there's -291 +297 00:15:14,490 --> 00:15:19,440 a lot of apps out there. But not -always connected, you know, to +always connected, you know, to, -292 +298 00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:20,955 like, to therapy, right? And -it's kind of okay, therapy is +it's kind of, "Okay, therapy is -293 +299 00:15:20,955 --> 00:15:22,320 either -294 +300 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,559 -not doing it for me or, you +not doing it for me," or, you know, something like that. And -295 +301 00:15:25,559 --> 00:15:28,889 people are kind of going on -their own to like, onto the App +their own-- to, like, onto the -296 +302 00:15:28,889 --> 00:15:29,700 -Store, you know? +app store, you know? -297 +303 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,909 -Rahat Chowdhury: I think CBT -definitely doesn't work for +Rahat: I think CBT definitely +doesn't work for -298 +304 00:15:31,909 --> 00:15:37,190 everybody. So, yeah, our goal is -just to like, while we're +just to, like, while we're -299 +305 00:15:37,190 --> 00:15:41,509 starting there, we just want to -figure out like, something easy +figure out, like, something easy -300 +306 00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:45,559 and simple for people to do that is helpful for them. And just -301 +307 00:15:45,559 --> 00:15:48,980 based on stuff that an actual therapist would recommend for -302 +308 00:15:48,980 --> 00:15:50,690 them to do on their own time. -303 +309 00:15:51,169 --> 00:15:51,919 -Cameron Bardell: Like Rahat said +Cameron: Like Rahat said earlier, there's tons of room in -304 -00:15:51,919 --> 00:15:52,669 -the +310 +00:15:51,919 --> 00:15:53,524 +the space, very-- like, very +individual responses. I mean, -305 -00:15:52,730 --> 00:15:55,129 -space very, like very individual -responses. I mean, that's the +311 +00:15:53,524 --> 00:15:55,129 +that's the -306 +312 00:15:55,129 --> 00:15:56,629 whole problem with mental health. It's the problem and -307 +313 00:15:56,629 --> 00:15:58,159 -the solution, I guess. Is that +the solution, I guess, is that it's so varied for an -308 +314 00:15:58,159 --> 00:15:59,689 individual, -309 +315 00:15:59,690 --> 00:16:02,600 for everyone. So yeah, there's just tons of different ways to -310 -00:16:02,629 --> 00:16:05,720 -build tools like this. And each -I know, part of figuring out how +316 +00:16:02,629 --> 00:16:04,174 +build tools like this. And +each-- I know, part of figuring -311 +317 +00:16:04,174 --> 00:16:05,719 +out how + +318 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,220 to control your own mental health is you might have to try -312 +319 00:16:07,220 --> 00:16:08,870 a lot of these different things, and most of them won't work. And -313 +320 00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:10,235 that's really hard and frustrating. But, you know, it's -314 -00:16:10,235 --> 00:16:11,600 -part of - -315 -00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:11,929 -the journey. +321 +00:16:10,235 --> 00:16:11,929 +part of the journey. -316 +322 00:16:14,190 --> 00:16:16,409 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, and I -think, you know, they're all +Bekah: Yeah. And I think, you +know, they're all -317 +323 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,799 valuable. Because everybody approaches it a different way. -318 +324 00:16:19,799 --> 00:16:23,309 And I think that technology is really changing the face of how -319 +325 00:16:23,309 --> 00:16:27,330 we view mental health. I mean, even openness to talking about -320 +326 00:16:27,330 --> 00:16:30,990 -it, and having these -conversations. I know like in +it and having these +conversations. I know, like, in -321 +327 00:16:30,990 --> 00:16:34,889 my mental health journey, it would not be nearly as -322 +328 00:16:34,889 --> 00:16:38,850 productive as it was if I didn't talk to other people who -323 +329 00:16:38,850 --> 00:16:43,049 I never would have met on, if I -weren't on Twitter, or online, +weren't on Twitter or online -324 +330 00:16:43,049 --> 00:16:46,830 -or whatever, you know? So +or whatever, you know? So, hearing other people's stories -325 +331 00:16:46,830 --> 00:16:51,210 kind of guided my journey and where I was going, but it looks -326 +332 00:16:51,210 --> 00:16:57,360 different for every person. And the more we learn about it, I -327 +333 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,049 think using technology also helps us better identify the -328 +334 00:17:01,049 --> 00:17:04,140 problems and the solutions that will work for different people. -329 +335 00:17:05,368 --> 00:17:06,868 -Cameron Bardell: And the good -thing about using technology for +Cameron: And the good thing +about using technology for -330 +336 00:17:06,868 --> 00:17:08,969 that kind of things, it's -impartial. Like a big part of +impartial. Like, a big part of -331 +337 00:17:08,969 --> 00:17:10,364 the reason why I built what I -built is that like uncompress +built is that, like, uncompress -332 +338 00:17:10,364 --> 00:17:11,759 new -333 +339 00:17:11,759 --> 00:17:14,489 -things and graphs and numbers. -And so I wanted to see like, +things, and graphs, and numbers. +And so, I wanted to see, like, -334 +340 00:17:15,538 --> 00:17:18,509 -kind of the true history of, of +kind of the true history of- of what I was feeling. And so I -335 +341 00:17:18,509 --> 00:17:20,638 looked, and when I was doing this research, I found out that -336 +342 00:17:20,699 --> 00:17:24,179 there's a lot of studies that show that if you ask people how -337 +343 00:17:24,179 --> 00:17:26,788 -they're feeling, at a certain -time, and on a scale of 1 to +they're feeling at a certain +time and on a scale of 1 to -338 +344 00:17:26,788 --> 00:17:29,818 -10 like I said, like say, they +10 like I said, like, say, they get a text and they have to say -339 +345 00:17:29,818 --> 00:17:32,308 -how do I feel right now? And, +"How do I feel right now?" And- and you do that multiple times, -340 +346 00:17:32,308 --> 00:17:33,448 -maybe throughout a day, or +maybe throughout a day or throughout the week, and then -341 +347 00:17:33,448 --> 00:17:34,588 you ask them -342 +348 00:17:34,588 --> 00:17:37,528 later on, looking back, how did you feel on average in total? -343 +349 00:17:38,128 --> 00:17:40,078 Those two numbers almost never lined up. How people say they -344 +350 00:17:40,078 --> 00:17:41,758 feel at the moment is not how they say they felt later -345 +351 00:17:41,758 --> 00:17:43,438 -(laugh). So +[laughs]. So, -346 +352 00:17:43,439 --> 00:17:45,868 -that was one of, of another one +that was one of- of another one reasons why I made this thing -347 +353 00:17:45,868 --> 00:17:48,388 -that you have to do. Well you -don't have to, you can do it +that you have to do. Well, you +don't have to-- you can do it -348 +354 00:17:48,388 --> 00:17:50,548 -as many times as you want. But +as many times as you want. But, you know, ideally twice a day, -349 +355 00:17:50,848 --> 00:17:54,179 and you do it right in the moment really quickly. It's just -350 +356 00:17:54,179 --> 00:17:56,189 really important to have that -kind of self-knowledge and be +kind of self-knowledge, and be -351 -00:17:56,189 --> 00:17:58,739 -able to look back and see things -trending up or down in different +357 +00:17:56,189 --> 00:17:57,464 +able to look back, and see +things trending up or down in -352 +358 +00:17:57,464 --> 00:17:58,739 +different + +359 00:17:58,739 --> 00:18:01,439 -directions. Like my app doesn't +directions. Like, my app doesn't offer any kind of therapy or any -353 +360 00:18:01,439 --> 00:18:04,648 information other than what you -give it. It's just, it's just a +give it. It's just- it's just a -354 +361 00:18:04,648 --> 00:18:05,338 personal record. -355 +362 00:18:07,858 --> 00:18:08,578 -Dan Ott: Yeah. That's really -cool. +Dan: Yeah. That's really cool. -356 +363 00:18:10,170 --> 00:18:13,049 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, I, -Cameron, I wanted to talk about +Bekah: Yeah, I-- Cameron, I +wanted to talk about -357 +364 00:18:13,049 --> 00:18:15,599 something that you said in Slack the other day, too. I -358 +365 00:18:15,599 --> 00:18:19,920 think it was somewhere near you is trying to help people feel -359 +366 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:24,509 connected during the time of the pandemic. And I'm always, you -360 +367 00:18:24,509 --> 00:18:28,170 know, found that community is the most important part of -361 +368 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:32,430 growing through mental health challenges. Can you just talk a -362 +369 00:18:32,430 --> 00:18:36,660 little bit about what they were -doing there? Because I found it +doing there? Because I found it, -363 +370 00:18:36,660 --> 00:18:41,369 -like, this really kind of -simple, but beautiful way of +like, this really kind of simple +but beautiful way of -364 +371 00:18:41,369 --> 00:18:42,450 connecting people. -365 +372 00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:44,609 -Cameron Bardell: Yeah, that was -a really interesting project. +Cameron: Yeah, that was a really +interesting project. -366 +373 00:18:44,609 --> 00:18:48,420 -Um, so it's called, I go to +So, it's called-- I go to University of Waterloo, which -367 +374 00:18:48,420 --> 00:18:52,529 -is, like common engineering and +is, like, common engineering and science-based school in Ontario. -368 +375 00:18:52,799 --> 00:18:55,680 -And so I just saw on Twitter +And so, I just saw on Twitter that a couple of engineering -369 +376 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,420 students put together this project, and it's basically a -370 +377 00:18:57,420 --> 00:19:01,049 heat map of the university campus and where people report -371 +378 00:19:01,049 --> 00:19:04,170 they've cried on campus, which sounds kind of funny. I think -372 +379 00:19:04,170 --> 00:19:06,359 it's really interesting because -their, their stated goal is just +their- their stated goal is just -373 +380 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,839 -to show people, like when you +to show people, like, when you get, you know, into kind of -374 +381 00:19:09,839 --> 00:19:11,789 worked up emotional state like that, I think it's really normal -375 +382 00:19:11,789 --> 00:19:13,680 to kind of want to hide -yourself, you know, you want to +yourself, you know? You want to -376 +383 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,470 -make, you want to go be alone +make-- you want to go, be alone somewhere, and you kind of -377 +384 00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:19,049 experienced that on your own. But, yeah, they just put -378 +385 00:19:19,049 --> 00:19:22,829 together this map just to show that, you know, if you've done -379 +386 00:19:22,829 --> 00:19:25,559 it, if you're struggling with it, then someone else's too. And -380 +387 00:19:25,559 --> 00:19:27,750 -they've got it's a heat map, -like I said. And then there's +they've got-- it's a heat map, +like I said. And then, there's -381 +388 00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:30,359 also just kind of some people did more personalized stories. -382 +389 00:19:30,750 --> 00:19:32,430 -So I thought that was a really +So, I thought, that was a really interesting project, especially -383 +390 00:19:32,430 --> 00:19:34,410 during a pandemic and we're all more isolated than ever. -384 +391 00:19:37,109 --> 00:19:38,459 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, that -idea of, of connecting people - -385 -00:19:38,459 --> 00:19:39,809 -is, +Bekah: Yeah, that idea of- of +connecting people -386 -00:19:39,839 --> 00:19:44,250 -is really important. I think +392 +00:19:38,459 --> 00:19:44,250 +is- is really important. I think that, you know, you do sometimes -387 +393 00:19:44,250 --> 00:19:46,019 get in that moment where you -think like, well, I'm the only +think, like, "Well, I'm the only -388 -00:19:46,019 --> 00:19:48,900 -one that feels this way. But -just like having a simple visual +394 +00:19:46,019 --> 00:19:47,459 +one that feels this way." But +just, like, having a simple -389 +395 +00:19:47,459 --> 00:19:48,899 +visual + +396 00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:52,710 -of like, oh, I cried, but look +of, like, "Oh, I cried. But look at somebody right over there did -390 +397 00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:53,160 -too. +too." -391 +398 00:19:53,940 --> 00:19:55,200 -Cameron Bardell: I'm looking at -the map right now and I'm like, +Cameron: I'm looking at the map +right now, and I'm like, -392 +399 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,660 -oh look, at the engineering +"Oh, look at the engineering building. I've had long nights -393 +400 00:19:57,660 --> 00:20:01,980 -there too. (laugh) +there too." [Laughs] -394 +401 00:20:02,009 --> 00:20:03,990 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, I -think that's really, really +Bekah: Yeah, I think that's +really, really -395 +402 00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:05,610 -great. Okay, so I would love, +great. Okay. So, I would love-- you talked a little bit about, -396 +403 00:20:05,610 --> 00:20:07,230 you -397 +404 00:20:07,230 --> 00:20:11,099 know, how you kind of got into -pursuing these. So it sounds +pursuing these. So, it sounds -398 +405 00:20:11,099 --> 00:20:14,519 -like for both of you, there's +like, for both of you, there's some type of personal component -399 +406 00:20:14,519 --> 00:20:18,509 -to this. And I'd love to know, +to this. And I'd love to know-- or if you are up for talking a -400 +407 00:20:18,509 --> 00:20:22,170 -little bit more about, like the +little bit more about, like, the inspiration behind this. And if -401 +408 00:20:22,170 --> 00:20:26,009 you learned anything new about -yourself, or, you know, what you +yourself or, you know, what you -402 +409 00:20:26,009 --> 00:20:30,059 -were doing through, through this +were doing through- through this journey, that would be awesome. -403 +410 00:20:31,410 --> 00:20:36,390 -Rahat Chowdhury: Yeah, I think, -for me, so the idea for this +Rahat: Yeah. I think, for me-- +so, the idea for this -404 +411 00:20:36,450 --> 00:20:38,399 -kind came out of like, some of +kind came out of, like, some of my own personal experiences. -405 +412 00:20:38,399 --> 00:20:40,348 Going to -406 +413 00:20:40,349 --> 00:20:44,519 therapy, trying to take care of my own mental health and all -407 -00:20:44,519 --> 00:20:52,859 +414 +00:20:44,519 --> 00:20:48,689 that. And, like, the one of the -main things was like, therapy is +main things was, like, therapy -408 +415 +00:20:48,689 --> 00:20:52,859 +is + +416 00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:57,480 helpful. But it's only 45 minutes, once or twice a month, -409 +417 00:20:57,990 --> 00:21:01,349 or every other week, or something like that. And there's -410 +418 00:21:01,349 --> 00:21:05,430 -all this other time in between, -where just like, I, I'm not +all this other time in between +where just, like, I-- I'm not -411 +419 00:21:05,430 --> 00:21:10,259 -sure, sometimes, like, I guess, +sure sometimes, like, I guess, how to take care of myself for, -412 +420 00:21:10,349 --> 00:21:15,990 you know, try to, I guess, make my mental health better in some -413 +421 00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:19,980 way. So that was like a large part of the conversation that I -414 +422 00:21:19,980 --> 00:21:22,980 was having with my therapist. -And she would give me like +And she would give me, like, -415 -00:21:22,980 --> 00:21:27,630 -different prompts and stuff. And -like, sort of like CBT based +423 +00:21:22,980 --> 00:21:25,305 +different prompts and stuff. +And, like, sort of like CBT -416 +424 +00:21:25,305 --> 00:21:27,630 +based + +425 00:21:27,630 --> 00:21:32,549 things to try out on my own is writing stuff out. And it was -417 +426 00:21:32,549 --> 00:21:37,049 pretty helpful. And the thing that I realized was really -418 +427 00:21:37,049 --> 00:21:40,380 -helpful for me was like, when I -in those moments, when I was +helpful for me was, like, when +I-- in those moments, when I was -419 +428 00:21:40,380 --> 00:21:44,400 -able to remember back to like, a -positive thing, kind of related +able to remember back to, like, +a positive thing—kind of related -420 +429 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:50,279 to whatever I was doing. Like, -if, like, if I was having a +if- like, if I was having a -421 +430 00:21:50,309 --> 00:21:54,420 -crap day at work, but then +crap day at work. But then, thinking about another time -422 +431 00:21:54,420 --> 00:21:57,180 where, you know, something went right at work, that was -423 +432 00:21:57,180 --> 00:22:00,029 -sometimes pretty helpful. So +sometimes pretty helpful. So, that was kind of like a lot of -424 +433 00:22:00,029 --> 00:22:03,839 -the basis for the app itself of +the basis for the app itself of, like, having some positive -425 +434 00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:05,700 reinforcement in those negative times. -426 +435 00:22:06,809 --> 00:22:08,519 -Dan Ott: Yeah, that's really -cool. I have, I also have +Dan: Yeah, that's really cool. I +have-- I also have trouble -427 -00:22:08,519 --> 00:22:10,229 -trouble +436 +00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:11,639 +with it. The connection between, +like, different appointments -428 -00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:13,049 -with it. The connection between -like, different appointments and +437 +00:22:11,639 --> 00:22:13,048 +and- -429 +438 00:22:13,049 --> 00:22:15,420 and just sort of everything, it seems to make sense, you know, -430 +439 00:22:15,420 --> 00:22:19,529 when you walk out of an appointment, and then a week -431 +440 00:22:19,529 --> 00:22:21,209 -later, you're like, I don't -(laugh), I don't know. I don't +later, you're like, "I don't-- +[laughs] I don't know. I don't -432 +441 00:22:21,209 --> 00:22:22,889 know what -433 +442 00:22:22,890 --> 00:22:24,945 -I'm doing. I don't know, you -know? Like, all the, all that +I'm doing. I don't know," you +know? Like, all the-- all that -434 +443 00:22:24,945 --> 00:22:27,000 stuff. I -435 +444 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,660 -guess a place where like +guess a place where, like, technology can, you know, like, -436 +445 00:22:30,660 --> 00:22:33,480 -really shine? I think if you +really shine, I think, if, you know, if applied correctly. -437 +446 00:22:35,220 --> 00:22:36,299 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Cameron, I -don't know, if you want to +Bekah: Cameron, I don't know if +you want to -438 +447 00:22:36,299 --> 00:22:37,710 -share. You don't have to, but +share. You don't have to, but-- -439 +448 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,089 -Cameron Bardell: Yeah, no, -totally. Yeah, part of my like, +Cameron: Yeah, no, totally. +Yeah, part of my, like, -440 +449 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,369 journey with my personal mental health, I guess, I started -441 +450 00:22:42,369 --> 00:22:46,059 struggling with anxiety in my -pre early teens, and kind of +pre early teens and kind of -442 +451 00:22:46,059 --> 00:22:51,039 kept them to myself for a long -time. So like, I feel like most +time. So, like, I feel like most -443 +452 00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:54,400 of the last several years for me has been a process of opening -444 +453 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,859 it up to slowly, like, wider and -wider circle of people. So it +wider circle of people. So, it -445 +454 00:22:56,859 --> 00:22:59,140 started eventually, like, you know, talking to my parents, and -446 -00:22:59,140 --> 00:23:02,140 +455 +00:22:59,140 --> 00:23:00,640 then they helped me a lot. And -then you know, from there, I was +then, you know, from there, I -447 +456 +00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,140 +was + +457 00:23:02,140 --> 00:23:03,759 -like, okay, that worked out -pretty well. And then I, you +like, "Okay, that worked out +pretty well." And then I, you -448 +458 00:23:03,759 --> 00:23:05,650 know, started talking to a doctor, and then I do even more. -449 +459 00:23:06,009 --> 00:23:07,839 -I said, wow. This seems to be a -trend (laugh) if there's +I said, "Wow. This seems to be a +trend [laughs] if there's -450 +460 00:23:07,839 --> 00:23:09,669 -anything. So then, you know, you +anything." So then, you know, +you -451 -00:23:09,670 --> 00:23:12,250 +461 +00:23:09,670 --> 00:23:10,960 start opening up to a wider -circle of people. So my friends, +circle of people. So, my -452 +462 +00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,250 +friends, + +463 00:23:12,849 --> 00:23:15,250 -you know, you guys eventually. -And now here I am on a podcast +you know, you guys, eventually. +And now here I am, on a podcast, -453 +464 00:23:15,250 --> 00:23:17,680 talking about it. That's been a really important part of the -454 +465 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,650 process for me. We have a Slack -channel in, in Virtual Coffee, +channel in- in Virtual Coffee, -455 +466 00:23:20,650 --> 00:23:23,740 where we talk about these sorts of things. And, you know, people -456 +467 00:23:23,740 --> 00:23:26,079 have been, you know, pretty open. And, you know, not -457 +468 00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:26,979 -everyone has to be open, and -just something that happens to +everyone has to be open and just +something that happens to -458 +469 00:23:26,979 --> 00:23:27,879 help -459 +470 00:23:27,970 --> 00:23:32,410 me personally. I would never say -that, like, I don't even know +that, like-- I don't even know -460 +471 00:23:32,410 --> 00:23:35,440 how to phrase this. Like, I would never tell anyone that -461 +472 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,569 they should go and talk about -their experiences, because it +their experiences because it -462 +473 00:23:37,569 --> 00:23:39,099 will definitely help, you know, -it might not (laugh). Depends. +it might not [laughs]. Depends. -463 +474 00:23:39,099 --> 00:23:40,629 It just -464 +475 00:23:40,750 --> 00:23:42,024 happened to help out for me. And I only came to that realization -465 -00:23:42,024 --> 00:23:43,298 -after - -466 -00:23:43,299 --> 00:23:46,839 -like several years of -struggling. So yeah. That's, +476 +00:23:42,024 --> 00:23:46,839 +after, like, several years of +struggling. So yeah. That's- -467 +477 00:23:47,799 --> 00:23:49,779 that's kind of been an ongoing thing for me. -468 +478 00:23:50,940 --> 00:23:53,369 -Dan Ott: Yeah, that's actually -been a trend we've noticed with +Dan: Yeah, that's actually been +a trend we've noticed with -469 +479 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,559 Virtual Coffee. And not just with mental health, although -470 +480 00:23:55,559 --> 00:23:59,849 -definitely with mental health, -and even just being becoming a +definitely with mental health. +And even just being-- becoming a -471 +481 00:23:59,849 --> 00:24:04,619 -developer or learning, finding, +developer or learning, finding-- you know, finding a job, all of -472 -00:24:04,619 --> 00:24:08,640 -these things that, over and over -again, we have people that come +482 +00:24:04,619 --> 00:24:06,629 +these things that-- over and +over again, we have people that -473 +483 +00:24:06,629 --> 00:24:08,639 +come + +484 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,519 -in or just feel alone, you know, -feel like they're the only +in or just feel alone, you know? +Feel like they're the only -474 +485 00:24:11,519 --> 00:24:13,650 ones are feeling something's wrong with them that because -475 +486 00:24:13,950 --> 00:24:17,400 they are struggling finding a job or struggling learning, you -476 +487 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,490 know? Anything. Learning anything in tech and is or -477 +488 00:24:20,490 --> 00:24:22,080 struggling with, you know, mental health things and finding -478 +489 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:23,670 other -479 +490 00:24:23,670 --> 00:24:25,410 people that are also, you know, going through a lot of the same -480 +491 00:24:25,410 --> 00:24:27,150 things. -481 +492 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,490 -Cameron Bardell: And I would -encourage you to say like, you +Cameron: And I would encourage +you to say like, "You -482 +493 00:24:27,150 --> 00:24:31,289 don't even have to say anything -483 +494 00:24:29,490 --> 00:24:33,569 -when you're in these spaces. -Like you can just go and be a +when you're in these spaces." +Like, "You can just go and be a -484 +495 00:24:31,289 --> 00:24:35,549 lurker until you feel -comfortable. I mean, you'll +comfortable." I mean, you'll -485 +496 00:24:33,569 --> 00:24:37,500 never feel comfortable sharing yourself that you can go and see -486 +497 00:24:35,549 --> 00:24:39,794 what other people are saying, -you know, maybe that's something +you know? Maybe that's something -487 +498 00:24:39,794 --> 00:24:44,039 that -488 +499 00:24:38,009 --> 00:24:42,149 -could help. Like, that includes +could help. Like, that includes, like, you know, mental health -489 +500 00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:46,289 stuff in -490 +501 00:24:44,039 --> 00:24:48,630 -the job search and I know +the job search. And I know Bekah's been and several other -491 +502 00:24:46,289 --> 00:24:50,549 people in the Slack've been -leading the way on like a +leading the way on, like, a -492 +503 00:24:48,630 --> 00:24:53,039 neuro-diversity channel, which is really great to see. So all -493 +504 00:24:50,549 --> 00:24:54,750 -those kinds of things. You can, +those kinds of things. You can- you can reach out and find these -494 +505 00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:57,420 -spaces and you don't have to be +spaces, and you don't have to be sure if it's right for you to -495 -00:24:54,750 --> 00:24:59,880 +506 +00:24:54,750 --> 00:24:57,315 share. You can definitely kind -of hang out for a while and it's +of hang out for a while, and -496 +507 +00:24:57,315 --> 00:24:59,880 +it's + +508 00:24:57,420 --> 00:24:59,805 -take your bearings, and maybe +take your bearings. And maybe decided that it's not for you, -497 +509 00:24:59,805 --> 00:25:02,190 and -498 +510 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,569 -that's okay, too. But yeah, you +that's okay, too. But, yeah, you don't have to feel pressured to -499 +511 00:25:02,190 --> 00:25:03,569 say anything. -500 +512 00:25:04,559 --> 00:25:07,349 -Rahat Chowdhury: Yeah, I think a -pretty good other benefit that +Rahat: Yeah. I think, a pretty +good other benefit that -501 +513 00:25:07,349 --> 00:25:09,599 -comes from that is like, just +comes from that is, like, just knowing that you're not alone, -502 +514 00:25:09,599 --> 00:25:11,730 sort of. There's other people kind of like going through -503 +515 00:25:11,730 --> 00:25:15,180 -similar stuff. I think there's -definitely just like powering +similar stuff. I think, there's +definitely just, like, powering -504 +516 00:25:15,180 --> 00:25:20,730 -as like not feeling as alone. +as, like, not feeling as alone. Like, for me, especially when I -505 +517 00:25:20,730 --> 00:25:23,220 start doing talks on it, and kind of like openly talking -506 +518 00:25:23,220 --> 00:25:26,759 -about it, so like, other people -responding by like, hey, +about it. So, like, other people +responding by, like, "Hey, -507 +519 00:25:27,089 --> 00:25:28,874 -I, you know, I go through this -kind of similar stuff, too. It's +I," you know, "I go through this +kind of similar stuff, too." -508 +520 00:25:28,874 --> 00:25:30,659 -just +It's just, -509 +521 00:25:30,660 --> 00:25:36,269 -like, it was kind, maybe not, I -don't know, good is the right +like, it was kind-- maybe not-- +I don't know. Good is the right -510 +522 00:25:36,329 --> 00:25:40,680 -word to say, but more like just, -it doesn't feel as bad +word to say, but more like, +just, it doesn't feel as bad -511 +523 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,619 going through it, knowing that you're not going through it by -512 +524 00:25:43,619 --> 00:25:44,220 yourself. -513 +525 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:46,049 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: For sure. - -514 -00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:46,960 -Cameron Bardell: It kinda like, -it kind of shows how like, the +Bekah: For sure. -515 -00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:47,920 -progress +526 +00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,920 +Cameron: It kinda like-- it kind +of shows how, like, the progress -516 +527 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,309 -isn't linear, either. Like it's +isn't linear either. Like, it's normal and honestly in some -517 +528 00:25:51,309 --> 00:25:54,039 ways, kind of important to have -back slides. And then, and then +back slides. And then- and then -518 +529 00:25:54,039 --> 00:25:56,170 show yourself that you can get through them, you know? If you -519 +530 00:25:56,170 --> 00:25:57,970 feel like you've made progress, and then you revert back for a -520 +531 00:25:57,970 --> 00:25:59,470 little bit, that's a normal part of the process. And you -521 +532 00:25:59,470 --> 00:26:01,690 -shouldn't, you know, something +shouldn't-- you know, something that I like to say is you -522 +533 00:26:01,690 --> 00:26:03,940 shouldn't feel bad about feeling bad. Like, you don't have to -523 +534 00:26:03,940 --> 00:26:05,950 beat yourself up over your lack of progress over thing, you -524 +535 00:26:05,950 --> 00:26:07,960 know, any of these -525 +536 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:13,329 -areas. So again, it's, the -recovery, like showing you that +areas. So again, it's-- the +recovery, like, showing you that -526 +537 00:26:13,329 --> 00:26:15,309 -you have, showing yourself that +you have-- showing yourself that you have the strength to recover -527 +538 00:26:15,309 --> 00:26:17,079 from something like that is really important as well. -528 -00:26:18,019 --> 00:26:20,119 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, I, -um, so my journey into tech - -529 -00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,219 -started +539 +00:26:18,019 --> 00:26:22,220 +Bekah: Yeah, I-- so, my journey +into tech started -530 +540 00:26:22,220 --> 00:26:25,009 with a trauma that I went through. And so I talked a lot -531 +541 00:26:25,009 --> 00:26:29,990 -about it about having anxiety, -depression, PTSD, but like one +about it. About having anxiety, +depression, PTSD, but, like, one -532 +542 00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:33,559 of the most pivotal moments for -me was when I was in bootcamp, +me was when I was in bootcamp. -533 +543 00:26:33,589 --> 00:26:39,230 -my educational coach, who was -assigned to me and she said, +My educational coach—who was +assigned to me—and she said, -534 -00:26:39,230 --> 00:26:42,380 -hey, can I share a story with -you? I said, sure. And she said, +544 +00:26:39,230 --> 00:26:40,805 +"Hey, can I share a story with +you?" I said, "Sure." And she -535 +545 +00:26:40,805 --> 00:26:42,380 +said, + +546 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,309 -I went through trauma, too. I -was run over by a semi truck. +"I went through trauma too. I +was run over by a semi truck." -536 +547 00:26:46,670 --> 00:26:49,099 And that was the first person I had ever talked to about -537 +548 00:26:49,099 --> 00:26:53,089 trauma. And our traumas were very, very different. But all of -538 +549 00:26:53,089 --> 00:26:55,970 the words that she were saying, they were the words that had -539 +550 00:26:55,970 --> 00:26:59,599 gone through my head so many times. And I finally realized -540 +551 00:26:59,599 --> 00:27:04,519 -that I wasn't alone. So I had -spent so much time alone in, in +that I wasn't alone. So, I had +spent so much time alone in- in -541 +552 00:27:04,519 --> 00:27:09,079 -that, that, that just moment of -connection was enough to like, +that- that- that just moment of +connection was enough to, like, -542 +553 00:27:09,410 --> 00:27:14,269 give me hope to keep going. And -that was, my trauma was four +that was-- my trauma was four -543 +554 00:27:14,269 --> 00:27:18,920 years ago. And I gave a talk about it the other day. Told the -544 +555 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,759 story many, many times. And I -just started crying and I don't +just started crying, and I don't -545 +556 00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:24,709 -ever cry. So it was like on a +ever cry. So, it was like on a screen full of people, just -546 +557 00:27:24,709 --> 00:27:26,659 crying. -547 +558 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,509 -Couldn't get it, couldn't get it +Couldn't get it- couldn't get it together. And it was that -548 +559 00:27:29,509 --> 00:27:32,119 -feeling of like being super -frustrated at myself. Like why, +feeling of, like, being super +frustrated at myself. Like, why- -549 +560 00:27:32,150 --> 00:27:33,979 why is this happening now? And the talk, that's recorded. -550 +561 00:27:33,979 --> 00:27:35,808 That's -551 +562 00:27:35,809 --> 00:27:37,879 gonna be on YouTube, right? And -so like I wrote a little post on +so, like, I wrote a little post -552 +563 00:27:37,879 --> 00:27:39,949 -my +on my -553 +564 00:27:39,950 --> 00:27:43,819 trauma blog about it. And somebody messaged me, and she -554 -00:27:43,819 --> 00:27:47,900 -said, this is what I needed to -hear in this moment, because she +565 +00:27:43,819 --> 00:27:45,859 +said, "This is what I needed to +hear in this moment." Because -555 +566 +00:27:45,859 --> 00:27:47,899 +she + +567 00:27:47,900 --> 00:27:51,650 had also gone through a trauma in a couple of years ago. And -556 -00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,789 -suddenly, she was like, hit with -that moment, too. And just felt +568 +00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,734 +suddenly, she was, like, hit +with that moment, too. And just -557 +569 +00:27:53,734 --> 00:27:55,788 +felt + +570 00:27:55,789 --> 00:27:59,329 like very frustrated with -herself. And so it exactly what +herself. And so, it exactly what -558 +571 00:27:59,329 --> 00:28:02,390 -you're saying, Cameron. It's +you're saying, Cameron. It's, like, it's not linear, right? -559 +572 00:28:02,390 --> 00:28:07,759 Like, there's gonna be waves and -somebody once said, like, it +somebody once said like, "It -560 -00:28:07,910 --> 00:28:11,420 +573 +00:28:07,910 --> 00:28:09,665 doesn't go away, but it gets -different. And I think that, you +different." And I think that, -561 +574 +00:28:09,665 --> 00:28:11,420 +you + +575 00:28:11,420 --> 00:28:14,660 know, that might be specific to trauma. But, you know, we find -562 +576 00:28:14,660 --> 00:28:17,690 these moments in our lives, -where we're like, man, I really +where we're like, "Man, I really -563 +577 00:28:17,690 --> 00:28:21,410 -thought that I was passed this. +thought that I was passed this." And that can be hard. But when -564 +578 00:28:21,559 --> 00:28:24,529 you connect with somebody else, and you can kind of talk about -565 +579 00:28:24,529 --> 00:28:27,440 it together, then you realize, -like, okay, you know, like, we +like, "Okay," you know, like, -566 +580 00:28:27,470 --> 00:28:28,970 -we've got this together. +"We-- we've got this together." -567 +581 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:32,759 -Cameron Bardell: It can be -helpful, too, if you've been, +Cameron: It can be helpful too +if you've been—like -568 +582 00:28:32,759 --> 00:28:34,334 -like you said, you've kind of, -you hear your own words in your +you said—you've kind of-- you +hear your own words in your -569 +583 00:28:34,334 --> 00:28:35,909 head so much. And -570 +584 00:28:35,910 --> 00:28:38,519 maybe you don't know if it makes sense. Because these things can -571 +585 00:28:38,519 --> 00:28:40,049 often be really hard to put words to, because it's not -572 +586 00:28:40,049 --> 00:28:43,859 -something that necessarily has -like a physical analogy for +something that necessarily has, +like, a physical analogy for -573 +587 00:28:43,859 --> 00:28:46,140 -everyone. So if you can, like -kind of, say these words out +everyone. So, if you can, like, +kind of say these words out -574 -00:28:46,140 --> 00:28:48,390 -loud, and someone says, yeah, -no, that makes sense. That makes +588 +00:28:46,140 --> 00:28:47,265 +loud, and someone says, "Yeah, +no, that makes sense." That -575 +589 +00:28:47,265 --> 00:28:48,390 +makes + +590 00:28:48,390 --> 00:28:51,210 you feel a little less, I don't -know, lost sometimes. So. +know, lost sometimes. So-- -576 +591 00:28:54,118 --> 00:28:55,979 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, also, -I think, you know, if we're +Bekah: Yeah. Also, I think, you +know, if we're -577 +592 00:28:55,979 --> 00:29:00,898 talking technology too, -sometimes, sometimes you can +sometimes- sometimes you can -578 +593 00:29:00,929 --> 00:29:05,338 deny things to yourself, right? But if the data is in front of -579 +594 00:29:05,338 --> 00:29:09,028 -you, like, okay, I've been +you, like, "Okay, I've been tracking my mood for this long, -580 +595 00:29:09,028 --> 00:29:12,268 -for the last, however much time. -Maybe, maybe I'm not being +for the last however much time. +Maybe- maybe I'm not being -581 +596 00:29:12,268 --> 00:29:15,508 honest -582 +597 00:29:15,509 --> 00:29:21,388 with myself about how bad I feel -right now. Or good. Maybe you +right now--" or good. Maybe you -583 +598 00:29:21,388 --> 00:29:22,169 -feel good, hopefully. (laugh) +feel good, hopefully [laughs]. -584 +599 00:29:24,670 --> 00:29:27,549 -Cameron Bardell: People aren't -good at, um like, I don't know, +Cameron: People aren't good at, +like-- I don't know. -585 +600 00:29:27,579 --> 00:29:29,230 -maybe you're not, it's not that +Maybe you're not-- it's not that you're not being honest with -586 +601 00:29:29,230 --> 00:29:30,100 yourself. People just aren't really that good at -587 +602 00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:30,970 self-evaluation. -588 +603 00:29:30,970 --> 00:29:35,589 It's just how human brains work. -So it's not, it's not +So it's not- it's not -589 +604 00:29:35,589 --> 00:29:38,259 -necessarily like intentional or -otherwise, like deluding +necessarily, like, intentional +or otherwise, like, deluding -590 +605 00:29:38,259 --> 00:29:40,420 -yourself or lying to yourself, +yourself, or lying to yourself, or whatever you want to call it. -591 +606 00:29:41,380 --> 00:29:42,759 It's just not an easy, normal thing to do. -592 +607 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:47,160 -Dan Ott: Mm hmm. Yeah. And that -kind of circles back to some of +Dan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that kind +of circles back to some of -593 +608 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,000 the cognitive behavioral therapy -stuff is your brain like, will +stuff is your brain, like, will -594 +609 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,610 actually actively lie to you -about al of things. Is, yeah, +about al of things. Is-- yeah, -595 +610 00:29:53,610 --> 00:29:56,220 well, -596 +611 00:29:56,579 --> 00:29:58,769 like we said at the beginning, we could probably all talk about -597 +612 00:29:58,769 --> 00:30:01,649 -this for (laugh) a long, long, -long time. Kind of moving, +this for [laughs] a long, long, +long time. Kind of moving- -598 +613 00:30:01,649 --> 00:30:04,529 moving on. -599 +614 00:30:05,549 --> 00:30:08,910 -So you're both pretty busy, you +So, you're both pretty busy. You have a lot of side projects -600 +615 00:30:08,910 --> 00:30:12,690 going on and along with, you -know, career stuff and family +know, career stuff, and family -601 +616 00:30:12,690 --> 00:30:17,910 -stuff, school. So we were +stuff, school. So, we were wondering how each of you sort -602 +617 00:30:17,910 --> 00:30:19,665 -of balance your, your own mental -health, like with, with work, +of balance your- your own mental +health, like, with- with work, -603 -00:30:19,665 --> 00:30:21,420 -and - -604 -00:30:21,420 --> 00:30:22,560 -with side projects, and +618 +00:30:19,665 --> 00:30:22,560 +and with side projects, and everything else that goes along -605 +619 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:23,700 with being, -606 +620 00:30:23,730 --> 00:30:28,829 you know, a human in the, you know, in 2021. Rahat, we'll -607 +621 00:30:28,829 --> 00:30:31,529 -start with you. At a talk, one -of our lightning talks last +start with you. At a talk—one of +our lightning talks last -608 +622 00:30:31,529 --> 00:30:35,220 -year was sort of about some of -this. So, I start with you, and +year—was sort of about some of +this. So, I start with you and -609 +623 00:30:35,609 --> 00:30:36,480 see what your thoughts were. -610 +624 00:30:36,809 --> 00:30:41,069 -Rahat Chowdhury: Yeah, for me, I -tend to forget a lot of times to +Rahat: Yeah. For me, I tend to +forget a lot of times to -611 +625 00:30:41,069 --> 00:30:44,670 -really stop and just like, not +really stop and just, like, not work on all the different things -612 +626 00:30:44,670 --> 00:30:50,759 I'm working on for a little bit. -So the way I've recently been +So, the way I've recently been -613 -00:30:50,759 --> 00:30:56,369 -managing it is just like, trying -to remember that, you know, I +627 +00:30:50,759 --> 00:30:53,564 +managing it is just, like, +trying to remember that, you -614 +628 +00:30:53,564 --> 00:30:56,369 +know, I + +629 00:30:56,369 --> 00:30:59,910 have a daughter now. I need some time for her, I need some time -615 +630 00:30:59,910 --> 00:31:02,160 for myself, I need some time to -just like unwind from +just, like, unwind from -616 +631 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,529 -everything, because there is a +everything because there is a ton of stuff I'm doing right -617 -00:31:04,529 --> 00:31:12,690 -now. And it took, it takes a lot -of work for me to like, get past +632 +00:31:04,529 --> 00:31:08,609 +now. And it took-- it takes a +lot of work for me to, like, get -618 +633 +00:31:08,609 --> 00:31:12,689 +past + +634 00:31:12,690 --> 00:31:18,119 my own, I guess, self-imposed deadlines on things that don't -619 +635 00:31:18,119 --> 00:31:24,900 actually mean anything. And the way I had sort of tried to -620 -00:31:26,609 --> 00:31:29,579 +636 +00:31:26,609 --> 00:31:28,094 accept a little exercise I do -just in my head is like pretend +just in my head is, like, -621 -00:31:29,579 --> 00:31:32,279 -that like I'm a stakeholder in a -meeting, and I'm like pushing +637 +00:31:28,094 --> 00:31:29,579 +pretend -622 -00:31:32,279 --> 00:31:34,710 -the state back a little bit -like, hey, we don't need it till +638 +00:31:29,579 --> 00:31:30,929 +that, like, I'm a stakeholder in +a meeting, and I'm, like, -623 -00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:37,050 -this time. That's kinda, that's -something that kinda works for +639 +00:31:30,929 --> 00:31:32,279 +pushing -624 +640 +00:31:32,279 --> 00:31:33,494 +the state back a little bit, +like, "Hey, we don't need it + +641 +00:31:33,494 --> 00:31:34,709 +till + +642 +00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:35,880 +this time." That's kinda-- +that's something that kinda + +643 +00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,050 +works for + +644 00:31:37,050 --> 00:31:39,390 me a little -625 +645 00:31:39,390 --> 00:31:43,890 bit. And then those moments, -I'll try to let go and like +I'll try to let go and, like, -626 +646 00:31:43,890 --> 00:31:49,140 just take a walk or play some video games, anything like -627 +647 00:31:49,140 --> 00:31:53,250 that, and just try to get away from what I'm working on. And -628 -00:31:53,250 --> 00:31:56,609 -just like, also trying to remind -myself that if I wanna work +648 +00:31:53,250 --> 00:31:54,929 +just, like, also trying to +remind myself that if I wanna -629 +649 +00:31:54,929 --> 00:31:56,608 +work + +650 00:31:56,609 --> 00:32:00,059 quickly through things, then I need to take a break. Because -630 +651 00:32:00,059 --> 00:32:03,480 -I've like gone through burnout +I've, like, gone through burnout before, like, not being able to -631 +652 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,950 do something for a couple months. And just kind of like -632 +653 00:32:07,950 --> 00:32:09,945 getting it down in my head and -it was like, if I don't stop +it was like, "If I don't stop -633 +654 00:32:09,945 --> 00:32:11,940 -sometimes, and just +sometimes, and just, -634 +655 00:32:11,940 --> 00:32:16,920 -like take a breath, I won't be +like, take a breath, I won't be able to continue doing as much -635 +656 00:32:17,009 --> 00:32:18,329 -stuff as I hope to do. +stuff as I hope to do." -636 +657 00:32:19,380 --> 00:32:24,119 -Dan Ott: Yeah, totally. I think -that's, I mean, we've sort of +Dan: Yeah, totally. I think +that's-- I mean, we've sort of -637 -00:32:24,119 --> 00:32:27,240 +658 +00:32:24,119 --> 00:32:25,679 talked about this before, but I -think that, that's like a great, +think that-- that's, like, a -638 +659 +00:32:25,679 --> 00:32:27,239 +great- + +660 00:32:28,349 --> 00:32:32,789 -a great thing to do consciously -is sort of try to jam, like not +a great thing to do consciously, +is sort of try to jam, like, not -639 +661 00:32:32,819 --> 00:32:34,680 jam those breaks into your -schedule, but like actually +schedule. But, like, actually -640 +662 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,259 schedule, you know, breaks in and make sure you're taking care -641 +663 00:32:37,259 --> 00:32:40,619 of them. Cameron, do you have -anything like, I don't know, +anything, like-- I don't know, -642 +664 00:32:41,130 --> 00:32:42,525 -specific thing you do, to try -to, you know, take care of +specific thing you do to try to, +you know, take care of -643 +665 00:32:42,525 --> 00:32:43,920 yourself -644 +666 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,464 or, you know, getting everything done. And, you know, side -645 +667 00:32:45,464 --> 00:32:47,008 project thing and all that? -646 +668 00:32:48,359 --> 00:32:49,019 -Cameron Bardell: Yeah, -[unintelligible], I guess. I'm +Cameron: Yeah, [unintelligible], +I guess. I'm -647 +669 00:32:49,019 --> 00:32:49,679 coming out with a bit of a -648 +670 00:32:49,829 --> 00:32:51,779 -period where I've like been +period where I've, like, been bouncing around on a lot of -649 +671 00:32:51,779 --> 00:32:54,359 different things. Because about a year ago, for a long time, I -650 +672 00:32:54,359 --> 00:32:56,880 was kind of torn between whether -I would do like science and +I would do, like, science and -651 +673 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,220 research or just go into tech. And about a year ago, I finally -652 +674 00:32:59,220 --> 00:33:03,150 -decided, okay, tech can be the -thing. So at that point, I +decided, "Okay, tech can be the +thing." So at that point, I -653 -00:33:03,150 --> 00:33:05,519 -started doing like a bunch more -freelancing and did a couple +675 +00:33:03,150 --> 00:33:04,334 +started doing, like, a bunch +more freelancing, and did a -654 -00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:07,710 -internships and side projects -and stuff, so it was like, okay. +676 +00:33:04,334 --> 00:33:05,518 +couple -655 +677 +00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:06,614 +internships, and side projects +and stuff. So it was like, + +678 +00:33:06,614 --> 00:33:07,709 +"Okay. + +679 00:33:07,740 --> 00:33:09,120 Here's what I need to do again -to get into the tech industry. +to get into the tech industry." -656 +680 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:10,500 And -657 +681 00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:12,599 then, you know, a couple weeks ago, I just got hired full time. -658 +682 00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:15,690 -So then that period of like +So then, that period of, like, doing a whole bunch of stuff and -659 +683 00:33:15,690 --> 00:33:18,059 bouncing around is kind of -settling down now. So in back, +settling down now. So, in back, -660 +684 00:33:18,059 --> 00:33:20,099 it's like reevaluating and -focusing on, okay, here's the +focusing on, "Okay, here's the -661 +685 00:33:20,099 --> 00:33:23,309 -main things I need to do. Like, -I need to do like this much. +main things I need to do." Like, +"I need to do, like, this much. -662 +686 00:33:23,339 --> 00:33:25,799 Well, I need to work, you know, -40 hours a week, and I need to +40 hours a week. And I need to -663 +687 00:33:25,799 --> 00:33:29,579 do this much school, and then I -also need to exercise. So I've +also need to exercise." So I've -664 +688 00:33:29,579 --> 00:33:32,940 been coming out of kind of a chaotic period and settling into -665 +689 00:33:32,940 --> 00:33:34,710 more of a routine the past few weeks, which isn't really nice -666 +690 00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:36,480 -(laugh). +[laughs]. -667 +691 00:33:37,529 --> 00:33:40,019 -Yeah, but I still think that, +Yeah. But I still think that that period of working hard was -668 +692 00:33:40,019 --> 00:33:41,534 -important, because I ended up, +important because I ended up, you know, in a place that I -669 +693 00:33:41,534 --> 00:33:43,049 really wanted to -670 +694 00:33:43,049 --> 00:33:45,509 get. And yeah, it was hard for a while. But here I am. -671 +695 00:33:46,798 --> 00:33:49,499 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I think, -too, when you can see, this +Bekah: I think, too, when you +can see, this -672 +696 00:33:49,499 --> 00:33:53,308 -isn't a forever thing, there, -this is going to end then it +isn't a forever thing. There-- +this is going to end, then it -673 +697 00:33:53,308 --> 00:33:56,638 makes it feel a little bit more doable. But there's also this, -674 +698 00:33:57,239 --> 00:34:00,479 -like natural tendency in tech. I -think tech just moves so +like, natural tendency in tech. +I think tech just moves so -675 +699 00:34:00,479 --> 00:34:04,528 quickly, right? That people feel -this, this need to hustle all +this- this need to hustle all -676 +700 00:34:04,528 --> 00:34:07,558 -the time. And that's like, I +the time. And that's, like-- I can't stand that word, hustle. -677 +701 00:34:09,628 --> 00:34:13,528 -But like to continue to keep +But, like, to continue to keep doing stuff all the time. And I -678 +702 00:34:13,528 --> 00:34:17,938 find that as much as I don't like that word, I have a really -679 +703 00:34:17,938 --> 00:34:21,599 hard time turning off my brain when there's always something to -680 +704 00:34:21,599 --> 00:34:24,163 be done because, you know, like, tech moves fast and so do -681 -00:34:24,163 --> 00:34:26,727 -people. - -682 -00:34:26,728 --> 00:34:27,239 -So, (laugh) - -683 -00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:29,640 -Cameron Bardell: Yeah. I really -kind of like, it's kind of a +705 +00:34:24,163 --> 00:34:27,239 +people. So [laughs]-- -684 -00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:30,780 -strong +706 +00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:30,780 +Cameron: Yeah. I really kind of +like-- it's kind of a strong -685 +707 00:34:30,780 --> 00:34:33,960 word, but I kind of detest that -part of Twitter's like, I don't +part of Twitter's, like, I don't -686 +708 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,929 -know. Silicon Valley, like VC -hustle porn kind of like, if +know. Silicon Valley-- like, VC +hustle porn kind of like—if -687 +709 00:34:36,929 --> 00:34:38,744 you're not working you're losing money. I don't know. Everyone -688 +710 00:34:38,744 --> 00:34:40,559 should be the -689 +711 00:34:40,559 --> 00:34:42,570 founder kind of thing which is not true. Not everyone should be -690 +712 00:34:42,570 --> 00:34:46,064 a founder. Being a founder kind -of sucks (laugh). Yeah. And, +of sucks [laughs]. Yeah. And-- -691 +713 00:34:46,064 --> 00:34:49,558 yeah, I don't -692 -00:34:49,559 --> 00:34:54,030 -know. I just like, what you said -about having a deadline was, +714 +00:34:49,559 --> 00:34:51,794 +know. I just-- like, what you +said about having a deadline -693 +715 +00:34:51,794 --> 00:34:54,029 +was- + +716 00:34:54,059 --> 00:34:55,484 was really stood out to me -because yeah, like I had, so +because-- yeah, like, I had-- -694 +717 00:34:55,484 --> 00:34:56,909 -when +so, when -695 +718 00:34:56,909 --> 00:34:59,280 I made the decision to go into tech, I had a year and a half -696 +719 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:00,449 left in my degree. And I was -like, okay, so I'm going to work +like, "Okay, so I'm going to -697 +720 00:35:00,449 --> 00:35:01,618 -really hard for +work really hard for -698 +721 00:35:01,619 --> 00:35:03,780 this next year and a half, and -then I'm going to be settled +then, I'm going to be settled -699 +722 00:35:03,780 --> 00:35:06,389 -into a career hopefully. And +into a career, hopefully." And having that deadline really -700 +723 00:35:06,389 --> 00:35:08,639 -helped. And then when I got +helped. And then, when I got hired full time, I had four -701 +724 00:35:08,639 --> 00:35:11,219 months left in my undergrad degree. So just to make the full -702 +725 00:35:11,219 --> 00:35:12,689 time work, I stretched that out -into eight months. So starting, +into eight months. So, starting, -703 +726 00:35:12,689 --> 00:35:14,159 you -704 +727 00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:15,509 know, in August, I'll be done with school and just working. -705 +728 00:35:15,509 --> 00:35:16,859 And -706 +729 00:35:16,860 --> 00:35:20,400 -then I feel like then, you know, -like I said, even now, I'm +then, I feel like-- then, you +know, like I said, even now, I'm -707 +730 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,500 working less hard than I was -three or four months ago, but +three or four months ago. But -708 +731 00:35:23,010 --> 00:35:26,820 even past the summer, I'll be pretty fully settled in just -709 +732 00:35:26,820 --> 00:35:27,929 having that in mind really helps. -710 +733 00:35:29,219 --> 00:35:31,440 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, and I -know Rahat too, you have been +Bekah: Yeah. And I know, Rahat, +too, you have been -711 +734 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,039 working on a book. And at some point, you tweeted that you were -712 +735 00:35:35,039 --> 00:35:37,889 -talking about like building a +talking about, like, building a mental health breaks, which I -713 +736 00:35:37,889 --> 00:35:42,239 just really loved that idea. -Because we're always focusing on +Because we're always focusing -714 +737 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:43,469 -like, you've got to learn, -you've got to learn fast, +on, like, you've got to learn- +you've got to learn fast. -715 +738 00:35:43,469 --> 00:35:44,699 -bootcamps +Bootcamps -716 +739 00:35:44,699 --> 00:35:47,940 are moving people through quickly, everybody's looking for -717 +740 00:35:47,940 --> 00:35:52,739 -jobs. And that idea of like, -okay, you can learn, but let's +jobs. And that idea of, like, +"Okay, you can learn, but let's -718 +741 00:35:52,739 --> 00:35:56,099 -pause and take care of you. And +pause and take care of you." And I just found that concept -719 +742 00:35:56,099 --> 00:35:58,349 really, really fascinating. Are -you, is that make it, does it, +you-- is that make it-- does -720 +743 00:35:58,349 --> 00:36:00,599 -did +it-- did -721 -00:36:00,599 --> 00:36:02,954 -it make a place in, does it have -a place, oh my gosh. Does that +744 +00:36:00,599 --> 00:36:01,776 +it make a place in-- does it +have a place-- oh my gosh. Does -722 -00:36:02,954 --> 00:36:05,309 -have, +745 +00:36:01,776 --> 00:36:02,953 +that -723 -00:36:05,699 --> 00:36:06,570 -did, I can't do it (laugh). +746 +00:36:02,954 --> 00:36:06,570 +have-- did-- I can't do it +[laughs]. -724 +747 00:36:09,539 --> 00:36:10,559 -Dan Ott: (laugh) Is that in your +Dan: [Laughs] Is that in your book? -725 +748 00:36:14,340 --> 00:36:15,509 -Rahat Chowdhury: (laugh) Yeah. -So I've definitely built it into +Rahat: [Laughs] Yeah. So, I've +definitely built it into -726 +749 00:36:15,509 --> 00:36:16,678 the chapters -727 -00:36:16,679 --> 00:36:20,909 -I've been writing recently. Like -at the end, depending on like +750 +00:36:16,679 --> 00:36:18,794 +I've been writing recently. +Like, at the end, depending on, -728 +751 +00:36:18,794 --> 00:36:20,909 +like, + +752 00:36:20,909 --> 00:36:24,329 what subject I cover in that specific chapter, like, there's -729 +753 00:36:24,329 --> 00:36:27,869 -one where talking about like, +one where talking about, like, trying to find other people -730 +754 00:36:27,869 --> 00:36:30,239 -similar, like in the same +similar-- like, in the same journey as you are going into -731 +755 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:35,099 -tech and seeing like, you know, +tech and seeing, like, you know, if you can band together to work -732 +756 00:36:35,099 --> 00:36:41,340 on some stuff. And at the end, I -kind of like, I want to have +kind of like-- I want to have, -733 +757 00:36:41,340 --> 00:36:43,619 -like a sort of like a norm-, +like, a sort of, like, a norm- kind of like an alert box type -734 -00:36:43,619 --> 00:36:46,530 -thing at the end of like, hey, -you know, reaching out to people +758 +00:36:43,619 --> 00:36:45,074 +thing at the end of, like, +"Hey," you know, "reaching out -735 +759 +00:36:45,074 --> 00:36:46,529 +to people + +760 00:36:47,699 --> 00:36:51,900 can be hard. Talking to people -is pretty hard. Especially if +is pretty hard. Especially, if -736 +761 00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:56,849 you're like me, have some social anxiety and stuff. And, you -737 +762 00:36:56,849 --> 00:37:00,659 know, if you've talked to a couple people, great. You don't -738 +763 00:37:00,659 --> 00:37:03,900 have to keep doing it. Take a break, just remember to take -739 -00:37:03,900 --> 00:37:06,780 -care of yourself stuff like -that. And that, there's a little +764 +00:37:03,900 --> 00:37:05,340 +care of yourself." Stuff like +that. And that-- there's a -740 -00:37:06,809 --> 00:37:09,929 -like alerts, like at the end of -each chapter like that, based on +765 +00:37:05,340 --> 00:37:06,780 +little, -741 +766 +00:37:06,809 --> 00:37:08,369 +like, alerts, like, at the end +of each chapter like that, based + +767 +00:37:08,369 --> 00:37:09,929 +on + +768 00:37:09,929 --> 00:37:12,599 -whatever we covered. It's just +whatever we covered. It's just, like, it's awesome that you're -742 +769 00:37:12,599 --> 00:37:15,869 doing this, but you should also be taking care of yourself as -743 +770 00:37:15,869 --> 00:37:16,170 well. -744 +771 00:37:18,599 --> 00:37:19,380 -Dan Ott: That's really cool. +Dan: That's really cool. -745 +772 00:37:20,699 --> 00:37:21,789 -Cameron Bardell: Now that I -remember what Bekah said, sorry, +Cameron: Now that I remember +what Bekah said-- -746 +773 00:37:21,789 --> 00:37:22,879 -just to jump in quick. Bekah -said something that stood out to +sorry, just to jump in quick. +Bekah said something that stood -747 +774 00:37:22,879 --> 00:37:23,969 -me. +out to me. -748 +775 00:37:23,969 --> 00:37:25,199 -I guess it's like these -bootcamps and online, different +I guess, it's-- like, these +bootcamps and online-- different -749 +776 00:37:25,199 --> 00:37:26,429 online, you know, -750 +777 00:37:27,630 --> 00:37:28,785 learning platforms, whether it's -Udemy, or like something +Udemy or, like, something -751 +778 00:37:28,785 --> 00:37:29,940 self-directed -752 +779 00:37:29,940 --> 00:37:32,219 like that, they kind of try to -push you through, like +push you through—like -753 +780 00:37:32,219 --> 00:37:34,619 -you said, and finish quickly. -And that's, they present it in +you said—and finish quickly. And +that's-- they present it in -754 +781 00:37:34,619 --> 00:37:37,019 -ways if that's good for you, and -it's not as good to them, then +ways if that's good for you and +it's not as good to them. Then, -755 +782 00:37:37,019 --> 00:37:38,639 they can get more people in -(laugh) and charge more people +[laughs] and charge more people -756 +783 00:37:38,639 --> 00:37:40,259 more money. -757 +784 00:37:40,260 --> 00:37:42,420 So yeah, of course, they have to present that in a way that makes -758 +785 00:37:42,420 --> 00:37:43,170 it seem like it's for you, but it's not. -759 +786 00:37:45,269 --> 00:37:47,070 -Dan Ott: Yeah, it seem, that's -actually, that's an interesting +Dan: Yeah, it seem-- that's +actually-- that's an interesting -760 +787 00:37:47,070 --> 00:37:50,369 point. And in the bootcamps, from what I've heard, it seems -761 +788 00:37:50,369 --> 00:37:53,130 -like they're either in a like, -kind of class, like they're +like they're either in a, like, +kind of class, like, they're-- -762 +789 00:37:53,130 --> 00:37:56,159 where people are pushing and -pushing, or it's either that, +pushing. Or it's either that, -763 +790 00:37:56,159 --> 00:37:58,394 or you're in the self-guided -path. And it, from what I've +path. And it—from what I've -764 +791 00:37:58,394 --> 00:38:00,629 -heard, and +heard and -765 +792 00:38:00,630 --> 00:38:02,789 I don't have full experience -with this, but from what I've +with this—but from what I've -766 +793 00:38:02,789 --> 00:38:06,119 heard, it's sort of like very much on your own in a point, you -767 +794 00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:08,909 -know? And so you can go, try to +know? And so, you can go, try to go faster, or you go slow, or -768 -00:38:08,909 --> 00:38:11,309 -you lost or whatever, but you're -sort of like drifting off on +795 +00:38:08,909 --> 00:38:10,109 +you lost, or whatever. But +you're sort of like drifting off -769 +796 +00:38:10,109 --> 00:38:11,309 +on + +797 00:38:11,309 --> 00:38:13,574 your own. I think, yeah, -getting, getting some, some of +getting- getting some- some of -770 +798 00:38:13,574 --> 00:38:15,839 that -771 +799 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,690 -thought into learning, like +thought into learning, like, learning materials and learning, -772 +800 00:38:19,110 --> 00:38:24,869 -you know, courses and programs. -It seems very important. A lot, +you know, courses and programs, +it seems very important. A lot- -773 +801 00:38:24,869 --> 00:38:28,590 a lot of people struggling in -bootcamps. From what I've +bootcamps—from what I've -774 +802 00:38:28,590 --> 00:38:30,420 -learned over the last, over the +learned over the last- over the last year. -775 +803 00:38:32,309 --> 00:38:33,254 -Rahat Chowdhury: Yeah, I think -that's definitely like a culture +Rahat: Yeah. I think that's +definitely, like, a culture -776 +804 00:38:33,254 --> 00:38:34,199 and a -777 +805 00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:39,360 lot of bootcamps that needs to change. Because, yeah, we're -778 -00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,019 -just kind of pushing and pushing -and not reminding people to just +806 +00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,189 +just kind of pushing and +pushing, and not reminding -779 +807 +00:38:41,189 --> 00:38:43,018 +people to just + +808 00:38:43,050 --> 00:38:46,110 -take a break. Like, I also do, +take a break. Like, I also do-- I'm a TA at a bootcamp, -780 +809 00:38:46,110 --> 00:38:49,170 part-time. -781 +810 00:38:49,170 --> 00:38:52,530 -And like, one of my students was -asking me, like, +And, like, one of my students +was asking me like, -782 +811 00:38:53,010 --> 00:38:54,735 -how do I get better at -JavaScript? How do I like, do +"How do I get better at +JavaScript? How do I, like, do -783 +812 00:38:54,735 --> 00:38:56,460 more stuff to, -784 +813 00:38:57,599 --> 00:39:01,139 -you know, keep, keep building. I +you know, keep- keep building? I tried to work on things every -785 +814 00:39:01,139 --> 00:39:06,449 single day, for X amount of -hours. And I'm just like, take a +hours." And I'm just like, "Take -786 -00:39:06,449 --> 00:39:08,969 -break sometimes, and just let -the information kind of sink in. +815 +00:39:06,449 --> 00:39:07,709 +a break sometimes and just let +the information kind of sink -787 +816 +00:39:07,709 --> 00:39:08,969 +in." + +817 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,880 -Because sometimes you just need -to walk away from it to like, +Because sometimes, you just need +to walk away from it to, like, -788 -00:39:12,300 --> 00:39:16,710 +818 +00:39:12,300 --> 00:39:14,505 let yourself absorb it. -Sometimes just like walking away +Sometimes, just, like, walking -789 +819 +00:39:14,505 --> 00:39:16,710 +away + +820 00:39:16,710 --> 00:39:18,869 -is like one of the best things -you can do to like, solve a +is, like, one of the best things +you can do to, like, solve a -790 +821 00:39:18,869 --> 00:39:22,019 -problem. Like there's countless -sign I think a lot of people +problem. Like, there's countless +sign, I think, a lot of people -791 +822 00:39:22,139 --> 00:39:24,599 -talking about it of like, you +talking about it of, like, you know, you're going through -792 +823 00:39:24,599 --> 00:39:27,179 trying to fix a bug, you don't -know what's going on, you walk +know what's going on. You walk -793 -00:39:27,179 --> 00:39:30,360 -away, you come back and you know -what's going on now. Because you +824 +00:39:27,179 --> 00:39:28,769 +away, you come back, and you +know what's going on now because -794 +825 +00:39:28,769 --> 00:39:30,359 +you + +826 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,750 need to refresh or you need to -just like step away sometimes. +just, like, step away sometimes. -795 +827 00:39:34,769 --> 00:39:35,550 -Dan Ott: Absolutely. +Dan: Absolutely. -796 +828 00:39:35,820 --> 00:39:37,230 -Cameron Bardell: Yeah. -Motivation is like a finite +Cameron: Yeah. Motivation is, +like, a finite resource -797 +829 00:39:37,230 --> 00:39:37,769 -resource (laugh). +[laughs]. -798 +830 00:39:38,250 --> 00:39:42,780 -Dan Ott: Yeah, yeah. I feel like -that, that go take a walk is, is +Dan: Yeah, yeah. I feel like +that- that go take a walk is- is -799 +831 00:39:42,780 --> 00:39:46,829 -gotta be like, when people are +gotta be, like, when people are having a, you know, when people -800 +832 00:39:46,829 --> 00:39:49,079 -are like, I can't figure this -thing out, you know, it's like, +are like, "I can't figure this +thing out," you know? It's like -801 +833 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,239 when you're doing tech support, you need the first question is, -802 +834 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:52,694 -when did you turn it off and -turn it back on again, right? +"When did you turn it off and +turn it back on again," right? -803 +835 00:39:52,694 --> 00:39:54,149 -And so +And so, -804 +836 00:39:54,420 --> 00:39:57,869 -when you do like bug support, -you're like, okay, did you, did +when you do, like, bug support, +you're like, "Okay. Did you- did -805 +837 00:39:57,869 --> 00:39:59,670 you take a walk? Have you -stepped away from the computer, +stepped away from the computer -806 +838 00:39:59,670 --> 00:40:01,710 -yet? (laugh) Step away from the +yet? [Laughs] Step away from the computer and come back. And then -807 +839 00:40:01,710 --> 00:40:03,750 let's -808 +840 00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:05,010 see if you're still having the -same problem (laugh). +same problem [laughs]." -809 +841 00:40:06,659 --> 00:40:09,360 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: It's so -hard to, I think, in bootcamps, +Bekah: It's so hard to-- I +think, in bootcamps, -810 +842 00:40:09,389 --> 00:40:12,659 there's that sense of loneliness and lack of community, -811 +843 00:40:12,690 --> 00:40:16,949 especially for online bootcamps with self-paced students that -812 +844 00:40:16,949 --> 00:40:20,760 don't prioritize community. And -then you, you find that problem. +then you- you find that problem. -813 -00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,579 -So you can take a walk and come -back and have nobody to ask, +845 +00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,169 +So, you can take a walk, and +come back, and have nobody to -814 +846 +00:40:22,169 --> 00:40:23,578 +ask, + +847 00:40:23,579 --> 00:40:26,519 -right? And so that's like, +right? And so, that's, like, bootcamps come with built-in -815 +848 00:40:26,519 --> 00:40:28,439 -loneliness, like, I don't know, -that needs to be (laugh) +loneliness, like-- I don't know, +that needs to be [laughs] -816 -00:40:28,439 --> 00:40:30,359 -advertised or - -817 -00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:30,900 -something. +849 +00:40:28,439 --> 00:40:30,900 +advertised or something. -818 +850 00:40:31,769 --> 00:40:35,099 -Cameron Bardell: Yeah. Meg, in -our Slack at VC, Meg was talking +Cameron: Yeah. Meg-- in our +Slack at VC, Meg was talking -819 +851 00:40:35,099 --> 00:40:36,779 about that a lot. How she's doing the self-guided bootcamp. -820 +852 00:40:36,779 --> 00:40:38,459 And that she can't -821 +853 00:40:38,460 --> 00:40:40,800 do it as fast as some of her peers because she's working at -822 -00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,380 +854 +00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,090 the same time. So she's kind of -fell behind like the people she +fell behind, like, the people -823 +855 +00:40:42,090 --> 00:40:43,380 +she + +856 00:40:43,380 --> 00:40:45,929 -started with just for lack of -time. And then I think that +started with, just for lack of +time. And then, I think that -824 +857 00:40:45,929 --> 00:40:48,239 contributed to some of your dissatisfaction. -825 +858 00:40:48,690 --> 00:40:50,429 -Dan Ott: Yeah, absolutely. Um, -she's one of the people I was +Dan: Yeah, absolutely. She's one +of the people I was -826 -00:40:50,519 --> 00:40:55,440 -thinking about. Marie was, while -she was on the podcast a couple +859 +00:40:50,519 --> 00:40:52,979 +thinking about. Marie was-- +while she was on the podcast a -827 +860 +00:40:52,979 --> 00:40:55,439 +couple + +861 00:40:55,440 --> 00:41:00,300 episodes ago, but was talking -about, she did a, like the +about-- she did a-- like the -828 +862 00:41:00,300 --> 00:41:03,090 scheduled one, right? But they didn't have a lot of support. -829 +863 00:41:03,090 --> 00:41:05,340 -And she was struggling. And so +And she was struggling. And so, she basically strong armchair -830 -00:41:05,340 --> 00:41:08,820 +864 +00:41:05,340 --> 00:41:07,080 class into doing study groups. -And they all found it, you know, +And they all found it-- you -831 +865 +00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:08,820 +know, + +866 00:41:08,820 --> 00:41:13,170 I mean, they all found it very valuable, you know? But it was -832 +867 00:41:13,170 --> 00:41:17,250 not a program thing, you know? -It was, it was Marie, doing it, +It was- it was Marie, doing it, -833 +868 00:41:17,250 --> 00:41:19,500 because she wanted the support. And it turned out other people, -834 +869 00:41:19,500 --> 00:41:20,610 -you know, found it valuable, -too. +you know, found it valuable too. -835 +870 00:41:20,909 --> 00:41:22,184 -Cameron Bardell: It's the same -way I pass like undergrad. +Cameron: It's the same way I +pass, like, undergrad. -836 +871 00:41:22,184 --> 00:41:23,459 -(laugh) Just +[Laughs] Just -837 +872 00:41:23,460 --> 00:41:26,849 having groups of people to study -with, um, you know, that went +with-- you know, that went -838 +873 00:41:26,849 --> 00:41:28,769 away for a lot of people in the -pandemic, and I can't imagine +pandemic. And I can't imagine -839 +874 00:41:28,769 --> 00:41:31,079 -what it would have been like, as +what it would have been like as the first year you're going into -840 +875 00:41:31,079 --> 00:41:32,459 -do that, you know. And the only +do that, you know? And the only way I passed, you know, second -841 +876 00:41:32,459 --> 00:41:33,839 year -842 +877 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,249 calculus is because I was doing it with a group of friends -843 +878 00:41:35,249 --> 00:41:36,658 -(laugh). So +[laughs]. So -844 +879 00:41:36,659 --> 00:41:38,309 yeah, I definitely feel bad for those people. -845 +880 00:41:40,079 --> 00:41:42,750 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I was -talking to a mom recently, and I +Bekah: I was talking to a mom +recently, and I -846 +881 00:41:42,750 --> 00:41:44,265 don't remember she's going through a bootcamp or a -847 +882 00:41:44,265 --> 00:41:45,780 -self-taught, +self-taught. -848 +883 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:53,519 -she's doing like a guided, can't -talk today (laugh). Can't +She's doing, like, a guided-- +can't talk today [laughs]. Can't -849 +884 00:41:53,519 --> 00:41:58,829 remember if she is self-taught or doing a bootcamp. But one of -850 -00:41:58,829 --> 00:42:02,369 +885 +00:41:58,829 --> 00:42:00,599 the things she was saying was, -it's just so hard to find time, +"It's just so hard to find -851 +886 +00:42:00,599 --> 00:42:02,369 +time," + +887 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,579 -you know, a lot of moms are at +you know? A lot of moms are at home with kids right now -852 +888 00:42:05,579 --> 00:42:08,909 because of the pandemic, and there's no childcare. And so -853 +889 00:42:09,179 --> 00:42:12,599 -she's saying, yeah, you know, -like, I guide my students do +she's saying, "Yeah," you know, +like, "I guide my students do -854 -00:42:12,599 --> 00:42:17,969 +890 +00:42:12,599 --> 00:42:15,284 their schoolwork all day, and -then I stay up from like, 12 30 +then I stay up from, like, -855 -00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,199 -until 3 30, and then I've got to -get up at 7, you know, and +891 +00:42:15,284 --> 00:42:17,969 +twelve -856 +892 +00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,099 +thirty until three thirty, and +then I've got to get up at + +893 +00:42:20,099 --> 00:42:22,198 +seven," you know? And + +894 00:42:22,199 --> 00:42:26,760 -it's like, okay. Let, let's +it's like, "Okay. Let-- let's break this down a little bit and -857 +895 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,969 -figure out something that's, -that's doable, and maintainable, +figure out something that's- +that's doable and maintainable, -858 -00:42:29,969 --> 00:42:35,130 -and that allows you to get rest. -Because a rested brain is going +896 +00:42:29,969 --> 00:42:32,549 +and that allows you to get +rest." Because a rested brain is -859 +897 +00:42:32,549 --> 00:42:35,129 +going + +898 00:42:35,130 --> 00:42:38,550 to absorb the material more. But, you know, there's this -860 +899 00:42:38,550 --> 00:42:44,039 pressure to continue to go all the time, despite everything -861 +900 00:42:44,039 --> 00:42:48,000 else. And you, I don't know, you can't really strong-arm your way -862 +901 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,260 -through, well, I was gonna say -through, through lack of sleep, +through-- well, I was gonna say +through- through lack of sleep, -863 +902 00:42:52,260 --> 00:42:53,955 but parenthood that kind of makes you do that. So maybe you -864 +903 00:42:53,955 --> 00:42:55,650 -can (laugh) +can [laughs]-- -865 +904 00:42:57,449 --> 00:42:58,664 -Dan Ott: (laugh) Anyway that -also, you know, confirms that +Dan: [Laughs] Anyway, that also, +you know, confirms that -866 +905 00:42:58,664 --> 00:42:59,879 it's not a good -867 +906 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:04,530 idea by the end of the choices you're making after four weeks -868 +907 00:43:04,530 --> 00:43:11,159 of not sleeping. It's good stuff -though (laugh). +though [laughs]. -869 +908 00:43:13,679 --> 00:43:18,000 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: So I've -been doing like a deep dive into +Bekah: So, I've been doing, +like, a deep dive into -870 +909 00:43:18,030 --> 00:43:22,980 deep learning and mental health. -And I've been like, very, very +And I've been, like, very, very -871 +910 00:43:22,980 --> 00:43:27,300 fascinated by all of the different ways that they are -872 +911 00:43:27,329 --> 00:43:31,110 approaching mental health with technology and how I think -873 +912 00:43:31,110 --> 00:43:38,309 that's gonna provide more -individualistic care for, for +individualistic care for- for -874 +913 00:43:38,309 --> 00:43:42,360 -people and address like, I +people, and address, like, I think, you know, really -875 +914 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:47,010 understanding what mental health looks like. And so I think that -876 +915 00:43:47,010 --> 00:43:49,829 that's really exciting. But I also feel like, you know, -877 +916 00:43:49,829 --> 00:43:53,039 -there's this, this tendency, -like, I'm so excited about this +there's this- this tendency, +like, "I'm so excited about this -878 +917 00:43:53,039 --> 00:43:57,480 -thing, but you're gonna have to +thing" but you're gonna have to wait forever for it to come out -879 +918 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,660 -and to apply, to apply it to +and to apply- to apply it to your own life. But I think that, -880 +919 00:44:00,660 --> 00:44:03,840 you -881 +920 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:08,159 know, all of these little things that bring us hope can be really -882 +921 00:44:08,159 --> 00:44:10,800 useful. I don't know if there's anything that you found that -883 -00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,710 -you're like, yes, this is really -helpful, whether it's for you, +922 +00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,255 +you're like, "Yes, this is +really helpful," whether it's -884 +923 +00:44:12,255 --> 00:44:13,710 +for you, + +924 00:44:13,710 --> 00:44:18,840 or someone you know, or for your projects in terms of tech and -885 +925 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,699 mental health, but I'd love to hear about it. -886 +926 00:44:22,019 --> 00:44:24,630 -Cameron Bardell: I don't have -anything, you know, anything +Cameron: I don't have anything-- +you know, anything, -887 +927 00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:26,820 -like deep learning or AI or +like, deep learning or AI or anything like that. I did take -888 +928 00:44:26,820 --> 00:44:28,650 some of my own trend data and kind of feed it into a -889 +929 00:44:28,980 --> 00:44:30,989 prediction engine in a classification engine, just to -890 +930 00:44:30,989 --> 00:44:32,399 see if I can find, you know, anything. I didn't find anything -891 +931 00:44:32,399 --> 00:44:33,809 that's -892 -00:44:33,809 --> 00:44:35,789 +932 +00:44:33,809 --> 00:44:34,799 useful, mostly because my data -is like, pretty one dimensional. +is, like, pretty one -893 +933 +00:44:34,799 --> 00:44:35,789 +dimensional. + +934 00:44:36,300 --> 00:44:38,280 -But yeah, I don't, nothing that +But yeah, I don't-- nothing that I've used personally comes right -894 -00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,260 -to - -895 -00:44:40,260 --> 00:44:42,780 -mind. But like you said, you +935 +00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,780 +to mind. But like you said, you know, we're kind of using our -896 +936 00:44:42,780 --> 00:44:45,300 own experiences to look at these things. And you said, well, -897 +937 00:44:45,539 --> 00:44:47,309 maybe it'll take a long time for these to come out and be -898 +938 00:44:47,309 --> 00:44:50,519 -available to use ourselves but -or, we could use our experiences +available to use ourselves but-- +or we could use our experiences -899 +939 00:44:50,519 --> 00:44:52,589 to build them for, you know, the next group of people. And they -900 +940 00:44:52,589 --> 00:44:54,659 can improve -901 +941 00:44:54,659 --> 00:44:56,699 upon what we build. I think that's kind of the dream of the -902 +942 00:44:56,699 --> 00:44:58,679 tech industry is that things -keep improving. So, (laugh) +keep improving. So, [laughs] -903 +943 00:44:58,679 --> 00:45:00,659 hopefully. We'll -904 +944 00:45:00,659 --> 00:45:01,260 see how it goes. -905 +945 00:45:02,489 --> 00:45:05,159 -Rahat Chowdhury: Yeah, deep -learning stuff is cool. We +Rahat: Yeah, deep learning stuff +is cool. We -906 +946 00:45:05,159 --> 00:45:08,668 -actually, like one component of -our app is like the whole +actually, like, one component of +our app is, like, the whole -907 +947 00:45:08,668 --> 00:45:11,938 reminder of something, you know, relevant to what you're going -908 +948 00:45:11,938 --> 00:45:18,809 through right now. And we're -building this with like, AWS +building this with, like, AWS -909 +949 00:45:18,809 --> 00:45:23,369 Amplify, which gives us access to a couple cool like machine -910 +950 00:45:23,369 --> 00:45:28,048 learning stuff that they have kind of built-in. And right now, -911 +951 00:45:28,048 --> 00:45:30,929 we're kind of like trying to figure out the best way to kind -912 +952 00:45:30,929 --> 00:45:35,338 of compare one entry that you're not having a good day on -913 +953 00:45:35,338 --> 00:45:40,259 -to something that's like, +to something that's, like, relevant, but you did have a -914 +954 00:45:40,259 --> 00:45:44,278 good day on to remind you of -stuff. So while we're kind of +stuff. So, while we're kind of -915 +955 00:45:44,278 --> 00:45:48,869 -like using that, I guess API for -now, what we kind of want to do +like using that—I guess API for +now—what we kind of want to do -916 +956 00:45:48,869 --> 00:45:52,438 eventually is probably build -something of our own based on +something of our own based on, -917 +957 00:45:52,438 --> 00:45:57,509 like, what our users are actually going through. So we -918 +958 00:45:57,509 --> 00:46:00,208 have someone on board who's kind of like leading that a little -919 +959 00:46:00,208 --> 00:46:07,139 bit. And, yeah, I think there's a lot of room to do some cool -920 +960 00:46:07,139 --> 00:46:09,148 stuff with deep learning and mental health. -921 +961 00:46:11,730 --> 00:46:15,329 -Dan Ott: That's pretty -interesting. I know, I keep +Dan: That's pretty interesting. +I know I keep -922 +962 00:46:15,329 --> 00:46:18,659 coming back to the cognitive -therapy stuff, but like yet, +therapy stuff. But, like, yet-- -923 +963 00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,650 -like adding that little aspect +like, adding that little aspect into it. And you're saying, -924 +964 00:46:22,949 --> 00:46:26,699 -like, for example, you're like, -you're really upset, because you +like, for example, you're, like, +you're really upset because you -925 +965 00:46:26,699 --> 00:46:29,460 feel like you can't do a thing or something. And then the app -926 +966 00:46:29,460 --> 00:46:31,349 -can be like, well, here. -Actually, here's proof that you +can be like, well, here-- +actually, here's proof that you -927 +967 00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:32,879 -have done (laugh) a similar -thing, you know, like six times +have done [laughs] a similar +thing, you know, like, six times -928 +968 00:46:32,879 --> 00:46:34,409 in the -929 +969 00:46:34,409 --> 00:46:37,800 past, like, since we've started, you know, working together, or -930 +970 00:46:37,829 --> 00:46:39,629 something like that, that could -be really, I don't know. Really +be really-- I don't know. Really -931 +971 00:46:39,629 --> 00:46:41,429 valuable. -932 +972 00:46:41,460 --> 00:46:42,300 -Rahat Chowdhury: Yeah, -definitely. +Rahat: Yeah, definitely. -933 +973 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,980 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Always, um, -you know, like, after I finally +Bekah: Always-- you know, like, +after I finally -934 +974 00:46:46,980 --> 00:46:54,570 -felt like I was a, had my trauma -under control, I always +felt like I was a-- had my +trauma under control, I always -935 +975 00:46:54,570 --> 00:46:58,199 would talk to people about this -idea of like, having this +idea of, like, having this -936 +976 00:46:58,650 --> 00:47:01,619 experience in your back pocket, -like, look, I was able to make +like, "Look, I was able to make -937 +977 00:47:01,619 --> 00:47:06,269 it through this. And it was really challenging for a period -938 +978 00:47:06,269 --> 00:47:09,929 of time. But I've developed -these tools, or like, I know +these tools or, like, I know -939 +979 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,719 that I need community, or I know that this is going to be a -940 +980 00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:17,309 trigger for me to predict some -of those things. But at the +of those things." But at the -941 +981 00:47:17,309 --> 00:47:21,750 beginning of the pandemic, I found myself, again, frustrated -942 +982 00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:26,670 -with myself, because I thought, +with myself because I thought, you know, so much of what I feel -943 +983 00:47:26,670 --> 00:47:30,389 like I'm going through, like, I lost my job, my kids were at -944 +984 00:47:30,389 --> 00:47:34,469 home, and I was supervising their schooling. And I just felt -945 +985 00:47:34,469 --> 00:47:37,559 like really isolated and alone. -I'm like, I have navigated +I'm like, "I have navigated -946 -00:47:37,559 --> 00:47:40,860 +986 +00:47:37,559 --> 00:47:39,209 through this before. But I'm -crying every single night. Like, +crying every single night." -947 +987 +00:47:39,209 --> 00:47:40,859 +Like, + +988 00:47:40,860 --> 00:47:45,809 -what, what, why, why can't I -make it through this and, and +"What- what-- why- why can't I +make it through this?" And- and, -948 +989 00:47:45,809 --> 00:47:47,789 like, ultimately, what I -remembered was, hey, community +remembered was, "Hey, community -949 +990 00:47:47,789 --> 00:47:49,769 plays -950 +991 00:47:49,769 --> 00:47:52,829 a really big role in that, -right? And so that's, that's how +right?" And so that's- that's -951 +992 00:47:52,829 --> 00:47:55,710 -Virtual Coffee was started. -Because I was like, hey, anyone +how Virtual Coffee was started. +Because I was like, "Hey, anyone -952 +993 00:47:55,710 --> 00:47:59,760 -want to get together because I -feel really lonely. But then +want to get together? Because I +feel really lonely." But then, -953 +994 00:47:59,789 --> 00:48:05,670 also, recognizing that I wasn't the only one going through the -954 +995 00:48:05,670 --> 00:48:08,789 -experience of the pandemic, and +experience of the pandemic and the effects of it. Like, -955 +996 00:48:09,179 --> 00:48:13,409 everybody was experiencing it. And that's very different from -956 +997 00:48:13,409 --> 00:48:18,150 navigating your own situation. -And so, you know, I think, for +And so, you know, I think—for -957 +998 00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:21,869 -me, at least, I have this -tendency to be really frustrated +me at least—I have this tendency +to be really frustrated -958 +999 00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:27,119 -with myself when I think like, I -should have the skills or the +with myself when I think, like, +I should have the skills or the -959 +1000 00:48:27,119 --> 00:48:29,940 tools or whatever to make it through this. But also, not -960 +1001 00:48:29,940 --> 00:48:35,159 every experience is the same. And that's gonna vary from time -961 +1002 00:48:35,159 --> 00:48:39,480 to time. So there's learning new things, and there's growing as a -962 +1003 00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:43,769 person. And I think that, you know, being able to share those -963 +1004 00:48:43,769 --> 00:48:45,119 -things, and the first couple -Virtual Coffees, that's what - -964 -00:48:45,119 --> 00:48:46,469 -they +things and the first couple +virtual coffees, that's what -965 -00:48:46,469 --> 00:48:49,409 -were, it was like, I'm +1005 +00:48:45,119 --> 00:48:49,409 +they were. It was like, "I'm frustrated, there's a pandemic, -966 +1006 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:54,480 and I'm very sad about it right -now. But that's what creates +now." But that's what creates -967 +1007 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,619 -that like closeness and that +that, like, closeness and that ability for vulnerability and, -968 +1008 00:48:58,949 --> 00:49:01,469 -you know, for, for other people +you know, for- for other people to be able to share their -969 +1009 00:49:01,469 --> 00:49:02,460 stories as well. -970 +1010 00:49:04,110 --> 00:49:04,559 -Dan Ott: Word. (laugh) - -971 -00:49:07,949 --> 00:49:08,924 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: (laugh) -Sorry. I feel like I did a +Dan: Word! [Laughs] -972 -00:49:08,924 --> 00:49:09,899 -monologue. You +1011 +00:49:07,949 --> 00:49:09,899 +Bekah: [Laughs] Sorry. I feel +like I did a monologue. You -973 +1012 00:49:09,900 --> 00:49:10,619 can cut that. -974 +1013 00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:13,050 -Cameron Bardell: No, don't cut -that. +Cameron: No, don't cut that. -975 +1014 00:49:13,829 --> 00:49:14,429 -Rahat Chowdhury: Yeah, that was -awesome. +Rahat: Yeah, that was awesome. -976 +1015 00:49:14,699 --> 00:49:15,929 -Dan Ott: No, I think it was -great. I just didn't have +Dan: No, I think it was great. I +just didn't have -977 +1016 00:49:15,929 --> 00:49:16,889 anything really to add. -978 +1017 00:49:16,949 --> 00:49:17,940 -Rahat Chowdhury: And not to add. -Yeah. (laugh) +Rahat: And not to add. Yeah. +[Laughs] -979 +1018 00:49:23,909 --> 00:49:28,739 -Dan Ott: Okay, so wrapping up. I +Dan: Okay. So, wrapping up. I guess just the last question -980 +1019 00:49:28,829 --> 00:49:33,599 that is a little more general. We, in Virtual Coffee, talk a -981 +1020 00:49:33,599 --> 00:49:36,840 -lot about you know, finding -teams and you know, find a job +lot about, you know, finding +teams and, you know, find a job -982 +1021 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,440 and stuff like that. So when you're thinking about either -983 +1022 00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:44,159 joining a company or creating a team to work on a project, what -984 +1023 00:49:44,159 --> 00:49:46,784 -is, what is like a -characteristic, what just, just +is- what is, like, a +characteristic, what-- just- -985 +1024 00:49:46,784 --> 00:49:49,409 -like pick one, +just, like, pick one, -986 +1025 00:49:49,409 --> 00:49:53,460 but what is one characteristic -that you value in people, in +that you value in people- in -987 +1026 00:49:53,460 --> 00:49:56,789 people you work with? We'll start with Rahat. -988 +1027 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,750 -Rahat Chowdhury: Yeah, I mean, -I've been recently applying for +Rahat: Yeah, I mean, I've been +recently applying for -989 +1028 00:50:00,900 --> 00:50:04,349 -jobs and stuffs. So one thing -I've been kind of like, asking a +jobs and stuffs. So, one thing +I've been kind of like asking a -990 +1029 00:50:04,349 --> 00:50:07,289 -lot about is like, how the -culture is in terms of like pair +lot about is, like, how the +culture is in terms of, like, -991 +1030 00:50:07,289 --> 00:50:11,010 -programming. I love like -learning things from like my +pair programming. I love, like, +learning things from, like, my -992 +1031 00:50:11,010 --> 00:50:15,989 -experience steps. So if there's -like a environment for that, +experience steps. So if there's, +like, a environment for that, -993 +1032 00:50:16,019 --> 00:50:20,369 that's definitely something super important to me. I've had -994 -00:50:20,369 --> 00:50:22,500 +1033 +00:50:20,369 --> 00:50:21,434 a couple of companies tell me -straight up that, yeah, we don't +straight up that, "Yeah, we -995 +1034 +00:50:21,434 --> 00:50:22,499 +don't + +1035 00:50:22,500 --> 00:50:23,924 -really have time for that, like -hmm, probably don't want to +really have time for that." +Like, "Hmm, probably don't want -996 +1036 00:50:23,924 --> 00:50:25,348 -continue +to continue -997 -00:50:25,349 --> 00:50:32,099 -with you then. So, yeah, I mean, -I feel like that kind of like, +1037 +00:50:25,349 --> 00:50:28,724 +with you then." So, yeah. I +mean, I feel like that kind of, -998 +1038 +00:50:28,724 --> 00:50:32,099 +like, + +1039 00:50:32,099 --> 00:50:36,179 shows you a little bit about how, you know, senior devs kind -999 +1040 00:50:36,179 --> 00:50:41,039 of like support the more junior ones. And I guess the overall -1000 +1041 00:50:41,039 --> 00:50:46,650 -team dynamic of like, having -that willingness to just like +team dynamic of, like, having +that willingness to just, like, -1001 +1042 00:50:46,650 --> 00:50:49,530 hop on a call or something with somebody and help them through a -1002 +1043 00:50:49,530 --> 00:50:50,070 problem. -1003 -00:50:51,420 --> 00:50:52,844 -Dan Ott: Yeah, absolutely. I -found with pair programming, +1044 +00:50:51,420 --> 00:50:54,268 +Dan: Yeah, absolutely. I found +with pair programming, too, -1004 -00:50:52,844 --> 00:50:54,268 -too, +1045 +00:50:54,269 --> 00:50:56,114 +it's- it's sometimes-- it's a +top down issue, right? You know? -1005 -00:50:54,269 --> 00:50:57,960 -it's, it's sometimes, it's a top -down issue, right? You know? So, +1046 +00:50:56,114 --> 00:50:57,959 +So- -1006 -00:50:57,989 --> 00:51:02,460 -so like, you could have a senior -developer, be willing, or you +1047 +00:50:57,989 --> 00:51:00,224 +so, like, you could have a +senior developer be willing-- -1007 +1048 +00:51:00,224 --> 00:51:02,459 +or, you + +1049 00:51:02,460 --> 00:51:04,380 know, willing to talk and willing to do stuff like that. -1008 +1050 00:51:04,380 --> 00:51:06,659 -But when you phrase it as like +But when you phrase it as, like, pair programming, then -1009 +1051 00:51:06,659 --> 00:51:08,114 -management gets jumpy, because -two people, like in their mind, +management gets jumpy because +two people, like-- in their -1010 +1052 00:51:08,114 --> 00:51:09,569 -two people are +mind, two people are -1011 +1053 00:51:09,570 --> 00:51:13,530 working on the same problem or -whatever, so, yeah. I think +whatever. So, yeah. I think -1012 +1054 00:51:13,530 --> 00:51:15,360 -that's, that's really important +that's- that's really important to think about when you're -1013 +1055 00:51:15,869 --> 00:51:18,179 finding people to work with. Cameron, what about you? -1014 +1056 00:51:18,630 --> 00:51:20,730 -Cameron Bardell: Yeah, that was -a good one. One thing I noticed, +Cameron: Yeah, that was a good +one. One thing I noticed, -1015 +1057 00:51:20,849 --> 00:51:23,190 I was doing a bunch of interviewing. I interviewed at a -1016 +1058 00:51:23,190 --> 00:51:25,380 -lot of places, even something -like that, I was pretty sure I +lot of places even-- something +like that. I was pretty sure I -1017 +1059 00:51:25,380 --> 00:51:27,900 would take a job just to kind of find out what the tech industry -1018 +1060 00:51:27,900 --> 00:51:30,090 -was like, because I didn't -really know. And one thing I +was like because I didn't really +know. And one thing I -1019 +1061 00:51:30,090 --> 00:51:32,699 -noticed was, that kind of stood +noticed was-- that kind of stood out to me with some places don't -1020 +1062 00:51:32,699 --> 00:51:34,559 -ever talk about like, the +ever talk about, like, the products they're building. And -1021 -00:51:34,559 --> 00:51:37,019 -if you (laugh) can't really tell -if they care about what they're +1063 +00:51:34,559 --> 00:51:35,789 +if you [laughs] can't really +tell if they care about what -1022 +1064 +00:51:35,789 --> 00:51:37,019 +they're + +1065 00:51:37,019 --> 00:51:40,590 -building, or if they want to be +building or if they want to be good. And yeah, I just -1023 +1066 00:51:40,590 --> 00:51:43,289 really wanted to build something -where like, everybody wanted to +where, like, everybody wanted to -1024 +1067 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,440 actually make it good. You know, even if it was something that -1025 +1068 00:51:47,010 --> 00:51:48,614 would have just be an internal -tool, or you know, something +tool or, you know, something -1026 +1069 00:51:48,614 --> 00:51:50,218 that's in -1027 +1070 00:51:50,219 --> 00:51:52,409 kind of like a boring industry, like, I still want to make -1028 +1071 00:51:52,409 --> 00:51:54,869 -something that's nice to use and -looks good, and supports +something that's nice to use, +and looks good, and supports -1029 +1072 00:51:54,869 --> 00:51:58,380 -accessibility and all these -things. See, I kind of, I was +accessibility, and all these +things. See? I kind of-- I was -1030 +1073 00:51:58,380 --> 00:52:03,119 definitely more willing to talk to people who seem to care and -1031 +1074 00:52:03,119 --> 00:52:06,449 know a lot about the product and want to continually improve it -1032 +1075 00:52:06,449 --> 00:52:08,909 instead of just, I don't know, make it good enough. -1033 +1076 00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,050 -Dan Ott: Yeah, I think that's, I +Dan: Yeah, I think that's- I think that's great. I feel like -1034 +1077 00:52:13,050 --> 00:52:16,469 -that's usually a good sign that -like, people are invested in it, +that's usually a good sign that, +like, people are invested in it -1035 +1078 00:52:16,530 --> 00:52:18,690 too. And don't have a lot of turnover, you know, if you have -1036 +1079 00:52:18,690 --> 00:52:20,249 -a new, new people that are +a new- new people that are coming and going all the time, -1037 +1080 00:52:20,249 --> 00:52:21,808 -then you +then you can't, -1038 +1081 00:52:21,809 --> 00:52:23,849 -can't like build any connection -to it, right? So, +like, build any connection to +it, right? So-- -1039 +1082 00:52:23,900 --> 00:52:25,174 -Cameron Bardell: Yeah. It's -kinda surprising you. Especially +Cameron: Yeah. It's kinda +surprising you. Especially -1040 +1083 00:52:25,174 --> 00:52:26,448 a lot of the startups -1041 +1084 00:52:26,449 --> 00:52:27,664 -was working at, I thought they -were all like, deeply care +was working at-- I thought they +were all, like, deeply care -1042 +1085 00:52:27,664 --> 00:52:28,879 about, -1043 +1086 00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,219 -like the thing that they're +like, the thing that they're building, but they didn't. -1044 +1087 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:32,899 -Dan Ott: They deep, deeply? -Yeah. Maybe deeply care about +Dan: They deep- deeply? Yeah. +Maybe deeply care about -1045 +1088 00:52:32,899 --> 00:52:34,038 -the project, but, +the project, but-- -1046 +1089 00:52:35,449 --> 00:52:36,079 -Cameron Bardell: Maybe they -deeply care about the money they +Cameron: Maybe they deeply care +about the money they -1047 +1090 00:52:36,079 --> 00:52:36,709 -were making? Yeah. (laugh) +were making? Yeah [laughs]. -1048 +1091 00:52:40,190 --> 00:52:42,739 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Awesome. -Thanks for being here. We really +Bekah: Awesome. Thanks for being +here. We really -1049 +1092 00:52:42,739 --> 00:52:45,739 enjoyed having this conversation. But before we -1050 +1093 00:52:45,739 --> 00:52:49,340 leave, can you let us know if there's anything you're up to? -1051 +1094 00:52:49,340 --> 00:52:51,199 Or how our listeners can find you? -1052 +1095 00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:53,780 -Cameron Bardell: Sure, yeah, you -can always you can find me at +Cameron: Sure, yeah. You can +always-- you can find me at -1053 +1096 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,050 Virtual Coffee, obviously, twice a week. You can find me on -1054 +1097 00:52:57,050 --> 00:53:00,260 Twitter, @CameronBardell. And that's where you can see me -1055 +1098 00:53:00,260 --> 00:53:02,780 -doing most of my stuff, kind of, +doing most of my stuff, kind of. I don't have a lot of time for -1056 +1099 00:53:02,780 --> 00:53:05,030 -doing like open-source work +doing, like, open source work right now. But I hope to get -1057 +1100 00:53:05,059 --> 00:53:07,250 started back up in the next few months. So yeah. -1058 +1101 00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,940 -Rahat Chowdhury: Yeah. You can -also find me on Virtual Coffee. +Rahat: Yeah. You can also find +me on Virtual Coffee. -1059 +1102 00:53:10,940 --> 00:53:14,659 I usually come to the afternoon -meetings. And yeah, I'm on +meetings. And, yeah, I'm on -1060 +1103 00:53:14,929 --> 00:53:19,340 Twitter, @Rahatcodes. And if -you're into open-source and +you're into open source and -1061 +1104 00:53:19,340 --> 00:53:20,449 -stuff definitely looking for +stuff, definitely looking for some contributors to my mental -1062 -00:53:20,449 --> 00:53:21,558 -health - -1063 -00:53:21,559 --> 00:53:23,869 -project. So. Definitely check -that out. +1105 +00:53:20,449 --> 00:53:23,869 +health project. So, definitely +check that out. -1064 +1106 00:53:25,159 --> 00:53:25,519 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Awesome. +Bekah: Awesome. -1065 +1107 00:53:25,519 --> 00:53:26,989 -Dan Ott: That's awesome. Well, -obviously the link of all that - -1066 -00:53:26,989 --> 00:53:28,459 -in +Dan: That's awesome. Well, +obviously, the link of all that -1067 -00:53:28,460 --> 00:53:33,260 -the show notes. Okay, well, +1108 +00:53:26,989 --> 00:53:33,260 +in the show notes. Okay, well, thank you both for joining us. -1068 +1109 00:53:33,980 --> 00:53:37,639 And we will catch up with you -guys on, on Virtual Coffee. +guys on- on Virtual Coffee. -1069 +1110 00:53:38,179 --> 00:53:39,139 -Cameron Bardell: Thanks, guys. -Always great and fun. +Cameron: Thanks, guys. Always +great and fun. -1070 +1111 00:53:40,670 --> 00:53:41,059 -Rahat Chowdhury: Yeah. Thank -you. +Rahat: Yeah. Thank you. -1071 +1112 00:53:46,159 --> 00:53:48,050 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Thank you -for listening to this episode of +Bekah: Thank you for listening +to this episode of -1072 +1113 00:53:48,050 --> 00:53:52,250 the Virtual Coffee podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott -1073 +1114 00:53:52,250 --> 00:53:56,480 and Bekah Hawrot Weigel, and edited by Dan Ott. If you have -1074 +1115 00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,000 questions or comments, you can hit us up on Twitter -1075 +1116 00:53:59,269 --> 00:54:03,739 @VirtualCoffeeIO. Or you can email us at -1076 +1117 00:54:03,769 --> 00:54:07,250 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You -can find the show notes. Plus +can find the show notes. Plus, -1077 +1118 00:54:07,250 --> 00:54:09,469 you can sign up for our newsletter to find out what -1078 +1119 00:54:09,469 --> 00:54:14,300 Virtual Coffee's been up to on our website at virtualcoffee.io. -1079 +1120 00:54:14,869 --> 00:54:18,110 -Dan Ott: Please subscribe to our +Dan: Please subscribe to our podcast and write a review. Next -1080 +1121 00:54:18,110 --> 00:54:21,110 -week we'll have Drew Clements on -the podcast to talk about +week, we'll have Drew Clements +on the podcast to talk about -1081 +1122 00:54:21,139 --> 00:54:23,659 building a career and a community. Thanks for listening -1082 +1123 00:54:23,659 --> 00:54:24,079 everyone. \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/episodes/1_6.srt b/episodes/1_6.srt index ffa96e2..7197b21 100644 --- a/episodes/1_6.srt +++ b/episodes/1_6.srt @@ -1,11 +1,11 @@ 1 00:00:14,099 --> 00:00:16,829 Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Hello, and -welcome to season 1, episode +welcome to Season 1, Episode 2 00:00:16,829 --> 00:00:23,160 -6 of the Virtual Coffee podcast. +6 of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. I'm Bekah, and this is 3 @@ -19,477 +19,477 @@ Virtual Coffee is an intimate group of developers at all 5 -00:00:29,820 --> 00:00:32,850 +00:00:29,820 --> 00:00:31,335 stages of their coding journey. -And they're here on this podcast +And they're here, on this 6 +00:00:31,335 --> 00:00:32,850 +podcast, + +7 00:00:32,850 --> 00:00:36,030 sharing their stories and what they've learned. And we're here -7 +8 00:00:36,030 --> 00:00:39,990 to share it with you. Here with me today is my co-host, Dan. -8 +9 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,759 Dan Ott: Thanks, Bekah. In this episode, you'll hear from Drew -9 +10 00:00:44,789 --> 00:00:48,539 Clements. Drew is a career transitioner, a father of two -10 +11 00:00:48,539 --> 00:00:52,109 and full time developer. And he spends his spare time building -11 +12 00:00:52,140 --> 00:00:55,799 protege.dev and hopes to become a strong advocate for junior -12 +13 00:00:55,799 --> 00:00:59,130 developers everywhere. In this episode, we talk about building -13 +14 00:00:59,130 --> 00:01:02,939 -a career and also Drew's +a career, and also Drew's experience building protege.dev -14 +15 00:01:03,030 --> 00:01:07,290 the platform curated with remote jobs for junior developers. Drew -15 +16 00:01:07,290 --> 00:01:10,560 talks about the struggles of junior level job searching, the -16 +17 00:01:10,590 --> 00:01:13,140 importance of supportive company -culture, and learning and +culture, and learning in -17 +18 00:01:13,140 --> 00:01:14,489 -public, while building Protege. +public while building Protege. -18 +19 00:01:15,150 --> 00:01:17,340 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: We start -every episode of the podcast +Bekah: We start every episode of +the podcast -19 +20 00:01:17,340 --> 00:01:20,700 like we start every Virtual Coffee. We introduce ourselves -20 +21 00:01:20,700 --> 00:01:23,939 with our name, where we're from, what we do, and a random -21 +22 00:01:23,939 --> 00:01:28,079 check-in question. Today's question is, what is the most -22 +23 00:01:28,079 --> 00:01:32,909 beautiful place near where you live? We hope you enjoyed this -23 +24 00:01:32,909 --> 00:01:44,819 episode. Hey, I'm Bekah, I'm a -front end +front-end -24 +25 00:01:41,609 --> 00:01:49,140 developer from a small town in -Ohio and the most beautiful +Ohio, and the most beautiful -25 +26 00:01:44,819 --> 00:01:53,040 place near me, I don't really know. But it snowed a lot last -26 +27 00:01:49,140 --> 00:01:55,950 night. And so all of the pine trees look really, really -27 +28 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:58,170 beautiful. So I'm just gonna go with pine trees covered with -28 +29 00:01:55,950 --> 00:01:58,170 snow. -29 +30 00:01:59,140 --> 00:02:01,930 -Dan Ott: That's awesome. I love -how everything looks with snow +Dan: That's awesome. I love how +everything looks with snow -30 +31 00:02:01,930 --> 00:02:06,670 -on it. Hi, I'm Dan. I am a front -end developer from +on it. Hi, I'm Dan. I am a +front-end developer from -31 +32 00:02:06,700 --> 00:02:09,370 Cleveland, Ohio. I say Cleveland -every time I'm actually from +every time. I'm actually from -32 +33 00:02:09,370 --> 00:02:11,904 -Lakewood, which is first city, +Lakewood, which is first city West of Cleveland. And so there -33 +34 00:02:11,904 --> 00:02:14,438 is a -34 +35 00:02:14,469 --> 00:02:18,849 park called Lakewood Park that's on the lake here. And it's very -35 +36 00:02:18,849 --> 00:02:21,400 -beautiful. There's lots of, it's -big, and there's lots of +beautiful. There's lots of-- +it's big, and there's lots of -36 +37 00:02:21,430 --> 00:02:24,789 cool little spots to hang out. So that's that. -37 +38 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,449 Drew Clements: I'm Drew. I'm a -front end developer with Foster +front-end developer with Foster -38 +39 00:02:30,449 --> 00:02:36,750 Commerce. The most beautiful place near where I live. I live -39 +40 00:02:36,750 --> 00:02:42,270 -in the south. So my options are -limited here. So I'm like five +in the south, so my options are +limited here. So, I'm, like, -40 +41 00:02:42,270 --> 00:02:44,849 -minutes from St. Simons Island. -But the beaches aren't +five minutes from St. Simons +Island. But the beaches aren't -41 +42 00:02:44,849 --> 00:02:48,659 necessarily pretty. They just -have expensive resorts. And I'm +have expensive resorts. And I'm, -42 +43 00:02:48,659 --> 00:02:51,599 -like, I'm just out to Savannah. +like-- I'm just out to Savannah. So they have a pretty rad -43 -00:02:51,599 --> 00:02:54,104 -downtown. But okay, I got one. I -got one. On the other side of - 44 -00:02:54,104 --> 00:02:56,609 -the +00:02:51,599 --> 00:02:54,104 +downtown. But-- okay, I got one. +I got one. On the other side of 45 -00:02:56,610 --> 00:03:00,180 -state from me, which is still -relatively close compared to you +00:02:54,104 --> 00:02:57,142 +the state from me, which is +still relatively close compared 46 +00:02:57,142 --> 00:03:00,180 +to you + +47 00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:04,500 -guys. We have, they call it the +guys. We have-- they call it the little Grand Canyon. It's a -47 +48 00:03:04,500 --> 00:03:07,349 little hiking trail. It really does just look like a miniature -48 +49 00:03:07,349 --> 00:03:08,400 version of the Grand Canyon. -49 +50 00:03:08,650 --> 00:03:11,500 -Dan Ott: Nice. That's cool. That +Dan: Nice. That's cool. That sounds cool. Yeah. -50 +51 00:03:11,710 --> 00:03:16,210 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Vacation -2021. Well, welcome, Drew, we +Bekah: Vacation 2021. Well, +welcome, Drew. We -51 +52 00:03:16,210 --> 00:03:21,370 -are very happy to have you and +are very happy to have you. And fun fact about Drew, he designed -52 +53 00:03:21,370 --> 00:03:24,310 -the Virtual Coffee logo. So +the Virtual Coffee logo. So, thanks for that. -53 +54 00:03:24,930 --> 00:03:25,680 -Drew Clements: I do what I can. -(laugh) +Drew: I do what I can [laughs]. -54 +55 00:03:27,659 --> 00:03:29,819 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: We always -like to start off with the +Bekah: We always like to start +off with the -55 +56 00:03:29,849 --> 00:03:34,530 origin story of how you got into -tech. So can you give us a +tech. So, can you give us a -56 +57 00:03:34,530 --> 00:03:35,129 little background? -57 +58 00:03:37,069 --> 00:03:41,000 -Drew Clements: Yeah, that's, I -feel like my story into tech is +Drew: Yeah, that's-- I feel like +my story into tech is -58 +59 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:47,030 -like a story linked to a story -linked to a story. So growing +like a story linked to a story, +linked to a story. So, growing -59 +60 00:03:47,030 --> 00:03:50,719 up, I played in bunch of punk rock bands. One of the last -60 +61 00:03:50,719 --> 00:03:54,770 bands I played in, I met a guy from the local music scene named -61 +62 00:03:54,770 --> 00:03:58,729 Sean. Sean moved away to California and became a -62 +63 00:03:58,729 --> 00:04:02,044 developer. Right before he did that, I tattooed him. Me -63 +64 00:04:02,044 --> 00:04:05,359 tattooing -64 +65 00:04:05,479 --> 00:04:10,400 landed me in apprenticeship as a designer a few years later, -65 -00:04:11,270 --> 00:04:15,889 -which then let me, that's where -I was kind of introduced to like - 66 +00:04:11,270 --> 00:04:13,579 +which then led me-- that's where +I was kind of introduced to, + +67 +00:04:13,579 --> 00:04:15,888 +like, + +68 00:04:15,889 --> 00:04:20,720 HTML and CSS. So I was like, -hey, I'm learning this stuff. I +"Hey, I'm learning this stuff." -67 +69 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,819 -remember Shawn was doing -something like this. So then I +I remember Sean was doing +something like this. So then, I -68 +70 00:04:22,819 --> 00:04:25,250 reached back out to him. Me and him started kind of talking -69 +71 00:04:25,250 --> 00:04:32,300 again. So from there, I was able to kind of work into a developer -70 +72 00:04:32,300 --> 00:04:40,040 -role with that same company. And -left tattooing. So it's, it's a +role with that same company and +left tattooing. So it's- it's a -71 +73 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,300 guy I met through the local music scene in 2010 ended up -72 +74 00:04:44,300 --> 00:04:49,879 getting me into developing a decade later. Yeah, so I spent -73 +75 00:04:49,879 --> 00:04:53,329 seven years as a tattoo artist, transitioned to graphic design. -74 +76 00:04:53,329 --> 00:04:56,779 From graphic design, I used to -know that Sean, the old +know that Sean—the old -75 +77 00:04:56,779 --> 00:05:02,930 -connection, to get my way here. +connection—to get my way here. And I don't think I could have -76 +78 00:05:02,930 --> 00:05:05,420 made that happen if I had all the money in the world and 10 -77 +79 00:05:05,420 --> 00:05:07,160 years to plan it, but here I am. -78 +80 00:05:08,540 --> 00:05:10,939 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: That's -awesome. So if we ever have a +Bekah: That's awesome. So, if we +ever have a -79 +81 00:05:10,939 --> 00:05:14,300 Virtual Coffee on-site conference, are you going to -80 +82 00:05:14,300 --> 00:05:17,360 offer tattoos? All Virtual Coffee logos? -81 +83 00:05:18,980 --> 00:05:20,300 -Drew Clements: (laugh) Yes, I -will do that. +Drew: [Laughs] Yes, I will do +that. -82 +84 00:05:20,420 --> 00:05:22,579 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: All right, -we have it recorded. So now you +Bekah: All right, we have it +recorded. So now you -83 +85 00:05:22,579 --> 00:05:29,300 -can't back out. Okay, so I'm +can't back out. Okay. So, I'm also want to know about how you -84 +86 00:05:29,300 --> 00:05:34,939 found Virtual Coffee. I feel like I have known you longer, a -85 +87 00:05:34,939 --> 00:05:38,990 lot longer than Virtual Coffee -has been going on. So. But how +has been going on. So-- but how -86 +88 00:05:38,990 --> 00:05:40,850 did you end up at Virtual Coffee? -87 +89 00:05:42,230 --> 00:05:46,459 -Drew Clements: How did I end up -with Virtual Coffee? It's funny +Drew: How did I end up with +Virtual Coffee? It's funny -88 +90 00:05:46,459 --> 00:05:49,370 enough that we're recording this -on a podcast because I met you +on a podcast, because I met you -89 +91 00:05:50,089 --> 00:05:52,879 through reaching out to find people to interview for a -90 +92 00:05:52,879 --> 00:05:57,740 podcast I was going to start. -So, so I have the recording +So- so I have the recording -91 +93 00:05:57,829 --> 00:05:59,720 -actually. I don't know if it, I +actually. I don't know if it- I don't know if it ever got -92 +94 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,860 -editing. I don't (laugh). I just -had it right here on the desk. +editing. I don't [laughs]. I +just had it right here on the -93 +95 00:06:02,860 --> 00:06:06,000 -No. So, I guess in 2019, I was -going to start a +desk. No. So, I guess in 2019, I +was going to start a -94 +96 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,669 podcast, I reached out to you. We connected on Twitter. That -95 -00:06:08,669 --> 00:06:11,338 -never - -96 -00:06:06,139 --> 00:06:14,939 -ended up happening. But we, when - 97 -00:06:11,339 --> 00:06:18,420 -I saw you posting, so at the -beginning of 2020, I was, I was +00:06:08,669 --> 00:06:14,939 +never ended up happening. But +we-- when 98 +00:06:11,339 --> 00:06:18,420 +I saw you posting-- so, at the +beginning of 2020, I was- I was + +99 00:06:14,939 --> 00:06:17,939 working two jobs. I was working full time as a designer, -99 -00:06:17,939 --> 00:06:20,939 -part-time - 100 -00:06:18,420 --> 00:06:23,550 -as a developer. An awesome, both -of those job +00:06:17,939 --> 00:06:23,550 +part-time as a developer. An +awesome-- both of those job 101 00:06:20,939 --> 00:06:27,839 -within like 24 hours of each +within, like, 24 hours of each other. And with a wife that was 102 @@ -504,7 +504,7 @@ was when you'd posted about 104 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:39,329 -Virtual Coffee. So like, you +Virtual Coffee. So, like, you know, I have a lot of spare time 105 @@ -519,18 +519,18 @@ our podcast episode together. So 107 00:06:41,699 --> 00:06:51,689 -I was like, yeah, let me, let me -check this out and see what +I was like, "Yeah, let me- let +me check this out and see what 108 00:06:46,649 --> 00:07:01,800 -happens. And now you can't get -rid of me. (laugh) +happens." And now, you can't get +rid of me [laughs]. 109 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,505 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I think -that podcast episode that I +Bekah: I think that podcast +episode that I 110 00:07:02,505 --> 00:07:05,850 @@ -539,31 +539,31 @@ recorded with you, I had just 111 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:09,029 been working with Dan for a -couple of months. And I like was +couple of months. And I, like, 112 00:07:05,850 --> 00:07:11,550 -still trying to wrap my head +was still trying to wrap my head around things. And I remember 113 00:07:09,029 --> 00:07:14,160 you asking me questions and I -were like, I don't even know the +were like, "I don't even know 114 00:07:11,550 --> 00:07:13,904 -words that I should use to -answer those questions. So... +the words that I should use to +answer those questions." So 115 00:07:13,904 --> 00:07:16,258 -(laugh) +[laughs]-- 116 00:07:17,970 --> 00:07:20,100 -Drew Clements: If it's any -consolation, there's still a lot +Drew: If it's any consolation, +there's still a lot 117 00:07:20,100 --> 00:07:21,404 @@ -572,17 +572,17 @@ I should use to answer 118 00:07:21,404 --> 00:07:22,708 -questions. (laugh) +questions [laughs]. 119 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:24,449 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, -that's for sure. Same. +Bekah: Yeah, that's for sure. +Same. 120 00:07:24,449 --> 00:07:26,774 -Same. (laugh) But it was. It was -like, it was really great +Same. [Laughs] But it was- it +was, like, it was really great 121 00:07:26,774 --> 00:07:29,099 @@ -603,3973 +603,4136 @@ with us today. And at Virtual Coffee. 125 -00:07:40,319 --> 00:07:43,199 -Drew Clements: Happy to be here. -Like I said you can't get rid of +00:07:40,319 --> 00:07:43,379 +Drew: Happy to be here. Like I +said, you can't get rid of me. 126 -00:07:43,199 --> 00:07:43,379 -me. +00:07:45,629 --> 00:07:50,039 +Bekah: [Laughs] Okay. So fast +forward a little bit, 127 -00:07:45,629 --> 00:07:47,834 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: (laugh) Um, -okay, so fast forward a little - -128 -00:07:47,834 --> 00:07:50,039 -bit, - -129 00:07:50,100 --> 00:07:52,380 -you got another job, your career -changer. And you're like, oh +you got another job, you're +career changer. And you're like, -130 +128 00:07:52,380 --> 00:07:54,660 -hey, +"Oh, hey. -131 +129 00:07:54,660 --> 00:08:01,139 I bought this domain called protege.dev. So on top of all of -132 +130 00:08:01,139 --> 00:08:05,069 the other things that I'm doing, -I'm, I'm gonna start this +I'm- I'm gonna start this -133 +131 00:08:05,279 --> 00:08:10,230 -community building project. So, +community building project." So, why and how? -134 -00:08:11,050 --> 00:08:12,999 -Drew Clements: Why and how? -Well, so, I originally bought - -135 -00:08:12,999 --> 00:08:14,948 -the +132 +00:08:11,050 --> 00:08:14,948 +Drew: Why and how? Well, so, I +originally bought the -136 +133 00:08:14,949 --> 00:08:17,334 -Protege domain... To the back up +Protege domain-- to the back up just a little bit. I had an old -137 -00:08:17,334 --> 00:08:19,719 -side - -138 -00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,290 -project called ColtXP. It's a -really bad name. Never name +134 +00:08:17,334 --> 00:08:23,290 +side project called ColtXP. It's +a really bad name. Never name -139 +135 00:08:23,290 --> 00:08:26,800 -anything that ever. But that's +anything that, ever. But that's what the original podcast that I -140 +136 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,339 -interviewed you for, was going -to kind of be in parallel with +interviewed you for was going to +kind of be in parallel with -141 +137 00:08:30,339 --> 00:08:36,789 -that. And so I, I knew that it +that. And so I- I knew that it was a bad name. So I was trying -142 +138 00:08:36,789 --> 00:08:38,679 -to think of something, something +to think of something- something else I could call it. The idea -143 -00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,569 -of - -144 -00:08:40,570 --> 00:08:43,840 -that project was that it was -gonna be pretty much a place +139 +00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:43,840 +of that project was that-- it +was gonna be pretty much a place -145 +140 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,429 where people could connect to work on open source issues -146 +141 00:08:48,429 --> 00:08:51,730 together, kind of like a junior finding a senior willing to, you -147 +142 00:08:51,730 --> 00:08:56,110 know, give them some time. So I -was just trying to think the, +was just trying to think the- -148 +143 00:08:56,139 --> 00:09:01,929 -the name ColtXP, uhm... I think -I just used like a Thesaurus or +the name ColtXP-- I think I just +used, like, a Thesaurus or -149 +144 00:09:01,929 --> 00:09:04,539 -something like, what's another +something. Like, what's another word for someone that's learning -150 +145 00:09:04,539 --> 00:09:08,259 something or something like that. And Colt was somehow on -151 +146 00:09:08,259 --> 00:09:10,539 that list. It was like an inexperienced person or -152 +147 00:09:10,539 --> 00:09:15,190 something like that. Again, horrible name. Don't ever call -153 +148 00:09:15,190 --> 00:09:21,909 anything yet. So I came across the word protege, you know, -154 +149 00:09:21,940 --> 00:09:25,210 pretty obvious. I don't know why I didn't think of it in the -155 +150 00:09:25,210 --> 00:09:29,230 first place. So I was looking around on different domains. -156 +151 00:09:29,259 --> 00:09:32,139 Actually, no. I went to Netlify. -And I was like, let me see if +And I was like, "Let me see if -157 +152 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,769 -protege.com is available. +protege.com is available." Obviously, it wasn't. So I was -158 +153 00:09:35,769 --> 00:09:39,580 -like, let me see if protege.dev -is available. It was. For 15 +like, "Let me see if protege.dev +is available." It was. For 15 -159 -00:09:39,580 --> 00:09:44,590 -bucks. I was like that's not bad -at all. So I hit the next button +154 +00:09:39,580 --> 00:09:42,085 +bucks. I was like, "That's not +bad at all." So I hit the next -160 +155 +00:09:42,085 --> 00:09:44,590 +button, + +156 00:09:44,590 --> 00:09:48,460 -expecting there to be like +expecting there to be, like, insert payment information. And -161 -00:09:48,460 --> 00:09:51,715 -it said, congratulations. I was -like uh... okay. I guess this is - -162 -00:09:51,715 --> 00:09:54,970 -a +157 +00:09:48,460 --> 00:09:54,970 +it said "Congratulations". I was +like, "Okay. I guess this is a -163 +158 00:09:54,970 --> 00:09:59,799 thing now. So I kind of went -back and forth on do I want to +back and forth on, "Do I want to -164 +159 00:09:59,799 --> 00:10:03,669 make that something new with -that name, do I want to rebrand +that name? Do I want to rebrand -165 -00:10:03,669 --> 00:10:09,399 -the old project under Protege, -which was the original idea. But +160 +00:10:03,669 --> 00:10:06,534 +the old project under +Protege—which was the original -166 +161 +00:10:06,534 --> 00:10:09,399 +idea?" But + +162 00:10:09,399 --> 00:10:15,669 -then, but then COVID happened, -and I lost, I lost both of those +then- but then COVID happened, +and I lost- I lost both of those -167 +163 00:10:15,669 --> 00:10:18,340 -jobs. So I think, I think I +jobs. So I think- I think I accidentally bought the domain -168 +164 00:10:19,029 --> 00:10:24,970 -in February and then in March +in February, and then in March was when I lost work. So, you -169 +165 00:10:24,970 --> 00:10:27,039 -know, I was looking, I lost +know, I was looking-- I lost work, so I was looking at all -170 +166 00:10:27,039 --> 00:10:29,470 the job boards all the time. And it was, you know, you see -171 +167 00:10:29,470 --> 00:10:33,700 senior, senior, senior lead, -tech lead, bla bla bla bla. And +tech lead, bla bla bla. And -172 +168 00:10:33,700 --> 00:10:36,700 -I was like, there's like, -there's nothing, it's so +I was like, "There's, like, +there's nothing-- it's so -173 +169 00:10:36,700 --> 00:10:40,360 hard to find anything for -someone at my skill level. So I +someone at my skill level." So I -174 +170 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,370 -was like, you know what? I'm +was like, "You know what? I'm just gonna build the job board -175 +171 00:10:42,370 --> 00:10:47,980 -that I wish I had. And that's, +that I wish I had." And that's- that's kind of how it ended up -176 +172 00:10:47,980 --> 00:10:53,710 -getting started. I lost, I lost +getting started. I lost- I lost my job and gave myself a new -177 +173 00:10:53,710 --> 00:10:57,159 -one (laugh). A new one that +one [laughs]. A new one that doesn't pay anything. -178 -00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,169 -Dan Ott: I love that, I love the -idea of like, you just, you have +174 +00:10:58,320 --> 00:10:59,744 +Dan: I love that. I love the +idea of, like, you just-- you -179 +175 +00:10:59,744 --> 00:11:01,168 +have + +176 00:11:01,169 --> 00:11:05,669 a problem, you know, and so you -just decided to fix it (laugh), +just decided to fix it [laughs]- -180 +177 00:11:06,779 --> 00:11:07,529 to fix it yourself, right? -181 +178 00:11:07,678 --> 00:11:09,239 -Drew Clements: That's, that's -pretty much what happened. +Drew: That's- that's pretty much +what happened. -182 +179 00:11:09,568 --> 00:11:12,568 -Dan Ott: Yeah, it's amazing. And -then on top of that, you know, +Dan: Yeah, it's amazing. And +then, on top of that, you know- -183 +180 00:11:12,568 --> 00:11:14,639 you know you're going to gain experience for yourself, you -184 +181 00:11:14,639 --> 00:11:20,308 know? And building it, right? We were just talking to Vic. And -185 +182 00:11:20,339 --> 00:11:23,458 he's talking about a lot of this sort of the same thing, right? -186 -00:11:23,458 --> 00:11:26,519 -Like the, he frames it a little -differently. But the indie, you +183 +00:11:23,458 --> 00:11:24,988 +Like, the-- he frames it a +little differently. But the -187 +184 +00:11:24,988 --> 00:11:26,518 +indie, you + +185 00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:30,418 know, indie hacking mentality, -right? Of, you have a problem. +right, of you have a problem. -188 +186 00:11:30,418 --> 00:11:34,019 And so instead of, I don't know, -wandering around, or just being +wandering around or just being -189 +187 00:11:34,019 --> 00:11:37,288 -sad, you know, right? Like, you -just kind of go and, go and dive +sad, you know? Right? Like, you +just kind of go and- go and dive -190 +188 00:11:37,288 --> 00:11:41,788 into it, right? And hopefully, it becomes a successful product. -191 -00:11:41,788 --> 00:11:44,609 +189 +00:11:41,788 --> 00:11:43,198 And also, you know, you're -giving yourself like, experience +giving yourself, like, + +190 +00:11:43,198 --> 00:11:44,608 +experience, + +191 +00:11:44,609 --> 00:11:45,718 +and scratching your own itch, +and all that stuff. That's 192 -00:11:44,609 --> 00:11:46,828 -and scratching your own itch and -all that stuff. That's great. +00:11:45,718 --> 00:11:46,827 +great. 193 00:11:46,860 --> 00:11:50,549 -Drew Clements: Yeah, the, when I -first started out on Protege, my +Drew: Yeah, the-- when I first +started out on Protege, my 194 -00:11:50,549 --> 00:11:55,110 -mindset was, you know, I'm going -to build this thing in React, I +00:11:50,549 --> 00:11:52,829 +mindset was, you know, "I'm +going to build this thing in 195 -00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:59,429 -need, I needed a React project -on my portfolio. So I told +00:11:52,829 --> 00:11:55,109 +React. I 196 +00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:59,429 +need-- I needed a React project +on my portfolio." So I told + +197 00:11:59,429 --> 00:12:03,120 -myself, like, I'm gonna, I'm +myself, like, "I'm gonna- I'm gonna build this out. And if it -197 +198 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,860 works, awesome. If not, then I have something on a resume that -198 -00:12:07,950 --> 00:12:11,460 +199 +00:12:07,950 --> 00:12:09,705 will maybe at least helped get -me hired, which it actually did, +me hired," which it actually -199 +200 +00:12:09,705 --> 00:12:11,460 +did, + +201 00:12:11,490 --> 00:12:14,129 -fairly, fairly early on. So I +fairly- fairly early on. So I think I started building it in -200 +202 00:12:14,129 --> 00:12:19,440 March. And either at the end of March or early April, I was -201 +203 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,250 connected with a company called -Layer Frame out of Florida, +Layer Frame out of Florida. -202 +204 00:12:23,279 --> 00:12:28,740 -super awesome team. And the +Super awesome team. And the workout done on Protege, even at -203 +205 00:12:28,740 --> 00:12:33,450 that point, before it was even done. Just the fact that I was -204 +206 00:12:33,509 --> 00:12:36,870 doing that, you know, building that product, but also the work -205 +207 00:12:36,870 --> 00:12:40,334 I'd put into it myself, pretty much jumping in blind was one -206 +208 00:12:40,334 --> 00:12:43,798 -of, +of- -207 +209 00:12:43,799 --> 00:12:46,529 one of the reasons that they can even consider to bring me on -208 +210 00:12:46,529 --> 00:12:50,399 the team. So it saved me almost immediately. -209 +211 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:53,669 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I think -that's so great. I think there's +Bekah: I think that's so great. +I think there's -210 +212 00:12:53,730 --> 00:12:58,919 a tendency when you are starting out as an entry level dev to -211 +213 00:12:58,919 --> 00:13:01,620 just keep going through the tutorials, right? And there's -212 +214 00:13:01,620 --> 00:13:05,039 nothing wrong with that. But there's so many different people -213 +215 00:13:05,039 --> 00:13:08,399 that are doing those same projects. So if you're able to -214 +216 00:13:08,399 --> 00:13:11,309 do something where you're building something that you're -215 +217 00:13:11,309 --> 00:13:14,279 -interested in, or something that +interested in or something that solves a problem for you, you're -216 +218 00:13:14,279 --> 00:13:17,490 a little bit invested in it, but -it also shows that, hey, look, +it also shows that, "Hey, look," -217 -00:13:17,490 --> 00:13:21,360 -you know, I tackled this -problem, and I kept adding to it +219 +00:13:17,490 --> 00:13:19,425 +you know, "I tackled this +problem, and I kept adding to -218 -00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:25,259 -and growing with it. And I think -that really shows, you know, a +220 +00:13:19,425 --> 00:13:21,360 +it, -219 +221 +00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,309 +and growing with it." And I +think that really shows, you + +222 +00:13:23,309 --> 00:13:25,258 +know, a + +223 00:13:25,259 --> 00:13:28,049 really good representation of who you are as a coder. -220 +224 00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:35,110 -Dan Ott: Yeah, you mentioned -like, when you were describing +Dan: Yeah, you mentioned, like, +when you were describing -221 +225 00:13:35,110 --> 00:13:37,134 talking to the company who hired you after that, that you went -222 +226 00:13:37,134 --> 00:13:39,158 into -223 +227 00:13:39,159 --> 00:13:42,970 -the, the Protege project going -in blind. And I was, I was +the- the Protege project going +in blind. And I was- I was -224 -00:13:42,970 --> 00:13:46,360 -wondering, like, what you like, -in hindsight, like, what do you +228 +00:13:42,970 --> 00:13:44,665 +wondering, like, what you-- +like, in hindsight, like, what -225 +229 +00:13:44,665 --> 00:13:46,360 +do you + +230 00:13:46,809 --> 00:13:48,879 -think of when you say that, -like, what pieces were you +think of when you say that? +Like, what pieces were you -226 +231 00:13:48,879 --> 00:13:52,659 missing, you know? Now that you've gone through the whole -227 +232 00:13:52,659 --> 00:13:56,019 process, and it's been a product, you know, for however -228 +233 00:13:56,019 --> 00:13:57,474 long, I just looked at my watch to see what month it was. I -229 +234 00:13:57,474 --> 00:13:58,929 don't know -230 +235 00:13:58,929 --> 00:14:00,294 what I'm doing. But, you know, -it's, it's been a, you know, - -231 -00:14:00,294 --> 00:14:01,659 -it's +it's- it's been a, you know, -232 -00:14:01,659 --> 00:14:03,789 -been live for how many months? - -233 -00:14:03,789 --> 00:14:04,614 -Drew Clements: Coming up on a -year. I think March will be a +236 +00:14:00,294 --> 00:14:03,789 +it's been live for how many +months? -234 -00:14:04,614 --> 00:14:05,439 -year. +237 +00:14:03,789 --> 00:14:05,439 +Drew: Coming up on a year. I +think March will be a year. -235 +238 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:11,049 -Dan Ott: Okay, yeah. So I guess -my question is (laugh), my +Dan: Okay, yeah. So, I guess, my +question is [laughs]- my -236 -00:14:11,049 --> 00:14:13,299 -question is like, what, what do -you know, now that like, would +239 +00:14:11,049 --> 00:14:12,174 +question is, like, what- what +do-- you know, now that, like, -237 -00:14:13,299 --> 00:14:16,240 +240 +00:14:12,174 --> 00:14:13,299 +would + +241 +00:14:13,299 --> 00:14:14,769 change your approach, if -anything, you know? If you would +anything-- you know, if you -238 +242 +00:14:14,769 --> 00:14:16,239 +would + +243 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,210 -start, if you were starting +start-- if you were starting protege.dev right now? -239 +244 00:14:19,450 --> 00:14:22,195 -Drew Clements: How much time do -you have? (laugh) It was, so, +Drew: How much time do you have? +[Laughs] It was-- so, -240 +245 00:14:22,195 --> 00:14:24,940 the initial -241 +246 00:14:24,940 --> 00:14:29,679 build was just a regular Create -React App. That was intentional, +React App. That was intentional -242 +247 00:14:29,679 --> 00:14:32,110 because I wanted to force myself to learn some of the lower level -243 +248 00:14:32,110 --> 00:14:40,419 plumbing. I wish I would have known more about state -244 +249 00:14:40,419 --> 00:14:45,850 -management in React. Like I -kinda... So, right before this +management in React. Like, I +kinda-- so, right before this -245 +250 00:14:45,850 --> 00:14:47,710 episode, we were talking about -how some of the, some of the +how some of the- some of the -246 +251 00:14:47,710 --> 00:14:51,370 parts of it are really just a juggling act until, you know, it -247 +252 00:14:51,370 --> 00:14:58,419 either dies or does what it's -supposed to do. So I think, if I +supposed to do. So, I think, if -248 +253 00:14:58,419 --> 00:15:00,370 -would have known a little bit +I would have known a little bit more around that, that could -249 -00:15:00,370 --> 00:15:05,080 -have been, I don't think it's an -unstable system. But it's not as +254 +00:15:00,370 --> 00:15:02,725 +have been-- I don't think it's +an unstable system. But it's not -250 +255 +00:15:02,725 --> 00:15:05,080 +as + +256 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,840 good as it can be. And I'm actually in the process of -251 +257 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:14,110 rewriting some of that work now. And I expect I'm going to be -252 +258 00:15:14,110 --> 00:15:18,250 able to eliminate probably about 40% of what's there now, and -253 +259 00:15:18,250 --> 00:15:22,539 have something that works better in, you know, with better -254 +260 00:15:22,539 --> 00:15:26,830 practices in place at the same -time. Also I didn't really know +time. Also, I didn't really know -255 +261 00:15:26,830 --> 00:15:29,184 -much about, like component -systems, like I knew what +much about, like, component +systems. Like, I knew what -256 +262 00:15:29,184 --> 00:15:31,538 components -257 +263 00:15:31,539 --> 00:15:35,200 were, but I didn't really have a good idea of how to utilize them -258 +264 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,539 correctly, which is another thing I've been kind of cleaning -259 +265 00:15:37,539 --> 00:15:40,779 up as I've been doing this rebuild. We're converting from -260 +266 00:15:40,899 --> 00:15:47,080 -React, Create React App to Next -right now. So I mean, even just +React-- Create React App to Next +right now. So, I mean, even just -261 +267 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,149 last night, I was looking at -some stuff like why didn't I +some stuff, like, why didn't I -262 +268 00:15:49,149 --> 00:15:52,299 just make this a component rather than pasting it seven -263 +269 00:15:52,330 --> 00:15:57,519 times in the same place? Yeah. -So, just, just little stuff like +So, just- just little stuff like -264 +270 00:15:57,519 --> 00:15:57,909 that. -265 +271 00:15:58,678 --> 00:16:00,568 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: It's -interesting. I used to write +Bekah: It's interesting. I used +to write -266 +272 00:16:00,568 --> 00:16:03,989 screenplays with my brother. And one of the first bits of advice -267 -00:16:03,989 --> 00:16:07,828 -someone told me or I heard, it -was write your whole screenplay, +273 +00:16:03,989 --> 00:16:05,908 +someone told me—or I heard—it +was, "Write your whole -268 -00:16:07,859 --> 00:16:11,818 -and then cut 50% and then -rewrite it. And like, as you're +274 +00:16:05,908 --> 00:16:07,827 +screenplay, -269 -00:16:11,818 --> 00:16:15,629 +275 +00:16:07,859 --> 00:16:09,838 +and then cut 50%, and then +rewrite it." And, like, as + +276 +00:16:09,838 --> 00:16:11,817 +you're + +277 +00:16:11,818 --> 00:16:13,723 talking through this, that kind -of makes sense to me in terms of +of makes sense to me in terms -270 +278 +00:16:13,723 --> 00:16:15,628 +of, + +279 00:16:15,629 --> 00:16:18,778 like, okay, you have something down and you learned a lot in -271 +280 00:16:18,778 --> 00:16:22,078 that first process. But what you learn should enable you to -272 +281 00:16:22,259 --> 00:16:25,469 really tighten things up and getting it working efficiently -273 +282 00:16:25,469 --> 00:16:28,649 -or, or making it an effective -story and codes not that +or- or making it an effective +story. And codes not that -274 +283 00:16:28,649 --> 00:16:29,548 different from that. -275 +284 00:16:30,980 --> 00:16:34,039 -Drew Clements: Yeah, that was -what Andy's, the co-founder, he +Drew: Yeah, that was what +Andy's—the co-founder—he -276 +285 00:16:34,039 --> 00:16:38,059 came on really early on with me. -One, one thing we were very +One- one thing we were very -277 +286 00:16:38,059 --> 00:16:41,299 adamant about when we were starting up was that we're going -278 +287 00:16:41,299 --> 00:16:48,470 to try to build as much of this -as possible without a library, +as possible without a library -279 +288 00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:52,129 -if we can. So that's why, that's +if we can. So that's why- that's why a lot of the state -280 +289 00:16:52,129 --> 00:16:55,009 management with some of the forms are a bit of a juggling -281 +290 00:16:55,009 --> 00:16:57,919 act, because we knew there was, you know, Redux and other things -282 +291 00:16:57,919 --> 00:17:02,570 like that out there. But we wanted to kind of put ourselves -283 +292 00:17:02,570 --> 00:17:06,619 in the uncomfortable position of having to build it, the only -284 +293 00:17:06,859 --> 00:17:10,670 having to build it with whatever -we had available to us then, +we had available to us then -285 +294 00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:13,849 without grabbing something off -the shelf. And... I mean, he +the shelf. And-- I mean, he -286 -00:17:13,849 --> 00:17:16,669 -would +295 +00:17:13,849 --> 00:17:17,374 +would probably agree, we both +probably-- we learned- we -287 -00:17:16,670 --> 00:17:20,900 -probably agree, we both -probably, we learned, we learned +296 +00:17:17,374 --> 00:17:20,899 +learned -288 +297 00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:24,950 a lot of wrong ways to handle state React. We learned a -289 +298 00:17:24,950 --> 00:17:27,890 lot of ways that you can do it, but probably aren't ideal. And -290 +299 00:17:27,890 --> 00:17:31,025 -now we're, now we're getting +now we're- now we're getting into the phase of, you know, -291 +300 00:17:31,025 --> 00:17:34,160 -now, now +now- now -292 +301 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,440 we can do it the right way with an understanding of why it's the -293 +302 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:36,950 right way. -294 +303 00:17:37,799 --> 00:17:43,109 -Dan Ott: Yeah, that enable that, +Dan: Yeah, that enable that- that agreement at the beginning, -295 -00:17:43,140 --> 00:17:46,319 +304 +00:17:43,140 --> 00:17:44,729 and between you and your partner -was is like, a very, very cool +was-- is, like, a very, very -296 +305 +00:17:44,729 --> 00:17:46,318 +cool + +306 00:17:46,319 --> 00:17:49,500 thing to do. Especially, you know, it's nice to have -297 +307 00:17:50,069 --> 00:17:51,989 alignment and that sort of thing, you know? But I mean, I -298 +308 00:17:51,989 --> 00:17:53,909 -always, +always- -299 +309 00:17:53,940 --> 00:17:57,180 -always, always say the best way +always- always say the best way to learn anything, on any sort -300 +310 00:17:57,180 --> 00:17:59,970 of deep level is to do it, just like you guys have done. And -301 +311 00:18:00,150 --> 00:18:01,829 state management in particular, -I mean like, a lot of things are +I mean, like, a lot of things -302 +312 00:18:01,829 --> 00:18:03,508 -like +are like -303 +313 00:18:03,509 --> 00:18:05,219 this. But state management is one of those, where there's a -304 +314 00:18:05,219 --> 00:18:06,929 million -305 -00:18:06,930 --> 00:18:12,750 +315 +00:18:06,930 --> 00:18:09,840 ways to do it. None of them are -right or wrong, really. And the, +right or wrong, really. And -306 +316 +00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,750 +the-- + +317 00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:16,559 -but you never really, you never +but you never really-- you never gonna have actual full insight -307 +318 00:18:16,559 --> 00:18:20,160 -into why you, why to make one +into why you-- why to make one choice or the other. Why to use -308 +319 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:25,890 Redux versus, you know, anything -else. It, by reading tutorials, +else. It-- by reading tutorials, -309 +320 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,900 you're never gonna figure it -out, right? Like, you're never +out, right? Like, you're never, -310 +321 00:18:27,900 --> 00:18:30,779 -like, somebody could say use -Redux for this x, y and z, you +like, somebody could say, "Use +Redux for this x, y and z," you -311 -00:18:30,779 --> 00:18:34,769 -know? Don't use Redux here, you -know, and you could sort of try +322 +00:18:30,779 --> 00:18:32,774 +know? "Don't use Redux here," +you know? And you could sort of -312 +323 +00:18:32,774 --> 00:18:34,769 +try + +324 00:18:34,769 --> 00:18:37,859 to follow them. But you're never -gonna, you don't understand why +gonna-- you don't understand why -313 +325 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:42,480 until you've gone down the road of hacking it together, and then -314 +326 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,180 getting to the spot where you're -like, okay, this, I see now. +like, "Okay, this-- I see now." -315 +327 00:18:45,180 --> 00:18:47,609 -Like, this is not working out, +Like, "This is not working out, or this is like more of a pain -316 -00:18:47,609 --> 00:18:50,400 -than it should be, or, you know, -or whatever. Or I don't trust it +328 +00:18:47,609 --> 00:18:49,004 +than it should be, or," you +know, or whatever. Or, "I don't -317 -00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,180 -as much, which is, which is one -of the, like, one of the, one of +329 +00:18:49,004 --> 00:18:50,399 +trust it -318 +330 +00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,290 +as much," which is- which is one +of the-- like, one of the- one + +331 +00:18:52,290 --> 00:18:54,180 +of + +332 00:18:54,180 --> 00:18:57,269 the things that's hard to explain until you feel it, -319 +333 00:18:57,269 --> 00:18:59,730 -right? So you have that, you're +right? So you have that-- you're talking about that form state. -320 +334 00:19:00,150 --> 00:19:03,900 -And just not like, you know, it -can be better, you know, like, +And just not, like, you know, it +can be better, you know? Like, -321 +335 00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:06,180 it's working and stuff, but you -know, like, there's some, +know, like, there's some- -322 +336 00:19:06,660 --> 00:19:09,720 there's some area where it's not exactly sure what's going on or -323 +337 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,930 can't track, you know, all the different pieces of state or all -324 +338 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,894 the different, you know, figures -(??) that go on. Like, that's - -325 -00:19:14,894 --> 00:19:16,828 -really - -326 -00:19:16,829 --> 00:19:17,190 -great. +[??] that go on. Like, that's -327 -00:19:17,490 --> 00:19:18,450 -Drew Clements: Yeah, and even -when we're, even while I'm +339 +00:19:14,894 --> 00:19:17,190 +really great. -328 -00:19:18,450 --> 00:19:19,410 -coming +340 +00:19:17,490 --> 00:19:19,410 +Drew: Yeah. And even when +we're-- even while I'm coming -329 +341 00:19:19,410 --> 00:19:26,880 through it now, I'm realizing, I'm kind of reflecting back on -330 +342 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,549 -where I was last year, and like -I can kind of like see the +where I was last year, and, +like, I can kind of like see the -331 +343 00:19:29,549 --> 00:19:31,574 growth that I've had over the -last year. It's like, as I'm, as +last year. It's, like, as I'm-- -332 +344 00:19:31,574 --> 00:19:33,599 -I +as I -333 +345 00:19:33,599 --> 00:19:36,150 rebuilding part to this, I'm -looking at, I'm looking at some +looking at- I'm looking at some -334 -00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:38,940 -of the state and I'm like, okay, -this, this definitely needs to +346 +00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:37,545 +of the state, and I'm like, +"Okay, this- this definitely -335 +347 +00:19:37,545 --> 00:19:38,940 +needs to + +348 00:19:38,940 --> 00:19:41,849 be, you know, handled somewhere else in a more safer way. But -336 +349 00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:45,779 this is actually perfectly fine to just be, you know, in this -337 +350 00:19:45,779 --> 00:19:47,909 one component, and that's all it -needs. And it's... I don't know. +needs." And it's-- I don't know. -338 +351 00:19:47,909 --> 00:19:50,039 -I, +I-- -339 -00:19:50,369 --> 00:19:54,569 -me a year ago would be like so -jealous of me right now (laugh), +352 +00:19:50,369 --> 00:19:52,469 +me, a year ago, would be, like, +so jealous of me right now -340 +353 +00:19:52,469 --> 00:19:54,569 +[laughs], + +354 00:19:54,569 --> 00:19:59,400 -that I'm like able to set them -in a position to like to +that I'm, like, able to set them +in a position to, like, to -341 +355 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,890 know the difference of one and why. -342 +356 00:20:02,099 --> 00:20:03,630 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I think -that's a really good point too, +Bekah: I think that's a really +good point too, -343 +357 00:20:03,630 --> 00:20:07,019 because there's always this tricky thing where you feel -344 -00:20:07,019 --> 00:20:10,380 -like, oh, I have not, I haven't -grown enough. But look, you're +358 +00:20:07,019 --> 00:20:08,699 +like, "Oh, I have not-- I +haven't grown enough." But look, -345 +359 +00:20:08,699 --> 00:20:10,379 +you're + +360 00:20:10,380 --> 00:20:13,349 talking about this one year journey and how much you've -346 +361 00:20:13,349 --> 00:20:15,569 learned, you know? You've grown a lot through that. And -347 +362 00:20:15,569 --> 00:20:19,079 -sometimes it feels very slow. -But really, you're, you're +sometimes, it feels very slow. +But really, you're- you're -348 +363 00:20:19,079 --> 00:20:19,950 moving a ton. -349 +364 00:20:21,279 --> 00:20:24,160 -Drew Clements: Yeah, and this is -actually my, this is my first +Drew: Yeah. And this is actually +my-- this is my first -350 -00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,025 +365 +00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:29,890 year as a full time developer. -So before this, I was either, - -351 -00:20:27,025 --> 00:20:29,890 -um... I +So before this, I was either-- -352 +366 00:20:29,890 --> 00:20:32,380 -was working part time, which +I was working part-time, which was, you know, like, maybe 15 -353 +367 00:20:32,410 --> 00:20:35,289 hours after I got done with a -full time job. So like, you +full time job. So, like, you -354 -00:20:35,289 --> 00:20:36,669 +368 +00:20:35,289 --> 00:20:38,049 know, I was already probably coming in at, like, 60% mental -355 -00:20:36,669 --> 00:20:38,049 -(??) - -356 +369 00:20:38,049 --> 00:20:45,940 -capacity. And then the job I had -in the agency before that, +[??] capacity. And then, the job +I had in the agency before that, -357 +370 00:20:45,940 --> 00:20:49,750 it was a developer role, but it -was, it was with a bunch of +was- it was with a bunch of -358 +371 00:20:49,750 --> 00:20:53,950 proprietary stuff, and some -older languages. So like, a lot +older languages. So, like, a lot -359 +372 00:20:53,950 --> 00:20:55,614 -of it didn't really... So I +of it didn't really-- so, I mean, a lot of it was just -360 +373 00:20:55,614 --> 00:20:57,278 customer -361 +374 00:20:57,279 --> 00:21:03,190 support to begin with. And the smaller majority after that was, -362 +375 00:21:04,089 --> 00:21:09,039 -you know, it was in, in such a +you know, it was in- in such a sandboxed and specific place -363 +376 00:21:09,039 --> 00:21:14,170 that a lot of it couldn't really -translate over. What I, one +translate over. What I-- one -364 +377 00:21:14,170 --> 00:21:16,420 thing I wanted to double back on -you said there, the, the +you said there, the- the -365 +378 00:21:16,420 --> 00:21:20,829 alignment between me and Andy, a lot of that was able to happen -366 +379 00:21:20,829 --> 00:21:23,199 -was because, I mean, I was, I +was because-- I mean, I was- I was very junior when I just -367 +380 00:21:23,199 --> 00:21:25,569 decided -368 +381 00:21:25,569 --> 00:21:30,400 to go full tilt on this, but Andy was the same way. Andy -369 +382 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,549 was working full time as a -project manager, you know. He +project manager, you know? He -370 +383 00:21:33,549 --> 00:21:35,619 -had written some code before, I +had written some code before. I don't know the full extent of -371 +384 00:21:35,619 --> 00:21:40,750 -his, of his experience before -that. But when he approached me, +his- of his experience before +that, but when he approached me, -372 +385 00:21:40,750 --> 00:21:43,150 -he was like, hey, I've had a +he was like, "Hey, I've had a similar idea. I'm kind of in the -373 -00:21:43,150 --> 00:21:48,339 -same spot. So when, when we were -kind of like spitballing ideas, +386 +00:21:43,150 --> 00:21:45,744 +same spot." So when- when we +were kind of like spitballing -374 +387 +00:21:45,744 --> 00:21:48,338 +ideas, + +388 00:21:48,339 --> 00:21:51,730 -we were like, you know, let's -keep it simple, check. Let's +we were like, you know, "Let's +keep it simple. Check. Let's -375 +389 00:21:51,759 --> 00:21:55,450 build as much as we can without -libraries, check. So I think, I +libraries. Check." So I think- I -376 +390 00:21:55,450 --> 00:21:59,500 think part of the reason we were able to align on so many things -377 +391 00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:03,609 in the beginning is that we -were, for the most part in +were—for the most part—in -378 +392 00:22:03,759 --> 00:22:09,400 pretty much the exact same spot, -career wise. Shout out to Andy, +career wise. Shoutout to Andy, -379 +393 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,950 by the way. He just started full time as a developer, I think, -380 +394 00:22:11,950 --> 00:22:15,250 -within the last few weeks. So +within the last few weeks. So, congrats on that. -381 +395 00:22:15,509 --> 00:22:16,259 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, for -sure. +Bekah: Yeah, for sure. -382 +396 00:22:16,259 --> 00:22:17,009 -Dan Ott: Congrats to Andy. +Dan: Congrats to Andy. -383 +397 00:22:17,279 --> 00:22:25,529 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Andy is -also very awesome. Okay, so +Bekah: Andy is also very +awesome. Okay. So, -384 +398 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:29,250 simultaneously, you are establishing a career as an -385 +399 00:22:25,559 --> 00:22:34,259 early career developer, and you are tackling a big problem in -386 +400 00:22:29,250 --> 00:22:37,710 -the industry, right? So can we +the industry, right? So, can we talk a little bit about the -387 +401 00:22:34,259 --> 00:22:38,430 challenges of balancing both of those things? -388 +402 00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:44,029 -Drew Clements: Um, I don't know -if there's a balance as much as +Drew: I don't know if there's a +balance as much as I just -389 +403 00:22:44,059 --> 00:22:47,419 -I just put as much weight on -both all the time (laugh). Which +put as much weight on both all +the time [laughs]. Which -390 +404 00:22:47,419 --> 00:22:50,779 is why -391 +405 00:22:50,779 --> 00:22:52,924 -I'm probably on like, a beeline +I'm probably on, like, a beeline to burnout at some point -392 +406 00:22:52,924 --> 00:22:55,069 -(laugh). I +[laughs]. I -393 +407 00:22:55,069 --> 00:22:58,849 -don't know. It's, I don't know, +don't know. It's-- I don't know. I haven't really thought about -394 +408 00:22:58,849 --> 00:23:01,819 it. There's not much for -balance. Or I guess I don't +balance. Or I guess, I don't -395 +409 00:23:01,819 --> 00:23:06,349 really have a process for -balancing it. So like, I'm +balancing it. So, like, I'm -396 +410 00:23:06,349 --> 00:23:09,289 really bad about saying yes when -people ask me for stuff. So +people ask me for stuff. So, -397 +411 00:23:09,650 --> 00:23:14,089 like, I joined up with Layer -Frame. And then, thanks to a +Frame. And then—thanks to a -398 +412 00:23:14,089 --> 00:23:17,089 -tweet that you sent out Bekah, I +tweet that you sent out, Bekah—I was propositioned for some other -399 +413 00:23:17,089 --> 00:23:20,809 contract work that ended up -happening like right alongside +happening, like, right alongside -400 +414 00:23:20,809 --> 00:23:25,700 -that. That turned into the full -time role that I have now. So +that that turned into the full +time role that I have now. So, -401 +415 00:23:25,700 --> 00:23:28,730 -I'm like, okay, cool. I won't -have two jobs anymore. Like a +I'm like, "Okay, cool. I won't +have two jobs anymore." Like, a -402 +416 00:23:28,730 --> 00:23:30,274 -month after that someone else -was like, hey, I got some +month after that, someone else +was like, "Hey, I got some -403 +417 00:23:30,274 --> 00:23:31,818 -contract, +contract-- -404 +418 00:23:31,819 --> 00:23:33,319 -or do you want to jump in on? -I'm like, absolutely (laugh). +or do you want to jump in on?" +I'm like, "Absolutely! [Laughs] -405 +419 00:23:33,319 --> 00:23:34,819 -Let's do it. +Let's do it." -406 +420 00:23:35,930 --> 00:23:42,289 -So. I've had a bad habit of +So, I've had a bad habit of keeping two jobs. -407 +421 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,089 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah. It's -so hard to balance. I'm not, I'm +Bekah: Yeah. It's so hard to +balance. I'm not-- I'm -408 +422 00:23:45,089 --> 00:23:47,430 certainly not good at that either. And that's one of the -409 +423 00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:50,549 -things that I'm working at +things that I'm working at, figuring out I like go through -410 +424 00:23:50,549 --> 00:23:54,900 -these cycles. I'm like, all in -for six weeks. And then for an +these cycles. I'm, like, all in +for six weeks. And then, for an -411 +425 00:23:54,900 --> 00:23:58,950 -entire week I feel like I can't +entire week, I feel like I can't move. And that's obviously not -412 +426 00:23:58,950 --> 00:24:00,614 -healthy (laugh). I'm trying to +healthy [laughs]. I'm trying to find better ways of doing that. -413 +427 00:24:00,614 --> 00:24:02,278 But -414 +428 00:24:02,279 --> 00:24:05,069 -also, there's just this weird, I -don't know, tech just move so +also, there's just this weird-- +I don't know. Tech just move so -415 +429 00:24:05,069 --> 00:24:09,809 fast all the time. And you want to level up as a new developer. -416 +430 00:24:09,809 --> 00:24:12,749 And at the same time, you're so aware of the problems of, I -417 +431 00:24:12,749 --> 00:24:15,689 don't -418 +432 00:24:15,690 --> 00:24:20,819 -know, like being an entry level +know, like, being an entry level developer position that you want -419 +433 00:24:20,819 --> 00:24:24,539 to tackle them when you have that passion. So there is this -420 +434 00:24:25,019 --> 00:24:32,910 weird, you know, how do I do all of these things and still take -421 +435 00:24:32,910 --> 00:24:34,079 care of myself. -422 +436 00:24:34,869 --> 00:24:36,579 -Drew Clements: That's, that's -one thing I've planned to focus +Drew: That's- that's one thing +I've planned to focus -423 +437 00:24:36,579 --> 00:24:40,450 on this year is getting the -stuff done that I want to in a +stuff done that I want to, in a -424 +438 00:24:40,539 --> 00:24:45,190 -healthy way. I will say one +healthy way. I will say, one silver lining to taking on all -425 +439 00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:47,019 that extra contract work is -I've, I've walked away with +I've- I've walked away with -426 +440 00:24:47,019 --> 00:24:48,848 probably -427 +441 00:24:48,849 --> 00:24:52,299 at least two to three things that I didn't know before I -428 +442 00:24:52,299 --> 00:24:58,720 started the project. I really forget where that sentence was -429 +443 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,329 -going (laugh). That was gonna be -a good one too. +going [laughs]. That was gonna +be a good one too. -430 +444 00:25:01,329 --> 00:25:04,000 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: (laugh) And -that's we, all the time. +Bekah: [Laughs] And that's we, +all the time. -431 +445 00:25:04,450 --> 00:25:04,900 -Dan Ott: Yes. +Dan: Yes. -432 +446 00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:08,229 -Drew Clements: Oh, no, so, it -allowed, it allowed me to work +Drew: Oh, no. So, it allowed- it +allowed me to work -433 +447 00:25:08,229 --> 00:25:09,189 with a couple -434 +448 00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:12,069 -of different or, you know, just -developers with different +of different-- or, you know, +just developers with different -435 -00:25:12,069 --> 00:25:14,740 -styles. So when I was with Layer -Frame, I was working with Rob. +449 +00:25:12,069 --> 00:25:13,404 +styles. So, when I was with +Layer Frame, I was working with -436 +450 +00:25:13,404 --> 00:25:14,739 +Rob. + +451 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,710 -And I feel like Rob was just -like a mastermind with +And I feel like Rob was just, +like, a mastermind with -437 +452 00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:24,250 -everything. So like, anytime I -had a, anytime I had a problem, +everything. So, like, anytime I +had a- anytime I had a problem, -438 +453 00:25:24,250 --> 00:25:27,460 he had a solution for it. And he was really good at walking me -439 +454 00:25:27,460 --> 00:25:29,500 through how he got to the solution. So I walked away with -440 +455 00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:31,420 some really good troubleshooting skills from that. -441 +456 00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:35,289 -And then when I, on this last -contract role that I just, at - -442 -00:25:35,289 --> 00:25:37,539 -the +And then, when I-- on this last +contract role that I just-- at -443 -00:25:37,539 --> 00:25:39,819 -end of last year, I was working -with a guy named Nick. +457 +00:25:35,289 --> 00:25:39,819 +the end of last year, I was +working with a guy named Nick. -444 +458 00:25:41,650 --> 00:25:45,759 -And he's just, he's just super -knowledgeable around React. And +And he's just- he's just super +knowledgeable around React. And, -445 -00:25:45,759 --> 00:25:49,569 -like, some of, there's like so -many tools and methods in React +459 +00:25:45,759 --> 00:25:47,664 +like, some of-- there's, like, +so many tools and methods in -446 +460 +00:25:47,664 --> 00:25:49,569 +React + +461 00:25:49,569 --> 00:25:53,500 that I didn't even know were a thing until I was able to work -447 +462 00:25:53,500 --> 00:26:01,869 -with him. So it, I overload -myself a lot, but so far, I've +with him. So it-- I overload +myself a lot. But so far, I've -448 +463 00:26:01,869 --> 00:26:05,440 -walked away, I've walked away in +walked away- I've walked away in the green from it. -449 +464 00:26:07,839 --> 00:26:09,369 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I want to -come back to this idea of +Bekah: I want to come back to +this idea of -450 +465 00:26:09,369 --> 00:26:13,960 -talking about Rob and one, just -like learning in general. So, do +talking about Rob, and one, just +like, learning in general. So, -451 +466 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,849 -you have a measure or a point -where you think, okay, I have +do you have a measure or a point +where you think, "Okay, I have -452 +467 00:26:18,849 --> 00:26:22,599 been trying to figure out this problem. And I know that this -453 +468 00:26:22,599 --> 00:26:25,480 -other person knows the answer. -So at what point do you ask? +other person knows the answer." +So, at what point do you ask? -454 +469 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,230 Like, how far down the rabbit hole do you go before you ask -455 +470 00:26:29,230 --> 00:26:29,680 for help? -456 +471 00:26:31,589 --> 00:26:36,779 -Drew Clements: So at my full -time job, we have a one hour +Drew: So, at my full time job, +we have a one hour -457 +472 00:26:36,779 --> 00:26:40,410 -rule, if you get stuck for more +rule. If you get stuck for more than an hour, then reach out to -458 +473 00:26:40,410 --> 00:26:45,089 someone. And I think that's kind -of been rubbing off on me, for +of been rubbing off on me for -459 +474 00:26:45,089 --> 00:26:49,470 my side projects. I'm in a -couple of different communities, +couple of different communities -460 +475 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,609 that I kind of know which one will probably more than likely -461 +476 00:26:53,609 --> 00:26:55,364 -have the answers I need, or will -be, dependent on the time of - -462 -00:26:55,364 --> 00:26:57,119 -day, +have the answers I need or will +be—dependent on the time of -463 -00:26:57,150 --> 00:27:03,210 -may just be more available. So I -usually try to hit it. If, you +477 +00:26:55,364 --> 00:27:03,210 +day—may just be more available. +So I usually try to hit it if, -464 +478 00:27:03,210 --> 00:27:06,569 -know, right at the one hour +you know, right at the one hour mark, depending on how hard I'm -465 +479 00:27:06,569 --> 00:27:09,359 -spinning my wheels. Some, +spinning my wheels. Some-- sometimes, I know there's been a -466 -00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,049 -few times, like I just, I hit a -wall and like I don't even know +480 +00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,204 +few times, like, I just-- I hit +a wall and, like, I don't even -467 +481 +00:27:11,204 --> 00:27:13,049 +know + +482 00:27:13,079 --> 00:27:15,450 how to start scaling this thing. So I'm just gonna immediately -468 +483 00:27:15,450 --> 00:27:18,000 -reach out, but then there's -sometimes like, you know, I go +reach out. But then, there's +sometimes, like, you know, I go -469 +484 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,720 -through, I go through my +through- I go through my troubleshooting process. And if -470 +485 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,339 I still can't really get anywhere, I have a couple -471 +486 00:27:26,339 --> 00:27:29,849 different places I can reach out -to the... What I love about the +to the-- what I love about the -472 +487 00:27:29,849 --> 00:27:33,869 communities that I'm in is that in most cases, it's rare that -473 +488 00:27:33,869 --> 00:27:37,380 they're just gonna give me the -answer, but they're more so +answer. But they're more so -474 +489 00:27:37,380 --> 00:27:41,069 -going to work through it with -me, and almost kind of rubber +going to work through it with me +and almost kind of rubber -475 +490 00:27:41,069 --> 00:27:45,029 duck me to the answer. So that's always super awesome. -476 +491 00:27:47,009 --> 00:27:51,299 -Dan Ott: Nice. Yeah. Like, I -mean, that one hour mark? Seems +Dan: Nice. Yeah. Like, I mean, +that one hour mark? Seems -477 +492 00:27:51,299 --> 00:27:54,539 -like a good, like rule of thumb, -you know, for that sort of +like a good, like, rule of +thumb, you know, for that sort -478 +493 00:27:54,539 --> 00:27:58,529 -thing. That question comes up a -lot, you know, and with, with +of thing. That question comes up +a lot, you know? And with- with -479 +494 00:27:58,559 --> 00:28:05,009 -newer, early career developers, -you know, I mean, that exact +newer-- early career developers, +you know? I mean, that exact -480 +495 00:28:05,009 --> 00:28:06,960 question comes up a lot. A lot of people are wondering it, and -481 +496 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:12,480 it's hard to sort of baseline it. I feel like the answer can -482 +497 00:28:12,509 --> 00:28:15,480 sometimes change depending on -the company, if you're, I mean, +the company, if you're-- I mean, -483 -00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,640 -if you're working like this is -not for side projects, but you +498 +00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:16,560 +if you're working-- like, this +is not for side projects, but -484 +499 +00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:17,640 +you + +500 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:23,549 know, at a job. And I've been -finding it very, like, it seems +finding it very-- like, it seems -485 -00:28:24,059 --> 00:28:27,000 +501 +00:28:24,059 --> 00:28:25,529 like a good thing to have an -actual rule for, like you said, +actual rule for—like you said— -486 +502 +00:28:25,529 --> 00:28:26,999 +that. + +503 00:28:27,059 --> 00:28:30,599 -that, that's where you learned -it from, have it written down, +That's where you learned it +from, have it written down, -487 +504 00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:34,349 -you know, and make it make sure -it's okay for early career +you know, and make it-- make +sure it's okay for early career -488 +505 00:28:34,349 --> 00:28:37,019 developers to ask questions, you -know? And like, let them know +know? And, like, let them know -489 +506 00:28:37,019 --> 00:28:40,410 when to do it, right? Because you know what? I mean, nobody -490 +507 00:28:40,410 --> 00:28:43,200 wants to ask a question right away every time they don't know -491 +508 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:49,349 -anything, you know, but it -always is going to be like, +anything, you know? But it +always is going to be like- -492 -00:28:49,890 --> 00:28:52,079 -like, doing the rubber ducky -thing is just like such a useful +509 +00:28:49,890 --> 00:28:50,984 +like doing the rubber ducky +thing is just, like, such a -493 +510 +00:28:50,984 --> 00:28:52,078 +useful + +511 00:28:52,079 --> 00:28:56,009 -tool for any developer of any, -any skill or you know, learning +tool for any developer of any- +any skill or, you know, learning -494 +512 00:28:56,009 --> 00:28:58,604 level. It just that one hour -mark seems, seems cool. I don't +mark seems- seems cool. I don't -495 +513 00:28:58,604 --> 00:29:01,199 know. -496 -00:29:01,470 --> 00:29:02,970 -Drew Clements: Yeah. Speaking of -rubber ducks, my, we did uh... - -497 -00:29:02,970 --> 00:29:04,470 -Two +514 +00:29:01,470 --> 00:29:04,470 +Drew: Yeah. Speaking of rubber +ducks, my-- we did-- two -498 +515 00:29:04,470 --> 00:29:07,650 years ago, we did Secret Santa for the family. My sister got -499 +516 00:29:07,650 --> 00:29:11,190 -me, she didn't know what, she +me-- she didn't know what- she didn't know what to get me. So -500 +517 00:29:11,190 --> 00:29:17,819 -she just googled like, coder +she just googled, like, coder gift ideas. And she got me this. -501 +518 00:29:19,410 --> 00:29:22,890 -It says, it says, Hi! I'm Stu, +It says- it says, "Hi! I'm Stu, your debugging friend. -502 +519 00:29:22,890 --> 00:29:24,930 -Tell me your steps and we'll -find the bug together! It's, +Tell me your steps, and we'll +find the bug together!" It's- -503 -00:29:24,930 --> 00:29:26,970 -it's - -504 -00:29:26,970 --> 00:29:28,710 -right here on my desk. And he -does exactly that. +520 +00:29:24,930 --> 00:29:28,710 +it's right here, on my desk. And +he does exactly that. -505 +521 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:31,019 -Dan Ott: That's amazing. - -506 -00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:33,689 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I um, I -have a problem of, I think, +Dan: That's amazing. -507 -00:29:33,689 --> 00:29:36,059 -early in +522 +00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:36,059 +Bekah: I- I have a problem of, I +think, early in -508 +523 00:29:36,059 --> 00:29:39,599 my career. It was I don't know if I should ask a question. And -509 +524 00:29:39,779 --> 00:29:43,680 now that I'm a little bit in, it's the stubbornness in me that -510 -00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,494 -I have to tackle like, I can do -this, you know? (laugh) Like, I +525 +00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:44,587 +I have to tackle, like, "I can +do this," you know? [Laughs] -511 +526 +00:29:44,587 --> 00:29:45,494 +Like, "I + +527 00:29:45,494 --> 00:29:47,308 don't -512 +528 00:29:47,309 --> 00:29:49,214 -have to ask a question. This is +have to ask a question." This is a real check of, I don't know, -513 +529 00:29:49,214 --> 00:29:51,119 what does -514 +530 00:29:51,119 --> 00:29:52,710 -that like hubris or something? -(laugh) +that, like, hubris or something? +[Laughs] -515 +531 00:29:53,470 --> 00:29:56,350 -Drew Clements: (laugh) Yeah. No, -I have uh... The first kind of +Drew: [Laughs] Yeah. No, I +have-- the first kind of -516 +532 00:29:56,350 --> 00:29:59,230 developer -517 +533 00:29:59,230 --> 00:30:04,240 role I was in, the senior dev I -worked with, he was, he was very +worked with, he was- he was very -518 +534 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,119 much trained the old-school way and brought up with the -519 +535 00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:12,099 -old-school mentality. So any, +old-school mentality. So, any-- anytime I would come to -520 +536 00:30:12,099 --> 00:30:15,190 questions with him, he would -assume that like, I got to the +assume that, like, I got to the -521 +537 00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:18,190 -question, or I got to the -problem and immediately ask the +question or I got to the problem +and immediately ask the -522 +538 00:30:18,190 --> 00:30:22,210 question. And that's kind of how he would react to me. Like, -523 -00:30:22,930 --> 00:30:26,019 +539 +00:30:22,930 --> 00:30:24,474 there's a lot of tension there. -Like it got to the point where I +Like, it got to the point where -524 +540 +00:30:24,474 --> 00:30:26,018 +I + +541 00:30:26,019 --> 00:30:29,920 didn't want to ask him a -question, because I knew what, I +question because I knew what-- I -525 +542 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,819 knew the vibe and what the response was going to be. What -526 +543 00:30:33,819 --> 00:30:36,579 -was actually happening is like, -I was spinning my wheels for +was actually happening is, like, +I was spinning my wheels for, -527 +544 00:30:36,579 --> 00:30:41,170 like, two hours trying to not have to ask him a question. And -528 -00:30:41,170 --> 00:30:44,259 -then when I did ask the -question, it was like, you know, +545 +00:30:41,170 --> 00:30:42,714 +then, when I did ask the +question, it was, like, you -529 +546 +00:30:42,714 --> 00:30:44,258 +know, + +547 00:30:44,259 --> 00:30:50,319 grief conflict? A whole bunch of -tension. So it's, I don't know, +tension. So it's-- I don't know. -530 +548 00:30:50,319 --> 00:30:53,109 -it's, it's been like a breath of -fresh air, slash a huge relief +It's- it's been like a breath of +fresh air slash a huge relief -531 +549 00:30:53,109 --> 00:30:55,899 that, -532 +550 00:30:56,890 --> 00:31:01,119 A, I've found the communities that have found and have places -533 +551 00:31:01,299 --> 00:31:05,349 that I can ask questions, but B, -now with a company that like, +now, with a company that, like-- -534 +552 00:31:06,430 --> 00:31:08,859 -that had, that has their own +that had-- that has their own rule for when you should ask -535 +553 00:31:08,859 --> 00:31:12,700 questions, and a lot of times, -they're, they're gonna chop that +they're- they're gonna chop that -536 +554 00:31:12,700 --> 00:31:15,490 -hour down to like, 30 minutes, -or like, any time I'm on a +hour down to, like, 30 minutes +or, like, any time I'm on a -537 +555 00:31:15,490 --> 00:31:17,440 -project, they're like, hey, one +project, they're like, "Hey, one hour rule is actually 10 minutes -538 +556 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,390 -here, +here," -539 +557 00:31:19,420 --> 00:31:21,730 when our rules actually 20 -minutes here, and they actually +minutes here. And they actually -540 +558 00:31:21,730 --> 00:31:23,424 -want you to ask questions they -have, we have an entire thread - -541 -00:31:23,424 --> 00:31:25,118 -(??) +want you to ask questions. They +have-- we have an entire thread -542 -00:31:25,119 --> 00:31:27,819 -in basecamp, where it's just +559 +00:31:23,424 --> 00:31:27,819 +[??] in basecamp where it's just different developers asking -543 +560 00:31:27,819 --> 00:31:31,509 different questions. And -there's, it's just super awesome +there's-- it's just super -544 +561 00:31:31,509 --> 00:31:32,380 -thing to be a part of. +awesome thing to be a part of. -545 +562 00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:34,750 -Dan Ott: That's really, that's +Dan: That's really-- that's cool. That's really cool to -546 +563 00:31:34,750 --> 00:31:38,259 -hear. Like the per project or -something, they'll, they'll just +hear. Like, the-- per project or +something, they'll- they'll just -547 -00:31:38,259 --> 00:31:40,359 -say, okay, for this project, we -know it's like new or something, +564 +00:31:38,259 --> 00:31:39,309 +say, "Okay, for this project, we +know it's, like, new or -548 -00:31:40,390 --> 00:31:41,905 +565 +00:31:39,309 --> 00:31:40,359 +something, + +566 +00:31:40,390 --> 00:31:41,147 or a lot of moving pieces. So -change the rule, you know? Based +change the rule," you know? -549 +567 +00:31:41,147 --> 00:31:41,904 +Based + +568 00:31:41,905 --> 00:31:43,420 on that. -550 +569 00:31:43,589 --> 00:31:45,930 -Drew Clements: Yeah. And they, -they're, they're really aware of +Drew: Yeah. And they-- they're- +they're really aware of, -551 +570 00:31:45,930 --> 00:31:50,910 like, skill level and expertise -with the different, with +with the different-- with -552 +571 00:31:51,180 --> 00:31:55,170 different tools and stuff. So if they're bringing me on to a -553 -00:31:55,170 --> 00:32:00,779 -project that uses you know, like -a legacy build that they know, I +572 +00:31:55,170 --> 00:31:57,974 +project that uses, you know, +like, a legacy build that they -554 +573 +00:31:57,974 --> 00:32:00,778 +know I + +574 00:32:00,779 --> 00:32:03,539 haven't really seen a whole lot, -then, then that's when they'll +then- then that's when they'll -555 -00:32:03,539 --> 00:32:08,730 -say, hey, your, your windows 15 -minutes for this, or if they're +575 +00:32:03,539 --> 00:32:06,134 +say, "Hey, your- your window's +15 minutes for this." Or if -556 +576 +00:32:06,134 --> 00:32:08,729 +they're + +577 00:32:08,730 --> 00:32:12,059 moving, in some cases, even some of the more experienced devs on -557 +578 00:32:12,059 --> 00:32:15,509 to something where it's a little more intricate UI work, where -558 -00:32:15,509 --> 00:32:18,630 +579 +00:32:15,509 --> 00:32:17,069 they're mostly, you know, data -backend stuff like, hey, okay, +back-end stuff, like, "Hey, -559 -00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:22,589 -well, now your windows 10 -minutes, and met, but mine will +580 +00:32:17,069 --> 00:32:18,629 +okay. -560 -00:32:22,589 --> 00:32:25,619 +581 +00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:20,609 +Well, now your window's 10 +minutes," and met-- but mine + +582 +00:32:20,609 --> 00:32:22,588 +will + +583 +00:32:22,589 --> 00:32:24,104 still be the full hour so that -they're, they're really aware of +they're- they're really aware -561 +584 +00:32:24,104 --> 00:32:25,619 +of, + +585 00:32:25,619 --> 00:32:29,970 -like where everyone's at? And +like, where everyone's at. And, like, adjusting their windows -562 +586 00:32:29,970 --> 00:32:30,539 accordingly. -563 +587 00:32:31,980 --> 00:32:34,380 -Dan Ott: That's really cool to -hear. I feel like asking +Dan: That's really cool to hear. +I feel like asking -564 +588 00:32:34,380 --> 00:32:38,369 questions is almost a skill to learn as well. Sort of similar -565 +589 00:32:38,369 --> 00:32:40,664 -to googling (laugh) is a skill +to googling [laughs] is a skill as a developer, you know? It -566 +590 00:32:40,664 --> 00:32:42,959 -sounds, +sounds -567 +591 00:32:43,650 --> 00:32:46,890 everybody who is been a developer for long enough knows -568 +592 00:32:46,890 --> 00:32:49,230 what that means, like, knows what a person means when they -569 +593 00:32:49,230 --> 00:32:51,509 say that googling is a skill, and you have to learn how to -570 +594 00:32:51,509 --> 00:32:55,380 google. Do you feel like you have become better at asking -571 -00:32:55,380 --> 00:32:59,130 -questions? Once like, especially -once you start working with +595 +00:32:55,380 --> 00:32:57,255 +questions? Once, like-- +especially once you start -572 +596 +00:32:57,255 --> 00:32:59,130 +working with + +597 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,430 maybe a company that value that, you know, value that -573 +598 00:33:02,940 --> 00:33:03,630 interaction? -574 +599 00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:07,529 -Drew Clements: Yeah, absolutely. -And, and I would even say, I got +Drew: Yeah, absolutely. And- and +I would even say, I got -575 +600 00:33:07,529 --> 00:33:10,440 better at asking questions, even while I was in that environment. -576 +601 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,775 -Because uh... Well first, I want -to say, like me and that +Because-- well, first, I want to +say, like me and that -577 +602 00:33:14,775 --> 00:33:18,150 developer, -578 +603 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:24,359 -we, it was a really strange -relationship. Like, every, every +we-- it was a really strange +relationship. Like, every- every -579 +604 00:33:24,359 --> 00:33:27,269 Friday, we would go grab lunch together, we were best buds. And -580 +605 00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:29,204 we liked the same music. We were both guitarist, and we would -581 +606 00:33:29,204 --> 00:33:31,139 -sit, +sit- -582 -00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,549 -we would sit there, you know, we -shared an office. It feels weird +607 +00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,374 +we would sit there-- you know, +we shared an office. It feels -583 +608 +00:33:33,374 --> 00:33:35,548 +weird + +609 00:33:35,549 --> 00:33:37,724 to say that I shared a room with -anyone right now (laugh). But +anyone right now [laughs]. But, -584 +610 00:33:37,724 --> 00:33:39,899 you know, the -585 +611 00:33:39,900 --> 00:33:41,819 entire day, we would just sit there and talk back and forth -586 -00:33:41,819 --> 00:33:47,279 -like it was, we really were just -friends, friends inside, inside +612 +00:33:41,819 --> 00:33:44,549 +like it was-- we really were +just friends. Friends inside- -587 +613 +00:33:44,549 --> 00:33:47,279 +inside + +614 00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:50,910 -the company. But when it, when -it came to that, that, that was +the company. But when it- when +it came to that, that- that was, -588 +615 00:33:50,910 --> 00:33:53,670 like, that was the only point of friction in that relationship. -589 -00:33:53,670 --> 00:33:55,829 -Which was, which was really -strange to me. But I think it's, +616 +00:33:53,670 --> 00:33:54,749 +Which was- which was really +strange to me. But I think, -590 +617 +00:33:54,749 --> 00:33:55,828 +it's-- + +618 00:33:56,670 --> 00:33:58,920 the only thing I can chalk it up to is that that's just how he -591 +619 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,039 -was, that was the company -culture. He was, he was trained +was. That was the company +culture. He was- he was trained -592 +620 00:34:02,039 --> 00:34:05,910 in and brought up in himself. So that's the only way he knows to -593 +621 00:34:05,910 --> 00:34:14,010 -try to help others learn. Um, -but yeah, I think even in that +try to help others learn. But, +yeah, I think even in that -594 +622 00:34:14,010 --> 00:34:17,039 environment, I think I got -better at asking questions, +better at asking questions. -595 +623 00:34:17,039 --> 00:34:21,179 -because I would, I would ask -something and his response +Because I would- I would ask +something, and his response -596 +624 00:34:21,179 --> 00:34:25,079 -would be like, well, what is, -what is x mean? What is y mean? +would be like, "Well, what is- +what is x mean? What is y mean?" -597 +625 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,245 I would use the wrong words all the time, which is very -598 +626 00:34:28,245 --> 00:34:30,090 frustrating. -599 +627 00:34:30,119 --> 00:34:31,349 -Dan Ott: Can you give an example -of that? +Dan: Can you give an example of +that? -600 +628 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,760 -Drew Clements: So like, I would -say something like, you know, +Drew: So, like, I would say +something like, you know, -601 +629 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,670 -the this, I'm passing this +"The-- this-- I'm passing this argument, but it's not coming -602 +630 00:34:38,670 --> 00:34:43,889 -out the right way, when what I -meant was the method. But I was +out the right way," when what I +meant was the method, but I was -603 +631 00:34:43,889 --> 00:34:46,530 -using the word argument and his -response to be like, well, +using the word argument. And his +response to be like, "Well, -604 +632 00:34:46,559 --> 00:34:48,539 obviously, that's not gonna work. You don't need an argument -605 +633 00:34:48,539 --> 00:34:51,134 -there. That's the, I'd be -pointing at it on the screen +there." "That's the--" I'd be +pointing at it on the screen, -606 +634 00:34:51,134 --> 00:34:53,729 -like, that, right +like, "That, right -607 -00:34:53,730 --> 00:34:56,639 +635 +00:34:53,730 --> 00:34:55,184 there. That's what I'm trying to -do. He's like, what? That's not +do." He's like, "What? That's -608 -00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:59,129 -an argument. I'm like, okay. -Fair enough. So (laugh), like +636 +00:34:55,184 --> 00:34:56,638 +not -609 -00:34:59,129 --> 00:35:01,619 -that kind of +637 +00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:59,129 +an argument." I'm like, "Okay. +Fair enough." So [laughs], like, -610 -00:35:01,619 --> 00:35:02,070 -stuff. +638 +00:34:59,129 --> 00:35:02,070 +that kind of stuff. -611 +639 00:35:02,519 --> 00:35:02,969 -Dan Ott: (laugh) Yeah. +Dan: [Laughs] Yeah. -612 +640 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,940 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah. You -know, we also see like the issue +Bekah: Yeah. You know, we also +see, like, the issue -613 +641 00:35:05,940 --> 00:35:11,190 with entry level devs and the problem of comfort level with -614 +642 00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:14,579 whoever they're working with. And I have a lot of feelings -615 +643 00:35:14,579 --> 00:35:17,820 about that. But one of them also is that not everybody is meant -616 -00:35:17,820 --> 00:35:21,210 +644 +00:35:17,820 --> 00:35:19,515 to be a mentor, right? You know, -some people have like a natural +some people have, like, a -617 +645 +00:35:19,515 --> 00:35:21,210 +natural + +646 00:35:21,210 --> 00:35:24,539 ability, some people can have training and get good at it. But -618 +647 00:35:24,539 --> 00:35:28,380 some people, you know, they -don't desire it, or they feel +don't desire it or they feel -619 +648 00:35:28,380 --> 00:35:31,380 like it takes away from their -experience. And so they're +experience. And so, they're -620 +649 00:35:31,380 --> 00:35:36,420 aggravated by it. But a company not only has to make a space -621 +650 00:35:36,539 --> 00:35:40,860 welcoming for new developers, but it also has to support the -622 +651 00:35:40,889 --> 00:35:45,000 -upper level devs, who are +upper level devs who are providing the mentorship and the -623 +652 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,845 -guidance and making sure that, +guidance, and making sure that, you know, that culture shows -624 -00:35:46,845 --> 00:35:48,690 -that - -625 -00:35:48,690 --> 00:35:50,639 -how you treat people and talk to -them. +653 +00:35:46,845 --> 00:35:50,639 +that how you treat people and +talk to them. -626 +654 00:35:52,579 --> 00:35:54,349 -Drew Clements: Yeah. That's the, -um, so, one of, Sean, the guy +Drew: Yeah. That's the-- so, one +of-- Sean, the guy -627 +655 00:35:54,349 --> 00:35:56,119 that I mentioned -628 +656 00:35:56,119 --> 00:36:00,289 -earlier. He was always really -good at, if I ever came to him +earlier, he was always really +good at. If I ever came to him -629 +657 00:36:00,289 --> 00:36:05,030 -with a question, he was, his +with a question, he was-- his response was always, you know, -630 -00:36:05,150 --> 00:36:08,480 -well, let's look at it together. -Or, you know, let's talk me +658 +00:36:05,150 --> 00:36:06,815 +"Well, let's look at it +together." Or, you know, "Let's -631 +659 +00:36:06,815 --> 00:36:08,480 +talk me + +660 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,760 through the steps you're trying -to do and let's see if we can +to do, and let's see if we can -632 +661 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,869 -find the hang up there. So I -think he's one of those people +find the hang up there." So I +think, he's one of those people -633 +662 00:36:14,869 --> 00:36:17,044 -that just naturally has like, -well I mean, he's, I know he's +that just naturally has, like-- +well, I mean, he's-- I know he's -634 +663 00:36:17,044 --> 00:36:19,219 been a -635 +664 00:36:19,219 --> 00:36:22,070 guitar teacher for a while. So maybe he's just developed those -636 +665 00:36:22,070 --> 00:36:22,820 teaching skills. -637 +666 00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:28,639 -Dan Ott: Yeah. Going back to -having a company support the +Dan: Yeah. Going back to having +a company support the -638 +667 00:36:28,670 --> 00:36:32,239 senior devs in those roles, I feel like that's an important -639 +668 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:39,320 thing. I guess tying it back to the framing of making it a rule, -640 +669 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,769 -like having the rule of the one +like, having the rule of the one hour thing, for instance, right? -641 +670 00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:45,545 That gives the younger -developer, younger, the, you +developer-- younger-- the-- you -642 +671 00:36:45,545 --> 00:36:47,900 know, early -643 +672 00:36:47,900 --> 00:36:53,179 career, newer developer a guideline to follow, right? But -644 +673 00:36:53,179 --> 00:36:57,590 it also implies that the question should be asked, you -645 +674 00:36:57,590 --> 00:37:00,320 -know, and that, and that the +know? And that- and that the question also should be, you -646 +675 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:05,059 know, answered or whatever. So, -again, that has to become, I +again, that has to become-- I -647 +676 00:37:05,059 --> 00:37:07,940 mean, you can just hope that the senior developer in whatever -648 +677 00:37:07,940 --> 00:37:14,929 position is good at it and everything, but having it be -649 +678 00:37:15,019 --> 00:37:17,659 part of the company culture, having it be expected, you know, -650 +679 00:37:17,659 --> 00:37:21,860 that's part of a developer's role is supporting a junior -651 +680 00:37:21,860 --> 00:37:24,980 -developer, or however it works +developer or however it works out. But that part of the -652 +681 00:37:24,980 --> 00:37:28,039 developer's job is doing that. -Not that answering a question, +Not that answering a question -653 +682 00:37:28,039 --> 00:37:34,010 or helping a developer through a problem is taking time away from -654 +683 00:37:34,010 --> 00:37:37,400 doing your job, right? I feel like that can be something that -655 +684 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,780 -can come up, right? Where if -it's not framed correctly, maybe +can come up, right? Where—if +it's not framed correctly—maybe -656 +685 00:37:42,739 --> 00:37:46,820 when you were asking a question, he was just feeling like he had -657 +686 00:37:46,820 --> 00:37:49,550 stuff to do. And this was getting in the way of doing his -658 +687 00:37:49,550 --> 00:37:53,539 stuff or something, you know? And which is not actually -659 +688 00:37:53,539 --> 00:37:56,000 correct, right? Like, it's part of his job. I mean, I don't know -660 +689 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,305 what the exact situation was -there. But like, it should be +there. But, like, it should be -661 +690 00:37:57,305 --> 00:37:58,610 -part of... +part of-- -662 +691 00:37:58,909 --> 00:38:01,010 -Drew Clements: There was -definitely a lot a lot of moving +Drew: There was definitely a +lot- a lot of moving -663 +692 00:38:01,010 --> 00:38:05,630 projects with only one experienced and one learning -664 +693 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:06,349 developer. -665 +694 00:38:07,139 --> 00:38:10,949 -Dan Ott: Right. Right. Right. -You know, and not having it +Dan: Right. Right. Right. You +know, and not having it -666 +695 00:38:13,170 --> 00:38:16,980 -explicit, is a recipe for that +explicit is a recipe for that sort of thing to happen, you -667 +696 00:38:18,059 --> 00:38:21,000 know? You could maybe have be lucky. That's what I mean, -668 +697 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,355 like, depending on just hoping -(laugh), hoping that it works +[laughs]- hoping that it works -669 +698 00:38:23,355 --> 00:38:25,710 out. It -670 +699 00:38:25,710 --> 00:38:28,800 -doesn't, that doesn't seem like +doesn't-- that doesn't seem like the right call. And hiring -671 +700 00:38:29,550 --> 00:38:34,230 -junior developers is important, -but they need like, the people +junior developers is important. +But they need-- like, the people -672 +701 00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:35,640 hiring them need to be, you know, prepared, right? Need to -673 -00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,050 -be - -674 -00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,550 -prepared to support them, but +702 +00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:41,550 +be prepared to support them, but also prepared to, you know, have -675 +703 00:38:41,550 --> 00:38:43,005 a plan for the senior developers too. Because it's hard. It's -676 +704 00:38:43,005 --> 00:38:44,460 also -677 +705 00:38:44,460 --> 00:38:51,510 another whole skill to learn. And, you know, having some -678 +706 00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:54,389 guidelines like that, I feel -like is such a good, such a good +like is such a good- such a good -679 +707 00:38:54,599 --> 00:38:57,480 thing to, and sort of almost easy thing to pull off, right? -680 +708 00:38:57,510 --> 00:38:59,489 -Like an easy way to really -improve the situation is just +Like, an easy way to really +improve the situation is just, -681 +709 00:38:59,489 --> 00:39:01,349 like, this is how it works. Ask -a question, you know? (laugh) +a question, you know? [Laughs] -682 +710 00:39:01,349 --> 00:39:03,209 Like, ask -683 +711 00:39:03,210 --> 00:39:06,239 a question after an hour, you know? Answer the question after, -684 +712 00:39:06,300 --> 00:39:08,460 you know, that when the junior -developer helps like it, or +developer helps like it or -685 +713 00:39:08,460 --> 00:39:11,909 asks, you know? I just like that. I like the clarity of -686 +714 00:39:11,909 --> 00:39:12,539 that, you know? I think that's really cool. -687 +715 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,300 -Drew Clements: Yeah. And that -actually reminds me one, one +Drew: Yeah. And that actually +reminds me one- one -688 +716 00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:19,019 -thing before I knew about the -one hour rule, one thing Sean +thing—before I knew about the +one hour rule—one thing Sean -689 +717 00:39:19,019 --> 00:39:22,590 always did to me that I didn't -know until I, you know, months +know until I-- you know, months -690 +718 00:39:22,590 --> 00:39:26,550 -and months later, is that when I +and months later is that when I would ask him a question, he -691 +719 00:39:26,550 --> 00:39:28,800 -would, he would, he would set -like a timer, like he'll reply +would- he would- he would set, +like, a timer, like, he'll reply -692 +720 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,050 within -693 +721 00:39:31,050 --> 00:39:35,909 one hour if he doesn't hear back from me. And I didn't know -694 +722 00:39:35,909 --> 00:39:38,250 -that was the thing. So like, I, +that was the thing. So, like, I- I just asked him a question, I -695 +723 00:39:38,250 --> 00:39:40,980 keep trying to work on it. And -then there were a lot of times +then, there were a lot of times -696 +724 00:39:40,980 --> 00:39:43,440 -where like, oh, nevermind. Got -it. And then like, at, what, I +where like, "Oh, nevermind. Got +it." And then, like, at-- what-- -697 +725 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,900 -think it +I think it -698 +726 00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:49,559 was after I'd left the contract -role with him, he's like, yeah, +role with him, he's like, "Yeah, -699 -00:39:49,559 --> 00:39:52,679 -I used to give you like an hour -anytime you ask a question and +727 +00:39:49,559 --> 00:39:51,119 +I used to give you, like, an +hour anytime you ask a question. -700 -00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:55,590 -towards the end you got to where -you were responding back within +728 +00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:52,679 +And -701 +729 +00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:54,150 +towards the end, you got to +where you were responding back + +730 +00:39:54,150 --> 00:39:55,590 +within, + +731 00:39:55,590 --> 00:40:00,570 -like 10 minutes that nevermind, -you found the answer. But +like, 10 minutes that nevermind, +you found the answer." But -702 +732 00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:06,329 touching back on what you were saying about companies needing -703 +733 00:40:06,329 --> 00:40:09,570 -to, you know, like proactively +to, you know, like, proactively support junior developers. -704 -00:40:09,570 --> 00:40:13,619 +734 +00:40:09,570 --> 00:40:11,594 That's one of the things we're -doing on Protege. So all of our, +doing on Protege. So, all of -705 +735 +00:40:11,594 --> 00:40:13,618 +our-- + +736 00:40:14,130 --> 00:40:18,989 all the listings there are -curated and like, approved by +curated and, like, approved by -706 -00:40:18,989 --> 00:40:23,400 -us. That's one thing, when, when -a company lists with us, one +737 +00:40:18,989 --> 00:40:21,194 +us. That's one thing-- when- +when a company lists with us, -707 +738 +00:40:21,194 --> 00:40:23,399 +one + +739 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:29,460 -thing we gotta do, one thing we -do is, you know, first we read +thing we gotta do-- one thing we +do is, you know, first, we read -708 +740 00:40:29,460 --> 00:40:31,469 through the listing and make -sure it kind of lines up with, +sure it kind of lines up with- -709 +741 00:40:32,010 --> 00:40:34,260 with the goals we have for -Protege. But then we also kind +Protege. But then, we also kind -710 +742 00:40:34,260 --> 00:40:37,889 of like dig into the company's -website, and you know, maybe +website, and, you know, maybe -711 +743 00:40:37,889 --> 00:40:41,130 -their LinkedIn to try and get an -idea of the company culture +their LinkedIn, to try and get +an idea of the company culture -712 +744 00:40:41,130 --> 00:40:45,869 -like. Are, are they posting this +like. Are- are they posting this role because they just -713 +745 00:40:45,869 --> 00:40:47,849 want to pay someone cheap? Or are they posting this role -714 +746 00:40:47,849 --> 00:40:50,309 because they genuinely want to find someone to build them up -715 +747 00:40:50,309 --> 00:40:56,550 into the best version that they -can be? And we try to, we try to +can be? And we try to- we try to -716 +748 00:40:56,550 --> 00:41:00,989 make sure we have a good idea -of, of, of the answer to that. +of- of- of the answer to that. -717 +749 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:02,969 -For, for every listing. +For- for every listing. -718 +750 00:41:03,570 --> 00:41:06,030 -Dan Ott: That's really cool. I -mean, and that's like, I feel +Dan: That's really cool. I +mean-- and that's, like-- I feel -719 +751 00:41:06,030 --> 00:41:09,960 -like one of, one of the things +like one of- one of the things that makes Protege, you know, -720 +752 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:15,809 special is the curation and the -sort of insight into the, the +sort of insight into the- the -721 +753 00:41:15,809 --> 00:41:18,719 junior developer mind, if you -will (laugh), you know? It's, +will [laughs], you know? -722 +754 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,629 -like you +It's—like you -723 +755 00:41:21,630 --> 00:41:26,190 -said, it's not just a, I don't -know, collection of, of things +said—it's not just a-- I don't +know, collection of- of things -724 +756 00:41:26,190 --> 00:41:29,130 that people want to find cheap worker, you know, something like -725 +757 00:41:29,130 --> 00:41:29,849 that, right? -726 +758 00:41:30,449 --> 00:41:30,960 -Drew Clements: Yeah. I'm a, +Drew: Yeah. I'm a-- -727 +759 00:41:31,230 --> 00:41:31,829 -Dan Ott: It's really cool. +Dan: It's really cool. -728 +760 00:41:32,519 --> 00:41:34,559 -Drew Clements: I will always -refer to myself as perpetually, +Drew: I will always refer to +myself as perpetually- -729 -00:41:34,590 --> 00:41:38,489 -perpetually junior developer. So -hopefully, I will always be able +761 +00:41:34,590 --> 00:41:36,539 +perpetually junior developer. +So, hopefully, I will always be -730 +762 +00:41:36,539 --> 00:41:38,488 +able + +763 00:41:38,489 --> 00:41:42,570 to keep that mindset. But we -have, I was actually just +have-- I was actually just -731 +764 00:41:42,570 --> 00:41:44,639 talking to some people in the Virtual Coffee group not too -732 +765 00:41:44,639 --> 00:41:49,619 -long ago about, about some tools -and features we can add, to +long ago about- about some tools +and features we can add to, -733 +766 00:41:49,619 --> 00:41:53,760 -hopefully help empower both +hopefully, help empower both sides of the process in our -734 +767 00:41:53,820 --> 00:41:55,019 interface to build. -735 -00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:57,629 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: So okay. -So, if you had a magic wand, and - -736 -00:41:57,629 --> 00:41:59,429 -you +768 +00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:59,429 +Bekah: So-- okay. So, if you had +a magic wand, and you -737 +769 00:41:59,429 --> 00:42:01,739 could get everything you want for Protege, what does it look -738 +770 00:42:01,739 --> 00:42:02,099 like? -739 -00:42:02,789 --> 00:42:04,304 -Drew Clements: If I get -everything I want, in terms of - -740 -00:42:04,304 --> 00:42:05,819 -features or +771 +00:42:02,789 --> 00:42:05,819 +Drew: If I get everything I +want, in terms of features or -741 +772 00:42:05,820 --> 00:42:06,480 success? -742 +773 00:42:07,019 --> 00:42:09,090 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Whatever -you want. Let's do it all. +Bekah: Whatever you want. Let's +do it all. -743 +774 00:42:09,090 --> 00:42:10,829 You've got a magic wand. It's your choice. -744 -00:42:10,949 --> 00:42:13,094 -Drew Clements: If I had a magic -wand, there, there'd be accounts - -745 -00:42:13,094 --> 00:42:15,239 -for +775 +00:42:10,949 --> 00:42:15,239 +Drew: If I had a magic wand, +there-- there'd be accounts for -746 +776 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:19,829 both candidates and companies, -there'd be, there'd be tools on +there'd be- there'd be tools on -747 +777 00:42:19,829 --> 00:42:26,670 both ends to do both empower and protect both sides. I don't -748 +778 00:42:26,670 --> 00:42:28,349 really feel like the companies would really need much -749 +779 00:42:28,409 --> 00:42:32,969 protection. But in some cases, -like maybe the candidates do, +like, maybe the candidates do. -750 +780 00:42:32,969 --> 00:42:39,389 -especially from, you know, like -ageism, or, or something like +Especially from, you know, like, +ageism, or- or something like -751 +781 00:42:39,389 --> 00:42:43,289 -that. Yeah, so some, some tools -around like empowering +that. Yeah, so some- some tools +around, like, empowering -752 +782 00:42:43,289 --> 00:42:45,659 candidates against -discrimination. So like, maybe +discrimination. So, like, maybe -753 -00:42:45,659 --> 00:42:50,369 -there, maybe only like their -work history and like, some kind +783 +00:42:45,659 --> 00:42:48,014 +there-- maybe only-- like, their +work history and, like, some -754 +784 +00:42:48,014 --> 00:42:50,369 +kind + +785 00:42:50,369 --> 00:42:54,630 of like generic questions they answered are available. And the -755 +786 00:42:54,630 --> 00:42:59,099 company can't really see what -their you know, name, name, +their, you know, name- name, -756 +787 00:42:59,099 --> 00:43:03,150 -gender, age, or location or +gender, age, or location, or anything like that is until, you -757 +788 00:43:03,150 --> 00:43:06,420 know, they schedule an interview with them and have something -758 +789 00:43:06,420 --> 00:43:11,099 kinda like on the books or -something like that. Or even, +something like that. Or even- -759 +790 00:43:11,130 --> 00:43:14,940 even a tool to where maybe -candidates can say like, you +candidates can say, like, you -760 +791 00:43:14,940 --> 00:43:18,300 -know, I'm in this time zone, but -I'm willing to work in up to +know, "I'm in this time zone, +but I'm willing to work in up to -761 -00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:21,480 -these are you knows different -stuff like that. I haven't +792 +00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:19,890 +these," are-- you know, +different stuff like that. I -762 +793 +00:43:19,890 --> 00:43:21,480 +haven't + +794 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:26,250 -looked at the, like the company +looked at the, like, the company side of a lot of the job board -763 +795 00:43:26,250 --> 00:43:29,880 -competitors, which I don't -really consider them +competitors—which I don't really +consider them -764 -00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,150 -competitors. Because like, they, -they have their niche. They're +796 +00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,515 +competitors. Because, like, +they- they have their niche. -765 +797 +00:43:31,515 --> 00:43:33,150 +They're + +798 00:43:33,150 --> 00:43:35,250 -doing their thing, we're, we're +doing their thing, we're- we're trying to solve a completely -766 +799 00:43:35,250 --> 00:43:38,219 different problem. So we'd -really just like all the tools +really just, like, all the tools -767 +800 00:43:38,219 --> 00:43:40,559 -for everyone (laugh). And that's -it. +for everyone [laughs]. And +that's it. -768 +801 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,429 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: All right, -excellent. I mean, it is so hard +Bekah: All right, excellent. I +mean, it is so hard -769 +802 00:43:44,429 --> 00:43:48,840 to search for a job as an entry -level or junior developer, +level or junior developer -770 +803 00:43:48,900 --> 00:43:51,269 because they don't make it clear. Or you do have those -771 +804 00:43:51,269 --> 00:43:54,750 problems where they're like, -yes, we want an entry level +"Yes, we want an entry level -772 -00:43:54,750 --> 00:43:58,710 +805 +00:43:54,750 --> 00:43:56,730 developer, but you have to know -all of these things just because +all of these things," just -773 +806 +00:43:56,730 --> 00:43:58,710 +because + +807 00:43:58,860 --> 00:44:02,909 they want to get you to do work for less money. And that's such -774 +808 00:44:02,909 --> 00:44:05,639 a problem. And we see people over and over going into those -775 +809 00:44:05,639 --> 00:44:10,650 environments and just being, you know, totally frustrated, and -776 +810 00:44:10,679 --> 00:44:13,530 it's affecting their health because it's such a terrible -777 +811 00:44:13,530 --> 00:44:19,170 -place to work. But then it's so +place to work. But then, it's so hard to find another job. But -778 +812 00:44:19,170 --> 00:44:21,960 -it's jus, I don't know. It's -just this, this huge problem. +it's just-- I don't know. It's +just this- this huge problem. -779 +813 00:44:23,159 --> 00:44:27,358 -Drew Clements: Yeah. Ideally, we -want to build a network of +Drew: Yeah. Ideally, we want to +build a network of -780 +814 00:44:27,358 --> 00:44:31,259 companies that we know without a -shadow of a doubt, like just +shadow of a doubt, like, just -781 +815 00:44:31,438 --> 00:44:34,949 -support juniors, like from the +support juniors, like, from the ground up in every direction. -782 +816 00:44:36,059 --> 00:44:39,958 -And that's, that's really what -we want for it is just, oh, +And that's- that's really what +we want for it is just, "Oh, -783 +817 00:44:39,958 --> 00:44:42,059 -you're, you're a new candidate, -you're looking for a job, okay. +you're- you're a new candidate, +you're looking for a job. Okay. -784 +818 00:44:42,059 --> 00:44:46,048 -Well, we know these 15 guys, or, +Well, we know these 15 guys or, you know, these 15 companies -785 +819 00:44:46,048 --> 00:44:50,159 -are, are hiring and we have a +are- are hiring, and we have a good working relationship with -786 +820 00:44:50,159 --> 00:44:53,458 all of them. And we know regardless of where you end up, -787 +821 00:44:53,909 --> 00:44:55,289 any of them are going to take -care of you. +care of you." -788 +822 00:44:56,199 --> 00:44:58,630 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, -that's so awesome. And it's nice +Bekah: Yeah, that's so awesome. +And it's nice -789 +823 00:44:58,630 --> 00:45:02,739 to have connections with communities where you can see -790 +824 00:45:02,949 --> 00:45:05,739 junior developers who need jobs, and you know that you can vouch -791 +825 00:45:05,739 --> 00:45:09,460 for them too, right? Like, there's a difference. You'll get -792 +826 00:45:09,460 --> 00:45:12,159 -the, I'll get those Twitter -messages like, hey, I saw you +the-- I'll get those Twitter +messages like, "Hey, I saw you -793 +827 00:45:12,159 --> 00:45:15,369 asked about your friend wanting a dotnet job. I want one too. -794 -00:45:15,369 --> 00:45:19,360 -Can you recommend me next? Like, -no (laugh), I don't know you. +828 +00:45:15,369 --> 00:45:17,364 +Can you recommend me next?" +Like, "No [laughs]. I don't know -795 -00:45:20,679 --> 00:45:22,524 -Drew Clements: (laugh) I -actually just had a, I guess was +829 +00:45:17,364 --> 00:45:19,359 +you." -796 -00:45:22,524 --> 00:45:24,369 -kind of a +830 +00:45:20,679 --> 00:45:24,369 +Drew: [Laughs] I actually just +had a-- I guess was kind of a -797 +831 00:45:24,369 --> 00:45:30,750 screening call last week with a -company that they just +company that they just, -798 +832 00:45:27,780 --> 00:45:35,489 like, they hit me up on Twitter, like, out of nowhere. And I -799 +833 00:45:30,750 --> 00:45:39,150 -spent like the last 10 minutes -of that interview, like talking +spent, like, the last 10 minutes +of that interview, like, talking -800 +834 00:45:35,489 --> 00:45:42,780 -someone up from Virtual Coffee, +someone up from Virtual Coffee because that referred them to -801 +835 00:45:39,150 --> 00:45:43,275 -apply to the application. So +apply to the application. So, like, the lady I was -802 +836 00:45:43,275 --> 00:45:47,400 interviewing -803 +837 00:45:42,809 --> 00:45:49,409 -with, she's like, okay, she was -about to do like her +with, she's like, "Okay," she +was about to do, like, her -804 +838 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:53,159 little goodbye speech. And I was -like, wait, before you go. Let +like, "Wait, before you go. Let -805 +839 00:45:49,409 --> 00:45:55,409 -me tell you about this person. -And I was like, they do this, +me tell you about this person." +And I was like, "They do this, -806 +840 00:45:53,159 --> 00:45:59,309 they do this, they have this experience. Look at their -807 +841 00:45:55,409 --> 00:45:59,309 -application. Forget about mine. +application. Forget about mine." -808 +842 00:45:59,369 --> 00:45:59,940 -Dan Ott: Nice. +Dan: Nice. -809 +843 00:46:02,789 --> 00:46:04,530 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Okay, so -another thing I want to talk +Bekah: Okay, so another thing I +want to talk -810 +844 00:46:04,530 --> 00:46:08,159 -about, because you are just -doing like stacks on stacks of +about-- because you are just +doing, like, stacks on stacks of -811 -00:46:08,159 --> 00:46:12,210 -things. Okay, so you're building -a career, you're building a +845 +00:46:08,159 --> 00:46:10,184 +things. Okay. So, you're +building a career, you're -812 +846 +00:46:10,184 --> 00:46:12,209 +building a + +847 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:17,309 community slash movement. And -it's an also an open source +it's an-- also an open source -813 +848 00:46:17,309 --> 00:46:20,369 project, and you're streaming -some of this. So you're like, +some of this. So you're, like-- -814 +849 00:46:20,489 --> 00:46:23,249 okay, let me make this even more -difficult (laugh). So I'm going +difficult [laughs]. So, I'm -815 +850 00:46:23,249 --> 00:46:26,009 -to add +going to add -816 +851 00:46:26,010 --> 00:46:28,800 the open source maintainer thing, and I'm going to stream -817 +852 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:34,590 it. So what was the idea behind adding those components? And, -818 -00:46:34,860 --> 00:46:37,860 -you know, I, both I'm interested -in like, how has that been +853 +00:46:34,860 --> 00:46:36,360 +you know, I-- both I'm +interested in, like, how has -819 +854 +00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:37,860 +that been + +855 00:46:37,860 --> 00:46:41,880 -challenging? But also like, how +challenging? But also, like, how has that helped you as well? -820 +856 00:46:42,409 --> 00:46:45,050 -Drew Clements: Well, we decided -to make an open source, because +Drew: Well, we decided to make +an open source because -821 +857 00:46:45,050 --> 00:46:49,610 -we wanted a way... Well, one of +we wanted a way-- well, one of the questions we kept asking -822 +858 00:46:49,610 --> 00:46:53,690 -ourselves early on was like, +ourselves early on was, like, what can we do to let the -823 +859 00:46:53,690 --> 00:46:55,849 companies know that the candidates they're considering -824 +860 00:46:55,849 --> 00:47:01,699 -here are, you know, worth, worth -the hire, and one of the ways +here are, you know, worth- worth +the hire. And one of the ways -825 +861 00:47:01,699 --> 00:47:06,650 we thought we can do that was make it an open source project -826 +862 00:47:06,650 --> 00:47:09,440 to where those candidates can actually contribute to the -827 +863 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:13,519 -platform itself, you know, we, +platform itself, you know? We- we display anyone's who's -828 +864 00:47:13,789 --> 00:47:18,650 -contributed to the project is on -our contributors page. And the +contributed to the project is-- +on our contributors page. And -829 +865 00:47:18,650 --> 00:47:22,519 -idea behind that was that -companies could, ideally in our +the idea behind that was that +companies could-- ideally, in -830 +866 00:47:22,519 --> 00:47:25,639 -heads is that played out, -companies come here, they, they +our heads is that played out, +companies come here, they- they -831 +867 00:47:25,639 --> 00:47:28,909 -want to post a job. And then +want to post a job. And then, they see it on the contributors -832 +868 00:47:28,909 --> 00:47:32,239 -page that, oh, so there's +page that, "Oh, so there's actually six applicants here -833 +869 00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,630 that have actively helped to build the platform I'm listing -834 +870 00:47:35,630 --> 00:47:38,719 -this job on, you know? Maybe, +this job on," you know? Maybe- maybe that'll help give them -835 +871 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:42,440 some preference or something. And even if it doesn't, then, -836 +872 00:47:42,710 --> 00:47:46,579 you know, we're doing our best -to, to help junior developers, +to- to help junior developers. -837 +873 00:47:46,579 --> 00:47:49,519 -so even if it doesn't help in +So even if it doesn't help in that regard, it gives them the -838 +874 00:47:49,519 --> 00:47:55,369 opportunity to work on a real world app that they can add to -839 +875 00:47:55,369 --> 00:47:58,820 their resume. I mean, even if it's just, you know, I think -840 +876 00:47:58,820 --> 00:48:01,610 there's been some contributions that were just accessibility -841 +877 00:48:01,610 --> 00:48:06,139 fixes. But, you know, that may have just been, you know, from -842 +878 00:48:06,139 --> 00:48:07,459 code perspective, all they did -was changed the Tailwind class, +was changed the Tailwind class. -843 +879 00:48:07,459 --> 00:48:08,779 -but, +But, -844 +880 00:48:09,110 --> 00:48:13,909 you know, they also set up the -project locally, they also, they +project locally, they also- they -845 +881 00:48:13,909 --> 00:48:16,670 also, you know, at least have an understanding of Git and how -846 +882 00:48:16,670 --> 00:48:21,920 that whole process works. So -that was, that was a lot of the +that was- that was a lot of the -847 +883 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:26,630 reasons why we decided to do -that. I decided to stream it, +that. I decided to stream it -848 +884 00:48:26,659 --> 00:48:33,440 -because... Partly because I was +because-- partly because I was unemployed and bored, partly -849 +885 00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,610 because I wanted to force myself -into some accountability. So +into some accountability. So, -850 +886 00:48:37,610 --> 00:48:41,150 like, now, there's a lot of people out there that know this -851 +887 00:48:41,150 --> 00:48:47,869 -is a thing, so I don't want to +is a thing, so-- I don't want to say they're depending on me, but -852 +888 00:48:47,900 --> 00:48:50,465 -they know it's a thing. And -if... I'd feel really bad if I +they know it's a thing. And if-- +I'd feel really bad if I -853 +889 00:48:50,465 --> 00:48:53,030 started -854 +890 00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:55,099 building this thing that was gonna help the community and -855 -00:48:55,099 --> 00:48:59,000 -then just like, let it go. So -now I have all these people that +891 +00:48:55,099 --> 00:48:57,049 +then just, like, let it go. So +now, I have all these people -856 -00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,550 -know it's a thing and they can -just say, hey, how's, how's that +892 +00:48:57,049 --> 00:48:58,999 +that -857 -00:49:01,550 --> 00:49:06,199 -going? And my response can never -be, oh, I turned it off. So +893 +00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:00,275 +know it's a thing, and they can +just say, "Hey, how's- how's -858 +894 +00:49:00,275 --> 00:49:01,550 +that + +895 +00:49:01,550 --> 00:49:03,874 +going?" And my response can +never be, "Oh, I turned it off." + +896 +00:49:03,874 --> 00:49:06,198 +So, + +897 00:49:06,199 --> 00:49:07,880 -that, that's, that's never gonna -be a thing. +that-- that's- that's never +gonna be a thing. -859 +898 00:49:08,780 --> 00:49:11,780 -Dan Ott: I like that idea of the -streaming for, for +Dan: I like that idea of the +streaming for- for -860 +899 00:49:11,780 --> 00:49:16,099 accountability, you know? I mean, the side project issue, -861 +900 00:49:16,130 --> 00:49:19,309 you know, of abandoning in or -not, or whatever, and you're +not, or whatever. And you're -862 -00:49:19,309 --> 00:49:21,440 -right. You're, you already have, -you have an audience of, you +901 +00:49:19,309 --> 00:49:20,374 +right. You're-- you already +have-- you have an audience of-- -863 +902 +00:49:20,374 --> 00:49:21,439 +you + +903 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,820 know, you have people coming in, -but that the, the streaming, I +but that-- the- the streaming, I -864 +904 00:49:25,820 --> 00:49:30,739 -feel like is, is a interesting -bit to add, just for like the +feel like is- is a interesting +bit to add, just for, like, the -865 +905 00:49:30,739 --> 00:49:32,269 -accountability, part of it, you +accountability part of it, you know? I think that's really -866 +906 00:49:32,269 --> 00:49:33,799 cool. -867 +907 00:49:34,639 --> 00:49:36,409 -Drew Clements: Yeah, and -there's, there's actually parts +Drew: Yeah, and there's- there's +actually parts -868 +908 00:49:36,409 --> 00:49:39,260 of the application now that wouldn't exist if it wouldn't -869 +909 00:49:39,260 --> 00:49:42,829 -have been for, for streaming +have been for- for streaming because I'd hit a bug or get -870 +910 00:49:42,829 --> 00:49:44,840 hung up on something that I -probably would have never found, +probably would have never found. -871 +911 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:50,389 -but there have been, there been +But there have been-- there been people in the chat that were, -872 +912 00:49:50,420 --> 00:49:53,420 you know, helping me debug some stuff. And if you look on the -873 +913 00:49:53,449 --> 00:49:59,150 contributors page, the last three entries on it, it actually -874 +914 00:49:59,150 --> 00:50:02,150 just says special commit. Those -are there because those are, +are there because those are- -875 +915 00:50:02,210 --> 00:50:05,269 those are three people that were consistently there for, I think -876 +916 00:50:05,269 --> 00:50:07,340 -the first two months, I was +the first two months. I was working on building a stream to -877 +917 00:50:07,340 --> 00:50:12,409 pretty much every day. So those three people were there for -878 +918 00:50:13,010 --> 00:50:17,179 probably 85% of that streaming process. And we're doing a lot -879 +919 00:50:17,179 --> 00:50:19,519 -of like, you know, coaching or +of, like, you know, coaching or problem solving with me through -880 +920 00:50:19,519 --> 00:50:21,859 the -881 -00:50:21,860 --> 00:50:26,690 -chat. So that's what, that's why -we put them up there. Yeah, and +921 +00:50:21,860 --> 00:50:24,275 +chat. So that's what-- that's +why we put them up there. Yeah. -882 +922 +00:50:24,275 --> 00:50:26,690 +And + +923 00:50:26,690 --> 00:50:30,199 -we've had, we haven't really +we've had-- we haven't really done much marketing for Protege. -883 +924 00:50:30,199 --> 00:50:34,670 -I feel, I feel weird trying to +I feel- I feel weird trying to market a thing I built, but it's -884 +925 00:50:34,699 --> 00:50:35,734 -kind of, kind of through +kind of- kind of through Twitter, and through streaming, -885 -00:50:35,734 --> 00:50:36,769 -and - -886 -00:50:36,769 --> 00:50:40,340 -through a couple of other -communities, we, we've somehow +926 +00:50:35,734 --> 00:50:40,340 +and through a couple of other +communities. We-- we've somehow -887 +927 00:50:40,340 --> 00:50:45,679 -managed to, we average around +managed to-- we average around 400 users per month, which, you -888 +928 00:50:45,679 --> 00:50:49,789 -know, in the, in the larger +know, in the- in the larger scale of Google Analytics -889 +929 00:50:49,789 --> 00:50:53,119 probably isn't a whole lot. But -for, for something I started +for- for something I started -890 +930 00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:56,869 building out of nowhere last year with no marketing, I think -891 +931 00:50:56,869 --> 00:51:01,340 that's pretty good numbers. So -we're really, we have a phase +we're really-- we have a phase -892 +932 00:51:01,340 --> 00:51:03,860 -two, we're kind of like ramping +two. We're kind of like ramping up for now, which is part of -893 -00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:10,070 -next, the next migration as part -of that. So we want, we want to +933 +00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,995 +next-- the next migration as +part of that. So we want- we -894 +934 +00:51:06,995 --> 00:51:10,070 +want to + +935 00:51:10,070 --> 00:51:14,389 get those numbers up not because we want, you know, good -895 +936 00:51:14,539 --> 00:51:20,360 -analytic points, or whatever the -business side of that is, but if +analytic points or whatever the +business side of that is. But if -896 +937 00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,000 we can get that number up, then -that's more people that are, +that's more people that are-- -897 +938 00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,420 that's just more people we're helping or, you know, maybe it -898 +939 00:51:26,809 --> 00:51:30,710 -at least giving hope that you +at least giving hope that, you know, someone's out there doing -899 +940 00:51:30,710 --> 00:51:33,019 -something on, on the behalf of +something on- on the behalf of them. -900 +941 00:51:34,530 --> 00:51:37,710 -Dan Ott: Absolutely. And, you -know, the bigger community gets +Dan: Absolutely. And, you know, +the bigger community gets, -901 +942 00:51:37,739 --> 00:51:42,449 -like around that or audience or -whatever, you know, the more, +like, around that or audience or +whatever, you know? The more-- -902 +943 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,119 it's sort of exponentially increases the exposure without -903 +944 00:51:45,510 --> 00:51:50,760 -even doing ads, or you know, +even doing ads or, you know, anything specific did grow -904 +945 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,400 -it, you know, yeah. That's +it, you know? Yeah. That's really cool. -905 +946 00:51:54,449 --> 00:51:54,780 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: All right, -Drew, +Bekah: All right, Drew, -906 +947 00:51:55,199 --> 00:51:58,739 thanks for being here with us. We really enjoyed having you. -907 +948 00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,739 And congratulations on everything that you've done with -908 +949 00:52:01,739 --> 00:52:05,369 -Protege and for your one year, +Protege, and for your one year anniversary, or birthday, or -909 +950 00:52:05,369 --> 00:52:09,000 whatever you want to call it -going up. So where can our +going up. So, where can our -910 +951 00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:09,900 listeners find you? -911 +952 00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:16,409 -Drew Clements: You can find me -on Twitter @drewclemcr8, +Drew: You can find me on Twitter +@drewclemcr8, -912 +953 00:52:16,409 --> 00:52:18,764 -drew-clem-c-r-8, because you +drew-clem-c-r-8 because, you know, all the good handles are -913 +954 00:52:18,764 --> 00:52:21,119 taken. -914 +955 00:52:22,230 --> 00:52:26,159 -You can find me, I haven't been -streaming a lot lately, because +You can find me-- I haven't been +streaming a lot lately because -915 +956 00:52:26,159 --> 00:52:31,679 of, you know, work and two kids. But I'm on Twitch at -916 +957 00:52:31,710 --> 00:52:36,719 twitch.tv/ducky_87. I used to do some gaming -917 +958 00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,869 -streaming like, four years ago, +streaming, like, four years ago, and I just never changed the -918 +959 00:52:39,869 --> 00:52:46,559 handle. And now just kind of -like it, so... And you can also +like it. So-- and you can also -919 +960 00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:51,119 -find me, you can find me in the +find me-- you can find me in the Virtual Coffee sessions. Do you -920 +961 00:52:51,119 --> 00:52:53,760 ever want to pop in and join one of those? Usually on Tuesdays. I -921 +962 00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:55,440 -can't make, I usually can't make -Thursdays. +can't make-- I usually can't +make Thursdays. -922 +963 00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,679 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah. And -also there's some open issues on +Bekah: Yeah. And also there's +some open issues on Protege. -923 +964 00:52:58,679 --> 00:53:02,429 -Protege. So if you're interested -in contributing, it's a great +So, if you're interested in +contributing, it's a great -924 +965 00:53:02,429 --> 00:53:05,730 project. It's got a great community behind it. And there's -925 +966 00:53:05,730 --> 00:53:09,389 lots of people there too, willing to help and answer -926 +967 00:53:09,389 --> 00:53:13,889 -questions. So we're very glad +questions. So, we're very glad that you came here on this -927 +968 00:53:13,889 --> 00:53:16,260 podcast and that you've been -working on this project. So +working on this project. So, -928 +969 00:53:16,289 --> 00:53:17,909 thanks, Drew. -929 +970 00:53:17,909 --> 00:53:18,960 -Drew Clements: Thank you. +Drew: Thank you. -930 +971 00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:19,500 -Dan Ott: Thanks, Drew. +Dan: Thanks, Drew. -931 +972 00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,329 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Thank you -for listening to this episode of +Bekah: Thank you for listening +to this episode of -932 +973 00:53:25,329 --> 00:53:29,530 -the Virtual Coffee podcast. This +the Virtual Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott -933 +974 00:53:29,530 --> 00:53:33,730 and Bekah Hawrot Weigel, and edited by Dan Ott. If you have -934 +975 00:53:33,730 --> 00:53:35,335 questions or comments, you can hit us up on Twitter -935 +976 00:53:35,335 --> 00:53:36,940 @VirtualCoffeeIO. -936 +977 00:53:36,940 --> 00:53:41,889 Or you can email us at podcast@virtualcoffee.io. -937 +978 00:53:42,909 --> 00:53:45,519 You can find the show notes. -Plus you can sign up for our +Plus, you can sign up for our -938 +979 00:53:45,519 --> 00:53:48,579 newsletter to find out what Virtual Coffee has been up to on -939 +980 00:53:48,579 --> 00:53:50,829 our website at virtualcoffee.io. -940 +981 00:53:53,159 --> 00:53:55,858 -Dan Ott: Please subscribe to our +Dan: Please subscribe to our podcast and be sure to leave us -941 +982 00:53:55,858 --> 00:53:59,068 -a review. Thanks for listening +a review. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week. \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/episodes/1_7.srt b/episodes/1_7.srt index 3a52a92..702ef39 100644 --- a/episodes/1_7.srt +++ b/episodes/1_7.srt @@ -1,7 +1,7 @@ 1 00:00:13,830 --> 00:00:16,710 Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Hello, and -welcome to season 1, episode +welcome to Season 1, Episode 2 00:00:16,710 --> 00:00:22,859 @@ -19,4924 +19,5147 @@ Virtual Coffee is an intimate group of developers at all 5 -00:00:29,519 --> 00:00:32,460 +00:00:29,519 --> 00:00:30,989 stages of their coding journey. -And they're here on this podcast +And they're here, on this 6 +00:00:30,989 --> 00:00:32,459 +podcast, + +7 00:00:32,460 --> 00:00:35,670 sharing their stories and what they've learned. And we're here -7 +8 00:00:35,670 --> 00:00:39,750 to share it with you. Here with me today is my co-host, Dan. -8 +9 00:00:40,619 --> 00:00:43,469 Dan Ott: Thanks, Bekah. In this episode, we talked to Colleen -9 +10 00:00:43,469 --> 00:00:47,100 Schnettler. Colleen is a Ruby on Rails consultant who recently -10 +11 00:00:47,100 --> 00:00:50,670 launched her first product called Simple File Upload. She's -11 +12 00:00:50,670 --> 00:00:54,719 also a career changer and a mom. We discussed the challenges of -12 +13 00:00:54,719 --> 00:00:57,600 being a woman in the workplace, the benefits of working for -13 +14 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,170 yourself, and how difficult it can be to learn to code in the -14 +15 00:01:01,170 --> 00:01:04,709 first place. It can take time and commitment, but when you get -15 +16 00:01:04,709 --> 00:01:06,060 there, it will all be worth it. -16 +17 00:01:06,989 --> 00:01:08,819 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: We start -every episode of the podcast +Bekah: We start every episode of +the podcast -17 +18 00:01:08,819 --> 00:01:11,640 like we start every Virtual Coffee. We introduce ourselves -18 +19 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,604 with our name, where we're from, what we do, and a random -19 +20 00:01:13,604 --> 00:01:15,568 check-in -20 +21 00:01:15,569 --> 00:01:20,280 -question. Today's question is +question. Today's question is, what movie can you watch -21 +22 00:01:20,310 --> 00:01:25,859 over and over without ever getting tired of? We hope you -22 +23 00:01:25,859 --> 00:01:40,890 enjoy this episode. Hey, I'm -Bekah, I'm a front end +Bekah, I'm a front-end -23 +24 00:01:36,359 --> 00:01:45,659 developer from a small town in Ohio. And if I could watch any -24 +25 00:01:40,890 --> 00:01:50,400 movie over and over, it would depend on my mood and the genre. -25 -00:01:45,659 --> 00:01:52,109 -But The Sandlot and The Princess -Bride are solid choices. - 26 -00:01:52,709 --> 00:01:54,120 -Dan Ott: Oh, yeah. Princess -Bride, it's really good. +00:01:45,659 --> 00:01:48,884 +But "The Sandlot and The +Princess Bride" are solid 27 -00:01:57,719 --> 00:01:59,324 -Um, I'm not... Sandlot, I've -never been a huge fan of. Which +00:01:48,884 --> 00:01:52,109 +choices. 28 -00:01:59,324 --> 00:02:00,929 -is like, I know, I +00:01:52,709 --> 00:01:54,120 +Dan: Oh, yeah. Princess Bride, +it's really good. 29 -00:02:00,930 --> 00:02:02,715 -know it's, I know. But it's just -like there's a mean dog. And I +00:01:57,719 --> 00:01:59,324 +I'm not-- Sandlot, I've never +been a huge fan of. Which 30 -00:02:02,715 --> 00:02:04,500 -don't +00:01:59,324 --> 00:02:00,929 +is, like-- I know, I 31 -00:02:04,500 --> 00:02:05,549 -know, it's just too much for me. +00:02:00,930 --> 00:02:01,822 +know it's-- I know. But it's +just, like, there's a mean dog. 32 -00:02:05,670 --> 00:02:06,854 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: The dog's -not really mean. Spoiler alert. +00:02:01,822 --> 00:02:02,714 +And, I 33 -00:02:06,854 --> 00:02:08,038 -(laugh) +00:02:02,715 --> 00:02:04,500 +don't 34 -00:02:09,650 --> 00:02:10,385 -Dan Ott: All right, well, -(laugh) maybe I should watch it +00:02:04,500 --> 00:02:05,549 +know. It's just too much for me. 35 -00:02:10,385 --> 00:02:11,120 -again. +00:02:05,670 --> 00:02:08,038 +Bekah: The dog's not really +mean. Spoiler alert. [Laughs] 36 -00:02:13,189 --> 00:02:16,639 -Hi, I'm Dan, I do front end -development from Cleveland, +00:02:09,650 --> 00:02:10,385 +Dan: All right, well, [laughs] +maybe I should watch it 37 -00:02:16,699 --> 00:02:22,550 -Ohio. My movie that I watch, can -pretty much watch anytime is The +00:02:10,385 --> 00:02:11,120 +again. 38 -00:02:22,550 --> 00:02:27,710 -Matrix, I guess. And also, Thor -Ragnarok more recently. But +00:02:13,189 --> 00:02:16,639 +Hi, I'm Dan, I do front-end +development from Cleveland, 39 -00:02:27,740 --> 00:02:31,939 -I've, that movie came out, what, -four years ago? I don't know +00:02:16,699 --> 00:02:19,624 +Ohio. My movie that I watch-- +can pretty much watch anytime is 40 -00:02:31,939 --> 00:02:33,860 -when it came out exactly. But I -think I've watched it like 20 +00:02:19,624 --> 00:02:22,549 +"The 41 -00:02:33,860 --> 00:02:36,800 -times, so... (laugh) That's, I -mean, it's a good, I don't know, +00:02:22,550 --> 00:02:25,130 +Matrix", I guess. And also, +"Thor Ragnarok" more recently. 42 -00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,740 -like watched every +00:02:25,130 --> 00:02:27,710 +But 43 +00:02:27,740 --> 00:02:29,839 +I've-- that movie came out, +what, four years ago? I don't + +44 +00:02:29,839 --> 00:02:31,938 +know + +45 +00:02:31,939 --> 00:02:33,860 +when it came out exactly. But I +think, I've watched it, like, 20 + +46 +00:02:33,860 --> 00:02:35,330 +times, so [laughs]-- that's-- I +mean, it's a good-- I don't + +47 +00:02:35,330 --> 00:02:36,800 +know, + +48 +00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,740 +like, watched every + +49 00:02:39,740 --> 00:02:41,120 second of it. But I like it. -44 +50 00:02:42,889 --> 00:02:45,590 Colleen Schnettler: I'm Colleen. I'm a Rails developer. I am -45 +51 00:02:45,590 --> 00:02:48,289 right now on the East Coast, but about to move to the West Coast. -46 +52 00:02:48,830 --> 00:02:55,039 And a movie I could watch over -and over would be Moana. I mean, +and over would be "Moana". I -47 +53 00:02:55,039 --> 00:02:58,520 -it's just like the perfect +mean, it's just like the perfect movie. The music is amazing. The -48 +54 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,449 story is amazing. It's funny. I know I'm giving myself a way as -49 +55 00:03:02,449 --> 00:03:05,780 like having to have watched it a million times. But I never get -50 +56 00:03:05,780 --> 00:03:06,229 sick of it. -51 +57 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,319 -Dan Ott: It is the perfect -movie. My kids have gotten sick +Dan: It is the perfect movie. My +kids have gotten sick of it. -52 +58 00:03:10,319 --> 00:03:13,889 -of it. Because I'm, and yeah, we -could have a whole podcast about +Because I'm-- and yeah, we could +have a whole podcast about -53 +59 00:03:13,889 --> 00:03:16,034 movies that I've unwillingly -watched a million times (laugh). +watched a million times -54 +60 00:03:16,034 --> 00:03:18,179 -That's +[laughs]. That's -55 -00:03:18,180 --> 00:03:22,080 -a whole separate, separate -question. But Moana is awesome. +61 +00:03:18,180 --> 00:03:20,130 +a whole separate- separate +question. But "Moana" is -56 +62 +00:03:20,130 --> 00:03:22,080 +awesome. + +63 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:23,460 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I feel like -I need to go back and watch +Bekah: I feel like I need to go +back and watch -57 +64 00:03:23,490 --> 00:03:28,110 -Moana again, coz I think I fell -asleep or got bored. +"Moana" again, cuz I think, I +fell asleep or got bored. -58 +65 00:03:28,469 --> 00:03:30,360 -Dan Ott: It's just so good. And -you know, happy and, I don't +Dan: It's just so good. And, you +know, happy and-- I don't -59 +66 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:31,800 know. It's good. I like it. -60 -00:03:32,550 --> 00:03:33,900 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I like the -soundtrack. "I am Mo..." Okay. - -61 -00:03:33,900 --> 00:03:35,250 -We can cut +67 +00:03:32,550 --> 00:03:35,250 +Bekah: I like the soundtrack. "I +am Mo..." Okay. We can cut -62 +68 00:03:35,250 --> 00:03:38,954 -that. I don't mean, I'm not -gonna sing. (laugh) Anyway, +that. I don't mean-- I'm not +gonna sing. [Laughs] Anyway, -63 +69 00:03:38,954 --> 00:03:42,658 thanks for being here, -64 +70 00:03:42,659 --> 00:03:48,000 Colleen. We are super happy to -have you on the podcast. And, +have you on the podcast. And -65 +71 00:03:48,060 --> 00:03:51,599 -um, when we start off the -podcast, we just always like to +when we start off the podcast, +we just always like to -66 +72 00:03:51,599 --> 00:03:55,650 get the origin story of our -guests. So you have quite an +guests. So, you have quite an -67 +73 00:03:55,650 --> 00:03:58,560 origin story. You're a career changer as well. But let's just -68 +74 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,699 kind of start there. How'd you get into software engineering? -69 +75 00:04:04,319 --> 00:04:08,250 -Colleen Schnettler: Sure. So my -background is actually in +Colleen: Sure. So my background +is actually in -70 +76 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:12,990 -electrical engineering. So very +electrical engineering. So, very hard work, hardware focused. And -71 +77 00:04:13,020 --> 00:04:16,829 -the first half of my career I -worked at the shipyard, at a +the first half of my career, I +worked at the shipyard-- at a -72 +78 00:04:16,829 --> 00:04:20,370 shipyard in Newport News, where we were working on some of the -73 +79 00:04:20,370 --> 00:04:26,040 electronic systems surrounding naval aircraft carriers. And I -74 +80 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,870 ended up leaving that job to stay home with my children. And -75 +81 00:04:30,870 --> 00:04:35,670 then I stayed home with the kids for three or four years. And it -76 +82 00:04:35,670 --> 00:04:38,639 was around that time when I was staying home when I was getting -77 +83 00:04:38,639 --> 00:04:43,290 ready to go back to work, that I really, really wanted flexible -78 +84 00:04:43,290 --> 00:04:49,560 and remote work. And it's so hard to find that. Even with an -79 +85 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,689 engineering background. My previous work had been so hands -80 +86 00:04:54,689 --> 00:04:57,959 on that there was no -opportunity, especially in +opportunity—especially in -81 +87 00:04:57,959 --> 00:05:01,290 -defense contracting, there was -no opportunity for me to do +defense contracting—there was no +opportunity for me to do -82 +88 00:05:01,290 --> 00:05:05,670 that work remotely. And so I started looking for other -83 +89 00:05:05,699 --> 00:05:10,379 opportunities. And I started trying to teach myself to learn -84 +90 00:05:10,379 --> 00:05:14,870 to code. I released an iOS app, which I -85 +91 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:18,740 don't know that I've mentioned -before, maybe I have. Anyway, in +before-- maybe I have. Anyway, -86 +92 00:05:14,870 --> 00:05:22,579 -like, 2012, and it was a -disaster and like, the thing +in, like, 2012—and it was a +disaster—and, like, the thing -87 +93 00:05:18,740 --> 00:05:27,139 hardly worked. I mean, you have to pay Apple $100 a month to be -88 +94 00:05:22,579 --> 00:05:28,114 -in their developer program. So, -yeah, right? (laugh) So, it was, +in their developer program. So-- +yeah, right? [Laughs] So, it -89 +95 00:05:28,114 --> 00:05:33,649 -um, it didn't work +was-- it didn't work -90 +96 00:05:27,170 --> 00:05:36,560 out the way I had hoped. I did everything wrong. Like, I did -91 +97 00:05:33,649 --> 00:05:41,779 everything wrong with this iOS app. But what I realized what -92 +98 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:46,910 -was, there was a way I could -stay in my house and work and +was-- there was a way I could +stay in my house, and work, and -93 +99 00:05:41,810 --> 00:05:50,569 -get paid. And so the process +get paid. And so, the process took many, many, many years to -94 +100 00:05:46,910 --> 00:05:54,920 get where I am today, but I just kind of started chipping away at -95 +101 00:05:50,569 --> 00:05:57,709 -learning web development, -because I saw that as an +learning web development because +I saw that as an -96 +102 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,129 opportunity for flexible remote work. -97 +103 00:05:59,259 --> 00:06:04,240 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, that -is awesome. I think the +Bekah: Yeah, that is awesome. I +think the -98 +104 00:06:04,269 --> 00:06:09,160 first CodeNewbie podcast I ever listened to was your episode. -99 +105 00:06:09,550 --> 00:06:12,639 -And it was so great, because I -was like, okay, like, look, +And it was so great because I +was like, "Okay," like, "Look, -100 +106 00:06:12,670 --> 00:06:14,860 -look, she did this. And I don't -know, it gave me a lot of +look, she did this." And-- I +don't know. It gave me a lot of -101 -00:06:15,129 --> 00:06:18,970 +107 +00:06:15,129 --> 00:06:17,049 confidence to keep moving -forward with my journey. So very +forward with my journey. So, -102 +108 +00:06:17,049 --> 00:06:18,969 +very + +109 00:06:18,970 --> 00:06:22,269 much appreciate you sharing your story and being willing to talk -103 +110 00:06:22,269 --> 00:06:26,860 through that journey. -104 +111 00:06:26,930 --> 00:06:28,459 -Colleen Schnettler: That's -awesome. I'm glad you got +Colleen: That's awesome. I'm +glad you got -105 +112 00:06:28,459 --> 00:06:29,209 something out of it. -106 +113 00:06:30,990 --> 00:06:34,769 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I also like -to ask everybody, their history +Bekah: I also like to ask +everybody their history -107 +114 00:06:34,769 --> 00:06:39,149 -with Virtual Coffee. So how did +with Virtual Coffee. So, how did you come to Virtual Coffee? -108 +115 00:06:40,110 --> 00:06:43,589 -Colleen Schnettler: So I have -forever been looking for a +Colleen: So, I have forever been +looking for a -109 +116 00:06:43,589 --> 00:06:49,170 -community, with, with people on -the internet, right? Like, I'm, +community with- with people on +the internet, right? Like, I'm- -110 +117 00:06:49,500 --> 00:06:52,980 I'm not great in big groups. I love people. And I love -111 +118 00:06:52,980 --> 00:06:55,709 -interacting with people. But +interacting with people. But, like, if you put me in a Zoom -112 +119 00:06:55,709 --> 00:06:57,419 -room with like, 10 people or +room with, like, 10 people or more, I'm out. Like, I'm -113 +120 00:06:57,419 --> 00:06:59,129 mentally -114 +121 00:06:59,129 --> 00:07:01,319 checked out. Like, I just can't really wrap my brain around -115 -00:07:01,319 --> 00:07:06,540 -that. And so I've actually -joined several groups. Internet, +122 +00:07:01,319 --> 00:07:03,929 +that. And so, I've actually +joined several groups-- -116 +123 +00:07:03,929 --> 00:07:06,539 +internet, + +124 00:07:06,540 --> 00:07:07,830 -internet groups, I don't know -what you call this (laugh). +internet groups. I don't know +what you call this [laughs]. -117 +125 00:07:07,830 --> 00:07:09,120 Community is a better -118 +126 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,290 word. I've joined several communities. But the ones I've -119 +127 00:07:13,290 --> 00:07:16,889 joined, I've had two really distinct problems. The first -120 +128 00:07:16,889 --> 00:07:20,699 problem is that it's just so hard to foster authentic -121 -00:07:20,699 --> 00:07:23,819 +129 +00:07:20,699 --> 00:07:22,259 connection on the internet with -large groups of people. It just +large groups of people. It -122 -00:07:23,850 --> 00:07:26,879 -is like, if you don't get to -know someone, it's just I really +130 +00:07:22,259 --> 00:07:23,819 +just-- -123 +131 +00:07:23,850 --> 00:07:25,364 +is, like, if you don't get to +know someone-- it's, just, I + +132 +00:07:25,364 --> 00:07:26,878 +really + +133 00:07:26,879 --> 00:07:30,810 struggle with that. And the second thing is I have joined -124 +134 00:07:30,810 --> 00:07:34,470 some paid communities. And -they're paid for like, because +they're paid for, like-- because -125 +135 00:07:34,470 --> 00:07:36,600 -I'm trying to, I'm starting a +I'm trying to-- I'm starting a business. So I've joined some of -126 +136 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,709 those communities. And those are more like highlight reels of -127 +137 00:07:40,740 --> 00:07:43,139 everyone's success. So it's -almost like people are just +almost, like, people are just, -128 +138 00:07:43,139 --> 00:07:46,470 like, dropping in to tell you how awesome they are and to -129 +139 00:07:46,470 --> 00:07:49,050 -promote their product. And, and +promote their product. And- and, of course, we're all trying to -130 -00:07:49,050 --> 00:07:52,110 +140 +00:07:49,050 --> 00:07:50,580 protect ourselves, right? I get -it. But it doesn't, that doesn't +it. But it doesn't-- that -131 +141 +00:07:50,580 --> 00:07:52,110 +doesn't + +142 00:07:52,110 --> 00:07:54,329 do anything for me. I'm sure you're doing great. That's -132 +143 00:07:54,329 --> 00:07:57,480 wonderful. But it's hard for me -to find, really until I found +to find-- really, until I found -133 -00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:03,000 -you guys. You know, it was just, -I didn't find a community where +144 +00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,240 +you guys. You know, it was +just-- I didn't find a community -134 +145 +00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,000 +where + +146 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:07,230 people were honest. And I think we have pandemic. We're all at -135 +147 00:08:07,230 --> 00:08:11,730 home. We got our kids running -around like, we need a space to +around, like, we need a space to -136 +148 00:08:11,730 --> 00:08:12,930 be honest. -137 +149 00:08:14,189 --> 00:08:17,850 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, for -sure. And I feel like I also +Bekah: Yeah, for sure. And I +feel like I also -138 +150 00:08:17,850 --> 00:08:20,699 -recruited you. I was like, oh, -you're super cool. +recruited you. I was like, "Oh, +you're super cool." -139 +151 00:08:20,730 --> 00:08:22,020 -Colleen Schnettler: Oh yeah. -That's too. You actually did. +Colleen: Oh, yeah. That's too. +You actually did. -140 +152 00:08:22,020 --> 00:08:23,310 Like, I hate that I'm so -141 +153 00:08:23,310 --> 00:08:26,220 high maintenance that you had to -recruit me. Like, like, I saw +recruit me. Like- like, I saw -142 +154 00:08:26,220 --> 00:08:28,709 you on Twitter talking about it. -And I was like, I should do +And I was like, "I should do -143 +155 00:08:28,709 --> 00:08:31,620 -that. But like, I was just so +that." But, like, I was just so overwhelmed by the current -144 -00:08:31,620 --> 00:08:35,250 +156 +00:08:31,620 --> 00:08:33,435 demands on my time. Like, it was -just like, I cannot, I can't do +just, like-- I cannot-- I can't -145 -00:08:35,250 --> 00:08:37,440 -another, I was like, I can't do -another Slack group. I can't do +157 +00:08:33,435 --> 00:08:35,250 +do -146 +158 +00:08:35,250 --> 00:08:36,345 +another-- I was like, "I can't +do another Slack group. I can't + +159 +00:08:36,345 --> 00:08:37,440 +do + +160 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,110 -another fake community. No +another fake community." No offense. I didn't know at the -147 +161 00:08:40,110 --> 00:08:43,500 -time, it was like, I can't do +time. It was, like, I can't do another group of people that -148 -00:08:43,500 --> 00:08:45,360 -don't really like, like, +162 +00:08:43,500 --> 00:08:47,220 +don't really, like- like, connect. And you did. You sent -149 -00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,220 -me - -150 +163 00:08:47,220 --> 00:08:50,730 -a message and asked me -specifically. So again, I'm +me a message and asked me +specifically. So, again, I'm -151 +164 00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:53,025 -sorry, I'm such a pain that you +sorry. I'm such a pain that you had to told me in. But after you -152 +165 00:08:53,025 --> 00:08:55,320 did, -153 +166 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,600 it's been really great. And I really appreciate you reaching -154 +167 00:08:57,629 --> 00:08:59,309 out and inviting me. -155 +168 00:09:00,298 --> 00:09:02,038 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, no, -I'm very glad you're here, +Bekah: Yeah, no. I'm very glad +you're here, -156 +169 00:09:02,038 --> 00:09:06,328 obviously, because I reached out and made sure that you came -157 +170 00:09:07,078 --> 00:09:12,479 because I wanted you here too. -So yeah, I'm glad that I did +So, yeah. I'm glad that I did -158 +171 00:09:12,479 --> 00:09:12,839 that. -159 +172 + +173 00:09:14,700 --> 00:09:16,649 -Dan Ott: That's, that's really +Dan: That's- that's really interesting. The point you were -160 +174 00:09:16,649 --> 00:09:19,860 making about there was the private community where, you -161 +175 00:09:19,860 --> 00:09:23,370 -know, the highlight real thing, +know, the highlight reel thing, you know, as you termed it, -162 -00:09:23,399 --> 00:09:25,994 -right? The, everybody's always, -I don't know, they, motivation +176 +00:09:23,399 --> 00:09:24,696 +right? The-- everybody's +always-- I don't know. They-- -163 +177 +00:09:24,696 --> 00:09:25,993 +motivation + +178 00:09:25,994 --> 00:09:28,589 for sharing your -164 +179 00:09:28,590 --> 00:09:38,220 successes is I suppose fairly -clear, you know? But the, you +clear, you know? But the-- you -165 +180 00:09:38,220 --> 00:09:42,419 -know, I found, I found similar, -I've found, I've had similar +know, I found- I found similar-- +I've found-- I've had similar -166 +181 00:09:42,419 --> 00:09:44,879 -issues with community, online -communities where I've just +issues with community—online +communities—where I've just -167 +182 00:09:44,879 --> 00:09:48,089 never really connected, you know, as well. And the highlight -168 +183 00:09:48,089 --> 00:09:51,299 -real +reel -169 +184 00:09:51,299 --> 00:09:54,179 -thing is aspect that I, I've +thing is aspect that I-- I've never liked, framed it that way. -170 +185 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,554 -Like the... you want to be able +Like, the-- you want to be able to share your wins, you know, -171 +186 00:09:57,554 --> 00:10:00,388 and -172 +187 00:10:00,389 --> 00:10:04,919 -get high fives or whatever. But, -but the fact that like you'd, +get high fives or whatever. But- +but the fact that, like, you'd, -173 -00:10:04,980 --> 00:10:07,169 -like being very honest and -shared, being able to share, you +188 +00:10:04,980 --> 00:10:06,074 +like, being very honest and +shared-- being able to share, -174 +189 +00:10:06,074 --> 00:10:07,168 +you + +190 00:10:07,169 --> 00:10:10,769 -know, I don't know. I don't like -saying failures, you know, but +know? I don't know. I don't like +saying failures, you know? But, -175 +191 00:10:10,769 --> 00:10:15,990 like, not wins, you know? Hardships and struggles, you -176 +192 00:10:15,990 --> 00:10:17,805 know, things like that, I see it's something that sort of -177 +193 00:10:17,805 --> 00:10:19,620 happened -178 +194 00:10:19,620 --> 00:10:23,159 -naturally here. But it is, I -mean, it is one of the like, +naturally here. But it is-- I +mean, it is one of the, like, -179 +195 00:10:23,639 --> 00:10:26,669 -things that we, we very much -value and I think, really does, +things that we- we very much +value, and I think, really does, -180 +196 00:10:26,700 --> 00:10:29,429 you know, make Virtual Coffee -unique. (laugh) +unique [laughs]. -181 +197 00:10:29,929 --> 00:10:31,549 -Colleen Schnettler: Well, I -think the thing that's, that's +Colleen: Well, I think the thing +that's- that's -182 +198 00:10:31,549 --> 00:10:33,919 -important to remember is it's +important to remember is, it's because of the leadership team. -183 -00:10:34,250 --> 00:10:38,450 +199 +00:10:34,250 --> 00:10:36,350 Which is you guys. I mean, -Bekah'll drop in some like super +Bekah'll drop in some, like, -184 +200 +00:10:36,350 --> 00:10:38,450 +super + +201 00:10:38,450 --> 00:10:40,010 personal stuff. And I'm like, -whoa, like your midweek +"Whoa." Like, your midweek -185 +202 00:10:40,010 --> 00:10:41,570 -check-in, +check-in. -186 +203 00:10:41,570 --> 00:10:44,000 -it was like a couple months ago, -you like drop this, like, +It was, like, a couple months +ago, you, like, drop this, like, -187 -00:10:44,059 --> 00:10:47,629 +204 +00:10:44,059 --> 00:10:45,844 super personal midweek check-in. -And I was like, oh, like, this +And I was like, "Oh," like, -188 -00:10:47,629 --> 00:10:50,539 -is a real midweek check-in like, -we're actually gonna be honest. +205 +00:10:45,844 --> 00:10:47,629 +"This -189 -00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,289 -Okay, I can do that. But I'm -just not, I think guys, too, for +206 +00:10:47,629 --> 00:10:49,084 +is a real midweek check-in," +like, "We're actually gonna be -190 +207 +00:10:49,084 --> 00:10:50,539 +honest. + +208 +00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,444 +Okay, I can do that." But I'm +just not-- I think, guys, too, + +209 +00:10:52,444 --> 00:10:54,288 +for + +210 00:10:54,289 --> 00:10:57,409 me, like, I've been a woman in -engineering for like, 20 years +engineering for, like, 20 years -191 -00:10:57,409 --> 00:11:01,879 +211 +00:10:57,409 --> 00:10:59,644 now. Minus the four years I was -home. And so I am super, super, +home. And so, I am super, -192 +212 +00:10:59,644 --> 00:11:01,879 +super-- + +213 00:11:01,909 --> 00:11:04,250 because the way I've been treated in the past, like, just -193 +214 00:11:04,250 --> 00:11:10,220 honestly, I'm super protective of myself and my abilities. And -194 +215 00:11:10,250 --> 00:11:14,240 -I think that mostly I, because -of that, I always try to present +I think that mostly I—because of +that—I always try to present -195 +216 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,019 -myself a very specific way, +myself a very specific way because I feel so judged all the -196 +217 00:11:18,019 --> 00:11:22,669 time. And that's just a culmination of 10 years working -197 +218 00:11:22,669 --> 00:11:26,539 in an office and just having to -deal with that. And so I have +deal with that. And so, I have -198 +219 00:11:26,539 --> 00:11:28,174 -this really like, I don't know +this really-- like, I don't know if you say chip on my shoulder, -199 +220 00:11:28,174 --> 00:11:29,809 I'd -200 +221 00:11:29,809 --> 00:11:33,139 rather say defense mechanism. -But I have this like, really +But I have this, like, really -201 +222 00:11:33,139 --> 00:11:36,259 serious shield in front of me. So I'm not going to go into a -202 +223 00:11:36,259 --> 00:11:38,059 group. And these groups I'm in -are all men, too, mostly. Like +are all men, too, mostly. Like, -203 +224 00:11:38,059 --> 00:11:39,859 the -204 +225 00:11:39,860 --> 00:11:41,345 -paid community I'm in (laugh), -there's like, maybe five other +paid community I'm in [laughs], +there's, like, maybe five other -205 +226 00:11:41,345 --> 00:11:42,830 women. -206 +227 00:11:44,539 --> 00:11:48,080 And so, you know, I really always have those shields up, -207 +228 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,220 because I feel like I'm just judged differently. Whether it's -208 +229 00:11:52,220 --> 00:11:54,289 true or not, I don't know. But it's just my perception. -209 -00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:56,564 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: No, I feel -that so much. And I think it, - -210 -00:11:56,564 --> 00:11:58,018 -for +230 +00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:58,018 +Bekah: No, I feel that so much. +And I think it-- for -211 +231 00:11:58,019 --> 00:12:03,299 -me, this is (laugh) a very new +me, this is [laughs] a very new experience sharing very open -212 +232 00:12:03,330 --> 00:12:07,529 things about myself. Because I -spent a lot of years like with +spent a lot of years, like, with -213 +233 00:12:07,529 --> 00:12:10,470 the shield up and doing exactly -what you're saying. And then at +what you're saying. And then, at -214 +234 00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:13,409 -one point, I just, I couldn't +one point, I just-- I couldn't anymore because of what I had -215 +235 00:12:13,409 --> 00:12:16,529 -gone through, like it was a -breaking point. And so I was +gone through, like, it was a +breaking point. And so, I was -216 +236 00:12:16,529 --> 00:12:19,049 like, well, you know, I went -from sharing nothing to like, +from sharing nothing to, like, -217 +237 00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:22,679 -here, here is everything, like, +here, here is everything. Like, I will just hand you my heart -218 +238 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,370 and do what you want with it. And I'm gonna keep moving on. -219 +239 00:12:26,370 --> 00:12:30,269 But, you know, you said something too about, like, -220 +240 00:12:30,299 --> 00:12:33,210 communities can be really exhausting online as well, -221 +241 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,509 -right? Like it's one more thing +right? Like, it's one more thing to do, right? And I think that -222 -00:12:36,509 --> 00:12:41,490 +242 +00:12:36,509 --> 00:12:38,999 you find the good community when -you are like, okay, this isn't. +you are like, "Okay, this -223 +243 +00:12:38,999 --> 00:12:41,489 +isn't-- + +244 00:12:41,519 --> 00:12:45,539 -These are, these are people who +These are- these are people who support me as a person. And -224 -00:12:45,809 --> 00:12:50,580 -they, they are interested in me -as a human being not as like a +245 +00:12:45,809 --> 00:12:48,194 +they- they are interested in me +as a human being, not as-- like -225 -00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:55,919 -possible consumer, or, you know, -as this, this one thing that +246 +00:12:48,194 --> 00:12:50,579 +a -226 +247 +00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,519 +possible consumer," or, you +know, as this- this one thing + +248 +00:12:53,519 --> 00:12:55,918 +that + +249 00:12:55,919 --> 00:12:58,830 separates you from your humanity. And it's really hard -227 +250 00:12:58,830 --> 00:13:01,845 to find, but really great when you do find it. That kind of -228 +251 00:13:01,845 --> 00:13:04,860 like -229 +252 00:13:04,889 --> 00:13:07,470 you touched on some of the things I wanted to get started -230 -00:13:07,470 --> 00:13:13,470 -with, too. It's like the, you're -doing a lot of things, right? +253 +00:13:07,470 --> 00:13:10,470 +with, too. It's like the-- +you're doing a lot of things, -231 +254 +00:13:10,470 --> 00:13:13,470 +right? + +255 00:13:13,470 --> 00:13:16,649 You are an independent contractor, you're a podcaster, -232 +256 00:13:16,649 --> 00:13:21,149 -you're building this, this tool. +you're building this- this tool. You're a career changer, you're -233 +257 00:13:21,149 --> 00:13:25,710 a mom, like, first of all, that's amazing. Second of all, -234 +258 00:13:25,740 --> 00:13:29,580 how do you stay motivated to do all of these things? -235 +259 00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:35,610 -Colleen Schnettler: Uh, I don't -know. Honestly, I don't know if +Colleen: I don't know. Honestly, +I don't know if -236 +260 00:13:35,610 --> 00:13:38,940 I'm doing the right thing. Like, I wonder about it all the time. -237 +261 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,450 A different community I'm in, which is has been great as a -238 +262 00:13:42,450 --> 00:13:45,809 group of consultants. And we -talked about this a lot, because +talked about this a lot because -239 +263 00:13:45,809 --> 00:13:49,200 there's a lot of consultants who have moved to full time -240 +264 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,330 employment, because I'm sure you guys have had this experience as -241 +265 00:13:51,330 --> 00:13:53,759 -well, like you contract for +well. Like, you contract for someone, and then they offer you -242 -00:13:53,759 --> 00:13:57,929 +266 +00:13:53,759 --> 00:13:55,844 a job. And every time, I'm like, -do I want to take it or not want +"Do I want to take it, or not -243 +267 +00:13:55,844 --> 00:13:57,929 +want + +268 00:13:57,929 --> 00:14:01,019 -to take it like it just seems so -comfortable to have a regular +to take it?" Like, it just seems +so comfortable to have a regular -244 -00:14:01,019 --> 00:14:06,480 -job, and then I'm like, oh, but -flexibility. And so I, you know, +269 +00:14:01,019 --> 00:14:03,749 +job. And then, I'm like, "Oh, +but flexibility." And so I, you -245 +270 +00:14:03,749 --> 00:14:06,479 +know, + +271 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:11,009 I do question these decisions. I think about a year ago, I really -246 +272 00:14:11,009 --> 00:14:15,330 got focused on trying to figure -out what I wanted, like long +out what I wanted, like, long -247 +273 00:14:15,330 --> 00:14:19,110 -term. What do I want? Not what -do I want next year, but like +term. "What do I want?" Not what +do I want next year, but, like, -248 +274 00:14:19,139 --> 00:14:23,429 -what do I want for the rest of -my life as a career. And when I +"what do I want for the rest of +my life as a career?" And when I -249 +275 00:14:23,429 --> 00:14:28,440 go back to wanting that flexible remote work, the real reason I -250 +276 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,220 started coding, flexible, remote -work, obviously, but I've always +work, obviously. But I've always -251 +277 00:14:32,220 --> 00:14:34,740 -wanted my own business. Like +wanted my own business. Like, I've always wanted to be -252 +278 00:14:34,740 --> 00:14:39,570 -completely independent. So the, +completely independent. So the-- starting a product is really -253 +279 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,809 -hard because it's slow and you -don't know what you're doing and +hard because it's slow, and you +don't know what you're doing, -254 +280 00:14:42,809 --> 00:14:46,379 -like, it's just a whole thing -(laugh). So I have one... +and, like, it's just a whole +thing [laughs]. So I have one-- -255 +281 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:47,529 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: So you have -a podcast on it. +Bekah: So you have a podcast on +it. -256 +282 00:14:48,289 --> 00:14:49,639 -Colleen Schnettler: Literally, -the reason we started the +Colleen: Literally, the reason +we started the -257 +283 00:14:49,639 --> 00:14:52,804 podcast was so I would not quit. -Like (laugh), that's the only +Like [laughs], that's the only -258 +284 00:14:52,804 --> 00:14:55,969 reason. But that's always been my -259 +285 00:14:55,970 --> 00:14:59,960 goal and I know why I want that. And once I was able to really -260 +286 00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:04,460 define for myself what my goal was, it made staying -261 +287 00:15:04,460 --> 00:15:08,899 motivated so much easier. -Because before my goal was kind +Because before, my goal was kind -262 +288 00:15:08,899 --> 00:15:11,990 -of nebulous, it was like, oh, I +of nebulous. It was like, "Oh, I just want to work flexibly and -263 +289 00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:15,860 -remote. Okay. And then it was -like, oh, I just want to, you +remote." Okay. And then, it was +like, "Oh, I just want to," you -264 -00:15:15,860 --> 00:15:21,110 -know, make money. And something -Saron Yitbarek, the founder of +290 +00:15:15,860 --> 00:15:18,485 +know, "make money." And +something Saron Yitbarek—the -265 +291 +00:15:18,485 --> 00:15:21,110 +founder of + +292 00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:27,350 -CodeNewbie, said to me once was -what are you optimizing for? And +CodeNewbie—said to me once was, +"What are you optimizing for?" -266 +293 00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:29,690 -that's my favorite question. -Because like, long term, this is +And that's my favorite question. +Because, like, long term, this -267 +294 00:15:29,690 --> 00:15:33,919 -our life. So what are you +is our life. So, what are you optimizing for? So I know that -268 +295 00:15:33,919 --> 00:15:36,379 my goal is to get a product off the ground. I know the only way -269 +296 00:15:36,379 --> 00:15:40,129 to get a product off the ground is to do all these things. I -270 -00:15:40,129 --> 00:15:41,224 -mean, obviously it'll be great +297 +00:15:40,129 --> 00:15:42,319 +mean, obviously, it'll be great if my product made enough money, -271 -00:15:41,224 --> 00:15:42,319 -I - -272 -00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:43,835 -didn't have to consult. But -that's like many years off. So - -273 -00:15:43,835 --> 00:15:45,350 -(laugh), you know, +298 +00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,350 +I didn't have to consult. But +that's, like, many years off. So -274 -00:15:46,669 --> 00:15:48,740 -just trying to get through it. +299 +00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:48,740 +[laughs], you know, just trying +to get through it. -275 +300 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,470 -Dan Ott: That, that idea of +Dan: That- that idea of optimizing, thinking about -276 +301 00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:59,090 -things in that, in that -framework, is something that I +things in that- in that +framework is something that I -277 +302 00:15:59,090 --> 00:16:02,539 came across, I don't know, a while ago. But it helped me the -278 +303 00:16:02,539 --> 00:16:07,100 same way. I've been independent for a long time. And there have -279 +304 00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:08,030 -been times, there have been +been times- there have been times where I've considered -280 +305 00:16:08,030 --> 00:16:08,960 either -281 +306 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,200 applying or taking jobs. And it's the same thing. I'm not -282 +307 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,700 -optimized for making money. You +optimized for making money, you know, like, for instance, right? -283 +308 00:16:16,700 --> 00:16:19,730 -That is not my main, I need to +That is not my main-- I need to make money, like, I need to -284 +309 00:16:19,730 --> 00:16:23,539 support my family, you know? Or help, you know, help support my -285 +310 00:16:23,539 --> 00:16:27,769 -family, and I need to pay bills, -and things like that. But, but +family. And I need to pay bills, +and things like that. But- but -286 +311 00:16:27,769 --> 00:16:31,039 -the, the main thing I'm -optimizing for, is that making +the- the main thing I'm +optimizing for is that-- making -287 +312 00:16:31,039 --> 00:16:34,340 money, right? Otherwise, there's other decisions, you know, I -288 +313 00:16:34,340 --> 00:16:36,439 could have made, right? And -there was, there came a time in +there was-- there came a time in -289 +314 00:16:36,439 --> 00:16:38,538 -my, I +my-- I -290 +315 00:16:38,539 --> 00:16:41,600 -think, in my mid-, late 20s, or +think, in my mid- late 20s or something where I had one of -291 -00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,269 -those, what am I doing with my -life, you know? What am I doing +316 +00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:42,934 +those, "What am I doing with my +life," you know? "What am I -292 +317 +00:16:42,934 --> 00:16:44,268 +doing + +318 00:16:44,269 --> 00:16:48,320 -with my career moments? And I -think that, that question helped +with my career moments?" And I +think that- that question helped -293 +319 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,519 me a lot to help me become comfortable with staying -294 +320 00:16:52,519 --> 00:16:55,759 independent, you know, keeping -the flexibility. I like, the +the flexibility. I like the -295 -00:16:55,759 --> 00:17:01,700 -flexibility and the, you know, -both in, in time and allow me to +321 +00:16:55,759 --> 00:16:58,729 +flexibility and the-- you know, +both in- in time, and allow me -296 +322 +00:16:58,729 --> 00:17:01,699 +to + +323 00:17:01,700 --> 00:17:04,159 -follow my nose, sort of (laugh)? -Sort of a strange phrase, but +follow my nose. Sort of +[laughs]- sort of a strange -297 +324 00:17:04,159 --> 00:17:06,618 -like, you +phrase, but, like, you -298 +325 00:17:06,619 --> 00:17:13,700 -know... Uh, I lost track of what -I was saying, the, what are you +know-- I lost track of what I +was saying. The-- what are you -299 +326 00:17:13,700 --> 00:17:15,980 optimizing for is a great question to ask yourself -300 +327 00:17:15,980 --> 00:17:20,329 -though, in pretty much any, any +though, in pretty much any- any decision you're trying to make. -301 +328 00:17:20,450 --> 00:17:22,130 I think it's a great way to think about it. -302 +329 00:17:23,289 --> 00:17:24,910 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: So that's -where I'm going to be the rest +Bekah: So, that's where I'm +going to be the rest -303 +330 00:17:24,910 --> 00:17:26,724 -of the day trying to figure out -what I'm optimizing for (laugh). +of the day. Trying to figure out +what I'm optimizing for -304 +331 00:17:26,724 --> 00:17:28,538 -Like, what am +[laughs]. Like, "What am I -305 +332 00:17:28,539 --> 00:17:35,529 -I doing? Can we even do the rest +doing?" Can we even do the rest of the podcast now? The other -306 +333 00:17:35,529 --> 00:17:38,769 thing, too, about being -independent is it allows you to +independent is, it allows you to -307 +334 00:17:38,769 --> 00:17:42,400 -avoid some, so many workplace +avoid some-- so many workplace challenges, right? Like, I don't -308 +335 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,630 know, I don't really like playing politics in the office. -309 +336 00:17:46,630 --> 00:17:50,380 That's been a challenge for me in past jobs. And it's been nice -310 +337 00:17:50,380 --> 00:17:54,250 to not have to deal with that -kind of stuff. So have you found +kind of stuff. So, have you -311 +338 00:17:54,250 --> 00:17:56,440 -that as a perk? +found that as a perk? -312 +339 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:58,880 -Colleen Schnettler: Oh, yeah, I -have so much to say about this. +Colleen: Oh, yeah. I have so +much to say about this. -313 +340 00:17:58,910 --> 00:18:02,509 -Okay. I promise I won't (laugh), -I won't go too long. +Okay. I promise I won't +[laughs]- I won't go too long. -314 -00:18:02,509 --> 00:18:05,509 -But, so when I was young, so I'm -at a college, you know, I'm the +341 +00:18:02,509 --> 00:18:04,009 +But-- so, when I was young-- so, +I'm at a college, you know? I'm -315 +342 +00:18:04,009 --> 00:18:05,509 +the + +343 00:18:05,509 --> 00:18:10,609 only woman working at this -company, I learned quickly that +company. I learned quickly that -316 +344 00:18:10,730 --> 00:18:12,289 -at, at any big business, this -was a fortune 500 company, so a +at- at any big business—this was +a fortune 500 company—so a -317 +345 00:18:12,289 --> 00:18:13,848 big -318 +346 00:18:13,849 --> 00:18:16,609 business. There are people who get the good work, and people -319 +347 00:18:16,609 --> 00:18:19,849 who get the crappy work. And the people who get the good work are -320 +348 00:18:19,849 --> 00:18:21,379 typically the people who are in the in-crowd, right? There's -321 +349 00:18:21,379 --> 00:18:22,909 -all, +all- -322 +350 00:18:22,940 --> 00:18:25,309 -there's all this, like the +there's all this, like, the in-crowd of the smart people, -323 +351 00:18:25,519 --> 00:18:29,359 and then the hanger-oners. So I quickly learned, like, the way -324 +352 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:34,460 to get into the in-crowd is to be liked. And this ended up -325 +353 00:18:34,460 --> 00:18:38,720 -serving me poorly for like the +serving me poorly for, like, the next 10 years. Because somehow -326 +354 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:43,160 throughout my career, I learned, -okay, so my goal is to get in +"Okay. So my goal is to get in -327 +355 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,190 the in-crowd, so I get the good -work. But there was a lot of +work." But there was a lot of -328 +356 00:18:46,190 --> 00:18:49,970 other weirdness that came with that being the only woman on my -329 +357 00:18:49,970 --> 00:18:54,920 team. Just a lot of weird, you know, uncomfortable things that -330 +358 00:18:54,920 --> 00:19:00,109 came with that. Trying to always -be nice. And trying to laugh at +be nice. And trying to laugh at, -331 +359 00:19:00,109 --> 00:19:02,359 -like the microaggression. I +like, the microaggression. I didn't even know those were -332 +360 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,029 microaggressions. I don't think we had a word for it 15 years -333 +361 00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:08,599 -ago. But like, just so much of +ago. But, like, just so much of that. And what I didn't -334 +362 00:19:08,599 --> 00:19:11,089 realize while I was going -through this, like playing work +through this, like, playing work -335 +363 00:19:11,089 --> 00:19:14,180 politics, trying to be like, laughing at the jokes that, you -336 +364 00:19:14,180 --> 00:19:17,180 know, about some woman who got -promoted, cuz she was a woman. +promoted cuz she was a woman. -337 +365 00:19:17,539 --> 00:19:20,509 Like, what I didn't realize is -that was slowly chipping away at +that was slowly chipping away -338 +366 00:19:20,509 --> 00:19:25,549 -like my self-worth. And I -didn't, I didn't even realize +at, like, my self-worth. And I +didn't- I didn't even realize -339 +367 00:19:25,549 --> 00:19:28,430 -that until, until now. Like, -looking back like 15 years +that until- until now. Like, +looking back, like, 15 years -340 +368 00:19:28,430 --> 00:19:30,649 -later, right? And so I really +later, right? And so, I really think I hate office politics -341 +369 00:19:30,649 --> 00:19:32,868 -(laugh). +[laughs]. -342 +370 00:19:33,380 --> 00:19:34,849 -I mean like, so I'm out. Like, +I mean, like, so I'm out. Like, I'm not doing that anymore. If I -343 +371 00:19:34,849 --> 00:19:36,318 went -344 +372 00:19:36,319 --> 00:19:39,470 back to a job, like, I would never put up with that now, -345 +373 00:19:39,500 --> 00:19:42,529 right? Like, I would never laugh at those jokes. I would never, -346 +374 00:19:42,710 --> 00:19:45,935 -like, take, not respond to some -of the ways I was treated. Now, +like, take-- not respond to some +of the ways I was treated now, -347 +375 00:19:45,935 --> 00:19:49,160 you -348 +376 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:53,930 -know, in my late 30s, but in my -20s I just didn't know. So +know, in my late 30s. But in my +20s, I just didn't know. So -349 -00:19:53,930 --> 00:19:59,059 -this combination of like office -politics and gender politics is +377 +00:19:53,930 --> 00:19:56,494 +this combination of, like, +office politics and gender -350 +378 +00:19:56,494 --> 00:19:59,058 +politics is + +379 00:19:59,059 --> 00:20:01,910 -like oh, it was awful. And I +like-- oh, it was awful. And I hope it's better. But I think -351 +380 00:20:01,910 --> 00:20:06,890 it probably depends on where you work, you know, in terms of how -352 +381 00:20:06,890 --> 00:20:08,059 that how that goes. -353 -00:20:08,990 --> 00:20:11,570 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Oh, for -sure (laugh). Got so much to say - -354 -00:20:11,570 --> 00:20:14,150 -about +382 +00:20:08,990 --> 00:20:14,150 +Bekah: Oh, for sure [laughs]. +Got so much to say about -355 +383 00:20:14,150 --> 00:20:15,589 that too. But that is, you know, that's super frustrating, and -356 +384 00:20:15,589 --> 00:20:17,028 -too, +too-- -357 +385 00:20:17,299 --> 00:20:20,450 you're younger coming into this -industry as well. And I know +industry as well. And I know, -358 +386 00:20:20,450 --> 00:20:24,289 like, that was also an issue. Being a young woman in an -359 +387 00:20:24,289 --> 00:20:27,799 industry, it can be really challenging. I don't know how -360 +388 00:20:27,799 --> 00:20:31,430 many times I got comments that were super inappropriate. You -361 +389 00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:35,900 wouldn't say to a man in that same situation. But I always had -362 +390 00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:40,309 to deal with, you know, me being young and me being a woman. And -363 +391 00:20:40,339 --> 00:20:44,630 -that was just, for a long time -it was well, that's just the +that was just—for a long time—it +was-- well, that's just the -364 +392 00:20:44,630 --> 00:20:48,829 -way things are so you do kind of -laugh it off or whatever. But +way things are, so you do kind +of laugh it off or whatever. But -365 +393 00:20:49,009 --> 00:20:52,549 -now, yeah, there's, there's no +now-- yeah. There's- there's no way that I stand for that now. -366 +394 00:20:53,390 --> 00:20:57,859 But also, I've been through enough situations where I feel -367 +395 00:20:57,859 --> 00:21:03,559 -like, you know what? I don't +like, "You know what? I don't care what happens if I respond -368 +396 00:21:03,559 --> 00:21:05,689 to this strongly because I'm -done. And it, and it doesn't +done. And it- and it doesn't -369 +397 00:21:05,689 --> 00:21:07,819 -matter. +matter." -370 +398 00:21:07,819 --> 00:21:10,084 -But certainly 10 years ago, -that's, I was not nearly in this +But certainly, 10 years ago, +that's-- I was not nearly in -371 +399 00:21:10,084 --> 00:21:12,349 -place. +this place. -372 +400 00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:15,380 -Colleen Schnettler: Yeah. +Colleen: Yeah. -373 +401 00:21:16,609 --> 00:21:19,670 -Dan Ott: Yeah. That, the, the +Dan: Yeah. That-- the- the question of, like, how to -374 +402 00:21:19,670 --> 00:21:23,569 respond with things like that, what I was gonna say was the -375 -00:21:24,259 --> 00:21:28,369 -advice, like, if you have advice -for somebody who is young, new +403 +00:21:24,259 --> 00:21:26,314 +advice-- like, if you have +advice for somebody who is -376 -00:21:28,369 --> 00:21:31,700 -career and can't afford to maybe -burn bridges, not burn bridges, +404 +00:21:26,314 --> 00:21:28,369 +young, new -377 +405 +00:21:28,369 --> 00:21:30,034 +career, and can't afford to, +maybe burn bridges-- not burn + +406 +00:21:30,034 --> 00:21:31,699 +bridges, + +407 00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:35,059 but can't afford to just quit their job, right? Because -378 -00:21:35,059 --> 00:21:38,509 +408 +00:21:35,059 --> 00:21:36,784 they're supporting their family -or their, you know, the only one +or their-- you know, the only -379 +409 +00:21:36,784 --> 00:21:38,509 +one + +410 00:21:38,509 --> 00:21:40,309 making money, you know, with their family and stuff like -380 +411 00:21:40,309 --> 00:21:45,440 -that, like, what... How do you, +that. Like, what-- how do you-- how would you try to give your -381 +412 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,075 past selves advice, I guess, -maybe in this, in this +maybe in this- in this -382 +413 00:21:47,075 --> 00:21:48,710 situation? -383 +414 00:21:48,740 --> 00:21:51,920 Or how would you give somebody -who is coming out of college, +who is coming out of college -384 +415 00:21:52,519 --> 00:21:55,400 and joining the industry here, or coming out of high school -385 +416 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,549 even, you know, as a young -woman, like entering this? And +woman, like, entering this? And -386 +417 00:21:58,549 --> 00:22:00,574 -if they have these... If they -end up having experiences like +if they have these-- if they end +up having experiences like -387 +418 00:22:00,574 --> 00:22:02,599 this, -388 +419 00:22:02,630 --> 00:22:04,280 -you know, because I'm sure that -plenty of women still are, I +you know? Because I'm sure that +plenty of women still are-- I -389 +420 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:05,930 know -390 +421 00:22:05,930 --> 00:22:08,900 -that plenty of women still are, -what would you tell, like, what +that plenty of women still are. +What would you tell-- like, what -391 +422 00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:10,940 -would be your advice to, to +would be your advice to- to somebody who's found themselves -392 +423 00:22:10,940 --> 00:22:16,970 in a situation like that, as a -young, as a young developer? If +young- as a young developer? If -393 +424 00:22:16,970 --> 00:22:17,359 -anything (laugh). +anything [laughs]. -394 +425 00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:20,630 -Colleen Schnettler: I don't -really know, honestly. Which is +Colleen: I don't really know, +honestly. Which is -395 -00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:25,730 +426 +00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:23,180 terrible. Like, you know, I just -feel like, my thoughts are, if I +feel like-- my thoughts are, if -396 +427 +00:22:23,180 --> 00:22:25,730 +I + +428 00:22:25,730 --> 00:22:27,455 could go back and talk to -myself, right? It's like, you +myself, right? It's, like, you -397 +429 00:22:27,455 --> 00:22:29,180 think -398 -00:22:29,180 --> 00:22:32,359 -it's okay, like you think these -are small, but like these, these +430 +00:22:29,180 --> 00:22:30,769 +it's okay. Like, you think these +are small. But, like, these- -399 +431 +00:22:30,769 --> 00:22:32,358 +these + +432 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,630 -microaggressions, like they +microaggressions, like, they compound, and they will impact -400 +433 00:22:35,630 --> 00:22:39,680 you long term so much more than you can realize now at 22/23 -401 +434 00:22:39,710 --> 00:22:43,609 years old. So, you know, you're not going to get fired for -402 -00:22:43,609 --> 00:22:46,730 +435 +00:22:43,609 --> 00:22:45,169 standing up to that person. It -could end, I mean, it could not, +could end-- I mean, it could -403 +436 +00:22:45,169 --> 00:22:46,729 +not-- + +437 00:22:46,789 --> 00:22:51,859 it might not end great for you. I ended up in one job with a -404 +438 00:22:51,859 --> 00:22:55,819 company I won't name. I complained about my mentor, -405 +439 00:22:56,269 --> 00:23:00,589 mentor who was treating me poorly. And I got reassigned, -406 +440 00:23:00,589 --> 00:23:03,049 and he got promoted. Like, it -was terrible (laugh). So, you +was terrible [laughs]. So, you -407 +441 00:23:03,049 --> 00:23:05,509 know, when I -408 +442 00:23:05,509 --> 00:23:09,829 finally stood up for myself, that's what happened. And so -409 +443 00:23:09,829 --> 00:23:13,609 that obviously left a terrible -taste in my mouth. But I would, +taste in my mouth. But I would- -410 +444 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,250 -I would also say that like you +I would also say that, like, you think it's okay to let them go, -411 +445 00:23:16,250 --> 00:23:19,430 -don't, don't let it go. Because -it's gonna compound and it's +don't- don't let it go. Because +it's gonna compound, and it's -412 +446 00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:22,549 -gonna come back to bite you and +gonna come back to bite you, and you're not gonna get fired. -413 +447 00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:24,440 -Like, you might have something -like happen to me where you +Like, you might have something, +like, happen to me where you -414 +448 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,369 might get reassigned. Look for a -new job, like, keep looking, +new job. Like, keep looking, -415 +449 00:23:28,369 --> 00:23:33,500 -like, don't give up. And just, +like, don't give up. And just- just fight back because that BS -416 +450 00:23:33,500 --> 00:23:36,680 -is exhausting. And it will just, -it will just eat it you over +is exhausting. And it will just- +it will just eat it-- you over -417 +451 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:37,039 time. -418 +452 00:23:38,349 --> 00:23:40,839 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, for -sure. I would, I totally agree +Bekah: Yeah, for sure. I would-- +I totally agree -419 +453 00:23:40,839 --> 00:23:43,809 with that. And I think that, you know, that look for a new job -420 +454 00:23:43,809 --> 00:23:45,249 thing is super important. -Because I know people that, +Because I know people that-- -421 +455 00:23:45,249 --> 00:23:46,689 well, -422 +456 00:23:46,690 --> 00:23:49,750 it wasn't that big of a deal, or these other things about this -423 +457 00:23:49,750 --> 00:23:53,049 company are good, or it's hard -to find work. But like, the +to find work. But, like, the -424 +458 00:23:53,049 --> 00:23:56,049 minute that something like that happens, and if you reported to -425 +459 00:23:56,049 --> 00:23:59,349 HR to a supervisor, and they blow you off, then you know what -426 +460 00:23:59,349 --> 00:24:02,650 kind of company you're working for, right? It's not just one -427 -00:24:02,650 --> 00:24:05,740 +461 +00:24:02,650 --> 00:24:04,195 thing. This is a company -culture. And so it is definitely +culture. And so, it is -428 +462 +00:24:04,195 --> 00:24:05,740 +definitely + +463 00:24:05,740 --> 00:24:09,579 time to start looking for -something new. And I don't, I +something new. And I don't-- I -429 +464 00:24:09,579 --> 00:24:15,670 think I have a couple of -thoughts too. But, um, one is +thoughts, too. But one is, -430 +465 00:24:15,700 --> 00:24:21,819 having somebody who is an ally or a support person at your -431 +466 00:24:21,819 --> 00:24:27,309 company can be really useful. So, you know, I was on this -432 +467 00:24:27,309 --> 00:24:32,170 -committee and I, every time I +committee, and I-- every time I spoke, I was interrupted by one -433 +468 00:24:32,170 --> 00:24:37,569 of the older men in the meeting. It was frequently happened. And -434 -00:24:37,569 --> 00:24:40,690 +469 +00:24:37,569 --> 00:24:39,129 I didn't even realize that it -was happening. And then somebody +was happening. And then, -435 +470 +00:24:39,129 --> 00:24:40,689 +somebody + +471 00:24:40,690 --> 00:24:43,690 else pointed out to me that, -hey, he doesn't interrupt any +"Hey, he doesn't interrupt any -436 +472 00:24:43,690 --> 00:24:46,119 of the men when they speak. He only interrupts you and the -437 -00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:52,720 -other women. And having the, the -man who pointed this out to me, +473 +00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,419 +other women." And having the- +the man who pointed this out to -438 +474 +00:24:49,419 --> 00:24:52,719 +me + +475 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,950 -say something. Then it was +say something, then it was recognized, right? And it's a -439 +476 00:24:56,950 --> 00:25:00,430 shame. It should not have to happen that way. But definitely -440 -00:25:00,430 --> 00:25:05,380 -having like allies who can stand -up for you and say, like, let's +477 +00:25:00,430 --> 00:25:02,905 +having, like, allies who can +stand up for you and say, like, -441 +478 +00:25:02,905 --> 00:25:05,380 +"Let's + +479 00:25:05,380 --> 00:25:09,910 -not do this is really, really +not do this," is really, really important too. -442 +480 00:25:10,869 --> 00:25:13,900 -Dan Ott: So you have been... I'm +Dan: So you have been ... I'm sorry. Can you remind me how -443 +481 00:25:13,900 --> 00:25:16,119 -long you've been, you've been -independent now for... +long you've been-- you've been +independent now for-- -444 +482 00:25:16,299 --> 00:25:16,960 -Colleen Schnettler: Four years. +Colleen: Four years. -445 +483 00:25:16,990 --> 00:25:21,250 -Dan Ott: Four years now? Have -you run into any, like similar +Dan: Four years now? Have you +run into any, like, similar -446 +484 00:25:21,250 --> 00:25:25,779 issues since you've been -independent? Or... - -447 -00:25:26,259 --> 00:25:27,324 -Colleen Schnettler: Nope. So, -one thing I have to say... That +independent? Or-- -448 -00:25:27,324 --> 00:25:28,389 -is +485 +00:25:26,259 --> 00:25:28,389 +Colleen: Nope. So, one thing I +have to say ... that is -449 +486 00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:33,069 -awesome, yeah. I have had no +awesome. Yeah. I have had no problems working for myself. I -450 +487 00:25:33,069 --> 00:25:36,490 -think it's a combination of a +think, it's a combination of a few things. I think, you know, -451 +488 00:25:36,940 --> 00:25:40,119 the world and the conversation is changing around this issue. -452 +489 00:25:41,079 --> 00:25:44,079 I'm in the Rails community. And I can't speak to the other -453 +490 00:25:44,079 --> 00:25:46,779 -communities, but like the Ruby +communities, but, like, the Ruby and the Rails community is -454 +491 00:25:46,809 --> 00:25:51,910 spectacular. Just the most inclusive, welcoming community. -455 +492 00:25:51,940 --> 00:25:55,690 I mean, I will never forget. I went to my first Rails meetup -456 +493 00:25:55,900 --> 00:25:59,529 several years ago. And the guy who was running the meetup is -457 +494 00:25:59,529 --> 00:26:04,269 like a super senior developer. And I was coming off of my -458 +495 00:26:04,299 --> 00:26:07,299 previous experience, so that story I told you about the guy -459 +496 00:26:07,299 --> 00:26:10,359 getting promoted and me getting reassigned, that's when I quit -460 +497 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:11,709 my job to stay home with my kids -(laugh). Cuz I was like, I'm +[laughs]. Cuz I was like, "I'm -461 +498 00:26:11,709 --> 00:26:13,059 done. -462 +499 00:26:13,089 --> 00:26:16,960 -I can't do this anymore. So I'm +I can't do this anymore." So I'm coming off of, you know, that -463 +500 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,539 -bad work experience, I was +bad work experience. I was coming off of being a stay at -464 +501 00:26:19,539 --> 00:26:22,509 -home mom, I was really like, +home mom. I was really, like, just struggling. I didn't know -465 +502 00:26:22,509 --> 00:26:28,029 what I was doing. Self teaching is hard. And I remember I met -466 -00:26:28,029 --> 00:26:30,609 -him and he's like, super senior, -like, kind of well known in the +503 +00:26:28,029 --> 00:26:29,319 +him, and he's, like, super +senior, like, kind of well known -467 +504 +00:26:29,319 --> 00:26:30,609 +in the + +505 00:26:30,609 --> 00:26:36,160 -community. And like, he treated +community. And, like, he treated me like an equal. And that -468 +506 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,359 hadn't happened to me in so long. And then people just kept -469 +507 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,819 doing that to me. Like, they just treated me like a human. -470 -00:26:42,819 --> 00:26:46,720 -And it was this, it was, it was -like, it was amazing. Like, it +508 +00:26:42,819 --> 00:26:44,769 +And it was this-- it was- it +was, like, it was amazing. Like, -471 +509 +00:26:44,769 --> 00:26:46,719 +it + +510 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,309 was just so amazing. And that community is amazing. And I -472 +511 00:26:51,309 --> 00:26:54,670 -think also being independent. -Like, I don't have to work on +think also being independent, +like, I don't have to work on -473 +512 00:26:54,670 --> 00:26:57,655 your team if I don't like you. -So (laugh) that's been really +So [laughs] that's been really -474 -00:26:57,655 --> 00:27:00,640 -great too. - -475 -00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:00,940 -So yeah. +513 +00:26:57,655 --> 00:27:00,940 +great too. So, yeah. -476 +514 00:27:02,079 --> 00:27:05,259 -Dan Ott: Yeah, just another, -another bonus for being +Dan: Yeah, just another- another +bonus for being -477 +515 00:27:05,259 --> 00:27:06,099 independent, right? -478 +516 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:07,599 -Colleen Schnettler: Yeah, you -have so much freedom. You can +Colleen Yeah. You have so much +freedom. You can -479 +517 00:27:07,599 --> 00:27:10,839 pick your clients, you can pick your teams. I mean, I've worked -480 +518 00:27:10,839 --> 00:27:15,940 on some spectacular teams. And it's because I have a lot of -481 +519 00:27:15,940 --> 00:27:18,940 choice. I can hire people or I can work with my friends who are -482 +520 00:27:18,940 --> 00:27:20,769 -hiring people, like it's a +hiring people, like, it's a win-win. -483 +521 00:27:22,130 --> 00:27:25,460 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, so -you mentioned Saron earlier, and +Bekah: Yeah. So, you mentioned +Saron earlier, and -484 -00:27:25,490 --> 00:27:27,874 -I had a tweet from her pulled -up, because she said - -485 -00:27:27,874 --> 00:27:30,258 -something... +522 +00:27:25,490 --> 00:27:30,258 +I had a tweet from her pulled up +because she said something-- -486 +523 00:27:30,259 --> 00:27:31,939 -She tweeted this recently on -February 1st, but she said, I +she tweeted this recently, on +February 1st. But she said, "I -487 +524 00:27:31,939 --> 00:27:33,619 was -488 +525 00:27:33,619 --> 00:27:35,900 -reflecting on my experience. I +reflecting on my experience." I shouldn't even read this aloud -489 +526 00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:38,210 because she's got such a great voice. And I hear it in my head, -490 +527 00:27:38,210 --> 00:27:39,605 and I'm gonna read it. Anyway -(laugh). I'm not gonna read them +[laughs]-- I'm not gonna read -491 +528 00:27:39,605 --> 00:27:41,000 -to +them to -492 +529 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,230 summarize. She was reflecting on her experience in tech and -493 +530 00:27:45,230 --> 00:27:48,980 saying how positive it's been, right? And she knows that -494 +531 00:27:48,980 --> 00:27:52,910 there's toxicity and problems -out there. And then she +out there. And then, she -495 +532 00:27:52,910 --> 00:27:55,910 -realized, I've spent most of my -career working for myself is +realized "I've spent most of my +career working for myself" is -496 +533 00:27:55,910 --> 00:28:00,589 -what she said. And I think it +what she said. And I think, it does make a huge difference. -497 +534 00:28:00,589 --> 00:28:05,900 -Because you, you don't have to -play those, those politics. You +Because you- you don't have to +play those- those politics. You -498 +535 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:12,380 have the ability to be flexible -and to change things. And, I +and to change things. And-- I -499 +536 00:28:12,380 --> 00:28:18,380 -don't know. I, I have this +don't know. I- I have this feeling when something is -500 -00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,039 +537 +00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,239 unfair or unjust at this point -in my life, I like to just like +in my life, I'd like to-- just, -501 +538 +00:28:20,239 --> 00:28:22,038 +like, + +539 00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:26,420 -yell about it really loud until +yell about it really loud until, like, somebody responds to me. -502 +540 00:28:26,450 --> 00:28:29,240 And I know people feel weird, -like, well, you shouldn't name +like, "Well, you shouldn't name -503 +541 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,190 -names or whatever, like... I -have the, I have the ability to +names," or whatever, like, I +have the- I have the ability to -504 +542 00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:33,140 name -505 +543 00:28:33,140 --> 00:28:35,420 -names. And, and I will, you -know? It's not, and I think that +names. And- and I will, you +know? It's not-- and I think -506 +544 00:28:35,420 --> 00:28:37,700 -also, +that -507 +545 00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:41,630 -you know, people who have that -ability and can do that +also, you know, people who have +that ability and can do that, -508 +546 00:28:41,660 --> 00:28:46,130 that's also really helpful for everybody else trying to, you -509 +547 00:28:46,130 --> 00:28:49,160 know, make their way and falling into these situations. -510 +548 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:50,240 -Colleen Schnettler: Yeah. +Colleen: Yeah. -511 +549 00:28:52,099 --> 00:28:54,170 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: So I think, -can we just jump back a little +Bekah: So, I think, can we just +jump back a little -512 +550 00:28:54,170 --> 00:29:00,650 -bit to your career? So you've +bit to your career? So, you've worked into male dominated -513 +551 00:29:01,250 --> 00:29:06,470 industries. And that's got to be a challenge. Like, did you think -514 +552 00:29:06,470 --> 00:29:10,519 -about that at all, when you were +about that at all when you were moving from engineering to tech? -515 +553 00:29:10,519 --> 00:29:13,910 -Like, oh well, I'm moving from +Like, "Oh, well. I'm moving from this industry, and maybe the -516 +554 00:29:13,910 --> 00:29:15,859 experience will be similar in -this other one? +this other one?" -517 +555 00:29:16,430 --> 00:29:19,460 -Colleen Schnettler: So there is -no other job where you can make +Colleen: So, there is no other +job where you can make -518 +556 00:29:19,460 --> 00:29:22,609 the kind of money we can make. I -mean, think of what we do, Guys. +mean, think of what we do, guys. -519 +557 00:29:22,849 --> 00:29:26,630 -We have paid like a kind of -absurd amount of money to like +We have paid, like, a kind of +absurd amount of money to, like, -520 +558 00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:30,230 work six hours a day in our home -office, you know? Like when you +office, you know? Like, when you -521 -00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:34,309 -hit this point, it is just like, -I cannot, I remember trying to +559 +00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:32,269 +hit this point, it is just, +like, I cannot-- I remember -522 +560 +00:29:32,269 --> 00:29:34,308 +trying to + +561 00:29:34,309 --> 00:29:36,199 -build... So I tried, I didn't -ever get a job. So I was +build-- so, I tried, I didn't +ever get a job. So, I was -523 +562 00:29:36,199 --> 00:29:38,089 self-taught. -524 -00:29:38,119 --> 00:29:40,700 +563 +00:29:38,119 --> 00:29:39,409 I applied for that Flatiron -scholarship like three years in +scholarship, like, three years -525 +564 +00:29:39,409 --> 00:29:40,699 +in + +565 00:29:40,700 --> 00:29:44,779 a row. I never got it. I still love you, Bekah. Even though you -526 +566 00:29:44,779 --> 00:29:45,980 got my scholarship, it's fine -(laugh). It worked out. +[laughs]. It worked out. -527 +567 00:29:47,869 --> 00:29:48,470 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Sorry -(laugh). +Bekah: Sorry [laughs]. -528 +568 00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:51,869 -Colleen Schnettler: I remember -when I was trying to get +Colleen: I remember when I was +trying to get -529 +569 00:29:51,869 --> 00:29:56,339 started, it was just so hard. And then I remember talking to -530 +570 00:29:56,339 --> 00:29:58,859 -people and they were like, you +people, and they were like, "You should get a job before you go -531 +571 00:29:58,859 --> 00:30:01,980 -independent. And they were +independent." And they were totally right. My advice would -532 +572 00:30:01,980 --> 00:30:05,670 be whether you're a bootcamp -student, or you are self-taught, +student or you are self-taught, -533 -00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:09,450 +573 +00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:07,575 your number one goal should be -to get like a real, a real job. +to get, like, a real- a real -534 +574 +00:30:07,575 --> 00:30:09,450 +job. + +575 00:30:09,450 --> 00:30:12,480 Get a full time job. Because that's how you're going to get -535 +576 00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:16,619 the growth and the mentorship. But I was never in a position to -536 +577 00:30:16,619 --> 00:30:19,589 do that. Like, my husband's gone all the time, I had three -537 +578 00:30:19,589 --> 00:30:23,339 -little kids, like I have to be, +little kids, like, I have to be- I have to be available. I didn't -538 +579 00:30:23,339 --> 00:30:28,650 have 40 hours a week to work. So -trying to like build, build this +trying to, like, build- build -539 +580 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,609 -business to where I am now, +this business to where I am now, like, was so hard. And if I look -540 +581 00:30:32,609 --> 00:30:35,789 -back to like five years ago, +back to, like, five years ago, like, I literally cannot even -541 +582 00:30:35,789 --> 00:30:40,289 imagine myself in this position. But despite it being a male -542 +583 00:30:40,289 --> 00:30:43,829 -dominated field and like it, you +dominated field and like it—you know, I like men just fine. -543 +584 00:30:43,829 --> 00:30:46,019 -Like, I don't mean to like hate -on men, I've just had some +Like, I don't mean to, like, +hate on men. I've just had some -544 +585 00:30:46,019 --> 00:30:51,869 really bad experiences. I mean, -our job is amazing. Like we, we +our job is amazing. Like, we- we -545 +586 00:30:51,869 --> 00:30:55,980 can work from home, we get paid -really well, we do things that +really well, we do things that, -546 +587 00:30:55,980 --> 00:30:58,080 -like, like impact the entire +like- like, impact the entire world. Like, not to sound -547 +588 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,180 cheesy, -548 +589 00:31:00,180 --> 00:31:03,269 -but like the internet runs the -world and we control the +but, like, the internet runs the +world, and we control the -549 +590 00:31:03,269 --> 00:31:05,834 -internet. It's amazing (laugh). -Oh my gosh, I showed like, so, +internet. It's amazing [laughs]. +Oh, my gosh. I showed, like-- -550 +591 00:31:05,834 --> 00:31:08,399 -my +so, my -551 +592 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,660 family is not at all excited about web development. I don't -552 +593 00:31:12,660 --> 00:31:17,700 -know why. But I showed, I showed +know why. But I showed- I showed them the other day, like, one of -553 +594 00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:22,289 -their, one of their friends was -having a problem with his like, +their- one of their friends was +having a problem with his, like, -554 +595 00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:25,440 e-commerce site or something. -And I like, I just pulled up a +And I, like-- I just pulled up a -555 -00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,769 -console and change the CSS, like -in the console so they could see +596 +00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,104 +console and change the CSS, +like, in the console so they -556 +597 +00:31:27,104 --> 00:31:28,768 +could see + +598 00:31:28,769 --> 00:31:30,314 it live. And they were just -like, oh my gosh, this is +like, "Oh, my gosh. This is -557 +599 00:31:30,314 --> 00:31:31,859 -amazing! (laugh) +amazing!" [Laughs] -558 +600 00:31:32,730 --> 00:31:33,869 -I was like, you're welcome. -Like, this is fun. (laugh) +I was like, "You're welcome." +Like, this is fun [laughs]. -559 +601 00:31:38,009 --> 00:31:39,869 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I felt like -I made it once when my dad +Bekah: I felt like I made it +once when my dad -560 +602 00:31:39,869 --> 00:31:43,529 -called me and he was like, is +called me and he was like, "Is this the expected behavior of -561 -00:31:43,529 --> 00:31:48,660 -this form? (laugh) That is not, -that should not be happening. +603 +00:31:43,529 --> 00:31:46,094 +this form?" [Laughs] That is +not-- that should not be -562 +604 +00:31:46,094 --> 00:31:48,659 +happening. + +605 00:31:51,299 --> 00:31:57,210 -It's validated. (laugh) Um, -yeah. Okay. So you have this +It's validated. [Laughs] Yeah. +Okay. So you have this -563 +606 00:31:53,849 --> 00:32:01,230 really long process that you've gone through. And it sounds like -564 +607 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,529 -you're, you're, you're happy +you're- you're- you're happy with where you are. But, you -565 +608 00:32:01,529 --> 00:32:05,818 know, is -566 +609 00:32:01,230 --> 00:32:07,410 it worth it for such a long process to get there? -567 +610 00:32:08,859 --> 00:32:10,359 -Colleen Schnettler: I just -wish... Okay. So my thoughts on +Colleen: I just wish-- okay. So, +my thoughts on -568 +611 00:32:10,359 --> 00:32:11,859 this, I -569 +612 00:32:11,859 --> 00:32:15,640 just wish the messaging was better on how to become a -570 +613 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,210 software developer. I think that I'm going through the same thing -571 +614 00:32:19,210 --> 00:32:22,660 now that I'm trying to start a -software business, like the +software business, like, the -572 +615 00:32:22,660 --> 00:32:26,529 messaging is just bad on the internet. And I feel like, five -573 +616 00:32:26,529 --> 00:32:29,890 -years ago, like it was the same +years ago, like, it was the same way when you're trying to learn -574 +617 00:32:29,890 --> 00:32:33,714 -to code. So yes. The answer, the -TL;DR is yes. It's 100% worth +to code. So, yes. The answer-- +the TL;DR is yes. It's 100% -575 +618 00:32:33,714 --> 00:32:37,538 -it. +worth it. -576 +619 00:32:37,839 --> 00:32:42,430 -But it is a slog. Like when you -are either working full time, or +But it is a slog. Like, when you +are either working full time or -577 +620 00:32:42,430 --> 00:32:45,250 whatever you're doing, like, especially if you have kids at -578 +621 00:32:45,250 --> 00:32:47,890 home, and of course, we're in a pandemic, so that makes it all -579 +622 00:32:47,890 --> 00:32:52,390 the more complicated, it's just a slog. I used to have this -580 +623 00:32:52,390 --> 00:32:55,539 process where while I was doing the dishes, I would listen to -581 +624 00:32:55,539 --> 00:32:59,049 -the CodeNewbie podcasts, like to -get me pumped to go work all +the CodeNewbie podcasts, like, +to get me pumped to go work all -582 +625 00:32:59,049 --> 00:33:04,329 night, right? To try to learn -something. And I, like I was +something. And I-- like, I was -583 +626 00:33:04,329 --> 00:33:07,750 trying to learn something. And, you know, I thought I was good -584 -00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:09,504 -enough. And then I tried to do +627 +00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:11,258 +enough. And then, I tried to do open source, and I realized that -585 -00:33:09,504 --> 00:33:11,258 -I - -586 +628 00:33:11,259 --> 00:33:14,529 -was not good enough. And you +I was not good enough. And, you know, what happened to me is I -587 +629 00:33:14,529 --> 00:33:18,579 -just like, there was this one -issue I could not sorted out +just, like, there was this one +issue I could not sorted out. -588 +630 00:33:18,609 --> 00:33:24,519 -and I probably just, just like -sat on it for like six months. +And I probably just- just, like, +sat on it for, like, six months. -589 +631 00:33:24,549 --> 00:33:27,069 -Like, I just stopped and like, -didn't, you know, it's open +Like, I just stopped, and, like, +didn't-- you know, it's open -590 +632 00:33:27,069 --> 00:33:31,119 source. No one's asking me. And this guy, like, who was one of -591 -00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:34,119 -the maintainers just all he did -was send me like an email. And +633 +00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:32,619 +the maintainers just-- all he +did was send me, like, an email. -592 +634 +00:33:32,619 --> 00:33:34,119 +And + +635 00:33:34,119 --> 00:33:37,059 -he was like, hey, do you need -some help on this issue? And +he was like, "Hey, do you need +some help on this issue?" And -593 +636 00:33:37,059 --> 00:33:39,459 that? That changed everything -for me. Like one person reach +for me. Like, one person reach -594 +637 00:33:39,459 --> 00:33:41,859 out, I -595 +638 00:33:41,859 --> 00:33:45,700 -would not have made it. Like I -was, I was out. Like one person +would not have made it. Like, I +was- I was out. Like, one person -596 +639 00:33:45,700 --> 00:33:49,960 reaching out, like, change the trajectory of my whole life. -597 +640 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,835 Like, it's so cool. So, I'm -ranting a little bit, (laugh) +ranting a little bit, [laughs] -598 +641 00:33:51,835 --> 00:33:53,710 but I -599 -00:33:53,710 --> 00:33:57,579 -guess my, what I'm trying to say -here is like, it's a slog. So +642 +00:33:53,710 --> 00:33:55,644 +guess my-- what I'm trying to +say here is, like, it's a slog. -600 +643 +00:33:55,644 --> 00:33:57,578 +So + +644 00:33:57,579 --> 00:34:00,430 -don't believe... There's so many +don't believe-- there's so many stories on the internet that are -601 +645 00:34:00,430 --> 00:34:03,970 -like, I learned to code in six +like, "I learned to code in six months, and now I make $130,000 -602 +646 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,079 -a year. No. Lies. It's lies. +a year." No. Lies. It's lies. Like, no. It's a slog. It takes -603 +647 00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:12,158 a long -604 +648 00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:17,829 time. But when you are on the other side, like, it's amazing. -605 +649 00:34:18,010 --> 00:34:21,610 -Because we are, we have, I can +Because we are-- we have-- I can work from home, I can back when -606 +650 00:34:21,610 --> 00:34:25,030 there was a bus, I could take my kids to the bus, like, I can -607 +651 00:34:25,030 --> 00:34:29,889 pick them up, like, I can do all those things. And, you know, -608 +652 00:34:29,980 --> 00:34:32,980 you're gonna make pretty good -money doing it. So absolutely +money doing it. So, absolutely -609 +653 00:34:32,980 --> 00:34:35,619 worth it. But be prepared for it to take years. -610 +654 00:34:37,449 --> 00:34:41,019 -Dan Ott: Yeah. Yeah, that's, I -mean, the, the self-taught path, +Dan: Yeah. Yeah, that's-- I +mean, the- the self-taught path, -611 +655 00:34:41,079 --> 00:34:42,894 -you know... That's always, the +you know ... that's always-- the one when I say to you, it's -612 +656 00:34:42,894 --> 00:34:44,709 really hard to -613 +657 00:34:44,710 --> 00:34:49,449 say, I think, out loud. It's nice to hear you say that. It is -614 +658 00:34:49,449 --> 00:34:52,269 hard. It's hard, no matter what path you're taking, and if -615 +659 00:34:52,269 --> 00:34:55,599 you're not doing it full time, like, you know, if you have kids -616 +660 00:34:55,599 --> 00:34:59,050 or another job you trying to change. It does. It takes a long -617 -00:34:59,050 --> 00:35:02,380 +661 +00:34:59,050 --> 00:35:00,715 time, but you'll get there and -then it's like, once you get to, +then it's, like, once you get -618 +662 +00:35:00,715 --> 00:35:02,380 +to-- + +663 00:35:03,159 --> 00:35:07,239 -I don't know, as I imagined the -time is different. But there's, +I don't know, as I imagined, the +time is different. But there's-- -619 +664 00:35:07,269 --> 00:35:11,920 I feel like one spot when you're -becoming a web, or a developer, +becoming a web-- or a developer, -620 +665 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,119 I guess, where everything else -becomes much easier. Like, it's +becomes much easier. Like-- it's -621 +666 00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:17,650 -like, there's this thought +like there's this thought process, you have to, like, -622 -00:35:17,739 --> 00:35:21,429 -change your brain to like, learn -how to code almost. And that's +667 +00:35:17,739 --> 00:35:19,584 +change your brain to, like, +learn how to code almost. And -623 +668 +00:35:19,584 --> 00:35:21,429 +that's, + +669 00:35:21,429 --> 00:35:23,860 -like, hard. And I think it's, it -doesn't really matter what +like, hard. And I think it's-- +it doesn't really matter what -624 +670 00:35:23,860 --> 00:35:29,980 -language you pick, or what, you -know, if it's web, or probably +language you pick or what, you +know? If it's web or probably -625 +671 00:35:29,980 --> 00:35:32,079 -the same for (laugh) not web -stuff, I don't know. I can't +the same for [laughs] not web +stuff-- I don't know. I can't -626 +672 00:35:32,079 --> 00:35:34,178 even think -627 +673 00:35:34,179 --> 00:35:35,799 -of, oh, C++. That was what I -learned C++ in college for a +of-- oh, C++. That was what I +learned, C++ in college for a -628 +674 00:35:35,799 --> 00:35:37,419 little bit -629 +675 00:35:37,449 --> 00:35:41,230 before I dropped out. But once we learn how to become a -630 -00:35:41,230 --> 00:35:46,420 -developer, you know, then maybe -I'm making this up. But I feel +676 +00:35:41,230 --> 00:35:43,825 +developer, you know, then-- +maybe I'm making this up, but I -631 +677 +00:35:43,825 --> 00:35:46,420 +feel + +678 00:35:46,420 --> 00:35:48,130 like everything else becomes -ease, like, it becomes easier +ease- like, it becomes easier -632 +679 00:35:48,130 --> 00:35:52,119 -to jump, like from different -languages, you know, the, +to jump, like, from different +languages, you know? The-- -633 +680 00:35:52,119 --> 00:35:54,940 -if you're moving, you know, if +if you're moving-- you know, if you're moving from -634 -00:35:54,940 --> 00:35:57,969 +681 +00:35:54,940 --> 00:35:56,454 JavaScript to Ruby, you know, -that there's going to be like, a +that-- there's going to be, -635 +682 +00:35:56,454 --> 00:35:57,968 +like, + +683 00:35:57,969 --> 00:35:59,334 -bunch of differences, you'll be -confused for a second, for a +a bunch of differences. You'll +be confused for a second, for a -636 +684 00:35:59,334 --> 00:36:00,699 -little bit. But +little bit. But, -637 +685 00:36:00,699 --> 00:36:03,070 -like, it'll, it'll click a lot +like, it'll- it'll click a lot faster, you know? You'll ask the -638 -00:36:03,070 --> 00:36:05,619 -right questions, you like, okay, -I know how to do this. And, you +686 +00:36:03,070 --> 00:36:04,344 +right questions, you like, +"Okay, I know how to do this." -639 +687 +00:36:04,344 --> 00:36:05,618 +And, you + +688 00:36:05,619 --> 00:36:07,014 -know, I know how I would do +know, "I know how I would do this. But that approach doesn't -640 +689 00:36:07,014 --> 00:36:08,409 seem to -641 +690 00:36:08,409 --> 00:36:11,349 -work, you know, in Rails. So -here's, you know, okay, well, I +work," you know, "in Rails." "So +here's--" you know, "Okay, well, -642 +691 00:36:11,349 --> 00:36:13,300 -can Google for that. And -probably there'll be an answer, +I can Google for that. And +probably there'll be an answer," -643 +692 00:36:13,329 --> 00:36:17,380 -you know, like, that kind of -thing. The, the hard part, +you know? Like, that kind of +thing. The- the hard part, -644 +693 00:36:17,380 --> 00:36:19,705 -the beginning is just like, I -don't know, re-, I don't know, +the beginning is just, like-- I +don't know. Re- I don't know-- -645 +694 00:36:19,705 --> 00:36:22,030 resetting -646 +695 00:36:22,030 --> 00:36:25,119 all the, you know, the paths in your brain, you know? I feel -647 +696 00:36:25,119 --> 00:36:25,449 -like... +like-- -648 +697 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,539 -Colleen Schnettler: Yeah, and I -think once we've come through +Colleen: Yeah. And I think, once +we've come through -649 +698 00:36:27,539 --> 00:36:31,019 it, it's hard to remember how hard it was. Like, now, -650 +699 00:36:31,050 --> 00:36:33,599 -it's like, like you said, Dan, -like taking on a new language. +it's, like- like you said, Dan. +Like, taking on a new language, -651 +700 00:36:33,599 --> 00:36:35,610 -Yeah, it's kind of hard. And -it's like, I gotta learn all +yeah, it's kind of hard. And +it's, like, I gotta learn all -652 +701 00:36:35,610 --> 00:36:38,670 this new stuff. But you mostly get it, right? Like, you can -653 +702 00:36:38,670 --> 00:36:41,489 -mostly make it work. But like, I -think it's, it's hard to +mostly make it work. But, like, +I think it's- it's hard to -654 -00:36:41,489 --> 00:36:45,420 -remember, like, it's really hard -when you start. Like, with no +703 +00:36:41,489 --> 00:36:43,454 +remember, like-- it's really +hard when you start. Like, with -655 +704 +00:36:43,454 --> 00:36:45,419 +no + +705 00:36:45,420 --> 00:36:47,250 context, like, it's really hard. -656 +706 00:36:47,699 --> 00:36:54,719 -Dan Ott: Yeah. No, I totally get -it. It was... Sorry (laugh), I - -657 -00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,054 -was just gonna say that, that -was something that, um, +Dan: Yeah. No, I totally get it. +It was-- sorry [laughs], I -658 -00:36:56,054 --> 00:36:57,389 -actually, +707 +00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,389 +was just gonna say that that was +something that, actually, -659 +708 00:36:57,630 --> 00:37:00,989 Virtual Coffee helped me -remember or realize, you know, +remember or realize, you know? -660 +709 00:37:00,989 --> 00:37:03,659 -because it had been a long time +Because it had been a long time since I was there. But I do. I -661 +710 00:37:03,659 --> 00:37:07,050 -mean, I, I remember struggling +mean, I- I remember struggling and having no idea, you know, -662 +711 00:37:07,289 --> 00:37:10,710 what I was doing. But it is. It's hard. Like, the kind of -663 +712 00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:12,989 questions you ask are much different when you're -664 +713 00:37:13,170 --> 00:37:17,820 -starting out, versus one year, -whatever, a year or two under, +starting out, versus one year +whatever-- a year or two under, -665 +714 00:37:17,849 --> 00:37:23,610 -you know, under your, under your +you know, under your- under your belt. And hanging out with a lot -666 +715 00:37:23,610 --> 00:37:25,800 of people who are learning for -the first time is, is +the first time is- is -667 +716 00:37:25,829 --> 00:37:28,110 instructive, you know, and cool to see. -668 +717 00:37:29,429 --> 00:37:31,949 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, I -don't know if this, if this +Bekah: Yeah, I don't know if +this- if this -669 +718 00:37:32,010 --> 00:37:36,960 -tracks, because I'm not really a -musician, but we see a lot of +tracks—because I'm not really a +musician—but we see a lot of -670 +719 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,489 musicians moving into tech. But -I know, I know, my brother plays +I know- I know, my brother plays -671 +720 00:37:41,489 --> 00:37:43,920 a lot of instruments, right? And learning to play an instrument -672 +721 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,480 can be really hard. But if you get a good understanding of how -673 +722 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,480 -to play that instrument, and a +to play that instrument and a good concept of music, then it's -674 +723 00:37:51,510 --> 00:37:54,449 easier to pick up the next instrument and to learn that one -675 +724 00:37:54,449 --> 00:37:58,260 too, right? Because there's this -idea of like, how you approach +idea of, like, how you approach -676 +725 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:04,079 -it, and the pattern matching -that happens, too. And there is +it and the pattern matching that +happens, too. And there is -677 +726 00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:07,440 going to be some overlap with these different things. And in -678 +727 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,230 your brain is kind of like, -okay. I see that there's a +"Okay. I see that there's a -679 +728 00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:12,780 pattern here. It's not exactly the same, but I can get there a -680 +729 00:38:12,780 --> 00:38:13,769 -little bit quicker. +little bit quicker." -681 +730 00:38:16,469 --> 00:38:19,739 -Dan Ott: I think that's a great -metaphor, or is it an analogy? +Dan: I think that's a great +metaphor-- or is it an analogy? -682 +731 00:38:20,039 --> 00:38:27,090 What is difference? Doesn't matter? Oh, well, all right. Are -683 +732 00:38:27,090 --> 00:38:29,070 we in a metaphor right now? Or are we in an analogy? -684 +733 00:38:29,338 --> 00:38:30,838 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I think -we're in an analogy. +Bekah: I think we're in an +analogy. -685 +734 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,749 -Dan Ott: Okay. Cool. (laugh) So +Dan: Okay. Cool. [Laughs] So that's a great analogy, Bekah. -686 +735 00:38:33,749 --> 00:38:36,538 And I -687 +736 00:38:36,539 --> 00:38:39,840 -think that kind of ties back or -in my head, it's, it's time, +think that kind of ties back-- +or in my head, it's- it's time-- -688 +737 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,760 -what I was, what I was saying -was, was the thing that you're +what I was- what I was saying +was- was the thing that you're -689 +738 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,219 teaching yourself is music. -Your, your asset like, you have +Your- your asset, like, you have -690 +739 00:38:44,219 --> 00:38:47,699 to be teaching yourself piano or x at the same time, but really, -691 +740 00:38:47,849 --> 00:38:51,030 you're teaching your brain how to music, you know? And so, -692 +741 00:38:51,690 --> 00:38:53,940 moving from instrument to instrument, you don't have to -693 +742 00:38:53,940 --> 00:38:58,650 relearn how music works, you -know? You have to learn, you +know? You have to learn-- you -694 +743 00:38:58,650 --> 00:39:02,460 know, you have to learn some new intricacies or whatever. Like, -695 +744 00:39:02,639 --> 00:39:04,769 -I, I played a lot of +I- I played a lot of instruments, but I never really -696 +745 00:39:04,769 --> 00:39:07,109 played any string instruments because they're different -697 +746 00:39:07,109 --> 00:39:09,449 -(laugh). Like, +[laughs]. Like, -698 +747 00:39:09,449 --> 00:39:11,280 you have to use two hands to be used in different ways, you -699 +748 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,809 -know? And, I mean, I'm sure, -probably could have, but you +know? And, I mean, I'm +sure—probably could have—but, -700 +749 00:39:15,809 --> 00:39:19,710 -know, I played like, every -single brass instrument, and +you know, I played, like, every +single brass instrument and -701 -00:39:19,739 --> 00:39:22,619 -could just pick them up because -I don't know, it's like, it's +750 +00:39:19,739 --> 00:39:21,179 +could just pick them up +because-- I don't know, it's -702 +751 +00:39:21,179 --> 00:39:22,619 +like- it's + +752 00:39:22,619 --> 00:39:24,404 like all and when you're in JavaScript or something, you -703 +753 00:39:24,404 --> 00:39:26,189 know? Like, -704 +754 00:39:26,250 --> 00:39:30,150 React, Vue, and all these things are much more similar. But even -705 +755 00:39:30,150 --> 00:39:34,409 -if I jumped to violin, I, my +if I jumped to violin, I-- my brain still knows music, you -706 +756 00:39:34,409 --> 00:39:36,074 -know? You know, so, I don't -know. I like, I'd very much like +know? You know, so-- I don't +know. I like-- I'd very much -707 +757 00:39:36,074 --> 00:39:37,739 -that +like that -708 +758 00:39:37,739 --> 00:39:42,239 analogy, Bekah. We're collecting -a series of like, really good, +a series of, like, really good -709 +759 00:39:43,260 --> 00:39:45,210 -develop, like, programming +develop-- like, programming developer journey -710 +760 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,559 analogies. So because Marie had -the really good one about, about +the really good one about- about -711 +761 00:39:49,559 --> 00:39:52,440 cooking, you know, about being a -chef and recipes and stuff like +chef, and recipes, and stuff -712 +762 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,510 -that. So I like it. +like that. So I like it. -713 +763 00:39:57,300 --> 00:40:03,300 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Okay, so -you're doing consulting. And so +Bekah: Okay. So, you're doing +consulting. And so, -714 +764 00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:07,230 you're primarily a Rails -developer, right? But then +developer, right? But then, -715 +765 00:40:07,469 --> 00:40:11,219 you've decided to tackle React, and you're building this -716 +766 00:40:11,219 --> 00:40:13,184 -product, right? And so you're -like trying to balance all these +product, right? And so, you're, +like, trying to balance all -717 +767 00:40:13,184 --> 00:40:15,149 -complicated +these -718 +768 00:40:15,150 --> 00:40:16,530 -things. +complicated things. -719 +769 00:40:17,380 --> 00:40:21,084 -Colleen Schnettler: (laugh) It's -too much. So, yes. So first +Colleen: [Laughs] It's too much. +So, yes. So, first -720 +770 00:40:21,084 --> 00:40:24,788 things first. I am -721 +771 00:40:24,849 --> 00:40:28,510 -committing to taking... Okay. I +committing to taking-- okay. I didn't take this Sunday off. But -722 +772 00:40:28,510 --> 00:40:32,619 I am committing to taking Sundays off. And I started doing -723 +773 00:40:32,619 --> 00:40:35,109 that a couple months ago. And that has been really good for -724 +774 00:40:35,109 --> 00:40:37,599 myself. -725 +775 00:40:37,659 --> 00:40:41,710 -So basically, I'm trying to, I'm -trying to commit to +So, basically, I'm trying to- +I'm trying to commit to -726 +776 00:40:41,710 --> 00:40:45,280 balancing these things in a way where I can take the weekends -727 +777 00:40:45,369 --> 00:40:48,010 -off. And it's funny. So I've -started like, this is so sad I +off. And it's funny. So, I've +started, like-- this is so sad I -728 +778 00:40:48,010 --> 00:40:51,460 -have to do this, Guys. But on -Friday, I delete Twitter. Like I +have to do this, guys. But on +Friday, I delete Twitter. Like, -729 +779 00:40:51,460 --> 00:40:53,829 -just delete it from my phone. -It's like, because I can't have +I just delete it from my phone. +It's, like, because I can't have -730 +780 00:40:53,829 --> 00:40:57,130 it on my phone. I just can't. -Like, it's terrible. But then, +Like, it's terrible. But then-- -731 +781 00:40:57,159 --> 00:40:59,440 -and so, I don't have slack on my +and so, I don't have Slack on my phone, I don't have Twitter on -732 +782 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,760 my phone, which is really good. So I think that's been really -733 -00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:08,139 +783 +00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,949 good at helping me balance. It's -just like finding the time, like +just like, finding the time, -734 +784 +00:41:05,949 --> 00:41:08,138 +like, + +785 00:41:08,139 --> 00:41:12,010 trying to really take a step -away on the weekends. But then I +away on the weekends. But then, -735 +786 00:41:12,010 --> 00:41:13,809 -come back on Monday and +I come back on Monday and everyone's been hanging out all -736 +787 00:41:13,809 --> 00:41:16,314 -weekend. And I'm like, oh, I -miss all these things (laugh). +weekend. And I'm like, "Oh, I +miss all these things." [Laughs] -737 +788 00:41:16,314 --> 00:41:18,819 So there's that. But for -738 +789 00:41:18,820 --> 00:41:21,175 -me, like balancing these -things... So the consulting, I +me, like, balancing these +things-- so, the consulting, I -739 +790 00:41:21,175 --> 00:41:23,530 have one -740 +791 00:41:23,530 --> 00:41:25,630 kind of long-term client, which -isn't too bad, it's like +isn't too bad. It's like -741 +792 00:41:25,630 --> 00:41:28,090 -maintenance. And that right now +maintenance. And that right now, I have a pretty intense project, -742 +793 00:41:28,090 --> 00:41:30,670 which is taking up all my time. But it's nice, because I can do -743 +794 00:41:30,670 --> 00:41:33,460 it in short bursts. So I can work really hard for three -744 +795 00:41:33,460 --> 00:41:37,539 months, have enough money for -six months. And then for the +six months. And then, for the -745 +796 00:41:37,539 --> 00:41:41,889 next three months, focus on my product. Or at least that is my -746 +797 00:41:41,889 --> 00:41:46,059 master plan. I started to learn React, and -747 +798 00:41:43,150 --> 00:41:50,829 -then I just stopped because +then I just stopped because, like, I ain't got time for that. -748 +799 00:41:46,059 --> 00:41:50,349 -So maybe in the future (laugh) -I'll sort that out. But uh, +So maybe in the future [laughs] +I'll sort that out. But-- -749 +800 00:41:50,349 --> 00:41:54,639 -yeah, the +yeah. The -750 -00:41:50,829 --> 00:41:53,919 +801 +00:41:50,829 --> 00:41:57,009 reason I started to try to learn React is because I'm building -751 -00:41:53,919 --> 00:41:57,009 -this +802 +00:41:57,009 --> 00:42:01,329 +this product, and I was getting +a lot of requests for a React -752 -00:41:54,639 --> 00:42:01,329 -product, and I was getting a lot -of requests for a React +803 +00:41:57,010 --> 00:42:00,475 +component. And then, one of, +like, my internet friends built -753 -00:41:57,010 --> 00:42:03,940 -component. And then one of like, -my internet friends built a +804 +00:42:00,475 --> 00:42:03,940 +a -754 +805 00:42:01,329 --> 00:42:06,940 React component because he -wanted it, which is awesome. But +wanted it—which is awesome. But -755 +806 00:42:03,940 --> 00:42:06,819 -I tell you what, I sure don't +I tell you what. I sure don't know how to maintain it. And now -756 +807 00:42:06,819 --> 00:42:09,698 -I'm (laugh) +I'm [laughs] -757 +808 00:42:06,940 --> 00:42:10,930 -trying to make changes. And I'm -like [gasp]. So yeah, that's a +trying to make changes. And I'm, +like, [gasps]. So, yeah. That's -758 +809 00:42:10,930 --> 00:42:14,920 -bridge +a bridge -759 +810 00:42:09,699 --> 00:42:13,719 I'm going to cross in the -future. Like, that, that was +future. Like, that- that was -760 +811 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,739 just too -761 -00:42:14,949 --> 00:42:21,730 -much. Like trying to learn that, -and try to do the product, and +812 +00:42:14,949 --> 00:42:18,339 +much. Like, trying to learn +that, and try to do the product, -762 +813 +00:42:18,339 --> 00:42:21,729 +and + +814 00:42:17,739 --> 00:42:25,239 trying to work, and do the podcast, and all the things was -763 +815 00:42:21,730 --> 00:42:27,909 too much. So I'm tabling that till I have some more time. I -764 +816 00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:31,869 mean, this is like a life, like, as we talked about earlier, -765 +817 00:42:27,940 --> 00:42:34,630 like, this is our life. So if we're constantly in sprint mode, -766 -00:42:31,869 --> 00:42:40,210 -like how are we going to -recover? And how are we going to +818 +00:42:31,869 --> 00:42:36,039 +like, how are we going to +recover? And how are we going -767 -00:42:34,630 --> 00:42:43,150 +819 +00:42:36,039 --> 00:42:40,209 +to-- + +820 +00:42:34,630 --> 00:42:38,890 like, this is my life. Something -that occurred to me, like when I +that occurred to me, like, when -768 +821 +00:42:38,890 --> 00:42:43,150 +I + +822 00:42:40,210 --> 00:42:47,199 -was starting the product, and it +was starting the product and it was really intense. It sounds -769 +823 00:42:43,150 --> 00:42:46,509 -like, like, what is my goal -here? Like, yes, I want to have +like- like, "What is my goal +here?" Like, "Yes, I want to -770 +824 00:42:46,509 --> 00:42:49,868 -a +have a -771 +825 00:42:47,199 --> 00:42:54,610 product. But if I spent the next -10 years, like heads down on +10 years, like, heads down on -772 +826 00:42:50,110 --> 00:42:53,334 -this product every weekend. +this product every weekend ..." Like, the reason I want to have -773 +827 00:42:53,334 --> 00:42:56,558 a -774 +828 00:42:54,670 --> 00:42:59,619 successful product is because I want to buy a house. Like, it's -775 -00:42:56,559 --> 00:43:03,039 -real simple. Like I want a house -with a backyard and I want my +829 +00:42:56,559 --> 00:42:59,799 +real simple. Like, I want a +house with a backyard, and I -776 +830 +00:42:59,799 --> 00:43:03,039 +want my + +831 00:42:59,769 --> 00:43:03,354 kids to have their own bedrooms. -Like that's (laugh), you know, +Like, that's [laughs], you know, -777 +832 00:43:03,354 --> 00:43:06,939 -that's, +that's- -778 +833 00:43:03,039 --> 00:43:09,489 that's why. And it occurred to -me, I was like, if I spent 10 +me, I was like, "If I spent 10 -779 +834 00:43:06,940 --> 00:43:12,940 -years, like heads down on this +years, like, heads down on this product and then sold it, even -780 +835 00:43:09,489 --> 00:43:15,250 if I sell it for $10 million, it -doesn't matter, because my kids +doesn't matter because my kids -781 +836 00:43:12,940 --> 00:43:18,730 will almost be out of the house by that point. And I'll have -782 +837 00:43:15,250 --> 00:43:22,030 missed what they really want more than a house, which is to -783 +838 00:43:18,730 --> 00:43:24,699 -hang out with me. So I know -that's like kind of cliche to +hang out with me." So I know +that's, like, kind of cliche to -784 -00:43:22,030 --> 00:43:28,329 -say, but it's true. Like it just -kind of hit me like, even if I +839 +00:43:22,030 --> 00:43:25,179 +say, but it's true. Like, it +just kind of hit me, like, even -785 +840 +00:43:25,179 --> 00:43:28,328 +if I + +841 00:43:24,699 --> 00:43:31,210 -make $10 million. And it takes +make $10 million, and it takes me 10 years, it does not matter -786 +842 00:43:28,329 --> 00:43:34,630 -because there'll be teenagers +because there'll be teenagers, and they won't wanna hang out -787 +843 00:43:31,210 --> 00:43:37,300 -with me anymore. So hence the, +with me anymore. So, hence the-- I'm always taking weekends off. -788 +844 00:43:34,690 --> 00:43:40,599 I'm always gonna focus on my priorities, and I'll fit in -789 +845 00:43:37,300 --> 00:43:40,599 everything else as I can fit it in. -790 -00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:40,420 -Dan Ott: I think that's awesome. -I, it's so hard to do, too. I - -791 -00:43:40,420 --> 00:43:40,840 -mean, +846 +00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:45,190 +Dan: I think that's awesome. I-- +it's so hard to do, too. I mean, -792 +847 00:43:45,190 --> 00:43:50,949 -I'm, it's really hard. I'm -jealous, like of your, I +I'm-- it's really hard. I'm +jealous, like, of your-- I -793 +848 00:43:50,949 --> 00:43:53,829 -don't know. It seems like, uh, +don't know. It seems like-- what's the right word? There -794 +849 00:43:53,829 --> 00:43:56,709 -(??), it seems +[??]-- it seems -795 +850 00:43:56,710 --> 00:43:58,840 like you're doing it, you know? -Like you're doing the weekends +Like, you're doing the weekends -796 -00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:00,445 +851 +00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,050 off, and, you know, everything. -And, I don't know. Jealous is a - -797 -00:44:00,445 --> 00:44:02,050 -silly +And-- I don't know. Jealous is a +852 798 00:44:02,050 --> 00:44:04,690 -word. Because I know that I -could just say, oh, I'll just +silly word. Because I know that +I could just say, "Oh, I'll just -799 -00:44:04,690 --> 00:44:06,745 -take weekends off too, you know? -(laugh) Right? Yeah, it's hard. +853 +00:44:04,690 --> 00:44:05,717 +take weekends off too," you +know? [Laughs] Right? Yeah, it's -800 +854 +00:44:05,717 --> 00:44:06,744 +hard. + +855 00:44:06,745 --> 00:44:08,800 It's hard -801 -00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:13,480 -to, it's hard to like, let go. I -also started with the, like the, +856 +00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,140 +to- it's hard to, like, let go. +I also started with the-- like -802 +857 +00:44:11,140 --> 00:44:13,480 +the-- + +858 00:44:13,539 --> 00:44:15,519 like you said, coming back on -Mondays and... I don't know. +Mondays and ... I don't know. -803 +859 00:44:15,519 --> 00:44:17,499 -Everything, +Everything-- -804 +860 00:44:17,679 --> 00:44:22,210 everybody was hanging out, doing cool stuff. Also, like, it's -805 +861 00:44:22,210 --> 00:44:25,960 like, I got a bunch of stuff I want to do, you know? And it's -806 +862 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:29,589 hard to tell myself not to -(laugh), you know? That's really - -807 -00:44:29,589 --> 00:44:33,218 -awesome to +[laughs], you know? That's -808 -00:44:33,309 --> 00:44:34,179 -hear you talk about that. +863 +00:44:29,589 --> 00:44:34,179 +really awesome to hear you talk +about that. -809 +864 00:44:35,170 --> 00:44:36,670 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, it's -my husband was talking to me +Bekah: Yeah, it's my husband was +talking to me -810 +865 00:44:36,670 --> 00:44:40,960 this morning. And he was like, -you can't just... I can't, I +"You can't just ..." I can't-- I -811 +866 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:42,579 don't know how I put it, but, -you can't just sprint all the +"You can't just sprint all the -812 +867 00:44:42,579 --> 00:44:44,124 -time, right? Like you need a -rest. Everybody needs to rest. +time," right? Like, "You need a +rest. Everybody needs to rest." -813 +868 00:44:44,124 --> 00:44:45,669 And I was like, -814 +869 00:44:46,449 --> 00:44:48,564 -But no, I don't (laugh), you +"But no, I don't [laughs], you know? I can just keep going. I -815 +870 00:44:48,564 --> 00:44:50,679 -can power through it, +can power through it," -816 +871 00:44:50,679 --> 00:44:53,409 right? Eventually you get a -second wind. But how many times - -817 -00:44:53,409 --> 00:44:55,359 -you get a second wind? I mean, -you don't want one, you don't +second win. But how many times -818 -00:44:55,359 --> 00:44:57,309 -have one +872 +00:44:53,409 --> 00:44:57,309 +you get a second win? I mean, +you don't want one-- you don't -819 +873 00:44:57,309 --> 00:44:58,030 -second one. +have one-- second one. -820 -00:45:01,059 --> 00:45:02,019 -Colleen Schnettler: (laugh) And -then you collapse from - -821 -00:45:02,019 --> 00:45:02,979 -exhaustion. That's +874 +00:45:01,059 --> 00:45:02,979 +Colleen: [Laughs] And then, you +collapse from exhaustion. That's -822 +875 00:45:02,980 --> 00:45:03,699 how that goes. -823 +876 00:45:04,809 --> 00:45:07,359 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah. It is -like balancing, what, the kids +Bekah: Yeah. It is like +balancing what-- the kids -824 +877 00:45:07,359 --> 00:45:09,909 -too, you know, +too, you know? -825 +878 00:45:09,909 --> 00:45:12,819 -it's, there's just so much to -try and figure out and you want +It's-- there's just so much to +try and figure out, and you want -826 +879 00:45:12,819 --> 00:45:15,729 to -827 +880 00:45:15,730 --> 00:45:18,280 stay up on things, you want to -learn things and you want to do +learn things, and you want to do -828 +881 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,429 -work and you want to grow. And -then you want to hang out with +work, and you want to grow. And +then, you want to hang out with -829 +882 00:45:21,429 --> 00:45:28,329 your kids. And it is just really, really challenging to be -830 +883 00:45:28,329 --> 00:45:31,360 able to do that. And like you're saying. You miss out on what -831 +884 00:45:31,389 --> 00:45:34,630 -people are doing, or somebody -like, I learned 17 languages +people are doing or somebody +like, "I learned 17 languages -832 +885 00:45:34,659 --> 00:45:36,250 during the pandemic. What did -you learn? Like... (laugh) +you learn?" Like [laughs]-- -833 +886 00:45:38,199 --> 00:45:41,530 -Colleen Schnettler: Yeah, when I -started doing React, I bought a +Colleen: Yeah. When I started +doing React, I bought a -834 +887 00:45:41,530 --> 00:45:43,929 book and I know the author really well. So that's cool. So -835 +888 00:45:43,929 --> 00:45:47,769 -I literally have the author on +I literally have the author on, like, speed dial. And one of my -836 +889 00:45:47,769 --> 00:45:49,960 -friends was like, oh, I bought +friends was like, "Oh, I bought this book and I read it in a -837 +890 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,029 -weekend. And I was like, ugh, I -don't want to read a React book +weekend." And I was like, "Ugh, +I don't want to read a React -838 +891 00:45:52,029 --> 00:45:54,098 -all +book all -839 +892 00:45:54,099 --> 00:45:55,794 -weekend. Like, I just don't. But -people are doing that, so you +weekend." Like, I just don't. +But people are doing that so you -840 +893 00:45:55,794 --> 00:45:57,489 feel like you're getting ahead. -841 +894 00:45:57,579 --> 00:46:00,939 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I juggling -that. I can juggling at the +Bekah: I juggling that. I can +juggling at the -842 +895 00:46:00,939 --> 00:46:04,299 book. Yeah. Maybe that's how -843 -00:46:04,300 --> 00:46:07,374 +896 +00:46:04,300 --> 00:46:10,448 I'll start putting myself to -sleep. (laugh) Sorry. I just, +sleep. [Laughs] Sorry. I just-- -844 -00:46:07,374 --> 00:46:10,448 -coding - -845 +897 00:46:10,449 --> 00:46:13,210 -books are not my, they're not my -thing. +coding books are not my-- +they're not my thing. -846 +898 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,159 -Dan Ott: I stopped buying them a -while ago. I have like, oh +Dan: I stopped buying them a +while ago. I have like-- oh, -847 +899 00:46:15,550 --> 00:46:16,975 -yeah, you can see some of them -behind me. But I have like, a +yeah. You can see some of them +behind me. But I have, like, a -848 +900 00:46:16,975 --> 00:46:18,400 pile of -849 +901 00:46:18,429 --> 00:46:23,590 -books and I, I can never get +books and I- I can never get through them, you know? It's -850 +902 00:46:23,590 --> 00:46:26,800 like my free time, if I'm -actually having free time, I +actually having free time. I -851 +903 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,380 don't want to be doing anything related to my computer anymore, -852 +904 00:46:29,469 --> 00:46:33,369 -or development or, you know, -it's like, there are all this +or development, or, you know. +It's, like, there are all this -853 +905 00:46:33,369 --> 00:46:38,110 -stuff, books and podcasts and +stuff, books, and podcasts, and everything that I want to -854 +906 00:46:38,110 --> 00:46:40,659 -consume, because I want to know +consume because I want to know them and, you know, know the -855 +907 00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,170 material and all that stuff. But -it's just so hard. It's, there's +it's just so hard. It's-- -856 +908 00:46:44,170 --> 00:46:46,719 -not enough hours, really, in the -day, you know? +there's not enough hours, +really, in the day, you know? -857 -00:46:46,869 --> 00:46:47,799 -Colleen Schnettler: Yeah, well, -I think we're socialized to one - -858 -00:46:47,799 --> 00:46:48,729 -of +909 +00:46:46,869 --> 00:46:48,729 +Colleen: Yeah, well, I think +we're socialized to one of -859 +910 00:46:48,730 --> 00:46:50,619 work all the time. So we should -figure out a way to +figure out a way to socialize -860 -00:46:50,619 --> 00:46:53,889 -socialize like, like gold star, -every Sunday you don't work. +911 +00:46:50,619 --> 00:46:54,300 +like- like gold star, every +Sunday you don't work. And then, -861 -00:46:53,949 --> 00:46:56,469 -And then you can like move it to -Sunday and Saturday, double gold +912 +00:46:54,300 --> 00:46:56,469 +you can, like, move it to Sunday +and Saturday. Double gold -862 +913 00:46:56,469 --> 00:46:58,524 -stars (laugh). Like, we need to +stars [laughs]. Like, we need to find a way to incentivize -863 +914 00:46:58,524 --> 00:47:00,579 -ourselves, +ourselves -864 +915 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,489 not to work all the time. Because there's so much pressure -865 +916 00:47:03,489 --> 00:47:04,269 to work all the time. -866 +917 00:47:05,530 --> 00:47:09,340 -Dan Ott: That's, I like that -idea that gold stars in your, +Dan: That's-- I like that idea-- +that gold stars in your-- -867 -00:47:09,369 --> 00:47:13,780 -yeah, the, the like, incentives -are your health, but it like, +918 +00:47:09,369 --> 00:47:11,574 +yeah. The- the-- like, +incentives are your health, but -868 +919 +00:47:11,574 --> 00:47:13,779 +it, like-- + +920 00:47:13,780 --> 00:47:16,539 it's like a long term thing, right? So you're never gonna -869 +921 00:47:16,539 --> 00:47:18,714 -know until... The incentives -will not show up until, until +know until-- the incentives will +not show up until- until -870 +922 00:47:18,714 --> 00:47:20,889 -much later (laugh). Yeah. +much later [laughs]. Yeah. -871 +923 00:47:21,210 --> 00:47:23,280 -Colleen Schnettler: Yeah, you're -totally right. Like, it's, you +Colleen: Yeah, you're totally +right. Like, it's-- you -872 +924 00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,260 really won't know until it's too late, right? Because then you'll -873 +925 00:47:25,260 --> 00:47:27,900 just get a pass out from exhaustion or whatever. However, -874 +926 00:47:27,900 --> 00:47:29,880 everyone deals with a different way, right? But I'm sure we've -875 +927 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,929 -all done that, where we work way +all done that where we work way too much. And then, you know, we -876 +928 00:47:33,929 --> 00:47:35,610 have to deal with the ramifications of that. -877 +929 00:47:36,179 --> 00:47:39,809 -Dan Ott: Yes (laugh). Yes, that +Dan: Yes [laughs]. Yes, that sounds familiar, vaguely. -878 +930 00:47:43,260 --> 00:47:45,750 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I want to -jump back just for a second. So +Bekah: I want to jump back just +for a second. So, -879 +931 00:47:45,780 --> 00:47:49,079 -you know, we talked about like +you know, we talked about, like, the benefits of working for -880 -00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:55,199 +932 +00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:52,139 yourself and community support. -But also, so I'm like interested +But also-- so, I'm, like, -881 +933 +00:47:52,139 --> 00:47:55,199 +interested + +934 00:47:55,199 --> 00:48:02,280 in this question of what qualities are important in the -882 +935 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,070 -people that you work with? So +people that you work with? So, you know, it might be your -883 +936 00:48:05,070 --> 00:48:07,710 -clients, or if you can reimagine +clients or if you can reimagine yourself going back into the -884 +937 00:48:07,710 --> 00:48:09,704 -workforce, like... What, what -are those things that make you +workforce, like-- what- what are +those things that make you -885 +938 00:48:09,704 --> 00:48:11,698 want -886 +939 00:48:11,699 --> 00:48:14,820 to work with that person? Or make it a safe space, a safe -887 +940 00:48:14,820 --> 00:48:15,690 environment for you? -888 +941 00:48:16,349 --> 00:48:18,150 -Colleen Schnettler: Yeah, sure. -I've worked with a lot of people +Colleen: Yeah, sure. I've worked +with a lot of people -889 +942 00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:20,760 -doing that, because I do like a +doing that because I do like a combination of contracting and -890 +943 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,670 consulting. So I'll drum, jump -on and augment a team for six +on, and augment a team for six -891 +944 00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:28,590 -months to a year, or I'll work +months to a year, or I'll work, you know, in a smaller group. So -892 +945 00:48:28,590 --> 00:48:36,179 -what I look for, in people I -work with, I really, like people +what I look for in people I work +with, I really like people -893 +946 00:48:36,210 --> 00:48:41,880 who are honest, obviously, who -are, I don't want to say, well, +are-- I don't want to say-- -894 +947 00:48:41,909 --> 00:48:44,880 -like empathetic and +well, like, empathetic and understanding, like my very -895 +948 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,690 -first contract job. And it was -like really exciting to get +first contract job. And it was, +like, really exciting to get -896 +949 00:48:48,690 --> 00:48:53,429 -this because I was like, really +this because I was, like, really new. It was a team. They were VC -897 +950 00:48:53,429 --> 00:48:56,039 backed. So they had a lot of -money. It was a team of like, a +money. It was a team of, like, -898 +951 00:48:56,039 --> 00:48:58,649 -bunch of like 22 year old guys -(laugh). I mean, Guys, this was +a bunch of, like, 22-year-old +guys [laughs]. I mean, guys, -899 +952 00:48:58,649 --> 00:49:01,259 -like me +this was, like, me -900 -00:49:01,260 --> 00:49:03,225 +953 +00:49:01,260 --> 00:49:06,119 coming off of being a stay at -home mom, I'm what, like, 32. +home mom. I'm what? Like, 32. -901 -00:49:03,225 --> 00:49:05,190 -And +954 +00:49:06,119 --> 00:49:08,309 +And they're, like, on Slack. And +they would type things like- -902 -00:49:06,119 --> 00:49:10,500 -they're like, on Slack, and they -would type things like, like +955 +00:49:08,309 --> 00:49:10,499 +like-- -903 +956 00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:14,460 they would just type all these acronyms I didn't even know. It -904 +957 00:49:14,460 --> 00:49:17,039 was hilarious. But, okay. So -these guys, and these guys did +these guys-- and these guys did -905 +958 00:49:17,039 --> 00:49:19,530 work all the time, which was -negative. So things I look for, +negative. So things I look for-- -906 +959 00:49:19,590 --> 00:49:23,400 -my point of bringing these, +my point of bringing these-- bringing this up is despite the -907 +960 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,230 -fact that like, they were kind +fact that, like, they were kind of young, and they were really -908 +961 00:49:25,230 --> 00:49:29,039 excited, and they had money, -they were also like, really +they were also, like, really -909 +962 00:49:29,099 --> 00:49:32,190 -okay, and kind of empathetic to -the fact that like my life +okay and kind of empathetic to +the fact that, like, my life -910 +963 00:49:32,190 --> 00:49:36,179 situation was really different -than theirs. And so when I +than theirs. And so, when I -911 -00:49:36,179 --> 00:49:39,329 +964 +00:49:36,179 --> 00:49:37,754 couldn't turn around a feature -superfast, or like when I wasn't +superfast or, like, when I -912 +965 +00:49:37,754 --> 00:49:39,329 +wasn't + +966 00:49:39,329 --> 00:49:42,960 online on the weekends, like, -they got it. And so that's +they got it. And so, that's -913 -00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,480 -really important. Like, like the -people you work with don't have +967 +00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:44,220 +really important. Like- like, +the people you work with don't -914 +968 +00:49:44,220 --> 00:49:45,480 +have + +969 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,110 to be in the same life stage you're in. But if they can at -915 +970 00:49:49,110 --> 00:49:52,860 least understand and not penalize you for having to stop -916 +971 00:49:52,860 --> 00:49:55,110 work because you got to go pick the kids up from daycare or -917 +972 00:49:55,110 --> 00:49:56,849 whatever it is, that's really important. -918 +973 00:49:57,809 --> 00:50:00,149 I just like people who are honest and, you know, really -919 +974 00:50:00,149 --> 00:50:02,489 open -920 +975 00:50:02,489 --> 00:50:05,429 to learning. I think no matter where you are in your coding -921 +976 00:50:05,429 --> 00:50:09,809 -journey, you can, there can be a -lot of give and take. I worked +journey, you can-- there can be +a lot of give and take. I worked -922 +977 00:50:09,809 --> 00:50:13,380 -with someone else who was like, -really militant, I don't know if +with someone else who was, like, +really militant—I don't know if -923 -00:50:13,380 --> 00:50:19,110 +978 +00:50:13,380 --> 00:50:16,245 that's the right word about a -specific style of coding. And I, +specific style of coding. And -924 +979 +00:50:16,245 --> 00:50:19,110 +I-- + +980 00:50:19,110 --> 00:50:21,300 if I were to work with that person again, I would push back -925 +981 00:50:21,300 --> 00:50:23,309 -a little more on that even the +a little more on that-- even the way, you know, when people -926 +982 00:50:23,309 --> 00:50:26,730 review PRs, like, there's so much you can tell. By the way, -927 +983 00:50:26,730 --> 00:50:30,179 -people review your PRs. But um, -yeah, I mean, just people who +people review your PRs. But-- +yeah. I mean, just people who -928 +984 00:50:30,179 --> 00:50:32,969 treat you equally and fairly like part of the team, and there -929 +985 00:50:32,969 --> 00:50:36,630 doesn't have to be a team -hierarchy and our, you know, +hierarchy, and our-- you know, -930 +986 00:50:36,630 --> 00:50:39,119 give and take, like, you can -teach them something, and they +teach them something and they -931 +987 00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:40,079 can teach you something. -932 +988 00:50:41,460 --> 00:50:44,670 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, -that's so great. I think, in one +Bekah: Yeah, that's so great. I +think, in one -933 +989 00:50:44,670 --> 00:50:48,030 of my previous jobs, I was there for many, many years. And I -934 +990 00:50:48,030 --> 00:50:51,210 don't know that anyone ever told me good job. And I don't think -935 +991 00:50:51,210 --> 00:50:54,570 I ever realized it until Dan and I started working together. And -936 +992 00:50:54,570 --> 00:50:58,110 -he said, good job. And I was -like, oh... Like, that was nice, +he said, "Good job." And I was +like, "Oh." Like, that was nice, -937 +993 00:50:58,110 --> 00:51:01,650 -right? Like (laugh), I don't +right? Like [laughs]-- I don't know. Just -938 +994 00:51:01,650 --> 00:51:03,569 -feels good to, I don't know, -it's an, it's an +feels good to-- I don't know. +It's an- it's an -939 -00:51:03,569 --> 00:51:05,488 -acknowledgement. And it's - -940 -00:51:05,489 --> 00:51:08,309 -simple, right? And, um, +995 +00:51:03,569 --> 00:51:08,309 +acknowledgement, and it's +simple, right? And-- -941 +996 00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,650 -Dan Ott: Yeah, I think, I think -one of the things I tried to +Dan: Yeah, I think- I think one +of the things I tried to -942 +997 00:51:12,650 --> 00:51:15,590 look out for is yet the sort of a two way communication, you -943 +998 00:51:15,590 --> 00:51:19,940 know? Like, that's something I value personally. It kind of -944 -00:51:20,690 --> 00:51:23,780 +999 +00:51:20,690 --> 00:51:22,235 ties into everything you were -saying, but you know, being more +saying. But, you know, being -945 +1000 +00:51:22,235 --> 00:51:23,780 +more + +1001 00:51:23,780 --> 00:51:26,989 -of an equal footing, even if it, -even like, yes, there's a +of an equal footing, even if +it-- even, like-- yes, there's a -946 +1002 00:51:26,989 --> 00:51:29,344 client, you know, relationship, -you know, I sensibly, I'm doing +you know? I sensibly-- I'm doing -947 +1003 00:51:29,344 --> 00:51:31,699 work for a -948 -00:51:31,699 --> 00:51:33,634 -person, you know, like... I -don't know. The client's always - -949 -00:51:33,634 --> 00:51:35,569 -right +1004 +00:51:31,699 --> 00:51:35,569 +person, you know? Like-- I don't +know. The client's always -950 +1005 00:51:35,570 --> 00:51:37,099 -or whatever, you know, but it's, -like... +right or whatever, you know? But +it's, like-- -951 +1006 00:51:37,849 --> 00:51:39,829 -Colleen Schnettler: Well, I have -hired, yeah. I have hired a +Colleen: Well, I have hired-- +yeah. I have hired a -952 +1007 00:51:39,829 --> 00:51:43,159 contractor who's a better developer than I am. I hired him -953 +1008 00:51:43,159 --> 00:51:47,659 -to review my PRs. And like, I -loved his style, because he +to review my PRs. And, like, I +loved his style because he -954 +1009 00:51:47,659 --> 00:51:51,110 would pull out something, he'd -be like, hey, this is really +be like, "Hey, this is really -955 +1010 00:51:51,110 --> 00:51:53,269 -cool, how you did this, or, I +cool. How you did this?" Or, "I really liked the way this is -956 -00:51:53,269 --> 00:51:56,480 -structured. And then he would -bring in, but did you know about +1011 +00:51:53,269 --> 00:51:54,874 +structured." And then, he would +bring in, "But did you know -957 +1012 +00:51:54,874 --> 00:51:56,479 +about + +1013 00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:59,360 this resource? Have you read -this article, like, and it was +this article?" Like-- and it -958 +1014 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,610 -just so cool, like, yay. +was just so cool, like, yay! -959 +1015 00:52:03,079 --> 00:52:06,619 -Dan Ott: I mean, that is -awesome. But also just the idea +Dan: I mean, that is awesome. +But also, just the idea -960 +1016 00:52:06,619 --> 00:52:08,929 -that... I don't know. Being +that-- I don't know, being comfortable with hiring somebody -961 +1017 00:52:08,929 --> 00:52:11,239 that you know -962 +1018 00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,849 is very much better than you or -whatever, like that situation, +whatever-- like, that situation, -963 +1019 00:52:13,849 --> 00:52:16,579 -like the fact that you did that -is like, just such a cool thing +like, the fact that you did that +is, like, just such a cool thing -964 +1020 00:52:16,579 --> 00:52:19,760 -to me. Just as a business owner -and as like a developer and +to me. Just as a business owner, +and as, like, a developer, and -965 +1021 00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:23,989 somebody who, you know, wants to -keep learning, but maybe this +keep learning. But maybe this -966 +1022 00:52:23,989 --> 00:52:27,679 -is, um... Maybe it's only -strange to me? I don't know. +is-- maybe it's only strange to +me? I don't know. -967 +1023 00:52:27,710 --> 00:52:29,434 -That's strange, but like, -surprising, or... That's not +That's strange, but, like, +surprising, or-- that's not -968 +1024 00:52:29,434 --> 00:52:31,158 even -969 +1025 00:52:31,159 --> 00:52:35,300 -the right word. But the, that +the right word. But the-- that, like, you did it on purpose, -970 -00:52:35,300 --> 00:52:37,849 -right? Like that tactical thing. -You're like, I want to go hire +1026 +00:52:35,300 --> 00:52:36,574 +right? Like, that tactical +thing. You're like, "I want to -971 -00:52:37,849 --> 00:52:41,030 -somebody to that is like much -better than me to help me and my +1027 +00:52:36,574 --> 00:52:37,848 +go hire -972 +1028 +00:52:37,849 --> 00:52:39,439 +somebody to-- that is, like, +much better than me to help me + +1029 +00:52:39,439 --> 00:52:41,029 +and my + +1030 00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:43,250 -business. And that's also, I +business." And that's also-- I just think that's so cool. -973 +1031 00:52:43,940 --> 00:52:45,530 -Colleen Schnettler: Yeah, -honestly, it went so well. Now +Colleen: Yeah. Honestly, it went +so well. Now -974 +1032 00:52:45,530 --> 00:52:48,019 -I'm looking for like +I'm looking for, like, opportunities to do it, again. -975 +1033 00:52:48,079 --> 00:52:49,564 -I'm like, how can I hire him -again? (laugh) Like, how do we +I'm like, "How can I hire him +again?" [Laughs] Like, "How do -976 +1034 00:52:49,564 --> 00:52:51,049 -do this again? +we do this again?" -977 +1035 00:52:51,679 --> 00:52:52,460 -Dan Ott: That's really cool. +Dan: That's really cool. -978 +1036 00:52:53,869 --> 00:52:57,170 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Yeah, that -is super awesome. Okay, Colleen, +Bekah: Yeah, that is super +awesome. Okay, Colleen, -979 +1037 00:52:57,170 --> 00:53:00,650 it's been really great having -you here. And so we really +you here. And so, we really -980 +1038 00:53:00,650 --> 00:53:04,849 appreciate you talking about these things. And where can our -981 +1039 00:53:04,849 --> 00:53:05,960 listeners find you? -982 +1040 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,019 -Colleen Schnettler: I am on -Twitter. My handle is +Colleen: I am on Twitter. My +handle is -983 +1041 00:53:09,079 --> 00:53:12,559 @leenyburger. You can also check out my podcast, the Software -984 +1042 00:53:12,559 --> 00:53:16,940 Social Podcast, available on iTunes and wherever you get your -985 +1043 00:53:16,940 --> 00:53:17,690 podcasts. -986 -00:53:19,039 --> 00:53:20,344 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Like and -hit subscribe. I think, - -987 -00:53:20,344 --> 00:53:21,649 -actually, +1044 +00:53:19,039 --> 00:53:21,649 +Bekah: Like and hit subscribe. I +think, actually, -988 +1045 00:53:22,159 --> 00:53:26,630 the first time I ever met you, -we were doing like co-working +we were doing, like, co-working -989 +1046 00:53:26,659 --> 00:53:31,400 in the Moms Can Code and your -handle was leenyburger and I'm +handle was leenyburger. And I'm -990 +1047 00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:32,960 pretty sure I called you Leeny. -So... (laugh) +So [laughs]-- -991 +1048 00:53:35,090 --> 00:53:36,394 -Colleen Schnettler: (laugh) It's -a terrible handle. Like, I had +Colleen: [Laughs] It's a +terrible handle. Like, I had -992 +1049 00:53:36,394 --> 00:53:37,698 no idea that, -993 +1050 00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:41,000 like, Twitter was a real thing -when I signed up. And now it's +when I signed up. And now, it's, -994 +1051 00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,130 -like I'm stuck with it for life. -So, oh well... (laugh) +like, I'm stuck with it for +life. So-- oh, well [laughs]. -995 +1052 00:53:43,489 --> 00:53:45,650 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: You can't -get away from it. (laugh) +Bekah: You can't get away from +it [laughs]. -996 +1053 00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:49,069 -Dan Ott: I think it's great -handle, by the way. I think it's +Dan: I think it's great handle, +by the way. I think it's -997 +1054 00:53:49,069 --> 00:53:49,698 awesome. -998 +1055 00:53:49,699 --> 00:53:51,559 -Colleen Schnettler: Thanks. -(laugh) +Colleen: Thanks [laughs]. -999 +1056 00:53:51,559 --> 00:53:52,849 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: I'm sorry I -called you Leeny. (laugh) +Bekah: I'm sorry I called you +Leeny [laughs]. -1000 +1057 00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:55,909 -Colleen Schnettler: I don't even -remember. I do remember you were +Colleen: I don't even remember. +I do remember you were, -1001 +1058 00:53:55,909 --> 00:53:58,550 -like on the treadmill or -something while we were, we were +like, on the treadmill or +something while we were- we were -1002 +1059 00:53:58,550 --> 00:53:59,210 co-working. -1003 +1060 00:53:59,449 --> 00:54:00,800 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Exercise -bike. Yeah. +Bekah: Exercise bike. Yeah. -1004 +1061 00:54:00,860 --> 00:54:03,019 -Colleen Schnettler: I was pretty -impressed. I was like, oh, nice. - -1005 -00:54:04,679 --> 00:54:05,384 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: (laugh) -Trying to, trying to get it all +Colleen: I was pretty impressed. +I was like, "Oh, nice." -1006 -00:54:05,384 --> 00:54:06,089 -in. +1062 +00:54:04,679 --> 00:54:06,089 +Bekah: [Laughs] Trying to- +trying to get it all in. -1007 +1063 00:54:08,610 --> 00:54:11,219 Colleen, it's been great having you here. And we're really -1008 +1064 00:54:11,219 --> 00:54:15,960 excited to see what comes next and to listen to your podcast -1009 +1065 00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,750 -episode. So we'll talk to you +episode. So, we'll talk to you soon. Bye. -1010 +1066 00:54:19,559 --> 00:54:19,920 -Colleen Schnettler: Bye. +Colleen: Bye. -1011 +1067 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:25,860 -Bekah Hawrot Weigel: Thank you -for listening to this episode of +Bekah: Thank you for listening +to this episode of -1012 +1068 00:54:25,860 --> 00:54:30,090 -the Virtual Coffee podcast. This +the Virtual Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott -1013 +1069 00:54:30,090 --> 00:54:34,289 and Bekah Hawrot Weigel, and edited by Dan Ott. If you have -1014 +1070 00:54:34,289 --> 00:54:36,809 questions or comments, you can hit us up on Twitter -1015 +1071 00:54:37,110 --> 00:54:41,579 @VirtualCoffeeIO. Or you can email us at podcast at -1016 +1072 00:54:41,610 --> 00:54:43,469 hello@virtualcoffee.io. You can -find the show notes, plus you +find the show notes, plus, you -1017 +1073 00:54:43,469 --> 00:54:45,328 can -1018 +1074 00:54:45,329 --> 00:54:48,090 sign up for our newsletter to find out what Virtual Coffee has -1019 +1075 00:54:48,090 --> 00:54:51,389 been up to on our website at virtualcoffee.io -1020 +1076 00:54:52,860 --> 00:54:55,559 -Dan Ott: Please subscribe to our +Dan: Please subscribe to our podcast and be sure to leave us -1021 +1077 00:54:55,559 --> 00:54:58,739 -a review. Thanks for listening +a review. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week. \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/episodes/5_6.srt b/episodes/5_6.srt index b006ea2..48a8531 100644 --- a/episodes/5_6.srt +++ b/episodes/5_6.srt @@ -28,12 +28,12 @@ developers at all stages of 7 00:00:21,696 --> 00:00:22,985 -their +their coding 8 00:00:22,986 --> 00:00:25,417 -coding journey. And they're here -on this podcast, sharing their +journey. And they're here, on +this podcast, sharing their 9 00:00:25,417 --> 00:00:26,886 @@ -47,7 +47,7 @@ it with 11 00:00:28,356 --> 00:00:30,847 you. Here with me today is my -cohost, Dan. +co-host, Dan. 12 00:00:31,882 --> 00:00:35,421 @@ -71,7 +71,7 @@ recently and checked out 16 00:00:44,301 --> 00:00:45,626 our members page, you might have -noticed, we now have -- we have +noticed we now have-- we have 17 00:00:45,626 --> 00:00:46,951 @@ -99,7 +99,7 @@ Andrew is one of the people that 22 00:00:57,432 --> 00:00:58,991 has been helping out with us for -a while. He's been doing -- +a while. He's been doing-- 23 00:00:58,991 --> 00:01:00,550 @@ -139,12 +139,12 @@ is been a while. Yeah. 31 00:01:11,262 --> 00:01:12,701 -Dan: It feels -- yeah. It feels -like to me, it's been while. +Dan: It feels-- yeah. It feels +like, to me, it's been while. 32 00:01:12,701 --> 00:01:12,861 -And- and -- +And- and-- 33 00:01:12,861 --> 00:01:14,331 @@ -163,7 +163,7 @@ we do a different challenge 36 00:01:20,546 --> 00:01:22,811 -every month. And- and, yeah. So +every month. And- and-- yeah. So Andrew has been helping lead 37 @@ -172,7 +172,7 @@ that 38 00:01:25,076 --> 00:01:29,300 -group along with Aurelie and -- +group along with Aurelie and-- who was on the podcast- 39 @@ -192,11 +192,11 @@ together [??][chuckles]. 42 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,647 Dan: -she was on. Yeah, yeah. -She was on- [laughs] she was +She was on-- [laughs] she was 43 00:01:34,647 --> 00:01:37,887 -on a while ago too. So, yeah. We +on a while ago, too. So yeah. We talked about that for a while. 44 @@ -210,7 +210,7 @@ it's 46 00:01:42,656 --> 00:01:45,266 -been like leading the- leading +been like leading the-- leading the group and helping, you 47 @@ -226,7 +226,7 @@ what it's like to be a mobile 49 00:01:50,697 --> 00:01:54,266 developer, some of his -experiences with React Native +experiences with React Native, 50 00:01:54,356 --> 00:01:56,846 @@ -250,7 +250,7 @@ members and what they're doing. 54 00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:06,300 I mean, not just because we -wanna recognize our members, but +wanna recognize our members but 55 00:02:06,300 --> 00:02:06,780 @@ -286,7 +286,7 @@ fill out one of those forms and 62 00:02:23,171 --> 00:02:24,701 -we can [laughs] -- +we can [laughs]-- 63 00:02:25,937 --> 00:02:27,287 @@ -311,12 +311,12 @@ section, 67 00:02:34,336 --> 00:02:38,947 virtualcoffee.io/resources. And -then, I dunno. Click through in +then-- I dunno. Click through in 68 00:02:38,947 --> 00:02:42,336 there. It's in there somewhere. -So, yeah. It was a good +So-- yeah. It was a good 69 00:02:42,336 --> 00:02:44,766 @@ -355,7 +355,7 @@ be? My name is Bekah. I am a 76 00:03:13,112 --> 00:03:16,007 technical community builder from -a small town in Ohio, and I +a small town in Ohio and I 77 00:03:16,007 --> 00:03:18,902 @@ -368,8 +368,8 @@ have some kind of magical aspect 79 00:03:27,557 --> 00:03:33,500 -to it, because that would be -more fun. I was going to say +to it because that would be more +fun. I was going to say 80 00:03:33,500 --> 00:03:33,857 @@ -386,13 +386,13 @@ with that. 83 00:03:40,263 --> 00:03:46,043 -Dan: Pre beast conversion or +Dan: Pre-beast conversion or post? Like, is he still The 84 00:03:46,043 --> 00:03:50,723 -Beast? Basically, I mean -- and -all the other, you know, fun -- +Beast? Basically, I mean-- and +all the other, you know, fun-- 85 00:03:50,923 --> 00:03:52,902 @@ -402,7 +402,7 @@ magic if he's not The Beast. 86 00:03:53,182 --> 00:03:54,300 Dan: Right [chuckles]. Right, -right. That's my -- that was +right. That's my-- that was 87 00:03:54,300 --> 00:03:54,622 @@ -433,7 +433,7 @@ watched it with the kids. 93 00:04:04,362 --> 00:04:06,132 -They -- you +They-- you 94 00:04:06,133 --> 00:04:08,112 @@ -448,7 +448,7 @@ like, all the furniture are his 96 00:04:12,432 --> 00:04:15,000 servants or whatever, his -household staff. Well, what -- +household staff. Well, what-- 97 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,632 @@ -479,12 +479,12 @@ everybody is furniture. I think 103 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,362 -it's kind of got that Encanto -vibe, +it's kind of got that "Encanto" +vibe, where 104 00:04:29,362 --> 00:04:33,500 -where there's like magic in the +there's, like, magic in the house. So, like, the head of all 105 @@ -502,7 +502,7 @@ the magic now. 108 00:04:41,076 --> 00:04:42,981 -Dan: Oh, wait. You're -- so +Dan: Oh, wait. You're-- so you're saying, like, alive cups, 109 @@ -512,20 +512,20 @@ but they weren't 110 00:04:44,886 --> 00:04:46,475 actually people before. They -just like -- +just, like-- 111 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:47,451 -Bekah: Ye- right. Just like- +Bekah: Ye- right. Just, like- 112 00:04:47,586 --> 00:04:48,725 -Dan: The magic is like turning --- okay. +Dan: The magic is, like, +turning-- okay. 113 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,000 -Bekah: -Mrs. Pots, and Chip, +Bekah: -Mrs. Pots and Chip, like, they were people. But 114 @@ -557,7 +557,7 @@ I'm Dan. I do web development in 120 00:05:06,105 --> 00:05:08,500 -Cleveland, Ohio. And, I think, +Cleveland, Ohio. And I think, the first thing that 121 @@ -576,17 +576,17 @@ plus canoeing is one of my 124 00:05:17,596 --> 00:05:22,605 -favorite things and, so, that'd +favorite things, and so, that'd be cool. Maui seems like a 125 00:05:22,605 --> 00:05:25,700 cool hang. So I'm- I'm going -with- I'm going with Moana as +with-- I'm going with "Moana" as 126 00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:27,826 -my- as my animated universe to +my-- as my animated universe to live in. 127 @@ -601,17 +601,17 @@ to use it very much. But, you 129 00:05:31,745 --> 00:05:34,385 -know, that -- I'm sure it rains -there sometimes. There's like a +know, that-- I'm sure it rains +there sometimes. There's, like, 130 00:05:34,385 --> 00:05:35,405 -rainy season, +a rainy season, 131 00:05:35,406 --> 00:05:37,570 -right? I would- I would think. -Thanks for- thanks for that +right? I would-- I would think. +Thanks for-- thanks for that 132 00:05:37,570 --> 00:05:39,734 @@ -642,7 +642,7 @@ Wisconsin. I- I think I'd 138 00:05:57,247 --> 00:06:02,857 -live in the valley in Encanto, +live in the valley in "Encanto", but I have a bit of a recency 139 @@ -652,12 +652,12 @@ most recent animated film I've 140 00:06:06,547 --> 00:06:09,839 -seen. But I- I -- the -- in the -intro sequence, there's these -- +seen. But I- I-- the-- in the +intro sequence, there's these-- 141 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,131 -so it -- it's +so it-- it's 142 00:06:13,132 --> 00:06:14,902 @@ -685,915 +685,915 @@ Dan: Nice. 147 00:06:24,822 --> 00:06:27,314 -Bekah: Yeah. [Chuckles] that is --- my- my kids love, or my +Bekah: Yeah. [Chuckles] that +is-- my- my kids love-- or my 148 00:06:27,314 --> 00:06:29,806 five-year-old 149 -00:06:29,807 --> 00:06:32,532 -loves that part where she says --- Mirabel- Mirabel says, +00:06:29,807 --> 00:06:35,257 +loves that part where she says-- +Mirabel- Mirabel says, "That's 150 -00:06:32,532 --> 00:06:35,257 -"That's - -151 00:06:35,257 --> 00:06:38,347 why coffee is for grownups." They just laugh. Every single -152 +151 00:06:38,347 --> 00:06:41,437 time [Andrew chuckles]. -153 +152 00:06:41,437 --> 00:06:43,101 So, welcome, Andrew. Thank you so much for being here with us -154 +153 00:06:43,101 --> 00:06:44,765 for -155 +154 00:06:44,857 --> 00:06:49,987 this episode of our podcast. And we always like to get started -156 +155 00:06:50,016 --> 00:06:53,887 with the origin story of each of our guests. So what brought you -157 +156 00:06:54,067 --> 00:06:58,416 here to the state of your Andrew developer career? -158 +157 00:06:59,146 --> 00:07:01,466 Andrew: All right. I should've expected a question like this. I -159 +158 00:07:01,466 --> 00:07:04,139 gotta work on my elevator pitch anyway. Yeah, it's sort of -160 +159 00:07:04,139 --> 00:07:06,812 a ... -161 -00:07:08,862 --> 00:07:10,062 +160 +00:07:08,862 --> 00:07:11,262 I don't know if there is a traditional path, but I would -162 -00:07:10,062 --> 00:07:11,262 -say - -163 +161 00:07:11,262 --> 00:07:15,791 -mine is non-traditional. I -- +say mine is non-traditional. I-- the first time I ever wrote code -164 +162 00:07:15,791 --> 00:07:21,822 was HTML, not even like full-blown HTML. Just tags to -165 +163 00:07:21,822 --> 00:07:25,706 make my- my MySpace page cooler. And then, like, a long time -166 +164 00:07:25,706 --> 00:07:29,590 later, -167 +165 00:07:29,862 --> 00:07:34,802 I thought I'd go to school for that. And, you know, that -168 +166 00:07:34,802 --> 00:07:37,487 -didn't go super well- [laughs] -super well for me. I -- my major +didn't go super well-- [laughs] +super well for me. I-- my major -169 +167 00:07:37,487 --> 00:07:40,172 wasn't -170 +168 00:07:40,172 --> 00:07:45,182 partying, so they kicked me out. -And, you know, I did -- you +And, you know, I did-- you -171 +169 00:07:45,182 --> 00:07:48,000 know, after sorta like, you know, trying to figure out what -172 +170 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,476 I wanted to be when I grow up for many years, I was like, you -173 +171 00:07:50,476 --> 00:07:56,221 know, I actually really liked programming and I really liked -174 +172 00:07:56,221 --> 00:07:58,471 web development, specifically. So I- I have sort of sorted -175 +173 00:07:58,471 --> 00:08:00,721 things -176 +174 00:08:00,721 --> 00:08:04,442 out. And I, actually, I went back to school again, got an -177 +175 00:08:04,442 --> 00:08:06,002 -associates degree and- and +associates degree, and- and thought, "All right. I just need -178 +176 00:08:06,002 --> 00:08:07,562 to get a -179 +177 00:08:07,562 --> 00:08:12,091 job. I need to get into the space." And I- I took an -180 +178 00:08:12,091 --> 00:08:14,551 interview for, like, a ve- a very generic you're gonna write -181 +179 00:08:14,551 --> 00:08:17,011 -code, but +code but -182 +180 00:08:17,012 --> 00:08:20,851 they didn't tell me what. And I ended up writing React Native -183 +181 00:08:20,851 --> 00:08:25,051 code. And I did not expect to be in a mobile developer space. -184 +182 00:08:25,112 --> 00:08:30,422 And I actually really enjoyed it. And that's where I've stuck -185 +183 00:08:30,692 --> 00:08:34,056 since then. And that's gotten me to here. -186 +184 00:08:35,239 --> 00:08:37,039 -Bekah: Yeah. I -- so, this is +Bekah: Yeah. I-- so, this is always been fascinating to me -187 +185 00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:38,839 because I -188 +186 00:08:38,839 --> 00:08:40,623 don't know that many React Native developers. So can you -189 +187 00:08:40,623 --> 00:08:42,407 talk a -190 +188 00:08:42,408 --> 00:08:46,300 little bit about how you ended up there? Cuz it's not, you -191 +189 00:08:46,300 --> 00:08:49,609 know, at least, I don't know a ton of people doing React Native -192 +190 00:08:49,609 --> 00:08:53,000 development. First of all, wait. Maybe let's pause [chuckles]. -193 +191 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,889 And what is -194 +192 00:08:54,889 --> 00:08:57,469 React Native development? And then answer my other question. -195 +193 00:08:58,865 --> 00:09:04,779 Andrew: All right. Yeah. So React Native is a cross-platform -196 +194 00:09:05,471 --> 00:09:12,221 framework for ... mobile apps. They are into the web space now. -197 +195 00:09:12,221 --> 00:09:16,510 So you can write all in one stack and then deploy wherever. -198 +196 00:09:17,650 --> 00:09:20,300 But yeah, the original intention is so that you can have, you -199 +197 00:09:20,300 --> 00:09:22,780 know, a single -200 +198 00:09:22,780 --> 00:09:27,341 codebase in single skill sets to be able to write Android and iOS -201 +199 00:09:27,341 --> 00:09:30,461 applications. Because native Android applications are -202 +200 00:09:30,461 --> 00:09:32,620 gonna be in Java or Kotlin and na-native iOS, that's gonna -203 +201 00:09:32,620 --> 00:09:34,779 be in -204 +202 00:09:34,780 --> 00:09:37,360 -Swift. So, rather than having, +Swift. So rather than having, you know, especially in a -205 +203 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,421 professional environment distinct teams, knowing distinct -206 +204 00:09:40,421 --> 00:09:43,841 stacks, and trying to always keep those things in sync, React -207 +205 00:09:43,841 --> 00:09:48,416 Native is one of the solutions -that was out there. At -- when +that was out there. At-- when -208 +206 00:09:48,416 --> 00:09:52,405 I first started, we started with -Native Scripts, which is just +Native Scripts which is just -209 +207 00:09:52,405 --> 00:09:53,965 another one of the options out -there, and then ended up +there and then ended up -210 +208 00:09:53,965 --> 00:09:55,525 pivoting -211 +209 00:09:55,525 --> 00:09:58,645 because of the community support -for React Native it's made by +for React Native. It's made by -212 +210 00:09:58,645 --> 00:10:02,700 Facebook. So there's just a lot of support and fu-funding behind -213 +211 00:10:02,700 --> 00:10:09,505 -it. But, yeah. It's -- at its +it. But-- yeah. It's-- at its core, it's JavaScript. But -214 +212 00:10:09,535 --> 00:10:13,166 professionally, I've always used TypeScript on top of it. -215 +213 00:10:14,152 --> 00:10:17,272 Dan: That's cool. And so, does that work out? From what I -216 +214 00:10:17,272 --> 00:10:19,162 understand, I've never really worked in it, except from -217 +215 00:10:19,162 --> 00:10:21,052 dabbling. -218 +216 00:10:21,322 --> 00:10:24,841 But from what I understand, you have the ability to do some -219 +217 00:10:25,172 --> 00:10:29,000 -native stuff, if you need to, or +native stuff if you need to or whatever, in, like, real app, -220 +218 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,700 you know, in- in non-classroom apps that you'd like the kind of -221 +219 00:10:31,700 --> 00:10:32,101 stuff -222 +220 00:10:32,101 --> 00:10:33,736 -you're actually working on. Do --- does the cross-platform +you're actually working on. Do-- +does the cross-platform -223 +221 00:10:33,736 --> 00:10:35,371 thing, -224 +222 00:10:35,491 --> 00:10:39,781 like, honestly, like, work out -really well, as oppo- like, +really well as oppo- like-- -225 +223 00:10:39,812 --> 00:10:42,200 -or do you need to -- do you end -up having to do, like, little -- +or do you need to-- do you end +up having to do, like, little-- -226 +224 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:42,812 weird little -227 +225 00:10:42,812 --> 00:10:45,500 things for- for, you know, for different platforms from time -228 +226 00:10:45,500 --> 00:10:45,990 to time? -229 +227 00:10:46,461 --> 00:10:53,067 -Andrew: Yeah. Well, it -- in my +Andrew: Yeah. Well, it-- in my experience, which I would, -230 +228 00:10:54,149 --> 00:10:55,829 -you know — for context, I've- -I've been doing this for -- I've +you know-- for context, I've- +I've been doing this for-- I've -231 +229 00:10:55,829 --> 00:10:59,639 been doing it professionally for -about three years. So, in my +about three years. So in my -232 +230 00:10:59,639 --> 00:11:01,769 experience, -233 +231 00:11:02,999 --> 00:11:07,438 rarely do we actually need to write native code. Occasionally, -234 +232 00:11:07,708 --> 00:11:11,500 -you'll f- run into, like, I'd -- +you'll f- run into, like, I'd-- we had some weird issue with -235 +233 00:11:11,500 --> 00:11:12,488 splash screens -236 +234 00:11:12,548 --> 00:11:16,239 -at my previous job, and the +at my previous job and the solution wasn't native solution. -237 +235 00:11:16,328 --> 00:11:20,019 But a lot of times you find you can just get a package that'll -238 +236 00:11:20,019 --> 00:11:25,778 -handle that for you. But, yeah. +handle that for you. But yeah. Actually, most things are -239 +237 00:11:25,778 --> 00:11:31,989 -pretty seamless. The- the -- I +pretty seamless. The- the-- I guess the overhead you get is -240 +238 00:11:34,269 --> 00:11:38,557 recognizing that since it builds across multiple platforms, it's -241 +239 00:11:38,558 --> 00:11:40,463 not always gonna, like, com- when it gets compiled, it's not -242 +240 00:11:40,463 --> 00:11:42,368 going -243 +241 00:11:42,369 --> 00:11:47,408 to behave in exactly the same -way every time. There's always +way every time. There's always, -244 +242 00:11:47,408 --> 00:11:51,249 -like little corks and sometimes +like, little corks and sometimes it's specifically on device. So -245 +243 00:11:51,249 --> 00:11:54,114 -we've got, like, we -- when- -when you write it, you -- +we've got, like, we-- when- when +you write it, you-- -246 +244 00:11:54,114 --> 00:11:56,979 frequently, -247 +245 00:11:56,979 --> 00:11:59,700 when you're delving, you're, like, using a simulator or an -248 +246 00:11:59,700 --> 00:12:04,500 -emulator. And -- but then, like, +emulator. And-- but then, like, before you roll out to -249 +247 00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:06,952 production and — as our QA -250 +248 00:12:06,953 --> 00:12:10,403 is telling me when I'm doing dev -work — to -- I need to test on +work — to-- I need to test on -251 +249 00:12:10,403 --> 00:12:13,854 physical device because that uncovers more issues that you -252 +250 00:12:13,854 --> 00:12:17,300 -don't see. So that's like the +don't see. So that's, like, the big thing with it, I guess. More -253 +251 00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:21,471 so than ... I dunno. I sort of lost the plot there [chuckles]. -254 +252 00:12:22,371 --> 00:12:23,736 Dan: More so than- than different platforms and stuff -255 +253 00:12:23,736 --> 00:12:25,101 is- is really -256 +254 00:12:25,101 --> 00:12:27,700 -just a -- if- if I can -understand what you're saying, +just a-- if- if I can understand +what you're saying, -257 +255 00:12:27,700 --> 00:12:28,431 more- more of the -258 +256 00:12:28,431 --> 00:12:32,312 fact that you're working -specifically for a -- you know, +specifically for a-- you know, -259 +257 00:12:32,312 --> 00:12:34,741 you're building an app for a device that somebody holds in -260 +258 00:12:34,741 --> 00:12:38,221 -their hand, right? And so -- as +their hand, right? And so-- as opposed to something on a screen -261 +259 00:12:38,282 --> 00:12:38,500 with a- -262 +260 00:12:38,500 --> 00:12:38,700 Andrew: Right. -263 +261 00:12:38,700 --> 00:12:40,261 Dan: -mouse or another pointer device. -264 +262 00:12:40,572 --> 00:12:40,932 Andrew: Right. -265 +263 00:12:41,341 --> 00:12:43,000 -Dan: So, yeah. That seems like +Dan: So yeah. That seems like probably- probably good advice. -266 +264 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:44,700 Probably easy to forget when -you're- when you're in the +you're-- when you're in the -267 -00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:47,700 +265 +00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:46,200 weeds, you know? Kinda been -developing for a long time on a- +developing for a long time on -268 +266 +00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:47,700 +a-- + +267 00:12:47,700 --> 00:12:51,197 on a thing, and just looking at your simulator on your computer. -269 +268 00:12:51,917 --> 00:12:53,446 -I certainly, like -- just even -on websites have that same +I certainly, like-- just even on +websites have that same -270 +269 00:12:53,446 --> 00:12:54,975 thing, -271 +270 00:12:54,976 --> 00:12:58,216 -right- right? I forget -- I look +right- right? I forget-- I look at it, you know, I see what -272 +271 00:12:58,216 --> 00:13:01,000 it looks like on the iPhone, you -know, a simulator or the -- +know, a simulator or the-- -273 +272 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,500 that- that in dev tools even, you know? Which is even another -274 +273 00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:07,500 further step removed from the actual thing, right? But it's -275 +274 00:13:07,500 --> 00:13:07,876 always -276 +275 00:13:07,876 --> 00:13:10,846 good to take a pass, you know? See what it feels like, swiping -277 +276 00:13:10,846 --> 00:13:13,667 things or- or just scrolling, -like, outlook scrolling on the +like, outlook scrolling on the-- -278 +277 00:13:14,206 --> 00:13:16,201 --- on your ... you know, for an -iPhone, at least, it has the -- +on your ... you know, for an +iPhone, at least, it has the-- -279 +278 00:13:16,201 --> 00:13:18,196 what you -280 +279 00:13:18,197 --> 00:13:21,157 call the scroll that keeps going -when you- when you flick it? +when you-- when you flick it? -281 +280 00:13:22,442 --> 00:13:24,062 I can't remember what it's called. But there's- there's a -282 +281 00:13:24,062 --> 00:13:25,922 -name for it. But like on an +name for it. But, like, on an iPhone, when you scroll, you -283 +282 00:13:25,922 --> 00:13:27,076 know, everyone who used to it, you scroll with your finger, and -284 +283 00:13:27,076 --> 00:13:30,000 you kinda flick it, and it keeps going, right? -285 +284 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:30,300 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -286 +285 00:13:30,700 --> 00:13:31,532 Dan: Which is what most -287 +286 00:13:31,532 --> 00:13:35,761 people on computers, you know, -are using -- don't have +are using-- don't have -288 +287 00:13:35,761 --> 00:13:38,461 that, right? They're using a -touchpad or a scroll bar, +touchpad or a scroll bar -289 +288 00:13:38,522 --> 00:13:40,700 -whatever, and it stops +whatever and it stops [chuckles], right? And that -290 +289 00:13:40,700 --> 00:13:41,522 experience is a little -291 +290 00:13:41,522 --> 00:13:43,111 bit different. You're gonna see -some -- you're gonna see +some-- you're gonna see -292 +291 00:13:43,111 --> 00:13:46,682 things. Especially if you have interaction going on, -293 +292 00:13:47,746 --> 00:13:50,000 -you know? It -- scroll +you know? It-- scroll interaction, things like that. -294 +293 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,427 It seems like a pretty important -step to- to take. So -- +step to- to take. So-- -295 +294 00:13:52,751 --> 00:13:53,300 Andrew: That seems- -296 +295 00:13:53,300 --> 00:13:53,500 -Dan: That's -- +Dan: That's-- -297 +296 00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:59,000 Andrew: -actually really -interesting. The -- I don't -- +interesting. The-- I don't-- -298 +297 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:00,075 -I -- is -- there +I-- is-- there -299 +298 00:14:00,076 --> 00:14:01,591 might be a specific name for it. I'm- I'm not thinking of it -300 +299 00:14:01,591 --> 00:14:03,106 -either, +either -301 +300 00:14:03,106 --> 00:14:04,636 but, like, you know, continuous scrolling or maybe something -302 +301 00:14:04,636 --> 00:14:06,166 like -303 +302 00:14:06,167 --> 00:14:10,697 -that. But yeah, that is -- it's +that. But yeah, that is-- it's interesting when developing and -304 +303 00:14:10,697 --> 00:14:14,761 -it -- there are certain things +it-- there are certain things that each platform will natively -305 +304 00:14:14,761 --> 00:14:18,825 do on its -306 +305 00:14:18,826 --> 00:14:26,417 own. And ... in my experience, I try and create apps that are -307 +306 00:14:26,417 --> 00:14:31,336 consistent. So, an iOS user, I want them to see exactly what an -308 +307 00:14:31,336 --> 00:14:33,506 Android user sees. But you also -have to be aware of -- well, +have to be aware of-- well, -309 +308 00:14:33,506 --> 00:14:35,676 what -310 +309 00:14:35,687 --> 00:14:39,362 are platform specific things that say an i- iPhone user is -311 +310 00:14:39,362 --> 00:14:43,037 going to -312 +311 00:14:43,037 --> 00:14:46,000 expect when they're in their apps, right? Navigation is one- -313 +312 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:46,300 Dan: Absolutely. -314 +313 00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:47,551 Andrew: -right? -315 +314 00:14:47,552 --> 00:14:51,451 iPhones don't have hardware -buttons for back navigation, +buttons for back navigation -316 +315 00:14:51,451 --> 00:14:52,816 -that's, like, by default. -They've got -- they usually have +that's, like-- by default. +They've got-- they usually have -317 +316 00:14:52,816 --> 00:14:54,181 a little -318 +317 00:14:54,182 --> 00:14:59,000 -back arrow in the corner. But, +back arrow in the corner. But-- yeah, to that scrolling ... -319 +318 00:15:00,991 --> 00:15:05,312 it's interesting. On those types of scrollable things in apps, -320 +319 00:15:05,761 --> 00:15:08,500 there's a really slick animation, I think, that just -321 +320 00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:09,481 kinda is native -322 +321 00:15:09,481 --> 00:15:14,000 -to iOS, that when you get to -- +to iOS, that when you get to-- it does that infinite scroll. -323 +322 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,000 And I just think it looks really smooth. And you get to the -324 +323 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:17,687 bottom of the -325 +324 00:15:17,687 --> 00:15:21,437 list, and it kinda bounces there at the bottom. And I think -326 +325 00:15:21,437 --> 00:15:22,000 it looks really good- -327 +326 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:22,300 Dan: Yeah. -328 +327 00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:24,856 Andrew: -and that just doesn't happen natively on -329 +328 00:15:24,856 --> 00:15:26,000 -Android. And it's like -- +Android. And it's like-- -330 +329 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:26,500 Dan: Hmm. -331 +330 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,000 Andrew: Hmm. -332 +331 00:15:28,700 --> 00:15:30,468 Dan: Yeah. So I looked it up at -the -- it- it's called momentum +the-- it-- it's called momentum -333 +332 00:15:30,468 --> 00:15:32,236 scrolling. -334 +333 00:15:33,197 --> 00:15:36,677 And I think that includes that scroll past that exact -335 +334 00:15:36,736 --> 00:15:40,516 behavior you're talking about. -But it -- so it's -- cuz it is +But it-- so it's-- cuz it is -336 +335 00:15:40,517 --> 00:15:41,446 cool and I've- I've, like, looked at it and tried to -337 +336 00:15:41,446 --> 00:15:42,375 recreate it a -338 +337 00:15:42,376 --> 00:15:45,197 couple of times in- in JavaScript, whatever. But it- it +338 +00:15:45,197 --> 00:15:46,726 +does have-- momentum just +going-- it's a great name for + 339 -00:15:45,197 --> 00:15:48,256 -does have -- momentum just going --- it's a great name for it. Cuz +00:15:46,726 --> 00:15:48,255 +it. Cuz 340 00:15:48,256 --> 00:15:49,861 -it's like -- it really does, you -flick it, and- and it starts +it's-- like, it really does-- +you flick it, and- and it starts 341 00:15:49,861 --> 00:15:51,466 @@ -1601,7 +1601,7 @@ fast, 342 00:15:51,466 --> 00:15:54,721 -and goes -- and it slows down, +and goes-- and it slows down, and stuff like that. Anyway. 343 @@ -1621,12 +1621,12 @@ Dan: It's cool. 346 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,611 Bekah: -week. And in my mind, I -was, +was 347 00:16:01,611 --> 00:16:05,000 -like, I want that to be my -nickname [laughs]. Like, that +like, "I want that to be my +nickname." [Laughs] Like, that 348 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,581 @@ -1635,7 +1635,7 @@ like it [laughs]. 349 00:16:09,261 --> 00:16:11,871 -Andrew: I'd say by itself, +Andrew: I'd say, by itself, momentum is a pretty cool 350 @@ -1666,12 +1666,12 @@ not sure where to go with that 356 00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:26,500 -either. So, I wanna -- I have -some minimal experience with +either. So I wanna-- I have some +minimal experience with 357 00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:28,006 -React Native. And -- +React Native. And-- 358 00:16:28,067 --> 00:16:31,486 @@ -1680,8 +1680,8 @@ ask me all the time is, "Well, 359 00:16:31,486 --> 00:16:33,586 -what's the difference? Like, how --- what's the learning curve +what's the difference? Like, +how-- what's the learning curve 360 00:16:33,586 --> 00:16:35,686 @@ -1689,7 +1689,7 @@ from 361 00:16:35,716 --> 00:16:40,517 -React to React Native?" which I +React to React Native?" Which I actually think that React Native 362 @@ -1704,13 +1704,13 @@ any thoughts on that, 364 00:16:47,537 --> 00:16:50,716 -Andrew. I just like, you know, -"Here's a view. This is -- it's +Andrew. I just, like, you know, +"Here's a view. This is-- it's 365 00:16:50,716 --> 00:16:52,907 -not a div. It's a- it's a view." -That makes sense to me. +not a div. It's a-- it's a +view." That makes sense to me. 366 00:16:53,951 --> 00:16:55,316 @@ -1728,12 +1728,12 @@ vicariously have, by doing React 369 00:17:02,022 --> 00:17:04,301 -Native. But, yeah. I went the +Native. But yeah. I went the other way. I started with React 370 00:17:04,301 --> 00:17:07,511 -Native, and I've done some +Native and I've done some dabbling in React. [Silence] I 371 @@ -1743,11 +1743,11 @@ think ... 372 00:17:13,027 --> 00:17:16,000 ye- right. The- the distinct -differences I noticed, one, is +differences I noticed, one, is, 373 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,146 -like in the JSX. So, where +like, in the JSX. So where you're using traditional HTML 374 @@ -1756,7 +1756,7 @@ type tags, you 375 00:17:21,876 --> 00:17:24,636 -just -- you don't use those in +just-- you don't use those in React Native. You use 376 @@ -1767,7 +1767,7 @@ remember seeing, like, view ... 377 00:17:34,227 --> 00:17:38,606 scroll view, text input, like, -very -- these very declarative +very-- these very declarative 378 00:17:38,606 --> 00:17:42,326 @@ -1787,11 +1787,11 @@ similar naming structures. So, 381 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,537 like, that- that stuff was super -familiar to me. But, yeah. I +familiar to me. But yeah. I 382 00:17:54,537 --> 00:17:57,821 -find, like, it -- that's -- that +find, like, it-- that's-- that kinda stuff just makes sense. 383 @@ -1800,8 +1800,8 @@ kinda stuff just makes sense. 384 00:18:01,106 --> 00:18:09,300 -think, really, the other sort of --- it's more of a -- like a +think, really, the other sort +of-- it's more of a-- like a 385 00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:13,500 @@ -1820,7 +1820,7 @@ taps, it doesn't receive clicks. 388 00:18:18,356 --> 00:18:21,700 It receives, like, swipes and, -you know, it's -- you gotta just +you know, it's-- you gotta just 389 00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:26,247 @@ -1829,12 +1829,12 @@ is very different. I think of, 390 00:18:26,247 --> 00:18:33,596 -like, our -- another member of +like, our-- another member of VC, Luis, he coincidentally 391 00:18:33,656 --> 00:18:37,323 -joined my team and -- at- at- at +joined my team and-- at- at- at work. And he had never done 392 @@ -1849,7 +1849,7 @@ fast. He had React experience. 394 00:18:45,311 --> 00:18:50,741 And he was instantly making -contributions. So I think, +contributions. So I think-- 395 00:18:51,132 --> 00:18:54,402 @@ -1858,7 +1858,7 @@ really help you with the other. 396 00:18:56,942 --> 00:18:59,552 -Bekah: Yeah. I- I -- for sure. +Bekah: Yeah. I- I-- for sure. And it's interesting because I 397 @@ -1872,7 +1872,7 @@ Native documentation once, where 399 00:19:05,882 --> 00:19:08,059 -they said, initially, there was +they said, "Initially, there was an assumption that everybody who 400 @@ -1882,7 +1882,7 @@ was 401 00:19:10,237 --> 00:19:14,227 doing React Native was coming -from React. And then, when they +from React." And then, when they 402 00:19:14,227 --> 00:19:18,700 @@ -1916,7 +1916,7 @@ for ... I would say, more of an 408 00:19:34,656 --> 00:19:40,416 entry-level learner to navigate -through the documentation, which +through the documentation which 409 00:19:40,507 --> 00:19:41,797 @@ -1925,16 +1925,16 @@ is always fascinating to me. 410 00:19:43,557 --> 00:19:45,312 Andrew: Yeah, I'm- I'm no -superhero. So, like, I read that +superhero. So, like, I read 411 00:19:45,312 --> 00:19:49,700 --- those documentation. Like, I -read that still [chuckles] on +that-- those documentation. +Like, I read that still 412 00:19:49,700 --> 00:19:51,146 -a regular basis. +[chuckles] on a regular basis. 413 00:19:51,567 --> 00:19:53,936 @@ -1952,8 +1952,8 @@ back over 416 00:19:57,957 --> 00:19:59,617 -to, like, "Well, what's the -React documentation?" Because +to like, "Well, what's the React +documentation?" Because 417 00:19:59,617 --> 00:20:01,277 @@ -1966,8 +1966,8 @@ found that definitely to be 419 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,053 -true. But yeah, it was -- it's -interesting. I -- I'm coming +true. But yeah, it was-- it's +interesting. I-- I'm coming 420 00:20:07,053 --> 00:20:10,106 @@ -1980,8 +1980,8 @@ taught us AngularJS. Whatever 422 00:20:16,376 --> 00:20:18,431 -the -- I think it's the -framework that people don't like +the-- I think it's the framework +that people don't like 423 00:20:18,431 --> 00:20:20,486 @@ -1990,7 +1990,7 @@ as much [Bekah and Dan chuckle]. 424 00:20:20,967 --> 00:20:25,287 The version of Angular. And it's -like -- it's framework +like-- it's framework 425 00:20:25,287 --> 00:20:27,926 @@ -2013,13 +2013,13 @@ framework. It kinda was like, 429 00:20:40,300 --> 00:20:44,426 -JavaScript, so I can- I can +JavaScript, so I can-- I can kinda figure this out." 430 00:20:45,284 --> 00:20:47,166 Dan: I love that mentality. -That, you know, just being -- +That, you know, just being-- 431 00:20:47,166 --> 00:20:49,048 @@ -2028,7 +2028,7 @@ just, like, 432 00:20:49,049 --> 00:20:50,444 the- the confidence to, you -know, be able to- be able to +know, be able to-- be able to 433 00:20:50,444 --> 00:20:51,839 @@ -2046,7 +2046,7 @@ talking about that with Roger, I 436 00:20:57,869 --> 00:21:00,000 -think, [chuckles] on the last- +think, [chuckles] on the last-- on the last podcast recording. 437 @@ -2056,16 +2056,16 @@ We ... 438 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,000 yeah. We're talking about, like, -learning and- and- and how that +learning and- and- and how 439 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,294 --- that's one of those things -once you, like, get some job +that-- that's one of those +things once you, like, get some 440 00:21:07,294 --> 00:21:08,499 -experience, +job experience, 441 00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:11,442 @@ -2085,7 +2085,7 @@ black box, you know, that you 444 00:21:18,492 --> 00:21:20,407 don't really know anything -about, not -- like, once you've, +about, not-- like, once you've 445 00:21:20,407 --> 00:21:22,322 @@ -2108,8 +2108,8 @@ concepts transfer, you 449 00:21:32,282 --> 00:21:34,300 -know? Roger was saying -- -they're like, "All you really +know? Roger was saying-- they're +like, "All you really 450 00:21:34,300 --> 00:21:34,772 @@ -2127,7 +2127,7 @@ any language." Sounds like that. 453 00:21:42,393 --> 00:21:43,533 -Which I agree- which I agreed +Which I agree-- which I agreed with, you know? In- in 454 @@ -2136,7 +2136,7 @@ principle, 455 00:21:44,673 --> 00:21:47,252 -it's -- they're all- they're all +it's-- they're all-- they're all kinda doing a lot of the same 456 @@ -2146,7 +2146,7 @@ stuff. So, it's cool. 457 00:21:48,917 --> 00:21:51,377 Bekah: I'm- I'm gonna shift the -conversation just a little bit, +conversation just a little bit 458 00:21:51,377 --> 00:21:52,742 @@ -2217,7 +2217,7 @@ very high. So I took a local 472 00:22:43,884 --> 00:22:50,500 job. And, you know, compensation -was ... meh. And -- but I was +was ... meh. And-- but I was 473 00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:51,970 @@ -2236,7 +2236,7 @@ to get career growth, and- and 476 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,519 then the pandemic started. I was -at -- I've been doing it a year +at-- I've been doing it a year 477 00:23:04,519 --> 00:23:07,078 @@ -2245,7 +2245,7 @@ and 478 00:23:07,079 --> 00:23:10,124 a half, almost two years at that -point. No. I don't know what -- +point. No. I don't know what-- 479 00:23:10,124 --> 00:23:14,000 @@ -2263,12 +2263,12 @@ libraries for that. 482 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,470 [Bekah and Dan chuckle] But ... -I -- and, yeah. Then- +I-- and-- yeah. Then- 483 00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:24,930 -then the pandemic started, and -my company was immediately like, +then the pandemic started and my +company was immediately like, 484 00:23:25,349 --> 00:23:30,000 @@ -2281,13 +2281,13 @@ office that day [chuckles] 486 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,309 -and I didn't look back. I didn't --- I was- I was stoked to +and I didn't look back. I +didn't-- I was-- I was stoked to 487 00:23:35,309 --> 00:23:41,444 come work from home. Because I -am -- I'm legally blind. So, +am-- I'm legally blind. So, 488 00:23:41,894 --> 00:23:46,500 @@ -2307,7 +2307,7 @@ know, get, like, a ride share or 491 00:23:58,559 --> 00:24:01,139 something. I mean, my work was -six miles away. I -- maybe +six miles away. I-- maybe 492 00:24:01,139 --> 00:24:03,719 @@ -2315,8 +2315,8 @@ somebody 493 00:24:03,779 --> 00:24:09,123 -can bike that every day if -- -I'm just not for it. I'm- I'm +can bike that every day if-- I'm +just not for it. I'm- I'm 494 00:24:09,123 --> 00:24:11,700 @@ -2333,8 +2333,8 @@ Bekah: No, that was great. 497 00:24:13,653 --> 00:24:16,547 -Andrew: So, yeah. So then, it -- -and- and in -- to that same +Andrew: So, yeah. So then, it-- +and- and in-- to that same 498 00:24:16,547 --> 00:24:19,441 @@ -2352,7 +2352,7 @@ ergonomics of my setup, you 501 00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:33,000 -know? I have -- my monitors are +know? I have-- my monitors are mounted. So, you know, I- I have 502 @@ -2361,7 +2361,7 @@ mounted. So, you know, I- I have 503 00:24:34,232 --> 00:24:38,432 -monitors. They're like a very +monitors. They're, like, a very modest size, even maybe on 504 @@ -2381,11 +2381,11 @@ nice, you know, 90 degree in my 507 00:24:48,572 --> 00:24:50,327 -elbows, +elbows but 508 00:24:50,327 --> 00:24:54,258 -but I can still see. And like, I +I can still see. And, like, I just can't do that in an office. 509 @@ -2395,7 +2395,7 @@ it was, like, really good for 510 00:24:57,990 --> 00:25:00,809 -me. And -- but I- I quickly +me. And-- but I- I quickly noticed, like, especially when 511 @@ -2405,2504 +2405,2521 @@ you took 512 00:25:03,628 --> 00:25:07,888 away, like, the being at work -water cooler type stuff, you +watercooler type stuff, you 513 -00:25:07,888 --> 00:25:11,068 +00:25:07,888 --> 00:25:09,478 know, spending time with -coworkers, it's like, I- I don't +coworkers, it's, like, I- I 514 +00:25:09,478 --> 00:25:11,068 +don't + +515 00:25:11,068 --> 00:25:17,068 like this company that much and -I'm not -- I'm very alone. And +I'm not-- I'm very alone. And -515 +516 00:25:17,068 --> 00:25:20,608 so, I needed a new job. I -started looking, and I was just +started looking and I was just -516 +517 00:25:20,608 --> 00:25:24,148 -not -- like, +not-- like, -517 +518 00:25:24,179 --> 00:25:27,328 even with two years experience, -right? I was- I was taking +right? I was-- I was taking -518 +519 00:25:27,328 --> 00:25:29,665 interviews and they wanted people with more experience -519 +520 00:25:29,665 --> 00:25:32,002 than -520 +521 00:25:32,003 --> 00:25:36,564 me or ... yeah. I- I just wasn't it. Whatever it was they were -521 +522 00:25:36,564 --> 00:25:40,763 looking for, I wasn't it. And I -thought, well, okay. So +thought, "Well, okay." So -522 +523 00:25:40,763 --> 00:25:46,044 everybody tells me, I remember in school and just throughout my -523 +524 00:25:46,044 --> 00:25:48,000 life, they're like, "Oh, it's about who you know, not what -524 +525 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,300 you know. And you should do networking." And- and I thought, -525 +526 00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:57,700 "I am an introvert. So, no, thank you. I don't want to do -526 +527 00:25:57,700 --> 00:25:59,094 that." And I was -527 +528 00:25:59,094 --> 00:26:01,494 -listening to a podcast — a- a +listening to a podcast-- a- a tech podcast. I can't remember -528 +529 00:26:01,494 --> 00:26:03,894 which -529 +530 00:26:03,894 --> 00:26:06,339 one now. But actually, you were on it Bekah. And you had talked -530 +531 00:26:06,339 --> 00:26:08,784 about -531 +532 00:26:08,784 --> 00:26:12,594 -Virtual Coffee and I was like, -"Okay, that sounds different. +Virtual Coffee, and I was like, +"Okay, that sounds different." -532 +533 00:26:12,594 --> 00:26:14,173 -That sounds like, you know, it's -networking, right? But it's- +That sounds, like, you know, +it's networking, right? But -533 +534 00:26:14,173 --> 00:26:15,752 -it's not +it's- it's not -534 +535 00:26:17,263 --> 00:26:20,443 traditionally what I think of. And it's a community of people -535 +536 00:26:20,443 --> 00:26:23,503 doing the same thing that I'm -doing, and I need that." And I +doing, and I need that. And I -536 +537 00:26:23,503 --> 00:26:26,563 am -537 +538 00:26:26,564 --> 00:26:30,493 so glad I listened to whatever that podcast was [laughs]. -538 +539 00:26:30,729 --> 00:26:33,429 Bekah: Yeah. Maybe the React -Native podcast. +Native Podcast. -539 +540 00:26:33,713 --> 00:26:35,648 Andrew: It's very possible. -Yeah. And- and it's just -- it's +Yeah. And- and it's just-- it's -540 +541 00:26:35,648 --> 00:26:37,583 struck -541 +542 00:26:37,583 --> 00:26:39,355 -me, and I'm like, "Okay. I'm +me and I'm like, "Okay. I'm gonna join this community." And -542 +543 00:26:39,355 --> 00:26:41,127 I did -543 +544 00:26:41,128 --> 00:26:46,000 that, and ... yeah. Ever since, like, I joined VC, I got this, -544 +545 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,158 like, sense -545 +546 00:26:47,159 --> 00:26:51,959 of self-confidence that I really needed, I think, for -546 +547 00:26:52,048 --> 00:27:00,818 finding a job outside of where I live and ... and- and a -547 +548 00:27:00,818 --> 00:27:06,219 community of, like, other people -working to better themselves, +working to better themselves — -548 +549 00:27:07,064 --> 00:27:09,700 technically or even non-technically. It's the thing -549 +550 00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:10,094 I love -550 +551 00:27:10,094 --> 00:27:11,819 -about this community, too, is -- +about this community, too, is-- it's not just about the work -551 +552 00:27:11,819 --> 00:27:13,544 that we -552 +553 00:27:13,544 --> 00:27:19,723 -do. So that was -- Virtual +do. So that was-- Virtual Coffee, it was the launch -553 +554 00:27:19,723 --> 00:27:23,228 platform that got me to the job that I got. It actually, like, -554 +555 00:27:23,228 --> 00:27:26,733 i-in -555 +556 00:27:26,733 --> 00:27:31,304 actual tangible terms, I got my job through a different avenue. -556 +557 00:27:31,753 --> 00:27:36,884 But I think, sort of the confidence in myself that I -557 +558 00:27:36,884 --> 00:27:46,374 gained the, "Oh, I- I had, like, access to people who could -558 +559 00:27:46,374 --> 00:27:50,183 -help me," you know? "How do I- +help me," you know? "How do I-- how do I present myself at -559 +560 00:27:50,183 --> 00:27:55,574 interviews? How do I get better at that? How do I answer X -560 +561 00:27:55,604 --> 00:27:58,700 coding question?" And that all led me to, I think, finding -561 +562 00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:03,500 success in finding a job and finding an equitable job, right? -562 +563 00:28:03,500 --> 00:28:04,500 Like, so I was- -563 +564 00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:04,700 Bekah: Mm. -564 +565 00:28:04,700 --> 00:28:07,852 -Andrew: -like, I -- like, I -opened with, you know? I was -- +Andrew: -like, I-- like, I +opened with-- you know, I was-- -565 +566 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,681 -I had a hard- I had +I had a hard-- I had -566 +567 00:28:10,682 --> 00:28:14,103 limited options, locally, you know? Limited tech stacks, -567 +568 00:28:14,133 --> 00:28:19,682 limited pay, limited benefits, and I was able to get a fair -568 +569 00:28:19,682 --> 00:28:23,837 compensation by being able to -look elsewhere and being +look elsewhere, and being -569 +570 00:28:23,837 --> 00:28:26,508 confident enough to look elsewhere, and say, "I am worth -570 +571 00:28:26,928 --> 00:28:27,228 this." -571 +572 00:28:28,635 --> 00:28:30,495 Bekah: Thanks so much for sharing that. I ... really -572 +573 00:28:30,495 --> 00:28:32,355 appreciate it. And I -573 +574 00:28:32,355 --> 00:28:33,945 appreciate everything that you're doing at Virtual Coffee. -574 +575 00:28:33,945 --> 00:28:35,535 And so, -575 +576 00:28:35,746 --> 00:28:39,645 you know, we're happy to have you here no matter what, but -576 +577 00:28:39,645 --> 00:28:41,505 especially, you're one of our monthly challenge team leads. -577 +578 00:28:41,505 --> 00:28:43,365 -And +And so, -578 +579 00:28:43,365 --> 00:28:49,230 -so, I- I feel like you're really --- you've really invested in the +I- I feel like you're really-- +you've really invested in the -579 +580 00:28:49,230 --> 00:28:51,750 community and supporting other people to find that- that -580 +581 00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:54,270 feeling -581 +582 00:28:54,270 --> 00:28:57,871 of connectedness and community that seems pretty important to -582 +583 00:28:57,871 --> 00:29:00,810 your journey. Do you wanna talk a little bit about what you do -583 +584 00:29:00,901 --> 00:29:03,871 as monthly challenge co-team lead? -584 +585 00:29:05,131 --> 00:29:07,802 -Andrew: Yeah, for sure. For me- +Andrew: Yeah, for sure. For me-- for me doing that, that is ... -585 +586 00:29:07,802 --> 00:29:10,473 right, -586 +587 00:29:10,474 --> 00:29:14,045 that is my opportunity to give -back to Virtual Coffee. And in +back to Virtual Coffee, and in -587 +588 00:29:14,045 --> 00:29:17,734 -terms of, I got so much out of +terms of I got so much out of Virtual Coffee. And it feels -588 +589 00:29:19,055 --> 00:29:22,414 like I can't give back to this community what it gave to me. -589 +590 00:29:23,075 --> 00:29:27,341 -And I think it's -- I feel -- I +And I think it's-- I feel-- I just feel compelled to- to, -590 +591 00:29:27,341 --> 00:29:31,607 like, -591 +592 00:29:31,607 --> 00:29:33,962 volunteer and- and help. Help others get what I got. Because -592 +593 00:29:33,962 --> 00:29:36,317 my life, -593 +594 00:29:36,347 --> 00:29:39,167 like, from before Virtual Coffee, from me sitting at my -594 +595 00:29:39,167 --> 00:29:41,987 desk at -595 +596 00:29:41,988 --> 00:29:46,652 that last job to where I am today ... oh, my gosh. I- I- I -596 +597 00:29:46,652 --> 00:29:51,316 have -597 +598 00:29:51,317 --> 00:29:54,120 grown so much and I'm so happy with where I've ended up. In a -598 +599 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,923 lot -599 +600 00:29:56,923 --> 00:29:59,472 of, you know, there's a lot of -influences in how that happened, +influences in how that happened -600 +601 00:29:59,472 --> 00:30:03,073 but I recognize the part that- that Virtual Coffee played in -601 +602 00:30:03,073 --> 00:30:05,052 that. And so, me doing the monthly challenges is giving -602 +603 00:30:05,052 --> 00:30:07,031 back to -603 +604 00:30:07,032 --> 00:30:09,672 -that. And so, yeah. At -- for- -for Virtual Coffee, we'd, like +that. And so-- yeah. At-- for- +for Virtual Coffee, we'd, like-- -604 +605 00:30:09,672 --> 00:30:12,312 --- I mean, +I mean, -605 +606 00:30:12,313 --> 00:30:15,700 obviously, you two know this -[chuckles]. But w-we -- so, we +[chuckles]. But w-we-- so, we -606 +607 00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:16,992 do a monthly challenge -607 +608 00:30:17,022 --> 00:30:24,928 and that will consist of ... we have 12-ish? Or I think a little -608 +609 00:30:24,928 --> 00:30:28,300 bit more, like, maybe 13 topics that we will cover throughout -609 +610 00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:32,518 -the year, and assign them to a +the year and assign them to a month. And that's what we'll -610 +611 00:30:32,518 --> 00:30:34,903 focus on. And folks in the community are free to -611 +612 00:30:34,903 --> 00:30:37,288 participate -612 +613 00:30:37,288 --> 00:30:44,518 in those challenges as a way to, you know, expand their own -613 +614 00:30:44,548 --> 00:30:50,593 -skill set or to -- as their own +skill set or to-- as their own opportunity for growth. So, for -614 +615 00:30:50,593 --> 00:30:54,312 -this upcoming month, for April, -we are doing -- we are +this upcoming month — for April +— we are doing-- we are -615 +616 00:30:54,312 --> 00:30:58,031 focusing on -616 +617 00:30:58,992 --> 00:31:06,853 jobs — on the job search and job preparation. And so, like, what- -617 +618 00:31:07,603 --> 00:31:10,003 what I do for that and what that -will look like, I guess, is it +will look like, I guess, is, -618 +619 00:31:10,003 --> 00:31:12,403 --- each +it-- each -619 +620 00:31:12,432 --> 00:31:13,492 challenge looks a little bit -different, but there are some, +different but there are some, -620 +621 00:31:13,492 --> 00:31:14,552 like, -621 +622 00:31:14,742 --> 00:31:21,232 -commonalities in -- so, we- we +commonalities in-- so, we- we like to try and engage with the -622 +623 00:31:21,232 --> 00:31:26,333 community throughout the challenge, and provide -623 +624 00:31:27,413 --> 00:31:33,503 resources, and, basically, support for them to ... to- to -624 +625 00:31:33,503 --> 00:31:39,593 grow. And ... -625 +626 00:31:40,613 --> 00:31:48,403 so I- I coordinate and help, like, get the documentation and -626 +627 00:31:48,403 --> 00:31:51,148 stuff that we need to set up in order to make that magic happen -627 +628 00:31:51,148 --> 00:31:53,893 [chuckles]. -628 +629 00:31:54,163 --> 00:31:58,423 I, you know, I work with people who want to be involved. -629 +630 00:31:58,423 --> 00:32:01,992 Like, "Hey, do you wanna run, like, meetings associated with -630 +631 00:32:01,992 --> 00:32:04,500 this challenge? Or do you want to try and hype people up about -631 +632 00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:07,000 this challenge? Or do you wanna help me write documentation -632 +633 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:07,662 about this -633 +634 00:32:07,663 --> 00:32:10,903 challenge?" So I try and rally around that kinda stuff. -634 +635 00:32:12,748 --> 00:32:14,442 Yeah, I don't do that alone. Yeah. As- as you alluded to, -635 +636 00:32:14,442 --> 00:32:16,136 Bekah, -636 +637 00:32:16,137 --> 00:32:20,847 I do that with, like, my co-lead -on that is Aurelie. And that +on-- that is Aurelie. And that -637 +638 00:32:20,847 --> 00:32:26,817 is so wonderful that we co-lead that together because, you know, -638 +639 00:32:26,817 --> 00:32:28,812 it's a volunteer position, right? It's we do what we can to -639 +640 00:32:28,812 --> 00:32:30,807 give -640 +641 00:32:30,807 --> 00:32:36,000 -back, but we also do have jobs +back but we also do have jobs and families. And so sometimes, -641 +642 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,700 we can't do as much as we'd like to, and it's nice to have -642 +643 00:32:39,700 --> 00:32:42,784 somebody else there to help balance that. -643 +644 00:32:42,784 --> 00:32:44,358 -Bekah: I keep- I keep hitting +Bekah: I keep-- I keep hitting the mute and unmute button, -644 +645 00:32:44,358 --> 00:32:45,932 like, multiple -645 +646 00:32:45,933 --> 00:32:47,966 times. I don't know what's going on. [Chuckles] Extra clicky -646 +647 00:32:47,966 --> 00:32:49,999 today. -647 +648 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,148 Sorry. Yes! That is a great overview of what our monthly -648 +649 00:32:53,148 --> 00:32:55,412 challenges -649 +650 00:32:55,413 --> 00:32:59,614 are. And they've been a lot of fun, I think, working through -650 +651 00:32:59,614 --> 00:33:03,473 them. And like you said, we've -had ... I think at least 13, and +had ... I think at least 13 and -651 +652 00:33:03,473 --> 00:33:06,700 we're kind of iterating on that the second year around, trying -652 +653 00:33:06,700 --> 00:33:10,193 to figure out how things work. And one of the great things I -653 +654 00:33:10,193 --> 00:33:14,034 love to see is how many people are helping each other through -654 +655 00:33:14,034 --> 00:33:18,084 that process, you know? Or continuing. We had month of -655 +656 00:33:18,084 --> 00:33:20,700 pairing a couple of months ago, and somebody messaged me -656 +657 00:33:20,700 --> 00:33:21,700 recently, and said, -657 +658 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,134 "I- I really loved being able to pair with other people and I -658 +659 00:33:25,134 --> 00:33:29,213 wanna keep that going." And those are the kind of stories -659 +660 00:33:29,213 --> 00:33:32,395 -that really ... I didn't -- make +that really ... I didn't-- make my heart feel happy. I'm not -660 +661 00:33:32,395 --> 00:33:35,577 sure [chuckles] -661 +662 00:33:35,578 --> 00:33:40,078 how else to put it. Because there's this- this love of the -662 +663 00:33:40,078 --> 00:33:44,098 community that develops through these things. And, you know, for -663 +664 00:33:44,098 --> 00:33:45,958 us, we haven't made a competition out of it. Although -664 +665 00:33:45,958 --> 00:33:47,818 -we have -- we've +we have-- we've -665 +666 00:33:47,818 --> 00:33:51,300 -had leaderboards and stuff, but +had leaderboards and stuff but it's not like, "Oh, it's a race -666 +667 00:33:51,300 --> 00:33:55,300 to the top of the leaderboard." It's just cool to be able to see -667 +668 00:33:55,300 --> 00:34:00,118 what everybody's doing and how they're doing it. And I'm- I'm -668 +669 00:34:00,118 --> 00:34:03,568 really excited as we're going into this second year of monthly -669 +670 00:34:03,568 --> 00:34:07,378 -challenges, with this team of -people, to see all of the +challenges with this team of +people to see all of the -670 +671 00:34:07,378 --> 00:34:10,588 connections that are continually -made and how we can keep +made, and how we can keep -671 +672 00:34:10,588 --> 00:34:11,699 supporting each other. -672 +673 00:34:13,268 --> 00:34:14,513 Andrew: It's really hard to say. Like, all I want to say about -673 +674 00:34:14,513 --> 00:34:15,758 it I kept -674 +675 00:34:16,028 --> 00:34:20,500 getting, like, lost in my own thoughts. But, yes. So some -675 +676 00:34:20,500 --> 00:34:22,599 -of the challenges that like -- +of the challenges that, like-- so we did a- a writing challenge -676 +677 00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:24,698 in -677 +678 00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:34,300 -November, where we- we supported +November where we- we supported each other members in, like, in- -678 +679 00:34:34,300 --> 00:34:38,000 in writing blog posts or putting -out content, and right there +out content and right there -679 +680 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:38,798 was, like, -680 +681 00:34:38,798 --> 00:34:42,278 a leaderboard individually. You could see who put in how many -681 +682 00:34:42,278 --> 00:34:46,000 words. But that wasn't the -challenge. The challenge was to +challenge. The challenge was -682 +683 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,148 --- like, the number of challenge -was we had a goal to hit. How +to-- like, the number of +challenge was we had a goal to -683 +684 00:34:49,148 --> 00:34:51,128 -many -- c-can +hit. How many-- c-can we -684 +685 00:34:51,128 --> 00:34:53,289 -we hit this many words? I think, +hit this many words? I think-- was it a hundred thousand? -685 +686 00:34:54,067 --> 00:34:56,797 Bekah: I think it ended up being over that, right? Did we hit the -686 +687 00:34:56,797 --> 00:35:01,706 -one 20, Dan? Do you remember? +one twenty, Dan? Do you +remember? -687 +688 00:35:02,516 --> 00:35:03,700 Dan: Yeah ... [Bekah chuckles] I just looked at it. I'm trying to -688 +689 00:35:03,700 --> 00:35:04,716 remember. I- I, like, -689 +690 00:35:04,746 --> 00:35:06,500 literally looked at it yesterday -cuz I was- I was doing this. One +cuz I was-- I was doing this. -690 +691 00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:07,447 -second. I can look it up really -quick. But -- +One second. I can look it up +really quick. But-- -691 +692 00:35:07,501 --> 00:35:09,472 -Bekah: Yeah. Our challenge was -like 50,000 and we blew it out +Bekah: Yeah. Our challenge was, +like, 50,000 and we blew it out -692 +693 00:35:09,472 --> 00:35:10,000 of the water. -693 +694 00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:11,700 -Dan: Yeah, we blast- yeah, we -blast the best that in like a +Dan: Yeah, we blast-- yeah, we +blast the best that in, like, a -694 +695 00:35:11,700 --> 00:35:13,000 week, I think. -695 +696 00:35:13,317 --> 00:35:14,300 -Andrew: Yeah. It was -- +Andrew: Yeah. It was-- -696 +697 00:35:14,782 --> 00:35:18,112 -Dan: I see. Well, we got to 125 --- over 125,000. So -- +Dan: I see. Well, we got to +125-- over 125,000. So-- -697 +698 00:35:18,112 --> 00:35:19,000 Bekah: Woop woop! -698 +699 00:35:19,300 --> 00:35:19,500 Dan: Yeah. -699 +700 00:35:19,700 --> 00:35:20,567 Andrew: Absolutely crazy. -700 +701 00:35:20,692 --> 00:35:21,322 Dan: It was pretty dope. -701 +702 00:35:21,947 --> 00:35:24,976 Andrew: And we had individual contributors there, right? Who -702 +703 00:35:24,976 --> 00:35:29,447 they wrote a lot of words and it -was amazing. And -- but we also +was amazing. And-- but we also -703 +704 00:35:29,447 --> 00:35:31,967 succeeded together in crushing that goal. And I think on -704 +705 00:35:31,967 --> 00:35:34,487 another -705 +706 00:35:34,487 --> 00:35:38,447 individual basis, I think people succeeded in just writing -706 +707 00:35:38,447 --> 00:35:39,800 something for the first time. -707 +708 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:40,300 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -708 +709 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,000 Andrew: As- as someone who runs -the challenge, I don't -- I've- +the challenge, I don't-- I've- -709 +710 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,351 I've tried to balance me participating -710 +711 00:35:47,351 --> 00:35:50,276 and running it. And I just -can't- I can't do well at both. +can't-- I can't do well at both. -711 +712 00:35:50,276 --> 00:35:57,000 -But that's -- I do love -supporting that and so -- right. +But that's-- I do love +supporting that and so-- right. -712 +713 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,342 Giving somebody an avenue to do something for the first time, to -713 +714 00:36:00,342 --> 00:36:01,691 write a blog post for the first time. You see a lot of -714 +715 00:36:01,691 --> 00:36:03,040 developers -715 +716 00:36:03,041 --> 00:36:05,216 do that. And if you want to do it, it can be super -716 +717 00:36:05,216 --> 00:36:07,391 intimidating. -717 +718 00:36:09,311 --> 00:36:12,700 Being on a podcast can be super intimidating [chuckles]. And so -718 +719 00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:13,721 when you see -719 +720 00:36:13,722 --> 00:36:16,000 other people doing it and you have that support, you're able -720 +721 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:16,700 to- to -721 +722 00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:20,300 -do that kind of stuff. And -- -but I wanted to highlight too, +do that kind of stuff. And-- but +I wanted to highlight, too, -722 +723 00:36:20,300 --> 00:36:20,620 like, one -723 +724 00:36:20,621 --> 00:36:23,681 -of the challenges -- one of the +of the challenges-- one of the monthly challenges we did that I -724 +725 00:36:23,681 --> 00:36:29,800 -really liked, I think it was -- +really liked, I think it was-- we did it for December. And -725 +726 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,500 I- I can't remember what we called it. But it was about- -726 +727 00:36:33,500 --> 00:36:34,300 Bekah: Yes. -727 +728 00:36:34,300 --> 00:36:35,097 Andrew: -it was about -728 +729 00:36:35,097 --> 00:36:42,000 -doing, like, your own ... what- +doing, like, your own ... what-- what's your passion outside of -729 +730 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:43,165 your job? -730 +731 00:36:43,197 --> 00:36:46,106 What's your passion outside of the technical skill set you have -731 +732 00:36:46,137 --> 00:36:48,806 that brought you to Virtual Coffee? Let's talk about that. -732 +733 00:36:48,806 --> 00:36:53,266 Let's celebrate that. There was really cool stuff. In- in -733 +734 00:36:53,277 --> 00:36:57,536 music, we had people sharing their own musical talents. I -734 +735 00:36:57,536 --> 00:37:00,777 -think that was Jessica, who +think that was Jessica who shared some cool videos in that. -735 +736 00:37:00,777 --> 00:37:05,800 We saw tons of yarn work, a lot of knitters- -736 +737 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:06,000 Bekah: Yes! -737 +738 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,286 Andrew: -in VC. -738 +739 00:37:07,606 --> 00:37:09,000 Bekah: And new knitters too! Some people just- -739 +740 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:09,300 Andrew: Yeah. -740 +741 00:37:09,100 --> 00:37:10,000 Bekah: -just took it up. -741 +742 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:10,726 Andrew: Right. -742 +743 00:37:10,726 --> 00:37:12,257 Bekah: It was the creative community challenge. -743 +744 00:37:12,476 --> 00:37:16,197 Andrew: Yes. So, right, then. So even in that, like, people were -744 +745 00:37:16,197 --> 00:37:20,700 inspiring other people to pick up new things. And I think I -745 +746 00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:27,251 love that about VC is getting to share that kind of stuff too. I -746 +747 00:37:27,251 --> 00:37:29,800 get to talk about programming all day at work. -747 +748 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:30,300 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -748 +749 00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:32,021 Andrew: Sometimes, I just -749 +750 00:37:32,021 --> 00:37:36,521 wanna talk to people about the things that I like to do. Like, -750 +751 00:37:36,521 --> 00:37:40,300 for creative community, I think I built a 3D puzzle. And I had a -751 +752 00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:43,722 lot of fun, and it was very zen, and not stressful at all. -752 +753 00:37:44,559 --> 00:37:46,300 Bekah: Yeah, I think that's so important. And I'm glad that you -753 +754 00:37:46,300 --> 00:37:48,655 -brought that one up. Because it- -it's something that more and +brought that one up. Because +it-- it's something that more -754 +755 00:37:48,655 --> 00:37:51,010 -more I'm +and more I'm -755 +756 00:37:51,010 --> 00:37:53,607 finding that I- I need to take a break from coding things. -756 +757 00:37:53,607 --> 00:37:56,204 Because -757 +758 00:37:56,204 --> 00:38:00,405 it's just constant coding or community. And I love it. But I -758 +759 00:38:00,405 --> 00:38:04,005 do find that my brain is sometimes just exhausted and -759 +760 00:38:04,005 --> 00:38:06,404 anxious because I'm overwhelmed with all of these things that -760 +761 00:38:08,804 --> 00:38:11,500 I'm doing and trying to learn. And you're never gonna learn it -761 +762 00:38:11,500 --> 00:38:12,585 all [chuckles]. -762 +763 00:38:12,585 --> 00:38:17,300 You're never going to be an expert at every single thing. -763 +764 00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:21,000 And I think that really, for me, -it's about, like, okay. I -- +it's about, like-- okay. I-- -764 +765 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,700 I've learned how to do these -things, but I need to make space +things but I need to make space -765 +766 00:38:24,700 --> 00:38:26,549 for- for other -766 +767 00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:32,010 things that don't feel productive, that help me to -767 +768 00:38:32,010 --> 00:38:34,700 learn how to relax, which I- I hear it's a thing that some -768 +769 00:38:34,700 --> 00:38:38,624 people do. [Laughs] I'm still trying to figure that one out. -769 +770 00:38:38,624 --> 00:38:39,000 Dan: What? -770 +771 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,940 -Bekah: [Laughs] And- and -- so I +Bekah: [Laughs] And- and-- so I think -771 +772 00:38:41,940 --> 00:38:45,420 it is initially Kirk's idea that monthly challenges should have -772 +773 00:38:45,420 --> 00:38:50,579 -four quarters and one quarter -- +four quarters and one quarter-- one month per quarter should be -773 +774 00:38:50,579 --> 00:38:52,604 devoted to non-tech things. And we've even been, like, doing -774 +775 00:38:52,604 --> 00:38:54,629 more -775 +776 00:38:54,630 --> 00:38:59,700 non-technical topics in Virtual -Coffee, just to say like, "Hey." +Coffee, just to say like, "Hey. -776 +777 00:38:59,700 --> 00:39:00,000 -That is okay. +That is okay." -777 +778 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,800 One- one time, we talked about, like, cleaning products for -778 +779 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,344 almost the entire time. I'm not good at cleaning and I don't -779 +780 00:39:06,344 --> 00:39:07,888 like -780 +781 00:39:07,889 --> 00:39:11,010 it, but I think I'm fascinated that there are all these tools -781 +782 00:39:11,010 --> 00:39:13,155 out there that I don't know exist because I avoid knowing -782 +783 00:39:13,155 --> 00:39:15,300 anything -783 +784 00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:18,700 about it [chuckles], but it was really a great conversation. -784 +785 00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:22,409 Like, "Oh, okay. Now- now I know this adult thing [laughs]." -785 +786 00:39:24,130 --> 00:39:28,889 -Andrew: Yeah. We are the -- in -Virtual Coffee, and in any +Andrew: Yeah. We are the-- in +Virtual Coffee — and in any -786 +787 00:39:28,889 --> 00:39:31,274 -community, you form, I think, -we're all- we're all diverse +community — you form-- I think, +we're all-- we're all diverse -787 +788 00:39:31,274 --> 00:39:33,659 people -788 +789 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,929 with diverse interests. In- in the case of Virtual Coffee, -789 +790 00:39:36,929 --> 00:39:38,700 we're brought together by one common interest. -790 +791 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:39,500 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -791 +792 00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:42,539 Andrew: But we get to learn -792 +793 00:39:42,989 --> 00:39:47,369 from each other about all this other stuff. And I think that's -793 +794 00:39:47,849 --> 00:39:49,469 one of my favorite things about VC. -794 +795 00:39:51,014 --> 00:39:53,069 -Bekah: Same. Same. And I -- so +Bekah: Same. Same. And I-- so I've been doing a lot of -795 +796 00:39:53,069 --> 00:39:55,124 research on -796 +797 00:39:55,125 --> 00:39:57,824 communities, and community building, and there's different -797 +798 00:39:57,824 --> 00:40:02,500 categories that communities are often grouped into. And I kind -798 +799 00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:07,815 of love that. I don't feel like we really fit into one category. -799 +800 00:40:07,844 --> 00:40:12,405 Yes, we are here because we're all interested in tech. But if -800 +801 00:40:12,405 --> 00:40:15,824 you look at the conversations among people and the connections -801 +802 00:40:15,824 --> 00:40:20,039 that are created, most of the deep connections are not because -802 +803 00:40:20,039 --> 00:40:21,959 we're here for tech. It's because we relate to each other -803 +804 00:40:21,959 --> 00:40:23,879 on a -804 +805 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:25,680 different level. And that comes -with, you know, like bringing +with, you know, like, bringing -805 +806 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:27,480 who -806 +807 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,110 we are and our interests outside of tech into the conversation. -807 +808 00:40:31,289 --> 00:40:33,404 Because that- that, to some extent, allows for more -808 +809 00:40:33,404 --> 00:40:35,519 vulnerability and -809 +810 00:40:35,519 --> 00:40:39,029 openness to happen. And I- I just love how great that is and -810 +811 00:40:39,029 --> 00:40:42,539 -how -- +how-- -811 +812 00:40:43,230 --> 00:40:47,500 it's something that- that we work hard to kinda preserve as -812 +813 00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:48,480 part of our community. -813 +814 00:40:49,358 --> 00:40:51,698 Andrew: Yeah, very much. I- I keep thinking of, like, all -814 +815 00:40:51,698 --> 00:40:54,038 these -815 +816 00:40:54,068 --> 00:40:59,081 instances of my interactions with other community members. So -816 +817 00:40:59,192 --> 00:41:01,041 I keep name-dropping them. And if that ends up being an issue, -817 +818 00:41:01,041 --> 00:41:02,890 we -818 +819 00:41:02,891 --> 00:41:05,000 -can just throw like a clucking +can just throw, like, a clucking chicken sound or something all -819 +820 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,581 over these names [unintelligible]. -820 +821 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,000 Bekah: [Laughs] Name-drop them all. -821 +822 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,000 Andrew: But Kirk and I will have -Zoom calls sometimes. Where, +Zoom calls sometimes where, -822 +823 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:17,291 like, sometimes we talk about programming topics, but -823 +824 00:41:17,561 --> 00:41:19,571 -oftentimes I find with him, -we'll just like wax +oftentimes, I find with him, +we'll just, like, wax -824 +825 00:41:19,571 --> 00:41:21,581 philosophical for an hour. -825 +826 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:22,500 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -826 +827 00:41:22,700 --> 00:41:25,700 -Andrew: And then, it was like, +Andrew: And then it was like, "Where did the time go?" Like, -827 +828 00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:29,700 we came on this call to, you know, just chit-chat. And that's -828 +829 00:41:29,700 --> 00:41:30,040 always sort -829 +830 00:41:30,041 --> 00:41:35,652 -of where we end up. And -- but I +of where we end up. And-- but I love that. Like, that's why I -830 +831 00:41:35,652 --> 00:41:40,211 keep coming back, is to talk about philosophy with Kirk. -831 +832 00:41:40,911 --> 00:41:43,131 -Bekah: Kirk is great. I -- and -so, this -- well, once this +Bekah: Kirk is great. I-- and +so, this-- well, once this -832 +833 00:41:43,131 --> 00:41:45,351 episode -833 +834 00:41:45,351 --> 00:41:48,802 airs, this will have been a- a -couple of weeks. But we -- this +couple of weeks. But we-- this -834 +835 00:41:48,802 --> 00:41:52,311 -week we won Most Welcoming -Developer Community. I think +week we won "Most Welcoming +Developer Community". I think -835 +836 00:41:52,311 --> 00:41:54,382 that's it. Is that what it is? Cuz I keep saying that to -836 +837 00:41:54,382 --> 00:41:59,700 -people in -- on live [laughs] +people in-- on live [laughs] things. Something- something -837 +838 00:41:59,700 --> 00:42:00,626 about welcoming. In my -838 +839 00:42:00,626 --> 00:42:03,896 mind, we are definitely the most welcoming developer community. -839 +840 00:42:04,766 --> 00:42:06,746 I think we won the award for welcoming developer community. -840 +841 00:42:06,746 --> 00:42:09,431 So that would make us the most, right? By default? Because we -841 +842 00:42:09,431 --> 00:42:12,116 won? -842 +843 00:42:12,126 --> 00:42:14,197 -Dan: No, I think the word- the +Dan: No, I think the word-- the words called the most welcoming -843 +844 00:42:14,197 --> 00:42:15,007 developer community. -844 +845 00:42:15,016 --> 00:42:15,500 Bekah: Then I'm right. Okay. -845 +846 00:42:15,500 --> 00:42:15,700 Dan: Yeah. -846 +847 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:16,547 Bekah: Excellent. -847 +848 00:42:18,097 --> 00:42:18,516 -Andrew: That -- +Andrew: That-- -848 +849 00:42:18,617 --> 00:42:19,500 Bekah: I dunno where it's going with the awards. I was just -849 +850 00:42:19,500 --> 00:42:21,467 gonna drop that. And we won it [laughs]. -850 +851 00:42:23,286 --> 00:42:26,136 Andrew: Well-earned. -Well-deserved. I -- when I first +Well-deserved. I-- when I first -851 +852 00:42:26,136 --> 00:42:28,986 attended a VC -852 +853 00:42:28,987 --> 00:42:35,347 meeting, I very much felt that it ... like, it felt like I -853 +854 00:42:35,347 --> 00:42:42,626 belonged. And when I got into the Slack and I started, like, -854 +855 00:42:42,626 --> 00:42:45,476 messaging people, like, there -were -- there was a subset of +were-- there was a subset of -855 +856 00:42:45,476 --> 00:42:49,300 people who've made me feel like I belonged and those names will, -856 +857 00:42:49,300 --> 00:42:53,666 I think, will always stick out to me. And, like, these were the -857 +858 00:42:53,666 --> 00:42:57,836 people who when I joined VC, they were very active, they were -858 +859 00:42:57,836 --> 00:43:03,086 very present, and they made me feel a part of ... I think very -859 +860 00:43:03,086 --> 00:43:05,186 much about our friend, Mike, was one of those people. -860 +861 00:43:05,536 --> 00:43:14,436 -Bekah: Yeah. Yeah. So much- so +Bekah: Yeah. Yeah. So much-- so much of that welcoming spirit. -861 +862 00:43:15,666 --> 00:43:18,700 -And it- and it -- that is what -makes a community special, and +And it-- and it-- that is what +makes a community special and -862 +863 00:43:18,700 --> 00:43:19,596 the ability to, -863 +864 00:43:19,597 --> 00:43:25,700 you know, have those ... quiet conversations or, you know, -864 +865 00:43:25,700 --> 00:43:26,536 -there -- even +there-- even -865 +866 00:43:26,536 --> 00:43:28,651 -just -- there are tiny things -that I think are -- that are +just-- there are tiny things +that I think are-- that are -866 +867 00:43:28,651 --> 00:43:30,766 hard to put -867 +868 00:43:30,766 --> 00:43:35,356 into words that, you know, somebody might remember. So, -868 +869 00:43:35,597 --> 00:43:40,817 I got a package in the mail for Christmas. No name on it, and it -869 +870 00:43:40,817 --> 00:43:45,700 was a box of my favorite tea. I -don't know. I -- where did this +don't know. I-- where did this -870 +871 00:43:45,700 --> 00:43:46,581 come from? So I ask -871 +872 00:43:46,581 --> 00:43:49,161 Kirk. And Kirk- Kirk knew who sent it. It was somebody from -872 +873 00:43:49,161 --> 00:43:55,000 -Virtual Coffee. And it -- just +Virtual Coffee. And it-- just tiny things like that. I- I mean -873 +874 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:55,521 -is -- well, +is-- well, -874 +875 00:43:55,521 --> 00:43:58,000 sending a package, I feel like is a big thing because that -875 +876 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,700 requires a lot of enger- energy. But the idea that somebody -876 +877 00:44:01,700 --> 00:44:02,541 remembered what my -877 +878 00:44:02,541 --> 00:44:05,781 favorite tea was, was really -special. And there are like +special. And there are, like, -878 +879 00:44:05,781 --> 00:44:09,021 small -879 +880 00:44:09,021 --> 00:44:14,362 moments like that, that happen all the time with people. Or -880 +881 00:44:14,362 --> 00:44:18,081 someone will remember something that you've said a long time ago -881 +882 00:44:18,081 --> 00:44:20,362 and- and say something to you about it. And it just makes you -882 +883 00:44:20,362 --> 00:44:21,937 -feel like, "Yes, these are- +feel like, "Yes, these are-- these are my friends." And when -883 +884 00:44:21,937 --> 00:44:23,512 people -884 +885 00:44:23,512 --> 00:44:24,982 -are like, 'My online friends,' +are like, "My online friends," I'm like, "No, these are my -885 +886 00:44:24,982 --> 00:44:26,452 friends," -886 +887 00:44:26,541 --> 00:44:30,891 you know? And so I- I, for sure, get what you're- you're -887 +888 00:44:30,922 --> 00:44:31,731 saying there, Andrew. -888 +889 00:44:32,791 --> 00:44:37,300 Andrew: I think of, like, one of my big passions is running. And -889 +890 00:44:37,300 --> 00:44:38,548 we have a channel in- in our Slack, that's health and -890 +891 00:44:38,548 --> 00:44:42,286 fitness. And so, -891 +892 00:44:42,286 --> 00:44:46,956 I get to post about that running there sometimes. And it's a -892 +893 00:44:47,025 --> 00:44:49,590 opportunity for me to share that. Like, the friends I have, -893 +894 00:44:52,335 --> 00:44:57,500 who live around me, they- they don't care, like, about my -894 +895 00:44:57,500 --> 00:45:01,000 -running. I don't think they -- +running. I don't think they-- they're not like, "Oh, look -895 +896 00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,195 at this runner over here." Look, they [chuckles] -896 +897 00:45:03,195 --> 00:45:07,155 don't making fun of me for doing -it or something, but they just +it or something but they just -897 +898 00:45:07,155 --> 00:45:12,766 don't care. And that's fine. But there are people at VC who I -898 +899 00:45:12,766 --> 00:45:17,865 -can share that with, and they -care. And it's like, it means so +can share that with and they +care. And it's, like, it means -899 +900 00:45:17,865 --> 00:45:23,000 -much to me like running does, +so much to me like running does as- as a hobby and a passion, -900 +901 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:30,690 and to have other people, like, get invested to and care. It's -901 +902 00:45:31,327 --> 00:45:31,836 ... priceless. -902 +903 00:45:32,827 --> 00:45:35,556 Bekah: Yeah. We even, you know, you ran a race recently, right? -903 +904 00:45:35,556 --> 00:45:37,746 And I remember thinking like, "Oh, I know that he's running a -904 +905 00:45:37,746 --> 00:45:39,141 race. I need to go check, and see if he posted about it, and -905 +906 00:45:39,141 --> 00:45:40,536 ask him." -906 +907 00:45:40,597 --> 00:45:44,496 -And, like, that- that's it. I'm +And, like, that-- that's it. I'm not a huge runner. I've run a -907 +908 00:45:44,496 --> 00:45:48,246 couple of 5Ks, but I'm invested -in knowing how you did, because +in knowing how you did because -908 +909 00:45:48,246 --> 00:45:48,996 -you're my friend. Like [laughs] --- +you're my friend. Like +[laughs]-- -909 +910 00:45:50,958 --> 00:45:56,000 Andrew: Yeah. I- I see that, like ... I see that with you, -910 +911 00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:01,000 with weightlifting that you do, -like, you'll -- I've seen, like, +like, you'll-- I've seen, like, -911 +912 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:01,690 videos of you -912 +913 00:46:01,690 --> 00:46:04,900 -doing squats, and I'm like, "She +doing squats and I'm like, "She can definitely squat more than I -913 +914 00:46:04,900 --> 00:46:07,500 -can." But I'm [Bekah laughs] -- -because, you know, I'm not- I'm +can." But I'm [Bekah laughs]-- +because, you know, I'm not-- I'm -914 +915 00:46:07,500 --> 00:46:08,050 not much of a -915 +916 00:46:08,050 --> 00:46:11,320 -weightlifter, but it's the exact +weightlifter but it's the exact same thing, right? Where I- I -916 +917 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:15,000 look at that and I'm like, "I- I am here for this. I'm here for -917 +918 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,300 this success. Your success makes it feel like my success. Let's -918 +919 00:46:18,300 --> 00:46:19,869 be successful together." -919 +920 00:46:21,052 --> 00:46:22,177 -Bekah: That- that's such a great -way to describe it. I feel like +Bekah: That-- that's such a +great way to describe it. I feel -920 +921 00:46:22,177 --> 00:46:23,302 -maybe +like maybe -921 +922 00:46:23,302 --> 00:46:25,700 that's the episode title. Let's be successful together, right? -922 +923 00:46:25,700 --> 00:46:29,500 It's just all about lifting each other up. And when times are -923 +924 00:46:29,500 --> 00:46:29,810 hard, -924 +925 00:46:29,811 --> 00:46:33,351 especially in the last couple of years, being able to do that is- -925 +926 00:46:33,891 --> 00:46:38,181 is ... I don't know. Just, like, sometimes key to keeping that -926 +927 00:46:38,181 --> 00:46:40,222 momentum. I'm going back to my nickname. -927 +928 00:46:41,039 --> 00:46:46,184 -Andrew: The- the -- one thing I -did- I did wanna talk +Andrew: The- the-- one thing I +did-- I did wanna talk -928 +929 00:46:46,184 --> 00:46:52,000 -about, kind of related to a lot -of the stuff we've said is, +about — kind of related to a lot +of the stuff we've said — is, -929 +930 00:46:52,000 --> 00:47:01,000 like, one thing I've learned in -VC is I've learned -- I don't +VC is I've learned-- I don't -930 +931 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,000 think I've ever tried to put this into words. So let me -931 +932 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:03,500 give this- -932 +933 00:47:03,500 --> 00:47:04,000 Bekah: Yeah. It's fine. -933 +934 00:47:03,700 --> 00:47:08,599 Andrew: -a shot. Like, I ... -934 +935 00:47:08,599 --> 00:47:15,000 I'm learning how to be myself, and be respectful to myself, and -935 +936 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,939 allow -936 +937 00:47:16,940 --> 00:47:26,500 myself space to be a ce- a certain way, I guess. I- I see -937 +938 00:47:26,500 --> 00:47:30,380 -that, like, I get -- I +that, like, I get-- I -938 +939 00:47:30,380 --> 00:47:35,619 am my own worst critic. I am so hard on myself, you know? I- -939 +940 00:47:35,619 --> 00:47:38,760 I make one mistake, and all of a -sudden I'm not good enough. And, - -940 -00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,010 -you know, a lot of -- some of -this plays into like imposter +sudden, I'm not good enough. 941 -00:47:41,010 --> 00:47:47,775 -syndrome type deal. Like, I -- -my favorite analogy for this — +00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:39,945 +And, you know, a lot of-- some +of this plays into, like, 942 +00:47:39,945 --> 00:47:41,010 +imposter + +943 +00:47:41,010 --> 00:47:47,775 +syndrome type deal. Like, I-- my +favorite analogy for this — + +944 00:47:47,804 --> 00:47:49,799 and I do feel like this sometimes — is that I am two -943 +945 00:47:49,799 --> 00:47:51,794 children in a -944 +946 00:47:51,795 --> 00:47:55,005 trench coat who snuck into the movies and I am gonna get caught -945 +947 00:47:55,005 --> 00:47:57,219 one of these days. I literally was in a work meeting a couple -946 +948 00:47:57,219 --> 00:48:03,500 of months ago. And I remember I was talking, there was our CIO -947 +949 00:48:03,764 --> 00:48:07,300 -was in the meeting, and like, +was in the meeting and, like, some other PI up people. And -948 +950 00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:08,880 -for some reason I had +for some reason, I had -949 -00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,489 +951 +00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:10,184 the floor, and everybody was -listening to me, and I just like +listening to me, and I just, -950 +952 +00:48:10,184 --> 00:48:11,488 +like, + +953 00:48:11,489 --> 00:48:14,800 froze, right in the middle of talking. And I thought, "What am -951 +954 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:20,000 I doing here?" Like, "I am too much of a child to- to be doing -952 +955 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,718 this." [Laughs] But -953 +956 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:29,190 I think other people in VC who experienced this and have, -954 -00:48:30,704 --> 00:48:34,094 -you know, some success some days -at overcoming it have taught me +957 +00:48:30,704 --> 00:48:32,399 +you know, some success, some +days at overcoming it have -955 +958 +00:48:32,399 --> 00:48:34,094 +taught me + +959 00:48:34,094 --> 00:48:40,200 how to- to deal with that, and how to be okay with that. -956 +960 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:49,304 And one thing, I guess in- in sort of this similar vein that I -957 +961 00:48:49,304 --> 00:48:52,605 -carry with me a lot and I've +carry with me a lot, and I've carried into work is, as we talk -958 +962 00:48:52,605 --> 00:48:57,000 about in our VC meetings, we use the raise hand- -959 +963 00:48:58,700 --> 00:48:59,300 Bekah: Function? -960 +964 00:48:59,639 --> 00:49:05,000 Andrew: -reaction on Zoom. Yeah. -To -- so that people can have +To-- so that people can have -961 +965 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:06,719 space to say -962 +966 00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:11,000 -what they wanna say or share, +what they wanna say or share because it can be really hard -963 +967 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:15,700 to- to just find space in a conversation that is a reality -964 +968 00:49:15,700 --> 00:49:19,394 in, like, the real world. It can be very difficult. People have -965 +969 00:49:19,394 --> 00:49:21,914 different communication styles. -And some people, they're, like, +And some people, they're like, -966 +970 00:49:21,914 --> 00:49:24,500 "If you wanna say something, well, you just interrupt me." -967 +971 00:49:24,500 --> 00:49:29,700 You know, that's not me. And- -and I -- I'm very much a +and I-- I'm very much a -968 +972 00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:30,434 listener. So, if I'm -969 +973 00:49:30,434 --> 00:49:33,119 around a person who talks a lot, -they will -- I'll just sit +they will-- I'll just sit -970 +974 00:49:33,119 --> 00:49:35,804 quietly. -971 +975 00:49:37,175 --> 00:49:40,835 And if they don't ever give me space to say something, I -972 +976 00:49:40,835 --> 00:49:44,000 don't say something. There is no you can literally raise your -973 +977 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,700 hand in real life. I'm not gonna do that [chuckles]. But in Zoom, -974 +978 00:49:46,700 --> 00:49:46,804 there's -975 +979 00:49:46,804 --> 00:49:50,465 that raise hand functionality which allows me to find space. -976 +980 00:49:50,945 --> 00:49:53,434 And I know I've talked a lot on this podcast, so it sounds -977 +981 00:49:53,434 --> 00:49:56,700 contradictory to me saying that [chuckles]. I do that, but I -978 +982 00:49:56,700 --> 00:49:57,724 feel like this is -979 +983 00:49:57,724 --> 00:50:03,454 somehow a unique case. But I think, that is one of those -980 +984 00:50:03,454 --> 00:50:06,500 little things. And- and maybe it wasn't little when it was -981 +985 00:50:06,500 --> 00:50:06,724 thought -982 +986 00:50:06,724 --> 00:50:08,134 -of, and maybe it's not -- it -isn't little, I don't know. But +of, and maybe it's not-- it +isn't little. I don't know. But -983 +987 00:50:08,134 --> 00:50:09,544 it -984 +988 00:50:09,545 --> 00:50:11,630 seems like a small decision that -was made, right? It's -- all you +was made, right? It's-- all you -985 +989 00:50:11,630 --> 00:50:13,715 do -986 +990 00:50:13,715 --> 00:50:17,405 is you press the button, right? But it is so big to me. And I -987 +991 00:50:17,405 --> 00:50:20,494 carried that to- to my work when we have work meetings, and we've -988 +992 00:50:20,494 --> 00:50:24,514 -had like retros, and I'm like, +had, like, retros, and I'm like, "Hey, there is not space for -989 +993 00:50:24,514 --> 00:50:26,000 some of our quieter members of our team- -990 +994 00:50:26,300 --> 00:50:26,500 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -991 +995 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,000 Andrew: -be themselves and to share their -992 +996 00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,905 thoughts. And we need their thoughts." So, you know, we use -993 +997 00:50:31,905 --> 00:50:39,405 -that at work now too. And that's -a mind dump of like a sort of +that at work now, too. And +that's a mind dump of, like, a -994 +998 00:50:39,434 --> 00:50:42,494 -being myself type thing that -I've learned from VC. +sort of being myself type thing +that I've learned from VC. -995 +999 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,500 -Bekah: Oh, I love that. I -- and +Bekah: Oh, I love that. I-- and it is. That is those tiny things -996 +1000 00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:49,124 that make a big difference, especially if somebody is an -997 +1001 00:50:49,124 --> 00:50:51,629 introvert, or is -998 +1002 00:50:51,630 --> 00:50:56,280 neurodiverse, or it's just not really sure of what to expect -999 +1003 00:50:56,369 --> 00:51:02,670 within the- the way that things are happening. And so, having -1000 +1004 00:51:02,670 --> 00:51:07,074 -those things -- I know that at -work we use Google Meet, and +those things-- I know that at +work we use Google Meet and -1001 +1005 00:51:07,074 --> 00:51:09,700 there's not a hand raise function [chuckles]. And- and I -1002 +1006 00:51:09,700 --> 00:51:11,784 realized how much -1003 +1007 00:51:11,784 --> 00:51:16,854 I love the hand raise function now that we've been using it. -1004 +1008 00:51:16,854 --> 00:51:23,744 -So -- actually, it was Infinite +So-- actually, it was Infinite Red, I think, that introduced us -1005 +1009 00:51:23,744 --> 00:51:27,704 to the hand raise function. Because one of their founders -1006 +1010 00:51:27,704 --> 00:51:31,905 wrote a blog post about it. But i-it's finding those things like -1007 +1011 00:51:31,934 --> 00:51:34,965 that, and then bringing them to -the community and integrating +the community, and integrating -1008 +1012 00:51:34,965 --> 00:51:38,000 them in to make everyone feel welcome, that- that does -1009 +1013 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,033 [chuckles] allow for -1010 +1014 00:51:40,034 --> 00:51:45,835 everyone to feel welcome. Well, Andrew, I appreciate you being -1011 +1015 00:51:45,835 --> 00:51:49,135 here with us today. We're just about out of time. Are there any -1012 +1016 00:51:49,135 --> 00:51:53,994 last things that you'd like to share with our audience or -1013 +1017 00:51:54,175 --> 00:51:55,795 ... any words of wisdom? -1014 +1018 00:51:56,784 --> 00:52:03,652 Andrew: I think I've said a lot. But I guess the- the- the -1015 +1019 00:52:03,652 --> 00:52:07,672 closing thought to tie all the stuff I've said together is I -1016 +1020 00:52:07,672 --> 00:52:14,032 just wanna emphasize how much this community is -1017 +1021 00:52:14,032 --> 00:52:17,813 valuable. And I, you know, to those listening, you know, if -1018 +1022 00:52:17,813 --> 00:52:20,710 you're members of VC or potential members of VC, you -1019 +1023 00:52:20,710 --> 00:52:23,607 know, there is -1020 +1024 00:52:23,637 --> 00:52:26,277 more here than an opportunity -out of job, or an +out of job or an -1021 +1025 00:52:26,277 --> 00:52:28,917 opportunity -1022 +1026 00:52:29,757 --> 00:52:33,958 at growing your technical skills. Those things are here, -1023 +1027 00:52:34,588 --> 00:52:37,677 but there's an opportunity to be yourself. There's an opportunity -1024 +1028 00:52:37,677 --> 00:52:44,518 to be around people who are like you. And I think just don't be -1025 +1029 00:52:44,518 --> 00:52:49,047 afraid to- to join in all the parts that our community has to -1026 +1030 00:52:49,047 --> 00:52:54,643 offer and- and, you know, share yourself if you get -1027 +1031 00:52:54,643 --> 00:52:56,773 comfortable with that. It's worth it. -1028 +1032 00:52:57,963 --> 00:53:01,443 Dan: I think that's awesome. Thank you, Andrew, so much for -1029 +1033 00:53:01,443 --> 00:53:02,702 coming on. I really appreciate it. -1030 +1034 00:53:03,762 --> 00:53:04,902 Andrew: Thank you for having me. -1031 +1035 00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:06,000 Bekah: Bye. -1032 +1036 00:53:10,018 --> 00:53:12,119 Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual -1033 +1037 00:53:12,119 --> 00:53:15,864 Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah -1034 +1038 00:53:15,864 --> 00:53:17,254 Hawrot Weigel. If you have questions or comments, you can -1035 +1039 00:53:17,254 --> 00:53:21,655 hit us up on Twitter at -VirtualCoffeeIO, or email us at +VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at -1036 +1040 00:53:21,655 --> 00:53:23,390 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up -1037 +1041 00:53:23,390 --> 00:53:25,125 for -1038 +1042 00:53:25,125 --> 00:53:27,164 the newsletter, check out any of our other resources on our -1039 +1043 00:53:27,164 --> 00:53:30,554 website, virtualcoffee.io. If you're interested in sponsoring -1040 +1044 00:53:30,554 --> 00:53:32,954 Virtual Coffee, you can find out more information on our website -1041 +1045 00:53:33,224 --> 00:53:37,664 at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. -Please subscribe to our podcast, +Please subscribe to our podcast -1042 +1046 00:53:37,695 --> 00:53:39,197 and be sure to leave us a review. Thanks for listening, -1043 +1047 00:53:39,197 --> 00:53:41,744 and we'll see you next week! \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/episodes/5_7.srt b/episodes/5_7.srt index e682e58..acac643 100644 --- a/episodes/5_7.srt +++ b/episodes/5_7.srt @@ -9,7 +9,7 @@ of the 3 00:00:09,398 --> 00:00:12,137 -Virtual Coffee podcast. I'm +Virtual Coffee Podcast. I'm Bekah, and this is a podcast 4 @@ -28,12 +28,12 @@ developers at all stages of 7 00:00:19,992 --> 00:00:21,297 -their +their coding 8 00:00:21,297 --> 00:00:23,937 -coding journey. And they're here -on this podcast, sharing their +journey. And they're here, on +this podcast, sharing their 9 00:00:23,937 --> 00:00:25,302 @@ -65,7 +65,7 @@ She has a passion for 15 00:00:36,952 --> 00:00:38,737 -open-source, +open source, 16 00:00:38,826 --> 00:00:43,627 @@ -102,4656 +102,4460 @@ Meg Gutshall: Ninety. 23 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,130 -Dan: Oh, yeah. Nine [laughs] -- +Dan: Oh, yeah. Nine [laughs]-- 98 million times, which was- 24 -00:01:00,130 --> 00:01:02,260 -which was delightful to -- I- I +00:01:00,130 --> 00:01:04,390 +which was delightful to-- I- I have a special place in my heart 25 -00:01:02,260 --> 00:01:04,390 -for - -26 00:01:04,391 --> 00:01:05,891 -Philadelphia. So it was a -- +for Philadelphia. So it was a-- it's always- it's always good to -27 +26 00:01:05,891 --> 00:01:07,391 hear. -28 +27 00:01:07,602 --> 00:01:11,861 Also, Meg is- is another one of our big volunteers at Virtual -29 -00:01:11,861 --> 00:01:14,261 -Coffee, like Andrew last year -- +28 +00:01:11,861 --> 00:01:16,661 +Coffee, like Andrew last year-- last week. [Chuckles] Sorry. And -30 -00:01:14,261 --> 00:01:16,661 --- - -31 +29 00:01:16,712 --> 00:01:19,221 so, she talked what she's been doing with her -32 +30 00:01:19,221 --> 00:01:22,462 accountabil- accountability buddies group. Accountabil- -33 +31 00:01:22,462 --> 00:01:27,171 -buddies [laughs]. And- and- and -all the work she's done. Making, +buddies [laughs] and- and- and +all the work she's done, making, -34 +32 00:01:27,231 --> 00:01:29,481 you know, making spaces at Virtual Coffee for everyone. -35 +33 00:01:30,031 --> 00:01:33,121 Bekah: Yeah. We're happy to have Meg here with us today. And -36 -00:01:33,121 --> 00:01:35,401 +34 +00:01:33,121 --> 00:01:37,681 actually, before we get started with the podcast, Meg is here -37 -00:01:35,401 --> 00:01:37,681 -for a - -38 +35 00:01:37,682 --> 00:01:38,701 -special announcement. +for a special announcement. -39 -00:01:39,802 --> 00:01:42,667 +36 +00:01:39,802 --> 00:01:45,532 Meg: This episode is dedicated to our friend, Mike Rogers. We -40 -00:01:42,667 --> 00:01:45,532 -miss - -41 +37 00:01:45,533 --> 00:01:49,313 -you, we love you, and we'll +miss you, we love you, and we'll never forget you. -42 +38 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,034 Bekah: Thanks, Meg. We start every episode of the podcast -43 +39 00:01:53,034 --> 00:01:55,734 like we start every Virtual Coffee. We introduce ourselves -44 +40 00:01:55,734 --> 00:01:57,399 with our name, where we're from, what we do, and a random -45 +41 00:01:57,399 --> 00:01:59,064 check-in -46 +42 00:01:59,064 --> 00:02:05,215 question. We hope you enjoy this episode. Today's question is, -47 +43 00:02:05,215 --> 00:02:11,366 what -48 +44 00:02:11,545 --> 00:02:13,255 board game would you play for the rest of your life, if you -49 +45 00:02:13,255 --> 00:02:14,965 could -50 +46 00:02:14,966 --> 00:02:20,485 only play one board game? My name is Bekah. I am a technical -51 +47 00:02:20,485 --> 00:02:22,660 community builder from a small town in Ohio. And if I could -52 +48 00:02:22,660 --> 00:02:24,835 play -53 -00:02:24,836 --> 00:02:29,425 -one board game -- I'm not using -the word board game like kind of +49 +00:02:24,836 --> 00:02:27,130 +one board game-- I'm not using +the word board game, like, kind -54 +50 +00:02:27,130 --> 00:02:29,424 +of + +51 00:02:29,425 --> 00:02:34,915 loosely, so, a- a- a table game, maybe? I really like Splendor. -55 -00:02:35,186 --> 00:02:36,475 +52 +00:02:35,186 --> 00:02:37,764 I- I've been into that. I'm not very good at it. I lose all the -56 -00:02:36,475 --> 00:02:37,764 -time. - -57 +53 00:02:38,186 --> 00:02:40,106 -I think I lost to my -12-year-old, but I like it. So +time. I think I lost to my +12-year-old, but I like it. So, -58 -00:02:40,106 --> 00:02:42,026 -I'll just keep - -59 -00:02:42,026 --> 00:02:42,876 -playing Splendor. +54 +00:02:40,106 --> 00:02:42,876 +I'll just keep playing Splendor. -60 +55 00:02:43,126 --> 00:02:49,496 Dan: Splendor's cool. Hi, I'm Dan. I do development stuff in -61 +56 00:02:49,556 --> 00:02:51,576 Cleveland, Ohio. Yeah, I don't know. There's a lot of good -62 +57 00:02:51,576 --> 00:02:53,596 board -63 +58 00:02:53,596 --> 00:02:57,286 games. Do the rules allow for expansions, you know, and stuff, -64 +59 00:02:57,286 --> 00:02:58,425 or is it just the base? -65 +60 00:02:58,485 --> 00:02:59,475 Bekah: No, you can only play the base. -66 +61 00:03:00,306 --> 00:03:01,240 Dan: [Chuckles] Only the base. Okay. Because that change, you -67 -00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:02,174 -know, that- that - -68 -00:03:02,175 --> 00:03:02,746 -changes things, right? +62 +00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:02,746 +know, that- that changes things, +right? -69 +63 00:03:02,961 --> 00:03:03,561 Bekah: All about that base. -70 +64 00:03:03,915 --> 00:03:05,895 Dan: You know, Catan is really good. I don't- I don't wanna -71 +65 00:03:05,895 --> 00:03:07,875 have to -72 +66 00:03:07,876 --> 00:03:11,145 pick one though. It's tough. I think I'm gonna go with Dominion -73 +67 00:03:11,355 --> 00:03:13,695 -because ... that -- well, -there's a lot of different +because ... that-- well, there's +a lot of different -74 +68 00:03:13,695 --> 00:03:16,035 combinations. Like, e-e-each game -75 +69 00:03:16,036 --> 00:03:17,100 is a little bit different, you -know? So, I don't know, it's a +know? So, I don't know-- it's a -76 +70 00:03:17,100 --> 00:03:18,164 little -77 +71 00:03:18,165 --> 00:03:20,503 different options. So I'm sure -there is ... I don't know, the +there is ... I don't know-- the -78 +72 00:03:20,503 --> 00:03:22,841 factorial height? -79 +73 00:03:23,170 --> 00:03:24,190 [Laughs] I'm sure there's some way to calculate how many -80 +74 00:03:24,190 --> 00:03:25,210 different, you -81 +75 00:03:25,211 --> 00:03:27,190 know, set up, so you could do for each one, but I'm not gonna -82 -00:03:27,190 --> 00:03:29,169 -do - -83 -00:03:29,170 --> 00:03:31,661 -that right now cuz, you know, +76 +00:03:27,190 --> 00:03:31,661 +do that right now cuz, you know, it's- it's late at night -84 +77 00:03:31,661 --> 00:03:35,501 for me [laughs]. So- so, yeah. That's my answer. Dominion. -85 -00:03:36,534 --> 00:03:42,200 +78 +00:03:36,534 --> 00:03:47,866 Meg: My name's Meg, and I'm from -Philly, the home of Gritty. And +Philly—the home of Gritty. And -86 -00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:47,866 -I - -87 +79 00:03:47,866 --> 00:03:52,000 -would play Yahtzee for the rest -of my life. +I would play Yahtzee for the +rest of my life. -88 +80 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:52,000 Dan: Ooh. -89 +81 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,000 Meg: Yahtzee is my jam. I love it. -90 +82 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:59,000 Bekah: I like Yahtzee. -91 +83 00:04:59,000 --> 00:04:59,000 Meg: Yeah. -92 -00:04:59,000 --> 00:04:59,000 +84 +00:04:59,000 --> 00:04:59,001 Bekah: I lose the dice though. So then I would be out of luck. -93 -00:04:59,000 --> 00:04:59,000 -I - -94 +85 00:04:01,856 --> 00:04:02,817 -couldn't play anymore. +I couldn't play anymore. -95 +86 00:04:02,866 --> 00:04:06,887 Meg: Yeah. But then you can just ransack your other board games -96 +87 00:04:07,097 --> 00:04:11,447 and find five more dice. It's pretty ... yeah. -97 +88 00:04:11,917 --> 00:04:13,387 Dan: It's true. Cuz you're not allowed to play any of the other -98 +89 00:04:13,387 --> 00:04:14,076 ones. So, you know? [Chuckles] -99 +90 00:04:16,961 --> 00:04:19,601 Bekah: No, it's not true. I have a large collection of games. So -100 +91 00:04:19,601 --> 00:04:22,241 -there are -- [chuckles] well, +there are-- [chuckles] well, welcome Meg. We're happy -101 +92 00:04:22,242 --> 00:04:25,812 to have you here with us today. -We are -- this is like kind of a +We are-- this is, like, kind of -102 +93 00:04:25,812 --> 00:04:28,961 -special episode cuz we're +a special episode cuz we're recording in the evening, and we -103 +94 00:04:28,961 --> 00:04:30,806 normally don't do that. So, I don't know if I need to -104 +95 00:04:30,806 --> 00:04:32,651 apologize -105 +96 00:04:32,651 --> 00:04:35,731 for that in advance [laughs], like, my brain stops working at -106 -00:04:35,731 --> 00:04:38,811 -3.45, every day. - -107 -00:04:38,812 --> 00:04:39,000 -So -- +97 +00:04:35,731 --> 00:04:39,000 +three fourty five, every day. +So-- -108 +98 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,000 Meg: Night time edition. -109 +99 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,221 Bekah: Welcome- welcome to the evening edition. Well, we're -110 +100 00:04:43,221 --> 00:04:45,442 gonna -111 +101 00:04:45,442 --> 00:04:50,632 let you get us started with your origin story. So, how did you -112 +102 00:04:50,632 --> 00:04:53,601 -get to this points of your -- +get to this points of your-- -113 -00:04:56,151 --> 00:04:58,326 +103 +00:04:56,151 --> 00:05:00,501 Meg: Oh, geez. That's a long st- that's a ... I don't know. That -114 -00:04:58,326 --> 00:05:00,501 -is - -115 +104 00:05:00,502 --> 00:05:10,752 -kind of a long story, but I'll -compact it. I- I went to +is kind of a long story, but +I'll compact it. I- I went to -116 +105 00:05:10,992 --> 00:05:17,232 -school -- on to college at -Temple University. That's in +school on-- to college at Temple +University. That's in -117 +106 00:05:17,411 --> 00:05:21,942 Philadelphia. Once again, home -of Gritty, the mascot for the +of Gritty—the mascot for the -118 +107 00:05:21,942 --> 00:05:24,491 Flyers [Dan chuckles]. Dan earlier said that it was for the -119 +108 00:05:24,491 --> 00:05:27,040 Philly. -120 +109 00:05:27,427 --> 00:05:28,836 -Dan: Oh, I know -- I knew I was +Dan: Oh, I know-- I knew I was wrong as soon as I said it. -121 +110 00:05:29,411 --> 00:05:35,711 Meg: Yeah. Gritty's the Flyers mascot. And I studied -122 +111 00:05:35,711 --> 00:05:42,012 Spanish at Temple, and graduated with a Bachelors of Arts, and -123 +112 00:05:42,072 --> 00:05:43,856 -didn't wanna teach. And then I +didn't wanna teach. And then, I was like, "Oh, oh, what am I -124 +113 00:05:43,856 --> 00:05:45,640 gonna -125 +114 00:05:45,641 --> 00:05:51,552 do?" Translation jobs didn't come too easily. So I just -126 +115 00:05:51,552 --> 00:05:56,876 kind of wound up doing admin jobs, and ... I ... got a job. -127 +116 00:05:56,876 --> 00:06:02,200 My first job was -128 +117 00:06:02,201 --> 00:06:08,471 at field hockey coaching and training facility for girls 18 -129 +118 00:06:08,471 --> 00:06:14,201 and under. And, it happened to -be like the number one +be, like, the number one -130 +119 00:06:14,382 --> 00:06:19,932 facility in the state of PA. And I just knew nothing about field -131 +120 00:06:19,932 --> 00:06:22,736 -hockey — I still don't. -[Chuckles] But, like, I just +hockey—I still don't. [Chuckles] +But, like, I just -132 +121 00:06:22,736 --> 00:06:25,540 communicated with the -133 +122 00:06:25,541 --> 00:06:31,586 parents about, you know, having their kids register in the -134 +123 00:06:31,586 --> 00:06:35,276 leagues and stuff, and set up tournaments. And I learned so -135 +124 00:06:35,276 --> 00:06:39,281 -much just through like running +much just through, like, running business. And, also, I did some -136 +125 00:06:39,281 --> 00:06:43,286 web -137 +126 00:06:43,286 --> 00:06:48,086 development there, just because it was me, and my boss, and -138 +127 00:06:48,086 --> 00:06:55,302 -one other employee. And then -after that, I -- one of the +one other employee. And then, +after that, I-- one of the -139 -00:06:55,331 --> 00:06:58,511 +128 +00:06:55,331 --> 00:07:01,691 parents, when I had on-site left, she asked if I was looking -140 -00:06:58,511 --> 00:07:01,691 -for - -141 +129 00:07:01,841 --> 00:07:08,831 -another place and -- to work. +for another place and-- to work. And she worked at a IT -142 +130 00:07:08,831 --> 00:07:17,021 recruiting place, and they were looking for an admin. So -143 +131 00:07:17,021 --> 00:07:20,398 that's how I got into tech. I- I didn't know really anything -144 +132 00:07:20,398 --> 00:07:23,775 about it. And -145 +133 00:07:24,797 --> 00:07:29,522 -once again, I up -- caught [??] +once again, I up-- caught [??] their website, and I saw, you -146 +134 00:07:29,522 --> 00:07:34,247 know, what people -147 +135 00:07:34,247 --> 00:07:37,442 were making, and I was like, "Dang, that's a lot [chuckles]." -148 +136 00:07:37,442 --> 00:07:40,637 And these kids -149 +137 00:07:40,637 --> 00:07:44,872 coming out of college, I was just like, "Yeah, I'm definitely -150 +138 00:07:44,872 --> 00:07:48,877 smarter than you are [chuckles]. Like, [Dan laughs] why am I not -151 +139 00:07:48,877 --> 00:07:52,882 doing this? Why am I not trying -this?" So, I took +this?" So, I took, -152 +140 00:07:52,882 --> 00:08:04,122 -like a Coursera course, and ... -tried it. I loved it. The -- it +like, a Coursera course, and ... +tried it. I loved it. The-- it -153 +141 00:08:04,122 --> 00:08:07,331 -was like HTML, CSS, and +was, like, HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. Just a very basic -154 +142 00:08:07,331 --> 00:08:10,540 web thing. And so, -155 +143 00:08:10,541 --> 00:08:15,896 since I loved it so much, I dove into it with the freeCodeCamp -156 +144 00:08:16,346 --> 00:08:23,367 -bootcamp, or -- no, sorry. Oh my +bootcamp, or-- no, sorry. Oh my gosh. Flatiron bootcamp! But -157 +145 00:08:23,487 --> 00:08:25,851 although I do very much -recommend freeCodeCamp's — +recommend freeCodeCamp's-- -158 +146 00:08:25,851 --> 00:08:28,215 freecodecamp.org -159 +147 00:08:28,406 --> 00:08:34,226 -online. The Flatiron bootcamp -- +online. The Flatiron bootcamp-- and that's where Bekah and -160 +148 00:08:34,226 --> 00:08:37,941 -I met. And, yeah. Just -- that +I met. And, yeah. Just-- that was- that was a lot of work. -161 +149 00:08:37,941 --> 00:08:41,656 Self-paced -162 +150 00:08:41,657 --> 00:08:46,441 online, well, working three jobs, like, part-time. It was- -163 -00:08:46,441 --> 00:08:51,225 -it - -164 -00:08:51,226 --> 00:08:54,531 -was more of like, I dunno for -you -- I don't know how you'd +151 +00:08:46,441 --> 00:08:54,531 +it was more of, like, I dunno +for you-- I don't know how you'd -165 +152 00:08:54,531 --> 00:08:57,836 say it. Freelancing? -166 +153 00:08:58,586 --> 00:09:06,027 Cuz I was con- consulting for a -job, and then, I have a tenant, +job, and then I have a tenant, -167 +154 00:09:06,086 --> 00:09:10,706 and I had a pet sitting business for the time pre-COVID -168 +155 00:09:10,706 --> 00:09:15,326 -[chuckles]. And, yeah. +[chuckles]. And-- yeah. -169 +156 00:09:15,326 --> 00:09:20,937 That took a while. It was a lot of work, but it paid off cuz now -170 -00:09:20,937 --> 00:09:25,406 -I'm with -- I'm a consultant -with Penn medicine, and talking - -171 -00:09:25,406 --> 00:09:29,875 -to +157 +00:09:20,937 --> 00:09:29,875 +I'm with-- I'm a consultant with +Penn Medicine, and talking to -172 +158 00:09:29,876 --> 00:09:35,052 my manager about getting hired on full time, hopefully before -173 +159 00:09:35,052 --> 00:09:37,392 -the end of June. So -- +the end of June. So-- -174 +160 00:09:38,172 --> 00:09:40,881 Dan: That's awesome. -175 +161 00:09:41,866 --> 00:09:44,311 Bekah: Yeah, that's awesome. I -think, I- I'm trying to think of +think-- I- I'm trying to think -176 +162 00:09:44,311 --> 00:09:46,756 -the first time +of the first time -177 +163 00:09:46,756 --> 00:09:50,187 you and I chatted, but I know that when you were at Flatiron, -178 +164 00:09:50,206 --> 00:09:53,716 I was always impressed. So it -was like self-paced, remote, I +was, like, self-paced, remote, I -179 +165 00:09:53,716 --> 00:09:57,407 didn't know anybody, I, like, hardly talked to anyone there -180 +166 00:09:57,407 --> 00:10:00,599 just because it's kind of ... hard to ... like, I dunno, make -181 +167 00:10:00,599 --> 00:10:03,791 friends -182 -00:10:04,001 --> 00:10:05,726 +168 +00:10:04,001 --> 00:10:07,451 online when you don't see people. Like, you can't, like, -183 -00:10:05,726 --> 00:10:07,451 -accidentally - -184 +169 00:10:07,451 --> 00:10:10,000 -run into them. And- +accidentally run into them. And- -185 +170 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:10,000 Meg: Yeah. -186 +171 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,050 Bekah: -you were running a study group there, that met up. And I -187 +172 00:10:13,050 --> 00:10:16,100 -was like, always like, wow. I -- -are you -- honestly, I thought +was, like-- always, like, "Wow." +I-- are you-- honestly, I -188 +173 00:10:16,100 --> 00:10:19,150 -you +thought you -189 +174 00:10:19,152 --> 00:10:23,532 worked at Flatiron because you were so active in the Slack and -190 +175 00:10:23,532 --> 00:10:26,412 doing all these things. And I was like, "That's awesome." And -191 +176 00:10:26,412 --> 00:10:29,292 then, I -192 +177 00:10:29,292 --> 00:10:33,000 came in, I gave a talk. I think you invited me to give a talk. -193 +178 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:33,000 Meg: Mm-hmm. -194 +179 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:35,545 Bekah: I was going to give a talk at a conference, and I -195 +180 00:10:35,545 --> 00:10:37,090 think you were -196 +181 00:10:37,091 --> 00:10:38,666 like, "Hey, wanna practice here?" And I just remember it -197 +182 00:10:38,666 --> 00:10:40,241 going so -198 +183 00:10:40,241 --> 00:10:43,076 horribly. And I'm like, "This is gonna be really awful [laughs]." -199 +184 00:10:43,076 --> 00:10:45,911 -But like, I +But, like, I -200 +185 00:10:45,912 --> 00:10:48,146 appreciate it, kind of being able to do that in a safe space, -201 -00:10:48,146 --> 00:10:50,380 -like, - -202 -00:10:50,922 --> 00:10:52,466 -where nobody was going to get up -and walk out of the room +186 +00:10:48,146 --> 00:10:52,466 +like, where nobody was going to +get up and walk out of the room -203 +187 00:10:52,466 --> 00:10:54,010 [chuckles] because -204 +188 00:10:54,011 --> 00:10:56,719 it was so bad. But it, like, -helped me to recognize like +helped me to recognize, like, -205 +189 00:10:56,719 --> 00:10:59,427 where I -206 +190 00:10:59,427 --> 00:11:01,781 -really needed to practice, and I +really needed to practice and I needed to work on get- getting -207 -00:11:01,781 --> 00:11:04,135 -through - -208 -00:11:04,136 --> 00:11:04,736 -that talk. +191 +00:11:01,781 --> 00:11:04,736 +through that talk. -209 +192 00:11:05,326 --> 00:11:08,676 Meg: You- you know, I remember -it differently [chuckles]. But, +it differently [chuckles]. But-- -210 +193 00:11:08,676 --> 00:11:12,026 -yeah. You -- so +yeah. You-- so, -211 +194 00:11:12,027 --> 00:11:14,772 you're definitely not the only person who thought I was an -212 +195 00:11:14,772 --> 00:11:17,517 instructor [chuckles]. -213 +196 00:11:18,716 --> 00:11:24,086 I would get hit up by a lot of -other students, like asking for +other students, like, asking for -214 +197 00:11:24,086 --> 00:11:26,651 help and stuff. And I- I literally had to impose a limit -215 +198 00:11:26,651 --> 00:11:29,216 for myself -216 +199 00:11:29,216 --> 00:11:32,261 of how much I'd help people per week. And I would just tell -217 +200 00:11:32,261 --> 00:11:35,306 them, -218 +201 00:11:35,397 --> 00:11:38,051 "I reached my weekly limit of helping people. So, I'm sorry. -219 +202 00:11:38,051 --> 00:11:40,705 But -220 +203 00:11:40,706 --> 00:11:44,547 you should ask this person. I know they're on that section -221 +204 00:11:44,547 --> 00:11:53,427 right now." And the group you talked about, I started with -222 +205 00:11:53,486 --> 00:11:59,427 another classmate. Her name's Sherry Martin. And she -223 +206 00:11:59,427 --> 00:12:04,677 -came to me with these -- this +came to me with these-- this idea. We called it co-talk, -224 +207 00:12:04,706 --> 00:12:11,861 cuz she said she talk to someone -about -- at their bootcamp, +about-- at their bootcamp, -225 +208 00:12:11,861 --> 00:12:15,896 -they had -- took turns -presenting code, and talking +they had-- took turns presenting +code, and talking -226 +209 00:12:15,896 --> 00:12:19,931 about -227 +210 00:12:19,932 --> 00:12:25,572 it, and using technical terms talking about it, and how she -228 +211 00:12:25,572 --> 00:12:27,927 -thought that was so cool, and +thought that was so cool, and, like, helpful. And she wanted -229 +212 00:12:27,927 --> 00:12:30,282 someone -230 +213 00:12:30,282 --> 00:12:38,351 to help her start this. And she, actually, left Flatiron -231 +214 00:12:38,381 --> 00:12:43,812 early for a job. She's just like woman on a mission, could not -232 +215 00:12:43,812 --> 00:12:50,772 -stop her. And so we would do a +stop her. And so, we would do a technical challenges. I think it -233 +216 00:12:50,772 --> 00:12:58,662 was every week. And then, when I found people like you, who -234 +217 00:12:59,022 --> 00:13:02,006 actually had something to present, or maybe going to a -235 +218 00:13:02,006 --> 00:13:04,990 conference, I will -236 +219 00:13:05,001 --> 00:13:07,036 pitch them that, "Hey, do you wanna practice?" And I do -237 +220 00:13:07,036 --> 00:13:09,071 -remember -- +remember-- -238 +221 00:13:09,192 --> 00:13:18,511 your talk ... being, like, good. -And it was, like you said of +And it was, like, you said of -239 +222 00:13:18,631 --> 00:13:20,911 relaxed, like, ditching it, like, "Hey, yeah. Just practice -240 +223 00:13:20,911 --> 00:13:23,191 here. -241 +224 00:13:23,192 --> 00:13:25,937 We'll record it so you can watch it back, and see how you did." -242 +225 00:13:25,937 --> 00:13:28,682 And I -243 +226 00:13:28,682 --> 00:13:32,742 remember you saying to me, "I realize that I need to read off -244 +227 00:13:32,742 --> 00:13:36,802 a script. -245 +228 00:13:37,341 --> 00:13:41,076 So that's what I did for the actual conference. And it went -246 +229 00:13:41,076 --> 00:13:44,811 so much -247 +230 00:13:44,841 --> 00:13:48,366 -better." And I was like super +better." And I was, like, super happy that, like, you practicing -248 +231 00:13:48,366 --> 00:13:51,891 in front -249 +232 00:13:51,892 --> 00:13:56,991 of people helped- helped you to figure that out before the big -250 +233 00:13:56,991 --> 00:13:57,532 day [chuckles]. -251 +234 00:13:58,466 --> 00:13:59,921 Bekah: Yeah, for sure. I mean, so many people were like, "Oh, -252 +235 00:13:59,921 --> 00:14:01,376 no. You -253 +236 00:14:01,376 --> 00:14:02,786 -don't read off of -- like, you -shouldn't read off of anything, +don't read off of-- like, you +shouldn't read off of anything -254 -00:14:02,786 --> 00:14:04,196 -or - -255 -00:14:04,197 --> 00:14:05,531 -like have notes. Like, you +237 +00:14:02,786 --> 00:14:05,531 +or, like, have notes. Like, you should be able to do it." I -256 +238 00:14:05,531 --> 00:14:06,865 can't do -257 +239 00:14:06,866 --> 00:14:10,136 that. Like, my memory does not work that way. I have to have -258 +240 00:14:10,136 --> 00:14:12,236 something in front of me. I distract myself all the time, or -259 +241 00:14:12,236 --> 00:14:14,336 I -260 +242 00:14:14,346 --> 00:14:17,907 go off on tangents, or I'll remember that I meant to say -261 +243 00:14:17,907 --> 00:14:20,237 this thing five minutes ago, and -now, like, "What am I supposed +now like, "What am I supposed -262 +244 00:14:20,237 --> 00:14:22,567 to do? Do I -263 +245 00:14:22,567 --> 00:14:26,151 go back to that point -[chuckles]?" But -- so, it was- +[chuckles]?" But-- so, it was- -264 +246 00:14:26,151 --> 00:14:29,735 it was really, really helpful to, -265 +247 00:14:30,126 --> 00:14:32,000 like, have that experience. -266 +248 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,000 Meg: Thanks. Nice to know. -267 +249 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,095 Bekah: And I- I mean, I feel like you've done lot of that -268 +250 00:14:36,095 --> 00:14:38,190 throughout all of the stuff that -you're doing. And that -- like, +you're doing. And that-- like, -269 +251 00:14:38,190 --> 00:14:40,285 at Virtual -270 +252 00:14:40,287 --> 00:14:41,621 Coffee now, you know? You- -you've come on it -- you have +you've come on it-- you have, -271 +253 00:14:41,621 --> 00:14:42,955 -like a +like, a -272 +254 00:14:42,956 --> 00:14:47,216 really great knack for knowing people. I- I love that you said -273 +255 00:14:47,216 --> 00:14:49,166 that you set limits back then. Because one, I think that's -274 +256 00:14:49,166 --> 00:14:51,116 -really good, and +really good and -275 +257 00:14:51,116 --> 00:14:53,306 -really important, because it -couldn't be easy to, like, to - -276 -00:14:53,306 --> 00:14:55,496 -help everybody all the +really important because it +couldn't be easy to-- like, to -277 -00:14:55,496 --> 00:14:55,917 -time. +258 +00:14:53,306 --> 00:14:55,917 +help everybody all the time. -278 +259 00:14:56,371 --> 00:14:57,121 -Meg: Oh, my god. Yes [chuckles]. +Meg: Oh my god. Yes [chuckles]. -279 +260 00:14:57,861 --> 00:15:00,621 -Bekah: And -- but- but, like, -you have these connections too, +Bekah: And-- but- but, like, you +have these connections too, -280 +261 00:15:00,621 --> 00:15:03,381 like you knew, "Okay. I -281 +262 00:15:03,381 --> 00:15:05,781 can't do this, but I can connect you with other people." And I -282 +263 00:15:05,781 --> 00:15:08,181 think that's so great -283 +264 00:15:08,182 --> 00:15:10,432 because you're- you're able to -help so many more people, and +help so many more people, and, -284 +265 00:15:10,432 --> 00:15:12,682 like, -285 +266 00:15:12,682 --> 00:15:18,261 hopefully preserve your- your own self from falling into total -286 +267 00:15:18,261 --> 00:15:20,061 exhaustion by creating -boundaries. But also like - -287 -00:15:20,061 --> 00:15:21,861 -showing +boundaries. But also, like, -288 -00:15:21,861 --> 00:15:23,932 -that it's okay to have +268 +00:15:20,061 --> 00:15:23,932 +showing that it's okay to have boundaries with things. -289 +269 00:15:25,331 --> 00:15:28,321 Meg: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think, like I say in the beginning with- -290 +270 00:15:28,321 --> 00:15:31,311 with all the -291 -00:15:32,091 --> 00:15:34,431 -work and just like pushing -through, like you said, it's -- - -292 -00:15:34,431 --> 00:15:36,771 -it- +271 +00:15:32,091 --> 00:15:36,771 +work and just, like, pushing +through, like you said, it's-- -293 +272 00:15:36,802 --> 00:15:41,391 -it wasn't like ... Flatiron +it- it wasn't, like ... Flatiron didn't do a great job of -294 +273 00:15:41,391 --> 00:15:45,980 creating a community for -295 +274 00:15:45,981 --> 00:15:51,302 the online self-paced students. They're just like, "Here's -296 +275 00:15:53,532 --> 00:15:59,441 Slack. Here you go." And, so, I -did kind of -- what -- I'm +did kind of-- what-- I'm -297 +276 00:15:59,441 --> 00:16:05,350 -[chuckles] -- I started doing +[chuckles]-- I started doing with -298 +277 00:16:05,711 --> 00:16:09,621 the accountability buddies group, just ... posting -299 +278 00:16:09,621 --> 00:16:13,531 incessantly and -300 +279 00:16:13,532 --> 00:16:20,912 being so annoying that you have to be my friend and participate. -301 +280 00:16:22,032 --> 00:16:28,782 -Like, "Oh, my gosh. Okay, fine. -There -- this person's always +Like, "Oh my gosh. Okay, fine. +There-- this person's always -302 +281 00:16:28,782 --> 00:16:30,717 posting. I guess I'll go and see what it's all about." And then -303 +282 00:16:30,717 --> 00:16:32,652 it's -304 +283 00:16:32,652 --> 00:16:34,602 like, "Oh, they're not a crazy nut job. And there's other -305 +284 00:16:34,602 --> 00:16:36,552 people -306 +285 00:16:36,552 --> 00:16:41,237 -here. You know, that -- this is +here, you know? That-- this is pretty cool," you know? So ... -307 +286 00:16:41,237 --> 00:16:45,922 yeah, I have to -308 +287 00:16:45,922 --> 00:16:48,669 keep a little bit of my crazy nut job and check when- when -309 +288 00:16:48,669 --> 00:16:51,416 people actually -310 +289 00:16:51,417 --> 00:16:52,136 show up [Bekah chuckles]. It's hard [chuckles]. -311 +290 00:16:57,256 --> 00:16:58,861 Dan: Can you- can you tell us a -little bit more about, like, the +little bit more about, like, -312 +291 00:16:58,861 --> 00:17:00,466 --- +the-- -313 +292 00:17:00,716 --> 00:17:02,796 about- about the accountability group itself, and- and, you -314 +293 00:17:02,796 --> 00:17:04,876 -know, what -- +know, what-- -315 +294 00:17:05,836 --> 00:17:07,471 sort of what it is, and, you -know, how -- maybe how it - -316 -00:17:07,471 --> 00:17:09,106 -started a little +know, how-- maybe how it -317 -00:17:09,106 --> 00:17:09,317 -bit. +295 +00:17:07,471 --> 00:17:09,317 +started a little bit. -318 +296 00:17:09,747 --> 00:17:16,892 Meg: Yeah. Okay. So it was ... -Sarah Strong who put a post on +Sarah Strong—who put a post on -319 +297 00:17:16,892 --> 00:17:24,037 Slack -320 +298 00:17:24,037 --> 00:17:28,537 -somewhere, and ... it was just +somewhere—and ... it was just asking for an accountability -321 +299 00:17:28,537 --> 00:17:33,037 partner -322 +300 00:17:33,727 --> 00:17:41,257 when job searching. Because, you know, it's super fun when you -323 +301 00:17:41,317 --> 00:17:48,457 write cover letters, and fill -out applications with like your +out applications with, like, -324 +302 00:17:48,457 --> 00:17:52,056 -address, and you going -- have -to send in your resume, and then +your address, and you going-- +have to send in your resume, and -325 +303 00:17:52,056 --> 00:17:55,655 -type +then type -326 +304 00:17:55,656 --> 00:18:01,626 in everything that's in the f- attachment you just sent, like, -327 +305 00:18:02,317 --> 00:18:04,147 -that's all really fun. Also -getting rejection letters, and +that's all really fun. Also, +getting rejection letters and -328 +306 00:18:04,147 --> 00:18:05,977 all -329 +307 00:18:05,977 --> 00:18:13,747 that stuff, super fun. So, you wanna share the fun with other -330 +308 00:18:13,747 --> 00:18:18,306 people, right? I'm being sarcastic, just in case [Dan -331 +309 00:18:18,306 --> 00:18:22,865 chuckles] y'all can't tell -[chuckles]. But, +[chuckles]. But-- -332 +310 00:18:22,896 --> 00:18:27,126 -yeah. It's like, I'm sure a lot -of -- gosh, so many people in +yeah. It's, like, I'm sure a lot +of-- gosh, so many people in -333 +311 00:18:27,126 --> 00:18:31,356 tech -334 +312 00:18:31,356 --> 00:18:34,656 now, when looking for a job, -it's- it's a slog. Just like +it's- it's a slog. Just, like, -335 +313 00:18:34,656 --> 00:18:37,956 going -336 +314 00:18:37,957 --> 00:18:44,527 -through all this, and getting in +through all this and getting in your inbox, like, "Oh, are you -337 +315 00:18:44,527 --> 00:18:50,211 interested in this?" And, like, another recruiter just shooting -338 +316 00:18:50,211 --> 00:18:58,852 out emails to whoever. And it's nice to have other people -339 +317 00:18:59,392 --> 00:19:07,172 that identify with that, and to -have just like a block of time +have, just like, a block of time -340 +318 00:19:07,592 --> 00:19:10,546 set aside, "Okay, I'm going to work towards my goal of getting -341 +319 00:19:10,546 --> 00:19:13,500 a -342 +320 00:19:13,501 --> 00:19:16,231 job, and this is what I'm gonna do. And these other people are -343 +321 00:19:16,231 --> 00:19:23,031 gonna show up and do the same thing." And so, her and I, and -344 +322 00:19:23,082 --> 00:19:28,971 Aditi ... Green. I'm pretty sure that's her last name. We -345 +323 00:19:28,971 --> 00:19:31,971 showed up, and it was nice. And I think we did it two weeks in a -346 +324 00:19:31,971 --> 00:19:34,971 row, and -347 +325 00:19:36,201 --> 00:19:41,271 then Sarah couldn't make it. So, I just kinda kept it going, and -348 +326 00:19:41,271 --> 00:19:43,101 took it over, and she's like, -"Oh, no. Yeah, that's great. +"Oh, no. Yeah, that's great." -349 +327 00:19:43,101 --> 00:19:44,931 Like, -350 +328 00:19:45,082 --> 00:19:49,069 -definitely do that." And a lot +"Definitely do that." And a lot of people who have joined to our -351 +329 00:19:49,069 --> 00:19:53,056 job -352 +330 00:19:53,057 --> 00:19:58,067 seeking accountabilities group have since left because -353 +331 00:19:58,126 --> 00:20:02,000 they're working during the meetup time. So- -354 +332 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,000 Bekah: Yeay. -355 +333 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:09,385 Meg: -yeah, it's pretty awesome. And ... yeah. Like, people come -356 +334 00:20:09,385 --> 00:20:15,770 -in, say ... like -- just some +in, say ... like-- just some -357 +335 00:20:15,771 --> 00:20:17,316 people come in, and they're like, "Ah, it feels like I've -358 +336 00:20:17,316 --> 00:20:18,861 applied for so -359 +337 00:20:18,862 --> 00:20:22,661 many, and it's just so many -rejections," and, you know, it's +rejections." And, you know, it's -360 +338 00:20:22,661 --> 00:20:26,460 ... I -361 +339 00:20:26,461 --> 00:20:28,801 feel for them cuz, you know, I've been there, you- you guys -362 +340 00:20:28,801 --> 00:20:31,141 have -363 +341 00:20:31,142 --> 00:20:34,622 -been there, like -- I just like, +been there, like-- I just, like, "Okay. You got this. You- you -364 +342 00:20:34,622 --> 00:20:38,102 can keep -365 +343 00:20:38,102 --> 00:20:39,987 going." And I love it when people just drop in, even if -366 +344 00:20:39,987 --> 00:20:41,872 they're not -367 +345 00:20:42,967 --> 00:20:53,467 job seeking. A lot of times, Brett will drop in from -368 -00:20:53,467 --> 00:20:56,992 +346 +00:20:53,467 --> 00:21:00,517 Australia when he's wrapping up -his day on Friday morning — our - -369 -00:20:56,992 --> 00:21:00,517 -Friday +his day on Friday morning-- our -370 +347 00:21:00,517 --> 00:21:03,000 -morning, his Friday evening, I -guess. +Friday morning, his Friday +evening, I guess. -371 +348 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,000 Bekah: That's late. -372 +349 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:04,876 Meg: Yeah. -373 +350 00:21:04,876 --> 00:21:05,047 -Bekah: What is the -- +Bekah: What is the-- -374 +351 00:21:07,136 --> 00:21:09,386 -Meg: It- it's like, his family's -in bed, and he's just like, "Oh, +Meg: It- it's, like, his +family's in bed, and he's just -375 +352 00:21:09,386 --> 00:21:11,636 -yeah. I'm just, +like, "Oh, yeah. I'm just, -376 +353 00:21:12,382 --> 00:21:15,622 -you know, want to come and say +you know, want to come, and say hi, and keep you company while I -377 +354 00:21:15,622 --> 00:21:18,862 -do this and --" +do this." And-- -378 +355 00:21:20,747 --> 00:21:24,436 -Bekah: When you -- so you ran it +Bekah: When you-- so you ran it through Zoom, and you have -379 +356 00:21:24,436 --> 00:21:26,386 recently been breaking it into different rooms, right? -380 +357 00:21:27,372 --> 00:21:30,657 Meg: Yeah. Yeah. Because sometimes we have ... a good -381 +358 00:21:30,657 --> 00:21:33,942 amount -382 +359 00:21:33,942 --> 00:21:37,299 of people come out, and, you -know, other -- everyone has +know, other-- everyone has -383 +360 00:21:37,299 --> 00:21:40,656 their own way of -384 +361 00:21:40,777 --> 00:21:43,341 working. If someone needs it's be a little quieter, you know, -385 +362 00:21:43,341 --> 00:21:45,905 like a -386 +363 00:21:46,596 --> 00:21:48,741 breakout room for quiet -co-working, or you're just in +co-working or you're just in -387 +364 00:21:48,741 --> 00:21:50,886 that -388 +365 00:21:50,886 --> 00:21:53,121 -flow, but you have the presence +flow but you have the presence of another person. Like, -389 +366 00:21:53,121 --> 00:21:55,356 somehow, -390 +367 00:21:55,356 --> 00:21:57,216 that just makes you feel more accountable. Having someone -391 +368 00:21:57,216 --> 00:21:59,076 there. -392 +369 00:21:59,646 --> 00:22:04,269 And then, since this month, -we're doing like, I don't -- +we're doing, like, I don't-- -393 +370 00:22:04,269 --> 00:22:08,892 -like +like, -394 +371 00:22:09,071 --> 00:22:13,001 job-search-type monthly challenge. I've been adding -395 +372 00:22:13,001 --> 00:22:16,931 breakout -396 +373 00:22:16,932 --> 00:22:23,442 rooms for people who want resume -reviews, or who are working on +reviews or who are working on -397 +374 00:22:23,442 --> 00:22:32,082 their cover letters. If they -have anything specific, and +have anything specific and -398 +375 00:22:33,551 --> 00:22:36,721 got their resume reviewed, say, they can meet with whoever -399 +376 00:22:36,721 --> 00:22:39,891 reviewed it in a -400 +377 00:22:39,922 --> 00:22:46,491 breakout room. And I guess I'll be adding different one soon. -401 +378 00:22:46,491 --> 00:22:52,192 -The elevator pitch room, and +The elevator pitch room and portfolio ... stuff room. -402 +379 00:22:53,001 --> 00:22:54,561 -Bekah: Yeah. The second half -- +Bekah: Yeah. The second half-- well, that starts today. I- I -403 +380 00:22:54,561 --> 00:22:56,121 was off today, -404 +381 00:22:56,122 --> 00:22:58,491 so I keep forgetting it's Monday. -405 +382 00:23:00,561 --> 00:23:02,961 Meg: What [chuckles]? I think I worked today. Can't be Monday. -406 +383 00:23:03,432 --> 00:23:04,466 Bekah: I mean, my kids are home. Like, my kids have been home -407 +384 00:23:04,466 --> 00:23:05,500 since -408 +385 00:23:05,741 --> 00:23:07,241 last Wednesday. So, all the -sense of time is like, it's- +sense of time is, like, it's- -409 +386 00:23:07,241 --> 00:23:08,741 it's -410 +387 00:23:08,741 --> 00:23:09,041 -gone. Like [laughs] -- +gone. Like [laughs]-- -411 +388 00:23:09,646 --> 00:23:12,227 Meg: You're slackers. You need -to be back in school. [Chuckles] +to be back in school [chuckles]. -412 +389 00:23:12,642 --> 00:23:15,579 Bekah: Right? I know [chuckles]. I love it. Having that -413 +390 00:23:15,579 --> 00:23:18,516 accountability does -414 +391 00:23:18,517 --> 00:23:22,807 make a huge difference. Because sometimes it just seems so hard. -415 +392 00:23:22,807 --> 00:23:24,471 Like, you don't wanna do it one more time, you don't want one -416 -00:23:24,471 --> 00:23:26,135 -more - -417 -00:23:26,136 --> 00:23:28,311 -rejection, you're tired of +393 +00:23:24,471 --> 00:23:28,311 +more rejection, you're tired of writing cover letters. But -418 +394 00:23:28,311 --> 00:23:30,486 knowing that -419 +395 00:23:30,487 --> 00:23:32,916 there's somebody else there seems to make it- it- it feels -420 -00:23:32,916 --> 00:23:35,345 -easier - -421 -00:23:35,346 --> 00:23:36,696 -when you have that +396 +00:23:32,916 --> 00:23:36,696 +easier when you have that accountability. -422 +397 00:23:37,541 --> 00:23:39,676 Meg: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And sometimes, you need to just vent -423 +398 00:23:39,676 --> 00:23:41,811 to other people who -424 +399 00:23:41,842 --> 00:23:47,122 -get it, or celebrate with other +get it or celebrate with other people. Like, "Oh my god, I just -425 +400 00:23:47,122 --> 00:23:51,081 got an interview," or, "I just got this rejection email right -426 +401 00:23:51,081 --> 00:23:55,040 now." -427 +402 00:23:55,162 --> 00:24:03,221 And, you know, either one, you gonna get- you gonna get re- -428 -00:24:05,321 --> 00:24:08,541 +403 +00:24:05,321 --> 00:24:11,761 supportive response for either event, just from Virtual Coffee -429 -00:24:08,541 --> 00:24:11,761 -in - -430 +404 00:24:11,761 --> 00:24:18,751 -general. But you're in the +in general. But you're in the accountability buddies session. -431 +405 00:24:20,102 --> 00:24:22,546 Yeah, you can definitely find what you need there. What are -432 -00:24:22,546 --> 00:24:24,990 -you looking - -433 -00:24:24,991 --> 00:24:25,422 -around there [chuckles]? +406 +00:24:22,546 --> 00:24:25,422 +you looking around there +[chuckles]? -434 +407 00:24:25,547 --> 00:24:28,606 -Bekah: There- there is like -something -- there's some noise +Bekah: There- there is, like, +something-- there's some noise -435 +408 00:24:28,606 --> 00:24:31,876 -happening in my room, on the +happening in my room-- on the other side of the room. But we -436 +409 00:24:31,876 --> 00:24:34,351 -don't have animals, and none of +don't have animals and none of my children are in here. So, -437 +410 00:24:34,351 --> 00:24:36,826 like, my -438 +411 00:24:36,826 --> 00:24:38,476 12-years-old convinced that there's a ghost in our house -439 +412 00:24:38,476 --> 00:24:40,126 because he -440 +413 00:24:40,126 --> 00:24:41,686 heard a splash in his closet one night, and then there was all -441 +414 00:24:41,686 --> 00:24:43,246 this water on -442 +415 00:24:43,247 --> 00:24:45,257 the floor, okay? But it didn't -drip from it, and from anywhere. +drip from it and from anywhere. -443 -00:24:45,257 --> 00:24:47,267 -There - -444 -00:24:47,267 --> 00:24:48,956 -wasn't a glass or anything -there. I, like, literally, I was +416 +00:24:45,257 --> 00:24:48,956 +There wasn't a glass or anything +there. I-- like, literally, I -445 +417 00:24:48,956 --> 00:24:50,645 -like, "I +was like, "I -446 +418 00:24:50,646 --> 00:24:52,011 wonder if that was a pregnant -mouse, and its water broke." And +mouse and its water broke." And -447 +419 00:24:52,011 --> 00:24:53,376 then I -448 +420 00:24:53,376 --> 00:24:56,826 was like, "That's too much water for a pregnant mouse," I think. -449 +421 00:24:57,457 --> 00:24:57,936 -Anyway ... so [chuckles] -- +Anyway ... so [chuckles]-- -450 +422 00:24:59,182 --> 00:25:02,291 Meg: Wait. Your 12-year-old came up with a pregnant mouse? -451 -00:25:02,436 --> 00:25:03,531 +423 +00:25:02,436 --> 00:25:04,626 Bekah: No, that was me. I came up with a pregnant mouse. He -452 -00:25:03,531 --> 00:25:04,626 -thought - -453 +424 00:25:04,626 --> 00:25:06,277 -it was a ghost. So [chuckles] -- +thought it was a ghost. So +[chuckles]-- -454 +425 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,000 Dan: Oh my god [chuckles]. -455 +426 00:25:10,352 --> 00:25:14,432 Meg: I thought he thought it was the ghost of a pregnant mouse. -456 +427 00:25:14,666 --> 00:25:17,146 Bekah: Well, that's even better [Meg chuckles]. But we didn't -457 -00:25:17,146 --> 00:25:19,626 -find any mice babies ... - -458 -00:25:20,797 --> 00:25:21,247 -either. +428 +00:25:17,146 --> 00:25:21,247 +find any mice babies ... either. -459 +429 00:25:21,412 --> 00:25:25,706 -Meg: Oh. Yeah. That's -- let's +Meg: Oh. Yeah. That's-- let's ... not touch that one for now. -460 +430 00:25:25,706 --> 00:25:30,000 Leaving it. -461 +431 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,000 Bekah: [Laughs] Would you that [??]? -462 +432 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,600 Meg: Oh, what if you open the -door, at the closet, and Gritty +door at the closet, and Gritty -463 -00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,200 -would staring - -464 -00:25:39,201 --> 00:25:39,981 -out at you? +433 +00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,981 +would staring out at you? -465 +434 00:25:41,247 --> 00:25:43,007 Bekah: That would be super freaky. -466 +435 00:25:43,521 --> 00:25:44,082 Meg: Yeah, right? -467 +436 00:25:44,092 --> 00:25:47,332 Bekah: What if it the ghost of -Gritty, with the ghost of the +Gritty with the ghost of the -468 +437 00:25:47,332 --> 00:25:47,961 pregnant mouse? -469 +438 00:25:47,961 --> 00:25:51,182 Dan: Oh my god [chuckles]. -470 +439 00:25:51,182 --> 00:25:53,000 Meg: But Gritty's still alive. -471 +440 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:53,000 Bekah: Mm. -472 +441 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,000 Meg: He can never die. -473 +442 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,535 Bekah: Well, also, I think the mouse would probably not be -474 +443 00:25:56,535 --> 00:25:58,070 pregnant anymore -475 +444 00:25:58,071 --> 00:25:59,535 if her water broke. So, the ghost of the once pregnant -476 +445 00:25:59,535 --> 00:26:00,999 mouse- -477 +446 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,000 -Dan: That's [chuckles] -- +Dan: That's [chuckles]-- -478 +447 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,000 Bekah: -be held by real-life Gritty. -479 +448 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:09,000 Dan: This is- this is going down real fast [laughs]. -480 +449 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,718 Bekah: Told you I'm not responsible [chuckles] ... for -481 +450 00:26:11,718 --> 00:26:14,436 my brain at this time of night. -482 +451 00:26:14,436 --> 00:26:16,201 Dan: Oh, man. -483 +452 00:26:16,201 --> 00:26:19,641 Meg: Can I just mention that ... we're mentioning Gritty ... this -484 +453 00:26:19,641 --> 00:26:23,081 is the -485 +454 00:26:23,132 --> 00:26:30,096 8th time. Because it was a request from Party Tom for this -486 +455 00:26:30,096 --> 00:26:33,767 episode. And Party Tom gets what Party Tom wants [chuckles]. -487 +456 00:26:34,317 --> 00:26:34,707 Dan: That's right. -488 +457 00:26:34,807 --> 00:26:35,196 Bekah: That's right. -489 +458 00:26:36,836 --> 00:26:41,303 Dan: So ... Gritty [all laughs]. -We, you know, Meg -- I- I forget +We, you know, Meg-- I- I forget -490 +459 00:26:41,303 --> 00:26:45,770 if we said this on the recording -491 +460 00:26:45,771 --> 00:26:47,541 or not, but Meg asked on Slack for questions, you know, for- -492 +461 00:26:47,541 --> 00:26:49,311 for -493 +462 00:26:49,311 --> 00:26:54,321 -her -- for- for this- for this +her-- for- for this- for this podcast episode. And there was a -494 +463 00:26:54,321 --> 00:26:56,811 lot of good questions, but lot of them were about Philly cuz -495 +464 00:26:57,281 --> 00:26:59,941 Meg is from Philly. And, you know, Philly is pretty ... -496 +465 00:26:59,941 --> 00:27:02,601 unique, you -497 +466 00:27:02,602 --> 00:27:03,757 know? I don't know. And- and- -and awesome, but yeah. You know +and awesome, but yeah. You -498 +467 00:27:03,757 --> 00:27:04,912 --- +know-- -499 +468 00:27:04,912 --> 00:27:06,199 Meg: You mean, use [unintelligible] alone a great -500 +469 00:27:06,199 --> 00:27:07,486 -question. You're bouncing [??] --- +question. You're bouncing [??]-- -501 +470 00:27:09,711 --> 00:27:11,991 -Dan: I- I have -- and- and, you -know, I -- we've -- Meg and I +Dan: I- I have-- and- and, you +know, I-- we've-- Meg and I -502 +471 00:27:11,991 --> 00:27:14,271 have talked -503 +472 00:27:14,271 --> 00:27:15,861 about this, but I- I work with some- some people from Philly. -504 +473 00:27:15,861 --> 00:27:17,451 -The- +The- the -505 -00:27:17,451 --> 00:27:19,356 -the other side of Sprocket is- -is based in Philly. And so I get - -506 -00:27:19,356 --> 00:27:21,261 -a +474 +00:27:17,451 --> 00:27:21,261 +other side of Sprokets is- is +based in Philly. And so, I get -507 +475 00:27:21,261 --> 00:27:23,692 -little bit of Philly culture -just from that. And, one of the +a little bit of Philly culture +just from that. And one of the -508 +476 00:27:23,692 --> 00:27:27,832 favorite words that I've ever learned is the word 'jawn'. -509 +477 00:27:28,372 --> 00:27:29,931 And I'm sure I'm not saying it well, because I'm, you know, -510 +478 00:27:29,931 --> 00:27:31,490 from Cleveland- -511 +479 00:27:31,491 --> 00:27:32,000 Meg: No. You got it. -512 +480 00:27:31,491 --> 00:27:33,899 Dan: -and not Philly. But can -you- can you just -- well, I +you- can you just-- well, I -513 +481 00:27:33,899 --> 00:27:36,307 suppose you'll have to -514 +482 00:27:36,487 --> 00:27:37,000 spell it for our listeners, and then- -515 +483 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:37,000 Meg: Yes. -516 +484 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,768 Dan: -can- can you just sort of define it, and then maybe use it -517 +485 00:27:40,768 --> 00:27:43,536 in a sentence or two? Just as a- -518 +486 00:27:43,547 --> 00:27:44,946 as a- as a native, you know? I always try to explain it to -519 +487 00:27:44,946 --> 00:27:46,345 -people, but I -- +people, but I-- it- -520 +488 00:27:46,497 --> 00:27:48,331 -it- it feels, you know, it does --- it feel -- it doesn't feel +it feels, you know, it does-- it +feel-- it doesn't feel -521 +489 00:27:48,331 --> 00:27:50,165 right, me -522 +490 00:27:50,166 --> 00:27:52,186 talking about it, you know? So -[Meg chuckles], can you- can you +[Meg chuckles], can you- can -523 +491 00:27:52,186 --> 00:27:54,206 --- yeah. Can you -- can -- lay +you-- yeah. Can you-- can-- lay on -524 +492 00:27:54,207 --> 00:27:55,656 some- some Philly knowledge for us? -525 +493 00:27:56,622 --> 00:28:01,921 Meg: Yes. Jawn is spelled J.A.W.N. It has nothing to do -526 +494 00:28:01,921 --> 00:28:07,220 with sex -527 +495 00:28:07,221 --> 00:28:11,110 work. That's the first thing that people think of when they -528 +496 00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:14,999 -hear that word. And -- +hear that word. And-- -529 +497 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,000 -Dan: Is this [laughs] -- +Dan: Is this [laughs]-- -530 +498 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,000 Bekah: No! What [laughs]? -531 +499 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,000 -Dan: This is [laughs] -- +Dan: This is [laughs]-- -532 +500 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:26,245 Meg: I- I've got in that reaction pretty much every time -533 +501 00:28:26,245 --> 00:28:31,490 that word comes up. [Chuckles] So, -534 +502 00:28:32,192 --> 00:28:37,994 jawn is ... just in place of a thing. It's a thing. It ca- it -535 +503 00:28:37,994 --> 00:28:43,796 -can be used as +can be used as, -536 +504 00:28:43,797 --> 00:28:50,757 -like a noun, or adjective, or +like, a noun, or adjective, or adverb ... maybe a verb, I'm not -537 +505 00:28:50,757 --> 00:28:51,297 sure. -538 +506 00:28:51,862 --> 00:28:52,431 Dan: I mean, that's- that's one of the things I love the most -539 +507 00:28:52,431 --> 00:28:53,000 about it- -540 +508 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,000 Bekah: Jawn it. -541 +509 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,000 Dan: -is its utility. -542 +510 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:55,000 Meg: Yeah. -543 +511 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,000 -Dan: So, can you -- +Dan: So, can you-- -544 +512 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,806 Bekah: I still don't understand what it means though. Like, -545 +513 00:28:58,806 --> 00:29:00,612 [laughs] I- I need more than that. -546 +514 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:00,000 -Dan: Can- can -- +Dan: Can- can-- -547 +515 00:29:00,626 --> 00:29:02,876 -Meg: It's a thing. Like +Meg: It's a thing. Like, something. -548 +516 00:29:04,251 --> 00:29:05,000 -Dan: Can you just, like, can you -just use it? +Dan: Can you just, like-- can +you just use it? -549 +517 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,000 Bekah: Can you use it in a sentence? -550 +518 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,000 -Dan: Yeah-yeah-yeah. To -- +Dan: Yeah-yeah-yeah. To-- -551 +519 00:29:08,251 --> 00:29:12,818 Meg: Okay. Like ... okay. For instance, today, Nerando was -552 +520 00:29:12,818 --> 00:29:17,385 ragging on Kirk -553 -00:29:18,017 --> 00:29:21,167 +521 +00:29:18,017 --> 00:29:24,317 for his hair being too long and saying, "You need a haircut." -554 -00:29:21,167 --> 00:29:24,317 -Someone - -555 +522 00:29:24,317 --> 00:29:27,057 -from Philly would say, "Yo, cut -that jawn." +Someone from Philly would say, +"Yo, cut that jawn." -556 +523 00:29:32,626 --> 00:29:35,021 Dan: [Laughs] Yeah-yeah. Or a ... alright. I'm gonna try it -557 +524 00:29:35,021 --> 00:29:37,416 out. But you tell -558 +525 00:29:37,426 --> 00:29:39,131 -me if it's wrong. It's, you know --- but, like ... alright. So +me if it's wrong. It's-- you +know, but-- like ... alright. -559 +526 00:29:39,131 --> 00:29:40,836 -today +So today, -560 -00:29:40,836 --> 00:29:43,326 +527 +00:29:40,836 --> 00:29:45,816 I was writing some React, you know, stuff. And then I needed -561 -00:29:43,326 --> 00:29:45,816 -to - -562 +528 00:29:45,817 --> 00:29:47,886 -save some states. So I used that -useState jawn. +to save some states. So I used +that useState jawn. -563 +529 00:29:48,662 --> 00:29:48,902 Meg: Yeah. There you go. -564 +530 00:29:49,912 --> 00:29:51,397 Dan: Is that alright? Yeah. That's easy. I can do it, see? -565 +531 00:29:51,397 --> 00:29:52,882 I- I have a -566 +532 00:29:52,882 --> 00:29:53,971 -little Philly -- yeah. As I was -saying, I worked for -- with - -567 -00:29:53,971 --> 00:29:55,060 -some [crosstalk] Philly, +little Philly-- yeah. As I was +saying, I worked for-- with -568 -00:29:55,061 --> 00:29:56,000 -so I get a little exposure. +533 +00:29:53,971 --> 00:29:56,000 +some [crosstalk] Philly, so I +get a little exposure. -569 +534 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,000 Meg: I mean, you were knighted. -570 +535 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,000 Dan: That's right- -571 +536 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,000 Meg: By the power vested in me -by Philly [??] -- +by Philly [??]-- -572 +537 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,405 Dan: -Meg knighted me because I- I translated a Philly- Philly -573 -00:30:00,405 --> 00:30:02,810 +538 +00:30:00,405 --> 00:30:03,201 billboard. I only got one thing - -574 -00:30:02,811 --> 00:30:03,201 wrong [laughs]. -575 +539 00:30:04,656 --> 00:30:06,277 Meg: Yeah, like [unintelligible] -semantic -- +semantic-- -576 +540 00:30:06,666 --> 00:30:08,547 Bekah: So it's- it's a placeholder word. -577 +541 00:30:09,741 --> 00:30:10,371 Dan: Yeah, yeah. It- it's -[crosstalk] a word that you can +[crosstalk] a word that you -578 +542 00:30:10,371 --> 00:30:11,001 --- +can-- -579 +543 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,208 -Bekah: It's like, if you don't -know -- like a 'thingamabobber', - -580 -00:30:12,208 --> 00:30:14,416 -or 'whatchamacallit' +Bekah: It's like if you don't +know-- like a 'thingamabobber' -581 -00:30:14,696 --> 00:30:15,747 -that can be a jawn. +544 +00:30:12,208 --> 00:30:15,747 +or 'whatchamacallit', that can +be a jawn. -582 +545 00:30:15,866 --> 00:30:16,406 Meg: Yeah. -583 +546 00:30:16,771 --> 00:30:17,521 Dan: [Chuckles] Right. Right. If you're not from the 40s -584 +547 00:30:17,521 --> 00:30:18,271 [laughs]. -585 +548 00:30:19,767 --> 00:30:22,546 Meg: It's a full versioning of 'thingamabobber', 'doodad', -586 +549 00:30:22,546 --> 00:30:25,325 'whatchamacallit', a 'whozitwhatzit' [laughs]. -587 +550 00:30:26,054 --> 00:30:28,169 Bekah: Alright, there we go. I -get -- I've got it now. Thank +get-- I've got it now. Thank -588 +551 00:30:28,169 --> 00:30:30,284 you. -589 +552 00:30:33,971 --> 00:30:35,591 Dan: [Chuckles] That's awesome. Thank you for that. Thank you -590 -00:30:35,591 --> 00:30:37,211 -for kind of - -591 -00:30:37,211 --> 00:30:38,142 -laying that down for us. +553 +00:30:35,591 --> 00:30:38,142 +for kind of laying that down for +us. -592 +554 00:30:39,355 --> 00:30:42,677 Bekah: So, we have now covered Philly things. And you are still -593 +555 00:30:42,677 --> 00:30:45,999 in Philly- -594 +556 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,000 Meg: Yeah. -595 +557 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,867 Bekah: -and you've talked about other things that you've done in -596 +558 00:30:51,867 --> 00:30:55,734 -the past as -- with -- you- you +the past as-- with-- you- you had -597 +559 00:30:55,734 --> 00:30:57,867 an animal ... what business? -[Crosstalk] Why -- you watched +[Crosstalk] Why-- you watched -598 +560 00:30:57,867 --> 00:31:00,000 animals? -599 +561 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,000 Meg: Oh. Pet sitting business. -600 +562 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:02,000 Bekah: Okay. -601 +563 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:03,000 Meg: Yeah. -602 +564 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,529 Bekah: And you have a Spanish degree. So, how- how of these -603 +565 00:31:07,529 --> 00:31:12,058 past experiences play into ... what you're doing now? -604 +566 00:31:13,329 --> 00:31:21,769 Meg: That's a great question. They make for ... interesting -605 +567 00:31:21,769 --> 00:31:27,037 stories [Bekah chuckles]. That's one. For Spanish, it does come -606 +568 00:31:27,037 --> 00:31:32,305 up in -607 +569 00:31:32,305 --> 00:31:42,805 translation, sometimes in, like, working. And there's a lot of -608 +570 00:31:42,805 --> 00:31:44,664 Spanish speakers in my area. -609 +571 00:31:46,490 --> 00:31:50,150 Bekah: I mentioned to learning a different language when you're -610 +572 00:31:50,150 --> 00:31:52,490 -learning to code it, there's -- +learning to code, it-- there's-- it's similar, right? There's -611 +573 00:31:52,490 --> 00:31:56,569 overlap in how you learn and retain that knowledge. -612 +574 00:31:57,305 --> 00:32:02,149 Meg: Yeah, I- I ... am pretty sure that I wrote a blog post -613 +575 00:32:02,149 --> 00:32:06,993 about ... yeah. -614 +576 00:32:07,025 --> 00:32:10,545 -There's -- I've wrote blog post +There's-- I've wrote blog post about, like, learning Spanish, -615 +577 00:32:10,545 --> 00:32:14,065 and -616 +578 00:32:16,015 --> 00:32:19,824 learning code, and how that was, like, similar. It's my "Little -617 -00:32:19,824 --> 00:32:23,633 -Things - -618 -00:32:23,634 --> 00:32:25,194 -Matter" blog posts. +579 +00:32:19,824 --> 00:32:25,194 +Things Matter" blog posts. -619 +580 00:32:25,724 --> 00:32:26,204 Bekah: Oh, I see it. Not enough -[??] -- +[??]-- -620 +581 00:32:27,025 --> 00:32:31,629 Meg: Yeah. So, like, very small things like, "Hey, I- I forgot a -621 +582 00:32:31,629 --> 00:32:36,233 -colon or +colon—or -622 +583 00:32:36,234 --> 00:32:46,674 whatever in coding ... makes stuff fail. And in Spanish, -623 +584 00:32:47,244 --> 00:32:52,555 -stressing the wrong syllable, or +stressing the wrong syllable or, like, pronouncing, like, -624 +585 00:32:52,674 --> 00:32:53,934 pronunciation --" -625 +586 00:32:54,049 --> 00:32:56,014 Bekah: Did I tell you my story about Spanish, and sleeping, and -626 +587 00:32:56,014 --> 00:32:57,979 married before? -627 +588 00:32:59,285 --> 00:33:02,825 -Meg: Yeah. Co- cuz ... oh, I -- +Meg: Yeah. Co- cuz ... oh, I-- -628 +589 00:33:04,545 --> 00:33:05,505 Bekah: No, I was tired. -629 +590 00:33:05,555 --> 00:33:08,045 Meg: Yeah, you did. You did tell me. But I think you should tell -630 -00:33:08,045 --> 00:33:10,535 -it - -631 -00:33:10,535 --> 00:33:10,865 -again. +591 +00:33:08,045 --> 00:33:10,865 +it again. -632 +592 00:33:12,295 --> 00:33:14,170 Bekah: When I was, maybe 19, I went to language school in Costa -633 -00:33:14,170 --> 00:33:16,045 -Rica by - -634 -00:33:16,045 --> 00:33:19,464 -myself. And then, I had to take -a taxi home -- or to the +593 +00:33:14,170 --> 00:33:19,464 +Rica by myself. And then, I had +to take a taxi home-- or to the -635 +594 00:33:19,464 --> 00:33:22,883 airport. And the -636 -00:33:23,125 --> 00:33:25,644 -cab driver -- okay. So, though -there's, 'cansado' and 'casado'. - -637 -00:33:25,644 --> 00:33:28,163 -One +595 +00:33:23,125 --> 00:33:28,163 +cab driver-- okay. So, though +there's 'cansado' and 'casado', -638 +596 00:33:28,164 --> 00:33:30,711 -means tired, right, and one +one means tired, right, and one means married. And so I thought -639 +597 00:33:30,711 --> 00:33:33,258 that -640 +598 00:33:33,259 --> 00:33:38,150 he asked me if I was tired, and I said a little bit. But he was -641 +599 00:33:38,150 --> 00:33:40,084 really asking me if I was married [Dan chuckles]. And so I -642 +600 00:33:40,084 --> 00:33:42,018 told him little -643 +601 00:33:42,019 --> 00:33:44,194 bit. And then he asked me if he could hold my hand. And then I -644 +602 00:33:44,194 --> 00:33:46,369 was afraid he -645 +603 00:33:46,369 --> 00:33:48,592 was going to kill me. So I held his hand for the [chuckles] 40 -646 +604 00:33:48,592 --> 00:33:50,815 minute ride to the -647 +605 00:33:50,815 --> 00:33:52,690 airport. So I- I highly recommend not telling anybody -648 +606 00:33:52,690 --> 00:33:54,565 that you're a -649 +607 00:33:54,565 --> 00:33:58,974 little bit married. Just- just -go- go -- you can be fully +go- go-- you can be fully -650 +608 00:33:58,974 --> 00:34:01,067 married or fully tired, but don't hold that hand of a taxi -651 -00:34:01,067 --> 00:34:03,160 -driver in Costa - -652 -00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:03,595 -Rica [laughs]. +609 +00:34:01,067 --> 00:34:03,595 +driver in Costa Rica [laughs]. -653 +610 00:34:05,569 --> 00:34:06,889 Dan: Yeah, a little bit seems -like, probably the absolute - -654 -00:34:06,889 --> 00:34:08,209 -worst +like-- probably the absolute -655 -00:34:08,210 --> 00:34:09,289 -answer to that question +611 +00:34:06,889 --> 00:34:09,289 +worst answer to that question [chuckles]. -656 +612 00:34:10,164 --> 00:34:11,905 Bekah: Yeah. Well, I thought I -was tired, so -- +was tired, so-- -657 +613 00:34:12,005 --> 00:34:15,664 Meg: Can I ask you which one's, which? -658 +614 00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:17,260 Bekah: I don't remember, Meg [Bekah and Meg laugh]. -659 +615 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,000 Dan: Lesson learned [chuckles]. -660 +616 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,000 Bekah: I'm not gonna use it at all cost. -661 +617 00:34:23,269 --> 00:34:25,714 Meg: [Laughs] I'm gonna just let you not know, because I want you -662 -00:34:25,714 --> 00:34:28,159 -to make that - -663 -00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:29,269 -same mistake again. +618 +00:34:25,714 --> 00:34:29,269 +to make that same mistake again. -664 +619 00:34:32,518 --> 00:34:33,778 Bekah: Oh, no [chuckles]. Okay. Sorry. I've gotten us off on a -665 +620 00:34:33,778 --> 00:34:35,038 tangent again. -666 +621 00:34:35,458 --> 00:34:37,393 Oh, oh, okay. I know what I wanted to ask. So we both went -667 +622 00:34:37,393 --> 00:34:39,328 to Flatiron, -668 +623 00:34:39,329 --> 00:34:41,399 it's a full-stack bootcamp, right? And I know, for me, I -669 +624 00:34:41,399 --> 00:34:43,469 really enjoyed learning -670 +625 00:34:44,248 --> 00:34:46,133 Ruby and Rails. And I was like, "I'm definitely going to be a -671 +626 00:34:46,133 --> 00:34:48,018 Rails -672 +627 00:34:48,588 --> 00:34:51,498 developer," which I was not -[laughs]. I went to -- somebody +[laughs]. I went to-- somebody -673 +628 00:34:51,498 --> 00:34:54,408 hired me. I -674 +629 00:34:54,409 --> 00:34:56,794 don't know why. And then I worked on React projects -675 +630 00:34:56,794 --> 00:34:59,179 [chuckles], which I thought was -676 +631 00:34:59,179 --> 00:35:03,768 never gonna happen. You have stuck with Ruby [Bekah and Dan -677 +632 00:35:03,768 --> 00:35:08,357 laugh]. And how -678 +633 00:35:08,358 --> 00:35:10,973 -did- how did that -- how did you +did- how did that-- how did you ... stick with it? Did you feel -679 +634 00:35:10,973 --> 00:35:13,588 that -680 +635 00:35:13,588 --> 00:35:16,273 way, or did you wanna stick with -Ruby, or were you, like, where- +Ruby, or were you like, "Where- -681 +636 00:35:16,273 --> 00:35:18,958 -where I find a job, or, you +where I find a job," or, you -682 +637 00:35:19,469 --> 00:35:23,099 -know, what- what -- how did you +know, what- what-- how did you make that decision? -683 +638 00:35:24,398 --> 00:35:30,883 Meg: I ... I think [silence] [exhales] you never forget your -684 +639 00:35:30,883 --> 00:35:37,368 first ... [Bekah and Dan chuckle] you know [chuckles]? -685 +640 00:35:41,528 --> 00:35:46,958 -Meg: Yeah, I really- I really -fell in love with Ruby. And in +Yeah, I really- I really fell in +love with Ruby. And in -686 +641 00:35:49,748 --> 00:35:54,849 Flatiron, the order that they -taught us — which now is +taught us—which now is -687 +642 00:35:55,119 --> 00:36:06,248 -flip-flopped — they did Ruby +flip-flopped—they did Ruby first, and then Sinatra, and -688 +643 00:36:06,309 --> 00:36:11,588 Rails frameworks, and then JavaScript with React and Redux -689 +644 00:36:11,588 --> 00:36:16,755 frameworks. And I think that I -was able to -- I took a longer +was able to-- I took a longer -690 +645 00:36:16,755 --> 00:36:21,922 time -691 +646 00:36:21,954 --> 00:36:27,324 going through Ruby, Sinatra, and -Rails so it allowed me to get +Rails. So it allowed me to get, -692 +647 00:36:27,324 --> 00:36:33,143 -like a really good appreciation -for the language. And also a +like, a really good appreciation +for the language. And also, a -693 +648 00:36:33,143 --> 00:36:36,878 friend of mine from Flatiron, -Heather Miller — she's down in +Heather Miller—she's down in -694 +649 00:36:36,878 --> 00:36:40,613 -DC — +DC—she -695 +650 00:36:41,273 --> 00:36:46,844 -she invited me to this -conference called Ruby for Good. +invited me to this conference +called Ruby for Good. -696 +651 00:36:47,889 --> 00:36:51,548 And that's when I just started -Rails. Both of us. And it was +Rails. Both of us. And it was, -697 +652 00:36:51,548 --> 00:36:55,207 -like the +like, the -698 +653 00:36:55,208 --> 00:36:58,193 people there were so nice. It -was, I think three days, +was-- I think three days, -699 +654 00:36:58,193 --> 00:37:01,178 everyone -700 +655 00:37:01,179 --> 00:37:04,613 was so nice and friendly. We're -making -- we were working on +making-- we were working on -701 +656 00:37:04,613 --> 00:37:08,047 apps -702 +657 00:37:08,048 --> 00:37:14,949 for social good, to do things for people. And I knew next to -703 +658 00:37:14,949 --> 00:37:18,316 nothing, but people were still like, "Oh, you can- you can -704 +659 00:37:18,316 --> 00:37:21,683 totally help. You can -705 +660 00:37:21,864 --> 00:37:24,429 definitely be, you know, a contributing member of our -706 +661 00:37:24,429 --> 00:37:26,994 team." -707 +662 00:37:27,864 --> 00:37:31,163 -And it -- that made me really +And it-- that made me really fall in love with the Ruby -708 +663 00:37:31,163 --> 00:37:34,462 community. -709 +664 00:37:35,333 --> 00:37:44,923 And I found that that's a very ... universal mindset of the -710 +665 00:37:44,923 --> 00:37:47,673 Ruby community. The people are very, very nice, and welcoming, -711 +666 00:37:47,673 --> 00:37:50,423 and -712 +667 00:37:50,423 --> 00:37:56,664 willing to teach. And similarly, that's how the Philly tech -713 +668 00:37:56,693 --> 00:38:04,583 community has been in my personal experience. Before the -714 +669 00:38:04,583 --> 00:38:11,393 pandemic, I was networking a lot in person, and found a lot of -715 +670 00:38:12,684 --> 00:38:23,199 people very welcoming, and open, -like to, you know, a woman in +like, to, you know, a woman in -716 +671 00:38:23,199 --> 00:38:27,798 -tech, and someone from like a +tech, and someone from, like, a nontraditional path. And -717 +672 00:38:27,798 --> 00:38:32,397 Philly's definitely a -718 -00:38:33,628 --> 00:38:42,478 -colorful city, like in different --- in ways of diversity, and +673 +00:38:33,628 --> 00:38:38,053 +colorful city, like, in +different-- in ways of -719 +674 +00:38:38,053 --> 00:38:42,478 +diversity, and + +675 00:38:42,478 --> 00:38:48,543 it's blending- it's blending into the tech community heavily. -720 +676 00:38:48,664 --> 00:38:56,474 And I think ... that makes it very welcoming. And I saw just -721 +677 00:38:56,474 --> 00:38:59,353 both of those in the Ruby community and Philly tech -722 +678 00:38:59,353 --> 00:39:04,844 community. The- the issue was, -there- there weren't -- there +there- there weren't-- there -723 +679 00:39:04,844 --> 00:39:13,539 wasn't a lot of Ruby on Rails in Philly at the time. So I was -724 +680 00:39:13,539 --> 00:39:17,588 just like, "Oh, no." So I was ready to get a job's doing -725 -00:39:17,588 --> 00:39:23,528 +681 +00:39:17,588 --> 00:39:20,558 anything. But then, once the -pandemic happened, like a silver +pandemic happened, like, a -726 +682 +00:39:20,558 --> 00:39:23,528 +silver + +683 00:39:23,528 --> 00:39:29,139 -lining of that, was remote work. +lining of that was remote work. Now the world is my oyster. I -727 +684 00:39:29,139 --> 00:39:32,859 could get a Rails job for anywhere, just working from my -728 +685 00:39:32,859 --> 00:39:36,579 desk at -729 +686 00:39:36,579 --> 00:39:41,409 home. So that definitely- that definitely helped with my -730 -00:39:41,409 --> 00:39:44,588 -job search, having like that +687 +00:39:41,409 --> 00:39:47,767 +job search, having, like, that focus on Rails jobs. Like, this -731 -00:39:44,588 --> 00:39:47,767 -is - -732 +688 00:39:47,768 --> 00:39:50,903 -what I love, this is what I +is what I love, this is what I wanna do. And, especially, -733 +689 00:39:50,903 --> 00:39:54,038 having -734 +690 00:39:54,039 --> 00:40:02,318 like- like now, I'm on the core team of Ruby for Good. And I -735 +691 00:40:02,318 --> 00:40:06,373 -enjoy -- I really enjoy doing +enjoy-- I really enjoy doing that, and work that's -736 +692 00:40:06,373 --> 00:40:10,428 meaningful, and -737 +693 00:40:10,429 --> 00:40:19,369 fulfilling, and that it helps people. So that was like -738 +694 00:40:19,369 --> 00:40:21,423 -something that I really would've --- like, to do as well. And I +something that I really +would've, like, to do as well. -739 +695 00:40:21,423 --> 00:40:23,477 -was targeting +And I was targeting -740 +696 00:40:23,478 --> 00:40:28,759 companies like that, that were Rails companies as well. -741 +697 00:40:31,403 --> 00:40:33,458 -Dan: Is the -- so your position +Dan: Is the-- so your position with Ruby for Good is a -742 +698 00:40:33,458 --> 00:40:35,513 volunteer ... [crosstalk] position, right? -743 +699 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:34,000 Meg: Yeah. Yeah. -744 +700 00:40:36,054 --> 00:40:37,764 -Dan: As -- I- I was pretty sure -that -- is- is that -- so, can +Dan: As-- I- I was pretty sure +that-- is- is that-- so, can -745 +701 00:40:37,764 --> 00:40:39,474 you talk a little bit more -746 +702 00:40:39,653 --> 00:40:41,963 about, like, what you- what you all do as an organization? I -747 +703 00:40:41,963 --> 00:40:44,273 think you- I -748 +704 00:40:44,273 --> 00:40:46,224 think you talked a little bit about their conference, but, you -749 +705 00:40:46,224 --> 00:40:48,083 know, can you just kinda explain Ruby for Good as a, you know, as -750 -00:40:48,083 --> 00:40:49,942 -a- as an - -751 -00:40:49,943 --> 00:40:50,784 -organization and -- +706 +00:40:48,083 --> 00:40:50,784 +a-- as an organization and-- -752 +707 00:40:52,373 --> 00:40:56,243 -Meg: You're saying -- yeah. Ruby -for Good is a nonprofit, and +Meg: You're saying-- yeah. Ruby +for Good is a nonprofit and -753 +708 00:40:56,243 --> 00:41:00,113 it's volunteer led. -754 +709 00:41:00,233 --> 00:41:10,164 Sean Marcia is the founder, and -it's largely -- it's- it's based +it's largely-- it's- it's based -755 +710 00:41:10,164 --> 00:41:16,974 in DC. So the membership is largely in DC. But definitely -756 +711 00:41:16,974 --> 00:41:20,859 expanding. And basically, it's uses something called -757 +712 00:41:20,859 --> 00:41:24,744 skills-based -758 +713 00:41:24,744 --> 00:41:30,728 volunteering, which is people in the tech community use their -759 +714 00:41:31,028 --> 00:41:36,849 specialized set of skills, like Liam Neeson. But they do good -760 +715 00:41:36,849 --> 00:41:41,558 things to them [chuckles]. They build software for other -761 +716 00:41:41,558 --> 00:41:46,267 nonprofits, -762 +717 00:41:46,449 --> 00:41:55,994 -and -- so that might be like a -website, or a sign-up form, or +and-- so that might be like a +website, or a sign-up form, or, -763 +718 00:41:56,833 --> 00:42:05,353 -like an actual software system. -Something that it -- like, are +like, an actual software system. +Something that it-- like, are -764 +719 00:42:06,313 --> 00:42:08,263 -probably -- I think is the -oldest project, and probably the +probably-- I think is the oldest +project—and probably the -765 +720 00:42:08,263 --> 00:42:10,213 -biggest, +biggest—is -766 +721 00:42:10,244 --> 00:42:17,054 -is called Human Essentials. It -was rebranded from Diaper Based, +called Human Essentials. It was +rebranded from Diaper Based, -767 +722 00:42:17,804 --> 00:42:26,143 and it had started out as ... inventory management system for -768 +723 00:42:26,173 --> 00:42:30,838 Diaper Banks, and ... it- it started like that. And then, it -769 +724 00:42:30,838 --> 00:42:35,503 grew because -770 +725 00:42:35,534 --> 00:42:37,994 they're like, "Okay, this -awesome." Now look at -- the +awesome." Now look at-- the -771 +726 00:42:37,994 --> 00:42:40,454 Diaper Banks are -772 +727 00:42:40,454 --> 00:42:42,298 receiving these products, they're giving the products to -773 +728 00:42:42,298 --> 00:42:44,142 -their +their partners, -774 +729 00:42:44,143 --> 00:42:49,844 -partners like churches, and food +like churches, and food pantries, and homeless shelters -775 +730 00:42:49,873 --> 00:42:56,083 -who then to -- distribute the +who then to-- distribute the products to families. So they -776 +731 00:42:56,083 --> 00:43:01,873 -wanted a way to -- for their +wanted a way to-- for their partners to track what was -777 +732 00:43:01,873 --> 00:43:04,918 needed, and who got stuff. So they made Partner Base to go -778 +733 00:43:04,918 --> 00:43:07,963 along -779 +734 00:43:08,684 --> 00:43:11,008 with Diaper Base. Then it's like, "Okay. Well, these items -780 +735 00:43:11,008 --> 00:43:13,332 aren't -781 +736 00:43:13,333 --> 00:43:18,248 just diapers. They're also feminine care products, soaps, -782 +737 00:43:18,268 --> 00:43:22,483 creams, like shampoos, things like that." So, they kind of -783 +738 00:43:22,483 --> 00:43:26,698 merged -784 -00:43:26,699 --> 00:43:30,584 +739 +00:43:26,699 --> 00:43:34,469 both of 'em together, and called -it Human Essentials in -- and - -785 -00:43:30,584 --> 00:43:34,469 -serving +it Human Essentials in-- and -786 +740 00:43:35,128 --> 00:43:39,000 -almost 200 Diaper Banks right -now. But then- +serving almost 200 Diaper Banks +right now. But then- -787 +741 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,000 Dan: That's ... really cool. -788 +742 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:46,142 Meg: -there's also stuff, like, there's a- a lending library in -789 +743 00:43:46,142 --> 00:43:52,284 -Chicago, that -- it's a +Chicago, that-- it's a circulation system -790 +744 00:43:52,373 --> 00:43:57,079 for, like, tools and other types of equipment for this lending -791 +745 00:43:57,079 --> 00:44:01,785 -library. And CASA — +library. And CASA—Court -792 +746 00:44:02,126 --> 00:44:07,139 -court appointed advocate -- let -me look it up real quicks. I +Appointed Advocate-- let me look +it up real quicks. I -793 +747 00:44:07,139 --> 00:44:08,340 -don't want to -- +don't want to-- -794 +748 00:44:08,469 --> 00:44:08,949 -Dan: A special advocate -- -court- court of -- Court +Dan: A special advocate-- court- +court of-- Court -795 +749 00:44:08,949 --> 00:44:09,429 Appointed Special Advocate. -796 +750 00:44:10,170 --> 00:44:12,539 Meg: Yeah. Court Appointed Special Advocate. -797 +751 00:44:12,789 --> 00:44:13,239 Dan: Like, I google from there [??] [chuckles]. -798 +752 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:22,179 Meg: And that's just a system to track volunteer time. So it- -799 +753 00:44:22,539 --> 00:44:26,167 it ranges for different needs, -and it's -- it feels like it's +and it's-- it feels like it's -800 +754 00:44:26,167 --> 00:44:29,795 -all open-source +all open source -801 +755 00:44:29,795 --> 00:44:34,385 contribution. So people can get involved with just one -802 +756 00:44:34,385 --> 00:44:40,175 -project, do it like one or two +project, do it, like, one or two pull requests and be done, or -803 +757 00:44:40,175 --> 00:44:46,864 they can get involved heavily. -And these projects have like +And these projects have, like, -804 +758 00:44:47,644 --> 00:44:50,224 weekly office hours, and stakeholder meetings, and -805 +759 00:44:50,224 --> 00:44:52,804 things. -806 +760 00:44:53,885 --> 00:44:56,252 And ... yeah. It's something that really spoke to me. And -807 +761 00:44:56,252 --> 00:44:58,619 I'm- I'm -808 +762 00:44:58,619 --> 00:45:03,210 a very organized person by nature since I used to work -809 +763 00:45:03,210 --> 00:45:10,019 as an admin. So I- I told Sean, I was like, "Yeah. Let me- let -810 +764 00:45:10,019 --> 00:45:12,764 me help out however I can [giggles]." So, he's like, -811 -00:45:12,764 --> 00:45:15,509 +765 +00:45:12,764 --> 00:45:15,989 "Yeah, [crosstalk] let's do -this. - -812 -00:45:15,510 --> 00:45:15,989 -Come on." +this. Come on." -813 +766 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,900 Dan: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I'm sure. No, that's really -814 +767 00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:21,800 great. It- it seems -815 +768 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,249 like really interesting organization. That- that sort of -816 +769 00:45:25,249 --> 00:45:28,698 thing, I always wonder ... so you -817 +770 00:45:28,699 --> 00:45:36,050 make a product for another nonprofit, right? Does Ruby -818 +771 00:45:36,050 --> 00:45:39,019 for Good end up maintaining that -over time, or- or is it like a +over time, or- or is it, like, a -819 +772 00:45:39,019 --> 00:45:41,044 sort of a handoff kind of thing, or ... you know? This is just of -820 +773 00:45:41,044 --> 00:45:43,069 -me -- my curiosity. +me-- my curiosity. -821 +774 00:45:43,489 --> 00:45:44,719 I've always been curious about it [chuckles]. -822 +775 00:45:44,780 --> 00:45:52,244 Meg: Yeah. I think ... I think -it depends. I want -- +it depends. I want-- -823 +776 00:45:55,050 --> 00:45:55,739 -Dan: Yeah. I mean, I suppose -- +Dan: Yeah. I mean, I suppose-- oh, go ahead. -824 +777 00:45:56,925 --> 00:46:00,074 Meg: There's many where we maintain it, and there's some -825 +778 00:46:00,074 --> 00:46:03,223 that that's -826 +779 00:46:03,224 --> 00:46:06,254 just kind of a one and done -thing. Like some, it's ... I +thing. Like, some-- it's ... I -827 +780 00:46:06,254 --> 00:46:09,284 need -828 +781 00:46:09,465 --> 00:46:16,264 something that does A, B and C. And once it's done, they use it. -829 +782 00:46:17,434 --> 00:46:19,504 They're like, "Oh, can you change this and that?" "Okay." -830 +783 00:46:19,504 --> 00:46:21,574 And then -831 +784 00:46:21,574 --> 00:46:23,209 they're like, "Awesome. Thank you so much. Now we don't have -832 +785 00:46:23,209 --> 00:46:24,844 to go -833 +786 00:46:24,844 --> 00:46:27,454 and buy this stuff." And they can use their money on other -834 +787 00:46:27,454 --> 00:46:30,064 stuff that -835 +788 00:46:30,065 --> 00:46:33,845 -they need. And they don't need -like updates, and stuff like +they need. And they don't need, +like, updates and stuff like -836 +789 00:46:33,845 --> 00:46:37,625 that. -837 +790 00:46:37,625 --> 00:46:42,704 -Cuz it's not like -- these other +Cuz it's not like-- these other nonprofits are full of -838 +791 00:46:43,655 --> 00:46:46,894 volunteers. Like, they may have a few employees depending on the -839 +792 00:46:46,894 --> 00:46:50,449 nonprofit, but the goal is to just spread help to other -840 +793 00:46:50,449 --> 00:46:54,004 people, -841 +794 00:46:54,954 --> 00:46:58,894 and especially the organizations that don't have vast resources. -842 +795 00:46:59,405 --> 00:47:01,354 Dan: Oh, that's- that's cool. And- and so, they- they do a lot -843 +796 00:47:01,354 --> 00:47:03,303 of their -844 +797 00:47:03,574 --> 00:47:07,039 -projects, sort of open-source +projects, sort of open source too, right? -845 +798 00:47:07,164 --> 00:47:08,934 -Meg: Yeah. Yep. Like, everything --- +Meg: Yeah. Yep. Like, +everything-- -846 +799 00:47:09,699 --> 00:47:11,289 Dan: Is it all of them, or is -there -- are there some -- +there-- are there some-- -847 +800 00:47:11,380 --> 00:47:12,849 everything? Yeah. That's so cool. -848 +801 00:47:13,460 --> 00:47:15,860 Meg: Yeah. So you can just go on GitHub, and go in there, and -849 +802 00:47:15,860 --> 00:47:18,260 check it out. And -[unintelligible] -- +[unintelligible]-- -850 +803 00:47:18,730 --> 00:47:20,575 Dan: Yeah. Anybody who's listening to this can go or -851 +804 00:47:20,575 --> 00:47:22,420 contribute, right? I think -852 +805 00:47:22,420 --> 00:47:24,460 that's so cool. That's such a cool organization. -853 +806 00:47:24,869 --> 00:47:29,189 Meg: It- it makes stuff like -that, like -- well, I guess we +that, like-- well, I guess we -854 +807 00:47:29,189 --> 00:47:33,509 jazzed up about -855 +808 00:47:34,289 --> 00:47:38,857 -open-source. Just ... you know -how, when you -- if you toss a +open source. Just ... you know +how when you-- if you toss a -856 +809 00:47:38,857 --> 00:47:43,425 rock into -857 +810 00:47:43,425 --> 00:47:47,235 a calm, cold water in the -ripples go out? It's -- that's +ripples go out? It's-- that's -858 +811 00:47:47,235 --> 00:47:51,045 -how I view open-source. +how I view open source. -859 +812 00:47:51,045 --> 00:48:00,195 Like, you can make a change on some code in that, and -860 +813 00:48:00,195 --> 00:48:06,224 it spreads from there. Whoever forks that repository gets your -861 +814 00:48:06,224 --> 00:48:13,320 change. Whoever uses the software gets your change. And -862 +815 00:48:14,789 --> 00:48:22,920 it's spreads however far this piece of software goes. And you- -863 +816 00:48:23,130 --> 00:48:30,119 you just don't know when you start. Like, there's that badge -864 +817 00:48:30,869 --> 00:48:34,004 -on GitHub, the Mars Rover badge. +on GitHub—the Mars Rover badge. Like, so many people contributed -865 +818 00:48:34,004 --> 00:48:37,139 to code -866 +819 00:48:38,655 --> 00:48:43,860 that put a robot on Mars, and didn't know until they got that -867 +820 00:48:43,860 --> 00:48:49,065 badge. And -868 +821 00:48:49,065 --> 00:48:52,364 it's ... like, you can say that like, "Oh yeah, you know, I -869 +822 00:48:52,364 --> 00:48:55,663 wrote some -870 +823 00:48:55,664 --> 00:48:56,369 code for the Mars Rover," like, "No big [exhales]." [Bekah and -871 +824 00:48:56,369 --> 00:48:57,074 -Dan chuckle] So -- +Dan chuckle] So-- -872 +825 00:49:04,369 --> 00:49:06,366 Bekah: Yeah. I love that. I- I was just talking to someone ... -873 +826 00:49:06,366 --> 00:49:08,363 last week, -874 +827 00:49:08,423 --> 00:49:10,973 -about HacktoberFest, and that +about Hacktoberfest, and that happens in October [Meg -875 +828 00:49:10,973 --> 00:49:13,523 -giggles]. But I'm like already +giggles]. But I'm, like, already -876 +829 00:49:13,554 --> 00:49:16,643 getting super excited for that. -Cuz it's -- I dunno. It's like, +Cuz it's-- I dunno. It's, like-- -877 +830 00:49:16,853 --> 00:49:19,793 it's great to do as part of Virtual Coffee and see people -878 +831 00:49:19,793 --> 00:49:23,784 -contributing. But, there's- +contributing. But there's-- there are so many good -879 +832 00:49:24,054 --> 00:49:28,043 projects out there that people can contribute to, and figuring -880 +833 00:49:28,043 --> 00:49:29,468 -out ... I don't know. The best +out ... I don't know-- the best way to put people in touch with -881 +834 00:49:29,468 --> 00:49:30,893 them -882 +835 00:49:30,893 --> 00:49:32,663 cuz it can be overwhelming -getting into open-source, but +getting into open source. But, -883 +836 00:49:32,663 --> 00:49:34,433 -like making +like, making -884 +837 00:49:34,434 --> 00:49:39,579 that easily accessible is- is a- a goal for this year, for sure. -885 +838 00:49:40,568 --> 00:49:42,598 Meg: Yeah. Same. I'm trying to do that with the Ruby for Good -886 +839 00:49:42,598 --> 00:49:44,628 website, -887 +840 00:49:45,228 --> 00:49:54,559 -trying to clean it. It's a -- I +trying to clean it. It's a-- I have a 3000 line style sheet to -888 +841 00:49:54,588 --> 00:49:59,423 clean up be-before HacktoberFest kicks off. Also, my -889 +842 00:49:59,423 --> 00:50:04,258 -HacktoberFest +Hacktoberfest -890 +843 00:50:04,278 --> 00:50:09,259 challenge from last year to Virtual Coffee went woefully -891 +844 00:50:09,259 --> 00:50:10,248 unanswered. -892 +845 00:50:10,686 --> 00:50:11,646 Bekah: What was your challenge? -893 +846 00:50:11,646 --> 00:50:11,646 Dan: Uh-oh. -894 +847 00:50:12,856 --> 00:50:14,085 Meg: Dan remembers, right? -895 +848 00:50:15,751 --> 00:50:16,590 -Dan: I'd [chuckles] -- oh, I'm +Dan: I'd [chuckles]-- oh, I'm blanking now. -896 +849 00:50:17,615 --> 00:50:20,915 -Meg: It -- I said for- for every -first time contributor to make a +Meg: It-- I said, "For- for +every first time contributor to -897 +850 00:50:20,915 --> 00:50:24,215 -pull +make a pull -898 +851 00:50:24,215 --> 00:50:28,150 request in October, I would take -a shot. [Dan laughs] And I only - -899 -00:50:28,150 --> 00:50:32,085 -took three +a shot." [Dan laughs] And I only -900 -00:50:32,085 --> 00:50:34,115 -shots. The whole month. +852 +00:50:28,150 --> 00:50:34,115 +took three shots. The whole +month. -901 +853 00:50:34,351 --> 00:50:35,331 -Dan: Well, we -- +Dan: Well, we-- -902 +854 00:50:35,940 --> 00:50:38,130 -Bekah: Oh, I think maybe we -- -you needed to take 70, okay. So- +Bekah: Oh, I think maybe we-- +you needed to take 70, okay? So- -903 +855 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:38,721 Dan: Yeah [laughs]. -904 +856 00:50:39,630 --> 00:50:40,650 Bekah: -pace yourself [chuckles]. -905 +857 00:50:41,541 --> 00:50:43,521 Dan: Well ... yeah. That- that -happened because it -- I -- we +happened because it-- I-- we -906 +858 00:50:43,521 --> 00:50:45,501 were so burnt -907 +859 00:50:45,501 --> 00:50:47,075 -out from HacktoberFest that it -took me like a month and a half +out from Hacktoberfest that it +took me, like, a month and a -908 +860 00:50:47,075 --> 00:50:48,649 -to +half to -909 +861 00:50:48,650 --> 00:50:50,165 actually pull together any stats. And by that time, I had- -910 -00:50:50,165 --> 00:50:51,680 -I had - -911 -00:50:51,681 --> 00:50:52,490 -totally forgotten. +862 +00:50:50,165 --> 00:50:52,490 +I had totally forgotten. -912 +863 00:50:53,641 --> 00:50:53,911 Bekah: Yeah. We should- -913 +864 00:50:54,005 --> 00:50:54,545 Dan: Well, we're just gonna have to redo it. We'll have- we'll -914 +865 00:50:54,545 --> 00:50:55,085 have- -915 +866 00:50:55,141 --> 00:50:55,621 Bekah: -we can fill that in, this year. -916 +867 00:50:55,806 --> 00:50:57,925 Dan: -to redo this year. Yeah. We'll- we'll do it, Meg. -917 +868 00:50:58,476 --> 00:50:59,976 A Meg shot counter, you know? We'll- we'll build it so that we -918 +869 00:50:59,976 --> 00:51:01,476 won't- we -919 +870 00:51:01,476 --> 00:51:05,270 won't forget [Dan and Meg chuckle]. I mean, we- we- we -920 +871 00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:09,064 -have -- well, I'll have to think +have-- well, I'll have to think of some, you -921 +872 00:51:09,065 --> 00:51:10,835 know, stretch goals and stuff [chuckles]. Because we also -922 +873 00:51:10,835 --> 00:51:12,605 don't want, you -923 +874 00:51:12,606 --> 00:51:16,273 know ... well, we don't want you to die [crosstalk] [laughs], -924 +875 00:51:16,273 --> 00:51:19,940 like from- from too many shots. -So -- +So-- -925 +876 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:18,000 Bekah: Yeah, true. Like [chuckles], we give you life. -926 +877 00:51:19,940 --> 00:51:20,150 Meg: I'll be fine. -927 +878 00:51:20,150 --> 00:51:20,175 Dan: [Chuckles] I'll be fine. -928 +879 00:51:20,175 --> 00:51:30,166 Meg: I just- I just might forget -some things like, how to walk, +some things, like how to walk -929 +880 00:51:30,166 --> 00:51:30,496 or [Bekah and Dan chuckle] ... you know? -930 +881 00:51:31,340 --> 00:51:32,615 Dan: We'll make sure you're nice and comfy on your couch first -931 +882 00:51:32,615 --> 00:51:33,890 [chuckles]. -932 +883 00:51:35,391 --> 00:51:39,000 Meg: Yeah. Exactly. -933 +884 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,000 -Bekah: Well, Meg -- +Bekah: Well, Meg-- -934 +885 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:50,844 Meg: I had- I had a silly origin story for Kirk, if you had time. -935 +886 00:51:51,324 --> 00:51:51,925 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. -936 +887 00:51:51,925 --> 00:51:52,664 Bekah: Of course. -937 +888 00:51:52,664 --> 00:51:57,479 Meg: We talked about forgetting something. So, in May, there's -938 +889 00:51:57,479 --> 00:52:02,294 this -939 +890 00:52:02,295 --> 00:52:12,014 thing called Philly Tech Week. And this year, it's going -940 +891 00:52:12,014 --> 00:52:19,065 May 6th through May 14th, and it's hold on by Technical.ly -941 +892 00:52:19,065 --> 00:52:28,724 Philly. A lot of the events are gonna be virtual, I believe. -942 +893 00:52:29,204 --> 00:52:31,154 I- I think some may be in-person, but I think a lot -943 +894 00:52:31,154 --> 00:52:33,104 will still be -944 +895 00:52:33,105 --> 00:52:38,144 -virtual, but this is a annual +virtual. But this is a annual thing. I think it's the 12th -945 +896 00:52:38,144 --> 00:52:47,639 year this year. I'm not positive. But in 2019, I -946 +897 00:52:47,909 --> 00:52:55,199 applied for a scholarship to go to one of their keynote events -947 +898 00:52:56,699 --> 00:52:59,879 and- and got the scholarship. -And there was just like all day, +And there was just, like, all -948 +899 00:52:59,879 --> 00:53:03,059 -all +day, all -949 +900 00:53:03,059 --> 00:53:05,279 these presentations, and it was -at -- I'm pretty sure it was at +at-- I'm pretty sure it was at -950 -00:53:05,279 --> 00:53:07,499 -the - -951 -00:53:07,500 --> 00:53:12,900 -Comcast Center cuz it's like one -of the big tech hubs in +901 +00:53:05,279 --> 00:53:12,900 +the Comcast Center cuz it's, +like, one of the big tech hubs -952 +902 00:53:12,900 --> 00:53:17,565 -Philly. A lot of people are +in Philly. A lot of people are reluctant about that being -953 +903 00:53:17,565 --> 00:53:22,230 [chuckles] a big -954 +904 00:53:22,260 --> 00:53:24,915 tech spot in Philly. Gritty was there. Gritty showed up -955 +905 00:53:24,915 --> 00:53:27,570 -in-person [Bekah and Dan +in person [Bekah and Dan chuckles]. -956 +906 00:53:28,199 --> 00:53:35,280 -Yeah. And, yeah. It was really -cool. Got to like network and +Yeah. And-- yeah. It was really +cool. Got to, like, network and -957 -00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:41,574 +907 +00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,427 meet a whole bunch of people. -And then there was a after party +And then, there was a after -958 +908 +00:53:38,427 --> 00:53:41,574 +party + +909 00:53:41,574 --> 00:53:46,319 thing to go out to a bar. And ... I networked with people at -959 +910 00:53:46,319 --> 00:53:51,064 these -960 +911 00:53:51,065 --> 00:53:54,720 tables, and ... I was talking with this one group, and the -961 +912 00:53:54,720 --> 00:53:58,375 people -962 +913 00:53:58,375 --> 00:54:00,174 just seem super nice. I think I put down my backpack on the -963 +914 00:54:00,174 --> 00:54:01,973 table, and -964 +915 00:54:02,514 --> 00:54:05,647 they came to set up, and I was ... I don't- I don't know. -965 +916 00:54:05,647 --> 00:54:08,780 Moving things around -966 +917 00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,610 my backpack or something, and saying, "Oh, sorry. I'll get out -967 +918 00:54:11,610 --> 00:54:12,840 of here." And they're like, "Oh, no, it's fine," and we just -968 +919 00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:14,070 started -969 +920 00:54:14,070 --> 00:54:19,920 chatting. And I found them later at the happy hour. And it turned -970 +921 00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:27,300 out that, one of their C level employees was visiting from the -971 +922 00:54:27,300 --> 00:54:30,209 West Coast. And he was buying us all drinks for happy hour. He's -972 +923 00:54:30,209 --> 00:54:33,118 like, -973 +924 00:54:33,150 --> 00:54:34,934 "Hey, do you wanna drink?" cu-cuz I was just hanging out, -974 +925 00:54:34,934 --> 00:54:36,718 talking -975 +926 00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:39,539 -with them. And, so I got like +with them. And so, I got, like, really roped up on this -976 +927 00:54:39,539 --> 00:54:42,359 company's -977 +928 00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:45,314 dime [Dan chuckles], and went to the after parties after party, -978 +929 00:54:45,314 --> 00:54:48,268 and they had -979 +930 00:54:48,269 --> 00:54:52,911 -this awesome DJ. And that was -like the technically Philly +this awesome DJ. And that was, +like, the technically Philly -980 +931 00:54:52,911 --> 00:54:57,553 people. We're like, "Now we can -981 +932 00:54:57,554 --> 00:54:59,909 let loose cuz the day's done." And they're all dancing, and -982 +933 00:54:59,909 --> 00:55:02,264 having -983 +934 00:55:02,264 --> 00:55:08,235 fun and stuff. And then I looked -at my clock, and it was like +at my clock, and it was, like, -984 +935 00:55:08,235 --> 00:55:10,439 -1.30 or something. And the last -train had come and left +one thirty or something. And the +last train had come and left -985 +936 00:55:10,439 --> 00:55:12,643 [chuckles]. -986 +937 00:55:14,264 --> 00:55:15,195 Bekah: Oh, no. -987 +938 00:55:16,005 --> 00:55:18,195 Meg: I was just like, "Oh, no. What did I do [laughs]?" -988 +939 00:55:21,795 --> 00:55:29,235 And it was really warm, so I just walked around Philly. And -989 -00:55:29,235 --> 00:55:32,174 -so -- and I was like trying to +940 +00:55:29,235 --> 00:55:35,113 +so-- and I was, like, trying to make it until the morning when -990 -00:55:32,174 --> 00:55:35,113 -the - -991 +941 00:55:35,114 --> 00:55:38,000 -train station open cuz I didn't -have- +the train station open cuz I +didn't have- -992 +942 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,000 Dan: [Chuckles] Oh, no. -993 +943 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:44,527 Meg: -enough money to take an Uber [laughs]. And there's this -994 +944 00:55:44,527 --> 00:55:50,054 -guy that -- some guy in a +guy that-- some guy in a wheelchair -995 +945 00:55:50,054 --> 00:55:54,584 scooter was coming down the street, yelling at me, [laughs] -996 +946 00:55:54,584 --> 00:55:59,114 he's following me. -997 +947 00:55:59,144 --> 00:56:02,979 And I'm just like, "Ah ... [exhales] okay. I guess I'm -998 +948 00:56:02,979 --> 00:56:06,814 -gonna have to like look up the -credit card, and take +gonna have to, like, look up the +credit card and take -999 +949 00:56:06,815 --> 00:56:13,684 the Uber [laughs]." But it was a great night. -1000 +950 00:56:18,809 --> 00:56:21,209 Bekah: [Bekah and Dan laugh] Oh, that is awesome. Well, Meg, it's -1001 +951 00:56:21,209 --> 00:56:23,609 been really great -1002 +952 00:56:23,639 --> 00:56:28,380 having you on the podcast, finally. Before we go, are -1003 +953 00:56:28,380 --> 00:56:30,749 there any last fun Philly facts that you would like to share -1004 +954 00:56:30,749 --> 00:56:33,118 with -1005 +955 00:56:33,449 --> 00:56:34,469 our listeners? -1006 +956 00:56:35,293 --> 00:56:39,189 Meg: I would like to say, we have amazing food. If you're -1007 +957 00:56:39,189 --> 00:56:43,085 ever in town, -1008 +958 00:56:44,226 --> 00:56:49,717 I encourage you go to the Reading Terminal Market, -1009 +959 00:56:50,246 --> 00:56:54,366 basically ... like, weekdays are best. Because the Mennonite -1010 +960 00:56:54,366 --> 00:56:58,486 people -1011 +961 00:56:58,487 --> 00:57:03,916 -are there with like that good +are there with, like, that good home cook Pennsylvania Dutch -1012 +962 00:57:03,947 --> 00:57:10,396 food. And although we mentioned Gritty definitely more -1013 +963 00:57:10,396 --> 00:57:12,556 than eight times at this podcast, there's also the Philly -1014 +964 00:57:12,556 --> 00:57:14,716 -Phanatic, who is +Phanatic who is -1015 -00:57:14,717 --> 00:57:18,167 +965 +00:57:14,717 --> 00:57:22,907 an amazing mascot. And I- I can't leave him out either. -1016 -00:57:18,167 --> 00:57:21,617 -Yeah. - -1017 +966 00:57:22,907 --> 00:57:26,367 -Those are my fun Philly facts -for all of you. +Yeah. Those are my fun Philly +facts for all of you. -1018 +967 00:57:27,362 --> 00:57:28,623 Bekah: All right. Thanks, Meg. -1019 +968 00:57:29,163 --> 00:57:30,000 Dan: [Chuckles] Awesome. Thanks, Meg. -1020 +969 00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,000 Meg: Thank you. -1021 +970 00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:34,643 Dan: Thank you for coming out. Thank you for listening to this -1022 +971 00:57:34,643 --> 00:57:38,286 episode of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. This -1023 +972 00:57:38,286 --> 00:57:41,586 episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel. If you -1024 +973 00:57:41,586 --> 00:57:43,836 have questions or comments, you can hit us up on Twitter at -1025 +974 00:57:43,836 --> 00:57:46,041 VirtualCoffeeIO, or email us at podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You -1026 +975 00:57:46,041 --> 00:57:48,246 can -1027 +976 00:57:48,246 --> 00:57:50,617 find the show notes, sign up for the newsletter, check out any of -1028 +977 00:57:50,617 --> 00:57:53,856 our other resources on our website, virtualcoffee.io. If -1029 +978 00:57:53,856 --> 00:57:56,137 you're interested in sponsoring Virtual Coffee, you can find out -1030 +979 00:57:56,137 --> 00:57:59,916 more information on our website at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. -1031 +980 00:58:00,336 --> 00:58:02,091 Please subscribe to our podcast, and be sure to leave us a -1032 +981 00:58:02,091 --> 00:58:03,846 review. -1033 +982 00:58:04,237 --> 00:58:06,097 Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week. \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/episodes/5_8.srt b/episodes/5_8.srt index ffaa298..08038d8 100644 --- a/episodes/5_8.srt +++ b/episodes/5_8.srt @@ -9,7 +9,7 @@ of 3 00:00:09,535 --> 00:00:12,173 -the Virtual Coffee podcast. I'm +the Virtual Coffee Podcast. I'm Bekah. And this is a podcast 4 @@ -32,12 +32,12 @@ their 8 00:00:21,562 --> 00:00:24,231 -coding journey. And they're here -on this podcast, sharing their +coding journey. And they're +here, on this podcast, sharing 9 00:00:24,231 --> 00:00:25,446 -stories and what they've +their stories and what they've learned. And we're here to share 10 @@ -78,7 +78,7 @@ a math 18 00:00:44,826 --> 00:00:48,216 -professor. He- he had a real -- +professor. He- he had a real-- he has had a very interesting 19 @@ -88,8 +88,8 @@ career. So it was very cool to 20 00:00:51,667 --> 00:00:54,411 -hear his -- can I just say very -a couple more times [laughs]? +hear his-- can I just say very a +couple more times [laughs]? 21 00:00:54,411 --> 00:00:57,155 @@ -106,7 +106,7 @@ down 24 00:00:59,887 --> 00:01:03,962 -with Matt. I don't know. He's +with Matt-- I don't know. He's had a cool career- 25 @@ -116,20 +116,20 @@ Bekah: Yeah. 26 00:01:03,962 --> 00:01:06,136 Dan: -and so many at different -things he's like gotten- gotten +things he's, like, gotten- 27 00:01:06,136 --> 00:01:08,310 -into. And he's +gotten into. And he's 28 00:01:08,311 --> 00:01:10,186 -built a lot of different things -and, yeah. It was fun- it was a +built a lot of different things, +and-- yeah. It was fun-- it was 29 00:01:10,186 --> 00:01:12,061 -fun +a fun 30 00:01:12,061 --> 00:01:12,602 @@ -170,1274 +170,1275 @@ he developed his career and followed his interest is really 38 -00:01:35,426 --> 00:01:37,000 -... - -39 -00:01:37,932 --> 00:01:39,792 -I don't know, inspiring, I +00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,792 +... I don't know-- inspiring, I guess. -40 +39 00:01:40,031 --> 00:01:41,921 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And it- it hit home for me a lot. It's- -41 +40 00:01:41,921 --> 00:01:43,811 it's -42 +41 00:01:43,811 --> 00:01:45,641 one of those things that I- I never did consciously, and I -43 +42 00:01:45,641 --> 00:01:48,912 don't think Matt did really -either. He- he was -- he would +either. He- he was-- he would -44 -00:01:48,912 --> 00:01:50,217 +43 +00:01:48,912 --> 00:01:51,522 build things that would help him, you know, help himself. So -45 -00:01:50,217 --> 00:01:51,522 -he - -46 +44 00:01:51,522 --> 00:01:54,611 -talked about what he built, -something that was like helping +he talked about what he built, +something that was, like, -47 +45 00:01:54,611 --> 00:01:55,000 -to buy tickets or sell tickets. -And- +helping to buy tickets or sell +tickets. And- -48 +46 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:55,000 Bekah: Yeah. -49 +47 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,966 -Dan: -it wasn't like a scheme to -make money or a scheme to get a +Dan: -it wasn't, like, a scheme +to make money or a scheme to get -50 +48 00:01:59,966 --> 00:02:02,932 -job [chuckles], you know? It was -just a +a job [chuckles], you know? It +was just a -51 -00:02:02,932 --> 00:02:04,701 -thing that helped him -- his- -his own, like, life, you know? - -52 -00:02:04,701 --> 00:02:06,470 -He +49 +00:02:02,932 --> 00:02:06,470 +thing that helped him-- his- his +own, like, life, you know? -53 +50 00:02:06,471 --> 00:02:08,571 -wasn't trying to sell the +He wasn't trying to sell the product or do any of the things -54 +51 00:02:08,571 --> 00:02:10,671 that -55 +52 00:02:10,671 --> 00:02:14,301 you hear about these days a lot. -He just was like interested +He just was, like, interested -56 +53 00:02:14,301 --> 00:02:17,752 -in built something. And then +in built something. And then, some people heard about it. And, -57 +54 00:02:18,981 --> 00:02:21,000 well, you'll hear about the rest [laughs]. But it was cool. -58 +55 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:21,000 Bekah: [Chuckles] Yeah. -59 +56 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,396 -Dan: It hit home for me. I- I -- -that's -- building projects is +Dan: It hit home for me. I- I-- +that's-- building projects is -60 +57 00:02:23,396 --> 00:02:25,792 -just like -- that's- that's -- -my -- that's always +just, like-- that's- that's-- +my-- that's always my -61 +58 00:02:25,792 --> 00:02:29,062 -my advice to people too, is- is- +advice to people, too, is- is- is just build things that you're -62 +59 00:02:29,122 --> 00:02:32,451 -either interested in, or could +either interested in or could help yourself. And the rest -63 +60 00:02:32,451 --> 00:02:34,206 will come sort of naturally. So, -it was- it was cool. It was -- +it was- it was cool. It was-- -64 +61 00:02:34,206 --> 00:02:35,961 -we -- +we-- -65 +62 00:02:36,711 --> 00:02:37,671 I had a good time talking to him. -66 +63 00:02:37,671 --> 00:02:41,752 Bekah: Yeah. It was fascinating episode. And we hope that you -67 +64 00:02:41,752 --> 00:02:43,222 -enjoy it and we're going to +enjoy it. And we're going to start it the same way that we -68 +65 00:02:43,222 --> 00:02:44,692 start -69 +66 00:02:44,722 --> 00:02:48,622 every Virtual Coffee, with our names, where we're from, what we -70 +67 00:02:48,622 --> 00:03:00,127 do, and our random check-in question. So, enjoy. Today's -71 +68 00:03:00,152 --> 00:03:03,842 random check-in question is, if you could appear on any game -72 +69 00:03:03,842 --> 00:03:06,347 show, what would it be? I'm Bekah. I am a technical -73 +70 00:03:06,347 --> 00:03:08,852 community -74 +71 00:03:08,853 --> 00:03:13,157 builder from a small town in Ohio. And game show ... I don't -75 +72 00:03:13,157 --> 00:03:17,461 know. If there -76 +73 00:03:17,462 --> 00:03:19,442 was a "Sudoku" game show, I would like to try that -77 +74 00:03:19,442 --> 00:03:21,422 [chuckles]. I don't think -78 +75 00:03:21,423 --> 00:03:24,000 -that's a thing. So I guess I'll -go on "Wheel of Fortune"- +that's a thing. So, I guess, +I'll go on "Wheel of Fortune"- -79 +76 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,000 -Dan: Peep- pretty -- +Dan: Peep- pretty-- -80 -00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,819 -Bekah: -or, I don't know. "Price -Is Right". I feel like I'm -- as +77 +00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:26,909 +Bekah: -or-- I don't know. +"Price Is Right". I feel like -81 +78 +00:03:26,909 --> 00:03:27,818 +I'm-- as + +79 00:03:27,819 --> 00:03:29,638 an adult, I've -82 +80 00:03:29,638 --> 00:03:32,578 gotten better at that. Like [chuckles], "Oh, I know the -83 +81 00:03:32,578 --> 00:03:35,518 price of that." But ... -84 +82 00:03:36,087 --> 00:03:38,038 I don't know. I think I'll stick with "Wheel of Fortune". -85 +83 00:03:38,867 --> 00:03:40,597 Dan: "Wheel of Fortune". Well, it seemed like a fun- a fun -86 +84 00:03:40,597 --> 00:03:42,327 time, you know? -87 +85 00:03:42,358 --> 00:03:43,348 Bekah: It doesn't seem so stressful. -88 +86 00:03:43,377 --> 00:03:45,882 Dan: I- I feel like- I feel like a "Sudoku" game show would be -89 +87 00:03:45,882 --> 00:03:48,387 pretty boring to watch -[chuckles]. But before +[chuckles], but before -90 +88 00:03:48,388 --> 00:03:49,603 they compete it- before they compete it. But because, well, I -91 +89 00:03:49,603 --> 00:03:50,818 -can tell -- +can tell-- -92 -00:03:50,867 --> 00:03:53,298 -Bekah: I mean, like some kind of -obstacles they threw in, right? +90 +00:03:50,867 --> 00:03:52,082 +Bekah: I mean, like, some kind +of obstacles they threw in, -93 +91 +00:03:52,082 --> 00:03:53,297 +right? + +92 00:03:53,298 --> 00:03:53,298 Dan: Ooh. -94 +93 00:03:53,328 --> 00:03:55,998 Bekah: Like, what you fill in one row, then something -95 +94 00:03:55,998 --> 00:03:58,668 happened, and you get -96 +95 00:03:58,668 --> 00:04:00,000 slimed. Like [Bekah and Matt -laugh] -- +laugh]-- -97 +96 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,000 Dan: Slimed [chuckles]. -98 +97 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,763 Bekah: Did you ever watch "Double Dare" [chuckles]? -99 +98 00:04:03,763 --> 00:04:08,652 Dan: Oh, man. Okay. So, hi. I'm Dan. I do front-end -100 +99 00:04:08,652 --> 00:04:13,252 -development, mostly, and live in +development—mostly—and live in Cleveland, and ... oh, yeah, -101 +100 00:04:13,252 --> 00:04:15,723 -yeah. Game show, "American +yeah. Game show "American Gladiators" is the first thing -102 +101 00:04:15,723 --> 00:04:17,382 that popped into my head. -103 +102 00:04:17,447 --> 00:04:18,617 -Bekah: Ooh. I did [crosstalk] -- +Bekah: Ooh. I did [crosstalk]-- that's what I'm doing [laughs]. -104 +103 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:18,000 Matt McInnis: Oh, how are you doing, sir? -105 +104 00:04:20,072 --> 00:04:21,347 Dan: [Laughs] I- I always wanted -to do -- especially the one -- +to do-- especially the one-- -106 +105 00:04:21,347 --> 00:04:22,622 -the, like, +the-- like, -107 +106 00:04:22,713 --> 00:04:25,083 thing I feel like they ended with it. But the- the watery -108 +107 00:04:25,083 --> 00:04:26,808 -run around, shooting the, like, +run around, shooting the-- like, the Nerf guns at the, you know, -109 +108 00:04:26,808 --> 00:04:28,533 and -110 +109 00:04:28,533 --> 00:04:29,897 -the -- like the- the gladiator +the-- like, the- the gladiator person is up on the top shooting -111 +110 00:04:29,897 --> 00:04:31,261 Nerf gun -112 +111 00:04:31,262 --> 00:04:32,402 stuff at your tennis [??] balls. I- I don't really know. I -113 +112 00:04:32,402 --> 00:04:33,542 haven't -114 +113 00:04:33,543 --> 00:04:34,862 watched it, obviously, in a long -time, but [laughs] -- +time, but [laughs]-- -115 +114 00:04:35,538 --> 00:04:37,038 Bekah: "American Ninja Warrior", too. I forgot. Ugh. -116 +115 00:04:37,622 --> 00:04:39,002 Dan: "American Ninja Warrior" is -cool. It -- that seems a lot +cool. It-- that seems a lot -117 +116 00:04:39,002 --> 00:04:40,382 harder though. But it -118 +117 00:04:40,382 --> 00:04:43,293 would be cool to try. I would definitely try that for sure. -119 +118 00:04:43,353 --> 00:04:44,327 Matt: But would you be a contestant or one of the -120 +119 00:04:44,327 --> 00:04:45,301 gladiators, if you're in the show? -121 +120 00:04:45,603 --> 00:04:47,252 Dan: Well, I mean, now I'd have to start- I'd have to start as a -122 +121 00:04:47,252 --> 00:04:47,253 contestant, you know? -123 +122 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,000 Matt: Yeah. [Unintelligible]. -124 +123 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,386 -Dan: I- I can't -- I'm not gonna -just like swoop in and, you +Dan: I- I can't-- I'm not gonna +just, like, swoop in and-- you -125 +124 00:04:50,386 --> 00:04:52,772 know? I gotta- I gotta earn my- earn my way up, -126 +125 00:04:52,833 --> 00:04:56,192 right? [Dan and Matt laugh] But -yeah, I feel- I feel like -- +yeah, I feel- I feel like-- -127 +126 00:04:56,192 --> 00:04:59,551 -plus it get the -- well, did +plus it get the-- well, did -128 +127 00:04:59,552 --> 00:05:01,367 the contestants have the ... what do you call them? Like a -129 +128 00:05:01,367 --> 00:05:03,182 ... not a -130 +129 00:05:03,182 --> 00:05:05,522 jumpsuit, but the ... we called -these things, that they were ... +these things that-- they were-- -131 +130 00:05:05,522 --> 00:05:07,862 -or like, that wrestlers or +or, like, that wrestlers or anything? -132 +131 00:05:07,862 --> 00:05:08,000 Matt: Yeah, I think it's a suit. I think it's a jumpsuit. -133 +132 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:09,000 Dan: No, no, no. -134 +133 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:10,366 Matt: No, there's a name for it, isn't that [laughs]? What's the -135 +134 00:05:10,366 --> 00:05:10,732 -thing? We make it -- +thing? We make it-- -136 +135 00:05:12,242 --> 00:05:13,472 Dan: We need Nick here [chuckles]. What's the thing -137 +136 00:05:13,472 --> 00:05:14,702 that like -138 +137 00:05:14,702 --> 00:05:16,000 -wrestlers wear, like- like -- +wrestlers wear, like- like-- -139 +138 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,000 Bekah: A singlet? -140 +139 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,262 -Dan: Nah -- yes, singlet maybe? -I don't know. +Dan: Nah-- yes, singlet maybe? I +don't know. -141 +140 00:05:19,418 --> 00:05:21,087 Matt: I think there's another word for it, but it's- it's not -142 +141 00:05:21,087 --> 00:05:22,756 leotards, is it? No. -143 +142 00:05:23,793 --> 00:05:26,072 Dan: No. I mean, it's basically leotard, but it's like singlet. -144 +143 00:05:26,293 --> 00:05:26,938 Bekah: It was a singlet. Singlet is what you're wearing at -145 +144 00:05:26,938 --> 00:05:27,583 wrestling. -146 +145 00:05:28,052 --> 00:05:29,027 Dan: I don't know [chuckles]. I don't know. That doesn't sound -147 +146 00:05:29,027 --> 00:05:30,002 right, but you're -148 +147 00:05:30,002 --> 00:05:31,597 probably right [Bekah and Matt laugh]. We- we'll ask Nick -149 +148 00:05:31,597 --> 00:05:33,192 after- after the- after the podcast [laugh]. -150 +149 00:05:37,487 --> 00:05:39,588 -Matt: Yeah. I -- good to be -here, guys. Thank you for having +Matt: Yeah. I-- good to be here, +guys. Thank you for having -151 +150 00:05:39,588 --> 00:05:42,048 me. I'm Matt. I'm a developer from Toronto, Canada. I run a -152 +151 00:05:42,048 --> 00:05:43,562 small company called Typist where we make educational -153 +152 00:05:43,562 --> 00:05:45,076 software. And -154 -00:05:45,557 --> 00:05:47,027 +153 +00:05:45,557 --> 00:05:48,497 if I was on one game show, my -first — like, you know, - -155 -00:05:47,027 --> 00:05:48,497 -"American +first, like—you know, "American -156 +154 00:05:48,497 --> 00:05:51,197 -Gladiator" wins — but my first +Gladiator" wins—but my first reaction was "Kids Street". It's -157 +155 00:05:51,197 --> 00:05:52,862 this old game show. I don't know -if I -- like, if I was 12 years +if I-- like, if I was 12 years -158 +156 00:05:52,862 --> 00:05:54,527 -old +old again, -159 +157 00:05:54,528 --> 00:05:56,898 -again, I think it, you know, and +I think it-- you know-- and everyone kind of clapped over -160 +158 00:05:56,898 --> 00:05:58,322 -their head, like there is this, +their head, like, there is this, like, thing that they did if -161 +159 00:05:58,322 --> 00:05:59,746 they -162 +160 00:05:59,747 --> 00:06:01,547 got a question, right? And if -you won, it was like every kid's +you won, it was, like, every -163 +161 00:06:01,547 --> 00:06:03,347 -dream, you got to +kid's dream. You got to -164 +162 00:06:03,348 --> 00:06:05,357 -go into like this middle +go into, like, this middle platform. There was like stock, -165 +163 00:06:05,357 --> 00:06:07,366 like a toy -166 +164 00:06:07,367 --> 00:06:10,788 -store? And you had like two +store? And you had, like, two minutes to just grab- -167 +165 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:10,788 Dan: Oh, man. -168 +166 00:06:10,788 --> 00:06:11,000 Matt: -whatever you wanted. -169 +167 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:11,000 Bekah: Ooh. -170 +168 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,447 -Matt: It was like -- yeah. So my +Matt: It was, like-- yeah. So my sisters and I, we would watch -171 +169 00:06:14,478 --> 00:06:15,753 "Kids Street" and we be like, "How do we get on this TV show?" -172 +170 00:06:15,753 --> 00:06:17,028 And we -173 +171 00:06:17,028 --> 00:06:20,418 never quite cracked the egg on that one. It was very- very -174 +172 00:06:20,418 --> 00:06:22,577 disappointing childhood, I guess, you could say [laughs]. -175 +173 00:06:22,577 --> 00:06:24,736 Yeah. I'm kidding. But -176 +174 00:06:24,737 --> 00:06:26,872 -it's a, yeah, kid's dream. But, -you know, I, you know, also +it's a-- yeah, kid's dream. But, +you know-- I, you know, also -177 +175 00:06:26,872 --> 00:06:29,007 -second Dan's answer, +second Dan's answer -178 +176 00:06:29,028 --> 00:06:29,427 cuz that sounds awesome. -179 +177 00:06:30,677 --> 00:06:33,348 Bekah: Wow. I have never seen "Kids Street" before. -180 +178 00:06:34,137 --> 00:06:35,442 -Matt: Like -- yeah, there's this +Matt: Like-- yeah, there's this funny kind of Canadian, you -181 +179 00:06:35,442 --> 00:06:36,747 know, from -182 +180 00:06:36,747 --> 00:06:40,468 Canada. This is funny Canadian subculture around some -183 +181 00:06:40,497 --> 00:06:43,798 things. Like, there are these really kind of weird things that -184 +182 00:06:43,798 --> 00:06:46,648 pop up every now and then that are extremely popular. Like, -185 -00:06:46,648 --> 00:06:49,247 +183 +00:06:46,648 --> 00:06:47,947 "Household", everybody knows -them. Even like music and bands +them. Even, like, music and -186 +184 +00:06:47,947 --> 00:06:49,246 +bands + +185 00:06:49,247 --> 00:06:52,468 sometimes. They were fueled by this entertainment industry -187 +186 00:06:52,468 --> 00:06:53,487 -that, like, out of Toronto. But +that, like, out of Toronto. But, like, these companies called -188 +187 00:06:53,487 --> 00:06:54,506 MuchMusic, -189 +188 00:06:54,507 --> 00:06:57,358 and they're related subsidiaries, but are just -190 -00:06:57,358 --> 00:06:58,543 +189 +00:06:57,358 --> 00:06:59,728 totally unknown in the US. And -it -- which is funny because the - -191 -00:06:58,543 --> 00:06:59,728 -US +it-- which is funny because the -192 +190 00:06:59,728 --> 00:07:01,330 -is just a two-hour drive from +US is just a two-hour drive from where I'm living. Like, it -193 +191 00:07:01,330 --> 00:07:02,932 close, right? Like, -194 +192 00:07:02,932 --> 00:07:04,672 we're- we're right there. We- we go to Buffalo Bills games all -195 +193 00:07:04,672 --> 00:07:06,412 the time. -196 +194 00:07:06,413 --> 00:07:08,273 It's across this, you know, it feels like it's across the -197 +195 00:07:08,273 --> 00:07:09,503 street. But you go down there, and they're like, "Oh, they -198 +196 00:07:09,503 --> 00:07:10,733 tragically -199 +197 00:07:10,733 --> 00:07:12,353 -hip." And it like, every -- +hip." And it, like, every-- like, you know, half of Canada -200 +198 00:07:12,353 --> 00:07:13,973 -is all +is all-time -201 +199 00:07:13,973 --> 00:07:15,307 -time favorite band, and people -in the US are like, "Who?" like, +favorite band, and people in the +US are like, "Who?" Like, -202 +200 00:07:15,307 --> 00:07:16,641 "Who -203 +201 00:07:16,642 --> 00:07:18,247 -is that?" You know, it's -- +is that," you know? It's-- there's these things. So "Kids -204 +202 00:07:18,247 --> 00:07:19,852 Street" might -205 +203 00:07:19,853 --> 00:07:23,273 be one of them too. And, you -know, all these like kinda old +know, all these, like, kinda old -206 +204 00:07:23,273 --> 00:07:24,262 TV shows for kids, especially. -207 +205 00:07:25,742 --> 00:07:27,407 Bekah: Yeah, I need to check it -out. I- I, like, pulled up the +out. I- I, like, pulled up the-- -208 +206 00:07:27,407 --> 00:07:29,072 --- oh, it is a +oh, it is a -209 +207 00:07:29,072 --> 00:07:32,853 Canadian's children's game show. -So -- +So-- -210 +208 00:07:33,098 --> 00:07:34,927 -Matt: It is Canadian. I -- ah, +Matt: It is Canadian. I-- ah, you guys missed out. This was -211 +209 00:07:34,927 --> 00:07:36,756 -epic. Like [Bekah laughs] -- and +epic. Like [Bekah laughs]-- and it would -212 +210 00:07:36,757 --> 00:07:38,047 -have been -- it would have like --- it would've been way better +have been-- it would have, +like-- it would've been way -213 +211 00:07:38,047 --> 00:07:39,337 -if the US had done it [laughs]. +better if the US had done it +[laughs]. -214 +212 00:07:41,497 --> 00:07:43,462 Like, the mall would have been cooler. Like, it would have just -215 +213 00:07:43,462 --> 00:07:45,427 -been -- like- like, production +been-- like- like, production quality would -216 +214 00:07:45,427 --> 00:07:47,557 have been way up there. Like, where's Nickelodeon at when- -217 +215 00:07:48,362 --> 00:07:48,663 Bekah: Yeah. -218 +216 00:07:48,668 --> 00:07:49,327 Matt: -for "Kids Street" [laughs]. -219 +217 00:07:49,668 --> 00:07:52,067 Bekah: I love it. It looks very 80s. I need to check this -220 +218 00:07:52,067 --> 00:07:52,338 out [chuckles]. -221 +219 00:07:53,028 --> 00:07:54,048 Matt: Yeah, it was cool [chuckles]. -222 +220 00:07:55,067 --> 00:07:57,827 Bekah: Well, thanks so much for being here with us today, Matt. -223 +221 00:07:57,858 --> 00:08:02,208 We always like to get started with your origin stories. So, if -224 +222 00:08:02,208 --> 00:08:07,517 you could give us what the story is that brought you here to -225 +223 00:08:07,577 --> 00:08:08,838 today, where you are in tech. -226 +224 00:08:09,418 --> 00:08:13,228 Matt: Yeah, thanks. Thank you for having me, Dan and Bekah. -227 -00:08:13,377 --> 00:08:15,589 -Yeah. You know, I-I guess it-it --- like starting -- focusing on +225 +00:08:13,377 --> 00:08:14,483 +Yeah. You know, I-I guess +it-it-- like, starting-- -228 +226 +00:08:14,483 --> 00:08:15,589 +focusing on + +227 00:08:15,589 --> 00:08:17,801 the tech side of -229 +228 00:08:17,802 --> 00:08:21,973 -things, I, you know, graduated --- I did degrees in math. I love +things, I, you know, graduated-- +I did degrees in math. I love -230 +229 00:08:21,983 --> 00:08:24,647 math. I think it's still my -Twitter handle [chuckles]. I -- +Twitter handle [chuckles]. I-- -231 +230 00:08:24,647 --> 00:08:27,311 -and I -- and, you +and I-- and, you -232 +231 00:08:27,312 --> 00:08:29,502 -know, I went -- I decided that, +know, I went-- I decided that, like, the change I wanna make in -233 +232 00:08:29,502 --> 00:08:31,663 the world after graduating was I wanted to improve the way that -234 +233 00:08:31,663 --> 00:08:33,103 people learn mathematics at the post-secondary level. I- I just, -235 +234 00:08:33,103 --> 00:08:34,543 you -236 +235 00:08:34,543 --> 00:08:36,560 -know, my -- their programs that -I took were massacres. We had +know, my-- their programs that I +took were massacres. We had -237 +236 00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:38,577 such few people -238 +237 00:08:38,577 --> 00:08:42,148 finish relative to how many started. And, you know, I worked -239 +238 00:08:42,148 --> 00:08:44,398 all the way through university, and math help centers, and as a -240 +239 00:08:44,398 --> 00:08:48,298 TA, and I saw people in non-math disciplines kinda drop out of -241 +240 00:08:48,298 --> 00:08:50,368 -their like early childhood +their, like, early childhood education program because they -242 +241 00:08:50,368 --> 00:08:52,147 couldn't complete their stats course. And I thought that was -243 +242 00:08:52,147 --> 00:08:53,926 crazy. -244 +243 00:08:53,927 --> 00:08:56,538 Because if it's taught properly, I don't think math is hard, -245 +244 00:08:56,748 --> 00:08:58,938 you know? Put that strong caveat, if it's taught properly. -246 +245 00:08:58,938 --> 00:09:01,128 -And so I +And so, I -247 +246 00:09:01,128 --> 00:09:03,947 really wanted to kind of affect change there. I took a job. I -248 +247 00:09:03,947 --> 00:09:06,977 -applied everywhere for these -- +applied everywhere for these-- in Canada, we call them 'math -249 +248 00:09:06,977 --> 00:09:10,638 professorships' at community colleges in Canada. In US, -250 +249 00:09:10,638 --> 00:09:13,577 it's probably known as a 'math -instructor' at the community -- +instructor' at the community-- -251 +250 00:09:13,577 --> 00:09:16,682 in the community college system. -And, so, I took a job in +And so, I took a job in -252 +251 00:09:16,682 --> 00:09:18,302 Saskatchewan. I moved from the -small town of Aurora, Ontario — +small town of Aurora, -253 +252 00:09:18,302 --> 00:09:19,922 -where +Ontario—where -254 +253 00:09:19,923 --> 00:09:23,852 -I grew up — to Prince Albert, +I grew up—to Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, which is 40,000 -255 -00:09:23,852 --> 00:09:25,757 -person town, like in the, you +254 +00:09:23,852 --> 00:09:27,662 +person town, like, in the-- you know, it- it was really awesome. -256 -00:09:25,757 --> 00:09:27,662 -I - -257 +255 00:09:27,663 --> 00:09:29,350 -loved it out there, and I had +I loved it out there, and I had some family there too. And -258 +256 00:09:29,350 --> 00:09:31,037 that's -259 +257 00:09:31,038 --> 00:09:34,697 where, you know, I- I guess my -journey to tech started. I, +journey to tech started. I-- -260 +258 00:09:34,878 --> 00:09:36,947 you know, I was a math person. I really had no experience with -261 +259 00:09:36,947 --> 00:09:41,597 tech at that point. I was, you know, 24 ... 23, 24. And -262 +260 00:09:41,597 --> 00:09:44,147 I- I just started wanting to make things. I remember the -263 +261 00:09:44,147 --> 00:09:46,697 first -264 +262 00:09:46,697 --> 00:09:48,437 thing I wanted to make was I had read, you know, a book that's -265 +263 00:09:48,437 --> 00:09:50,177 now very -266 +264 00:09:50,177 --> 00:09:51,947 -popular Malcolm Gladwell's +popular, Malcolm Gladwell's "[The] Tipping Point". And he -267 +265 00:09:51,947 --> 00:09:53,717 -described +described, -268 +266 00:09:53,717 --> 00:09:56,087 -like "Sesame Street" in the 80s. -And how they would, like, +like, "Sesame Street" in the +80s, and how they would, like, -269 +267 00:09:56,663 --> 00:09:57,968 engineer this TV show. They would bring kids in, and they -270 +268 00:09:57,968 --> 00:09:59,273 would put -271 +269 00:09:59,273 --> 00:10:00,458 "Sesame Street" on one screen, and this thing called the -272 +270 00:10:00,458 --> 00:10:01,643 distractor -273 +271 00:10:01,643 --> 00:10:05,182 on the other screen. And every seven seconds, this -274 +272 00:10:05,182 --> 00:10:07,793 distractor would display these still images that would switch. -275 +273 00:10:07,942 --> 00:10:10,283 -So every seven seconds, a -different image. And you'd put +So, every seven seconds, a +different image. And you'd put, -276 +274 00:10:10,283 --> 00:10:11,528 -like 20 kids in the room, and +like, 20 kids in the room, and the researchers would just look -277 +275 00:10:11,528 --> 00:10:12,773 at +276 +00:10:12,773 --> 00:10:13,732 +their eyes and be like, "Are +they looking at the distractor? + +277 +00:10:13,732 --> 00:10:14,691 +Are + 278 -00:10:12,773 --> 00:10:14,692 -their eyes and be like, are they -looking at the distractor? Are +00:10:14,692 --> 00:10:15,967 +they looking at "Sesame +Street"?" And then, they would 279 -00:10:14,692 --> 00:10:17,243 -they looking at "Sesame Street"? -And then, they would go back and +00:10:15,967 --> 00:10:17,242 +go back and 280 -00:10:17,243 --> 00:10:19,523 +00:10:17,243 --> 00:10:18,383 they'd graph it after they'd -done, like a couple of cycles of +done, like, a couple of cycles 281 +00:10:18,383 --> 00:10:19,523 +of + +282 00:10:19,523 --> 00:10:20,797 kids. And they'd see what are the parts of the TV show that -282 +283 00:10:20,797 --> 00:10:22,071 kids -283 +284 00:10:22,072 --> 00:10:23,952 were disengaged with, that we need to re-engineer? And that -284 +285 00:10:23,952 --> 00:10:25,832 -was like the +was-- like, the -285 +286 00:10:25,832 --> 00:10:27,543 first that I was like, "Man, if -they could do that in the +they could do that in the 80s, -286 +287 00:10:27,543 --> 00:10:30,633 -80s, why can't, like in --" you +why can't, like, in ..." you know, this was, I guess, like, -287 +288 00:10:30,663 --> 00:10:33,932 2010. I'm like, "Why can't we do that, like, in real time, live, -288 +289 00:10:33,932 --> 00:10:35,470 while I'm teaching in class?" -And that was -- my first project +And that was-- my first project -289 +290 00:10:35,470 --> 00:10:37,008 was I -290 +291 00:10:37,008 --> 00:10:40,427 wanted to build something that did that. And I had learned that -291 +292 00:10:40,427 --> 00:10:43,217 Hasbro had put out this toy -called the hi- like the Star +called the hi- like, the Star -292 +293 00:10:43,217 --> 00:10:45,302 Wars force trainer, where everything was ridiculous -293 +294 00:10:45,302 --> 00:10:47,387 -[chuckles]. So I -- we'd have -like +[chuckles]. So I-- we'd have, +like, -294 +295 00:10:47,388 --> 00:10:50,087 a headset that you'd put on. And it turns out this thing could -295 +296 00:10:50,087 --> 00:10:52,337 -actually take a, like a low +actually take a-- like, a low level EEG reading of brain -296 +297 00:10:52,337 --> 00:10:54,587 -activity, like if +activity, like, if -297 +298 00:10:54,587 --> 00:10:56,440 your brain was active or not. And then, like, the toy would -298 +299 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,293 connect -299 +300 00:10:58,293 --> 00:11:00,153 wirelessly to this base unit that had a fan, that would spin -300 +301 00:11:00,153 --> 00:11:02,013 a ball -301 +302 00:11:02,163 --> 00:11:04,952 -up and down in this toy. And so -it like, hence the force +up and down in this toy. And so, +it, like—hence the force -302 +303 00:11:04,952 --> 00:11:07,263 -trainer, is you concentrate +trainer—is you concentrate really hard, and you can use the -303 +304 00:11:07,263 --> 00:11:09,528 force to move this ball up and down [laughs]. Like, really cool -304 +305 00:11:09,528 --> 00:11:11,793 toy, right? And I -305 -00:11:11,793 --> 00:11:12,843 +306 +00:11:11,793 --> 00:11:13,893 said, "Well, if I could just get the electrical signal out of -306 -00:11:12,843 --> 00:11:13,893 -that - 307 00:11:13,893 --> 00:11:16,503 -into my computer and graph it, -that would be the whole +that into my computer and graph +it, that would be the whole 308 00:11:16,503 --> 00:11:20,283 thing." And that was my first -foray into tech, was -- I, like, +foray into tech, was-- I, like, 309 00:11:20,893 --> 00:11:21,922 -started -- I was like, "Okay. +started-- I was like, "Okay. Well, how do I get the 310 @@ -1457,16 +1458,16 @@ know, I learned about 313 00:11:29,972 --> 00:11:32,582 microprocessors, and the Arduino -had to like just come out at the +had to-- like, just come out at 314 00:11:32,582 --> 00:11:34,892 -time. And so I started like -getting these -- like, yeah, I +the time. And so, I started, +like, getting these, like-- 315 00:11:34,892 --> 00:11:37,202 -found that +yeah, I found that 316 00:11:37,202 --> 00:11:38,252 @@ -1479,16 +1480,16 @@ ones they are 318 00:11:39,302 --> 00:11:40,547 -making for adults. So that -- I -got all these like kids' books +making for adults. So that-- I +got all these, like, kids' 319 00:11:40,547 --> 00:11:41,792 -and +books and 320 00:11:42,212 --> 00:11:43,882 -started like doing these +started, like, doing these experiments. And then I- I 321 @@ -1503,7 +1504,7 @@ go down to the electrical 323 00:11:48,192 --> 00:11:49,287 department and be like, "Hey, -guy. I was teaching like math +guy. I was teaching, like, math 324 00:11:49,287 --> 00:11:50,382 @@ -1516,12 +1517,12 @@ there." They're like, "Hey, can 326 00:11:51,643 --> 00:11:52,903 -you do +you do some 327 00:11:52,903 --> 00:11:54,328 -some soldering for me? And like, -put these --" And it, you know, +soldering for me? And, like, put +these--" And it, you know, 328 00:11:54,328 --> 00:11:55,753 @@ -1529,7 +1530,7 @@ at this 329 00:11:55,753 --> 00:11:57,388 -point, it would like kind of +point, it would, like-- kind of become this, like, project, and 330 @@ -1538,7 +1539,7 @@ I gotta 331 00:11:59,023 --> 00:12:03,222 -working after, you know, on the +working after-- you know, on the code side. I learned that 332 @@ -1562,778 +1563,778 @@ that working. And then I, you 336 00:12:10,153 --> 00:12:12,283 -know, like six +know, like, six 337 -00:12:12,283 --> 00:12:13,528 +00:12:12,283 --> 00:12:14,773 months later, presented it at a -conference down in Saskatoon — +conference down in Saskatoon—one 338 -00:12:13,528 --> 00:12:14,773 -one - -339 00:12:14,773 --> 00:12:16,747 of the cities in Saskatchewan. And at that point, I was hooked. -340 +339 00:12:16,747 --> 00:12:18,721 And, -341 +340 00:12:19,202 --> 00:12:20,747 -you know, from there, I- I just --- I really wanted to continue +you know, from there, I- I +just-- I really wanted to -342 +341 00:12:20,747 --> 00:12:22,292 -making +continue making -343 +342 00:12:22,293 --> 00:12:23,703 things that would make me a better teacher. And that drove -344 +343 00:12:23,703 --> 00:12:25,113 me -345 +344 00:12:25,113 --> 00:12:28,113 for a long time. And then, you know, a-a couple of years after -346 +345 00:12:28,113 --> 00:12:29,748 that, I- I started doing reflection of what do I want in -347 +346 00:12:29,748 --> 00:12:31,383 terms of a -348 +347 00:12:31,383 --> 00:12:33,047 -career, and a lifestyle, and +career, and a lifestyle, and, like, what are the things I'm -349 +348 00:12:33,047 --> 00:12:34,711 after? -350 +349 00:12:34,712 --> 00:12:36,452 And that really kind of led me to getting interested in, you -351 +350 00:12:36,452 --> 00:12:38,192 know, code -352 +351 00:12:38,192 --> 00:12:42,543 as a career. And there weren't really, you know, -353 +352 00:12:42,543 --> 00:12:45,033 bootcamps and Coursera. I don't even think they had been really -354 +353 00:12:45,033 --> 00:12:46,562 created at that point, or launched, or, you know, the -355 +354 00:12:46,562 --> 00:12:48,091 whole suite of -356 +355 00:12:48,123 --> 00:12:50,582 the EdEx, Udemy, Coursera, awesome websites for these -357 +356 00:12:50,582 --> 00:12:54,363 things, right? So it was a lot -of learning. It was -- I, you +of learning. It was-- I-- you -358 +357 00:12:54,363 --> 00:12:57,092 know, I did that all while I had a full-time job. And, you know, -359 +358 00:12:57,092 --> 00:12:59,492 fast forward a-a number of -years, I launched Typist — the +years, I launched Typist—the -360 +359 00:12:59,492 --> 00:13:01,892 company I -361 +360 00:13:01,893 --> 00:13:03,737 -now have run — I made a little +now have run—I made a little small passion project that I -362 +361 00:13:03,737 --> 00:13:05,581 sometimes call -363 +362 00:13:05,582 --> 00:13:10,442 -it. At the same time, I -- AI +it. At the same time, I-- AI exploded. And this was maybe -364 +363 00:13:10,442 --> 00:13:12,872 -six or -- a six-ish -- six, -seven years ago now. At AI, if +six or-- a six-ish-- six, seven +years ago now. At AI, if -365 +364 00:13:12,872 --> 00:13:15,302 nothing else, -366 +365 00:13:15,302 --> 00:13:16,922 is a combination of computer -science, and it's like a really +science, and it's, like, a -367 +366 00:13:16,922 --> 00:13:18,542 -strong +really strong -368 +367 00:13:18,543 --> 00:13:22,682 math background. And, you know, back then, more emphasis on -369 +368 00:13:22,682 --> 00:13:25,113 -the math, but today maybe more +the math. But today, maybe more emphasis on the computer science -370 +369 00:13:25,113 --> 00:13:28,165 side. And- and so, I-IBM came knocking and said, "Hey, we are -371 +370 00:13:28,165 --> 00:13:31,217 trying to -372 +371 00:13:31,278 --> 00:13:35,717 -hire AI expertise." And I -- and +hire AI expertise." And I-- and at that point, I had some -373 +372 00:13:35,717 --> 00:13:37,982 -projects that like, I was +projects that, like-- I was experimenting a lot in AI. And -374 +373 00:13:37,982 --> 00:13:40,247 -so +so, -375 +374 00:13:40,248 --> 00:13:42,738 -they brought me into -- they -offered me like dream job to go +they brought me into-- they +offered me, like, dream job to -376 +375 00:13:42,738 --> 00:13:44,912 -in and be on this new open +go in and be on this new open source team that they're putting -377 +376 00:13:44,912 --> 00:13:47,086 across -378 +377 00:13:47,087 --> 00:13:48,767 Canada. And I'd get to work with -all their -- these huge +all their-- these huge -379 +378 00:13:48,767 --> 00:13:50,447 companies, and help -380 +379 00:13:50,447 --> 00:13:51,722 them do AI better, and solve these problems. And that sounded -381 +380 00:13:51,722 --> 00:13:52,997 like a -382 +381 00:13:52,998 --> 00:13:54,480 blast. So I did that for a number of years. And then later, -383 +382 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:55,962 I -384 +383 00:13:56,173 --> 00:13:59,503 moved over to Microsoft to do a -similar type work, like more- +similar type work, like, more- -385 +384 00:13:59,533 --> 00:14:01,633 more hands. I wanted to get deeper into projects, and -386 +385 00:14:01,633 --> 00:14:02,773 Microsoft gave me that opportunity to go deeper into -387 +386 00:14:02,773 --> 00:14:03,913 data -388 +387 00:14:04,482 --> 00:14:07,962 science projects with, you know, companies. And all for -389 +388 00:14:07,962 --> 00:14:09,552 free. Like, these companies would just parachute me in. Or -390 +389 00:14:09,552 --> 00:14:11,142 -IBM would just -- +IBM would just-- -391 +390 00:14:11,232 --> 00:14:12,657 Microsoft would just parachute -me in, and it's like, "Yeah. We- +me in, and it's like, "Yeah. -392 +391 00:14:12,657 --> 00:14:14,082 -we're +We-- we're -393 +392 00:14:14,082 --> 00:14:16,332 gonna help you do data science better because if you do it on -394 +393 00:14:16,332 --> 00:14:17,774 our cloud, we're gonna make a -lot of money." So I'd get to go, +lot of money." So, I'd get to -395 +394 00:14:17,774 --> 00:14:19,216 -and just +go, and just, -396 +395 00:14:19,217 --> 00:14:21,768 -like pick my projects, and go -onsite. I get like a badge. It +like, pick my projects, and go +onsite—I get, like, a badge. It -397 +396 00:14:21,768 --> 00:14:24,798 -was awesome. And, you know, and +was awesome—and-- you know, and build out these data science -398 +397 00:14:24,798 --> 00:14:26,088 -projects. And all the while, on +projects, and all the while, on my evenings and weekends, -399 +398 00:14:26,088 --> 00:14:27,378 building -400 +399 00:14:27,378 --> 00:14:29,088 out Typist, trying to get it to the place where it could -401 +400 00:14:29,088 --> 00:14:30,798 support, -402 +401 00:14:31,038 --> 00:14:32,372 you know, a basic income for me, and I could work on it -403 +402 00:14:32,372 --> 00:14:33,706 full-time, -404 +403 00:14:33,707 --> 00:14:38,057 which eventually happened. And- and, you know, that sort of -405 +404 00:14:38,057 --> 00:14:39,990 switch over process was scary and, you know, different than -406 +405 00:14:39,990 --> 00:14:41,923 -I'm -- had +I'm-- had -407 +406 00:14:41,923 --> 00:14:45,793 imagined it would be. But eventually, my boss at Microsoft -408 +407 00:14:45,793 --> 00:14:47,382 was like, "Matt, you gotta go do -this. You- you -- it's there." +this. You- you-- it's there." -409 +408 00:14:47,382 --> 00:14:48,971 Like, "Go do this -410 +409 00:14:48,972 --> 00:14:52,302 thing." And- and I- and I did. -And I -- and that's what I've +And I-- and that's what I've -411 +410 00:14:52,302 --> 00:14:54,253 been working on for the last three or four years. -412 +411 00:14:55,633 --> 00:14:58,785 Bekah: That's- that's amazing. I have to ask about that switch. -413 +412 00:14:58,785 --> 00:15:01,937 Cuz I -414 +413 00:15:01,937 --> 00:15:05,327 -feel like that sounds like s-s-s --- very scary [chuckles]. Like, +feel like that sounds like +s-s-s-- very scary [chuckles]. -415 +414 00:15:05,327 --> 00:15:08,717 -giving up all of the +Like, giving up all of the -416 +415 00:15:08,717 --> 00:15:12,918 stuff that you've been doing with a team, with all of these -417 +416 00:15:12,918 --> 00:15:16,382 resources, and then just jumping into this entrepreneur journey. -418 +417 00:15:16,382 --> 00:15:19,846 I- I know -419 +418 00:15:19,847 --> 00:15:23,687 that you said that you had some -encouragement, but like, what +encouragement but, like, what -420 +419 00:15:23,687 --> 00:15:27,227 really pushed you to go all in on Typist? -421 +420 00:15:27,727 --> 00:15:31,687 -Matt: Ah, you know, it was -- -it- it was really, really hard. +Matt: Ah, you know, it was-- it- +it was really, really hard. -422 +421 00:15:31,927 --> 00:15:35,090 You know, I- I- I guess, like, one of the big factors was I -423 +422 00:15:35,090 --> 00:15:38,253 thought -424 -00:15:38,613 --> 00:15:41,013 +423 +00:15:38,613 --> 00:15:43,413 that we- we had a project lined -up for Typist. And- and Typist - -425 -00:15:41,013 --> 00:15:43,413 --- +up for Typist. And- and Typist-- -426 +424 00:15:43,442 --> 00:15:45,753 maybe this is the appropriate time to kinda speak to what it -427 +425 00:15:45,753 --> 00:15:50,552 is. We make software for community college students who -428 +426 00:15:50,552 --> 00:15:52,277 are taking a certain set of -courses. So our- our first +courses. So, our- our first -429 +427 00:15:52,277 --> 00:15:54,002 product was -430 +428 00:15:54,003 --> 00:15:55,990 for community college students who are taking keyboarding -431 +429 00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:57,977 courses. And -432 +430 00:15:58,008 --> 00:16:00,798 those are people studying programs to be law clerks, or -433 +431 00:16:00,798 --> 00:16:02,957 legal assistance, medical assistance, or even executive -434 +432 00:16:02,957 --> 00:16:04,862 -assistants. And very -- and, you +assistants. And very-- and, you know, there's interesting -435 +433 00:16:04,862 --> 00:16:06,767 demographics -436 +434 00:16:06,768 --> 00:16:09,197 -in those programs, such as -- a +in those programs, such as-- a reason I'm really passionate to -437 +435 00:16:09,197 --> 00:16:13,638 work on and honored to build software for that group. And -438 +436 00:16:13,638 --> 00:16:15,182 then we have this second product, which at that point, -439 +437 00:16:15,182 --> 00:16:16,726 -Bekah, was -- +Bekah, was-- -440 +438 00:16:17,177 --> 00:16:19,852 -I was really -- we had scoped it -out. And it was the -- and this +I was really-- we had scoped it +out. And it was the-- and this -441 +439 00:16:19,852 --> 00:16:22,527 thing called -442 +440 00:16:22,528 --> 00:16:25,408 'document production'. So, you know, people that go in these -443 +441 00:16:25,408 --> 00:16:26,757 fields need to be able to make a professionally formatted -444 +442 00:16:26,757 --> 00:16:28,106 business -445 +443 00:16:28,107 --> 00:16:30,778 letter that has these exact -traits and the -- it's sort of a +traits and the-- it's sort of a -446 +444 00:16:30,778 --> 00:16:34,827 vocational skill. And in that -particular field, it's rated as +particular field, it's rated as, -447 +445 00:16:34,827 --> 00:16:36,567 -like a top three employment -skill to -- by all every +like, a top three employment +skill to-- by all every -448 +446 00:16:36,567 --> 00:16:38,307 industry -449 +447 00:16:38,307 --> 00:16:41,278 survey that's ever been done. And it's really, really hard to -450 +448 00:16:41,278 --> 00:16:46,952 -teach. And I -- we had -- one of -the colle- I've been like kinda +teach. And I-- we had-- one of +the colle- I've been, like, -451 +449 00:16:46,952 --> 00:16:47,912 -kicking the tires with the +kinda kicking the tires with the people who are using our -452 +450 00:16:47,912 --> 00:16:48,872 keyboarding -453 +451 00:16:48,873 --> 00:16:49,993 software, and be like, "Hey, does anyone wanna partner to -454 +452 00:16:49,993 --> 00:16:51,113 build this with us? -455 +453 00:16:51,373 --> 00:16:52,927 -And by partner, just like give +And by partner, just, like, give us feedback, tell us- tell us -456 +454 00:16:52,927 --> 00:16:54,481 what -457 +455 00:16:54,482 --> 00:16:56,102 to build, like whiteboard. And- and ideally, if we build you -458 +456 00:16:56,102 --> 00:16:57,722 something -459 +457 00:16:57,722 --> 00:16:59,732 that you really liked, be the, you know, the person to use it -460 +458 00:16:59,732 --> 00:17:01,742 and give us -461 +459 00:17:01,743 --> 00:17:04,952 the reference so that we can -maybe expand this." And I -- and +maybe expand this." And I-- and -462 +460 00:17:05,012 --> 00:17:06,017 that was a big part of the decision was I had all that -463 +461 00:17:06,017 --> 00:17:07,022 lined -464 +462 00:17:07,022 --> 00:17:11,883 -up. And so for the six to seven -months prior to that, and +up. And so, for the six to seven +months prior to that—and -465 +463 00:17:11,883 --> 00:17:15,423 -this was the final push, I had +this was the final push—I had outsourced the development of it -466 -00:17:15,423 --> 00:17:20,252 -to a really great developer who --- it -- like, grades, you know, +464 +00:17:15,423 --> 00:17:17,837 +to a really great developer +who-- it-- like, grades-- you -467 +465 +00:17:17,837 --> 00:17:20,251 +know, + +466 00:17:20,432 --> 00:17:24,992 really, really talented Rails developer. And we had a -468 +467 00:17:24,992 --> 00:17:28,323 prototype. And we went back to this college and presented this. -469 +468 00:17:28,323 --> 00:17:30,153 And I'd take vacation days anytime I had to go take -470 +469 00:17:30,153 --> 00:17:31,682 -meetings, right? So all of my -vacation for those like four +meetings, right? So, all of my +vacation for those, like, four -471 +470 00:17:31,682 --> 00:17:33,211 years was -472 +471 00:17:33,212 --> 00:17:36,272 -consumed by Typist. And so I'd +consumed by Typist. And so, I'd take a vacation day. I'd go, -473 +472 00:17:36,272 --> 00:17:37,607 and we'd present this back to the group. And they had said, -474 +473 00:17:37,607 --> 00:17:38,942 "Yes. If -475 +474 00:17:38,942 --> 00:17:41,012 -you can build it and it can do +you can build it, and it can do these things, but we need these -476 +475 00:17:41,012 --> 00:17:45,573 changes, you know, we'll use it." But at that point, I looked -477 +476 00:17:45,573 --> 00:17:47,703 -with -- like- like, how we had +with-- like- like, how we had constructed the software. And I -478 +477 00:17:47,703 --> 00:17:49,833 said, "It's not -479 +478 00:17:49,833 --> 00:17:51,618 gonna get us to the finish -line." We were, you know, +line." We were, you know-- -480 +479 00:17:51,618 --> 00:17:53,403 -specifically we'd +specifically, we'd -481 +480 00:17:53,403 --> 00:17:55,008 -built it in Rails, and it -- +built it in Rails, and it-- like, it all works with file IO. -482 +481 00:17:55,008 --> 00:17:56,613 -So either you +So, either you -483 +482 00:17:56,623 --> 00:17:58,358 -need to upload this file and +need to upload this file, and then we would go compare it to -484 +483 00:17:58,358 --> 00:18:00,093 this -485 -00:18:00,153 --> 00:18:01,592 +484 +00:18:00,153 --> 00:18:03,032 other file. And they're both Word documents, which are -486 -00:18:01,592 --> 00:18:03,031 -incredibly - -487 +485 00:18:03,032 --> 00:18:03,033 -hard to work with. +incredibly hard to work with. -488 +486 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,000 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -489 +487 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,004 -Matt: And we, like, you know, +Matt: And we, like-- you know, the- the way all the existing -490 +488 00:18:07,004 --> 00:18:10,008 previous software, like, if there's a typo in a paragraph, -491 +489 00:18:10,248 --> 00:18:12,647 you lost all the marks of the -paragraph, because doing fuzzy +paragraph because doing fuzzy -492 -00:18:12,647 --> 00:18:14,777 -matching is like really, really -hard. And we just -- I- I sat +490 +00:18:12,647 --> 00:18:13,712 +matching is, like, really, +really hard. And we just-- I- I -493 +491 +00:18:13,712 --> 00:18:14,777 +sat + +492 00:18:14,777 --> 00:18:16,907 there -494 +493 00:18:16,907 --> 00:18:18,077 and I'm like, "We can't do this -in our web server." This -- it +in our web server. This-- it -495 +494 00:18:18,077 --> 00:18:19,247 -takes like 20 +takes, like, 20 -496 +495 00:18:19,248 --> 00:18:20,912 seconds to process a single -file, we'll be in classes, +file. We'll be in classes, -497 +496 00:18:20,912 --> 00:18:22,576 they'll do a test, -498 +497 00:18:23,282 --> 00:18:24,512 -they'll get 30 uploads at once, -we'll never be able to handle +they'll get 30 uploads at once. +We'll never be able to handle -499 +498 00:18:24,512 --> 00:18:25,742 the spike in +499 +00:18:25,742 --> 00:18:27,027 +traffic, we'll never be able +to-- we- we don't wanna web + 500 -00:18:25,742 --> 00:18:28,313 -traffic, we'll never be able to --- we- we don't wanna web server +00:18:27,027 --> 00:18:28,312 +server 501 00:18:28,313 --> 00:18:29,938 -sitting idle for it. And I just, -long story short, knew and I -- +sitting idle for it." And I +just—long story short—knew, and 502 00:18:29,938 --> 00:18:31,563 -we had to +I-- we had to 503 00:18:31,563 --> 00:18:34,442 @@ -2343,7 +2344,7 @@ from scratch. And we had five 504 00:18:34,442 --> 00:18:37,432 months to do it. We had gone in -and already produced like -- we +and already produced, like-- we 505 00:18:37,442 --> 00:18:38,732 @@ -2361,12 +2362,12 @@ away everything that we'd done, 508 00:18:42,722 --> 00:18:45,962 -and build it from scratch, and --- which we did. So that was +and build it from scratch, and-- +which we did. So, that was, 509 00:18:45,962 --> 00:18:48,122 -like the imme- there's an +like, the imme- there's an immediacy which helped, I guess, 510 @@ -2375,7 +2376,7 @@ make that decision 511 00:18:50,282 --> 00:18:51,827 -of like, I'd -- like -- so when +of, like, I'd-- like-- so, when I went in and had that 512 @@ -2393,8 +2394,8 @@ explaining 515 00:18:56,792 --> 00:18:59,267 -this all to her. She's like -- -I'm- I'm like -- I was scay +this all to her. She's like-- +I'm- I'm like-- I was scay 516 00:18:59,267 --> 00:19:01,742 @@ -2422,11 +2423,11 @@ I've- I've got to 521 00:19:13,008 --> 00:19:17,357 start, right now." And she's -like, "Yep. Do it." And at that +like, "Yep, do it." And at that 522 00:19:17,357 --> 00:19:18,947 -point, I ... like almost on the +point, I ... like, almost on the spot gave my notice. I talked to 523 @@ -2459,7 +2460,7 @@ right? I mean, kinda betting 529 00:19:37,114 --> 00:19:38,000 -on yourself and -- I mean, it- +on yourself and-- I mean, it- 530 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,000 @@ -2468,11 +2469,11 @@ Matt: Yeah. 531 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,351 Dan: -might be wasn't much of a -bet. Have you -- did you have a +bet. Have you-- did you have a 532 00:19:41,351 --> 00:19:43,702 -good idea of -- so you said you +good idea of-- so, you said you had to, you know, tear it down 533 @@ -2482,11 +2483,11 @@ and- and rebuild 534 00:19:46,054 --> 00:19:48,108 it. Did you have a good idea at -that, like, moment of like what +that, like, moment of, like, 535 00:19:48,108 --> 00:19:50,162 -it was +what it was 536 00:19:50,163 --> 00:19:52,713 @@ -2494,5410 +2495,5175 @@ gonna look like when you were finished rebuilding it or were 537 -00:19:52,713 --> 00:19:53,943 -you just like, we have, like -- -are start from scratch, and I +00:19:52,713 --> 00:19:55,173 +you just like, "We have," like, +"are-- start from scratch, and I 538 -00:19:53,943 --> 00:19:55,173 -have no - -539 00:19:55,173 --> 00:19:55,923 -idea, you know? +have no idea," you know? -540 +539 00:19:56,084 --> 00:19:58,239 -Matt: Yeah. We- we knew that -- +Matt: Yeah. We- we knew that, and- and I did. And maybe, you -541 +540 00:19:58,239 --> 00:20:00,394 -know, I -- and +know, I-- and -542 +541 00:20:00,394 --> 00:20:01,963 -I'm happy to speak to the kinda -the details of it, because I +I'm happy to speak to the-- +kinda the details of it, because -543 +542 00:20:01,963 --> 00:20:03,000 -think they're interesting if -that's ... you know? +I think they're interesting if +that's-- you know? -544 +543 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:03,000 Bekah: Yeah, sure. -545 +544 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:04,000 Dan: Yeah. -546 +545 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,392 -Matt: So, like, we, you know, I +Matt: So, like, we-- you know, I mentioned we couldn't do this on -547 +546 00:20:07,392 --> 00:20:09,784 -web servers. Because like, you +web servers. Because, like, you -548 +547 00:20:09,784 --> 00:20:11,209 know, the really simple use case was that if 20 students are -549 +548 00:20:11,209 --> 00:20:12,634 doing -550 +549 00:20:12,634 --> 00:20:13,698 a test, and they all upload their documents at once, and -551 +550 00:20:13,698 --> 00:20:14,762 they take -552 +551 00:20:14,763 --> 00:20:16,593 25 seconds to process, web servers just can't do that. We -553 +552 00:20:16,593 --> 00:20:18,423 would have -554 +553 00:20:18,423 --> 00:20:21,243 -to have like this incredible +to have, like, this incredible scale that would just be so -555 +554 00:20:21,243 --> 00:20:26,709 expensive, we couldn't run the -business. And so, the -- my- +business. And so, the-- my- -556 +555 00:20:26,959 --> 00:20:29,248 my theory was that we needed a couple of things. We needed to -557 +556 00:20:29,248 --> 00:20:31,537 not be -558 +557 00:20:31,538 --> 00:20:33,293 -using Ruby because like a- a +using Ruby because, like, a- a Node based system made a lot -559 +558 00:20:33,293 --> 00:20:35,048 more -560 +559 00:20:35,048 --> 00:20:38,078 sense in the way that a Node event loop works, you know? And- -561 -00:20:38,558 --> 00:20:40,433 +560 +00:20:38,558 --> 00:20:42,308 and the second thing was we needed a way to deploy these -562 -00:20:40,433 --> 00:20:42,308 -sort - -563 +561 00:20:42,308 --> 00:20:43,433 -of algorithms that we were +sort of algorithms that we were building in a way that can -564 +562 00:20:43,433 --> 00:20:44,558 handle -565 +563 00:20:44,558 --> 00:20:48,534 -these spikes in traffic. And at +these spikes in traffic, and at that point, sort of lamb- this -566 +564 00:20:48,534 --> 00:20:51,773 -Lambda architecture which is, +Lambda architecture. Which is, you know, all the clouds have a -567 +565 00:20:51,773 --> 00:20:53,408 -product for this. So in +product for this. So, in Microsoft is called Azure -568 +566 00:20:53,408 --> 00:20:55,043 functions, in AWS -569 +567 00:20:55,044 --> 00:20:57,518 -is called Lambda, in -- you can -have -- net- Netlify just +is called Lambda, in-- you can +have-- net- Netlify just -570 +568 00:20:57,518 --> 00:20:59,992 launched one, I -571 +569 00:20:59,993 --> 00:21:02,034 think, actually, and Cloudflare has one called Cloudflare -572 +570 00:21:02,034 --> 00:21:03,728 functions too. But they -basically work that like +basically work that, like, -573 +571 00:21:03,728 --> 00:21:05,422 something happens, -574 +572 00:21:05,423 --> 00:21:06,863 -and these -- they spin up your +and these-- they spin up your code, and they do the thing you -575 +573 00:21:06,863 --> 00:21:08,303 want it to do, and -576 +574 00:21:08,304 --> 00:21:11,394 then they spin down, and you can throw a thousand at them. And -577 +575 00:21:11,423 --> 00:21:13,673 they, you know, a thousand instances will spit up, you'll -578 +576 00:21:13,673 --> 00:21:15,350 pay for the time they're up, and -then they'll turn off, and +then, they'll turn off, and -579 +577 00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:17,027 -you're done. And so +you're done. And so, -580 +578 00:21:17,088 --> 00:21:19,023 that was kind of what I knew was that we had to rewrite this into -581 +579 00:21:19,023 --> 00:21:20,958 -that -- +that-- -582 +580 00:21:21,078 --> 00:21:23,898 this Lambda type architecture that could handle these spikes. -583 +581 00:21:24,429 --> 00:21:25,753 -We had to use -- we had to -switch languages. So we had to +We had to use-- we had to switch +languages. So, we had to -584 +582 00:21:25,753 --> 00:21:27,077 use a -585 +583 00:21:27,078 --> 00:21:28,368 language that was compatible -there in -- while supported, and +there in-- while supported, and -586 +584 00:21:28,368 --> 00:21:29,658 Ruby -587 +585 00:21:29,659 --> 00:21:31,398 wasn't supported at all. So that had to go to JavaScript. And -588 +586 00:21:31,398 --> 00:21:33,137 then -589 +587 00:21:33,169 --> 00:21:35,628 -there was, you know, to your -question, Dan, there- there were +there was, you know—to your +question, Dan—there- there were -590 +588 00:21:35,628 --> 00:21:37,688 questions that I was really, really concerned about, which -591 +589 00:21:37,688 --> 00:21:39,748 -were, how +were, "how -592 +590 00:21:39,749 --> 00:21:41,698 -are we going to go in and like -that problem on evaluation? So +are we going to go in and, like, +that problem on evaluation?" So, -593 +591 00:21:41,698 --> 00:21:43,647 if -594 +592 00:21:43,648 --> 00:21:44,188 you're a student, you upload this document, and you're off -595 -00:21:44,188 --> 00:21:44,728 -by, - -596 -00:21:44,728 --> 00:21:45,808 -like, +593 +00:21:44,188 --> 00:21:45,808 +by, like, -597 +594 00:21:45,808 --> 00:21:49,229 two characters, we couldn't take off all of the marks, right? So -598 +595 00:21:49,229 --> 00:21:52,648 we had to be able to go in and compare the texts. We expected -599 +596 00:21:52,648 --> 00:21:54,328 students to type in the text that they did type, and take off -600 +597 00:21:54,328 --> 00:21:56,008 -some of -- like of -- like +some of-- like, of-- like, -601 +598 00:21:56,669 --> 00:22:00,028 type of marks of as proportions to do that, and give meaningful -602 +599 00:22:00,028 --> 00:22:02,398 feedback on the other side. And at that point, I had no idea how -603 +600 00:22:02,398 --> 00:22:07,433 we're gonna solve that problem. Yeah, which we, you know, later -604 +601 00:22:07,433 --> 00:22:10,463 figured out a way to. And even just converting, like, how do we -605 +602 00:22:10,463 --> 00:22:12,188 -even -- so, you know, just as a -quick comment, DOCX files are +even-- so, you know—just as a +quick comment—DOCX files are -606 +603 00:22:12,188 --> 00:22:13,913 really -607 +604 00:22:13,913 --> 00:22:15,834 -hard to work with, but here's -like a fun thing you can do. If +hard to work with, but here's, +like, a fun thing you can do. -608 +605 00:22:15,834 --> 00:22:17,574 -you're on a Windows machine, +If you're on a Windows machine, take a DOCX file to your -609 +606 00:22:17,574 --> 00:22:19,314 desktop, rename -610 +607 00:22:19,314 --> 00:22:22,314 -it to .zip. And then extract it, -and you'll see the general how +it to '.zip'. And then, extract +it, and you'll see the general -611 +608 00:22:22,314 --> 00:22:25,314 -these struck- +how these struck- -612 +609 00:22:25,913 --> 00:22:27,233 files are structured. In- inside, there is all this kind -613 +610 00:22:27,233 --> 00:22:28,553 of markup -614 +611 00:22:28,554 --> 00:22:30,324 that will be a little bit familiar to you if you've seen -615 +612 00:22:30,324 --> 00:22:34,163 XML or HTML before. And you can see all the stuff in there. -616 +613 00:22:34,163 --> 00:22:35,573 -So we knew that we had to like +So we knew that we had to, like, deal with that problem too, -617 +614 00:22:35,573 --> 00:22:36,983 which -618 +615 00:22:36,983 --> 00:22:39,503 we didn't know how we were gonna -handle, because we were using +handle because we were using -619 +616 00:22:39,503 --> 00:22:41,933 these Ruby libraries that kind of abstracted that away for us. -620 +617 00:22:44,003 --> 00:22:46,283 Bekah: Mm. Yeah. So you made -this career journey, I guess. So +this career journey, I guess. -621 +618 00:22:46,283 --> 00:22:48,563 -from +So, from -622 +619 00:22:48,564 --> 00:22:54,443 -math and then you were doing AI, -data science stuff, and then +math, and then you were doing +AI, data science stuff, and then -623 +620 00:22:54,653 --> 00:23:00,324 Rails back-end stuff, and- and now JavaScript and React, right? -624 +621 00:23:01,479 --> 00:23:03,999 Matt: Yeah. And- and, you know, I think the first part of that -625 +622 00:23:03,999 --> 00:23:07,838 -would be like, it's worth -expanding on, like, it was -- +would be like it's worth +expanding on, like, it was-- -626 -00:23:07,898 --> 00:23:09,623 -like when I started learning -code, it, like -- I, you know, - -627 -00:23:09,623 --> 00:23:11,348 -data +623 +00:23:07,898 --> 00:23:12,601 +like, when I started learning +code, it, like-- I-- you know, -628 +624 00:23:11,348 --> 00:23:12,601 -science is generally on in +data science is generally on in Python and R. Like, those are -629 +625 00:23:12,601 --> 00:23:13,854 the -630 +626 00:23:13,854 --> 00:23:17,034 language for data science, and heavy emphasis on Python these -631 +627 00:23:17,034 --> 00:23:20,394 -days. Like, academic, C's are, -but nobody else really does. +days. Like, academic, C's are. +But nobody else really does. -632 +628 00:23:20,933 --> 00:23:22,523 -And so the -- like, I really +And so the-- like, I really didn't know a ton of Python, but -633 +629 00:23:22,523 --> 00:23:24,113 it's -634 +630 00:23:24,114 --> 00:23:27,834 such an approachable language. I -really, that -- like that seven +really-- that-- like, that seven -635 +631 00:23:27,834 --> 00:23:30,266 years of learning code, like, you know, I- I breezed past it -636 +632 00:23:30,266 --> 00:23:32,698 in a -637 +633 00:23:32,699 --> 00:23:35,699 sentence, but that was really hard. It was a lot of evenings -638 +634 00:23:35,699 --> 00:23:39,419 and weekends. I was working full -time that whole time, I, at some +time that whole time. I, at some -639 -00:23:39,419 --> 00:23:42,929 -points, had like even taking on -contract gigs, doing statistical +635 +00:23:39,419 --> 00:23:41,174 +points, had, like, even taking +on contract gigs, doing -640 +636 +00:23:41,174 --> 00:23:42,929 +statistical + +637 00:23:42,929 --> 00:23:46,979 consulting for some stuff. And- and it was webdev that I was -641 -00:23:46,979 --> 00:23:48,538 +638 +00:23:46,979 --> 00:23:50,097 learning during that time, Bekah. And it was, you know, I -642 -00:23:48,538 --> 00:23:50,097 -had - -643 +639 00:23:50,098 --> 00:23:52,375 -started the -- with a -- like +had started the-- with a-- like [chuckles], you know, I started -644 +640 00:23:52,375 --> 00:23:54,652 with HTML, and -645 +641 00:23:54,653 --> 00:23:56,303 -CSS, and had like -- learned +CSS, and had-- like, learned that, and built a personal -646 +642 00:23:56,303 --> 00:23:57,953 -website. +website. And -647 +643 00:23:57,953 --> 00:24:00,473 -And it was like, you know, these +it was, like, you know, these projects, all the way through, -648 +644 00:24:00,473 --> 00:24:02,768 -like I wanted -- like at the +like, I wanted-- like, at the time people were downloading TV -649 +645 00:24:02,768 --> 00:24:05,063 -shows +shows, -650 +646 00:24:05,064 --> 00:24:06,788 -and movies and stuff, maybe +and movies, and stuff, maybe [chuckles], you know, maybe they -651 +647 00:24:06,788 --> 00:24:08,512 shouldn't. But it -652 +648 00:24:08,513 --> 00:24:09,833 -was like really hard. So, like, -if I wanted to go -- if I +was, like, really hard. So, +like, if I wanted to go-- if I -653 +649 00:24:09,833 --> 00:24:11,153 download the new season -654 +650 00:24:11,513 --> 00:24:12,743 of "The Office", I wanted to search "The Office", and have it -655 +651 00:24:12,743 --> 00:24:13,973 organized, -656 +652 00:24:13,973 --> 00:24:15,488 -like Episode 1, Episode 2, +like, Episode 1, Episode 2, Episode 3, and then get rid of -657 +653 00:24:15,488 --> 00:24:17,003 -the ones that +the ones that were, -658 +654 00:24:17,094 --> 00:24:18,766 -were like somebody holding their -camera, and do others. So, does +like, somebody holding their +camera, and do others, so does -659 +655 00:24:18,766 --> 00:24:20,438 a website -660 +656 00:24:20,439 --> 00:24:25,088 -to do that? And it was like so +to do that. And it was, like, so basic. It was a single PHP file -661 -00:24:25,449 --> 00:24:29,259 -that just went and like kind of -scraped the Pirate Bay, and then +657 +00:24:25,449 --> 00:24:27,354 +that just went and, like, kind +of scraped the Pirate Bay, and -662 -00:24:29,348 --> 00:24:31,388 +658 +00:24:27,354 --> 00:24:29,259 +then + +659 +00:24:29,348 --> 00:24:33,428 analyze the file names. And then, I- I had no idea how to -663 -00:24:31,388 --> 00:24:33,428 -use - -664 +660 00:24:33,429 --> 00:24:35,049 -databases, so it would just +use databases, so it would just stick the results [chuckles] -665 +661 00:24:35,049 --> 00:24:36,669 -into like a text +into, like, a text -666 +662 00:24:36,669 --> 00:24:38,926 file [laughs]. I'm like, "Go, -daddy." So it was -- like, - -667 -00:24:38,926 --> 00:24:41,183 -that's where I was +daddy." So it was-- like, -668 -00:24:41,183 --> 00:24:41,184 -starting from. And- +663 +00:24:38,926 --> 00:24:41,184 +that's where I was starting +from. And- -669 +664 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,000 Dan: That's awesome. -670 +665 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,057 -Matt: -it was -- so there's +Matt: -it was-- so, there's-- like, there's that. There were -671 +666 00:24:45,057 --> 00:24:48,114 -... oh, like, oh my god. There's -so many other. Like +... oh-- like, oh my god. +There's so many other. Like, -672 +667 00:24:48,114 --> 00:24:50,304 another one that was fun was when I was teaching at the -673 +668 00:24:50,304 --> 00:24:52,638 college, you'd put all your -marks into like an Excel doc. So +marks into, like, an Excel doc. -674 +669 00:24:52,638 --> 00:24:54,972 -I was like, +So I was like, -675 +670 00:24:54,973 --> 00:24:56,248 "Okay. Well, I want, like, to give my students more contextual -676 +671 00:24:56,248 --> 00:24:57,523 feedback -677 +672 00:24:57,523 --> 00:24:58,588 on how they're doing in the course." So I put it into a -678 +673 00:24:58,588 --> 00:24:59,653 Google -679 +674 00:24:59,653 --> 00:25:00,628 -doc and I was like, "How do I +doc, and I was like, "How do I get this thing to send email?" -680 +675 00:25:00,628 --> 00:25:01,603 And -681 -00:25:01,604 --> 00:25:03,163 -then that was like, one of the -first things I had written in +676 +00:25:01,604 --> 00:25:02,383 +then, that was, like-- one of +the first things I had written -682 +677 +00:25:02,383 --> 00:25:03,162 +in + +678 00:25:03,163 --> 00:25:06,614 -JavaScript, was to like, go take -all my students, and if they're +JavaScript was to, like, go take +all my students. And if they're, -683 +679 00:25:06,614 --> 00:25:08,308 -like -- if they've not done well +like-- if they've not done well on the first two quizzes, send -684 +680 00:25:08,308 --> 00:25:10,002 them -685 -00:25:10,003 --> 00:25:11,763 +681 +00:25:10,003 --> 00:25:13,523 an email that's like, "Hey, you know, John. I- I saw you didn't -686 -00:25:11,763 --> 00:25:13,523 -do - -687 +682 00:25:13,523 --> 00:25:15,594 -very well in the first few +do very well in the first few quizzes. Here are my office -688 +683 00:25:15,594 --> 00:25:16,944 hours. There's also the math help center if you need support. -689 +684 00:25:16,944 --> 00:25:18,294 I'm -690 -00:25:18,294 --> 00:25:21,473 -here for you. Like, you know, -like, really wanna help you turn +685 +00:25:18,294 --> 00:25:19,883 +here for you," like, you know, +like, "really wanna help you -691 +686 +00:25:19,883 --> 00:25:21,472 +turn + +687 00:25:21,473 --> 00:25:22,628 this around [chuckles]." And then, if they were doing really -692 +688 00:25:22,628 --> 00:25:23,783 -well, they'd get +well, they'd get, -693 +689 00:25:23,784 --> 00:25:25,148 -like a more positive note with +like, a more positive note with different content. And there -694 +690 00:25:25,148 --> 00:25:26,512 -were -- I had like +were-- I had, like, -695 +691 00:25:26,513 --> 00:25:27,443 -six different templates, and -then I would just hit go, and +six different templates. And +then, I would just hit go, and -696 +692 00:25:27,443 --> 00:25:28,373 then -697 +693 00:25:28,374 --> 00:25:29,558 everybody would get an email -from me, and like my five +from me, and, like, my five -698 +694 00:25:29,558 --> 00:25:30,742 [unintelligible] sections or -699 +695 00:25:30,743 --> 00:25:31,074 -whatever. I [laughs] -- +whatever. I [laughs]-- -700 +696 00:25:33,084 --> 00:25:35,288 Bekah: [Laughs] I- I- I need that 10 years ago. That would -701 +697 00:25:35,288 --> 00:25:37,492 save me so much -702 +698 00:25:37,493 --> 00:25:40,044 time. Wow. That's amazing. -703 +699 00:25:40,973 --> 00:25:42,203 -Matt: It's great. But like, the +Matt: It's great. But, like, the part that I felt guilty about, -704 +700 00:25:42,203 --> 00:25:43,433 Bekah, it was I'd get -705 +701 00:25:43,433 --> 00:25:44,963 these responses, and be like, -"Wow. You -- thank you for +"Wow. You-- thank you for -706 +702 00:25:44,963 --> 00:25:46,493 taking the time to -707 +703 00:25:46,493 --> 00:25:49,763 -write me this email [all -laughs]." Yeah. You know- you +write me this email." [All +laughs] Yeah. You know- you -708 +704 00:25:49,763 --> 00:25:53,033 -know? I -- it was -- but they -were like -- +know? I-- it was-- but they +were, like-- -709 -00:25:53,673 --> 00:25:54,978 -Bekah: I thought that's a -- +705 +00:25:53,673 --> 00:25:56,283 +Bekah: I thought that's a-- wait. Is that not a product for -710 -00:25:54,978 --> 00:25:56,283 -teachers? Because if - -711 +706 00:25:56,284 --> 00:25:58,713 -it's not, it totally should be. +teachers? Because if it's not, +it totally should be. -712 +707 00:25:58,713 --> 00:25:58,933 Matt: It should be. -713 +708 00:25:58,933 --> 00:25:59,263 -Dan: Was it just like -- that's +Dan: Was it just, like-- that's like- -714 +709 00:25:59,423 --> 00:25:59,874 Matt: Yeah. -715 +710 00:25:59,894 --> 00:26:01,634 -Dan: -a CRM, right? A CRM, -except for students, is like, +Dan: -a CRM, right? A CRM—except +for students—is, like, -716 +711 00:26:01,634 --> 00:26:03,374 you have -717 +712 00:26:03,374 --> 00:26:04,798 all the automated- automated mail campaigns and stuff, you -718 +713 00:26:04,798 --> 00:26:06,222 know [laughs]? -719 +714 00:26:06,433 --> 00:26:09,044 -Except you're- except you're +Except, you're-- except, you're emailing students. It's amazing. -720 +715 00:26:09,104 --> 00:26:09,614 -Bekah: Yes. Yeah. Okay. But this --- I [Matt laughs] need to +Bekah: Yes. Yeah. Okay. But +this-- I [Matt laughs] need to -721 +716 00:26:09,614 --> 00:26:10,124 Google this after we're done. Because- -722 +717 00:26:10,243 --> 00:26:10,973 Dan: It has to exist. -723 +718 00:26:11,443 --> 00:26:14,324 Bekah: -if- if it is a thing, I need to tell everybody that I -724 +719 00:26:14,324 --> 00:26:16,469 -know — that still a teacher — -about it. And if not, then +know—that still a teacher—about +it. And if not, then -725 -00:26:16,469 --> 00:26:18,614 -that's my new - -726 -00:26:18,614 --> 00:26:19,124 -project [chuckles]. +720 +00:26:16,469 --> 00:26:19,124 +that's my new project +[chuckles]. -727 +721 00:26:19,838 --> 00:26:21,248 -Matt: Yeah. It's, you know, so -that was like -- there were +Matt: Yeah. It's-- you know-- +so, that was, like-- there were -728 +722 00:26:21,248 --> 00:26:22,658 these -729 +723 00:26:22,659 --> 00:26:25,449 projects on the way, right? And they were all usually connected -730 +724 00:26:25,449 --> 00:26:27,788 to something I wanted to see in -the world. Like -- and another +the world. Like-- and another -731 +725 00:26:27,788 --> 00:26:29,288 really big one I took on, that -was like less code, but it was, +was, like, less code, but it -732 +726 00:26:29,288 --> 00:26:30,788 -you +was, you know, -733 +727 00:26:30,788 --> 00:26:34,388 -know, it was my first experience +it was-- my first experience with Rails was, you know, we -734 +728 00:26:34,388 --> 00:26:36,315 -had -- I was teaching at the -college and I was helping to +had-- I was teaching at the +college, and I was helping to -735 +729 00:26:36,315 --> 00:26:38,242 volunteer -736 +730 00:26:38,243 --> 00:26:40,374 coach this marketing team, which I don't know what I was -737 +731 00:26:40,374 --> 00:26:44,334 doing there. I was, like, the -math guy, right? And I -- but I +math guy, right? And I-- but I -738 +732 00:26:44,423 --> 00:26:46,644 wanted to get my students more -experiencing the actual -- like, +experiencing the actual-- like, -739 +733 00:26:46,644 --> 00:26:47,708 the part of marketing that really is interesting to me is -740 +734 00:26:47,708 --> 00:26:48,772 the -741 +735 00:26:48,773 --> 00:26:51,894 analytics of it. There's really rich analytics and the math is -742 -00:26:51,894 --> 00:26:56,183 -just super fun to look at, but -there is like, Google Analytics +736 +00:26:51,894 --> 00:26:54,038 +just super fun to look at. But +there is-- like, Google -743 +737 +00:26:54,038 --> 00:26:56,182 +Analytics + +738 00:26:56,183 --> 00:26:57,428 was out there at the time. But it was really hard to get -744 +739 00:26:57,428 --> 00:26:58,673 experience -745 +740 00:26:58,673 --> 00:26:59,618 with actual data. So I thought, -"Well, what if we could get like +"Well, what if we could get, -746 +741 00:26:59,618 --> 00:27:00,563 -a +like, a -747 +742 00:27:00,564 --> 00:27:03,864 website up that would, you know, have a bunch of data that -748 +743 00:27:03,864 --> 00:27:05,303 students could just mess around -with? And we could like do +with? And we could, like, do -749 +744 00:27:05,303 --> 00:27:06,742 stuff. -750 +745 00:27:06,743 --> 00:27:09,503 We could go put posters up and -drive traffic." And- and then +drive traffic." And- and then-- -751 -00:27:09,713 --> 00:27:10,763 +746 +00:27:09,713 --> 00:27:11,813 like, I was also really -interested in — and still am — - -752 -00:27:10,763 --> 00:27:11,813 -in +interested in—and still am—in -753 +747 00:27:11,814 --> 00:27:14,124 volunteerism. And I said, "You know, I've had these great, -754 +748 00:27:14,124 --> 00:27:16,794 -wonderful, like life-changing +wonderful, like, life-changing experience volunteering. Like, -755 +749 00:27:16,854 --> 00:27:21,804 you know, what if we could drive more volunteers to charities?" -756 +750 00:27:21,834 --> 00:27:25,074 And, you know, I was also really attracted to short video format. -757 +751 00:27:25,074 --> 00:27:27,579 So, I sorta took the summer off -and I emailed the -- sort of +and I emailed the-- sort of -758 +752 00:27:27,579 --> 00:27:30,084 CEOs of -759 +753 00:27:30,263 --> 00:27:32,168 charities in Toronto, and said, "Hey, I- I went on, you know, -760 +754 00:27:32,168 --> 00:27:34,073 Facebook and -761 +755 00:27:34,074 --> 00:27:36,144 Craigslist trying to find a videographer who involved here -762 -00:27:36,144 --> 00:27:37,688 -with me." And I did. And we went --- my- my pitch was like, "Hey, - -763 -00:27:37,688 --> 00:27:39,232 -we're +756 +00:27:36,144 --> 00:27:39,232 +with me." And I did. And we +went-- my- my pitch was like, -764 -00:27:39,233 --> 00:27:41,483 -gonna take your CEO. We're gonna -go onsite where +757 +00:27:37,688 --> 00:27:41,483 +"Hey, we're gonna take your CEO. +We're gonna go onsite where -765 +758 00:27:41,483 --> 00:27:44,034 volunteerism is happening. We're -gonna shoot like a 45 second +gonna shoot, like, a 45 second -766 +759 00:27:44,034 --> 00:27:46,973 to one minute video of you telling volunteers why it would -767 -00:27:46,973 --> 00:27:47,843 +760 +00:27:46,973 --> 00:27:48,713 be so great to volunteer with -your -- ther- your - -768 -00:27:47,843 --> 00:27:48,713 -organization." +your-- their-- your -769 +761 00:27:48,713 --> 00:27:50,453 -And we did that. +organization." And we did that. -770 -00:27:50,453 --> 00:27:51,623 -And we did like five of the +762 +00:27:50,453 --> 00:27:52,793 +And we did, like, five of the biggest charities in Toronto. -771 -00:27:51,623 --> 00:27:52,793 -And - -772 +763 00:27:52,794 --> 00:27:54,459 -we put them on a website I call -[chuckles] -- that I called +And we put them on a website I +call [chuckles]-- that I called -773 +764 00:27:54,459 --> 00:27:56,124 -Where The Good Is. And +'Where The Good Is'. And -774 +765 00:27:56,124 --> 00:27:58,074 then we took the marketing ever since. We promoted it around the -775 +766 00:27:58,074 --> 00:27:59,498 college, and then, like, we'd Google in with [unintelligible], -776 +767 00:27:59,498 --> 00:28:00,922 -that they would +that they would, -777 +768 00:28:00,923 --> 00:28:03,203 -like drive the traffic to the +like, drive the traffic to the website, we got to analyze it -778 +769 00:28:03,203 --> 00:28:04,793 all. And it was really fun. And that was, like, my first website -779 +770 00:28:04,793 --> 00:28:06,383 in -780 +771 00:28:06,384 --> 00:28:09,023 Rails. It was a static web page with just a bunch of videos, but -781 +772 00:28:09,263 --> 00:28:11,258 it was a great way to learn. -And- and- and there's probably +And- and- and there's probably, -782 +773 00:28:11,258 --> 00:28:13,253 -like a million +like, a million -783 +774 00:28:13,253 --> 00:28:15,361 other projects that a little, -you know, similar. But those -- +you know, similar. But those-- -784 +775 00:28:15,361 --> 00:28:17,469 that's what I was learning. That -785 +776 00:28:17,618 --> 00:28:20,169 -seven years was -- I was really +seven years was-- I was really getting into web development. I -786 +777 00:28:20,169 --> 00:28:24,128 loved it. I loved making things. And the more relevant they were -787 +778 00:28:24,128 --> 00:28:26,303 for me, the better. And, you -know, my last one, which was +know, my last one, which was, -788 +779 00:28:26,303 --> 00:28:28,478 -like - -789 -00:28:28,479 --> 00:28:30,008 -a full Rails app — that was just -a static page, right — was this +like, -790 -00:28:30,008 --> 00:28:31,537 --- I +780 +00:28:28,479 --> 00:28:31,537 +a full Rails app—that was just a +static page, right?—was this-- -791 +781 00:28:31,538 --> 00:28:33,368 -wanted a Chrome extension. So my -wife, my -- who was my +I wanted a Chrome extension. So, +my wife, my-- who was my -792 +782 00:28:33,368 --> 00:28:35,198 girlfriend -793 +783 00:28:35,199 --> 00:28:37,598 at the time, we could just hit a button in Chrome, and we could -794 +784 00:28:37,598 --> 00:28:39,308 share the webpage that we're -looking at with like a little +looking at with, like, a little -795 +785 00:28:39,308 --> 00:28:41,739 -note. And it would just like +note. And it would just, like, jumped to the other person's -796 +786 00:28:41,739 --> 00:28:43,196 -browser. And so I built a little -app that did that. And that was +browser. And so, I built a +little app that did that. And -797 +787 00:28:43,196 --> 00:28:44,653 -like +that was, like, -798 +788 00:28:44,653 --> 00:28:47,908 the first, you know, full ... -like real, meaningful, like, web +like, real, meaningful, like, -799 +789 00:28:47,908 --> 00:28:51,163 -app, you +web app, you -800 +790 00:28:51,163 --> 00:28:53,458 know? Like, they did stuff on the back end and use the -801 +791 00:28:53,458 --> 00:28:55,753 database. And- and, you -802 +792 00:28:55,753 --> 00:28:58,663 know, during that time also, courses started coming out. So -803 +793 00:28:58,663 --> 00:29:01,513 I took wonderful database course from Stanford, and then, the -804 +794 00:29:01,513 --> 00:29:04,993 University of Washington has amazing courses. And- and -805 +795 00:29:04,993 --> 00:29:06,824 that allowed me to kinda get to the bottom of how these things -806 +796 00:29:06,824 --> 00:29:09,969 worked, which I was incredibly curious about. Like, the -807 +797 00:29:09,969 --> 00:29:11,828 hardware/software interface course from the University of -808 +798 00:29:11,828 --> 00:29:12,773 Washington is just straight up one of the best courses I've -809 +799 00:29:12,773 --> 00:29:13,718 -ever +ever taken. -810 +800 00:29:13,719 --> 00:29:15,114 -taken. Like -- it's like how it, -like, it tackles the problem of +Like-- it's, like, how it-- +like, it tackles the problem -811 +801 00:29:15,114 --> 00:29:16,509 --- +of-- -812 +802 00:29:16,509 --> 00:29:19,749 like, how does the code you type in Python change things in a -813 +803 00:29:19,749 --> 00:29:22,358 -computer, and how does the +computer and how does the computer work it all? And that -814 +804 00:29:22,358 --> 00:29:25,568 -was like the missing gap that I -needed to kind of address. And +was, like, the missing gap that +I needed to kind of address. And -815 +805 00:29:25,989 --> 00:29:29,189 that was a wonderful experience. -And- and yeah, that's what -- +And- and yeah, that's what-- -816 +806 00:29:29,199 --> 00:29:31,778 like, that seven years was like. -And- and then towards the end of +And- and then, towards the end -817 +807 00:29:31,778 --> 00:29:33,188 -it, the- the project that I -made, that kind of got the +of it, the- the project that I +made—that kind of got the -818 +808 00:29:33,188 --> 00:29:34,598 -attention of IBM +attention of IBM—was, -819 +809 00:29:35,588 --> 00:29:37,448 -was, I had like -- had -- this -is [chuckles]- this is -- am I- +I had, like-- had-- this is +[chuckles]- this is-- am I- -820 -00:29:37,448 --> 00:29:39,308 +810 +00:29:37,448 --> 00:29:39,759 am I rambling here? I feel like -I'm - -821 -00:29:39,308 --> 00:29:39,759 -talking about -- +I'm talking about-- -822 +811 00:29:39,759 --> 00:29:40,509 Bekah: No. This is great. -823 +812 00:29:40,509 --> 00:29:40,509 Dan: No. -824 +813 00:29:41,078 --> 00:29:43,418 -Matt: The -- had I -- the ever -big baseball fan, I've got my +Matt: The hat-- I-- the ever big +baseball fan, I've got my -825 +814 00:29:43,418 --> 00:29:45,758 little -826 +815 00:29:45,759 --> 00:29:47,214 Blue Jays hat in the background on- on the yellow shirt behind -827 +816 00:29:47,214 --> 00:29:48,669 me. -828 +817 00:29:48,669 --> 00:29:50,738 And- and we love going to the -Home Opener, which is the first +Home Opener—which is the first -829 +818 00:29:50,738 --> 00:29:52,807 baseball -830 +819 00:29:53,169 --> 00:29:55,643 game of the year. And I had gone, and we buy tickets, but -831 +820 00:29:55,643 --> 00:29:58,117 they always -832 +821 00:29:58,118 --> 00:30:00,338 -sell out, so you have to buy -resale. And resales like three +sell out. So you have to buy +resale. And resales, like, three -833 +822 00:30:00,338 --> 00:30:02,393 -times the price. And we paid -- -that one year, we paid like - -834 -00:30:02,393 --> 00:30:04,448 -$110, +times the price. And we paid-- +that one year, we paid, like, -835 -00:30:04,568 --> 00:30:05,948 -which was outrageous at the time -to sit in like $20 seats at, +823 +00:30:02,393 --> 00:30:05,948 +$110—which was outrageous at the +time—to sit in, like, $20 -836 +824 00:30:05,948 --> 00:30:07,328 -like, +seats at, like, -837 +825 00:30:07,328 --> 00:30:09,138 the top of the stadium. And I was so upset by this, you know? -838 -00:30:09,138 --> 00:30:10,948 -I - -839 -00:30:10,949 --> 00:30:12,679 -was ... really. And then, you +826 +00:30:09,138 --> 00:30:12,679 +I was. Really. And then, you know, one of my friends can -840 +827 00:30:12,679 --> 00:30:14,409 come. So I -841 +828 00:30:14,409 --> 00:30:15,936 -had to -- like, I tried to scalp -the ticket. So I was like +had to-- like, I tried to scalp +the ticket. So, I was, like, -842 +829 00:30:15,936 --> 00:30:17,463 outside the -843 +830 00:30:17,463 --> 00:30:19,218 stadium [Bekah giggles] instead -of like -- and I, like, had, you +of like-- and I, like, had, you -844 +831 00:30:19,218 --> 00:30:20,973 know, a couple of -845 +832 00:30:21,273 --> 00:30:23,223 bottles of juice to give myself the courage to do it [Matt and -846 +833 00:30:23,223 --> 00:30:25,173 Dan laugh]. And- and so, I'm- I'm -847 +834 00:30:25,834 --> 00:30:26,989 standing outside the stadium -with my best cover and I was +with my best cover, and I was -848 +835 00:30:26,989 --> 00:30:28,144 like, "Tickets? -849 +836 00:30:28,173 --> 00:30:31,308 [Bekah laughs] Do you guys need -tickets?" And I remember there's +tickets?" And I remember, -850 +837 00:30:31,308 --> 00:30:34,443 -this -- I'd -- like, of all -- -there's 50,000 +there's this-- I'd-- like, of +all-- there's 50,000 -851 +838 00:30:34,443 --> 00:30:36,304 -people there, of course, like a +people there—of course—like, a friend walks by, and he's like, -852 -00:30:36,304 --> 00:30:37,564 +839 +00:30:36,304 --> 00:30:38,824 "What in the hell are you -doing?" and "What in the heck - -853 -00:30:37,564 --> 00:30:38,824 -you +doing?" and-- "What in the heck -854 +840 00:30:38,824 --> 00:30:40,398 -do?" And then I'll -- there -- I -never forget this mom and her +you do?" And then, I'll-- +there-- I never forget this mom -855 +841 00:30:40,398 --> 00:30:41,972 -daughter. The +and her daughter. The -856 -00:30:41,973 --> 00:30:42,870 -daughter must've been like 17, +842 +00:30:41,973 --> 00:30:43,768 +daughter must've been, like, 17, 18 years old, right? And -857 -00:30:42,870 --> 00:30:43,767 -they're- - -858 +843 00:30:43,768 --> 00:30:45,563 -they're walking +they're- they're walking -859 +844 00:30:45,564 --> 00:30:47,273 -by and I'm out there just, -"Tickets," [Bekah chuckles] and, +by, and I'm out there just, +"Tickets?" [Bekah chuckles] And, -860 +845 00:30:47,273 --> 00:30:48,982 "You need a ticket?" And she's so -861 +846 00:30:48,983 --> 00:30:51,578 politely says, "No, thank you." Everyone just ignores it, and -862 +847 00:30:51,578 --> 00:30:54,173 she just, "No, thank you." And she looks at me, and then -863 +848 00:30:54,173 --> 00:30:57,324 looks down at my shirt, and I've got my University Western shirt -864 +849 00:30:57,324 --> 00:30:59,094 on [Bekah chuckles], and she -doesn't -- like, her face just +doesn't-- like, her face just -865 +850 00:30:59,094 --> 00:31:00,864 drops. And she looks at -866 -00:31:00,864 --> 00:31:02,341 +851 +00:31:00,864 --> 00:31:03,818 her daughter who's, like, also got a Western shirt- [Matt and -867 -00:31:02,341 --> 00:31:03,818 -Bekah - -868 +852 00:31:03,818 --> 00:31:06,772 -laugh] shirt on. It just had +Bekah laugh] shirt on. It just +had this, -869 +853 00:31:06,773 --> 00:31:08,843 -this, like sad look of horror as -they walk into this thing, you +like, sad look of horror as they +walk into this thing, you -870 +854 00:31:08,843 --> 00:31:10,913 know? Like, "This -871 +855 00:31:10,913 --> 00:31:13,353 is what my daughter is gonna -be." I've -- but anyways, that +be." I've-- but anyways, that -872 +856 00:31:13,353 --> 00:31:15,793 whole -873 +857 00:31:15,794 --> 00:31:19,213 experience has really upsetting. -And, so I'm like -- well, you +And so, I'm, like-- well, you -874 +858 00:31:19,213 --> 00:31:22,903 know, I learned that if you bought season tickets for, like, -875 +859 00:31:22,933 --> 00:31:26,233 all 90 games in a season, then -you would get like a 15% +you would get, like, a 15% -876 +860 00:31:26,233 --> 00:31:29,533 discount, -877 +861 00:31:29,534 --> 00:31:31,348 and then I could get the $20 ticket. And so, of course, you -878 +862 00:31:31,348 --> 00:31:33,162 know, -879 +863 00:31:33,294 --> 00:31:36,223 what- what's a reasonable thing to do is spend $9,000 on season -880 +864 00:31:36,223 --> 00:31:39,913 tickets. Yeah. So I basically took 2/3 of my savings in -881 +865 00:31:39,913 --> 00:31:42,864 my bank account, and I funded the money on season tickets. But -882 +866 00:31:42,864 --> 00:31:47,213 my theory was, I could sell them at face value to my friends. And -883 +867 00:31:47,213 --> 00:31:50,124 -since I got this like 15% +since I got this, like, 15% discount, that would more than -884 -00:31:50,124 --> 00:31:53,993 +868 +00:31:50,124 --> 00:31:52,058 make up for the gap. And- and -Pam and I could go to like three +Pam and I could go to, like, -885 +869 +00:31:52,058 --> 00:31:53,992 +three + +870 00:31:53,993 --> 00:31:57,114 -or four games for free, which is -all I really wanted. And -- but +or four games for free—which is +all I really wanted. And-- but -886 +871 00:31:57,114 --> 00:31:59,273 to do that, I needed to figure out how to price all these -887 +872 00:31:59,273 --> 00:32:01,710 -tickets. And so I wrote a +tickets. And so, I wrote a Electron desktop app that went -888 +873 00:32:01,710 --> 00:32:04,147 and scraped -889 +874 00:32:04,148 --> 00:32:06,759 all the data from bluejays.com, and scraped all the data from -890 +875 00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:08,813 StubHub, and I wrote an -algorithm to -- it like, you +algorithm to-- it, like-- you -891 +876 00:32:08,813 --> 00:32:10,867 know, if you scrape -892 +877 00:32:10,868 --> 00:32:12,848 StubHub one day, and you scrape the next day, you can figure out -893 +878 00:32:12,848 --> 00:32:14,648 what tickets are not there -anymore. And then you can figure +anymore. And then, you can -894 +879 00:32:14,648 --> 00:32:15,000 -out what's sold and for what -price- +figure out what's sold and for +what price- -895 +880 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:15,000 Bekah: Oh, wow. -896 +881 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,054 Matt: -since you knew [??] all -the things. And so I built a +the things. And so, I built a -897 +882 00:32:18,054 --> 00:32:20,108 really nice clean data set, and then I -898 +883 00:32:20,108 --> 00:32:23,558 trained an algorithm to price my tickets. And, you know, -899 +884 00:32:23,558 --> 00:32:26,104 again, I have this Electron app. And I just click a button, it'll -900 -00:32:26,104 --> 00:32:27,859 +885 +00:32:26,104 --> 00:32:29,614 price on my tickets, send an email to my friends, and- and -901 -00:32:27,859 --> 00:32:29,614 -then - -902 +886 00:32:29,614 --> 00:32:34,294 -people just earmarked what +then people just earmarked what tickets I want. And- and it -903 +887 00:32:34,294 --> 00:32:35,944 worked. And I did that for, you know, I've been doing that for -904 +888 00:32:35,944 --> 00:32:37,594 four, -905 +889 00:32:37,894 --> 00:32:39,484 -five years now, or six years, I -guess. This is -- there's like - -906 -00:32:39,484 --> 00:32:41,074 -two +five years now-- or six years, I +guess. This is-- there's, like, -907 -00:32:41,074 --> 00:32:43,564 -year gap that I, you know, +890 +00:32:39,484 --> 00:32:43,564 +two year gap that I, you know, decided not to do it because of -908 +891 00:32:43,564 --> 00:32:47,824 -COVID. And- and then that got +COVID. And- and then, that got the attention of IBM. I -909 +892 00:32:47,824 --> 00:32:49,339 mean, like, "Hey, that's a -really awesome project. And +really awesome project." And -910 +893 00:32:49,339 --> 00:32:50,854 that's what -911 +894 00:32:50,854 --> 00:32:52,296 -kind of opened that door." But -it was, you know [laughs], all +kind of opened that door. But it +was, you know [laughs], all -912 +895 00:32:52,296 --> 00:32:53,738 -these -- +these-- -913 +896 00:32:55,423 --> 00:32:58,258 -Bekah: That's -- when I- when I +Bekah: That's-- when I- when I was leaving education to come -914 -00:32:58,258 --> 00:33:01,093 -into - -915 -00:33:01,094 --> 00:33:03,883 -tech, I made money. I- I +897 +00:32:58,258 --> 00:33:03,883 +into tech, I made money. I- I remember the most money I made, -916 +898 00:33:03,883 --> 00:33:06,672 I bought and -917 +899 00:33:06,673 --> 00:33:09,183 resold Justin Bieber tickets on StubHub [Bekah and Matt laugh]. -918 +900 00:33:09,183 --> 00:33:11,693 And it was a lot of -919 +901 00:33:11,693 --> 00:33:15,683 research. Again, that would have been something that would have -920 +902 00:33:15,683 --> 00:33:17,784 been very useful to me during that time. -921 +903 00:33:18,189 --> 00:33:18,699 Matt: Oh, yeah. -922 +904 00:33:18,834 --> 00:33:20,739 Bekah: Wow, that's amazing. Justin Bieber also made me a lot -923 +905 00:33:20,739 --> 00:33:22,644 of money, so I -924 +906 00:33:22,644 --> 00:33:24,263 don't hate Justin Bieber. He's great [chuckles]. -925 +907 00:33:24,814 --> 00:33:27,334 Matt: He's Canadian, yeah. He's -from down the road there. The -- +from down the road there. The-- -926 +908 00:33:27,503 --> 00:33:28,054 Bekah: That's right [laughs]. -927 +909 00:33:28,594 --> 00:33:30,364 Matt: And we have a lot of mixed feelings about Justin Bieber. -928 +910 00:33:30,364 --> 00:33:33,079 But they're generally positive. He's- he's doing his best [Matt -929 +911 00:33:33,079 --> 00:33:35,794 and Bekah laugh]. I'm glad he did well by you, Bekah. -930 +912 00:33:35,794 --> 00:33:35,973 That's good. -931 +913 00:33:37,644 --> 00:33:40,261 -Bekah: Yeah. Wow. That -- there +Bekah: Yeah. Wow. That-- there ... I don't know what to say -932 +914 00:33:40,261 --> 00:33:42,878 other than that's -933 +915 00:33:42,878 --> 00:33:45,083 amazing. And oh, what I did -wanna say was, for -- we have a +wanna say was, for-- we have a -934 +916 00:33:45,083 --> 00:33:47,288 lot -935 +917 00:33:47,288 --> 00:33:50,679 of people who are listening to the podcast, who are coming into -936 +918 00:33:50,679 --> 00:33:52,434 tech, and I really love all these stories that you're -937 +919 00:33:52,434 --> 00:33:54,189 -telling, +telling -938 +920 00:33:54,189 --> 00:33:58,328 because all of the things that you made were useful to you, and -939 +921 00:33:58,778 --> 00:34:01,269 they made sense for you to make. -And so there's always that +And so, there's always that -940 +922 00:34:01,269 --> 00:34:02,423 question of like, "Well, what am supposed to be doing? And what -941 +923 00:34:02,423 --> 00:34:03,577 am -942 +924 00:34:03,578 --> 00:34:07,199 I supposed to be building?" And you- you don't have to build an -943 +925 00:34:07,199 --> 00:34:08,848 Electron app that analyzes what to price your Blue Jays tickets -944 +926 00:34:08,848 --> 00:34:10,497 -at [laughs], +at [laughs], but, -945 +927 00:34:10,978 --> 00:34:13,198 -but like find that thing that's +like, find that thing that's meaningful, and then go for -946 +928 00:34:13,198 --> 00:34:15,418 that, -947 +929 00:34:15,418 --> 00:34:17,233 and- and see where that takes you, and who notices you based -948 +930 00:34:17,233 --> 00:34:19,048 on that. -949 -00:34:20,148 --> 00:34:21,663 +931 +00:34:20,148 --> 00:34:23,178 Matt: Totally. And, you know, I -have a- a friend -- I've- I've - -950 -00:34:21,663 --> 00:34:23,178 -had +have a- a friend-- I've- I've -951 +932 00:34:23,179 --> 00:34:26,208 -these experiences where I, you -know, while I was at the +had these experiences where I-- +you know, while I was at the -952 +933 00:34:26,208 --> 00:34:27,513 -college, Bekah and Dan, I, you +college, Bekah and Dan. I-- you know, I connected with this -953 +934 00:34:27,513 --> 00:34:28,818 group -954 +935 00:34:28,818 --> 00:34:30,768 called Hacker Paradise that facilitates these remote sort of -955 +936 00:34:30,768 --> 00:34:32,718 work -956 +937 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,518 experiences. And they were, you -know, it turns out that was +know-- it turns out that was -957 +938 00:34:34,518 --> 00:34:36,317 really impactful -958 +939 00:34:36,349 --> 00:34:38,613 for me. And there's a- a- a woman I met there who is -959 +940 00:34:38,613 --> 00:34:40,877 amazing. -960 -00:34:40,878 --> 00:34:42,858 +941 +00:34:40,878 --> 00:34:45,079 Her name is Nicole Keller, and she has had this really, really -961 -00:34:42,858 --> 00:34:44,838 -cool - -962 +942 00:34:45,079 --> 00:34:47,028 -career path. But one of the +cool career path. But one of the things she was doing down in New -963 -00:34:47,028 --> 00:34:48,843 -York was, running coding classes -for kids. And the thing that I - -964 -00:34:48,843 --> 00:34:50,658 --- +943 +00:34:47,028 --> 00:34:50,658 +York was running coding classes +for kids. And the thing that I-- -965 +944 00:34:51,289 --> 00:34:52,893 -I brought to visit. Pam and I +I brought to visit-- Pam and I had gone to New York and, you -966 +945 00:34:52,893 --> 00:34:54,497 know, called up -967 +946 00:34:54,528 --> 00:34:55,458 -Nicole, and then like, "Hey," -and she just like, "Oh, yeah. +Nicole. And then like, "Hey." +And she just like, "Oh, yeah. -968 +947 00:34:55,458 --> 00:34:56,388 I'm working. -969 +948 00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:57,393 I'm doing this coding class for kids." And I'm like, "Can we -970 +949 00:34:57,393 --> 00:34:58,397 come see? -971 +950 00:34:58,889 --> 00:35:00,264 That sounds awesome." And we -went in, and it was like the +went in, and it was, like, the -972 +951 00:35:00,264 --> 00:35:01,639 attic of this -973 +952 00:35:01,639 --> 00:35:04,186 church. Like, you know, in- in, -like, mainland, New York. And we +like, mainland New York. And -974 +953 00:35:04,186 --> 00:35:06,733 --- so I'm +we-- so I'm -975 -00:35:06,793 --> 00:35:08,008 +954 +00:35:06,793 --> 00:35:09,223 just going to say mainland New -York. New York island. What is - -976 -00:35:08,008 --> 00:35:09,223 --- +York. New York island. What is-- -977 +955 00:35:09,224 --> 00:35:10,112 what are you guys call it [laughs]? What ... Manhattan! -978 +956 00:35:10,112 --> 00:35:11,000 That's it! -979 +957 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:12,000 Dan: Manhattan. Yes [Dan and Bekah laugh]. -980 +958 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,082 Matt: Yeah. Manhattan. And we -[laughs] -- and it was, but, +[laughs]-- and it was-- but, -981 +959 00:35:15,082 --> 00:35:18,164 like, the thing I -982 +960 00:35:18,164 --> 00:35:19,619 loved, Bekah, was that they -started the kids who were -- +started the kids who were-- -983 +961 00:35:19,619 --> 00:35:21,074 like, -984 +962 00:35:21,103 --> 00:35:22,018 they were just building static sites, and they use like a -985 +963 00:35:22,018 --> 00:35:22,933 -website +website builder. -986 +964 00:35:22,934 --> 00:35:25,603 -builder. They were like as young -as like eight, nine years old, +They were, like, as young as, +like, eight, nine years old, -987 +965 00:35:25,934 --> 00:35:28,043 -but they started them with -- +but they started them with-- they had gone to the UN's ... -988 +966 00:35:28,043 --> 00:35:30,152 and -989 +967 00:35:30,153 --> 00:35:32,074 -I forget what it's called, but -like, basically these are like +I forget what it's called, but, +like, basically these are, like, -990 +968 00:35:32,074 --> 00:35:33,604 our principles, and they had -asked the kids, like, "What's +asked the kids like, "What's -991 +969 00:35:33,604 --> 00:35:35,134 one thing -992 +970 00:35:35,134 --> 00:35:37,324 that you'd wanna affect change with, and let's build a website -993 +971 00:35:37,324 --> 00:35:39,094 to do that." Like, they- they -started -- they didn't start +started-- they didn't start -994 +972 00:35:39,094 --> 00:35:40,864 with -995 +973 00:35:40,923 --> 00:35:44,014 teaching JavaScript or teaching -HTML, and CSS. They started with +HTML, and CSS. They started -996 +974 00:35:44,014 --> 00:35:45,000 -like, what's the change you -wanna see in the world? +with, like, what's the change +you wanna see in the world? -997 +975 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:45,000 Dan: Mm-hmm. -998 +976 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,366 Matt: And how can we use these amazing tools to do this? And I -999 +977 00:35:48,366 --> 00:35:50,732 think that for people -1000 +978 00:35:50,733 --> 00:35:52,793 who are getting into tech, you -know, it's -- and there's a lot +know? It's-- and there's a lot -1001 +979 00:35:52,793 --> 00:35:54,853 of -1002 +980 00:35:54,853 --> 00:35:56,278 people that are coming in for many, many reasons into tech. -1003 +981 00:35:56,278 --> 00:35:57,703 And -1004 +982 00:35:57,704 --> 00:35:59,083 -especially now. It's like -- I +especially now. It's, like-- I think people are realizing that -1005 +983 00:35:59,083 --> 00:36:00,462 you can -1006 +984 00:36:00,463 --> 00:36:02,353 have this great lifestyle with it, which is wonderful. And -1007 +985 00:36:02,353 --> 00:36:03,628 that's a great reason to come into tech. There- there's these -1008 +986 00:36:03,628 --> 00:36:04,903 other -1009 +987 00:36:04,903 --> 00:36:07,844 things that are connected to it. I- I think one thing I'd love to -1010 +988 00:36:07,844 --> 00:36:10,618 -introduce to that sort of, you -know, thought processes, that +introduce to that, sort of, you +know, thought processes that -1011 +989 00:36:10,618 --> 00:36:13,392 this is a tremendously -1012 +990 00:36:13,393 --> 00:36:15,685 powerful thing. You can make computers do stuff -1013 +991 00:36:15,685 --> 00:36:17,977 automatically, and that's -1014 +992 00:36:18,398 --> 00:36:20,168 awesome. And it can really affect positive change on the -1015 +993 00:36:20,168 --> 00:36:21,938 world. And -1016 +994 00:36:21,938 --> 00:36:23,423 so, you know, as you're figuring out what your learning projects -1017 -00:36:23,423 --> 00:36:24,908 -are, +995 +00:36:23,423 --> 00:36:25,253 +are, think about what you-- +like, what you wanna change -1018 -00:36:25,809 --> 00:36:27,083 -think about what you -- like, -what you wanna change about the +996 +00:36:25,253 --> 00:36:27,083 +about the -1019 +997 00:36:27,083 --> 00:36:28,357 world. Like, -1020 +998 00:36:28,358 --> 00:36:30,038 -you- you know, can you make -something for your f- your +you- you know-- can you make +something for your-- f- your -1021 +999 00:36:30,038 --> 00:36:31,718 friend group? Can -1022 +1000 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,608 you make something for yourself? Can you automate something that -1023 +1001 00:36:33,608 --> 00:36:35,123 you're doing regularly? Can you make something that would be -1024 +1002 00:36:35,123 --> 00:36:36,638 just -1025 +1003 00:36:36,639 --> 00:36:38,484 really funny or cool, you know? Like- like, what do you wanna -1026 +1004 00:36:38,484 --> 00:36:40,329 make? -1027 +1005 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,748 -And- and I think if you start +And- and I think, if you start with that, like, that can be -1028 +1006 00:36:43,748 --> 00:36:45,976 really powerful. Because, you- you know, if- if you're -1029 +1007 00:36:45,976 --> 00:36:48,204 self-taught, one of -1030 +1008 00:36:48,204 --> 00:36:49,853 the biggest challenges you're -gonna face, and one of the +gonna face—and one of the -1031 +1009 00:36:49,853 --> 00:36:51,953 -biggest challenges I faced is +biggest challenges I faced—is how do you do it regularly? -1032 +1010 00:36:51,953 --> 00:36:54,053 There -1033 +1011 00:36:54,054 --> 00:36:56,199 would be weeks I, you know, couldn't bring myself to have -1034 +1012 00:36:56,199 --> 00:36:58,344 -the energy to code at +the energy to code at, -1035 +1013 00:36:58,344 --> 00:37:00,773 -like 9 o'clock at night, right? +like, 9 o'clock at night, right? And- and to continue that -1036 +1014 00:37:00,773 --> 00:37:03,983 -learning -- learning is so hard. +learning- learning is so hard. And it's such an emotionally -1037 +1015 00:37:03,983 --> 00:37:08,003 challenging journey too. But if you're connected to something -1038 +1016 00:37:08,003 --> 00:37:09,548 that you just wanna see out there, that- that's a deeper -1039 +1017 00:37:09,548 --> 00:37:11,093 level -1040 -00:37:11,094 --> 00:37:12,909 +1018 +00:37:11,094 --> 00:37:14,724 of motivation than, you know, than somebody on one side [??] -1041 -00:37:12,909 --> 00:37:14,724 -can be out - -1042 +1019 00:37:14,724 --> 00:37:17,304 -there. I think that's powerful. +can be out there. I think that's +powerful. -1043 +1020 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:18,000 Bekah: Yeah. -1044 +1021 00:37:18,119 --> 00:37:20,968 Dan: Yeah. I- I- I love that a- a lot. And, you know, and this -1045 +1022 00:37:20,968 --> 00:37:23,817 -is -- we actually -- we +is-- we actually-- we -1046 +1023 00:37:23,818 --> 00:37:26,789 just released Roger's episode. We talked to him a couple of -1047 -00:37:26,789 --> 00:37:29,073 +1024 +00:37:26,789 --> 00:37:31,357 weeks ago, and- and he- he said a lot of the same things. He- he -1048 -00:37:29,073 --> 00:37:31,357 -has - -1049 +1025 00:37:31,358 --> 00:37:33,128 -sort of a -- I mean, not the -exact path, but like +has sort of a-- I mean, not the +exact path, but, like, -1050 +1026 00:37:33,128 --> 00:37:34,898 -self-taught, +self-taught -1051 +1027 00:37:34,929 --> 00:37:36,399 and- and solving his own -problems, sort of thing, to +problems—sort of thing—to -1052 +1028 00:37:36,399 --> 00:37:37,869 learn -1053 +1029 00:37:37,958 --> 00:37:41,559 -coding. And so, I was -- I'm on +coding. And so, I was-- I'm on the same boat too. I think my -1054 +1030 00:37:41,559 --> 00:37:44,139 first website ... well, that -wasn't like a GeoCities site, it +wasn't, like, a GeoCities site, -1055 +1031 00:37:44,139 --> 00:37:46,719 -was like my -- +it was, like, my-- -1056 +1032 00:37:46,949 --> 00:37:49,119 -site for my band, right? It was -like in Flash or whatever. +site for my band, right? It was, +like, in Flash or whatever. -1057 +1033 00:37:49,119 --> 00:37:49,989 Matt: That's awesome. -1058 +1034 00:37:49,989 --> 00:37:53,453 -Dan: Just the -- yeah -[chuckles]. I mean, it's fine. +Dan: Just the-- yeah [chuckles]. +I mean, it's fine. -1059 +1035 00:37:53,453 --> 00:37:56,917 -But, the- the -- we -- +But, the- the-- we-- -1060 +1036 00:37:57,429 --> 00:37:58,929 -nowadays there's so many -learning, like, opportunities, +nowadays, there's so many +learning, like, opportunities -1061 +1037 00:37:58,929 --> 00:38:00,429 or the bootcamps, -1062 +1038 00:38:00,429 --> 00:38:02,768 and everything like that. And -there's so much -- so many +there's so much-- so many -1063 +1039 00:38:02,778 --> 00:38:04,393 different choices to- to make, so many different paths you can -1064 +1040 00:38:04,393 --> 00:38:06,008 take. And -1065 +1041 00:38:06,518 --> 00:38:08,348 -I -- it -- when- when I came up, -it's -- there was nothing, you +I-- it-- when- when I came up, +it's-- there was nothing, you -1066 +1042 00:38:08,348 --> 00:38:10,178 know, nothing -1067 +1043 00:38:10,179 --> 00:38:13,298 like that at all. There was some books that were out of date as -1068 +1044 00:38:13,298 --> 00:38:14,603 soon as they hit the shelves, -and, you know, and then the +and-- you know? And then the -1069 +1045 00:38:14,603 --> 00:38:15,908 internet, -1070 +1046 00:38:15,938 --> 00:38:18,173 -right, and blogs, and- and -things like that. But, I found +right? And blogs, and- and +things like that. But I found -1071 +1047 00:38:18,173 --> 00:38:20,408 success the -1072 +1048 00:38:20,409 --> 00:38:25,043 same- the same way it was. Doing -things that like were either +things that, like, were either -1073 +1049 00:38:25,043 --> 00:38:27,023 -fun, or, like, I wanted to fix, +fun or, like, I wanted to fix, right? And you were tell the -1074 +1050 00:38:27,023 --> 00:38:29,003 -story -- +story—w- when -1075 +1051 00:38:29,063 --> 00:38:32,123 -w- when you were talking about -the- the automated spreadsheet, +you were talking about the- the +automated spreadsheet—the -1076 +1052 00:38:32,123 --> 00:38:34,118 -the thing that, you know, there- -there -- I was thinking in my +thing that, you know-- there- +there-- I was thinking in -1077 +1053 00:38:34,118 --> 00:38:36,113 -head, this -- it's +my head, this-- it's -1078 +1054 00:38:36,114 --> 00:38:38,199 like a- a curse and a blessing of- of people who learn program- -1079 +1055 00:38:38,199 --> 00:38:40,284 like, -1080 +1056 00:38:40,284 --> 00:38:41,363 once you start down the path, like, once you've figured out -1081 +1057 00:38:41,363 --> 00:38:42,442 some -1082 +1058 00:38:42,443 --> 00:38:44,408 stuff is that you start seeing this everywhere. Like, "Oh my -1083 +1059 00:38:44,408 --> 00:38:46,373 -god, that -- +god, that-- -1084 +1060 00:38:46,403 --> 00:38:49,238 -I could make this easier -[chuckles]," right? And it's +I could make this easier," +[chuckles] right? And it's, -1085 +1061 00:38:49,238 --> 00:38:52,073 -like -- and it's- and it's -- -when you do it, +like-- and it's- and it's-- when +you do it, -1086 +1062 00:38:52,074 --> 00:38:53,903 -it's like a blessing, right? But -it's, obviously, I have this -- +it's, like, a blessing, right? +But it's, obviously-- I have -1087 +1063 00:38:53,903 --> 00:38:55,732 -for me +this-- for me, -1088 +1064 00:38:55,733 --> 00:38:57,473 -anyway, I don't -- maybe this -isn't for everybody. But it- +anyway, I don't-- maybe this +isn't for everybody. But it-- -1089 +1065 00:38:57,473 --> 00:38:59,213 -it's like [chuckles], I start to -think about it +it's, like [chuckles], I start +to think about it -1090 +1066 00:38:59,244 --> 00:39:00,923 all the time, for everything. And sometimes it gets out of -1091 +1067 00:39:00,923 --> 00:39:02,602 hand, -1092 +1068 00:39:02,634 --> 00:39:04,419 sometimes [laughs] I'm automating things that don't -1093 +1069 00:39:04,419 --> 00:39:06,204 actually take me that -1094 -00:39:06,204 --> 00:39:07,619 -long, probably. It -- probably +1070 +00:39:06,204 --> 00:39:09,034 +long, probably. It-- probably the work is taking longer than -1095 -00:39:07,619 --> 00:39:09,034 -it - -1096 +1071 00:39:09,414 --> 00:39:14,784 -did, but, you know, it's- it's -... I don't know. It's such +it did, but, you know, it's- +it's ... I don't know. It's such -1097 +1072 00:39:14,784 --> 00:39:15,879 -a -- once you get into that -habit of thinking that way, and +a-- once you get into that habit +of thinking that way, and, -1098 +1073 00:39:15,879 --> 00:39:16,974 -like -- +like-- -1099 +1074 00:39:17,043 --> 00:39:19,663 -and the making things, it's -- -it can be such -- it can- it can +and the making things, it's-- it +can be such-- it can- it can -1100 +1075 00:39:19,663 --> 00:39:22,283 -improve your life. And like you -say, +improve your life. And—like you +say—you -1101 +1076 00:39:22,284 --> 00:39:24,939 -you can improve- you can improve -little annoying things, or +can improve- you can improve +little annoying things or -1102 +1077 00:39:24,939 --> 00:39:27,594 -little things, you know, like +little things, you know, like, -1103 +1078 00:39:27,594 --> 00:39:29,004 small things with your family, or your friends, or, you know, -1104 +1079 00:39:29,004 --> 00:39:30,414 large -1105 +1080 00:39:30,443 --> 00:39:31,748 -changes too. And it- it's- it's +changes too. And it-- it's- it's cool. Well, there's so many -1106 +1081 00:39:31,748 --> 00:39:33,053 apps, so -1107 +1082 00:39:33,054 --> 00:39:33,864 many possibilities out there. -1108 +1083 00:39:34,528 --> 00:39:36,659 Matt: I mean, are there- are there any other projects that -1109 +1084 00:39:36,659 --> 00:39:40,183 you've done, Dan, that are, you -know, particularly redundant, or +know, particularly redundant or -1110 +1085 00:39:40,183 --> 00:39:43,707 -[chuckles] maybe like, not the +[chuckles] maybe, like, not the -1111 +1086 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:46,124 most, you know, effective use of -time, or any -- do you +time? Or any-- do you -1112 +1087 00:39:46,124 --> 00:39:47,009 -[unintelligible] -- +[unintelligible]-- -1113 +1088 00:39:47,039 --> 00:39:48,133 -Dan: Oh, well, I -- how many +Dan: Oh, well, I-- how many color lights case here behind -1114 +1089 00:39:48,133 --> 00:39:49,227 -me? [Dan chuckles, Bekah -laughs]. +me? [Dan chuckles, Bekah laughs] -1115 +1090 00:39:50,429 --> 00:39:51,478 Matt: [Laughs] Quite a few actually. -1116 +1091 00:39:51,958 --> 00:39:54,013 Dan: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Back in- -back in -- I was -- every time +back in-- I was-- every time -1117 +1092 00:39:54,013 --> 00:39:56,068 -we start -- like, there was a -two months or +we start-- like, there was a two +months or -1118 +1093 00:39:56,068 --> 00:39:57,598 -something where I -- so these -are all like hue light bulbs, +something where I-- so, these +are all, like, hue light bulbs. -1119 +1094 00:39:57,598 --> 00:39:59,128 -and there's- +And there's- -1120 +1095 00:39:59,188 --> 00:40:01,278 there's one you can't see too. -And I've spent so much time -- +And I've spent so much time-- -1121 +1096 00:40:01,278 --> 00:40:03,368 cuz I -1122 +1097 00:40:03,369 --> 00:40:04,704 -hated the lights in here. I had --- before these, I just had, +hated the lights in here. I +had-- before these, I just had, -1123 +1098 00:40:04,704 --> 00:40:06,039 like, -1124 +1099 00:40:06,338 --> 00:40:10,148 lights. Like, lamps. Everywhere. And never could get the lighting -1125 +1100 00:40:10,148 --> 00:40:11,798 -right. And then I got these, you -know, so I have -- now I got +right. And then, I got these, +you know-- so, I have-- now I -1126 +1101 00:40:11,798 --> 00:40:13,448 -these +got these -1127 +1102 00:40:13,449 --> 00:40:15,849 hue, I'm like, "This is the perfect solution. Hue bulbs. Cuz -1128 +1103 00:40:15,849 --> 00:40:17,739 you can connect, you know, you can connect them with your phone -1129 -00:40:17,739 --> 00:40:19,794 +1104 +00:40:17,739 --> 00:40:21,849 or your, you know, there's probably a- a web, or a Mac app, -1130 -00:40:19,794 --> 00:40:21,849 -and - -1131 +1105 00:40:21,909 --> 00:40:23,709 -all that stuff." A-a-and so I -replaced all of [chuckles] the +and all that stuff." A-a-and so +I replaced all of [chuckles] the -1132 +1106 00:40:23,709 --> 00:40:25,509 bulbs with these -1133 +1107 00:40:25,509 --> 00:40:27,024 things. And now- now there's too -many op- like, now it's like +many op- like, now, it's, like-- -1134 +1108 00:40:27,024 --> 00:40:28,539 [Dan and Bekah chuckle] -1135 +1109 00:40:28,599 --> 00:40:29,948 there's too much to do. Like, I -can -- I have too many options. +can-- I have too many options. -1136 +1110 00:40:29,948 --> 00:40:31,297 There's too many -1137 +1111 00:40:31,298 --> 00:40:33,083 colors, too many, like, ways. I can turn them up and down. And -1138 +1112 00:40:33,083 --> 00:40:34,868 also, -1139 +1113 00:40:35,018 --> 00:40:37,006 -I -- and I kinda -- exactly how -I wanted it. But then, it was +I-- and I kinda-- exactly how I +wanted it. But then, it was, -1140 +1114 00:40:37,006 --> 00:40:38,994 -like, okay. Well, +like-- okay. Well, -1141 +1115 00:40:38,994 --> 00:40:39,916 it's still a pain for me to, -like, open my phone, and like, - -1142 -00:40:39,916 --> 00:40:40,838 -to push +like, open my phone, and, like, -1143 -00:40:40,839 --> 00:40:42,684 -the +1116 +00:40:39,916 --> 00:40:42,684 +to push the -1144 +1117 00:40:42,684 --> 00:40:44,678 button, you know [chuckles]? So -it's like, time to these -- +it's, like, time to these-- -1145 +1118 00:40:44,678 --> 00:40:46,672 like, time for automations. I -1146 +1119 00:40:46,673 --> 00:40:48,428 -finally bought -- oh, you can't -see it, but I bought -- so, hue +finally bought-- oh, you can't +see it, but I bought-- so, hue -1147 +1120 00:40:48,428 --> 00:40:50,183 has -1148 +1121 00:40:50,184 --> 00:40:52,073 -this, like a button that you -- -it is just like a little- a +this, like, a button that you-- +it is just, like, a little- a -1149 +1122 00:40:52,073 --> 00:40:53,962 little -1150 +1123 00:40:53,963 --> 00:40:56,393 click button. And you can put it on the wall, or you can put it -1151 -00:40:56,393 --> 00:40:57,833 +1124 +00:40:56,393 --> 00:40:59,273 wherever, and you can set that -to do whatever you want, when - -1152 -00:40:57,833 --> 00:40:59,273 -you +to do whatever you want when -1153 +1125 00:40:59,273 --> 00:41:00,000 -click it different ways +you click it different ways [laughs]. -1154 +1126 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:00,000 Matt: Cool. -1155 +1127 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,832 -Dan: So I have that on my wall -now. So I -- yeah. I- I spent +Dan: So, I have that on my wall +now. So, I-- yeah. I- I spent, -1156 +1128 00:41:04,832 --> 00:41:08,664 -like five days of- of being +like, five days of- of being happy. I'm- I'm like, -1157 +1129 00:41:08,664 --> 00:41:09,998 "Huh? This is- this is it. I -have it." And like, just this +have it." And, like, just this -1158 +1130 00:41:09,998 --> 00:41:11,332 morning, I -1159 +1131 00:41:11,333 --> 00:41:13,338 sat down, and I'm like, "I should change the colors of -1160 +1132 00:41:13,338 --> 00:41:15,343 these lights- these lights [all -laughs] right now, but --" +laughs] right now, but--" -1161 +1133 00:41:17,454 --> 00:41:22,103 -So it was -- I sometimes -struggle with being satisfied +So it was-- I sometimes struggle +with being satisfied -1162 +1134 00:41:22,103 --> 00:41:24,068 -with- with things. But, I still --- it is -- it's also fun - -1163 -00:41:24,068 --> 00:41:26,033 -though, you +with- with things. But I still-- +it is-- it's also fun -1164 -00:41:26,034 --> 00:41:26,213 -know [all laughs]? +1135 +00:41:24,068 --> 00:41:26,213 +though, you know? [All laughs] -1165 +1136 00:41:28,364 --> 00:41:30,659 -Matt: Man, it -- the -- Bekah, -you, like, you have a -- and, +Matt: Man, it-- the-- Bekah, +you-- like, you have a-- and, -1166 +1137 00:41:30,659 --> 00:41:32,954 you know, Virtual Coffee, I think -1167 +1138 00:41:32,954 --> 00:41:35,864 it would be totally fair to call -that like a- like an amazing +that, like, a-- like, an amazing -1168 +1139 00:41:35,864 --> 00:41:37,844 project that both of you have created. It's the community I -1169 +1140 00:41:37,844 --> 00:41:40,048 love and love being part of. And -so, like, does that -- is it - -1170 -00:41:40,048 --> 00:41:42,252 -sort +so, like, does that-- is it -1171 -00:41:42,253 --> 00:41:43,503 -of -- the same sort of thing +1141 +00:41:40,048 --> 00:41:43,503 +sort of-- the same sort of thing that has happened with you, -1172 +1142 00:41:43,503 --> 00:41:44,753 Bekah, -1173 +1143 00:41:44,753 --> 00:41:45,948 where you've had these things that you've taken on, and you've -1174 +1144 00:41:45,948 --> 00:41:47,143 made, and -1175 +1145 00:41:47,954 --> 00:41:50,324 resulted in these learning experiences? And I'd imagine -1176 +1146 00:41:50,324 --> 00:41:51,373 Virtual Coffee has been an amazing learning experience. -1177 +1147 00:41:51,373 --> 00:41:52,422 Even for yourself [??]. -1178 +1148 00:41:52,628 --> 00:41:54,443 Bekah: Oh, for sure. It's been a learning experience, and it's -1179 +1149 00:41:54,443 --> 00:41:56,258 been -1180 +1150 00:41:56,259 --> 00:42:00,489 great. I feel like I'm always dropping things. We have the -1181 +1151 00:42:00,489 --> 00:42:03,054 -maintainers channel. And so you --- there- there will be times +maintainers channel. And so, +you-- there- there will be -1182 +1152 00:42:03,054 --> 00:42:05,619 -where +times where -1183 +1153 00:42:05,619 --> 00:42:09,009 I just, like, drop a bunch of different ideas. Like, these are -1184 +1154 00:42:09,009 --> 00:42:10,598 all things that I think we should be doing. And a lot of -1185 +1155 00:42:10,598 --> 00:42:12,187 times, -1186 +1156 00:42:12,188 --> 00:42:14,723 like, I'm writing out all of the processes, or what this means, -1187 +1157 00:42:14,723 --> 00:42:17,258 or what -1188 +1158 00:42:17,259 --> 00:42:20,829 support we need. And then, obviously, we don't do all of -1189 +1159 00:42:20,829 --> 00:42:23,109 those because there's only 24 hours in a day [laughs], and -1190 +1160 00:42:23,109 --> 00:42:25,389 it's just not -1191 +1161 00:42:25,389 --> 00:42:27,113 -possible. But -- and that was +possible. But-- and that was, like, I- I got four hours of -1192 +1162 00:42:27,113 --> 00:42:28,837 sleep last -1193 +1163 00:42:28,838 --> 00:42:30,848 night. And it was because last night before bed, I- I was -1194 +1164 00:42:30,848 --> 00:42:32,858 having this -1195 +1165 00:42:32,858 --> 00:42:35,243 idea about a tech summit that I -wanted to be doing. And I was +wanted to be doing. And I was, -1196 +1166 00:42:35,243 --> 00:42:37,628 -like +like, -1197 -00:42:37,659 --> 00:42:39,788 +1167 +00:42:37,659 --> 00:42:41,917 messaging Kirk and Nick Taylor about that. Like, "Hey, is this -1198 -00:42:39,788 --> 00:42:41,917 -a- +1168 +00:42:41,918 --> 00:42:43,748 +a-- is this a idea that's too +out there? Or is this something -1199 -00:42:41,918 --> 00:42:45,579 -is this a idea that's too out -there? Or is this something that +1169 +00:42:43,748 --> 00:42:45,578 +that -1200 +1170 00:42:45,579 --> 00:42:48,461 maybe is useful, or good, or worth, like, talking about?" And -1201 +1171 00:42:48,461 --> 00:42:51,343 -then I fell +then, I fell -1202 +1172 00:42:51,344 --> 00:42:53,008 -asleep. And then, it was like +asleep. And then, it was, like, three in the morning, I woke up, -1203 +1173 00:42:53,008 --> 00:42:54,672 and my -1204 +1174 00:42:54,673 --> 00:42:55,828 brain was like, "All right. Yeah. Let's- let's figure this -1205 +1175 00:42:55,828 --> 00:42:56,983 out -1206 +1176 00:42:56,983 --> 00:43:00,568 -right now [laughs]," like, no. +right now [laughs]." Like, "No." But I feel like, you know, it's -1207 +1177 00:43:00,568 --> 00:43:04,153 a lot of -1208 +1178 00:43:04,153 --> 00:43:06,148 that, but learning has been really great. And now I feel -1209 +1179 00:43:06,148 --> 00:43:08,143 like -1210 +1180 00:43:08,143 --> 00:43:09,973 -I'm going down this -- I- I -don't like Notion, I have not +I'm going down this-- I- I don't +like Notion. I have not -1211 +1181 00:43:09,973 --> 00:43:11,803 liked it -1212 +1182 00:43:11,804 --> 00:43:14,241 -anytime I've used it, but like +anytime I've used it, but, like, my methods of storing all of -1213 +1183 00:43:14,241 --> 00:43:16,678 these -1214 +1184 00:43:16,679 --> 00:43:21,628 ideas and writing about them is -just unsatisfactory now. And so +just unsatisfactory now. And so, -1215 +1185 00:43:21,628 --> 00:43:23,488 I've started going down the Notion rabbit hole of like, -1216 +1186 00:43:23,488 --> 00:43:25,348 "This -1217 +1187 00:43:25,349 --> 00:43:28,349 is- this is what I need to do. And I need to automate these -1218 +1188 00:43:28,349 --> 00:43:30,899 -things to my Notion, because I +things to my Notion because I know that I can." So, I feel -1219 +1189 00:43:30,899 --> 00:43:33,449 like you -1220 +1190 00:43:33,449 --> 00:43:35,863 -could probably automate like hi- -what your lights look like +could probably automate, like, +hi- what your lights look like -1221 +1191 00:43:35,863 --> 00:43:38,277 through Notion, -1222 +1192 00:43:38,518 --> 00:43:41,818 right? If you just select what mood you're in, and then it will -1223 +1193 00:43:41,818 --> 00:43:43,406 automatically set your lights. So, Dan, you should try that -1224 +1194 00:43:43,406 --> 00:43:44,994 [chuckles]. -1225 +1195 00:43:45,849 --> 00:43:46,839 Dan: Yeah. Last time I messed -with Notion, I had like a +with Notion, I had, like, a -1226 +1196 00:43:46,839 --> 00:43:47,829 nervous -1227 +1197 00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:49,208 breakdown trying to get everything exactly like -1228 +1198 00:43:49,208 --> 00:43:50,587 -[chuckles] -- +[chuckles]-- -1229 +1199 00:43:51,224 --> 00:43:52,603 Bekah: Kirk is making me a -template. So [chuckles] -- +template. So [chuckles]-- -1230 +1200 00:43:53,753 --> 00:43:55,583 Dan: Yeah. That's the- that's the issue I have with Notion is- -1231 +1201 00:43:55,583 --> 00:43:57,413 -is -- it's +is-- it's -1232 +1202 00:43:57,414 --> 00:43:59,664 a great product and it's a very, very cool initiative. There's -1233 -00:43:59,664 --> 00:44:02,423 +1203 +00:43:59,664 --> 00:44:01,043 just too many possibilities, and -it's too pop- it's like possible +it's too pop- it's, like, -1234 +1204 +00:44:01,043 --> 00:44:02,422 +possible + +1205 00:44:02,423 --> 00:44:04,838 -to get it -- it seems possible -to get it perfect [chuckles]. +to get it-- it seems possible to +get it perfect [chuckles]. -1235 +1206 00:44:04,838 --> 00:44:07,253 -And it's like, +And it's, like-- -1236 +1207 00:44:07,253 --> 00:44:09,143 when that- when that, like, perfect thing gets in my head, -1237 -00:44:09,143 --> 00:44:11,033 -it's hard to -- - -1238 -00:44:11,094 --> 00:44:12,233 -sometimes hard to let it go. So -[chuckles] -- +1208 +00:44:09,143 --> 00:44:12,233 +it's hard to-- sometimes hard to +let it go. So [chuckles]-- -1239 +1209 00:44:13,409 --> 00:44:14,849 Matt: Yeah. We- we've spent a -lot of time in Notion too. We, +lot of time in Notion too. We-- -1240 +1210 00:44:14,849 --> 00:44:16,289 you -1241 -00:44:16,289 --> 00:44:17,758 +1211 +00:44:16,289 --> 00:44:19,227 know, it's ... things that are highly customizable are often -1242 -00:44:17,758 --> 00:44:19,227 -not the - -1243 +1212 00:44:19,228 --> 00:44:20,369 -best tools, right? Like, it's, +not the best tools, right? Like, +it's-- -1244 -00:44:21,208 --> 00:44:23,248 +1213 +00:44:21,208 --> 00:44:23,668 you know, I appreciate software -that has opinion - -1245 -00:44:23,309 --> 00:44:23,668 -sometimes. +that has opinion sometimes. -1246 +1214 00:44:23,668 --> 00:44:25,000 -Bekah: I say that -- +Bekah: I say that-- -1247 +1215 00:44:23,668 --> 00:44:25,000 -Dan: Yeah. My- my -- oh, go +Dan: Yeah. My- my-- oh, go ahead, Bekah. -1248 +1216 00:44:26,739 --> 00:44:29,588 -Bekah: It -- my -- right now, -I've just collected way too many +Bekah: It-- my-- right now, I've +just collected way too many -1249 +1217 00:44:29,588 --> 00:44:33,969 different ways of doing things. Like, you know, I've got all -1250 +1218 00:44:33,969 --> 00:44:36,383 these apps to help me with planning or note taking or, -1251 +1219 00:44:36,383 --> 00:44:38,797 you -1252 +1220 00:44:38,798 --> 00:44:40,628 know, whatev- there's just way -too many of them. So I feel like +too many of them. So, I feel -1253 +1221 00:44:40,628 --> 00:44:42,458 -I'm +like I'm -1254 +1222 00:44:42,458 --> 00:44:45,848 just very ... all or nothing kind of person. And so -1255 +1223 00:44:45,848 --> 00:44:49,238 [chuckles] I- I can't have all of -1256 +1224 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,653 -these. Now I just need one +these. Now, I just need one thing, and Notion is the- the -1257 +1225 00:44:52,653 --> 00:44:56,067 one thing to rule them all up, -1258 +1226 00:44:56,068 --> 00:44:56,619 apparently. -1259 +1227 00:44:58,353 --> 00:44:59,778 Matt: [Chuckles] And so then, -you know, in -- circling back, +you know, in-- circling back, -1260 +1228 00:44:59,778 --> 00:45:01,203 like, Bekah, you -1261 +1229 00:45:01,204 --> 00:45:03,363 have this awesome job. You're an amazing community manager. Did -1262 +1230 00:45:03,363 --> 00:45:05,522 you have -1263 +1231 00:45:05,523 --> 00:45:06,963 those skills before you started the Virtual Coffee or was that -1264 +1232 00:45:06,963 --> 00:45:08,403 something that you -1265 +1233 00:45:09,273 --> 00:45:12,364 learned and kind of just figured out, go into the process? -1266 +1234 00:45:13,193 --> 00:45:15,113 Bekah: When I- when I was in undergrad, I- I graduated in -1267 +1235 00:45:15,113 --> 00:45:17,033 three -1268 +1236 00:45:17,034 --> 00:45:19,764 years. So I took a bunch of credits, but I was also in 10 -1269 +1237 00:45:19,764 --> 00:45:22,328 -clubs, and I was an officer in -like five of them [chuckles]. +clubs, and I was an officer in, +like, five of them [chuckles]. -1270 +1238 00:45:22,328 --> 00:45:24,892 So, I- I feel like -1271 +1239 00:45:25,523 --> 00:45:29,664 it's been a lifelong journey of community building, and many -1272 +1240 00:45:29,664 --> 00:45:32,353 points where I've tried to -reject that. Like, please let me +reject that. Like, "Please let -1273 +1241 00:45:32,353 --> 00:45:35,042 -just be in +me just be in -1274 -00:45:35,043 --> 00:45:36,948 +1242 +00:45:35,043 --> 00:45:38,853 a hole by myself [chuckles] and -not talk to people. But I keep - -1275 -00:45:36,948 --> 00:45:38,853 -coming +not talk to people." But I keep -1276 +1243 00:45:38,853 --> 00:45:40,233 -back to it. I feel like I +coming back to it. I feel like I finally hit the point where I'm -1277 +1244 00:45:40,233 --> 00:45:41,613 like, "Okay," -1278 +1245 00:45:42,454 --> 00:45:45,153 -like, "This- this is a skill set +like, "this- this is a skill set I should utilize it and- and -1279 +1246 00:45:45,153 --> 00:45:47,852 figure out -1280 +1247 00:45:47,853 --> 00:45:51,603 how I can best do that thing." So, yeah. It's- it's ... I guess -1281 -00:45:51,603 --> 00:45:55,353 -part of - -1282 -00:45:55,353 --> 00:45:55,744 -me. +1248 +00:45:51,603 --> 00:45:55,744 +part of me. -1283 +1249 00:45:57,074 --> 00:45:58,653 -Matt: That's really cool. I, you -know, I think that, like, one of +Matt: That's really cool. I-- +you know, I think that, like, -1284 +1250 00:45:58,653 --> 00:46:00,232 -the +one of the -1285 +1251 00:46:00,233 --> 00:46:05,143 -things that, you know, I was +things that, you know-- I was hard to figure out, and I'm- I'm -1286 +1252 00:46:05,153 --> 00:46:07,373 -hope I think it's okay. I'm kind -of like left turning the +hope-- I think it's okay. I'm +kind of like left turning the -1287 +1253 00:46:07,373 --> 00:46:08,303 conversation a little bit. One of the things that was really -1288 +1254 00:46:08,303 --> 00:46:09,233 hard -1289 +1255 00:46:09,233 --> 00:46:11,423 to figure out in- in running a -business is like, how do you +business is, like, how do you -1290 +1256 00:46:11,423 --> 00:46:14,873 hire? And you need to figure it all out from scratch. Because, -1291 +1257 00:46:14,873 --> 00:46:16,238 like, we had hired a bunch of people that make stuff at IBM, -1292 +1258 00:46:16,238 --> 00:46:17,603 but -1293 +1259 00:46:17,603 --> 00:46:19,554 it was all a very catered -experience. Like, we had -- we +experience. Like, we had-- we -1294 +1260 00:46:19,554 --> 00:46:22,028 outsourced all of the hard out of front work [??]. And we got -1295 +1261 00:46:22,028 --> 00:46:24,502 -these, like, just like 50 +these, like, just, like, 50 -1296 +1262 00:46:24,503 --> 00:46:25,763 incredible candidates, and we would divide them up on our -1297 +1263 00:46:25,763 --> 00:46:27,023 team, -1298 +1264 00:46:27,023 --> 00:46:27,998 and figure out who's gonna do round one, round two, round -1299 +1265 00:46:27,998 --> 00:46:28,973 three, -1300 +1266 00:46:29,063 --> 00:46:32,873 -right? And that like, +right? And that-- like, interviewing is easy, but hiring -1301 +1267 00:46:32,873 --> 00:46:35,273 is hard. And hiring is all that other stuff. It's like finding -1302 +1268 00:46:35,273 --> 00:46:37,793 people and evaluating them. And- and then, you know, you read -1303 +1269 00:46:37,793 --> 00:46:38,828 about all the bad things that happen to hiring process, and -1304 +1270 00:46:38,828 --> 00:46:39,863 you -1305 +1271 00:46:39,864 --> 00:46:41,514 don't wanna do those, and you wanna do the good things, and -1306 +1272 00:46:41,514 --> 00:46:43,284 you wanna get the right person, and then the right people. The -1307 +1273 00:46:43,284 --> 00:46:45,054 thing -1308 +1274 00:46:45,054 --> 00:46:46,683 that has always stand out to me is personal projects. And it's- -1309 +1275 00:46:46,683 --> 00:46:48,312 it's -1310 +1276 00:46:48,414 --> 00:46:49,613 probably not surprising given the history I just described, -1311 +1277 00:46:49,613 --> 00:46:50,812 right? -1312 +1278 00:46:50,844 --> 00:46:52,358 -Like, I -- like, I value them a +Like, I-- like, I value them a lot. But I think that when -1313 +1279 00:46:52,358 --> 00:46:53,872 somebody -1314 +1280 00:46:53,873 --> 00:46:55,628 comes in, and they say, "Hey, I made this thing, and here is why -1315 +1281 00:46:55,628 --> 00:46:57,383 I made it, -1316 +1282 00:46:57,384 --> 00:46:59,169 -and here's -- like, how it's +and here's-- like, how it's important for, like, small -1317 +1283 00:46:59,169 --> 00:47:00,954 businesses, -1318 +1284 00:47:00,954 --> 00:47:03,691 especially," that is so helpful -because it's like, the person's +because it's, like, the person's -1319 +1285 00:47:03,691 --> 00:47:06,428 thinking -1320 +1286 00:47:06,429 --> 00:47:08,288 about a need on the other side -of what they're doing. And like, +of what they're doing. And, -1321 +1287 00:47:08,288 --> 00:47:10,147 -you +like, you -1322 -00:47:10,148 --> 00:47:11,108 -know, it- it's -- we don't have, +1288 +00:47:10,148 --> 00:47:12,068 +know-- it- it's-- we don't have, like, tickets where we're -1323 -00:47:11,108 --> 00:47:12,068 -working - -1324 +1289 00:47:12,068 --> 00:47:13,988 -through. +working through. -1325 +1290 00:47:13,989 --> 00:47:17,079 -We're too small. We, you know, +We're too small. We, you know-- we don't have a ton of process -1326 +1291 00:47:17,079 --> 00:47:18,893 around things. But, like, when people come in, and then I -1327 +1292 00:47:18,893 --> 00:47:20,707 imagine this is the -1328 +1293 00:47:20,708 --> 00:47:22,598 case for you, Bekah, and you do this amazing community -1329 +1294 00:47:22,598 --> 00:47:24,488 management, and -1330 +1295 00:47:24,489 --> 00:47:26,364 all this other stuff. And you have Virtual Coffee as this -1331 +1296 00:47:26,364 --> 00:47:28,239 incredible example -1332 +1297 00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,006 of you doing that, in tech, at -scale. And- and I just -- that's +scale. And- and I just-- that's -1333 +1298 00:47:31,006 --> 00:47:33,773 awesome. -1334 +1299 00:47:34,324 --> 00:47:36,753 -Bekah: Yeah. I -- and that's -what led to the job that I have +Bekah: Yeah. I-- and that's what +led to the job that I have -1335 +1300 00:47:36,753 --> 00:47:41,193 right now. I wasn't looking for work. My team lead reached -1336 +1301 00:47:41,193 --> 00:47:43,143 -out to me, and it was based on +out to me and it was based on Virtual Coffee. And somebody -1337 +1302 00:47:43,143 --> 00:47:45,093 else -1338 +1303 00:47:45,094 --> 00:47:48,543 -had — who I'd interviewed with, +had—who I'd interviewed with, who had reached out to me -1339 -00:47:48,903 --> 00:47:53,333 +1304 +00:47:48,903 --> 00:47:51,118 last summer ... because they -knew about Virtual Coffee — +knew about Virtual -1340 +1305 +00:47:51,118 --> 00:47:53,333 +Coffee—recommended + +1306 00:47:53,364 --> 00:47:55,689 -recommended me. Like, I was on -the top of the -- their list. +me. Like, I was on the top of +the-- their list. -1341 +1307 00:47:55,689 --> 00:47:58,014 And so, once he -1342 +1308 00:47:58,014 --> 00:48:01,494 started looking into Virtual -Coffee — I think he watched +Coffee—I think he watched -1343 -00:48:01,523 --> 00:48:03,083 +1309 +00:48:01,523 --> 00:48:04,643 some of our Lunch and Learn -videos and read blog posts — - -1344 -00:48:03,083 --> 00:48:04,643 -like, +videos and read blog posts—like, -1345 +1310 00:48:04,643 --> 00:48:10,134 -there- there is a -- my -community building resume is out +there- there is a-- my community +building resume is out -1346 -00:48:10,134 --> 00:48:15,474 +1311 +00:48:10,134 --> 00:48:12,804 there because of all of the -things that we do. And so, yeah. +things that we do. And so-- -1347 +1312 +00:48:12,804 --> 00:48:15,474 +yeah. + +1313 00:48:15,543 --> 00:48:17,158 It is. It is like a project. I hadn't really thought about it -1348 +1314 00:48:17,158 --> 00:48:18,773 that way, -1349 -00:48:18,773 --> 00:48:20,978 +1315 +00:48:18,773 --> 00:48:23,183 but it is this- this living resume of all of the things that -1350 -00:48:20,978 --> 00:48:23,183 -I've - -1351 +1316 00:48:23,184 --> 00:48:23,934 -been working on. +I've been working on. -1352 +1317 00:48:24,923 --> 00:48:26,453 -Matt: Totally. And- and Dan, +Matt: Totally. And- and, Dan, watch out. Cuz, like, Phillips -1353 +1318 00:48:26,453 --> 00:48:27,983 is gonna come -1354 +1319 00:48:27,983 --> 00:48:29,693 knocking, and gonna say, "Hey, [Dan and Bekah laugh] I heard -1355 +1320 00:48:29,693 --> 00:48:31,403 all these things you're doing with our light bulbs [laughs]." -1356 +1321 00:48:33,134 --> 00:48:34,123 Dan: Yeah. -1357 +1322 00:48:34,793 --> 00:48:35,423 Matt: I'm, like, the CTO. [Unintelligible] you [laughs]. -1358 +1323 00:48:35,594 --> 00:48:37,294 Dan: And they gonna come, and say, "Hey, buy this product -1359 +1324 00:48:37,294 --> 00:48:38,994 [laughs]. This -1360 +1325 00:48:38,994 --> 00:48:41,094 product will finally solve all of your problems." -1361 +1326 00:48:42,548 --> 00:48:43,613 Matt: [Chuckles] Oh my god. -Yeah. I hope all the -- our +Yeah. I hope all the-- our -1362 +1327 00:48:43,613 --> 00:48:44,678 conversation in this podcast -1363 +1328 00:48:44,679 --> 00:48:47,378 has an index cuz it'll go to these Google searches. I mean, -1364 +1329 00:48:47,378 --> 00:48:49,539 this is gonna be all Philips hue light bulbs. -1365 +1330 00:48:49,539 --> 00:48:50,543 Dan: [Laughs] Right. -1366 +1331 00:48:50,543 --> 00:48:52,574 Bekah: But we are open for -sponsorships, so -- +sponsorships, so-- -1367 +1332 00:48:54,423 --> 00:48:54,844 Dan: Yeah. That's right. -1368 +1333 00:48:55,599 --> 00:48:57,113 Matt: [Unintelligible] Oh my -gosh. Yeah. It's -- that's +gosh. Yeah. It's-- that's -1369 +1334 00:48:57,113 --> 00:48:58,627 really interesting. I -1370 +1335 00:48:58,628 --> 00:49:01,208 -think the -- those personal +think the-- those personal projects, they- they really -1371 +1336 00:49:01,208 --> 00:49:03,788 standout. And, you -1372 +1337 00:49:03,789 --> 00:49:06,219 know, and certainly there's merit if you're going to a -1373 +1338 00:49:06,219 --> 00:49:06,908 bootcamp, and going through -that, you -- like, you wanna - -1374 -00:49:06,908 --> 00:49:07,597 -stay on +that, you-- like, you wanna -1375 -00:49:07,598 --> 00:49:08,977 -task, +1339 +00:49:06,908 --> 00:49:08,977 +stay on task, -1376 -00:49:08,978 --> 00:49:10,313 +1340 +00:49:08,978 --> 00:49:11,648 right? And if you're gonna get great learning, great feedback -1377 -00:49:10,313 --> 00:49:11,648 -by - -1378 +1341 00:49:11,648 --> 00:49:12,638 -building something that it -- +by building something that it-- like the bootcamp is saying, -1379 +1342 00:49:12,638 --> 00:49:13,628 "Oh, we're -1380 +1343 00:49:13,628 --> 00:49:15,443 gonna build like a, you know, shopping cart," that's totally -1381 +1344 00:49:15,443 --> 00:49:17,258 cool, right? But -1382 +1345 00:49:17,259 --> 00:49:19,509 those- those other pieces of like, "Hey, I've got this skill -1383 +1346 00:49:19,509 --> 00:49:21,751 sat down. I can use it to just really do anything I want," it- -1384 +1347 00:49:21,751 --> 00:49:23,993 it is just so -1385 +1348 00:49:23,994 --> 00:49:26,153 attractive to me in a hiring process. Like, it really -1386 +1349 00:49:26,153 --> 00:49:28,312 separates -1387 +1350 00:49:28,313 --> 00:49:31,373 people out. And I'd imagine that's been the experience for -1388 +1351 00:49:31,373 --> 00:49:33,143 both of you from what you've described too. -1389 +1352 00:49:33,893 --> 00:49:35,528 -Dan: Yeah. And- and like, if you -are -- if your only project is +Dan: Yeah. And- and, like, if +you are-- if your only project -1390 +1353 00:49:35,528 --> 00:49:37,163 -coming out of +is coming out of -1391 +1354 00:49:37,164 --> 00:49:39,188 a bootcamp or what you did in the bootcamp, and everybody else -1392 +1355 00:49:39,188 --> 00:49:41,212 is trying -1393 +1356 00:49:41,213 --> 00:49:43,344 to get a job too, you know, everybody is going to have the -1394 +1357 00:49:43,344 --> 00:49:46,043 same set of projects, right? And so, that's- that's another thing -1395 -00:49:46,074 --> 00:49:47,679 -is doing those. And maybe it's --- maybe there's not enough time - -1396 -00:49:47,679 --> 00:49:49,284 -to +1358 +00:49:46,074 --> 00:49:49,284 +is doing those. And maybe it's-- +maybe there's not enough time -1397 -00:49:49,284 --> 00:49:50,379 -do it while you're in the +1359 +00:49:49,284 --> 00:49:51,474 +to do it while you're in the bootcamp, you know? Maybe kind -1398 -00:49:50,379 --> 00:49:51,474 -of - -1399 +1360 00:49:51,563 --> 00:49:55,853 -do it after, but the -- those +of do it after, but the-- those personal projects, I- I totally -1400 -00:49:55,853 --> 00:49:58,643 +1361 +00:49:55,853 --> 00:50:01,433 agree with you, Matt. It- it- it says- it says so much about ... -1401 -00:49:58,643 --> 00:50:01,433 -you, - -1402 +1362 00:50:01,434 --> 00:50:02,694 -without even speaking -[chuckles]. And then it also - -1403 -00:50:02,694 --> 00:50:03,954 -gives you something to +you, without even speaking +[chuckles]. And then, it also -1404 -00:50:03,954 --> 00:50:04,164 -talk about, that's easy +1363 +00:50:02,694 --> 00:50:04,164 +gives you something to talk +about—that's easy -1405 +1364 00:50:04,164 --> 00:50:06,983 -to talk about because you did +to talk about—because you did it, and you know- and you -1406 +1365 00:50:06,983 --> 00:50:09,548 know it. So it's not a theoretical thing or, you know, -1407 +1366 00:50:09,548 --> 00:50:12,113 school assignment that -1408 +1367 00:50:12,143 --> 00:50:13,688 you weren't connected with, you -know? And it -- and again, it +know? And it-- and again, it -1409 +1368 00:50:13,688 --> 00:50:15,233 doesn't -1410 +1369 00:50:15,233 --> 00:50:17,858 have to be world changing or a successful product or anything -1411 +1370 00:50:17,858 --> 00:50:20,483 like that, -1412 +1371 00:50:20,483 --> 00:50:23,094 right? You- you were talking about that Chrome extension that -1413 +1372 00:50:23,094 --> 00:50:24,308 you made. That's literally just you and your wife [chuckles], -1414 +1373 00:50:24,308 --> 00:50:25,522 right? -1415 +1374 00:50:26,123 --> 00:50:26,454 Matt: Yeah. -1416 +1375 00:50:26,634 --> 00:50:27,953 Dan: And that- and that's it. -Like, but it -- that's- that's- +Like, but it-- that's- that's- -1417 +1376 00:50:27,953 --> 00:50:29,272 that's a cool project. And I -1418 +1377 00:50:29,273 --> 00:50:30,398 -would like -- like, I enjoyed -hearing about it, and I would, +would like-- like, I enjoyed +hearing about it, and I -1419 +1378 00:50:30,398 --> 00:50:31,523 -if +would—if -1420 +1379 00:50:31,523 --> 00:50:34,344 -I was hiring, I would also enjoy -hearing about it. Don't -- you +I was hiring—I would also enjoy +hearing about it. Don't-- you -1421 +1380 00:50:34,344 --> 00:50:35,798 know, you didn't, like, sell it -to somebody, or, you know, it +to somebody or, you know, it -1422 -00:50:35,798 --> 00:50:37,252 -doesn't have to - -1423 -00:50:37,253 --> 00:50:37,643 -be some, I don't know, +1381 +00:50:35,798 --> 00:50:37,643 +doesn't have to be some-- I +don't know-- -1424 +1382 00:50:38,914 --> 00:50:42,264 huge thing. It's- it's just a- a thing that you -1425 -00:50:42,264 --> 00:50:43,583 +1383 +00:50:42,264 --> 00:50:44,902 decided to do on your own, and- and you figured out how to do -1426 -00:50:43,583 --> 00:50:44,902 -it. And - -1427 +1384 00:50:44,903 --> 00:50:45,713 -that's- that's the cool part for -me. +it. And that's- that's the cool +part for me. -1428 +1385 00:50:47,708 --> 00:50:51,309 Bekah: We just wrapped up a hackathon at Deepgram. And one -1429 +1386 00:50:51,338 --> 00:50:53,438 of our participants had, I think, five submissions. And -1430 +1387 00:50:53,438 --> 00:50:55,538 this is a month -1431 +1388 00:50:55,539 --> 00:50:58,238 long hackathon. And the submissions were all -1432 +1389 00:50:58,238 --> 00:51:00,937 interesting, and they -1433 +1390 00:51:00,938 --> 00:51:04,659 were all beautiful. The design was really great. I'm really -1434 +1391 00:51:04,659 --> 00:51:06,474 terrible at design. And the- the fact that all of these looked -1435 +1392 00:51:06,474 --> 00:51:08,289 really -1436 +1393 00:51:08,289 --> 00:51:12,159 wonderful were meaningful, and interesting projects was great. -1437 +1394 00:51:12,278 --> 00:51:16,268 But I interviewed that participant for a blog post -1438 +1395 00:51:16,268 --> 00:51:19,253 highlight. And being able to hear the stories behind it, to -1439 +1396 00:51:19,253 --> 00:51:22,238 hear how he -1440 +1397 00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,304 communicated, what he did, his -approach, how he did it, I -- +approach, how he did it, I-- -1441 +1398 00:51:25,304 --> 00:51:28,369 -that's -- he's a +that's-- he's a -1442 -00:51:28,369 --> 00:51:30,169 +1399 +00:51:28,369 --> 00:51:31,969 person in the top of my book that I would recommend for a -1443 -00:51:30,169 --> 00:51:31,969 -job. - -1444 +1400 00:51:31,998 --> 00:51:33,738 -But I know that he's looking, -and he's going to be more +job. But I know that he's +looking, and he's going to be -1445 +1401 00:51:33,738 --> 00:51:35,478 -actively +more actively -1446 +1402 00:51:35,478 --> 00:51:38,223 -looking soon. And so when +looking soon. And so, when anything comes up, I know that -1447 +1403 00:51:38,223 --> 00:51:40,968 I'm going -1448 -00:51:40,969 --> 00:51:42,828 +1404 +00:51:40,969 --> 00:51:44,687 to reach out to that person. So, you know, if it doesn't catch -1449 -00:51:42,828 --> 00:51:44,687 -the eye - -1450 +1405 00:51:44,748 --> 00:51:46,009 -of somebody who's doing the -hiring, +the eye of somebody who's doing +the hiring, -1451 +1406 00:51:46,009 --> 00:51:47,973 it might catch the eye of somebody who's in a position -1452 +1407 00:51:47,973 --> 00:51:49,937 where people -1453 +1408 00:51:49,938 --> 00:51:51,693 reach out to them and say, "Hey, do you know anybody?" Like, -1454 +1409 00:51:51,693 --> 00:51:53,448 "Yes, I -1455 +1410 00:51:53,449 --> 00:51:55,938 do. This person would be really, really great for this role." -1456 +1411 00:51:57,963 --> 00:51:59,328 Matt: Yeah, that's- that's really interesting. And, you -1457 +1412 00:51:59,328 --> 00:52:00,693 know, and -1458 +1413 00:52:00,693 --> 00:52:03,603 another sort of related thing that I hear a lot of hiring -1459 -00:52:03,603 --> 00:52:04,968 +1414 +00:52:03,603 --> 00:52:06,333 managers articulate, and there's famous examples of this, too, -1460 -00:52:04,968 --> 00:52:06,333 -is- - -1461 +1415 00:52:06,753 --> 00:52:08,690 -is like a really strong +is- is, like, a really strong indicator of success in a -1462 +1416 00:52:08,690 --> 00:52:10,627 businesses or in a -1463 -00:52:10,628 --> 00:52:12,413 -particular role is how -- has +1417 +00:52:10,628 --> 00:52:14,198 +particular role is how-- has that person achieved a success -1464 -00:52:12,413 --> 00:52:14,198 -or - -1465 +1418 00:52:14,199 --> 00:52:18,759 -excellence in a completely +or excellence in a completely different area, right? And, -1466 +1419 00:52:18,969 --> 00:52:20,409 -you know, the -- Shopify has -this famous example where their +you know, the-- Shopify has this +famous example where their -1467 +1420 00:52:20,409 --> 00:52:21,849 CEO -1468 +1421 00:52:21,849 --> 00:52:24,429 gave an internship or a job to -someone because they are like +someone because they are, like, -1469 +1422 00:52:24,429 --> 00:52:27,000 ranked in the top 50 at StarCraft, you know? -1470 +1423 00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:28,000 Dan: That's awesome. -1471 +1424 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,674 -Matt: And there's like similar +Matt: And there's, like, similar sort of conversation in- in -1472 +1425 00:52:31,674 --> 00:52:35,348 sales, like, you know, this other sort of area around -1473 +1426 00:52:35,349 --> 00:52:38,378 people who have had a-athletic success, you know? So there- -1474 -00:52:38,438 --> 00:52:39,593 +1427 +00:52:38,438 --> 00:52:40,748 there are people who are sales managers, they were like, "Oh, -1475 -00:52:39,593 --> 00:52:40,748 -you - -1476 +1428 00:52:40,748 --> 00:52:44,289 -were division to athlete and +you were division to athlete and track?" Like, that's a really -1477 -00:52:44,289 --> 00:52:46,268 +1429 +00:52:44,289 --> 00:52:48,247 strong indicator for this other -type of thing. And I- I think - -1478 -00:52:46,268 --> 00:52:48,247 -like - -1479 -00:52:48,248 --> 00:52:49,703 -you also see it in like -volunteers. I'm like -- the +type of thing. And I- I think, -1480 -00:52:49,703 --> 00:52:51,158 -stuff +1430 +00:52:48,248 --> 00:52:51,158 +like, you also see it in, like, +volunteers. I'm-- like the stuff -1481 +1431 00:52:51,159 --> 00:52:53,559 you did when we're describing in university, Bekah. Right? -1482 +1432 00:52:54,324 --> 00:52:57,083 It's interesting, these signals. Because the way that we -1483 +1433 00:52:57,264 --> 00:52:59,349 typically interview is like in front of a whiteboard -1484 +1434 00:52:59,349 --> 00:53:01,434 [chuckles], and we -1485 +1435 00:53:01,434 --> 00:53:03,998 -just -- we know it's- it's- it's -a hard process to take on - -1486 -00:53:03,998 --> 00:53:06,562 -anyways. +just-- we know it's- it's- it's +a hard process to take on-- -1487 -00:53:07,344 --> 00:53:07,733 -All- all I have to say. +1436 +00:53:03,998 --> 00:53:07,733 +anyways, all- all I have to say. -1488 +1437 00:53:09,039 --> 00:53:10,883 Bekah: Yeah, it is- it is really hard. And I think, even hearing -1489 +1438 00:53:10,883 --> 00:53:12,727 a lot of -1490 +1439 00:53:12,728 --> 00:53:14,813 conversations around hiring where people are trying to do -1491 +1440 00:53:14,813 --> 00:53:16,898 things, -1492 +1441 00:53:16,929 --> 00:53:20,648 -there -- there's still so much -of the process where we're stuck +there-- there's still so much of +the process where we're stuck -1493 +1442 00:53:20,648 --> 00:53:25,098 inside this box. So, rather than, like, really trying to ... -1494 +1443 00:53:25,098 --> 00:53:29,548 rethink how we -1495 +1444 00:53:29,548 --> 00:53:32,518 -do the entire process, we're +do the entire process, we're, like, well, we're gonna -1496 -00:53:32,518 --> 00:53:34,633 -rethink, but we still have to do +1445 +00:53:32,518 --> 00:53:36,748 +rethink but we still have to do all of these things. And we have -1497 -00:53:34,633 --> 00:53:36,748 -to - -1498 +1446 00:53:36,748 --> 00:53:39,148 -ask these questions because you -have to [chuckles]. You- you +to ask these questions because +you have to. [Chuckles] You- you -1499 +1447 00:53:39,148 --> 00:53:41,548 don't have to. -1500 +1448 00:53:41,548 --> 00:53:43,633 -That's not -- what is that ... +That's not-- what is that ... indicating? And how does that -1501 +1449 00:53:43,633 --> 00:53:45,718 tell you -1502 +1450 00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,898 whether or not that's going to be a good person for you to work -1503 -00:53:48,898 --> 00:53:51,163 +1451 +00:53:48,898 --> 00:53:53,428 with or a good team for you to join? How do we rethink the way -1504 -00:53:51,163 --> 00:53:53,428 -that - -1505 +1452 00:53:53,429 --> 00:53:57,216 -we're ... doing hiring? How +that we're ... doing hiring? How we're onboarding new people? How -1506 +1453 00:53:57,216 --> 00:54:01,003 we are -1507 +1454 00:54:01,003 --> 00:54:03,238 looking at junior developers in -this hiring process? I can't -- +this hiring process? I can't-- -1508 +1455 00:54:03,238 --> 00:54:05,473 in- in -1509 -00:54:05,474 --> 00:54:07,244 -my mind, it has to be -- there's +1456 +00:54:05,474 --> 00:54:09,014 +my mind, it has to be-- there's a much bigger shift that needs -1510 -00:54:07,244 --> 00:54:09,014 -to - -1511 +1457 00:54:09,014 --> 00:54:12,643 -happen than, you know, these +to happen than, you know, these tiny changes that we keep seeing -1512 +1458 00:54:12,643 --> 00:54:13,244 happening. -1513 +1459 00:54:14,708 --> 00:54:18,369 -Matt: Yeah. I, you know, I -- -there's a part of me that -- +Matt: Yeah. I, you know, I-- +there's a part of me that-- -1514 +1460 00:54:18,608 --> 00:54:21,518 and I- I wanna sort of say this in the, like, the best possible -1515 +1461 00:54:21,518 --> 00:54:24,158 -way that I'm -- I- I wish that +way that I'm-- I- I wish that people generally were more -1516 +1462 00:54:24,158 --> 00:54:26,798 deliberate -1517 +1463 00:54:26,858 --> 00:54:28,763 about what they wanted out of a job. And this has been something -1518 +1464 00:54:28,763 --> 00:54:30,668 that's been -1519 +1465 00:54:30,668 --> 00:54:32,333 incredibly important for me. And, you know, there's these -1520 +1466 00:54:32,333 --> 00:54:33,998 books -1521 +1467 00:54:33,998 --> 00:54:36,458 -that like, sort of get you -thinking on these topics, but +that, like, sort of get you +thinking on these topics, but, -1522 +1468 00:54:37,224 --> 00:54:39,143 like, really early on, for me, -was it -- that- that juncture +was it-- that- that juncture -1523 +1469 00:54:39,143 --> 00:54:41,062 -where I'm +where I'm like, -1524 +1470 00:54:41,063 --> 00:54:42,713 -like, oh, like, a career in tech -in- in -- specifically, there's +"Oh," like, "a career in tech, +in- in ..." specifically, -1525 +1471 00:54:42,713 --> 00:54:44,363 -a shift I +there's a shift I -1526 +1472 00:54:44,364 --> 00:54:45,923 had, you know, a couple of years -after learning code where I -- +after learning code where I-- -1527 +1473 00:54:45,923 --> 00:54:47,482 I've -1528 +1474 00:54:47,543 --> 00:54:50,634 very deliberately, I wanna run a business. I- I wanna run a -1529 +1475 00:54:50,634 --> 00:54:53,123 technology based business. And that wasn't for the sake of -1530 +1476 00:54:53,184 --> 00:54:55,523 wanting to do that. It was because of these other things -1531 +1477 00:54:55,523 --> 00:54:56,783 -that I wanted. I sat -- -literally had a moment where I +that I wanted. I sat-- literally +had a moment where I -1532 +1478 00:54:56,783 --> 00:54:58,043 sat down, and I -1533 -00:54:58,043 --> 00:55:00,298 +1479 +00:54:58,043 --> 00:55:02,553 say, "What do I wanted in my work life?" And, you know, for -1534 -00:55:00,298 --> 00:55:02,553 -me, - -1535 -00:55:02,554 --> 00:55:04,744 -they were things that were -connected to autonomy. I wanted, +1480 +00:55:02,554 --> 00:55:03,649 +me, they were things that were +connected to autonomy. I -1536 -00:55:04,983 --> 00:55:06,558 -like, in a perfect world, I -would work where and when I +1481 +00:55:03,649 --> 00:55:04,744 +wanted—like, -1537 -00:55:06,558 --> 00:55:08,133 -wanted to. +1482 +00:55:04,983 --> 00:55:08,133 +in a perfect world—I would work +where and when I wanted to. -1538 +1483 00:55:08,134 --> 00:55:09,709 -I would -- like, I- I ne- was -always confused that we had this +I would-- like, I- I ne- was +always confused that we had -1539 +1484 00:55:09,709 --> 00:55:11,284 -like 40 +this, like, 40 -1540 +1485 00:55:11,284 --> 00:55:13,034 hour a week box that we often live in. Like, why does that- -1541 +1486 00:55:13,034 --> 00:55:14,784 why does -1542 +1487 00:55:14,784 --> 00:55:17,844 that have to exist, you know? Like, what are the reasons that -1543 +1488 00:55:17,844 --> 00:55:19,959 the edges of that box are there? -And like, I -- what if one week +And, like, I-- what if one week -1544 +1489 00:55:19,959 --> 00:55:22,074 I -1545 +1490 00:55:22,074 --> 00:55:25,403 -wanna work less? And one week I -wanted that type of control to, +wanna work less and one week I +wanted that type of control to-- -1546 +1491 00:55:25,884 --> 00:55:29,483 -you know, there were these -- I- +you know, there were these-- I- I wanted to work on any type of -1547 +1492 00:55:29,483 --> 00:55:32,693 problem that I wanted. I- I wanted to have the potential for -1548 +1493 00:55:32,693 --> 00:55:36,293 financial independence, you know? These types of things. And -1549 -00:55:36,344 --> 00:55:40,403 -that put like, you know, to me, -that was really helpful because +1494 +00:55:36,344 --> 00:55:38,373 +that put, like-- you know, to +me, that was really helpful -1550 +1495 +00:55:38,373 --> 00:55:40,402 +because + +1496 00:55:40,403 --> 00:55:41,873 it determined the types of jobs that I wanted to work at and- -1551 +1497 00:55:41,873 --> 00:55:43,343 and why. -1552 +1498 00:55:43,824 --> 00:55:45,233 -And so when I started applying -to -- and I -- like, I think I +And so, when I started applying +to-- and I-- like, I think I -1553 +1499 00:55:45,233 --> 00:55:46,642 applied -1554 +1500 00:55:46,643 --> 00:55:48,713 to, you know, putting IBM and Microsoft aside because I- I -1555 +1501 00:55:48,713 --> 00:55:50,783 never actually put an -1556 +1502 00:55:50,784 --> 00:55:53,754 application into either company. -It -- they -- like, once you get +It-- they-- like, once you get -1557 +1503 00:55:53,754 --> 00:55:56,724 -in, it -- I +in, it-- I -1558 +1504 00:55:56,813 --> 00:55:59,813 just wanna go there, but it's a -different process. And -- but +different process. And-- but -1559 +1505 00:55:59,813 --> 00:56:00,983 I did apply to two technology companies to be a programmer. -1560 +1506 00:56:00,983 --> 00:56:02,153 And -1561 +1507 00:56:02,244 --> 00:56:04,994 -that -- my purpose in applying -to them was, you know, the- the +that-- my purpose in applying to +them was, you know, the- the -1562 +1508 00:56:05,003 --> 00:56:07,434 conventional wisdom that working at a startup will help you do a -1563 +1509 00:56:07,434 --> 00:56:10,434 startup later. And that's what I wanted. I wanted to run my own -1564 -00:56:10,434 --> 00:56:12,713 -business. So I was applying to a -very particular type of company +1510 +00:56:10,434 --> 00:56:11,573 +business. So, I was applying to +a very particular type of -1565 +1511 +00:56:11,573 --> 00:56:12,712 +company + +1512 00:56:12,713 --> 00:56:16,344 because the purpose of that learning was to help me do this -1566 +1513 00:56:16,344 --> 00:56:20,273 thing later. And, you know, the funny thing about people who are -1567 +1514 00:56:20,304 --> 00:56:23,873 junior devel- developers and who -are graduating like in 2022, +are graduating, like, in 2022 -1568 +1515 00:56:24,293 --> 00:56:25,223 is in a very short period of time, they're the hiring -1569 +1516 00:56:25,223 --> 00:56:26,153 managers. -1570 +1517 00:56:28,309 --> 00:56:30,498 -And, you know, I -- like, I -- -my gut feeling is that if people +And, you know, I-- like, I-- my +gut feeling is that if people -1571 +1518 00:56:30,498 --> 00:56:32,687 were -1572 +1519 00:56:32,688 --> 00:56:36,679 -approaching that process with -like a very deliberate set of +approaching that process with, +like, a very deliberate set of -1573 +1520 00:56:36,739 --> 00:56:40,489 values and intentions, that hiring would change on the -1574 +1521 00:56:40,489 --> 00:56:44,748 -back end, later. Or maybe not, +back end later, or maybe not, you know? [Laughs] -1575 +1522 00:56:48,969 --> 00:56:50,708 Bekah: Yeah, that's interesting. I hadn't really thought about -1576 +1523 00:56:50,708 --> 00:56:53,333 that. And it- and it can be really hard, especially with so -1577 +1524 00:56:53,333 --> 00:56:55,958 many people -1578 +1525 00:56:55,989 --> 00:56:58,268 looking for jobs on the market -right now. And -- I knew that I +right now. And-- I knew that I -1579 +1526 00:56:58,268 --> 00:57:00,547 spent a lot -1580 +1527 00:57:00,548 --> 00:57:05,079 of time telling people, when you join your first team, it should -1581 -00:57:05,079 --> 00:57:07,464 -be about the people, and not the +1528 +00:57:05,079 --> 00:57:09,849 +be about the people and not the project. Because I've seen so -1582 -00:57:07,464 --> 00:57:09,849 -many - -1583 -00:57:09,849 --> 00:57:10,921 -people jump into, I -- +1529 +00:57:09,849 --> 00:57:14,139 +many people jump into-- I-- particularly, EdTech companies. -1584 -00:57:10,921 --> 00:57:11,993 -I - -1585 +1530 00:57:11,994 --> 00:57:14,139 -don't know. +I don't know. -1586 +1531 00:57:14,289 --> 00:57:17,033 -I just -- generally EdTech +I just-- generally, EdTech that's really toxic or what, but -1587 +1532 00:57:17,033 --> 00:57:19,777 just -1588 +1533 00:57:20,409 --> 00:57:22,718 really bad experiences. And there's been the whole, like, -1589 +1534 00:57:22,718 --> 00:57:25,027 mission trade-off thing. -1590 +1535 00:57:25,059 --> 00:57:27,991 "Well," you know, "We've got a great mission." Well, but you're -1591 +1536 00:57:27,991 --> 00:57:30,923 doing a -1592 +1537 00:57:30,923 --> 00:57:32,963 terrible job of managing a team, being kind to other people -1593 +1538 00:57:32,963 --> 00:57:35,003 [chuckles], you -1594 +1539 00:57:35,003 --> 00:57:37,253 know? Like, those things matter. -1595 +1540 00:57:38,403 --> 00:57:40,548 -Matt: Yeah. You know, I- I -- if -I was, you know, the key -- talk +Matt: Yeah. You know, I- I-- if +I was, you know, the key-- talk -1596 +1541 00:57:40,548 --> 00:57:42,693 -about EdTech, and I - -1597 -00:57:42,693 --> 00:57:43,893 -completely echo that sentiment, -I think it's totally correct. +about EdTech—and I -1598 -00:57:43,893 --> 00:57:45,093 -And video- +1542 +00:57:42,693 --> 00:57:45,093 +completely echo that sentiment—I +think it's totally correct. -1599 +1543 00:57:45,153 --> 00:57:46,000 -video game industry is -notorious, right? +And video- video game industry +is notorious, right? -1600 +1544 00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:46,000 Bekah: Yeah. -1601 -00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:47,994 -Matt: For -- like, it's not -being a great place to work. If - -1602 -00:57:47,994 --> 00:57:49,988 -there +1545 +00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,988 +Matt: For-- like, it's not being +a great place to work. If -1603 +1546 00:57:49,989 --> 00:57:53,978 -was one thing that I learned -working in big tech, +there was one thing that I +learned working in big tech, -1604 +1547 00:57:54,009 --> 00:57:55,884 like, you know, going from a -college where you're, you know, +college where you're-- you know, -1605 +1548 00:57:55,884 --> 00:57:57,759 -you, +you-- -1606 +1549 00:57:57,789 --> 00:58:00,398 like, you make this amount of money, you need a $1,500 raise a -1607 +1550 00:58:00,398 --> 00:58:02,378 year, and it's unionized, and X, and Y, and Z. And then, like, I -1608 +1551 00:58:02,378 --> 00:58:04,358 remember -1609 +1552 00:58:04,389 --> 00:58:06,734 the week that I joined IBM, they, like, flew me down to -1610 +1553 00:58:06,734 --> 00:58:09,079 Silicon Valley for two -1611 +1554 00:58:09,079 --> 00:58:10,714 -weeks. We had this -- then we +weeks. We had this-- then we had, like, this event. And there -1612 +1555 00:58:10,714 --> 00:58:12,349 -was like +was, like, -1613 -00:58:12,498 --> 00:58:14,013 +1556 +00:58:12,498 --> 00:58:15,528 this music, and it was just all catered, and it was all free, -1614 -00:58:14,013 --> 00:58:15,528 -and - -1615 +1557 00:58:16,039 --> 00:58:18,004 -it was crazy, the amount of +and it was crazy—the amount of money. And I got the opportunity -1616 +1558 00:58:18,004 --> 00:58:19,969 to work -1617 +1559 00:58:19,969 --> 00:58:22,668 with you. It was really great. I loved both of those jobs. -1618 +1560 00:58:22,789 --> 00:58:24,543 Loved, loved, loved both of them. And I think, one of the -1619 +1561 00:58:24,543 --> 00:58:26,297 things -1620 +1562 00:58:26,298 --> 00:58:29,329 that I've learned is, that a lot of the things that we want in an -1621 +1563 00:58:29,329 --> 00:58:31,386 employer, a really, really strong indicator is the health -1622 +1564 00:58:31,386 --> 00:58:33,443 of the -1623 +1565 00:58:33,443 --> 00:58:37,344 business. If you wanna- if- if you wanna work, you know, my- my -1624 +1566 00:58:37,403 --> 00:58:39,833 wife works at Shopify. She loves it there. And, you know, they -1625 +1567 00:58:39,833 --> 00:58:42,263 -have -- Shopify makes +have-- Shopify makes -1626 +1568 00:58:42,264 --> 00:58:43,943 so much money that they can hire people, that all they do is -1627 +1569 00:58:43,943 --> 00:58:45,622 think -1628 +1570 00:58:45,623 --> 00:58:48,204 about diversity and equity. And -they hire another -- they have a +they hire another-- they have a -1629 +1571 00:58:48,204 --> 00:58:49,613 whole team that all they do is think about culture. And they -1630 +1572 00:58:49,613 --> 00:58:51,022 have -1631 +1573 00:58:51,023 --> 00:58:54,534 -whole teams that do all -- do +whole teams that do all-- do nothing but, you know, run an -1632 +1574 00:58:54,534 --> 00:58:58,509 internal events and try to make that a great place to work, you -1633 +1575 00:58:58,509 --> 00:59:01,000 know? You can do that if you've got a ton of money. -1634 +1576 00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:01,000 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -1635 +1577 00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,934 Matt: And, you know, in terms of diversity in tech, my AI team at -1636 +1578 00:59:04,934 --> 00:59:07,868 Microsoft, we were -1637 +1579 00:59:08,018 --> 00:59:10,329 extremely diverse by every standard. We had more women than -1638 +1580 00:59:10,329 --> 00:59:12,788 -men, and- and that's an AI where --- like, its AI and data science +men, and- and that's an AI +where-- like, its AI and data -1639 +1581 00:59:12,788 --> 00:59:15,247 -is enormously +science is enormously -1640 +1582 00:59:15,248 --> 00:59:17,378 behind computer science. It's -where computer science was like +where computer science was, -1641 +1583 00:59:17,378 --> 00:59:19,943 -15 years ago. But we were able -to have a diverse team at +like, 15 years ago. But we were +able to have a diverse team at -1642 +1584 00:59:19,943 --> 00:59:22,508 Microsoft -1643 +1585 00:59:22,509 --> 00:59:25,193 because we could outbid everybody, you know? We- we -1644 +1586 00:59:25,193 --> 00:59:27,877 could go hire the best, and the -1645 +1587 00:59:27,878 --> 00:59:30,098 best one are to work for us. And we can afford it. And there's a -1646 +1588 00:59:30,098 --> 00:59:32,318 million -1647 +1589 00:59:32,318 --> 00:59:34,493 other examples like that. So, -it's like, I think going full +it's, like, I think, going full -1648 +1590 00:59:34,493 --> 00:59:36,668 circle, -1649 +1591 00:59:37,208 --> 00:59:39,699 a lot of EdTech can be a really tough place to work because -1650 +1592 00:59:39,909 --> 00:59:42,000 that's a really, really hard business to be in. -1651 +1593 00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:42,000 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -1652 +1594 00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,959 Matt: And you're- you're pinching every corner. And -1653 +1595 00:59:44,959 --> 00:59:47,918 usually, you are. And same with the video game -1654 +1596 00:59:47,918 --> 00:59:51,338 -industry is, it is like, you +industry is-- it is, like, you know, if that game does well, -1655 +1597 00:59:51,338 --> 00:59:53,348 congratulations. But if it -doesn't, you -- it -- like, it's +doesn't, you-- it-- like, it's -1656 +1598 00:59:53,348 --> 00:59:55,358 -really -- it's a tough +really-- it's a tough -1657 +1599 00:59:55,358 --> 00:59:59,043 environment to work in. So, you know, if you wanna have a -1658 +1600 00:59:59,043 --> 01:00:01,503 really great place to work, I think the best, most simple -1659 +1601 01:00:01,503 --> 01:00:02,913 indicator you can look at is, like, how much money did they -1660 +1602 01:00:02,913 --> 01:00:04,323 raise in -1661 +1603 01:00:04,324 --> 01:00:05,794 -the last round, if it's a -startup. If it's a publicly -- +the last round—if it's a +startup. If it's a publicly-- -1662 +1604 01:00:05,794 --> 01:00:07,264 big -1663 +1605 01:00:07,264 --> 01:00:09,454 publicly traded company, is it growing? Look at their stock -1664 +1606 01:00:09,454 --> 01:00:11,119 chart for five years. Does it go up? You know, if it does, -1665 +1607 01:00:11,119 --> 01:00:12,784 probably -1666 +1608 01:00:12,784 --> 01:00:14,478 a great place to work. If it's flat, it- it, you know, you -1667 +1609 01:00:14,478 --> 01:00:16,172 -might be getting +might be getting, -1668 +1610 01:00:16,684 --> 01:00:17,793 -like -- you might not have -budget to go to that next +like-- you might not have budget +to go to that next -1669 +1611 01:00:17,793 --> 01:00:18,902 conference. -1670 +1612 01:00:18,963 --> 01:00:20,718 It's ... you know? And similarly, people might not be -1671 -01:00:20,718 --> 01:00:22,473 -attracted to - -1672 -01:00:22,474 --> 01:00:23,164 -work there, in the same. +1613 +01:00:20,718 --> 01:00:23,164 +attracted to work there, in the +same. -1673 +1614 01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:27,201 Bekah: Yeah, I think that's great advice. I wanna thank you -1674 +1615 01:00:27,201 --> 01:00:29,601 so much for being here with us today and having this -1675 +1616 01:00:29,601 --> 01:00:31,595 conversation. There's a lot of really great takeaway cuz I feel -1676 +1617 01:00:31,595 --> 01:00:33,589 -like -- +like-- -1677 +1618 01:00:33,590 --> 01:00:36,860 from all these stuff that we -talked about here. Is there +talked about here, is there -1678 -01:00:36,860 --> 01:00:38,765 +1619 +01:00:36,860 --> 01:00:40,670 anything that you wanna share -before we leave, or any last - -1679 -01:00:38,765 --> 01:00:40,670 -words +before we leave or any last -1680 +1620 01:00:40,670 --> 01:00:42,050 -of wisdom for our listeners? +words of wisdom for our +listeners? -1681 +1621 01:00:42,596 --> 01:00:44,036 -Matt: No. Thanks everyone. The --- thank you, Bekah and Dan, for +Matt: No. Thanks everyone. The-- +thank you, Bekah and Dan, for -1682 +1622 01:00:44,036 --> 01:00:45,476 having me. -1683 +1623 01:00:45,476 --> 01:00:46,855 It's- it's great. If nothing else, I think one of the things -1684 +1624 01:00:46,855 --> 01:00:48,234 we all -1685 +1625 01:00:48,235 --> 01:00:49,810 take away from today is build personal projects. Go make -1686 +1626 01:00:49,810 --> 01:00:51,385 stuff. -1687 -01:00:51,536 --> 01:00:53,230 +1627 +01:00:51,536 --> 01:00:54,924 Like, you know, the- the old Y-Com motto, make- make stuff -1688 -01:00:53,230 --> 01:00:54,924 -people - -1689 +1628 01:00:54,925 --> 01:00:56,396 -want, right? Make stuff you -want. +people want, right? Make stuff +you want. -1690 +1629 01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:55,000 Bekah: Yeah. -1691 +1630 01:00:56,501 --> 01:00:56,800 Dan: Yeah. -1692 +1631 01:00:56,846 --> 01:00:57,326 -Matt: It's cool. And share it -- +Matt: It's cool. And share it-- -1693 +1632 01:00:57,860 --> 01:00:58,501 Bekah: Share with us too. We wanna see 'em. -1694 +1633 01:00:59,036 --> 01:01:00,896 Matt: Yeah, totally. Thank you so much for having me. -1695 +1634 01:01:01,001 --> 01:01:03,000 Dan: Thanks, Matt. This is awesome. -1696 +1635 01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:03,000 Bekah: Bye. -1697 +1636 01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,834 Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual -1698 +1637 01:01:08,834 --> 01:01:11,668 -Coffee podcast. This episode was +Coffee Podcast. This episode was -1699 +1638 01:01:11,668 --> 01:01:14,548 produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel. If you have -1700 +1639 01:01:14,548 --> 01:01:16,648 questions or comments, you can hit us up on Twitter at -1701 +1640 01:01:16,648 --> 01:01:18,853 -VirtualCoffeeIO, or email us at +VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You -1702 +1641 01:01:18,853 --> 01:01:21,058 can -1703 +1642 01:01:21,059 --> 01:01:23,429 find the show notes, sign up for the newsletter, check out any of -1704 +1643 01:01:23,429 --> 01:01:26,668 our other resources on our website, virtualcoffee.io. If -1705 +1644 01:01:26,668 --> 01:01:28,949 you're interested in sponsoring Virtual Coffee, you can find out -1706 +1645 01:01:28,949 --> 01:01:32,728 more information on our website at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. -1707 +1646 01:01:33,148 --> 01:01:34,903 Please subscribe to our podcast, and be sure to leave us a -1708 +1647 01:01:34,903 --> 01:01:36,658 review. -1709 +1648 01:01:37,048 --> 01:01:38,909 Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week. \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/episodes/5_9.srt b/episodes/5_9.srt index 78ee9d9..183abd4 100644 --- a/episodes/5_9.srt +++ b/episodes/5_9.srt @@ -9,7 +9,7 @@ of the 3 00:00:09,746 --> 00:00:12,400 -Virtual Coffee podcast. I'm +Virtual Coffee Podcast. I'm Bekah. And this is a podcast 4 @@ -31,237 +31,237 @@ developers at all stages of their 8 -00:00:21,653 --> 00:00:24,414 -coding journey. And they're here -on this podcast, sharing their +00:00:21,653 --> 00:00:23,033 +coding journey. And they're +here, on this podcast, sharing 9 +00:00:23,033 --> 00:00:24,413 +their + +10 00:00:24,414 --> 00:00:25,928 stories and what they've learned. And we're here to share -10 +11 00:00:25,928 --> 00:00:27,442 it with -11 +12 00:00:27,443 --> 00:00:31,583 you. Here with me today is my co-host, Dan, and everybody's -12 +13 00:00:31,583 --> 00:00:33,084 favorite maintainer, Kirk. -13 +14 00:00:33,567 --> 00:00:39,476 -Dan: Hello! Welcome to our +Dan Ott: Hello! Welcome to our season finale of Season 5. As we -14 +15 00:00:39,476 --> 00:00:41,591 traditionally do, we have Kirk on to hang out with us because -15 +16 00:00:41,591 --> 00:00:43,706 we -16 +17 00:00:43,707 --> 00:00:47,877 all love Kirk very much. And we are going to talk about some -17 -00:00:47,877 --> 00:00:53,286 +18 +00:00:47,877 --> 00:00:50,581 choices we made with- with -Virtual Coffee and some feedback +Virtual Coffee, and some -18 +19 +00:00:50,581 --> 00:00:53,285 +feedback + +20 00:00:53,286 --> 00:00:57,606 we've had over the last few months, and what we have -19 +21 00:00:57,606 --> 00:01:00,336 going on in the future. So, glad as always to have Kirk here. -20 +22 00:01:00,336 --> 00:01:03,066 -And, +And-- -21 +23 00:01:03,097 --> 00:01:04,626 yeah, it's gonna be fun. -22 +24 00:01:05,552 --> 00:01:07,861 Bekah: Yeah. And we're gonna start off this episode of the -23 +25 00:01:07,861 --> 00:01:12,001 podcast like we start off every Virtual Coffee. We'll introduce -24 +26 00:01:12,001 --> 00:01:15,811 ourselves with our name, where we're from, what we do, and a -25 +27 00:01:15,811 --> 00:01:27,832 random check-in question. We hope you enjoy this episode. Our -26 +28 00:01:27,832 --> 00:01:30,547 question today is, what was your favorite game to play as a -27 +29 00:01:30,547 --> 00:01:33,262 child? -28 +30 00:01:34,843 --> 00:01:37,362 My name is Bekah. I'm a technical community builder from -29 +31 00:01:37,362 --> 00:01:39,881 a small -30 +32 00:01:39,882 --> 00:01:42,247 town in Ohio, and my favorite -game to play as a child -- I +game to play as a child-- I -31 +33 00:01:42,247 --> 00:01:44,612 mean, -32 +34 00:01:44,662 --> 00:01:46,922 -like, due to I grew up to -- -here, I really loved Othello, so +like, due to I grew up to-- +here, I really loved Othello. So -33 +35 00:01:46,922 --> 00:01:49,182 I played -34 +36 00:01:49,183 --> 00:01:53,263 a lot of Othello with my dad. -And then I'm gonna go outdoor +And then, I'm gonna go outdoor -35 +37 00:01:53,322 --> 00:01:57,612 games. We also played a lot of kickball and badminton in my -36 +38 00:01:57,612 --> 00:01:59,923 -backyard. So I can't really +backyard. So, I can't really decide between kickball and -37 +39 00:01:59,923 --> 00:02:04,332 badminton, but I have very fond memories of all of those things. -38 +40 00:02:04,628 --> 00:02:06,158 Dan: All right, so you're going three games. -39 +41 00:02:06,403 --> 00:02:08,143 Bekah: Yeah. Okay. I can do what I want, right [laughs]? -40 +42 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,858 Dan: What are your three favorite games [laughs]? -41 -00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:10,500 +43 +00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:11,000 Kirk Shillingford: Pick your -favorite game. It doesn't mean - -42 -00:02:10,500 --> 00:02:11,000 --- +favorite game. It doesn't mean-- -43 +44 00:02:11,832 --> 00:02:12,973 Bekah: You get one, Dan. -44 +45 00:02:14,228 --> 00:02:18,273 Dan: [Laughs] Hi, I'm Dan. You all know who I am. My favorite -45 +46 00:02:18,273 --> 00:02:22,318 game ... I don't -46 +47 00:02:22,318 --> 00:02:23,518 -know. This is like when my mind -just to the next -- +know. This is, like, when my +mind just to the next-- -47 +48 00:02:23,772 --> 00:02:25,077 Bekah: Wait- wait a minute. You -said, "We -- you all know who I +said, "We-- you all know who I -48 +49 00:02:25,077 --> 00:02:26,382 am." [Dan laughs] What if you have a -49 +50 00:02:26,383 --> 00:02:28,092 first time listener here, okay? -50 +51 00:02:28,298 --> 00:02:30,408 Dan: Okay. Well, first time listener. Well, I'm Dan. I live -51 +52 00:02:30,408 --> 00:02:32,518 in Cleveland. I make -52 +53 00:02:32,578 --> 00:02:34,918 websites stuff with code. -Sometimes in front end -- most +Sometimes in front end-- most -53 +54 00:02:34,918 --> 00:02:37,258 of the time, -54 +55 00:02:37,258 --> 00:02:40,858 front end, sometimes back end. I do a lot of other things too. -55 +56 00:02:41,337 --> 00:02:44,622 And it's all on my computer [Dan and Bekah laugh]. I'm sorry. I'm -56 -00:02:44,622 --> 00:02:47,907 -having trouble - 57 -00:02:47,907 --> 00:02:48,897 -today. All right. +00:02:44,622 --> 00:02:48,897 +having trouble today. All right. 58 00:02:49,677 --> 00:02:51,672 @@ -269,5828 +269,5766 @@ Bekah: You should participated in the monthly challenge last 59 -00:02:51,672 --> 00:02:53,667 +00:02:51,672 --> 00:02:54,598 month for the elevator pitch. I - -60 -00:02:53,668 --> 00:02:54,598 think it would have helped you- -61 +60 00:02:54,828 --> 00:02:55,457 Kirk: No, that's the perfect [unintelligible]- -62 +61 00:02:55,497 --> 00:02:56,548 Bekah: -refine your intro. -63 +62 00:02:57,168 --> 00:02:57,807 Dan: I should have. -64 +63 00:02:57,828 --> 00:02:58,518 Kirk: -angel word. -65 +64 00:02:59,068 --> 00:03:08,728 Dan: I- I make computer things [chuckles]. -66 +65 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,000 Kirk: Real quick. -67 +66 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:10,373 Dan: So, games as a child ... we had this- we had this board game -68 +67 00:03:10,373 --> 00:03:15,746 called Omega Virus- -69 +68 00:03:15,747 --> 00:03:15,758 Bekah: Yes! Yes, yes, Omega Virus. -70 +69 00:03:15,758 --> 00:03:16,592 Dan: -is the first thing that popped in mind. You know Omega -71 +70 00:03:16,592 --> 00:03:17,426 Virus? -72 +71 00:03:17,627 --> 00:03:17,627 Bekah: Yes! -73 +72 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,000 Dan: [Chuckles] Oh my god. That's amazing. -74 +73 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:21,729 Bekah: I think I accidentally called Omicron, Omega virus -75 +74 00:03:21,729 --> 00:03:23,458 [laughs] one time in public. And somebody was like, "What?" -76 +75 00:03:23,458 --> 00:03:25,187 [laughs]. -77 +76 00:03:25,587 --> 00:03:26,967 Dan: [Laughs] It's amazing! Okay. So that game was really -78 +77 00:03:26,967 --> 00:03:28,347 fun. I- I -79 +78 00:03:28,348 --> 00:03:29,338 mean, I don't even know if it's -a good game, but it had -- you +a good game, but it had-- you -80 +79 00:03:29,338 --> 00:03:30,328 know, -81 +80 00:03:30,328 --> 00:03:32,127 a guy that yelled at you, and robots, and stuff. And so it -82 +81 00:03:32,127 --> 00:03:33,926 was- -83 +82 00:03:33,987 --> 00:03:35,907 it was fun. That was the first thing that popped in my mind. So -84 +83 00:03:36,687 --> 00:03:39,687 we played lots of games growing up. But that one has -85 +84 00:03:39,687 --> 00:03:42,094 a special place, you know, in my heart. So ... for my one -86 +85 00:03:42,094 --> 00:03:44,501 favorite game, I'm picking -87 +86 00:03:44,502 --> 00:03:45,173 Omega Virus. -88 +87 00:03:45,353 --> 00:03:46,000 -Bekah: I was the one -- I wanna +Bekah: I was the one-- I wanna add another one. -89 +88 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:48,000 -Dan: Cuz I thought the rules -- +Dan: Cuz I thought the rules-- -90 +89 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,946 Bekah: Number four. Computer game, loved Monkey Island, and -91 +90 00:03:49,946 --> 00:03:51,892 it's coming back. And -92 +91 00:03:51,893 --> 00:03:54,109 I'm so excited about that. So, now I'm done. Go ahead, Kirk -93 +92 00:03:54,109 --> 00:03:56,325 [chuckles]. -94 +93 00:03:57,211 --> 00:04:00,028 Kirk: By so many thoughts, the thought of a trailer for a -95 +94 00:04:00,028 --> 00:04:02,845 Monkey -96 +95 00:04:02,846 --> 00:04:04,406 Island, it's so strange. It looks like the strangest game in -97 -00:04:04,406 --> 00:04:05,966 -the - -98 -00:04:05,966 --> 00:04:07,660 -world. And then I said, "Of +96 +00:04:04,406 --> 00:04:07,660 +the world. And then I said, "Of course, Bekah likes this. [Bekah -99 +97 00:04:07,660 --> 00:04:09,354 laughs] You know, craps." -100 +98 00:04:10,436 --> 00:04:17,906 Games that I liked as a child is you're-not-leaving-this-table- -101 +99 00:04:17,906 --> 00:04:21,985 until-you-eat-these-vegetables- jokes-on-you. I have a book. A -102 +100 00:04:21,985 --> 00:04:26,755 game. Because me and my mom played that a lot. And I won a -103 +101 00:04:26,755 --> 00:04:28,867 lot, like, "Just get to finish your food," and I'm like, "I'm -104 +102 00:04:28,867 --> 00:04:30,979 just -105 +103 00:04:30,980 --> 00:04:34,085 gonna read until we get bored, and I'm gonna go [chuckles]". -106 +104 00:04:34,085 --> 00:04:37,190 Okay. -107 +105 00:04:37,290 --> 00:04:38,100 Bekah: [Chuckles] It's not a real game. -108 +106 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,281 Kirk: It's a real game, and I'm the champion. Board games, -109 +107 00:04:43,670 --> 00:04:45,950 -Risk is -- I know a lot of -people hate Risk. I love Risk. +Risk is-- I know a lot of people +hate Risk. I love Risk. -110 +108 00:04:45,950 --> 00:04:48,230 I'm super -111 +109 00:04:48,230 --> 00:04:51,470 into roll those dice, fighting -those armies, you know? I own -- +those armies, you know? I own-- -112 +110 00:04:51,470 --> 00:04:54,710 I -113 +111 00:04:54,711 --> 00:04:57,463 -love -- I got beaten up at Risk +love-- I got beaten up at Risk by, like, an 86 year old woman. -114 +112 00:04:57,463 --> 00:05:00,215 And I sort -115 +113 00:05:00,216 --> 00:05:02,390 of like dedicated six months of my life [chuckles] to revenge on -116 +114 00:05:02,390 --> 00:05:04,564 the board -117 +115 00:05:04,565 --> 00:05:12,485 -game, not -- you know. So, Risk +game, not-- you know. So, Risk is pretty big ... computer -118 +116 00:05:12,485 --> 00:05:15,538 -games? There's this really -- +games? There's this really-- this is computer game called DX -119 +117 00:05:15,538 --> 00:05:18,591 Ball. And -120 +118 00:05:18,591 --> 00:05:20,225 it's basically just like glorified, like, Pong. It was -121 +119 00:05:20,225 --> 00:05:21,859 like -122 +120 00:05:21,860 --> 00:05:24,335 super Pong. And if I, like, get 200 levels, there were -123 +121 00:05:24,335 --> 00:05:26,810 explosions and -124 +122 00:05:27,290 --> 00:05:29,630 -it was like a real -- there's a +it was like a real-- there's a lot going on there. I really -125 +123 00:05:29,630 --> 00:05:31,970 liked that. -126 +124 00:05:32,271 --> 00:05:35,271 That was really fun. And I also remember at the age of seven, my -127 +125 00:05:35,271 --> 00:05:38,271 mom -128 +126 00:05:38,271 --> 00:05:41,750 -got me like a Reader Rabbit. +got me, like, a Reader Rabbit. Learn math on the computer CD -129 +127 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,990 cuz that seemed like a great idea. And it immediately crashed -130 +128 00:05:44,990 --> 00:05:47,015 -our computer and it like never +our computer and it, like, never turned back on. So, I don't know -131 +129 00:05:47,015 --> 00:05:49,040 what the -132 +130 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,230 life lesson there is. Don't [unintelligible]- -133 +131 00:05:51,350 --> 00:05:52,850 Bekah: There's a lot of Reader Rabbit. -134 +132 00:05:53,540 --> 00:05:56,687 Kirk: -your children arithmetic. Those are my answers. -135 +133 00:05:57,757 --> 00:05:59,347 -Dan: I -- all right. I'm gonna -add -- I'm having an addict- an +Dan: I-- all right. I'm gonna +add-- I'm having an addict- an -136 +134 00:05:59,347 --> 00:06:00,937 -addition. I thought about -- +addition. I thought about-- -137 +135 00:06:01,237 --> 00:06:03,158 I remembered Wolfenstein on a computer game. -138 +136 00:06:03,163 --> 00:06:03,913 -Bekah: Yeah -- no. You're not +Bekah: Yeah, no. You're not allowed. -139 +137 00:06:04,072 --> 00:06:04,673 Dan: Yeah. Wolfenstein is awesome. -140 +138 00:06:04,692 --> 00:06:06,372 Bekah: Sorry. Take it back. You're done. -141 +139 00:06:06,817 --> 00:06:07,867 Dan: So I played that lot. -142 +140 00:06:08,098 --> 00:06:09,627 Kirk: Out of the things, you fire this? [??] -143 -00:06:10,052 --> 00:06:11,612 +141 +00:06:10,052 --> 00:06:13,172 Bekah: Yeah. Well, Dan's in trouble, so he doesn't get all -144 -00:06:11,612 --> 00:06:13,172 -of - -145 +142 00:06:13,173 --> 00:06:13,174 -the things [laughs]. +of the things [laughs]. -146 +143 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:14,000 Dan: In trouble [chuckles]. -147 +144 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:16,000 Bekah: Being punished. -148 +145 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,000 Dan: For what? -149 +146 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:18,000 Bekah: I won [chuckles]. -150 +147 00:06:18,550 --> 00:06:20,259 Dan: I don't even know what I did. -151 +148 00:06:21,949 --> 00:06:22,889 Kirk: Well, I don't really swift -the -- you know, a no old game +the-- you know, a no old game -152 +149 00:06:22,889 --> 00:06:23,829 of Othello or something. -153 +150 00:06:24,029 --> 00:06:27,034 Dan: Othello was pretty cool too. I liked the artists. I -154 +151 00:06:27,034 --> 00:06:30,039 don't -155 +152 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:31,809 know if they all do, but ours had like a felt boarders, you -156 +153 00:06:31,809 --> 00:06:33,578 know? -157 +154 00:06:33,579 --> 00:06:33,579 Bekah: Yeah. -158 +155 00:06:33,730 --> 00:06:35,945 Dan: Okay. Yeah. That's cool. I don't know. I appreciate that it -159 +156 00:06:35,945 --> 00:06:38,160 -had -- oh, I thought I had a- I +had-- oh, I thought I had a- I had a really nice tactical feel -160 -00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,375 -to it - -161 -00:06:40,375 --> 00:06:41,944 -that the pieces in the- in the -felt and stuff. +157 +00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,944 +to it that the pieces in the- in +the felt and stuff. -162 +158 00:06:42,805 --> 00:06:44,529 Bekah: Yeah. I started playing it with my 12-year-old, but -163 +159 00:06:44,529 --> 00:06:46,253 then, -164 -00:06:46,254 --> 00:06:48,654 +160 +00:06:46,254 --> 00:06:47,454 like, one of the other kids got -ahold of it. And so now we don't +ahold of it. And so now, we -165 +161 +00:06:47,454 --> 00:06:48,654 +don't + +162 00:06:48,654 --> 00:06:53,334 -have all of the chips. So from --- Backgammon. I like Backgammon +have all of the chips. So from-- +Backgammon. I like Backgammon -166 +163 00:06:53,334 --> 00:06:54,745 too. I like games. -167 +164 00:06:54,954 --> 00:06:56,394 Dan: I never learned how to play Backgammon. -168 +165 00:06:57,129 --> 00:06:59,500 Kirk: I had one of those chess boards. It was like chess on top -169 +166 00:06:59,500 --> 00:07:01,435 -and then back-end low. So below -was just like -- it was like in - -170 -00:07:01,435 --> 00:07:03,370 -the +and then back-end low. So, below +was just like-- it was like in -171 -00:07:03,370 --> 00:07:06,879 -"Lion King". Like, just don't go -there cuz it's bad. +167 +00:07:01,435 --> 00:07:06,879 +the "Lion King". Like, just +don't go there cuz it's bad. -172 +168 00:07:08,064 --> 00:07:08,064 Dan: [Laughs] Yeah. Yeah, same. -173 +169 00:07:08,064 --> 00:07:09,000 Bekah: The dad will die [chuckles]. -174 +170 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:10,207 -Dan: I played the -- I played +Dan: I played the-- I played chess a lot, and never played -175 -00:07:10,207 --> 00:07:11,414 -Backgammon, - -176 -00:07:11,415 --> 00:07:13,134 -and never ... I dunno. I -- +171 +00:07:10,207 --> 00:07:13,134 +Backgammon, and never ... I +dunno. I-- -177 +172 00:07:13,165 --> 00:07:14,935 Bekah: We have very cool Backgammon suit- it was like a -178 +173 00:07:14,935 --> 00:07:16,405 suitcase. It looked like a small -suitcase and then we were like - -179 -00:07:16,405 --> 00:07:17,875 -pop +suitcase, and then we were, -180 -00:07:17,875 --> 00:07:19,225 -open. It was very nice. +174 +00:07:16,405 --> 00:07:19,225 +like, pop open. It was very +nice. -181 +175 00:07:20,747 --> 00:07:23,071 Kirk: I played to defeat my -father. Like, I only -- I found +father. Like, I only-- I found -182 +176 00:07:23,071 --> 00:07:25,395 the game. I pressed -183 +177 00:07:25,396 --> 00:07:31,007 -him every day for months and he +him every day for months, and he would beat me every day. And so -184 +178 00:07:31,007 --> 00:07:33,331 the day I beat him, and then ... -it was like the happiest day of +it was, like, the happiest day -185 +179 00:07:33,331 --> 00:07:35,655 -my +of my -186 +180 00:07:35,656 --> 00:07:37,669 -life [chuckles]. And then we +life [chuckles]. And then, we kept playing until it was pretty -187 +181 00:07:37,669 --> 00:07:39,682 even who -188 +182 00:07:39,682 --> 00:07:41,541 -would win. And then he was like, -"I'm not playing anymore - -189 -00:07:41,541 --> 00:07:43,400 -[laughs]." The +would win. And then, he was +like, "I'm not playing anymore -190 -00:07:43,401 --> 00:07:46,956 -whole point of being here is it -I beat you at being +183 +00:07:41,541 --> 00:07:46,956 +[laughs]." The whole point of +being here is it-- I beat you -191 +184 00:07:46,956 --> 00:07:50,511 -[unintelligible] or all the way -around? And that's +at being [unintelligible] or all +the way around? And that's -192 +185 00:07:50,512 --> 00:07:52,836 pretty much the last time I played chess. I did what I set -193 +186 00:07:52,836 --> 00:07:55,160 out to accomplish. -194 +187 00:07:56,721 --> 00:07:59,091 -Bekah: Okay. But, we are not -here to talk about games the +Bekah: Okay. But we are not here +to talk about games the -195 +188 00:07:59,091 --> 00:08:01,461 entire -196 +189 00:08:01,461 --> 00:08:04,034 time, although that might be a fun episode [chuckles]. So, we -197 +190 00:08:04,034 --> 00:08:06,607 put it out -198 +191 00:08:06,607 --> 00:08:09,336 there to the Virtual Coffee community, what they wanted to -199 +192 00:08:09,336 --> 00:08:13,716 hear about. And I think they wanted to hear about what we had -200 +193 00:08:13,716 --> 00:08:17,497 as our back pocket topic anyway. -So, today we're gonna be +So, today, we're gonna be -201 +194 00:08:17,497 --> 00:08:20,826 talking about our decision to pause membership with Virtual -202 +195 00:08:20,826 --> 00:08:25,596 Coffee, the things that we've -been doing and what we see for +been doing, and what we see for -203 +196 00:08:25,596 --> 00:08:27,261 the future. So, Kirk, do you wanna give a little bit of a -204 -00:08:27,261 --> 00:08:28,926 -recap - -205 -00:08:29,016 --> 00:08:30,427 -of where we're at? +197 +00:08:27,261 --> 00:08:30,427 +recap of where we're at? -206 +198 00:08:31,622 --> 00:08:36,062 Kirk: Yeah. I think how it can -be sort of like summing up +be-- sort of like summing up -207 +199 00:08:36,062 --> 00:08:38,956 of the- the concise way. -Membership -- incoming members - -208 -00:08:38,956 --> 00:08:41,850 -has +Membership-- incoming members -209 -00:08:41,851 --> 00:08:46,892 -been paused with the Virtual +200 +00:08:38,956 --> 00:08:46,892 +has been paused with the Virtual Coffee community for a couple of -210 +201 00:08:46,892 --> 00:08:54,062 -months now. This -- the decision +months now. This-- the decision was not made lightly. We spent a -211 +202 00:08:54,062 --> 00:08:55,187 lot of time thinking about it and trying to figure out if -212 +203 00:08:55,187 --> 00:08:56,312 -there was +there was, -213 +204 00:08:56,312 --> 00:09:00,601 -like another way to not have to +like, another way to not have to do that, to sort of like get the -214 -00:09:00,601 --> 00:09:06,662 -desired outcomes. But I think we -just realized, the only way we +205 +00:09:00,601 --> 00:09:03,631 +desired outcomes. But I think, +we just realized, the only way -215 +206 +00:09:03,631 --> 00:09:06,661 +we + +207 00:09:06,662 --> 00:09:09,626 were gonna sort of keep things okay for our volunteers, and -216 +208 00:09:09,626 --> 00:09:12,590 also -217 -00:09:12,591 --> 00:09:16,971 -just like give us the bandwidth -to make things better for +209 +00:09:12,591 --> 00:09:14,781 +just, like, give us the +bandwidth to make things better -218 +210 +00:09:14,781 --> 00:09:16,971 +for + +211 00:09:16,971 --> 00:09:19,266 incoming members, was to take a pause, right? And it's- it's -219 +212 00:09:19,266 --> 00:09:21,561 like one -220 -00:09:21,562 --> 00:09:25,072 -of those real -- you know, -sometimes like you just have to +213 +00:09:21,562 --> 00:09:23,317 +of those real-- you know, +sometimes, like, you just have -221 +214 +00:09:23,317 --> 00:09:25,072 +to + +215 00:09:25,162 --> 00:09:26,496 make priorities when you do not have internet resources. And -222 +216 00:09:26,496 --> 00:09:27,830 that -223 +217 00:09:27,831 --> 00:09:31,552 was a decision we made, and I -think it was the right one. I +think, it was the right one. I -224 +218 00:09:31,552 --> 00:09:34,011 -think -- we think it was the +think-- we think it was the right one. As it's given us a -225 +219 00:09:34,011 --> 00:09:36,470 lot of space to -226 +220 00:09:36,471 --> 00:09:38,473 really go with like, "Hey, when we open back up, what do we -227 +221 00:09:38,473 --> 00:09:40,475 wanna -228 +222 00:09:40,476 --> 00:09:43,356 do? What do we want this to be?" Think back to what our -229 +223 00:09:43,356 --> 00:09:46,596 -mission is. Think back to like +mission is. Think back to, like, what's working well, what's not -230 +224 00:09:46,596 --> 00:09:50,616 working well, how can we empower the parts that are, like, really -231 +225 00:09:50,616 --> 00:09:54,456 valuable for people, one of the stress points or the pain points -232 +226 00:09:54,456 --> 00:09:58,836 that we can, like, reduce. So, I think that's been good. And I -233 -00:09:58,836 --> 00:10:03,736 -guess there's a little bit there -about having the ability to do +227 +00:09:58,836 --> 00:10:01,286 +guess, there's a little bit +there about having the ability -234 +228 +00:10:01,286 --> 00:10:03,736 +to do + +229 00:10:03,736 --> 00:10:08,206 -that type of thing, being just -like a friendly community, but +that type of thing, being just, +like, a friendly community but -235 +230 00:10:08,206 --> 00:10:10,676 also, you know, not- not a service or a product or -236 +231 00:10:10,676 --> 00:10:13,146 something. It- it makes -237 -00:10:13,147 --> 00:10:16,147 +232 +00:10:13,147 --> 00:10:14,647 it easier for us to say like, -"Yeah. We can- we can still just +"Yeah. We can- we can still -238 -00:10:16,147 --> 00:10:17,957 -like be us for a little bit -before we start be in -- out of +233 +00:10:14,647 --> 00:10:16,147 +just, -239 -00:10:17,957 --> 00:10:19,767 -cast, be with +234 +00:10:16,147 --> 00:10:17,957 +like, be us for a little bit +before we start be in-- out of -240 -00:10:19,767 --> 00:10:20,256 -people again." +235 +00:10:17,957 --> 00:10:20,256 +cast, be with people again." -241 +236 00:10:22,246 --> 00:10:24,346 -Bekah: Yeah. And I think during +Bekah: Yeah. And I think, during the time, right, after we -242 +237 00:10:24,346 --> 00:10:26,446 decided -243 +238 00:10:26,447 --> 00:10:29,086 to pause membership, we were nominated for most welcoming, -244 +239 00:10:29,356 --> 00:10:32,866 -new -- most welcoming developer +new-- most welcoming developer community, which we did win -245 +240 00:10:32,927 --> 00:10:37,907 at the DevRel Award, which was really fun. But I- I know that -246 +241 00:10:37,907 --> 00:10:39,409 that was, you know, there- there's probably a hesitancy, -247 +242 00:10:39,409 --> 00:10:40,911 like, "How -248 +243 00:10:40,912 --> 00:10:44,211 can you be the most welcoming community and not be having new -249 +244 00:10:44,211 --> 00:10:49,432 members at this point?" And for me, I felt like it further -250 +245 00:10:50,106 --> 00:10:52,807 ensured that we are a welcoming community because we're taking -251 +246 00:10:52,807 --> 00:10:54,756 the time to figure out how we can best welcome people, how we -252 +247 00:10:54,756 --> 00:10:56,705 can -253 +248 00:10:56,706 --> 00:11:02,106 continue to welcome our existing members. And in the last year, -254 +249 00:11:02,106 --> 00:11:04,297 I've talked to a lot of different, small community -255 +250 00:11:04,297 --> 00:11:06,321 builders, and I've seen them, you know, fold or say like, -256 +251 00:11:06,321 --> 00:11:08,345 "Hey, -257 +252 00:11:08,677 --> 00:11:11,024 we're gonna stop doing this because we're burnt out and -258 +253 00:11:11,024 --> 00:11:13,371 we're -259 +254 00:11:13,371 --> 00:11:15,912 just gonna send everybody to Virtual Coffee. And it's- it's -260 +255 00:11:15,922 --> 00:11:19,432 like a house of cards, right? -Like, one small community folds +Like, one small community folds, -261 +256 00:11:19,491 --> 00:11:21,201 and then all of the people go to the next small community, into -262 -00:11:21,201 --> 00:11:22,911 -the - -263 -00:11:22,912 --> 00:11:25,701 -next. And so, we wanted to make -sure that- that we weren't +257 +00:11:21,201 --> 00:11:25,701 +the next. And so, we wanted to +make sure that- that we weren't -264 +258 00:11:25,701 --> 00:11:30,621 falling with- with those other small communities, which I- -265 +259 00:11:30,621 --> 00:11:32,481 I don't think that we felt that -we were, but you can definitely +we were. But you can definitely -266 +260 00:11:32,481 --> 00:11:34,341 see -267 +261 00:11:34,341 --> 00:11:36,689 that coming down the line. So, for us, it was super important -268 +262 00:11:36,689 --> 00:11:39,037 to be -269 +263 00:11:39,037 --> 00:11:43,267 able to think through all of these processes, exactly like -270 +264 00:11:43,267 --> 00:11:45,876 what Kirk said, like, you know, what makes Virtual Coffee -271 +265 00:11:45,876 --> 00:11:49,417 special? How do we preserve that intimacy and how do we scale -272 +266 00:11:49,417 --> 00:11:49,746 that? -273 +267 00:11:50,547 --> 00:11:51,641 Dan: Yeah. I don't really have anything to add. I mean, you -274 +268 00:11:51,641 --> 00:11:52,735 both- you both -275 +269 00:11:52,767 --> 00:11:55,647 kind of hit all the- all the points that we were thinking -276 +270 00:11:55,647 --> 00:11:57,897 -about it, you know? And I'm -- +about it, you know? And I'm-- our- our- our growth chart or -277 +271 00:11:57,897 --> 00:12:00,147 -whatever. We +whatever—we -278 +272 00:12:00,147 --> 00:12:01,571 don't actually have growth chart -[laughs], but like, you know, +[laughs]—but, like, you know, -279 +273 00:12:01,571 --> 00:12:02,995 -you- you can just -- +you- you can just-- -280 +274 00:12:02,996 --> 00:12:04,241 when you're in the community, you can get a sense of it. And -281 +275 00:12:04,241 --> 00:12:05,486 -it's -- +it's-- -282 +276 00:12:05,517 --> 00:12:10,192 you know, it- it was increasing -rapidly, you know, and -- which +rapidly, you know, and-- which -283 +277 00:12:10,192 --> 00:12:11,886 is cool, obviously, in one- in one part. And we- we all very -284 +278 00:12:11,886 --> 00:12:13,580 much -285 +279 00:12:13,581 --> 00:12:17,001 want more people to be joining again. Like, we're all, I think, -286 +280 00:12:17,001 --> 00:12:19,552 very excited about getting back to the place where we can open -287 +281 00:12:19,552 --> 00:12:23,631 membership again. And that's just a matter of building up -288 +282 00:12:23,631 --> 00:12:26,657 our ... you know, different resources, building up our -289 +283 00:12:26,657 --> 00:12:28,157 processes, and- and figuring out some- some paths for, you know, -290 +284 00:12:28,157 --> 00:12:29,657 how we wanna -291 +285 00:12:29,657 --> 00:12:35,986 -handle things. We have -- just +handle things. We have-- just recently, we took two -292 +286 00:12:35,986 --> 00:12:37,981 steps. We- we did one thing where we were able to highlight -293 -00:12:37,981 --> 00:12:39,976 -our - -294 -00:12:39,976 --> 00:12:43,067 -members that are, you know, +287 +00:12:37,981 --> 00:12:43,067 +our members that are, you know, giving back to the community by -295 +288 00:12:43,157 --> 00:12:44,417 volunteering and in leadership positions or- or just helping -296 +289 00:12:44,417 --> 00:12:45,677 out in -297 +290 00:12:45,677 --> 00:12:48,947 different roles on our website. So, on virtualcoffee.io/members -298 +291 00:12:48,947 --> 00:12:55,162 -now, anybody who's -- who has -... you know, who's- +now, anybody who's-- who has ... +you know, who's- -299 +292 00:12:55,162 --> 00:12:56,451 who's actively helping with the community has- has a little tag, -300 -00:12:56,451 --> 00:12:57,740 -you - -301 -00:12:57,741 --> 00:13:00,201 -know, based on what they're -doing. Things like room leaders, +293 +00:12:56,451 --> 00:13:00,201 +you know, based on what they're +doing. Things like room leaders -302 +294 00:13:00,231 --> 00:13:03,111 and note takers, and, you know, -the -- our-our monthly challenge +the-- our-our monthly challenge -303 +295 00:13:03,111 --> 00:13:05,991 team, -304 +296 00:13:06,022 --> 00:13:10,971 -and everybody else. And then +and everybody else. And then, after that, we have been working -305 +297 00:13:10,971 --> 00:13:13,792 last a little bit ... I dunno, the last couple months, I guess, -306 +298 00:13:13,822 --> 00:13:20,371 on describing better ways that people can- can join to help. -307 +299 00:13:20,402 --> 00:13:22,441 Because we've been kind of just grabbing people [laughs], -308 +300 00:13:22,441 --> 00:13:24,480 mostly, to- to -309 -00:13:24,481 --> 00:13:27,991 -help. And they've been, you know --- everybody has been amazing. +301 +00:13:24,481 --> 00:13:26,236 +help. And they've been-- you +know, everybody has been -310 +302 +00:13:26,236 --> 00:13:27,991 +amazing. + +303 00:13:28,022 --> 00:13:29,626 But to support more and more -people, like, we need -- like, - -311 -00:13:29,626 --> 00:13:31,230 -if +people, like, we need-- like, -312 -00:13:31,231 --> 00:13:35,611 -we're going to scale, the +304 +00:13:29,626 --> 00:13:35,611 +if we're going to scale, the volunteers need to scale first -313 +305 00:13:35,672 --> 00:13:38,401 before the- before the members. -Do -- you know, the- the -- if +Do-- you know, the- the-- if -314 +306 00:13:38,401 --> 00:13:41,130 you just take -315 +307 00:13:41,131 --> 00:13:46,537 our- our coffee meetings, for example, we have awesome -316 +308 00:13:46,537 --> 00:13:50,856 team of room leaders and note -takers, and they do a great job, +takers, and they do a great job. -317 +309 00:13:50,917 --> 00:13:54,157 -but there's a limited amount of -them, right? And so, that means +But there's a limited amount of +them, right? And so, that means, -318 +310 00:13:54,157 --> 00:13:56,677 there's a limited amount of people that we can actually have -319 +311 00:13:56,677 --> 00:13:59,917 at the meetings. And it's not that high [laughs], honestly. -320 +312 00:13:59,917 --> 00:14:03,157 And so, -321 +313 00:14:03,427 --> 00:14:06,547 -the -- so, what we wanted to do, +the-- so, what we wanted to do-- okay. How do we get more room -322 +314 00:14:06,547 --> 00:14:08,946 -leaders and- and also hosts? So -up until ... yesterday -- so, +leaders and- and also hosts? So, +up until ... yesterday-- so, -323 +315 00:14:08,946 --> 00:14:11,345 we're -324 +316 00:14:11,346 --> 00:14:13,656 recording on- on Friday the -13th, and so yesterday was the - -325 -00:14:13,656 --> 00:14:15,966 -first +13th. And so, yesterday was the -326 -00:14:15,966 --> 00:14:17,721 -day that we had -- not a -maintainer. Host, one of our +317 +00:14:13,656 --> 00:14:17,721 +first day that we had-- not a +maintainer-- host, one of our -327 +318 00:14:17,721 --> 00:14:19,476 coffees. -328 +319 00:14:19,476 --> 00:14:19,476 Bekah: MC. -329 +320 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,513 Dan: MC. Sorry. I- I say host. -See, this is why -- it's a- it's +See, this is why-- it's a- it's -330 +321 00:14:22,513 --> 00:14:25,026 -a bad name for it. But- but -like, the -- +a bad name for it. But- but, +like, the-- -331 +322 00:14:25,032 --> 00:14:26,172 Bekah: We're also working on titles [laughs]. -332 +323 00:14:26,287 --> 00:14:27,277 Dan: Right. We're working on -titles. But what I mean is, +titles. But what I mean is-- -333 +324 00:14:27,277 --> 00:14:28,267 yeah, -334 +325 00:14:28,297 --> 00:14:32,407 MC. I-I-I always called host in my head cuz that's what I -335 +326 00:14:32,407 --> 00:14:34,956 think of, but the person who's running the coffee meeting, -336 +327 00:14:35,147 --> 00:14:37,061 that- that is talking to everybody. And- and it was Suze, -337 +328 00:14:37,061 --> 00:14:38,975 and she did -338 +329 00:14:38,976 --> 00:14:42,096 an awesome job. But that- that sort of thing is we can't -339 +330 00:14:42,096 --> 00:14:45,111 just ... we- we- we feel very strongly that we want these to -340 +331 00:14:45,111 --> 00:14:48,126 be good -341 +332 00:14:48,126 --> 00:14:50,181 experiences, and they always -are. But they -- that- that- +are. But they-- that- that-- -342 +333 00:14:50,181 --> 00:14:52,236 that's because we -343 +334 00:14:52,236 --> 00:14:55,956 put a lot of thought into the MC stuff, and the room leaders, -344 +335 00:14:55,956 --> 00:14:57,261 -and all -- everything like that. +and all-- everything like that. And so, we need to make sure -345 +336 00:14:57,261 --> 00:14:58,566 that people -346 +337 00:14:58,567 --> 00:15:03,532 are supported and have what they need to, you know, -347 +338 00:15:03,532 --> 00:15:05,287 bring good- good experiences to -all the other people. And so -- +all the other people. And so-- -348 +339 00:15:05,287 --> 00:15:07,042 as sort of -349 +340 00:15:07,042 --> 00:15:09,172 like a top-down scaling situation [chuckles] for us. And -350 +341 00:15:09,172 --> 00:15:11,302 so, that's one of -351 +342 00:15:11,302 --> 00:15:13,057 the, like, big reasons we needed -to -- we- we felt we- we should- +to-- we- we felt we- we should- -352 +343 00:15:13,057 --> 00:15:14,812 we should -353 +344 00:15:14,812 --> 00:15:17,572 be pausing membership was- was -that. And it's been -- we've +that. And it's been-- we've -354 +345 00:15:17,572 --> 00:15:22,042 gotten a lot of good responses from people. Yeah. I -355 +346 00:15:22,042 --> 00:15:22,956 don't know if I actually said this out loud [chuckles], but we -356 +347 00:15:22,956 --> 00:15:23,870 made some- -357 +348 00:15:24,231 --> 00:15:26,676 -some ... like documents, and +some ... like, documents, and forms, and stuffs to- to make it -358 +349 00:15:26,676 --> 00:15:29,121 easier -359 +350 00:15:29,121 --> 00:15:31,806 for people to- to- to volunteer -for us and -- for Virtual +for us and-- for Virtual -360 +351 00:15:31,806 --> 00:15:34,491 Coffee. So, that was -361 +352 00:15:34,491 --> 00:15:35,526 -the- that was the -- our next +the- that was the-- our next step. And that's been going -362 +353 00:15:35,526 --> 00:15:36,561 well. I don't know. -363 +354 00:15:37,062 --> 00:15:39,162 Bekah: And I think that makes it easier for us. Because like you -364 +355 00:15:39,162 --> 00:15:40,482 said before, there wasn't a -clear process, and even we'd +clear process. And even we'd -365 +356 00:15:40,482 --> 00:15:41,802 have -366 +357 00:15:41,802 --> 00:15:43,737 members like, "Oh, I wanna help. -How can I help?" And so much of +How can I help?" And so much -367 +358 00:15:43,737 --> 00:15:45,672 --- +of-- -368 +359 00:15:45,731 --> 00:15:47,666 because Virtual Coffee was not an intentionally planned -369 +360 00:15:47,666 --> 00:15:49,601 community, -370 -00:15:49,601 --> 00:15:52,511 -it's always been like keeping up -with the needs of the community, +361 +00:15:49,601 --> 00:15:51,056 +it's always been, like, keeping +up with the needs of the -371 +362 +00:15:51,056 --> 00:15:52,511 +community, + +363 00:15:52,942 --> 00:15:55,341 the excitement of the community, and doing all these cool and fun -372 +364 00:15:55,341 --> 00:15:58,341 -things. And I think we've done a -pretty good job of keeping up +things. And I think, we've done +a pretty good job of keeping up -373 +365 00:15:58,341 --> 00:16:02,991 -with processes, but things like -that, like what- what do we +with processes. But things like +that, like, what- "what do we -374 +366 00:16:02,991 --> 00:16:06,142 -need help with? And I don't +need help with?" and I don't think that's something that's -375 +367 00:16:06,172 --> 00:16:09,951 particularly a Virtual Coffee problem. I think that anybody -376 +368 00:16:09,951 --> 00:16:12,103 who's running a community, if- if you don't have things set up, -377 +369 00:16:12,103 --> 00:16:14,255 -you -- +you-- -378 +370 00:16:14,346 --> 00:16:16,896 like, you know that you need help [chuckles], but it's like, -379 +371 00:16:16,896 --> 00:16:19,446 "How do I get -380 +372 00:16:19,447 --> 00:16:22,986 -people -- how do I onboard them? +people-- how do I onboard them? What do- what do I really need -381 +373 00:16:22,986 --> 00:16:26,106 here?" And so, like, pausing to take the time to think through -382 +374 00:16:26,317 --> 00:16:28,866 -what do I need, what are the +"what do I need, what are the processes that need to be -383 +375 00:16:28,866 --> 00:16:31,447 -updated, those are the things +updated", those are the things that are going to help you to -384 +376 00:16:31,447 --> 00:16:35,376 scale down the road because it's set up. I can bring in a new, -385 +377 00:16:35,557 --> 00:16:40,162 like, four new note takers this morning. I added to our -386 +378 00:16:40,162 --> 00:16:41,842 -organization and set them up +organization, and set them up with the documentation that they -387 +379 00:16:41,842 --> 00:16:43,522 need, -388 +380 00:16:43,522 --> 00:16:47,331 and walk through the processes. -And I've -- we've got a couple +And I've-- we've got a couple -389 +381 00:16:47,331 --> 00:16:50,662 more volunteers that I reached out to as well, but all -390 +382 00:16:50,662 --> 00:16:52,297 of that needed to be set up in -advance. So when somebody says, +advance. So, when somebody says, -391 +383 00:16:52,297 --> 00:16:53,932 "I -392 +384 00:16:53,932 --> 00:16:57,621 would like to help, where can I help?" there's a place to send -393 +385 00:16:57,621 --> 00:16:58,101 them to. -394 -00:16:58,649 --> 00:17:00,839 -Dan: Yeah. And like -- oh, I was -just gonna say, at the -- - -395 -00:17:00,839 --> 00:17:03,029 -having- +386 +00:16:58,649 --> 00:17:03,029 +Dan: Yeah. And, like-- oh, I was +just gonna say, at the-- having- -396 +387 00:17:03,029 --> 00:17:04,552 having more people helps do -things, like we've- we've talked +things, like, we've- we've -397 +388 00:17:04,552 --> 00:17:06,075 -about adding +talked about adding -398 +389 00:17:06,134 --> 00:17:09,345 a day for coffees, right? But we -can't -- you know, up until now, +can't-- you know, up until now, -399 +390 00:17:09,634 --> 00:17:11,259 we've- we've only had our -maintainers being -- kind of +maintainers being kind of -400 +391 00:17:11,259 --> 00:17:12,884 controlling -401 +392 00:17:12,884 --> 00:17:14,624 -those -- that -- dealing MC -first for these events. And +those-- that-- dealing MC first +for these events, and-- -402 +393 00:17:14,624 --> 00:17:16,364 while we're- -403 +394 00:17:16,365 --> 00:17:20,055 we're just sort of expect it in --- as it is. So, adding- +as it is. So, adding- -404 +395 00:17:20,805 --> 00:17:24,045 -adding them — see, like, Suze — -is a big step for us. And, you +adding them—see, like, Suze—is a +big step for us. And, you -405 +396 00:17:24,045 --> 00:17:25,994 know, we don't wanna just do it -willy-nilly. So, like -- just +willy-nilly. So, like-- just -406 +397 00:17:25,994 --> 00:17:27,943 like -407 +398 00:17:27,944 --> 00:17:30,525 -Bekah was saying this, having +Bekah was saying, this-- having all that stuff written down and -408 +399 00:17:30,525 --> 00:17:33,404 having clear paths for people, it's turned out very -409 +400 00:17:33,404 --> 00:17:33,795 important [chuckles]. -410 +401 00:17:35,819 --> 00:17:37,454 Bekah: Yeah. And we sent out a community survey or- or we had -411 +402 00:17:37,454 --> 00:17:39,089 the -412 +403 00:17:39,089 --> 00:17:41,460 community survey that we were posting in Slack and during our -413 +404 00:17:41,460 --> 00:17:45,299 Virtual Coffee meetings for a couple of weeks to get feedback -414 +405 00:17:45,299 --> 00:17:47,234 from the community. And so, -we're also taking like, what- +we're also taking, like, what- -415 +406 00:17:47,234 --> 00:17:49,169 what does -416 +407 00:17:49,170 --> 00:17:52,349 the community value? So, we know that there are- are things that -417 +408 00:17:52,349 --> 00:17:55,619 -everybody values, but like +everybody values. But, like, really getting that down, having -418 +409 00:17:55,619 --> 00:17:58,439 conversations, having maintainers Q&As allows us to -419 -00:17:58,439 --> 00:18:01,259 -get - -420 -00:18:01,259 --> 00:18:03,854 -feedback and really think +410 +00:17:58,439 --> 00:18:06,450 +get feedback and really think through what we're- we're doing. -421 -00:18:03,854 --> 00:18:06,449 -Kirk, - -422 +411 00:18:06,450 --> 00:18:08,910 -do you wanna talk a little bit -about the results of those +Kirk, do you wanna talk a little +bit about the results of those -423 +412 00:18:08,910 --> 00:18:10,690 -surveys? Some of the key +surveys, some of the key takeaways that we had? -424 -00:18:12,585 --> 00:18:13,845 +413 +00:18:12,585 --> 00:18:15,105 Kirk: Yeah. Well, in the sort of like overarching ourselves that -425 -00:18:13,845 --> 00:18:15,105 -we - -426 +414 00:18:15,105 --> 00:18:20,355 -had, first of all, generally +we had, first of all, generally positive responses, which is -427 +415 00:18:20,355 --> 00:18:24,555 -nice. I don't know. It's just +nice-- I don't know. It's just nice to not be told, like, "You -428 +416 00:18:24,555 --> 00:18:27,899 suck [laughs]," in another time [??]. So, mostly positive. A lot -429 +417 00:18:27,899 --> 00:18:31,243 -of it was like existing +of it was, like, existing -430 +418 00:18:31,244 --> 00:18:32,729 -systems that people want, maybe -like a little bit more, you +systems that people want. Maybe, +like, a little bit more, you -431 +419 00:18:32,729 --> 00:18:34,214 know? -432 +420 00:18:34,785 --> 00:18:37,964 -And I think a lot of it was -maybe just like a little more +And I think a lot of it was-- +maybe just, like, a little more -433 +421 00:18:37,964 --> 00:18:40,307 -like fidelity and we've talked +like fidelity, and we've talked about this. Like, "If I wanna -434 +422 00:18:40,307 --> 00:18:42,650 volunteer, -435 +423 00:18:42,829 --> 00:18:44,449 how do I do that?" So, there are -a lot of people who weren't like +a lot of people who weren't, -436 +424 00:18:44,449 --> 00:18:46,069 --- +like-- -437 +425 00:18:46,069 --> 00:18:47,434 or they're new, or they're still -sort of getting into things +sort of getting into things, -438 +426 00:18:47,434 --> 00:18:48,799 like, -439 +427 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:50,374 "How do I do more?" And making that really, really transparent -440 -00:18:50,374 --> 00:18:51,949 -with - -441 -00:18:51,950 --> 00:18:54,364 -people, with something that +428 +00:18:50,374 --> 00:18:54,364 +with people, with something that seemed to resonate. Right now, -442 +429 00:18:54,364 --> 00:18:56,778 we have a -443 +430 00:18:56,779 --> 00:19:02,329 few sort of like key events that happen in the community. We have -444 +431 00:19:02,390 --> 00:19:07,085 our Lunch & Learns, we have the Lightning Talks, but we also -445 +432 00:19:07,085 --> 00:19:08,404 -have -- I guess this concept -that wouldn't be about -- like, +have-- I guess this concept that +wouldn't be about-- like, -446 +433 00:19:08,404 --> 00:19:09,723 this -447 +434 00:19:09,755 --> 00:19:11,944 Coffee Table groups, which are really just things started by -448 +435 00:19:11,944 --> 00:19:14,133 the -449 +436 00:19:14,134 --> 00:19:18,214 -members where they saw like a +members where they saw, like, a need or a space for something -450 -00:19:18,214 --> 00:19:21,275 -they were interested in and they -just self-organized. And that's +437 +00:19:18,214 --> 00:19:19,744 +they were interested in, and +they just self-organized. And -451 +438 +00:19:19,744 --> 00:19:21,274 +that's + +439 00:19:21,275 --> 00:19:25,595 -super great. And we, like, we +super great. And we, like-- we like those things, so there's a -452 +440 00:19:25,595 --> 00:19:28,159 question. Okay. How do we support people who wanna do -453 +441 00:19:28,159 --> 00:19:30,723 this? -454 +442 00:19:31,595 --> 00:19:36,079 How do we, again, like, avoid some of the pitfalls or some of -455 +443 00:19:36,079 --> 00:19:37,609 -the dangers of like doing a lot -of volunteer work, right? So +the dangers of, like, doing a +lot of volunteer work, right? -456 +444 00:19:37,609 --> 00:19:39,139 -it's +So it's -457 +445 00:19:39,140 --> 00:19:41,224 -like, if you wanna do this +like, "If you wanna do this group, what can we help you -458 +446 00:19:41,224 --> 00:19:43,308 -with? +with?" -459 +447 00:19:43,309 --> 00:19:46,039 -Like, what support can we give +Like, "What support can we give you? What support do you need? -460 +448 00:19:47,569 --> 00:19:49,294 -Can we equip you to kind of -like, have an idea of like how +Can we equip you to kind of like +have an idea of, like, how -461 +449 00:19:49,294 --> 00:19:51,019 much -462 +450 00:19:51,049 --> 00:19:52,609 effort it's gonna take, if you -need to stop — I think it is +need to stop—I think it is, -463 +451 00:19:52,609 --> 00:19:54,169 -like +like, -464 +452 00:19:54,170 --> 00:19:56,352 -most important that — if you -need to stop performing a role, +most important—that if you need +to stop performing a role, -465 +453 00:19:56,352 --> 00:19:58,534 can you -466 +454 00:19:58,535 --> 00:20:01,055 -do that -- communicate that in a +do that-- communicate that in a way that, like, is safe for you, -467 +455 00:20:01,055 --> 00:20:03,379 comfortable for you, like, -minimal pain points. So there's +minimal pain points." So there's -468 +456 00:20:03,379 --> 00:20:05,703 been -469 +457 00:20:05,704 --> 00:20:07,535 a lot of things like that, you know? Basically just people -470 +458 00:20:07,535 --> 00:20:09,484 saying like, "This stuff is going on here. I really like it. -471 +459 00:20:09,484 --> 00:20:11,433 How -472 +460 00:20:11,434 --> 00:20:12,784 can I get more involved?" And then us figuring out a way to, -473 +461 00:20:12,784 --> 00:20:14,134 like, -474 +462 00:20:15,704 --> 00:20:19,154 take people's enthusiasm and -then like put them on a path to +then, like, put them on a path -475 +463 00:20:19,154 --> 00:20:21,404 -success for what they're gonna -do, which I think is super +to success for what they're +gonna do, which I think is super -476 +464 00:20:21,404 --> 00:20:23,402 -important, you know? Like a lot +important, you know? Like, a lot of ... I don't know. When I -477 +465 00:20:23,402 --> 00:20:25,400 -think of like what it +think of, like, what it -478 +466 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,619 -comes down to with like these +comes down to with, like, these types of initiatives, it's ... -479 -00:20:28,619 --> 00:20:31,838 -you - -480 -00:20:31,839 --> 00:20:36,670 -find two issues. Sometimes +467 +00:20:28,619 --> 00:20:36,670 +you find two issues. Sometimes someone has a great idea, but a -481 +468 00:20:36,670 --> 00:20:39,910 system's not set up for it so -they can execute it and they get +they can execute it, and they -482 +469 00:20:39,910 --> 00:20:41,920 -bummed out. Or they have an idea -and they sort of like go +get bummed out. Or they have an +idea, and they sort of like go -483 +470 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:43,930 headlong -484 +471 00:20:43,930 --> 00:20:48,640 -into it and, you know, kind of +into it, and, you know, kind of like burn through their life -485 +472 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,307 force like a Phoenix. And neither of those is great. So, a -486 +473 00:20:51,307 --> 00:20:53,974 nice -487 +474 00:20:53,974 --> 00:20:59,884 -middle ground and it, you know, +middle ground and it-- you know, I think this idea of sustainable -488 +475 00:21:00,335 --> 00:21:04,565 leadership, I think is something is really important to us. If -489 +476 00:21:04,565 --> 00:21:07,384 you wanna lead something, we -wanna help you do it, but in a +wanna help you do it but in a -490 +477 00:21:07,384 --> 00:21:12,515 way where you can keep doing it on your own terms and not feel -491 +478 00:21:12,515 --> 00:21:14,749 like you have to because of other people, or you have to -492 +479 00:21:14,749 --> 00:21:16,983 because -493 +480 00:21:16,984 --> 00:21:18,807 -it's like, you know, just ... I +it's, like, you know, just ... I wanna do this while it provides -494 +481 00:21:18,807 --> 00:21:20,630 value and -495 +482 00:21:20,630 --> 00:21:24,079 joy for me, and then when I'm ready to stop, you can stop. And -496 +483 00:21:24,079 --> 00:21:26,269 that's okay. And I think that's the thing we've- we've kind of -497 +484 00:21:26,269 --> 00:21:28,459 gone over -498 +485 00:21:28,490 --> 00:21:34,490 this community. We like the fact this is not a space where -499 +486 00:21:34,490 --> 00:21:38,750 you have to come in perfect, you know? We like the fact that -500 +487 00:21:38,750 --> 00:21:41,757 people can grow here, there was this little space to grow here, -501 +488 00:21:41,757 --> 00:21:44,764 there's a -502 +489 00:21:44,765 --> 00:21:47,345 space to make mistakes within reason, there's a space to -503 +490 00:21:47,345 --> 00:21:51,785 practice things that you're not perfect at, you know? A lot of -504 +491 00:21:51,785 --> 00:21:52,810 -times people hesitate, I mean -even things like, why don't you +times people hesitate. I mean, +even things like, "why don't you -505 +492 00:21:52,810 --> 00:21:53,835 -learn -- +learn ..." -506 +493 00:21:53,855 --> 00:21:55,024 just like, "I've never," you know, "I've never done speaking -507 +494 00:21:55,024 --> 00:21:56,193 -before," +before." -508 +495 00:21:56,315 --> 00:21:58,295 -but like, if you haven't, this +But, like, if you haven't, this is probably the best space to -509 +496 00:21:58,295 --> 00:22:00,275 give -510 +497 00:22:00,275 --> 00:22:02,584 it a try. It's a non-hostile audience who only is interested -511 +498 00:22:02,584 --> 00:22:04,893 in -512 +499 00:22:04,894 --> 00:22:11,359 -just like supporting you as much -as possible, you know? So, +just, like, supporting you as +much as possible, you know? So, -513 +500 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,744 -yeah. It- it -- the -- well, I -was really validated by a lot of +yeah. It- it-- the-- well, I was +really validated by a lot of -514 -00:22:13,744 --> 00:22:16,129 -the - -515 -00:22:16,130 --> 00:22:19,549 -survey responses kind of echo -what we were feeling as +501 +00:22:13,744 --> 00:22:19,549 +the survey responses kind of +echo what we were feeling as -516 +502 00:22:19,549 --> 00:22:24,259 -maintainers and everyone seems -to kind of be on board, like +maintainers. And everyone seems +to kind of be on board, like, -517 +503 00:22:24,259 --> 00:22:25,069 making this even more awesome. -518 +504 00:22:26,539 --> 00:22:29,690 Bekah: Yeah. Dan, do you wanna talk through the things that you -519 +505 00:22:29,690 --> 00:22:32,240 implemented to help support our Coffee Table groups? -520 +506 00:22:33,755 --> 00:22:35,374 -Dan: Yeah. I mean, we -- the -- -I think the- the biggest thing +Dan: Yeah. I mean, we-- the-- I +think the- the biggest thing-- -521 +507 00:22:35,374 --> 00:22:36,993 --- the first +the first -522 +508 00:22:36,994 --> 00:22:38,659 -thing is just the -- is just -that the form and the stuff that +thing is just the-- is just that +the form and the stuff that -523 +509 00:22:38,659 --> 00:22:40,324 we've -524 +510 00:22:40,325 --> 00:22:43,295 been talking about a little bit i-i-is making it available. Just -525 +511 00:22:44,464 --> 00:22:46,625 letting our members know that it's- it's a thing that they -526 +512 00:22:46,625 --> 00:22:51,125 -could do, you know? And then +could do, you know? And then, after that, I've just kind of -527 +513 00:22:51,125 --> 00:22:54,454 scratched the surface about supporting these groups on a -528 -00:22:54,664 --> 00:22:59,194 -technical level. But -- you -know. So, one of the things was- +514 +00:22:54,664 --> 00:22:56,929 +technical level. But-- you +know-- so, one of the things -529 +515 +00:22:56,929 --> 00:22:59,194 +was- + +516 00:22:59,194 --> 00:23:03,365 was setting up a calendar system so that I, you know, people -530 +517 00:23:03,365 --> 00:23:05,360 -can log in -- our- our members --- I mean, our -- the- the group +can log in-- our- our members-- +I mean, our-- the- the group -531 +518 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:07,355 leaders can -532 +519 00:23:07,355 --> 00:23:11,375 log in and add their events, you know, recurring events or one -533 +520 00:23:11,375 --> 00:23:13,962 -off events. And then those +off events. And then, those events get filter back out -534 +521 00:23:13,962 --> 00:23:16,549 through -535 +522 00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:18,349 our website and, you know, onto -our events' page. And they also +our events' page. And they -536 +523 00:23:18,349 --> 00:23:20,149 --- I added +also-- I added -537 +524 00:23:20,150 --> 00:23:22,940 -a Slack bot sort of thing that, +a Slack bot sort of thing that-- well, we'll- we'll send -538 +525 00:23:22,940 --> 00:23:25,730 reminders from -539 +526 00:23:25,730 --> 00:23:29,630 -that. So we moved on from +that. So, we moved on from Meeting Place and are using -540 +527 00:23:29,630 --> 00:23:30,905 -that for our events now too, and -not just the special interest +that for our events now, too, +and not just the special -541 +528 00:23:30,905 --> 00:23:32,180 -group +interest group -542 +529 00:23:32,180 --> 00:23:34,055 -stuff -- Coffee Table groups +stuff-- Coffee Table groups [chuckles]. Sorry. We call them -543 +530 00:23:34,055 --> 00:23:35,930 the special -544 +531 00:23:35,930 --> 00:23:41,359 interest groups for a long time. -But -- so- so- so, yeah. So +But-- so- so- so-- yeah. So, -545 -00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:46,144 -that was like, this is like kind -of step one, is- is allowing +532 +00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,751 +that was, like, this is, like, +kind of step one, is- is -546 +533 +00:23:43,751 --> 00:23:46,143 +allowing + +534 00:23:46,625 --> 00:23:51,275 our group leaders to sort of roll their own stuff, you know? -547 +535 00:23:51,315 --> 00:23:54,005 So they don't have to ask us to add things to the calendar, ask -548 +536 00:23:54,005 --> 00:23:57,365 -us to add things to Slack -- in +us to add things to Slack-- in Slack, you know, Slack -549 +537 00:23:57,424 --> 00:24:03,664 reminders, and things like that. -And- and with -- along with +And- and with-- along with -550 +538 00:24:03,664 --> 00:24:05,944 that, sort of copied the co-working room experience and -551 +539 00:24:05,944 --> 00:24:08,224 [chuckles] -552 +540 00:24:08,615 --> 00:24:10,879 -made it -- so that we could -- -so our group leaders could use +made it-- so that we could-- so +our group leaders could use -553 -00:24:10,879 --> 00:24:13,143 -our - -554 -00:24:13,144 --> 00:24:16,654 -Zoom for events, which was +541 +00:24:10,879 --> 00:24:16,654 +our Zoom for events, which was another sticking point because -555 +542 00:24:17,375 --> 00:24:21,095 if you don't have a paid Zoom account, then I think you were -556 +543 00:24:21,095 --> 00:24:23,285 still limited to 40 minutes or -something like that. You know, +something like that, you know? -557 +544 00:24:23,285 --> 00:24:24,815 -there's limitations for- for +There's limitations for- for free accounts. And so, having a -558 +545 00:24:24,815 --> 00:24:26,345 central -559 +546 00:24:26,345 --> 00:24:30,154 place that you can trust that we will have things to get taken -560 +547 00:24:30,154 --> 00:24:31,219 care of and have some moderation tools in place, things like -561 +548 00:24:31,219 --> 00:24:32,284 that. -562 +549 00:24:32,434 --> 00:24:37,625 -So- so, yeah. And then I think I -have, you know, next is gonna +So- so-- yeah. And then I think, +I have-- you know, next is gonna -563 +550 00:24:37,625 --> 00:24:43,549 be some things more for general users to log in and be able to -564 +551 00:24:44,180 --> 00:24:46,940 maybe RSVP for events or add things to calendars, things like -565 +552 00:24:46,940 --> 00:24:49,445 that. So, that's coming down the -line. But- but, yeah. That's -- +line. But- but-- yeah. That's -566 +553 00:24:49,445 --> 00:24:51,950 -all +all. -567 +554 00:24:51,950 --> 00:24:54,950 -the- the- the group membership +The- the- the group membership stuff is in place right now. So -568 +555 00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:56,240 it's kind of- kind of exciting. -569 +556 00:24:57,035 --> 00:24:58,594 Bekah: Yeah, I think it's been -great. And I'd like -- I would +great. And I'd like-- I would -570 +557 00:24:58,594 --> 00:25:00,153 just wanna -571 +558 00:25:00,154 --> 00:25:04,265 share what some of our Coffee Table groups are, just so if you -572 +559 00:25:04,325 --> 00:25:08,914 are listening, you have an idea. -We've got -- at -- well, every +We've got-- at-- well, every -573 +560 00:25:08,914 --> 00:25:10,586 Monday, in Slack, in our announcements channel, it drops -574 +561 00:25:10,586 --> 00:25:12,258 all of the -575 +562 00:25:12,259 --> 00:25:15,289 things that are happening this -week. So it gives an overview. +week. So, it gives an overview. -576 +563 00:25:15,289 --> 00:25:19,549 We've got tech interview study group where they go through job -577 +564 00:25:19,579 --> 00:25:21,334 preparation materials, give each other feedback, answer -578 +565 00:25:21,334 --> 00:25:23,089 questions, -579 +566 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:28,069 -and things like that. Meg — who -you heard from this season — is +and things like that. Meg—who +you heard from this season—is -580 +567 00:25:28,130 --> 00:25:32,539 running the accountability buddies sessions, where it's, -581 +568 00:25:32,569 --> 00:25:37,430 again, I think job focused or- or working on projects, that -582 +569 00:25:37,430 --> 00:25:43,605 kind of thing. We have the React group as well. We have ... let's -583 +570 00:25:43,605 --> 00:25:48,585 see. Indie hackers, and we've got a new one, which is like a -584 -00:25:48,615 --> 00:25:50,370 +571 +00:25:48,615 --> 00:25:52,125 Virtual Coffee speaking group -where -- actually Kirk, you and +where-- actually Kirk, you and I -585 -00:25:50,370 --> 00:25:52,125 -I - -586 +572 00:25:52,125 --> 00:25:54,434 are up first, next week. Is that -next week, or the week after? +next week or the week after? -587 +573 00:25:54,434 --> 00:25:56,743 Well, -588 +574 00:25:56,744 --> 00:25:59,234 -we're giving short speeches. So +we're giving short speeches. So, we should prepare for those, -589 +575 00:25:59,234 --> 00:25:59,474 right? -590 +576 00:25:59,930 --> 00:26:00,320 Kirk: We should really find out. If it's [chuckles] next week or -591 +577 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:00,710 few weeks. -592 +578 00:26:02,694 --> 00:26:04,000 Bekah: It's in the calendar for sure. -593 +579 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,000 Kirk: There you go. -594 +580 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,434 -Bekah: So [chuckles] I should +Bekah: So [chuckles], I should write something. I know I'm -595 +581 00:26:08,434 --> 00:26:11,868 missing some of the other groups that we -596 -00:26:11,869 --> 00:26:13,519 +582 +00:26:11,869 --> 00:26:15,169 have going on there, but those are the ones that- that I can -597 -00:26:13,519 --> 00:26:15,169 -see - -598 +583 00:26:15,230 --> 00:26:21,605 -right now, and are coming to ... -my thoughts. So, I don't +see right now, and are coming to +... my thoughts. So-- I don't -599 +584 00:26:21,605 --> 00:26:23,134 -know, just like a lot of really -fun stuff in the- the VC's +know. Just, like, a lot of +really fun stuff in the- the -600 +585 00:26:23,134 --> 00:26:24,663 -speaking +VC's speaking -601 +586 00:26:24,664 --> 00:26:30,365 -group — the Virtual Coffee, -we've refer it as VC — is a cool +group—the Virtual Coffee, we've +refer it as VC—is a cool -602 +587 00:26:30,365 --> 00:26:34,595 one that's just started meeting -this past week? I don't know. +this past week? I don't know-- -603 +588 00:26:34,605 --> 00:26:36,190 -The last couple of weeks. So it +the last couple of weeks. So it all kind of blend together. So -604 +589 00:26:36,190 --> 00:26:37,775 [chuckles], we- we -605 +590 00:26:37,775 --> 00:26:39,545 met fairly recently for the first time, and kind of plan -606 +591 00:26:39,545 --> 00:26:41,315 things out, -607 +592 00:26:41,315 --> 00:26:44,105 and things are growing from there. So, there's always -608 +593 00:26:44,105 --> 00:26:48,095 something that there's a need that can be filled or there's an -609 +594 00:26:48,095 --> 00:26:49,842 -interest like, honestly, I- I -was thinking about like, "Okay, +interest, like, honestly, I- I +was thinking about, like, "Okay, -610 +595 00:26:49,842 --> 00:26:51,589 what -611 +596 00:26:51,740 --> 00:26:53,310 Coffee Table groups would I like to see?" And I don't know if -612 +597 00:26:53,310 --> 00:26:54,880 this -613 +598 00:26:55,039 --> 00:27:00,859 fits into a Coffee Table group, but, like, I don't know -614 +599 00:27:00,859 --> 00:27:06,785 what to call it. Happy Hour- Happy Hour Special Interest -615 +600 00:27:06,785 --> 00:27:10,055 -group? I -- it kind of like -falls outside of there, but like +group? I-- it kind of like falls +outside of there, but, like, -616 +601 00:27:10,115 --> 00:27:12,379 -something low-key, let's get -together, and hang out. We've +something low-key. Let's get +together and hang out. We've -617 +602 00:27:12,379 --> 00:27:14,643 done -618 +603 00:27:14,644 --> 00:27:17,569 some happy hours or social hours -before. And- and just like +before. And- and just, like, -619 +604 00:27:17,569 --> 00:27:20,494 seeing -620 +605 00:27:20,494 --> 00:27:24,244 the community interact in those ways has been a lot of fun. But -621 +606 00:27:24,244 --> 00:27:25,909 are there other groups that you two would like to see at Virtual -622 +607 00:27:25,909 --> 00:27:27,574 Coffee? -623 +608 00:27:29,974 --> 00:27:31,984 -Kirk: It's -- see, this is ... I +Kirk: It's-- see, this is ... I don't know if it's different -624 +609 00:27:31,984 --> 00:27:33,994 from the -625 +610 00:27:33,994 --> 00:27:36,335 happy hour group, but we've been talking about VC -626 +611 00:27:36,335 --> 00:27:39,394 -karaoke for like, forever. And +karaoke for, like, forever. And I'm- I'm so down. So down with -627 +612 00:27:39,394 --> 00:27:42,453 the karaoke. -628 +613 00:27:45,005 --> 00:27:48,305 -There's a -- okay. So this is -one that came up just yesterday +There's a-- okay. So this is one +that came up just yesterday -629 +614 00:27:48,305 --> 00:27:52,729 -actually. I was talking -- who +actually. I was talking-- who was I talking to? People [Bekah -630 +615 00:27:52,729 --> 00:27:57,153 chuckles]. And we were -631 +616 00:27:57,154 --> 00:27:59,652 talking about ... oh, yeah- yeah. We were talking about -632 +617 00:27:59,652 --> 00:28:02,150 poetry. And we were like, -633 +618 00:28:02,180 --> 00:28:03,499 -where -- if you were gonna share +"Where-- if you were gonna share your poetry and music, like, -634 +619 00:28:03,499 --> 00:28:04,818 where do -635 +620 00:28:04,819 --> 00:28:09,769 -you put -- content creation is +you put ..." content creation is slightly different. It's not -636 +621 00:28:09,769 --> 00:28:11,794 necessarily content, right? -Like, it's just like -- it's +Like, it's just, like-- it's -637 +622 00:28:11,794 --> 00:28:13,819 -like art, that for +like art—that for—me -638 +623 00:28:13,819 --> 00:28:17,119 -me -- that I'm sharing with, -like, friends. So then it's +that I'm sharing with, like, +friends. So then, it's -639 +624 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,419 like, "Hmm. Maybe -640 +625 00:28:20,420 --> 00:28:22,295 -that goes into --" I think we -have a -- so -- do we have a +that goes into ..." I think, we +have a-- so, do we have a -641 +626 00:28:22,295 --> 00:28:24,170 channel about crafts? Is it -craft -- +craft-- -642 +627 00:28:24,170 --> 00:28:24,769 Bekah: Making stuffs. -643 +628 00:28:24,769 --> 00:28:28,849 Kirk: Yeah. I'm not in it cuz I thought it was about macaroni, -644 +629 00:28:28,970 --> 00:28:33,077 but it's not [Bekah chuckles]. I -get this idea. So yeah. It was +get this idea. So, yeah. It -645 +630 00:28:33,077 --> 00:28:37,184 --- maybe there- maybe there's -like another space +was-- maybe there- maybe +there's, like, another space -646 -00:28:37,184 --> 00:28:39,974 -for that, but, you know, that's --- those- those are the two that +631 +00:28:37,184 --> 00:28:38,579 +for that, but, you know, +that's-- those- those are the -647 +632 +00:28:38,579 --> 00:28:39,974 +two that + +633 00:28:40,214 --> 00:28:42,434 immediately came to mind. But I feel like there's a ton more -648 +634 00:28:42,525 --> 00:28:45,685 like ... I don't know. I- I -think since the [chuckles] -- +think since the [chuckles]-- -649 +635 00:28:45,685 --> 00:28:48,845 -since we get -- we got past +since we get-- we got past -650 +636 00:28:48,845 --> 00:28:51,725 the- the time of Bryan [chuckles] making channels -651 +637 00:28:51,725 --> 00:28:54,605 [laughs], we've been a lot more -652 +638 00:28:56,035 --> 00:28:59,065 judicious about them. We made a channel for making channels, -653 +639 00:28:59,095 --> 00:29:00,264 which I actually think has worked out pretty well, as like -654 +640 00:29:00,264 --> 00:29:01,433 giving -655 +641 00:29:01,434 --> 00:29:03,339 -people like a clear space to +people, like, a clear space to discuss wanting certain -656 +642 00:29:03,339 --> 00:29:05,244 channels. -657 +643 00:29:05,755 --> 00:29:10,134 -The -- yeah. What I like about -the special interest groups is +The-- yeah. What I like about +the special interest groups is, -658 +644 00:29:10,134 --> 00:29:12,204 -like, it -- we don't predict -them, right? The members -- +like, it-- we don't predict +them, right? The members-- -659 +645 00:29:12,204 --> 00:29:14,274 someone has -660 +646 00:29:14,275 --> 00:29:18,654 -an idea, they will typically -like find some way to poll the +an idea, they will typically, +like, find some way to poll the -661 +647 00:29:18,654 --> 00:29:20,814 community, you know? Get -feedback, and like, general +feedback, and, like, general -662 +648 00:29:20,814 --> 00:29:22,974 -random, if +random. If -663 +649 00:29:22,974 --> 00:29:24,756 there's enough interest and -people like hype enough, they +people, like, hype enough, they -664 +650 00:29:24,756 --> 00:29:26,538 give it a try. -665 +651 00:29:26,930 --> 00:29:29,539 -And then, like, we, as the -maintainers, only come in like, +And then, like, we—as the +maintainers—only come in, like, -666 -00:29:29,569 --> 00:29:31,414 +652 +00:29:29,569 --> 00:29:33,259 "Hey, you're doing an awesome -thing," you know, "Let's see if +thing," you know? "Let's see if -667 -00:29:31,414 --> 00:29:33,259 -we - -668 +653 00:29:33,259 --> 00:29:37,534 -can, like, help out with it." +we can, like, help out with it." Yeah. I mean, having a process -669 +654 00:29:37,534 --> 00:29:41,809 to that is good [??], too. -670 +655 00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:45,420 -Dan: Yeah. I mean I -- What was +Dan: Yeah. I mean, I-- what was that? What did you say? -671 +656 00:29:46,009 --> 00:29:47,599 Kirk: I mean, having a process -for that is good. It's like some +for that is good. It's, like, -672 +657 00:29:47,599 --> 00:29:49,189 -things +some things -673 +658 00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:50,869 -end up not being like -- they -just -- it's like, okay. Like, +end up not being, like-- they +just-- it's, like, okay. Like, -674 +659 00:29:50,869 --> 00:29:52,548 if we have -675 +660 00:29:52,549 --> 00:29:56,079 external events, right? Which is where people can basically, you -676 +661 00:29:56,079 --> 00:29:58,670 know, if they have a thing that's going on outside of the -677 +662 00:29:58,670 --> 00:30:01,430 -community, you can always like +community, you can always, like, put it in there. A lot -678 +663 00:30:01,430 --> 00:30:03,305 -of stuff ends up like, well, +of stuff ends up like, "Well, this is probably just an -679 +664 00:30:03,305 --> 00:30:05,180 -external. +external -680 +665 00:30:05,509 --> 00:30:08,480 -Coffee Tables, or, spec- now I'm -saying special interest groups. +Coffee Tables," or, spec- now +I'm saying special interest -681 +666 00:30:08,509 --> 00:30:09,019 -Dan, what have you [chuckles] -- +groups. Dan, what have you +[chuckles]-- -682 -00:30:11,829 --> 00:30:13,660 -Dan: Well, we call them that for -like a year. And then we figured +667 +00:30:11,829 --> 00:30:12,744 +Dan: Well, we call them that +for, like, a year. And then, we -683 +668 +00:30:12,744 --> 00:30:13,659 +figured + +669 00:30:13,660 --> 00:30:16,119 out Coffee Table groups, which I like. It's just- it's just the -684 +670 00:30:16,119 --> 00:30:17,349 other one is stuck in my head. -So -- +So-- -685 +671 00:30:18,210 --> 00:30:20,664 Kirk: Yeah. The- the- the key -thing is that it's- it's a by +thing is that it's- it's a "by -686 +672 00:30:20,664 --> 00:30:23,118 -members for members. I +members for members". I -687 +673 00:30:23,119 --> 00:30:25,429 -think that's like the- the -- +think that's, like, the- the-- sort of the core concept, you -688 +674 00:30:25,429 --> 00:30:27,739 know? So, -689 +675 00:30:27,740 --> 00:30:28,745 it's not like an outside person -coming in all that it's just +coming in all that, it's just, -690 +676 00:30:28,745 --> 00:30:29,750 -like +like, -691 +677 00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:33,200 a seminar hold by our member [??]. So if you're gonna -692 +678 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,029 maybe expand it to everyone, then it sort of, you know, the -693 +679 00:30:37,029 --> 00:30:40,858 ability -694 -00:30:40,859 --> 00:30:46,230 -to like make sure it stays like -VC oriented will be diminished, +680 +00:30:40,859 --> 00:30:43,544 +to, like, make sure it stays, +like, VC-oriented will be -695 +681 +00:30:43,544 --> 00:30:46,229 +diminished, + +682 00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:47,612 right? Like, sticking to the -CoC, there's like all these +CoC. There's, like-- all these -696 +683 00:30:47,612 --> 00:30:48,994 other -697 +684 00:30:48,994 --> 00:30:51,095 things you just can't control if -it's not. So -- you know. +it's not. So-- you know. -698 +685 00:30:51,930 --> 00:30:53,774 Bekah: We- we have talked about some cross community -699 +686 00:30:53,774 --> 00:30:55,618 collaboration. -700 +687 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,945 And I know that there has been some talk among our members, -701 +688 00:30:57,945 --> 00:30:59,970 -like +like, -702 +689 00:31:00,029 --> 00:31:03,014 -what if this small interest -- -oh my, I did it now! [Deep +what if this small interest-- oh +my, I did it now! [Deep -703 +690 00:31:03,014 --> 00:31:05,999 exhales] Dan. Why you of all -people -- +people-- -704 +691 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:06,000 Dan: What have I done? [Laughs] -705 +692 00:31:06,119 --> 00:31:10,036 Bekah: [Chuckles] What if our Coffee Table groups collaborated -706 +693 00:31:10,036 --> 00:31:13,953 with -707 +694 00:31:13,954 --> 00:31:18,154 somebody else? Like, you know, -had another -- a community, a +had another-- a community, a -708 +695 00:31:18,154 --> 00:31:21,934 meetup, like, maybe freeCodeCamp Philly. Meg was talking about -709 -00:31:21,934 --> 00:31:25,234 -join accountability buddies. And -so there's definitely something +696 +00:31:21,934 --> 00:31:23,584 +joined accountability buddies. +And so, there's definitely -710 +697 +00:31:23,584 --> 00:31:25,234 +something + +698 00:31:25,234 --> 00:31:26,719 -that we're considering. And it --- you know, it goes back to +that we're considering. And it-- +you know, it goes back to, -711 +699 00:31:26,719 --> 00:31:28,204 -like, what +like, "What -712 +700 00:31:28,204 --> 00:31:31,775 are the needs of our members and -the leaders of those groups. So, +the leaders of those groups?" -713 +701 00:31:32,045 --> 00:31:34,400 -you know, it- it -- always +So, you know, it- it-- always talking things through and -714 +702 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,755 -figuring out like, is +figuring out like, "Is -715 +703 00:31:36,755 --> 00:31:41,855 this a good fit for our community? Is the priority of -716 +704 00:31:41,914 --> 00:31:42,634 -everything that we're doing? +everything that we're doing?" -717 +705 00:31:44,089 --> 00:31:47,930 -Kirk: Yeah. We, you know, like -acknowledging that we can't be +Kirk: Yeah. We-- you know, like, +acknowledging that, we can't be -718 +706 00:31:47,930 --> 00:31:55,910 everything for all people. And -also, like, we can't — ourselves +also, like, we can't—ourselves -719 +707 00:31:55,910 --> 00:31:57,634 -necessarily — like, handle like -every -- like there's lots of +necessarily—like, handle, like, +every-- like, there's lots of -720 +708 00:31:57,634 --> 00:31:59,358 good things -721 +709 00:31:59,359 --> 00:32:02,660 that members might want or like, but we're just not equipped to -722 +710 00:32:02,660 --> 00:32:04,594 provide those things. So if -there's like a great partnership +there's, like, a great -723 +711 00:32:04,594 --> 00:32:06,528 -with somebody +partnership with somebody -724 +712 00:32:06,529 --> 00:32:11,279 else who is doing that, then that's awesome. Brian Rinaldi -725 +713 00:32:11,279 --> 00:32:13,910 -comes to mind with like cfe.dev, -you know? Like, +comes to mind with, like, +cfe.dev, you know? Like, -726 +714 00:32:14,210 --> 00:32:18,799 consistent guest speakers, great quality talks, like, that's -727 +715 00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:22,940 something to takes a whole team to organize and through all that -728 -00:32:22,940 --> 00:32:24,590 -consistent basis. We, you and I, -have the bandwidth for that if - -729 -00:32:24,590 --> 00:32:26,240 -he +716 +00:32:22,940 --> 00:32:26,240 +consistent basis. We—you and +I—have the bandwidth for that if -730 +717 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:27,725 -does. And so, like, letting +he does. And so, like, letting members like, "Hey, every two -731 +718 00:32:27,725 --> 00:32:29,210 weeks, -732 +719 00:32:29,210 --> 00:32:31,160 -you're getting like a high +you're getting, like, a high quality thing that you can just -733 +720 00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:33,807 check out," feels good. Like, -everyone seems -- both sides are +everyone seems-- both sides are -734 +721 00:32:33,807 --> 00:32:36,335 sort of like -735 +722 00:32:36,335 --> 00:32:39,305 getting something out of it. So, if there's ways to do more of -736 +723 00:32:39,305 --> 00:32:44,525 that, it's great. Yeah. But -those do always require like +those do always require, like, -737 +724 00:32:44,585 --> 00:32:46,654 -extended -- you just have to -like work them out more because +extended-- you just have to, +like, work them out more because -738 +725 00:32:46,654 --> 00:32:48,723 now, -739 -00:32:48,724 --> 00:32:50,599 -you have to like check in that +726 +00:32:48,724 --> 00:32:52,474 +you have to, like, check in that this other group are aligned -740 -00:32:50,599 --> 00:32:52,474 -with - -741 +727 00:32:52,474 --> 00:32:54,214 -you, you gotta figure out -timing, you gotta -- you have +with you, you gotta figure out +timing, you gotta-- you have -742 +728 00:32:54,214 --> 00:32:55,954 your own -743 +729 00:32:55,954 --> 00:32:57,094 cadence of work, they have their own cadence work, it becomes -744 +730 00:32:57,094 --> 00:32:58,234 this -745 -00:32:58,234 --> 00:33:00,987 -thing, you know, but -- or not. -I don't think we're opposed to - -746 -00:33:00,987 --> 00:33:03,740 -like +731 +00:32:58,234 --> 00:33:03,740 +thing, you know? But-- or not. I +don't think we're opposed to, -747 +732 00:33:03,799 --> 00:33:08,390 -anything that doesn't bring -value for them in. +like, anything that doesn't +bring value for them in. -748 +733 00:33:10,454 --> 00:33:15,500 Bekah: Yes, 100%. So, you know, as we're working through -749 +734 00:33:15,500 --> 00:33:18,799 all of this stuff, there's obviously still pain points that -750 +735 00:33:18,799 --> 00:33:21,650 -we need to solve. So I thought +we need to solve. So, I thought, maybe we could talk a little bit -751 +736 00:33:21,650 --> 00:33:23,030 about, you know, some of the things that we're still trying -752 +737 00:33:23,030 --> 00:33:24,410 to -753 +738 00:33:24,410 --> 00:33:30,319 work through and- and maybe some of the ideas that we have or -754 +739 00:33:30,859 --> 00:33:35,059 just thoughts that we are trying to work through. -755 -00:33:37,345 --> 00:33:39,157 -Dan: Yeah. So I [clear-throat], -excuse me, I think one of our +740 +00:33:37,345 --> 00:33:37,346 +Dan: Yeah. So I [clear +throat]—excuse me—I think -756 -00:33:39,157 --> 00:33:40,969 -based -- I mean, we've +741 +00:33:37,157 --> 00:33:40,969 +one of our based-- I mean, we've -757 +742 00:33:40,970 --> 00:33:42,799 talked about some of the struggles and, you know, some of -758 +743 00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:46,009 them when we were talking about why we pause memberships -759 +744 00:33:46,069 --> 00:33:50,539 wh-with regards to having leadership support and things -760 +745 00:33:50,539 --> 00:33:54,650 like that. But a-another side of -that was -- is just handling +that was-- is just handling -761 +746 00:33:54,769 --> 00:33:58,579 incoming members, right? So I- I -think probably a lot of people +think, probably a lot of people -762 +747 00:33:58,579 --> 00:34:00,890 have had the experience of joining some community at this -763 +748 00:34:00,890 --> 00:34:03,035 -quarter, Slack, or whatever, and -being just overwhelmed +quarter [??], Slack, or +whatever, and being just -764 +749 00:34:03,035 --> 00:34:05,180 -[chuckles], or +overwhelmed [chuckles], or -765 +750 00:34:05,180 --> 00:34:09,949 not having any idea what to do, -or- or maybe it's a little +or- or, maybe, it's a little -766 +751 00:34:09,949 --> 00:34:11,824 -clear, but it's still just a -huge community with a million +clear but it's still just a huge +community with a million -767 +752 00:34:11,824 --> 00:34:13,699 channels -768 +753 00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:18,102 a-a-and no, you know, personal connection for you. And so, you -769 +754 00:34:18,102 --> 00:34:21,815 put your -770 +755 00:34:21,815 --> 00:34:23,045 name in [chuckles], you know, you fill out the intro thing and -771 +756 00:34:23,045 --> 00:34:24,275 -say, "Hello +say, "Hello, -772 +757 00:34:24,275 --> 00:34:26,255 everybody," and, you know, some -people react and say hi and +people react, and say hi, and -773 +758 00:34:26,255 --> 00:34:28,279 stuff, and then- and then it's kinda ... right [chuckles]? I -774 +759 00:34:28,279 --> 00:34:30,303 wouldn't want -775 +760 00:34:30,304 --> 00:34:31,429 -that to be -- I mean, if peep- -if that's what happens in +that to be-- I mean, if peep- if +that's what happens in -776 +761 00:34:31,429 --> 00:34:32,554 Virtual Coffee, -777 +762 00:34:32,554 --> 00:34:36,065 -that, you know, so be it for- +that-- you know, so be it for- for a person, but in general, we -778 +763 00:34:36,065 --> 00:34:39,815 don't want that to be that case, -right? And so our -- and this is +right? And so, our-- and this is -779 +764 00:34:39,815 --> 00:34:43,715 why we've stuck pretty hard with -our- our -- how you join Virtual +our- our-- how you join Virtual -780 +765 00:34:43,715 --> 00:34:46,175 Coffee is by coming to one of -our coffees, right? First. +our Coffees, right-- first, -781 +766 00:34:46,175 --> 00:34:48,635 -Before any +before any -782 +767 00:34:48,844 --> 00:34:51,154 Slack invites happen, things -like that. [Clear-throat] One of +like that. [Clear throat] One of -783 +768 00:34:51,154 --> 00:34:53,464 the difficulties -784 +769 00:34:53,465 --> 00:34:56,959 -with that is- is -- it was a -very manual process, right? The +with that is- is, it was a very +manual process, right? -785 +770 00:34:56,959 --> 00:35:00,453 --- +The-- -786 +771 00:35:00,485 --> 00:35:02,314 you know, Zoom has its own -authentication stuff, and +authentication stuff and -787 +772 00:35:02,314 --> 00:35:04,143 there's -788 +773 00:35:04,144 --> 00:35:06,972 no way to have people signed -into like a Zoom account, all of +into, like, a Zoom account, all -789 +774 00:35:06,972 --> 00:35:09,800 -the +of the -790 +775 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,360 -same account. Otherwise -- I -mean, it -- or- or unless they +same account. Otherwise-- I +mean, it-- or- or unless they -791 +776 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:12,920 were paid members, -792 +777 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,745 -right? So if you are on a work +right? So, if you are on a work Zoom or something, you know, -793 +778 00:35:14,745 --> 00:35:16,570 that- that -794 +779 00:35:16,579 --> 00:35:17,749 your work is paying for every single seat [chuckles]. And so, -795 +780 00:35:17,749 --> 00:35:18,919 that's -796 +781 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,509 obviously not a- a solution for -us. So when you join a Virtual +us. So, when you join a Virtual -797 +782 00:35:20,509 --> 00:35:22,098 Coffee's -798 +783 00:35:22,099 --> 00:35:23,599 Zoom, you're just joining on your own account, and you can -799 +784 00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:25,099 fill out -800 +785 00:35:25,099 --> 00:35:28,670 whatever details you want. There's no way for us to manage -801 +786 00:35:28,670 --> 00:35:32,269 any of that. What that means is -there's no auto- there's -- it's +there's no auto- there's-- it's -802 +787 00:35:32,269 --> 00:35:34,894 -very complicated, and possibly +very complicated, and possibly, sometimes impossible to connect -803 +788 00:35:34,894 --> 00:35:37,519 a -804 +789 00:35:37,519 --> 00:35:40,639 Zoom account with a person, you know? And whether they've joined -805 +790 00:35:40,639 --> 00:35:43,610 or not before, and things like that. And so, our solution was -806 +791 00:35:43,610 --> 00:35:46,760 just to have people fill out the membership form and, you know, -807 +792 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,019 we'd have a little link after -coffees, and they would fill out +Coffees, and they would fill out -808 +793 00:35:51,019 --> 00:35:52,887 -the form, and then we would +the form, and then, we would essentially go and make sure -809 +794 00:35:52,887 --> 00:35:54,755 that -810 +795 00:35:54,755 --> 00:35:56,674 they actually came, and then send them a Slack invite, sort -811 +796 00:35:56,674 --> 00:35:58,593 of all -812 -00:35:58,594 --> 00:36:01,144 -manually. We -- wait, peep- just --- maintainers were just doing +797 +00:35:58,594 --> 00:35:59,869 +manually. We-- wait, peep- +just-- maintainers were just -813 +798 +00:35:59,869 --> 00:36:01,144 +doing + +799 00:36:01,144 --> 00:36:04,175 that. And that was hard too, you know? I mean, that was time -814 +800 00:36:04,175 --> 00:36:07,324 -consuming even when there was +consuming, even when there was just five people that, you know, -815 +801 00:36:07,324 --> 00:36:11,885 -joined that week, it took up +joined that week. It took up time. And we have more and more -816 +802 00:36:11,885 --> 00:36:15,784 people coming, things like that. -And, so, that's one of the +And so, that's one of the -817 +803 00:36:15,784 --> 00:36:17,224 challenges that I'd like to nail -down i-is just like what- what +down—i-is just, like, what- what -818 +804 00:36:17,224 --> 00:36:18,664 it means -819 +805 00:36:18,664 --> 00:36:23,105 to be a member? How to- how to join things, you know? -820 +806 00:36:23,195 --> 00:36:26,225 Those sorts of topics, right? -And then how can we- how can we +And then, how can we- how can we -821 +807 00:36:26,225 --> 00:36:29,255 keep -822 +808 00:36:29,434 --> 00:36:33,454 the sort of intimate nature of- of joining Virtual Coffee -823 +809 00:36:33,844 --> 00:36:36,184 while supporting multiple members, you know, more and -824 +810 00:36:36,184 --> 00:36:40,324 more, large and larger group of -people. And then also how to +people. And then, also how to -825 +811 00:36:41,105 --> 00:36:44,195 onboard them gracefully and things like that, not overwhelm -826 +812 00:36:44,195 --> 00:36:48,739 people, and not call with them with, you know, a million -827 +813 00:36:48,739 --> 00:36:50,404 channels and huge group of people that they don't know -828 +814 00:36:50,404 --> 00:36:52,069 anything -829 +815 00:36:52,070 --> 00:36:53,840 -about. So, that's -- we -- -we've- we've been talking a lot +about. So, that's-- we-- we've- +we've been talking a lot -830 +816 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,610 about that -831 +817 00:36:55,610 --> 00:36:57,260 too over the past few months. -832 +818 00:36:58,525 --> 00:36:59,799 Bekah: Yeah. And along with that, when you have more people, -833 +819 00:36:59,799 --> 00:37:01,073 you're -834 +820 00:37:01,074 --> 00:37:04,494 gonna need more moderation, right? So for us, moderation -835 +821 00:37:04,494 --> 00:37:10,105 -hasn't been a huge issue, but as +hasn't been a huge issue. But as you onboard more people and have -836 +822 00:37:10,554 --> 00:37:13,795 less of a personal relationship with every single person that -837 +823 00:37:13,795 --> 00:37:15,837 comes in, it- it becomes a little bit trickier, right? And -838 +824 00:37:15,837 --> 00:37:17,879 -so you wanna +so, you wanna -839 +825 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,360 make sure that you're prepared -for something that might happen +for something that might happen, -840 +826 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,739 and dealing with those types of issues, and making sure that -841 +827 00:37:25,739 --> 00:37:28,650 everybody has access to that information that they need. Not -842 +828 00:37:28,650 --> 00:37:30,914 everybody needs access to all of the information. And so, -843 +829 00:37:30,914 --> 00:37:33,178 providing -844 +830 00:37:33,210 --> 00:37:37,769 each group of volunteers with that information, making sure -845 +831 00:37:37,769 --> 00:37:40,769 that they're up to date and can communicate openly with each -846 +832 00:37:40,769 --> 00:37:43,286 other when something needs to be -updated or changed is -- those +updated or changed is-- those -847 +833 00:37:43,286 --> 00:37:45,803 are -848 +834 00:37:45,835 --> 00:37:47,410 also, you know, priorities and pain points that we're trying to -849 -00:37:47,410 --> 00:37:48,985 -work - -850 -00:37:48,985 --> 00:37:51,688 -through. Kirk, do you have +835 +00:37:47,410 --> 00:37:51,688 +work through. Kirk, do you have anything to add? -851 +836 00:37:52,478 --> 00:37:55,778 -Kirk: I think we should go back +Kirk: I think, we should go back to trial by combat for -852 +837 00:37:55,778 --> 00:38:00,159 membership. Maybe we should go back to the old ways. Now ... -853 +838 00:38:00,219 --> 00:38:03,818 no. I think, you guys, you hit the nail on the head. I was just -854 +839 00:38:05,918 --> 00:38:12,623 thinking through things being conscientious. You can only -855 +840 00:38:12,623 --> 00:38:16,853 get so far, just kind of like going with the flow, and -856 +841 00:38:16,853 --> 00:38:18,083 eventually, like, if the flow becomes like a delusion, you -857 +842 00:38:18,083 --> 00:38:19,313 kinda -858 +843 00:38:19,313 --> 00:38:24,744 need to have a plan. Yeah. And it's- it's- it's just us sort of -859 +844 00:38:25,014 --> 00:38:26,663 being a lot more thoughtful about stuff, and kind of -860 +845 00:38:26,663 --> 00:38:28,312 stepping back, -861 +846 00:38:28,313 --> 00:38:34,128 and saying, "Okay, if something works now, why does it work? Is -862 +847 00:38:34,128 --> 00:38:36,393 -there a way to like, clarify +there a way to, like, clarify that so we can reference why, -863 -00:38:36,393 --> 00:38:38,658 -new - -864 -00:38:38,659 --> 00:38:40,474 -people can reference why," and -like, we start, you know, +848 +00:38:36,393 --> 00:38:40,474 +new people can reference why," +and, like, we start, you know, -865 +849 00:38:40,474 --> 00:38:42,289 building that up. -866 +850 00:38:42,978 --> 00:38:44,928 -You know, we recently had like -something that make -- the +You know, we recently had, like, +something that make-- the -867 +851 00:38:44,928 --> 00:38:46,878 maintainers -868 +852 00:38:46,878 --> 00:38:49,719 -were discussing and were like, +were discussing, and were like, "Hey, is this in the Code of -869 +853 00:38:49,728 --> 00:38:50,913 Conduct?" And we were like, "No," like, "We should probably, -870 +854 00:38:50,913 --> 00:38:52,098 like, put -871 +855 00:38:52,099 --> 00:38:53,704 -it in there, right?" Just so -like we don't forget later if it +it in there, right? Just so, +like, we don't forget later if -872 +856 00:38:53,704 --> 00:38:55,309 -happens +it happens -873 +857 00:38:55,309 --> 00:38:58,278 -again, there's like something -that we can reference and go, +again, there's, like, something +that we can reference and go." -874 +858 00:38:58,338 --> 00:39:00,115 -"Well, we're not just making it -up on the fly as we go along." +Well, we're not just making it +up on the fly as we go along. -875 +859 00:39:00,115 --> 00:39:01,892 -Or, I +Or-- I -876 +860 00:39:01,893 --> 00:39:03,828 -mean, we are, but like, the +mean, we are, but, like, the things that we wanna keep -877 +861 00:39:03,828 --> 00:39:05,763 [chuckles], we're -878 +862 00:39:05,764 --> 00:39:08,909 putting it somewhere where it- it can, you know, stay. Yeah, I -879 +863 00:39:08,909 --> 00:39:12,054 don't know. -880 +864 00:39:12,123 --> 00:39:17,043 -And there's something about like -habits and traditions. If +And there's something about, +like, habits and traditions. If -881 +865 00:39:17,043 --> 00:39:22,324 something is good and provides -good value for you, you should +good value for you, you should, -882 +866 00:39:22,324 --> 00:39:25,083 -like find a way to keep it. And +like, find a way to keep it. And if something is not providing -883 +867 00:39:25,083 --> 00:39:26,950 good value for you, then, like, -you should set it free. But you +you should set it free. But -884 +868 00:39:26,950 --> 00:39:28,817 --- it's +you-- it's -885 +869 00:39:28,818 --> 00:39:31,128 hard to do that if you're not keeping track of those things. -886 +870 00:39:31,579 --> 00:39:33,000 -So, yeah. +So-- yeah. -887 +871 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,000 -Bekah: I think along -- +Bekah: I think along-- -888 +872 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,824 Kirk: But [unintelligible] thing, we can totally ... I'm -889 +873 00:39:37,824 --> 00:39:41,648 ready. Dan, are you ready? Dan is [unintelligible]. -890 +874 00:39:43,634 --> 00:39:44,353 Dan: I'm always ready. -891 +875 00:39:44,353 --> 00:39:48,000 Kirk: There you go. Bekah, you're ready? -892 +876 00:39:48,403 --> 00:39:52,393 Bekah: Always. Always ready. I- -I think along with all this +I think along with all this, -893 +877 00:39:52,393 --> 00:39:55,724 too, when we're thinking about these things, we also have to -894 +878 00:39:55,724 --> 00:39:57,988 think about them on a much larger scale, right? So, if it -895 +879 00:39:57,988 --> 00:40:00,252 works now, -896 +880 00:40:00,253 --> 00:40:08,778 will it work if we have 500 more people? And the biggest -897 +881 00:40:09,994 --> 00:40:11,524 value of Virtual Coffee, I think, comes from the intimacy -898 +882 00:40:11,524 --> 00:40:13,054 those -899 +883 00:40:13,054 --> 00:40:18,063 small group connections. And so, -I say 500 people and like, that +I say, 500 people and like, that -900 +884 00:40:18,063 --> 00:40:19,458 sounds scary to me. But, you know, there's potential for -901 +885 00:40:19,458 --> 00:40:20,853 that. -902 +886 00:40:20,853 --> 00:40:23,088 -There -- we would love to have -as many people as we can, if we +There-- we would love to have as +many people as we can, if we -903 +887 00:40:23,088 --> 00:40:25,323 can -904 +888 00:40:25,324 --> 00:40:27,304 replicate that same intimacy. -And so trying to figure out how +And so, trying to figure out how -905 +889 00:40:27,304 --> 00:40:29,284 do -906 +890 00:40:29,284 --> 00:40:33,603 -you do that? If you add another -coffee chat, are- are 500 people +you do that-- if you add another +Coffee chat, are- are 500 people -907 +891 00:40:33,603 --> 00:40:37,583 just going to suddenly appear in Slack? I mean, they wouldn't -908 +892 00:40:37,583 --> 00:40:39,308 suddenly appear right there. -We'll be [chuckles] -- we're not +We'll be [chuckles]-- we're not -909 +893 00:40:39,308 --> 00:40:41,033 going to get -910 +894 00:40:41,034 --> 00:40:45,918 500 new people overnight. But that's something that we have to -911 +895 00:40:45,918 --> 00:40:50,028 think about. I don't think it's bad to have another pause -912 +896 00:40:50,028 --> 00:40:51,633 and membership in the future. -Now there are some communities +Now, there are some communities -913 +897 00:40:51,633 --> 00:40:53,238 that -914 +898 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,838 have opened membership as one- one month during a quarter or -915 +899 00:40:56,838 --> 00:41:01,414 -something. Or one week they +something. Or one week, they onboard new folks who are coming -916 -00:41:01,414 --> 00:41:05,193 -into the community and otherwise -they're closed. So, there are a +900 +00:41:01,414 --> 00:41:03,303 +into the community, and +otherwise, they're closed. So, -917 +901 +00:41:03,303 --> 00:41:05,192 +there are a + +902 00:41:05,193 --> 00:41:08,974 lot of different ways that you can build that into the process, -918 +903 00:41:09,184 --> 00:41:13,713 give everybody a break, kind of like a vacation to pause, -919 +904 00:41:13,713 --> 00:41:17,643 breathe, think things through. -But, you know, ultimately we +But, you know, ultimately, we -920 +905 00:41:17,643 --> 00:41:22,023 have to be thinking about how do -we replicate — exactly what Kirk +we replicate—exactly what Kirk -921 +906 00:41:22,023 --> 00:41:23,683 -was saying — is- is good about +was saying—is- is good about this community as we scale as -922 +907 00:41:23,683 --> 00:41:25,343 well. -923 +908 00:41:27,614 --> 00:41:29,446 Kirk: Yeah. And there's something that's been bouncing -924 +909 00:41:29,446 --> 00:41:31,278 around in my -925 +910 00:41:31,278 --> 00:41:33,993 head a lot about, like, community size. And I have a -926 +911 00:41:33,993 --> 00:41:36,708 working -927 +912 00:41:36,708 --> 00:41:44,358 hypothesis, which is that I ... don't think community size is -928 +913 00:41:44,358 --> 00:41:47,389 necessarily a problem. I feel like it's almost like a -929 +914 00:41:47,389 --> 00:41:50,599 precursor, like, having the community getting bigger can -930 +915 00:41:50,599 --> 00:41:53,809 lead -931 +916 00:41:53,809 --> 00:41:55,789 to other things. Like, those things are actually the problem -932 +917 00:41:55,818 --> 00:41:57,880 -or like a lack of certain +or, like, a lack of certain things. But if you know what it -933 +918 00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,942 is and you're -934 -00:41:59,943 --> 00:42:03,393 +919 +00:41:59,943 --> 00:42:01,668 prepared for it, I don't think -it's like -- so, like, obviously +it's, like-- so, like, -935 +920 +00:42:01,668 --> 00:42:03,393 +obviously, + +921 00:42:03,603 --> 00:42:05,343 suddenly having 500 members would probably be a bad thing, -936 +922 00:42:05,343 --> 00:42:07,083 you -937 +923 00:42:07,083 --> 00:42:11,673 know? But I guess if there was an increase in 500 members over -938 +924 00:42:11,673 --> 00:42:14,103 -the course of like 10 years, -like, I don't know. That's a +the course of, like, 10 years, +like-- I don't know. That's a -939 +925 00:42:14,103 --> 00:42:15,468 -bad thing. So the problem might +bad thing. So, the problem might not be the 500 members. It's -940 +926 00:42:15,468 --> 00:42:16,833 -just +just, -941 +927 00:42:16,833 --> 00:42:20,943 like, what is it mean when new people enter the group, right? -942 +928 00:42:20,943 --> 00:42:29,164 And we found ... too many people in at once, it starts to get a -943 +929 00:42:29,164 --> 00:42:29,884 little- -944 +930 00:42:31,103 --> 00:42:32,903 Bekah: Dilutes the experience or something. -945 +931 00:42:33,344 --> 00:42:34,933 -Kirk: -it gets a little -- yeah. -Well, it gets a little -- it's +Kirk: -it gets a little-- yeah. +Well, it gets a little-- it's, -946 +932 00:42:34,933 --> 00:42:36,522 -like more strangers +like, more strangers -947 -00:42:36,523 --> 00:42:40,063 +933 +00:42:36,523 --> 00:42:38,293 in a room. And as much as -possible we try and like remove +possible, we try and, like, -948 -00:42:40,063 --> 00:42:41,968 -the feeling of like strangers in -a room, you know? Like, there -- +934 +00:42:38,293 --> 00:42:40,063 +remove -949 +935 +00:42:40,063 --> 00:42:41,015 +the feeling of, like, strangers +in a room, you know? Like, + +936 +00:42:41,015 --> 00:42:41,967 +there-- + +937 00:42:41,968 --> 00:42:43,873 -it's like, this is +it's, like-- this is, -950 +938 00:42:43,873 --> 00:42:45,748 -like +like, friend-I-don't-know-too-well-yet -951 +939 00:42:45,748 --> 00:42:47,623 -versus +versus, -952 +940 00:42:47,623 --> 00:42:50,198 -like, person that I- I- I just --- I don't want to interact +like, person that I- I- I just-- +I don't want to interact -953 +941 00:42:50,198 --> 00:42:52,773 with. But -954 +942 00:42:52,773 --> 00:42:54,658 -we also know like having fresh -new faces is just the way of -- +we also know, like, having fresh +new faces is just the way of-- -955 +943 00:42:54,658 --> 00:42:56,543 like, it -956 +944 00:42:56,583 --> 00:43:00,634 -just -- it keeps things fun, it +just-- it keeps things fun, it keeps things healthy. -957 +945 00:43:01,923 --> 00:43:04,833 Communities are dynamic systems. People enter, people leave, -958 +946 00:43:04,864 --> 00:43:07,249 -people return. And like, being -able to like handle all those +people return. And, like, being +able to, like, handle all those -959 +947 00:43:07,249 --> 00:43:09,634 steps of -960 +948 00:43:09,634 --> 00:43:12,664 your journey as a community -member is really important for +member is really important for, -961 +949 00:43:12,664 --> 00:43:14,734 -like having a good community, -you know? So, yeah. Let's say we +like, having a good community, +you know? So-- yeah. Let's say -962 +950 00:43:14,734 --> 00:43:16,804 -have +we have, -963 +951 00:43:16,804 --> 00:43:18,574 -like a thousand members, but -we're probably not gonna have +like, a thousand members, but +we're probably not gonna have, -964 -00:43:18,574 --> 00:43:21,603 -like a thousand people active at -the same time. They'll come in +952 +00:43:18,574 --> 00:43:20,088 +like, a thousand people active +at the same time. They'll come -965 +953 +00:43:20,088 --> 00:43:21,602 +in + +954 00:43:21,603 --> 00:43:25,594 waves, they'll come and go, and -it- it, you know, there's -- I +it- it, you know, there's-- I -966 +955 00:43:25,594 --> 00:43:28,143 -think there's a way of like +think, there's a way of, like, living in that space that can -967 +956 00:43:28,143 --> 00:43:30,183 feel really good. Like, very quickly you figured out, "Oh, -968 +957 00:43:30,183 --> 00:43:32,223 it's -969 +958 00:43:32,224 --> 00:43:34,909 not so much." Zooms can have lots of people. As long as when -970 +959 00:43:34,909 --> 00:43:37,594 people -971 +960 00:43:37,594 --> 00:43:39,229 finally start talking, they're -in like a small enough space +in, like, a small enough space -972 +961 00:43:39,229 --> 00:43:40,864 that it -973 +962 00:43:40,864 --> 00:43:43,923 feels comfortable. And that's how the breakout room started. -974 +963 00:43:44,643 --> 00:43:47,463 -So -- and I think there's like -similar techniques, so we can +So-- and I think, there's, like, +similar techniques so we can -975 +964 00:43:47,463 --> 00:43:52,204 -grow, and not necessarily it's +grow, and not necessarily it's, like ... I don't know. This will -976 +965 00:43:52,204 --> 00:43:55,173 become like a thesis at some point. But the key metric may -977 +966 00:43:55,173 --> 00:43:58,142 not -978 +967 00:43:58,143 --> 00:44:02,824 be total numbers, but sort of like, how are the people -979 +968 00:44:02,824 --> 00:44:06,003 interacting with other people? Are they still getting a chance -980 +969 00:44:06,003 --> 00:44:09,514 for, like, intimate moments with -a few members at any given time, +a few members at any given time -981 +970 00:44:10,338 --> 00:44:11,448 and we can make that work? And we think we can make that work. -982 +971 00:44:11,448 --> 00:44:12,558 We -983 -00:44:12,559 --> 00:44:14,568 -also think we can have like the -greatest conference of all time. +972 +00:44:12,559 --> 00:44:13,563 +also think we can have, like, +the greatest conference of all -984 +973 +00:44:13,563 --> 00:44:14,567 +time. + +974 00:44:14,929 --> 00:44:16,039 We have big thoughts. -985 +975 00:44:16,474 --> 00:44:17,000 Bekah: Next summer. -986 +976 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:18,000 Kirk: Am I right? -987 +977 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,404 Bekah: Well, I'm gonna push back a little bit, Kirk. Cuz I -988 +978 00:44:22,404 --> 00:44:26,808 disagree slightly with what you're saying. I do -989 +979 00:44:26,809 --> 00:44:30,438 think the total number matters. -And I keep going back to -- it's +And I keep going back to-- it's -990 +980 00:44:30,438 --> 00:44:32,643 -Dunbar's number, that you can +Dunbar's number—that you can maintain 150 connections at -991 +981 00:44:32,643 --> 00:44:34,848 once. -992 +982 00:44:35,329 --> 00:44:38,274 And I think that- that allows for Slack intimacy. So, I think -993 +983 00:44:38,274 --> 00:44:41,219 that -994 +984 00:44:41,309 --> 00:44:43,739 we also have to think through two things here, right? We're -995 +985 00:44:43,739 --> 00:44:45,104 thinking about, like, what does it look like, in the breakout -996 +986 00:44:45,104 --> 00:44:46,469 rooms, -997 +987 00:44:46,498 --> 00:44:49,889 in Tuesdays and Thursdays? We like to keep it to eight to 10 -998 +988 00:44:49,889 --> 00:44:52,786 people per room. And I think that- that is- that is good. But -999 +989 00:44:52,786 --> 00:44:55,683 I also -1000 +990 00:44:55,684 --> 00:44:59,463 think that having that small experience where you know -1001 +991 00:44:59,463 --> 00:45:01,158 people in Slack is important. And it is tricky for the reasons -1002 +992 00:45:01,158 --> 00:45:02,853 that -1003 +993 00:45:02,853 --> 00:45:04,533 you say. Because people come in and they come out all of the -1004 +994 00:45:04,533 --> 00:45:06,213 time, -1005 +995 00:45:06,543 --> 00:45:07,983 -you know? Somebody has -- is +you know? Somebody has-- is super active, and then they get -1006 +996 00:45:07,983 --> 00:45:09,423 a -1007 +997 00:45:09,423 --> 00:45:11,493 new job, and then you don't hear from them as much, right? Or -1008 +998 00:45:11,493 --> 00:45:13,563 they -1009 +999 00:45:13,563 --> 00:45:15,783 can't participate anymore, which -is totally fine. So it's a -- +is totally fine. So, it's a-- -1010 +1000 00:45:15,783 --> 00:45:18,003 -this like +this, like, -1011 +1001 00:45:19,009 --> 00:45:21,528 constant flow of people coming -in, so, you know, we might have +in. So, you know, we might -1012 +1002 00:45:21,528 --> 00:45:24,047 --- +have-- -1013 +1003 00:45:24,378 --> 00:45:26,898 might say we have 500 people in Slack, but we certainly don't -1014 +1004 00:45:26,898 --> 00:45:31,579 have 500 active people in Slack. But I do think that that idea of -1015 +1005 00:45:31,579 --> 00:45:37,039 having 150 people says something for the intimacy of the group. -1016 +1006 00:45:37,068 --> 00:45:40,338 It's like their extended network of people. You can go to an -1017 +1007 00:45:40,338 --> 00:45:41,673 in-person conference and be like, "Oh, I know that person -1018 +1008 00:45:41,673 --> 00:45:43,008 there from -1019 +1009 00:45:43,009 --> 00:45:44,701 Virtual Coffee, so I'm going to talk to them because I'm -1020 +1010 00:45:44,701 --> 00:45:46,393 standing -1021 +1011 00:45:46,393 --> 00:45:49,963 in this corner alone by myself." Maybe that was me [chuckles]. -1022 +1012 00:45:49,963 --> 00:45:53,533 But I- I -1023 +1013 00:45:54,103 --> 00:45:57,284 -would like to figure out, or I, +would like to figure out or I, you know, I think that we're -1024 +1014 00:45:57,284 --> 00:46:00,873 making progress towards figuring out how to maintain that -1025 +1015 00:46:00,903 --> 00:46:03,243 intimacy in both places. So I think that maybe there is a -1026 +1016 00:46:03,243 --> 00:46:05,583 world -1027 +1017 00:46:05,583 --> 00:46:08,493 where we do have 500 people in what- whatever platform we're -1028 +1018 00:46:08,493 --> 00:46:11,403 on, but -1029 +1019 00:46:11,403 --> 00:46:18,393 can still maintain that, like, 150 person asynchronous -1030 +1020 00:46:18,454 --> 00:46:22,384 communication intimacy, as well as those breakout room -1031 +1021 00:46:22,443 --> 00:46:23,373 communications. -1032 +1022 00:46:24,478 --> 00:46:26,263 Dan: Yeah, I- I- I agree. And I- -I think that [clear-throat] to +I think that [clears throat] to, -1033 +1023 00:46:26,263 --> 00:46:28,048 like, kind of -1034 +1024 00:46:28,048 --> 00:46:29,908 combine what both of you were saying together, you know, it's -1035 +1025 00:46:29,908 --> 00:46:31,768 -the -- +the-- -1036 +1026 00:46:32,039 --> 00:46:33,418 -like the large number isn't the +like, the large number isn't the met- isn't the important metric, -1037 +1027 00:46:33,418 --> 00:46:34,797 you -1038 +1028 00:46:34,798 --> 00:46:35,863 know? And I think that's the biggest, like, thing that I -1039 +1029 00:46:35,863 --> 00:46:36,928 -love, +love—what- -1040 +1030 00:46:36,929 --> 00:46:39,151 -what- what was Kirk was saying -was like, if we- we- we +what was Kirk was saying—was, +like, if we- we- we -1041 +1031 00:46:39,151 --> 00:46:41,373 aggressively -1042 +1032 00:46:41,373 --> 00:46:43,548 -don't have metrics [laughs], but -like, if we did, like, that — +don't have metrics [laughs]. But +like, if we did, like, that—and -1043 +1033 00:46:43,548 --> 00:46:45,723 -and it was +it was -1044 +1034 00:46:45,724 --> 00:46:47,079 -possible — that would be the -thing to measure on, right? Is +possible—that would be the thing +to measure on, right? Is-- -1045 +1035 00:46:47,079 --> 00:46:48,434 --- like, are +like, are -1046 +1036 00:46:48,434 --> 00:46:50,764 our members making intimate connections, you know? Are our -1047 +1037 00:46:50,764 --> 00:46:57,753 members, like, part- part of a group, you know- you know -1048 +1038 00:46:57,753 --> 00:47:00,634 -what I mean? And so -- and I +what I mean? And so-- and I totally agree with you, Bekah. -1049 +1039 00:47:00,664 --> 00:47:02,448 -Like, i-it's like, it- it -- -when you say, oh, it -- the +Like, i-it's like, it- it-- when +you say, "Oh, it-- the -1050 +1040 00:47:02,448 --> 00:47:04,232 number, it doesn't -1051 +1041 00:47:04,233 --> 00:47:07,083 -matter, you know? It's -- you're -gonna -- like, the number does +matter," you know? It's-- you're +gonna-- like, the number does -1052 +1042 00:47:07,083 --> 00:47:09,933 matter, -1053 +1043 00:47:09,963 --> 00:47:12,288 right? And whether that 150 numbers is- is, you know, feels -1054 +1044 00:47:12,288 --> 00:47:14,613 right -1055 +1045 00:47:14,614 --> 00:47:18,184 or not is- is probably up in the -air. But like, it's- it's one of +air. But, like, it's- it's one -1056 +1046 00:47:18,184 --> 00:47:22,083 -those things where it's -- and +of those things where it's-- and this is why we pause membership. -1057 +1047 00:47:22,083 --> 00:47:24,123 -And this is why we're like +And this is why we're, like, thinking so hard, is because we -1058 -00:47:24,123 --> 00:47:27,558 +1048 +00:47:24,123 --> 00:47:30,993 want to be able to keep the- to -keep the ... intimacy, and the - -1059 -00:47:27,558 --> 00:47:30,993 --- +keep the ... intimacy, and the-- -1060 +1049 00:47:31,054 --> 00:47:33,911 sort of shape of our [chuckles] community while growing. And -1061 +1050 00:47:33,911 --> 00:47:36,768 -that's hard and not a +that's hard, and not a -1062 +1051 00:47:36,768 --> 00:47:39,889 lot of people have done it. And we think we can crack it, and I -1063 +1052 00:47:39,889 --> 00:47:44,088 think we're pretty close, -honestly. And -- but, yeah. +honestly. And-- but-- yeah. -1064 +1053 00:47:44,088 --> 00:47:48,018 -It's- it's -- and it's very +It's- it's-- and it's very important to us, I think. And -1065 +1054 00:47:48,018 --> 00:47:50,898 I think it's important to our community members as well. So -1066 +1055 00:47:51,829 --> 00:47:55,369 I, you know, when you are on out- outside of the community of -1067 -00:47:55,369 --> 00:47:57,034 -Virtual Coffee, or maybe you're +1056 +00:47:55,369 --> 00:47:58,699 +Virtual Coffee or maybe you're brand new member, it might not -1068 -00:47:57,034 --> 00:47:58,699 -be - -1069 +1057 00:47:58,699 --> 00:48:00,726 -as clear. Or maybe if you +be as clear. Or maybe, if you haven't thought about it -1070 +1058 00:48:00,726 --> 00:48:02,753 [laughs], you know, and- -1071 +1059 00:48:02,753 --> 00:48:06,963 and you just kind of along for -the ride. I know for- for my, at +the ride. I know for- for my-- -1072 +1060 00:48:06,963 --> 00:48:08,643 -least personally, like, -sometimes I just don't -- I +at least personally, like, +sometimes I just don't-- I -1073 +1061 00:48:08,643 --> 00:48:10,323 don't think about -1074 +1062 00:48:10,324 --> 00:48:11,929 -why something feels great, or -like why something is, because I +why something feels great or, +like, why something is because I -1075 +1063 00:48:11,929 --> 00:48:13,534 enjoy -1076 +1064 00:48:13,563 --> 00:48:14,913 -it, you know what I mean? And it --- that's okay too [laughs]. +it, you know what I mean? And +it-- that's okay too [laughs]. -1077 +1065 00:48:14,913 --> 00:48:16,263 Like, it's -1078 +1066 00:48:16,264 --> 00:48:19,673 -okay to just enjoy things. But +okay to just enjoy things. But, like, this is why we wanted to -1079 +1067 00:48:19,673 --> 00:48:20,803 talk about this. This is- this is the other side of the coin. -1080 +1068 00:48:20,803 --> 00:48:21,933 -And it's like [clear-throat] +And it's, like, [clears throat] -1081 +1069 00:48:23,704 --> 00:48:25,428 we use it so that we can help support it. We are thinking very -1082 +1070 00:48:25,428 --> 00:48:27,152 hard -1083 +1071 00:48:27,153 --> 00:48:30,116 about why, you know? And- and- -and how we can do more. So, +and how we can do more. So-- -1084 +1072 00:48:30,116 --> 00:48:33,079 yeah. And it's- -1085 -00:48:33,349 --> 00:48:34,804 +1073 +00:48:33,349 --> 00:48:36,259 it's hard, but it's fun. It's also fun and very gratifying -1086 -00:48:34,804 --> 00:48:36,259 -too. - -1087 +1074 00:48:36,259 --> 00:48:36,528 -So -- +too. So-- -1088 +1075 00:48:37,483 --> 00:48:37,994 -Kirk: There are people -- +Kirk: There are people-- -1089 +1076 00:48:38,059 --> 00:48:38,539 Dan: I'm excited. -1090 +1077 00:48:39,403 --> 00:48:43,273 -Kirk: Yeah. So I'm just gonna- +Kirk: Yeah. So, I'm just gonna- just gonna set the tone by -1091 +1078 00:48:43,273 --> 00:48:46,934 saying a bunch of buzzwords related to this scalability, -1092 +1079 00:48:47,443 --> 00:48:50,153 continuous integration, [chuckles] continuous -1093 +1080 00:48:50,153 --> 00:48:52,863 deployment. Because I -1094 +1081 00:48:52,864 --> 00:48:54,229 -can't help -- even as we're +can't help-- even as we're talking about this, I'm like ... -1095 +1082 00:48:54,229 --> 00:48:55,594 I dunno. Like, -1096 +1083 00:48:55,594 --> 00:48:56,764 kind of feels like that other stuff that I talk too much -1097 +1084 00:48:56,764 --> 00:48:57,934 about. -1098 +1085 00:48:58,503 --> 00:49:00,663 -But nice. It's- it's sort of -- -it's- it's the same -- it's- +But nice. It's- it's sort of-- +it's- it's the same-- it's- -1099 +1086 00:49:00,663 --> 00:49:02,823 it's a -1100 +1087 00:49:02,824 --> 00:49:07,893 similar concept of ... there is -a thing that you are a part of +a thing that you are a part of, -1101 +1088 00:49:07,893 --> 00:49:13,233 and you're working on, and, you know, if- if that big core -1102 +1089 00:49:13,233 --> 00:49:15,963 -concept is there, and like the +concept is there, and, like, the people are there, and the energy -1103 +1090 00:49:15,963 --> 00:49:18,423 is there, it grows. And that's good. But there are different -1104 +1091 00:49:18,423 --> 00:49:20,883 problems -1105 +1092 00:49:20,884 --> 00:49:23,134 -at different sizes. And like, +at different sizes. And, like, part of keeping something going -1106 +1093 00:49:23,134 --> 00:49:25,384 is -1107 -00:49:25,384 --> 00:49:30,483 -knowing like, not just how to be -the like plucky up and coming +1094 +00:49:25,384 --> 00:49:27,933 +knowing, like, not just how to +be the, like, plucky up and -1108 +1095 +00:49:27,933 --> 00:49:30,482 +coming + +1096 00:49:30,483 --> 00:49:34,293 thing, but also how to be this sort of like mature, ongoing -1109 +1097 00:49:34,293 --> 00:49:37,893 thing. And we're- we're at that point. Which is a good point -1110 +1098 00:49:37,893 --> 00:49:40,023 to be, you know? I don't know what the- the tech equivalent -1111 +1099 00:49:40,023 --> 00:49:42,153 is. -1112 +1100 00:49:42,454 --> 00:49:45,844 Series C ... I don't know the words. -1113 +1101 00:49:46,054 --> 00:49:49,443 Bekah: [Chuckles] That's right. We're Series C community. -1114 +1102 00:49:50,818 --> 00:49:52,469 Kirk: Sure. That sounds fine. -1115 +1103 00:49:52,943 --> 00:49:53,784 Dan: Capital C. -1116 +1104 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:54,000 Bekah: Yeah. -1117 +1105 00:49:55,949 --> 00:49:56,599 -Kirk: You can tell the nearest --- +Kirk: You can tell the nearest-- -1118 +1106 00:49:58,773 --> 00:50:01,833 Dan: Or a capital C++ community [laughs]. -1119 +1107 00:50:03,148 --> 00:50:03,599 Kirk: Oh, no. -1120 +1108 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:05,000 -Bekah: Not, Dan. +Bekah: Not-- Dan. -1121 +1109 00:50:05,853 --> 00:50:07,923 Dan: I see if I can get Kirk to yell at me about C++ -1122 +1110 00:50:07,923 --> 00:50:08,074 again [laughs]. -1123 +1111 00:50:10,329 --> 00:50:13,272 Kirk: I mean, I didn't yell at -you. You were just [Dan laughs] +you. You were just [Dan laughs], -1124 -00:50:13,272 --> 00:50:16,215 -like -- you were like walked the -difference between C# and C++. +1112 +00:50:13,272 --> 00:50:14,743 +like-- you were, like, walked +the difference between C# and -1125 +1113 +00:50:14,743 --> 00:50:16,214 +C++. + +1114 00:50:16,215 --> 00:50:19,158 -And then I immediately thought -of +And then, I immediately thought +of, -1126 +1115 00:50:19,159 --> 00:50:22,413 -like a thousand thoughts at a +like, a thousand thoughts at a time. I'm like, "Will you get it -1127 +1116 00:50:22,413 --> 00:50:25,667 back, or watch it," you know? -1128 +1117 00:50:25,909 --> 00:50:26,989 Dan: Oh, man. -1129 +1118 00:50:27,338 --> 00:50:31,088 Bekah: Dan, you're derailing us. We have done so well. We- we- -1130 +1119 00:50:31,088 --> 00:50:31,088 -Dan: I -- listen. I -- +Dan: I-- listen. I-- -1131 +1120 00:50:31,088 --> 00:50:33,548 Bekah: -recovered from the initial intro question and then -1132 +1121 00:50:33,548 --> 00:50:36,008 we were- were -1133 +1122 00:50:36,018 --> 00:50:37,059 -good. And then you were like- +good. And then, you were like- -1134 +1123 00:50:37,188 --> 00:50:37,728 -Dan: I- [chuckles] I have a -- +Dan: I- [chuckles] I have a-- -1135 +1124 00:50:38,079 --> 00:50:39,653 -Bekah: -I'm going to break this +Bekah: -"I'm going to break this up before the end of the -1136 +1125 00:50:39,653 --> 00:50:41,227 -podcast. +podcast." -1137 +1126 00:50:42,139 --> 00:50:43,548 -Dan: I have -- just -- there- +Dan: I have-- just-- there- there is a- a set limit of the -1138 +1127 00:50:43,548 --> 00:50:44,957 amount of time that I can be -1139 +1128 00:50:44,958 --> 00:50:47,358 serious for [laughs] the amount of time straight. I'm sorry. -1140 +1129 00:50:47,358 --> 00:50:49,758 -I've -- I feel like I'm +I've-- I feel like I'm -1141 +1130 00:50:49,759 --> 00:50:50,763 proud of us too. I feel like we held it together for a long -1142 +1131 00:50:50,763 --> 00:50:51,767 time. -1143 +1132 00:50:52,188 --> 00:50:54,401 And we had some good- some good thoughts and stuff. But then -1144 +1133 00:50:54,401 --> 00:50:56,614 Kirk -1145 +1134 00:50:56,614 --> 00:50:57,663 -started yelling at me about C++ +started yelling at me about C++, and it all just went up from -1146 +1135 00:50:57,663 --> 00:50:58,712 there. -1147 +1136 00:50:58,744 --> 00:51:00,333 Bekah: He didn't yell at you during this podcast. -1148 -00:51:00,393 --> 00:51:01,773 -Dan: Yeah, no, no. I had him do -it. Yeah. No, it's -- that's - -1149 -00:51:01,773 --> 00:51:03,153 -what -- that's exactly what +1137 +00:51:00,393 --> 00:51:03,153 +Dan: Yeah-- no, no. I had him do +it. Yeah. No, it's-- that's -1150 +1138 00:51:03,153 --> 00:51:04,923 -happened. We're all -- +what-- that's exactly what +happened. We're all-- -1151 +1139 00:51:07,478 --> 00:51:07,925 Kirk: [Unintelligible] you let -me do it. It is -- this was +me do it. It is-- this was -1152 +1140 00:51:07,925 --> 00:51:08,372 -[laughs] ... one yo, you -[unintelligible]. +[laughs] ... "One yo, you +[unintelligible]." -1153 +1141 00:51:08,373 --> 00:51:09,678 Bekah: Okay, listen. I think the key takeaway from this podcast -1154 +1142 00:51:09,678 --> 00:51:10,983 is -1155 +1143 00:51:10,983 --> 00:51:14,943 Dan is the instigator in every- every one of these situations, -1156 +1144 00:51:14,943 --> 00:51:18,423 -okay. Go back and listen to all +okay? Go back and listen to all the podcast episodes. It is Dan. -1157 +1145 00:51:18,483 --> 00:51:18,753 Every time. -1158 -00:51:18,813 --> 00:51:19,963 +1146 +00:51:18,813 --> 00:51:21,113 Dan: Nope. There's always -somebody else there. And there +somebody else there. And there-- -1159 -00:51:19,963 --> 00:51:21,113 --- - -1160 +1147 00:51:21,184 --> 00:51:21,454 -the -- their- their fault. +the-- their- their fault. -1161 +1148 00:51:21,764 --> 00:51:23,054 -Bekah: Dan, it's- it's -- still +Bekah: Dan, it's- it's-- still [chuckles]. -1162 +1149 00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,838 Dan: If I was just on my own, I would get in no trouble. -1163 +1150 00:51:26,838 --> 00:51:26,838 -Bekah: Oh yeah. +Bekah: Oh, yeah. -1164 +1151 00:51:26,838 --> 00:51:28,919 Dan: And that's not true -[laughs]. Oh- oh, also -- oh, +[laughs]. Oh- oh, also-- oh, -1165 +1152 00:51:28,919 --> 00:51:31,000 -no, this will be out -- +no, this will be out-- -1166 +1153 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:33,000 Bekah: [Whispers] Couple weeks. -1167 +1154 00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,734 Dan: This is gonna come out in a -couple of weeks. So we'll +couple of weeks. So, we'll -1168 +1155 00:51:34,734 --> 00:51:36,468 already have a couple, but Kirk -1169 +1156 00:51:36,469 --> 00:51:38,748 and I are starting a new streaming series called -1170 +1157 00:51:38,778 --> 00:51:41,000 -TypeScript Tuesdays. And -- +TypeScript Tuesdays. And-- -1171 +1158 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:42,000 -Kirk: I just want to -- +Kirk: I just want to-- -1172 +1159 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,409 -Dan: So, there'll be a couple of --- so- so come find us on the +Dan: So, there'll be a couple +of-- so- so, come find us on -1173 +1160 00:51:44,409 --> 00:51:46,818 -Virtual Coffee's stream on +the Virtual Coffee's stream on Twitch. It's VirtualCoffeeIO- -1174 +1161 00:51:47,693 --> 00:51:48,204 -Kirk: I just wanna -- +Kirk: I just wanna-- -1175 +1162 00:51:47,693 --> 00:51:48,204 Bekah: VirtualCoffeeIO. -1176 +1163 00:51:48,228 --> 00:51:51,829 -Dan: -I think like that. But, +Dan: -I think like that. But-- yeah. I imagine that Kirk is -1177 +1164 00:51:51,829 --> 00:51:53,629 going to be yelling at me a lot, -there, too. So if you like +there, too. So, if you like -1178 +1165 00:51:53,629 --> 00:51:55,429 hearing -1179 +1166 00:51:55,489 --> 00:51:57,439 -Kirk yell at me [laughs] — he's +Kirk yell at me [laughs]—he's holding his breath very -1180 +1167 00:51:57,439 --> 00:51:59,389 aggressively right -1181 +1168 00:51:59,389 --> 00:52:02,208 -now — so [Dan and Bekah laugh], +now—so [Dan and Bekah laugh], come join us on Twitch every -1182 +1169 00:52:02,208 --> 00:52:05,027 Tuesday as well [laughs]. -1183 +1170 00:52:06,414 --> 00:52:08,423 Bekah: Yeah. And I think that's -something that we're working on +something that we're working on, -1184 -00:52:08,423 --> 00:52:11,748 +1171 +00:52:08,423 --> 00:52:15,073 too. Like, while membership is closed, how do we provide ... -1185 -00:52:11,748 --> 00:52:15,073 -nope. - -1186 +1172 00:52:15,103 --> 00:52:17,173 -My brain stopped. How do we -provide -- +nope. My brain stopped. How do +we provide-- -1187 -00:52:17,313 --> 00:52:18,573 +1173 +00:52:17,313 --> 00:52:19,833 Kirk: Finding other [??] spaces where we get to interact with -1188 -00:52:18,573 --> 00:52:19,833 -people outside of - -1189 +1174 00:52:19,833 --> 00:52:20,253 -the community? +people outside of the community? -1190 +1175 00:52:21,193 --> 00:52:23,000 Bekah: Yes. Value to the external tech community. -1191 +1176 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:23,000 Dan: Yes. -1192 +1177 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,403 Bekah: That was what I like to go. -1193 +1178 00:52:24,664 --> 00:52:28,000 Dan: Yes! Oh! And Bekah started that Twitter ... that was- -1194 +1179 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:29,000 Bekah: Chat. Yes! -1195 +1180 00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:30,207 -Dan: -tweet -- Twitter chat. +Dan: -tweet-- Twitter chat. That's what we call it. Yeah. -1196 +1181 00:52:30,207 --> 00:52:31,414 Yeah. -1197 +1182 00:52:31,728 --> 00:52:32,659 -Bekah: Yeah. So -- +Bekah: Yeah. So-- -1198 +1183 00:52:32,733 --> 00:52:32,914 Dan: How did that go? -1199 +1184 00:52:33,619 --> 00:52:37,009 Bekah: It went pretty well. It was fun. I have some ideas for -1200 +1185 00:52:37,009 --> 00:52:42,259 some ways to update it. So, basically I took the intro -1201 +1186 00:52:42,259 --> 00:52:47,389 -question and the backpocket -topic and put it out there for +question, and the backpocket +topic, and put it out there for -1202 +1187 00:52:47,389 --> 00:52:51,739 asynchronous Twitter chat last week. I did it on ... I think, a -1203 +1188 00:52:51,739 --> 00:52:56,239 Wednesday. So that was prior to doing the Thursday coffee. And -1204 +1189 00:52:56,268 --> 00:53:00,559 I'd love to be able to combine those two. So if we have related -1205 +1190 00:53:00,559 --> 00:53:04,938 topics, then what might work in the future is having an intro -1206 +1191 00:53:04,938 --> 00:53:08,719 question for people to get to know each other and including -1207 +1192 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,418 both of those conversations. And, you know, both of our- our -1208 +1193 00:53:11,418 --> 00:53:14,898 members who weren't able to attend can engage in those and -1209 +1194 00:53:15,168 --> 00:53:16,728 the external community as well. So, we'll try it out for a -1210 +1195 00:53:16,728 --> 00:53:18,288 while, -1211 +1196 00:53:18,289 --> 00:53:22,568 -see how it goes. And hopefully +see how it goes. And hopefully, people will find value in it. -1212 +1197 00:53:23,673 --> 00:53:25,534 Kirk: My topics will never be related [chuckles]. -1213 -00:53:27,708 --> 00:53:28,938 -Bekah: [Chuckles] They -- Kirk. +1198 +00:53:27,708 --> 00:53:30,168 +Bekah: [Chuckles] They-- Kirk. We're going to meet on Monday -1214 -00:53:28,938 --> 00:53:30,168 -and we're going to - -1215 +1199 00:53:30,168 --> 00:53:30,918 -figure it out. +and we're going to figure it +out. -1216 +1200 00:53:31,099 --> 00:53:33,721 Kirk: My topics only exist to -sow the seeds of chaos. And then +sow the seeds of chaos. And -1217 +1201 00:53:33,721 --> 00:53:36,343 -I +then, I -1218 +1202 00:53:36,344 --> 00:53:38,923 -have to spend half a day feeling --- +have to spend half a day +feeling-- -1219 +1203 00:53:38,958 --> 00:53:41,343 Bekah: Loki. You're Loki. I think next time we do this, we -1220 +1204 00:53:41,343 --> 00:53:43,728 -should -- we -- +should-- we-- -1221 +1205 00:53:43,728 --> 00:53:49,188 -our intro question should be -like, what character -- what +our intro question should be, +like, what character-- what -1222 +1206 00:53:49,188 --> 00:53:54,000 super villain would one of the other co-host be. -1223 +1207 00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:55,000 -Dan: Hm. I'll put -- +Dan: Hm. I'll put-- -1224 +1208 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,349 Bekah: So, like you, Dan, would have to say Kirk's super villain -1225 +1209 00:53:58,349 --> 00:54:01,698 -character, Kirk -- +character, Kirk-- -1226 +1210 00:54:02,188 --> 00:54:02,278 -Kirk: So you're talking through -him. You just say -- +Kirk: So, you're talking through +him. You just say-- -1227 +1211 00:54:02,389 --> 00:54:04,909 Dan: Okay. But we're saving- we're saving this for next time. -1228 +1212 00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:06,539 -Kirk: Yeah, I'm like -- I'm -putting -- +Kirk: Yeah, I'm, like-- I'm +putting-- -1229 +1213 00:54:06,619 --> 00:54:08,719 Bekah: Or unless you- unless you have it now. -1230 +1214 00:54:08,878 --> 00:54:09,583 Kirk: Putting the thought in your head now. [Unintelligible] -1231 +1215 00:54:09,583 --> 00:54:10,288 Doctor Doom. He's evil. -1232 +1216 00:54:10,789 --> 00:54:12,498 Dan: I don't- I don't- I don't have to think about it. Yeah. -1233 +1217 00:54:12,498 --> 00:54:14,207 Wait. Doctor- Doctor Doom? That what you said? -1234 +1218 00:54:14,509 --> 00:54:17,148 Kirk: Yes. Wait. What was that tone? Whoa. Whoa-whoa-whoa. -1235 +1219 00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:18,274 Dan: Oh, I thought you said Doctor Who for a second. And I -1236 +1220 00:54:18,274 --> 00:54:19,309 was a bit like, -1237 +1221 00:54:19,309 --> 00:54:20,628 "Doctor Who? I don't think he's a villain." -1238 +1222 00:54:21,128 --> 00:54:21,369 Kirk: Ah [unintelligible]. -1239 +1223 00:54:21,498 --> 00:54:22,998 -Dan: When you said Doctor Doom, +Dan: When you said Doctor Doom and then makes more sense. -1240 +1224 00:54:23,688 --> 00:54:25,618 Kirk: I can- I can upset an entire fandom right now -1241 +1225 00:54:25,618 --> 00:54:27,548 [laughs]. -1242 +1226 00:54:30,228 --> 00:54:32,028 Dan: [Laughs] I mean, go for it. -I -- I'm not a Doctor Who -- I +I-- I'm not a Doctor Who-- I -1243 +1227 00:54:32,028 --> 00:54:33,828 mean, I'm not a -1244 +1228 00:54:33,829 --> 00:54:34,000 not-fan- -1245 +1229 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,000 Kirk: You can call [unintelligible] 'Whovians'. -1246 +1230 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:35,339 -Dan: -but I'm not a fan either, -so you're not gonna make me +Dan: -but I'm not a fan either. +So you're not gonna make me -1247 +1231 00:54:35,339 --> 00:54:36,678 upset. -1248 +1232 00:54:36,884 --> 00:54:38,308 Bekah: I've only seen one episode of "Doctor Who" and I -1249 +1233 00:54:38,308 --> 00:54:39,732 think mannequins -1250 +1234 00:54:39,733 --> 00:54:42,523 came alive or something. And I -was like, it was not for me. +was like, "It was not for me." -1251 +1235 00:54:42,739 --> 00:54:44,749 Kirk: They call themselves -'Whovians' and it sounds like +'Whovians', and it sounds like -1252 +1236 00:54:44,749 --> 00:54:46,759 children got abused [??]. -1253 +1237 00:54:47,983 --> 00:54:48,000 Bekah: You mean from "Whoville"? With lil'- -1254 +1238 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:48,000 Kirk: Exactly. -1255 +1239 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:49,500 Bekah: -little Cindy Lou Who? [Crosstalk] Holding hands and -1256 +1240 00:54:49,500 --> 00:54:51,000 sing? -1257 +1241 00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:51,000 Kirk: You sound like rapa-pam-pam-pam. -1258 +1242 00:54:51,168 --> 00:54:54,889 Dan: Cindy Lou Whovian. -1259 +1243 00:54:54,889 --> 00:54:55,679 Kirk: What were we talking about? -1260 -00:54:57,518 --> 00:54:59,978 +1244 +00:54:57,518 --> 00:54:58,748 Bekah: What a great podcast this -is and we're glad that everybody +is. And we're glad that -1261 +1245 +00:54:58,748 --> 00:54:59,978 +everybody + +1246 00:54:59,978 --> 00:55:04,059 has listened to all of Season 5. -Come back for Season 6, +Come back for Season 6 -1262 +1247 00:55:04,059 --> 00:55:05,199 to hear answers [laughs]. -1263 +1248 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:05,000 Dan: Yes. [Laughs] Please- please stay subscribed. -1264 +1249 00:55:05,733 --> 00:55:05,884 -Kirk: If you're listening -- +Kirk: If you're listening-- -1265 +1250 00:55:06,728 --> 00:55:08,438 Bekah: If you like our podcast, -please give us 5 stars, and +please give us 5 stars and -1266 +1251 00:55:08,438 --> 00:55:10,148 write a -1267 +1252 00:55:10,148 --> 00:55:13,298 comment to help other people find our podcast too. -1268 +1253 00:55:13,548 --> 00:55:18,469 Dan: Yes. If you write a comment -that -- oh, I was gonna say +that-- oh, I was gonna say -1269 +1254 00:55:18,469 --> 00:55:24,000 -something -- [laughs] I don't +something-- [laughs] I don't want to prejudge the comments. -1270 +1255 00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:24,000 -Kirk: Dan speak -- +Kirk: Dan speak-- -1271 -00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:26,219 +1256 +00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,438 Dan: I was gonna say, if you write a comment that's -1272 -00:55:26,219 --> 00:55:27,438 -interesting, we - -1273 +1257 00:55:27,438 --> 00:55:28,000 -might read it on the podcast. +interesting, we might read it on +the podcast. -1274 +1258 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:29,000 Bekah: Yes. -1275 +1259 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,336 -Dan: But like, don't make that, -you know, don't let that stop +Dan: But, like, don't make +that-- you know, don't let that -1276 +1260 00:55:32,336 --> 00:55:35,672 -you from writing a comment that -is ... not +stop you from writing a comment +that is ... not -1277 +1261 00:55:35,673 --> 00:55:36,063 interesting [laughs]. -1278 +1262 00:55:36,153 --> 00:55:38,000 Bekah: We find every comment interesting. -1279 +1263 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:38,000 Dan: Yes [laughs]! -1280 +1264 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:40,833 Bekah: So, write the comment. -1281 +1265 00:55:40,833 --> 00:55:43,264 Dan: We would hear from -everybody. So, yeah. If you +everybody. So-- yeah. If you -1282 +1266 00:55:43,264 --> 00:55:46,744 wanna send us any questions that you'd like us to answer in -1283 +1267 00:55:46,744 --> 00:55:50,043 -the future, or any ideas for the +the future or any ideas for the podcast, things like that, -1284 +1268 00:55:50,164 --> 00:55:54,483 we're always excited to hear any feedback, or questions, or -1285 +1269 00:55:54,483 --> 00:55:57,543 anything like that. So, yeah, podcast@virtualcoffee.io, -1286 +1270 00:55:57,963 --> 00:56:01,534 or Twitter, or Slack, or any of -that stuff too. +that stuff, too. -1287 +1271 00:56:03,114 --> 00:56:04,853 Bekah: Yeah. Thanks joining us for Season 5. -1288 +1272 00:56:05,059 --> 00:56:06,018 Dan: Yeah. Thank you. -1289 +1273 00:56:06,518 --> 00:56:09,463 Kirk: Thanks for coming to 'my' podcast [Dan and Bekah chuckle]. -1290 +1274 00:56:09,463 --> 00:56:12,408 See you later on 'my' podcast. Like, I let -1291 +1275 00:56:12,409 --> 00:56:17,298 Bekah and Dan be on because I'm nice, and I never yell. -1292 +1276 00:56:17,974 --> 00:56:20,284 Bekah: Thanks for allowing us to be on your podcast, Kirk. -1293 +1277 00:56:20,469 --> 00:56:21,759 Kirk: You're very welcome. -1294 +1278 00:56:23,329 --> 00:56:27,079 Dan: Kirk, I'll talk to you on Tuesday when ar- arguing with -1295 +1279 00:56:27,079 --> 00:56:28,219 you about tip- TypeScript [chuckles]. -1296 +1280 00:56:28,809 --> 00:56:30,458 Kirk: With hushed tones. And [unintelligible]. -1297 +1281 00:56:34,233 --> 00:56:37,380 Dan: [Laughs] Okay. Thank you for listening to this episode of -1298 +1282 00:56:37,380 --> 00:56:40,527 the Virtual -1299 +1283 00:56:40,528 --> 00:56:44,275 Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah -1300 +1284 00:56:44,275 --> 00:56:45,664 Hawrot Weigel. If you have questions or comments, you can -1301 +1285 00:56:45,664 --> 00:56:47,053 hit -1302 +1286 00:56:47,054 --> 00:56:50,065 us up on Twitter at VirtualCoffeeIO, or email us at -1303 +1287 00:56:50,065 --> 00:56:51,799 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up -1304 +1288 00:56:51,799 --> 00:56:53,533 for -1305 +1289 00:56:53,534 --> 00:56:55,574 the newsletter, check out any of our other resources on our -1306 +1290 00:56:55,574 --> 00:56:58,965 website, virtualcoffee.io. If you're interested in sponsoring -1307 +1291 00:56:58,965 --> 00:57:01,364 Virtual Coffee, you can find out more information on our website -1308 +1292 00:57:01,635 --> 00:57:06,074 at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. Please subscribe to our podcast, -1309 -00:57:06,105 --> 00:57:07,710 +1293 +00:57:06,105 --> 00:57:09,315 and be sure to leave us a review. Thanks for listening, -1310 -00:57:07,710 --> 00:57:09,315 -and we'll - -1311 +1294 00:57:09,315 --> 00:57:10,155 -see you next week. \ No newline at end of file +and we'll see you next week. \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/episodes/5_999.srt b/episodes/5_999.srt index 559a3d0..a99e2a8 100644 --- a/episodes/5_999.srt +++ b/episodes/5_999.srt @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ 1 00:00:05,181 --> 00:00:07,370 -Dan Ott: Hello, and welcome to a +Dan Ott: Hello and welcome to a special Kirk Day Bonus Episode 2 @@ -28,8 +28,8 @@ their coding 7 00:00:21,498 --> 00:00:25,368 -journey. And they're here on -this podcast, usually, sharing +journey. And they're here, on +this podcast, usually sharing 8 00:00:25,368 --> 00:00:28,189 @@ -63,7 +63,7 @@ And also, Kirk joined us as 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,959 -well, and it was really fun. And +well and it was really fun. And it was a fun little thing. We 15 @@ -78,8 +78,8 @@ would share it on the podcast 17 00:00:54,618 --> 00:01:00,000 -stream as well. So enjoy, and -next week we will get back to +stream as well. So, enjoy. And +next week, we will get back to 18 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:10,000 @@ -108,7 +108,7 @@ like, "Huh?" I looked at the 23 00:01:19,700 --> 00:01:20,537 -mute thing and -- +mute thing and-- 24 00:01:21,496 --> 00:01:23,000 @@ -165,7 +165,7 @@ celebrating national Kirk Day or 36 00:01:37,816 --> 00:01:40,757 -international Kirk Day as we +International Kirk Day as we more fondly know it at Virtual 37 @@ -178,13 +178,13 @@ Dan: Intergalactic Kirk Day? 39 00:01:43,996 --> 00:01:47,147 -Bekah: Intra galactic? Inter- I +Bekah: Intragalactic? Inter- I was gonna say disciplinary. That 40 00:01:47,147 --> 00:01:49,500 is not the right word. -Dimensional -- interdimensional +Dimensional-- Interdimensional 41 00:01:49,500 --> 00:01:50,057 @@ -215,12 +215,12 @@ Dan: Agreed. 47 00:01:58,500 --> 00:02:01,186 Bekah: Dan, would you like to -introduce what international, +introduce what International, 48 00:02:01,277 --> 00:02:03,917 -dimensional, disciplinary Kirk -day is [chuckles]? +Dimensional, Disciplinary Kirk +Day is [chuckles]? 49 00:02:05,027 --> 00:02:08,000 @@ -236,12 +236,12 @@ Dan: Two years ago? Today? Yes, 52 00:02:10,757 --> 00:02:16,300 -Kirk had a tweet where he -- -should I -- how should I read +Kirk had a tweet where he-- +should I-- how should I read 53 00:02:16,300 --> 00:02:16,500 -the -- +the-- 54 00:02:16,500 --> 00:02:17,800 @@ -259,8 +259,8 @@ Bekah: Post it in the chat too. 57 00:02:21,300 --> 00:02:24,521 -Dan: The- the- the -- this is -it, right? +Dan: The- the- the-- this is it, +right? 58 00:02:24,521 --> 00:02:24,700 @@ -273,7 +273,7 @@ Dan: Yeah. So, Kirk tweeted, 60 00:02:29,500 --> 00:02:30,412 -dream. My -- I +dream. My-- I 61 00:02:30,412 --> 00:02:32,801 @@ -292,7 +292,7 @@ that, Missy Elliott responded 64 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,700 -[chuckles], replied on Twitter. +[chuckles]-- replied on Twitter. Actual Missy Elliott. Not- not a 65 @@ -301,18 +301,18 @@ fake Missy Elliott. 66 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,000 -Bekah: The Missy Elliott. That's --- +Bekah: The Missy Elliott. +That's-- 67 00:02:47,500 --> 00:02:50,592 Dan: And- and said something -like, yeah, she said, "Wow, I'm +like-- yeah, she said, "Wow, I'm 68 00:02:50,592 --> 00:02:53,366 -humbly -- I'm so humbly -grateful. Much love to y'all." +humbly-- I'm so humbly grateful. +Much love to y'all." 69 00:02:53,366 --> 00:02:56,140 @@ -321,12 +321,12 @@ And that 70 00:02:56,141 --> 00:02:59,981 was the beginning of a legend. -It was- it was really, really +It was-- it was really, really 71 00:02:59,981 --> 00:03:03,700 awesome [laughs]. And everybody -saw it, and Kirk's, you know, +saw it and Kirk's, you know, 72 00:03:03,700 --> 00:03:03,822 @@ -334,7468 +334,7549 @@ Twitter ... 73 00:03:04,542 --> 00:03:10,000 -well, let's see what the -- it- -it- it Kirk's tweet got a one +well, let's see what the-- it- +it- it Kirk's tweet got a one-- 74 00:03:10,300 --> 00:03:13,700 --- 13.3 thousand retweets -[laughs] and a hundred -- +13.3 thousand retweets [laughs] +and a hundred-- 75 -00:03:13,700 --> 00:03:15,700 -Bekah: A hundred and 70 -[chuckles] -- 70 thousand like. +00:03:13,700 --> 00:03:14,700 +Bekah: A hundred and seventy +[chuckles]-- seventy thousand 76 +00:03:14,700 --> 00:03:15,700 +like. + +77 00:03:15,700 --> 00:03:18,282 Dan: Yeah. And it's really good stuff. -77 +78 00:03:18,882 --> 00:03:21,117 -Bekah: It -- but not only that, -not only was it just YouTube, +Bekah: It-- but not only that, +not only was it just YouTube -78 +79 00:03:21,117 --> 00:03:26,300 but it expanded. So this was not a one day event. It was- -79 +80 00:03:26,300 --> 00:03:26,700 Dan: Yeah. -80 +81 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:28,000 Bekah: -it was on Twitter, -81 +82 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:33,000 it was on LinkedIn, it was on Reddit. Everybody loves Kirk. -82 +83 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:37,151 -Dan: Yes. And we all are -- +Dan: Yes. And we all are-- already loved Kirk. And this is -83 +84 00:03:37,151 --> 00:03:40,122 just a sort of celebration of- of the rest of the world, -84 +85 00:03:40,181 --> 00:03:40,500 right? -85 +86 00:03:40,500 --> 00:03:40,700 Bekah: Yeah. -86 +87 00:03:40,700 --> 00:03:43,000 Dan: Be-becoming aware of- of -the Kirk. +The Kirk. -87 +88 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,822 Bekah: So maybe we should tell our Kirk origin story. -88 +89 00:03:47,771 --> 00:03:51,000 Dan: I think that's a great idea [laughs]. Do you want me to -89 +90 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,000 go first? Do you wanna go first? -90 +91 00:03:52,700 --> 00:03:53,300 Bekah: You go first. -91 +92 00:03:53,300 --> 00:03:55,122 -Dan: Alright. I don't -- I mean, -I, like -- I don't have a +Dan: Alright. I don't-- I mean, +I, like-- I don't have a -92 +93 00:03:55,122 --> 00:03:56,967 -specific -- I don't remember -the, like, moment, right? Of- of +specific-- I don't remember the, +like, moment, right? Of- of -93 +94 00:03:56,967 --> 00:03:58,812 meeting -94 +95 00:03:58,812 --> 00:04:03,056 Kirk. Cuz that was back in the -time of Virtual Coffee being -- +time of Virtual Coffee being-- -95 +96 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:04,500 Bekah: A tiny baby. -96 +97 00:04:04,500 --> 00:04:08,097 Dan: Yes. Very s- a little smaller, you know? And so, we -97 +98 00:04:08,097 --> 00:04:15,700 -had Slack, we had the coffees, -obviously. But -- and I'm not +had Slack, we had the Coffees, +obviously. But-- and I'm not -98 +99 00:04:15,700 --> 00:04:20,000 a person who ... I don't know. I don't know a lot of people -99 +100 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:20,786 -[laughs]. I don't really +[laughs]. I don't really-- -100 +101 00:04:20,786 --> 00:04:23,307 --- like, people don't stick in -my brain until- until we, like, +like, people don't stick in my +brain until- until we, like, -101 +102 00:04:23,307 --> 00:04:27,357 interact. You know what I mean? And so, my thing with Kirk was- -102 +103 00:04:27,387 --> 00:04:29,786 -was really the Hacktoberfest. -Was really, like, leading up +was really the Hacktoberfest-- +was really, like, leading up -103 +104 00:04:29,786 --> 00:04:32,431 to Hacktoberfest that year. So it was two years ago. And ... -104 +105 00:04:32,431 --> 00:04:38,997 Bekah and I, you know, we worked together and I had known Sarah -105 +106 00:04:38,997 --> 00:04:42,700 because she was, you know, like, she was already, like, helping -106 +107 00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:47,201 with Virtual Coffee and all that stuff. And I could just -107 +108 00:04:47,201 --> 00:04:49,700 kinda wrote me in, right? For Hacktoberfest to, like, help. -108 +109 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:50,300 -Bekah: You -- okay. +Bekah: You-- okay. -109 +110 00:04:50,500 --> 00:04:51,000 Dan: And I was excited. -110 +111 00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:52,700 Bekah: To be fair, you were like, "If you need help with -111 +112 00:04:52,700 --> 00:04:54,641 anything, let me know." -112 +113 00:04:54,641 --> 00:04:56,000 Dan: I may have said that. -113 +114 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,000 Bekah: So, if you offer to help, you will [chuckles]. -114 +115 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,500 -Dan: It's true. Yes, most -people find that about -- out +Dan: It's true. Yes, most people +find that about-- out -115 +116 00:05:02,500 --> 00:05:07,700 -about that eventually. But, +about that eventually. But-- yeah. So, Kirk was there too, -116 +117 00:05:07,700 --> 00:05:09,500 -right? And I have, like -- I, -like -- you- you know, +right? And I have, like-- I, +like-- you- you know, -117 +118 00:05:09,500 --> 00:05:11,700 I'd heard his name or whatever. -I, you know, we had been -- +I, you know, we had been-- -118 +119 00:05:11,700 --> 00:05:12,700 Bekah: But he wasn't Kirk at that point. -119 +120 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:14,000 Dan: He was still TK. -120 +121 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:14,800 Bekah: He was still TK. -121 +122 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,300 Dan: That's right. He was just -the mysterious TK, which made +the mysterious TK which made -122 +123 00:05:18,300 --> 00:05:23,500 me, you know, want to know him -more, you know? Because, anyway, +more, you know? Because-- -123 +124 00:05:23,500 --> 00:05:24,300 -that has a mysterious name, you -know? You need to- +anyway, that has a mysterious +name, you know? You need to- -124 +125 00:05:24,300 --> 00:05:25,500 Bekah: Mm-hmm. Yeah. You need to know- -125 +126 00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:26,000 -Dan: -know more -- +Dan: -know more-- -126 +127 00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:27,000 Bekah: -more of the story. -127 +128 00:05:27,672 --> 00:05:29,831 -Dan: And, yeah. And then that -- -so that -- it was like that +Dan: And-- yeah. And then that-- +so that-- it was, like, that -128 +129 00:05:29,831 --> 00:05:32,569 September leading up to that -October. It was a lot of +October. It was a lot of-- -129 +130 00:05:32,569 --> 00:05:35,307 --- Kirk and I were +Kirk and I were-- -130 +131 00:05:35,307 --> 00:05:37,976 --- I mean, I was working on the +I mean, I was working on the site and that's when the -131 +132 00:05:37,976 --> 00:05:40,000 -first like this -- the current +first, like, this-- the current version of the site happened, -132 +133 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,000 -you know? We made the leap with -like -- that which has brought +you know? We made the leap with, +like-- that which has brought -133 +134 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,107 us the site -134 +135 00:05:43,107 --> 00:05:45,357 for Virtual Coffee where we're doing all that stuff. And so, I -135 +136 00:05:45,357 --> 00:05:49,700 would be up in the middle of the night [chuckles]. And Kirk was -136 +137 00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:53,000 usual- usually there too. And we -would like talk, and, you know, +would, like, talk, and, you -137 +138 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:53,700 -throw ideas back +know, throw ideas back -138 +139 00:05:53,700 --> 00:05:56,700 and forth, and think about things. And then he was doing a -139 +140 00:05:56,700 --> 00:06:00,000 lot of the work on the ... I -dunno. More -- +dunno. More-- -140 +141 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:00,700 Bekah: Documentation part. -141 +142 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,000 Dan: Yeah, social aspect of it, the documentation, you know, -142 +143 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,497 thinking about how, like, people are going -143 +144 00:06:04,497 --> 00:06:07,976 to interact with Virtual Coffee, -and like how we need may- +and, like, how we need may- -144 +145 00:06:08,307 --> 00:06:11,156 resources for maintainers, and what those could look like, and -145 +146 00:06:11,156 --> 00:06:12,896 things like that. And so I -gained a lot of like -- both, it +gained a lot of, like, both-- it -146 +147 00:06:12,896 --> 00:06:14,636 -was like fun to +was, like, fun to -147 +148 00:06:14,637 --> 00:06:16,947 hang out with him. And again, a lot of, like, respect for -148 +149 00:06:16,947 --> 00:06:21,086 him, you know, at the same time. -So- so, yeah. And then after +So- so-- yeah. And then after -149 +150 00:06:21,086 --> 00:06:23,906 -that, it was just like, we're +that, it was just, like, we're just talking every day and had -150 +151 00:06:24,237 --> 00:06:25,000 been doing that for- -151 +152 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:26,300 Bekah: Ever? -152 +153 00:06:26,300 --> 00:06:28,526 Dan: -the last ... million -years? I don't -- it feels +years? I don't-- it feels -153 +154 00:06:28,526 --> 00:06:29,500 -like -- I don't- I don't know. +like-- I don't- I don't know. -154 +155 00:06:29,500 --> 00:06:30,500 Bekah: In all the dimension? -155 +156 00:06:30,500 --> 00:06:33,700 Dan: You know, in- in multiple dimensions. I'd say, if we're -156 +157 00:06:33,700 --> 00:06:37,500 gonna use MCU, you know, terminology though, Kirk would -157 +158 00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:41,700 -be like a Nexus being, right? -So, there's only like, one Kirk- +be like a Nexus being, right? So +there's only, like, one Kirk- -158 +159 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:42,300 Bekah: Yes. Mm-hmm. -159 +160 00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:43,500 Dan: -across the dimensions. -This -- +This-- -160 +161 00:06:43,500 --> 00:06:44,000 Bekah: Yes. -161 +162 00:06:44,500 --> 00:06:46,500 -Dan: He's -- our Kirk [??]- +Dan: He's-- our Kirk [??]- -162 +163 00:06:46,500 --> 00:06:46,700 Bekah: Our Kirk [??]. -163 +164 00:06:46,700 --> 00:06:47,500 Dan: -our Kirk [??] is prime -Kirk in there -- +Kirk in there-- -164 +165 00:06:47,300 --> 00:06:47,700 Bekah: All the Kirks. -165 +166 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:48,700 Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. -166 +167 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:49,300 Bekah: Yeah. -167 +168 00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:50,000 Dan: That's what I mean. Yeah. -168 +169 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:50,300 Bekah: For sure. -169 +170 00:06:50,300 --> 00:06:50,500 Dan: Yeah. -170 +171 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,076 Bekah: He's the right Kirk. -171 +172 00:06:53,547 --> 00:06:54,146 Dan: Exactly [laughs]. -172 +173 00:06:56,427 --> 00:07:01,400 Bekah: I will tell my Kirk origin story. I don't remember -173 +174 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:01,557 it -174 +175 00:07:01,557 --> 00:07:05,637 exactly, but I have known Kirk longer than most of the people -175 +176 00:07:05,637 --> 00:07:08,500 I've known at Virtual Coffee. But back when I knew Kirk, he -176 +177 00:07:08,500 --> 00:07:13,500 -was like a -- maybe a python +was, like, a-- maybe a python image or a snake icon? -177 +178 00:07:13,500 --> 00:07:14,000 Dan: Oh, yeah, yeah. -178 +179 00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:14,700 Bekah: He was not- -179 +180 00:07:14,700 --> 00:07:15,000 -Dan: Yeah. He -- +Dan: Yeah. He-- -180 +181 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:16,991 Bekah: -I didn't know his face. And then he started coming to -181 +182 00:07:16,991 --> 00:07:18,836 Virtual Coffee, -182 +183 00:07:19,286 --> 00:07:25,646 and I am really ... like, nervous when I meet new people. -183 +184 00:07:26,036 --> 00:07:30,000 And then, I was like, "I think this person knows me?" And I had -184 +185 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,500 to try and figure it out [laughs]. -185 +186 00:07:31,500 --> 00:07:33,206 And he would sit in this office, like, with this -186 +187 00:07:33,206 --> 00:07:38,966 flag behind him, and everybody's wearing masks back then when you -187 +188 00:07:38,966 --> 00:07:43,317 were on Zoom. And so I'm like, "Who is this person that is -188 +189 00:07:43,317 --> 00:07:47,127 coming? I'm very nervous about them." And then Kirk kept -189 +190 00:07:47,127 --> 00:07:50,000 showing up. I'm like, "Okay. -This is like, this- this person +This is, like, this- this person -190 +191 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,500 might be my friend. I think maybe we're moving into -191 +192 00:07:53,500 --> 00:07:54,566 friendship right now." -192 +193 00:07:54,987 --> 00:07:57,131 And then, when we were moving into Hacktoberfest, I was -193 +194 00:07:57,131 --> 00:07:59,275 like, "Hmm." -194 +195 00:08:01,286 --> 00:08:04,700 I don't know who suggested it. Somehow, Kirk ended up on the -195 +196 00:08:04,700 --> 00:08:10,766 Hacktoberfest team. And it was me, Dan, Sarah, Bryan, and Kirk. -196 +197 00:08:11,276 --> 00:08:15,000 And I feel like me, Sarah, Dan, and Bryan were like, -197 +198 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:16,500 "[Talks fast] Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk." -198 +199 00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:20,187 And Kirk was like, "Why don't we think about this for a second?" -199 +200 00:08:21,987 --> 00:08:26,000 -[All laugh] Like, "Yes, we shall --- probably should." +[All laugh] Like, "Yes, we +shall-- probably should." -200 +201 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,000 Dan: Notorious [??]. -201 +202 00:08:27,500 --> 00:08:32,500 Bekah: So, Kirk was always doing a great job of roping us all -202 +203 00:08:32,500 --> 00:08:35,300 back to having productive conversations and making -203 +204 00:08:35,300 --> 00:08:39,000 progress on all the things that we were really excited about -204 +205 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,500 -doing, and making sure that they -happen. And -- like, for me, I +doing and making sure that they +happen. And-- like, for me, I -205 +206 00:08:42,500 --> 00:08:46,486 -like -- had not really either am +like-- had not really either am heard about documentation, -206 +207 00:08:46,486 --> 00:08:49,697 like, talk about documentation [laughs]. Put like, "What is -207 +208 00:08:49,697 --> 00:08:52,456 that thing?" And then, like, -Kirk was like, breaking it down. +Kirk was like breaking it down, -208 +209 00:08:52,456 --> 00:08:54,826 -This is why documentation is -important. And then, you know, +"This is why documentation is +important." And then, you know, -209 +210 00:08:54,826 --> 00:08:58,037 Kirk has a teaching background too. And so it was like, "Okay, -210 +211 00:08:58,037 --> 00:09:00,256 this is starting to click a little bit more for me." And to, -211 +212 00:09:00,256 --> 00:09:04,366 like, show how you can help more people through the documentation -212 +213 00:09:04,636 --> 00:09:08,836 -became something that was like a -change in my life, you +became something that was, like, +a change in my life, you -213 +214 00:09:08,836 --> 00:09:11,700 -know? I will make no big deal, -but [laughs] -- +know? I will make no big deal +but [laughs]-- -214 +215 00:09:11,700 --> 00:09:12,300 Dan: No biggie. -215 +216 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,246 Bekah: [Laughs] That's all. So, all right. I'm -216 +217 00:09:16,246 --> 00:09:19,067 gonna check out the chat now. -That's my- my Kirk origin story, +That's my- my Kirk origin story -217 +218 00:09:19,067 --> 00:09:22,336 and this is how he's become to be my best friend ever since. -218 +219 00:09:22,336 --> 00:09:27,047 Dan: Yeah. So we just got a comment from David saying, -219 +220 00:09:27,057 --> 00:09:28,876 "So cool to see you in the same -place -- physical place." Yeah. +place-- physical place." Yeah. -220 +221 00:09:28,907 --> 00:09:31,216 This is the first time that we have, like, actually met in real -221 +222 00:09:31,216 --> 00:09:34,226 life. And we started working together ... when did we start -222 +223 00:09:34,226 --> 00:09:34,700 working together? -223 +224 00:09:34,700 --> 00:09:37,496 -Bekah: July -- this will be -- -so, it would've been three years +Bekah: July-- this will be-- so, +it would've been three years -224 +225 00:09:37,496 --> 00:09:37,700 in July. -225 +226 00:09:37,700 --> 00:09:39,500 -Dan: Yeah. Before -- I mean, -bef- before Virtual Coffee. +Dan: Yeah. Before-- I mean, bef- +before Virtual Coffee. -226 +227 00:09:39,500 --> 00:09:40,000 Like, we were working- -227 +228 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:40,300 Bekah: Yeah. -228 +229 00:09:40,437 --> 00:09:43,700 Dan: -together before Virtual -Coffee started. And -- I mean -- +Coffee started. And-- I mean-- -229 +230 00:09:42,356 --> 00:09:44,700 Bekah: Dan fired me. And that's how Virtual Coffee started -230 +231 00:09:44,700 --> 00:09:44,746 [laughs]. -231 +232 00:09:44,746 --> 00:09:47,037 Dan: As soon as I said that, I knew you were gonna say that. I -232 +233 00:09:47,037 --> 00:09:49,500 did not ... fire ... Bekah. -233 +234 00:09:49,500 --> 00:09:51,700 Bekah: You did. My kids got sent home from school, and then I -234 +235 00:09:51,700 --> 00:09:54,716 came home, and Dan was like, "Sorry, you're fired. Good luck -235 +236 00:09:54,716 --> 00:09:55,000 [laughs]." -236 +237 00:09:57,300 --> 00:10:01,248 Dan: Listen. I mean, sometimes you have to fire peep- people -237 +238 00:10:01,248 --> 00:10:03,760 [laughs]. I didn't fire you, o-okay? -238 +239 00:10:03,761 --> 00:10:07,201 -You were a contractor, and so, I +You were a contractor, and so I just stopped paying you, and you -239 +240 00:10:07,211 --> 00:10:08,000 stopped doing work [laughs]. -240 +241 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,000 Bekah: You're the worst [laughs]. -241 +242 00:10:10,500 --> 00:10:13,700 Dan: In my defense, I didn't have any money to pay you with -242 +243 00:10:13,700 --> 00:10:14,000 -[all laugh]. So -- +[all laugh]. So-- -243 +244 00:10:14,500 --> 00:10:15,500 -Bekah: It will get so -- +Bekah: It will get so-- -244 +245 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:16,756 Dan: I didn't have any work for you to do. -245 +246 00:10:16,756 --> 00:10:18,491 Bekah: All right. Fine. Fine. Fine. -246 +247 00:10:18,491 --> 00:10:21,700 I'll be fair. It was pandemic. And there was no work. -247 +248 00:10:21,700 --> 00:10:26,500 -So, [laughs] he fired me on +So [laughs] he fired me on accident, apparently. -248 +249 00:10:26,500 --> 00:10:27,462 Dan: Yeah. Nick knew you're gonna say that as well. -249 +250 00:10:27,462 --> 00:10:29,892 You're becoming predictable. -250 +251 00:10:31,601 --> 00:10:33,500 Bekah: [Laughs] But I feel like we've had a lot of new members -251 +252 00:10:33,500 --> 00:10:36,500 that might not have known that you fired me many times -252 +253 00:10:36,500 --> 00:10:37,001 ago [laughs]. -253 +254 00:10:39,731 --> 00:10:45,432 Dan: So, anyway, yes. So, I don't know about you, -254 +255 00:10:45,432 --> 00:10:50,500 Bekah. I spent a lot of time, like, I'm like, "Okay. So, what -255 +256 00:10:50,500 --> 00:10:51,300 do I wear when -256 +257 00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:54,011 I meet a person for the first -time, that I've, like, worked +time that I've, like, worked -257 +258 00:10:54,011 --> 00:10:56,682 closely with for three years?" Obviously, Virtual Coffee -258 +259 00:10:56,682 --> 00:11:00,700 -stuff. I -- Bekah w-wore the +stuff. I-- Bekah w-wore the t-shirt and the hoodie. I- I -259 +260 00:11:00,700 --> 00:11:01,741 -just wear those -- +just wear those-- -260 +261 00:11:01,741 --> 00:11:02,412 Bekah: I understood the assignment. -261 +262 00:11:02,500 --> 00:11:04,721 Dan: Yeah. Well, we didn't talk about it ahead of -262 +263 00:11:04,721 --> 00:11:07,300 times. I almost, like, texted -you. I almost, like, I almost +you. I almost-- like, I almost -263 +264 00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:10,000 -asked you, and I should have. +asked you and I should have. Because then we could have just -264 +265 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:11,000 been totally, you know? -265 +266 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,152 Bekah: Oh, wait. Arjun joined and wants to know who -266 +267 00:11:13,152 --> 00:11:14,532 fired me. Dan fired me [laughs]. -267 +268 00:11:14,532 --> 00:11:20,300 Dan: No, I did not fire you [all laugh]. I hate this. I'm -268 +269 00:11:20,300 --> 00:11:21,491 shutting this stream down. -269 +270 00:11:21,491 --> 00:11:24,131 Bekah: No, wait. Yeah, [inaudible] [laughs]. -270 +271 00:11:24,131 --> 00:11:27,731 So, okay. So maybe let's go back a little bit so I can -271 +272 00:11:27,731 --> 00:11:31,182 tell the full story and give Dan the credit that he is owned. -272 +273 00:11:31,211 --> 00:11:34,422 I'm a career changer. I spent 10 years teaching college English, -273 +274 00:11:34,782 --> 00:11:38,922 and I went to bootcamp. And when I graduated, I put out a tweet -274 +275 00:11:38,922 --> 00:11:43,000 saying that I was looking for a job. And Dan responded, and -275 +276 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:43,500 hired me. -276 +277 00:11:43,500 --> 00:11:46,000 Dan: [Inaudible]. Not really. -277 +278 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:46,300 Bekah: Yeah. -278 +279 00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:50,300 Dan: Not really, but ... seriously [laughs]. No, just -279 +280 00:11:50,300 --> 00:11:50,500 kidding [all laugh]. -280 +281 00:11:53,682 --> 00:11:56,321 -Bekah: So, I did not -- I didn't +Bekah: So, I did not-- I didn't take any coding tests or -281 +282 00:11:56,321 --> 00:11:58,960 have to -282 +283 00:11:58,961 --> 00:12:03,201 do any s-strange problems that make no difference in the world. -283 +284 00:12:03,591 --> 00:12:08,542 -And so, we worked together until +And so we worked together until the pandemic hit and then -284 +285 00:12:09,231 --> 00:12:10,300 everything shut down. So- -285 +286 00:12:10,300 --> 00:12:10,500 Dan: Yeah. -286 +287 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:11,500 -Bekah: -so, Dan -- +Bekah: -so, Dan-- -287 +288 00:12:11,700 --> 00:12:12,300 -Dan: And I -- +Dan: And I-- -288 +289 00:12:12,300 --> 00:12:13,000 Bekah: I joked [laughs] -- -289 +290 00:12:13,251 --> 00:12:16,131 Dan: As soon as I had work coming back in, you had -290 +291 00:12:16,131 --> 00:12:17,500 work coming back in too. -291 +292 00:12:17,500 --> 00:12:17,700 Bekah: Yeah. -292 +293 00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:19,500 -Dan: Cuz you never ... say -- +Dan: Cuz you never ... say-- -293 +294 00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:20,700 Bekah: He- he rehired me [laughs]. -294 +295 00:12:20,700 --> 00:12:26,211 Dan: Oh, okay, thank you. Thank you [all laugh]. Well, yeah. It -295 +296 00:12:26,211 --> 00:12:27,700 was ru- it was a rough summer. It was a weird summer. -296 +297 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,000 Bekah: That was really rough. And that's how Virtual Coffee -297 +298 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,991 started too. Because I was getting assigned with -298 +299 00:12:32,991 --> 00:12:37,491 interviews with kids at home and trying to figure out, like, what -299 +300 00:12:37,491 --> 00:12:42,700 life was like [chuckles]. And then, I put out a tweet, "Does -300 +301 00:12:42,700 --> 00:12:43,371 anybody wanna -301 +302 00:12:43,371 --> 00:12:46,000 meet up for Virtual Coffee?" And we just kept going with it. And- -302 +303 00:12:46,341 --> 00:12:50,000 and somewhere along the line, I -pulled Dan in too [chuckles]. +pulled Dan in, too [chuckles]. -303 +304 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:50,300 Dan: Yeah. -304 +305 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,000 Bekah: Cuz he owed me for firing me [laughs]. -305 +306 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:59,397 Dan: Oh, gosh [chuckles]. Alright. Alright. -306 +307 00:12:59,397 --> 00:13:05,096 So, here's the one thing. I'm- I'm so used to, like, talking to -307 +308 00:13:05,096 --> 00:13:07,197 you on Zoom. We're sitting right -next to each other, but we have +next to each other but we have -308 -00:13:07,197 --> 00:13:11,547 +309 +00:13:07,197 --> 00:13:09,372 the, like, Zoom monitor on the -screen. And so, I have been like +screen. And so, I have been, -309 +310 +00:13:09,372 --> 00:13:11,547 +like, + +311 00:13:11,547 --> 00:13:13,300 -looking at -- I keep looking at -you on the screen instead of- +looking at-- I keep looking at +you on the screen instead of-- -310 +312 00:13:13,300 --> 00:13:14,700 instead of, like, you next to me. -311 +313 00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:15,000 Bekah: Yeah. -312 +314 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:15,626 Dan: I don't even understand. -313 +315 00:13:15,626 --> 00:13:17,000 Bekah: Yeah. I'm not really sure- -314 +316 00:13:16,500 --> 00:13:17,700 -Dan: It's more the -- I don't +Dan: It's more the-- I don't understand it. -315 +317 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,700 Bekah: -how's the deal. Am I suppose to look at you when I -316 +318 00:13:18,700 --> 00:13:19,346 talk to you? -317 +319 00:13:19,346 --> 00:13:20,576 Dan: No. Right. Exactly. Yeah, right. Do I look to camera? Do -318 +320 00:13:20,576 --> 00:13:21,806 -you -- yeah. No, +you-- yeah. No, -319 +321 00:13:21,807 --> 00:13:25,677 it's weird. Good weird, but it's- it's weird, you know? -320 +322 00:13:25,677 --> 00:13:26,000 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -321 +323 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:26,700 Dan: [Inaudible]. Yeah. -322 +324 00:13:27,567 --> 00:13:31,091 Bekah: Yeah. Okay. Let's see. Let me look at this chat. -323 +325 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,700 [Laughs] Yes, Nick. Exactly. "Dan responded, 'I'm looking for -324 +326 00:13:36,700 --> 00:13:37,500 someone to fire eventually.'" -325 +327 00:13:37,797 --> 00:13:38,700 Dan: It was really just the power of truth. -326 +328 00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:39,700 Bekah: I was like, "Yeah. I am totally- -327 +329 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,700 -Dan: Man. That's- that's -- all -of work -- all of our work are- +Dan: Man. That's- that's-- all +of work-- all of our work are- -328 +330 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,000 Bekah: -here for being fired eventually [laughs]." -329 +331 00:13:41,700 --> 00:13:42,500 Dan: -out of life. Yeah. -330 +332 00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:46,300 Just a power to fire somebody, and then [inaudible]. -331 +333 00:13:45,626 --> 00:13:47,051 Bekah: No, I had no coding tests. We had a conversation. I -332 +334 00:13:47,051 --> 00:13:50,486 don't know if Dan remembers it, -but I remember -- +but I remember-- -333 +335 00:13:50,486 --> 00:13:55,500 Dan: I did. Yeah. I mean, I didn't know what I was doing -334 +336 00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:58,000 -either. It was -- I mean, this -is the first time I ever -- and +either. It was-- I mean, this is +the first time I ever-- and -335 +337 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,846 to be clear, like, you weren't -336 +338 00:13:59,846 --> 00:14:03,506 -an employee, so, you know? I -- +an employee, so-- you know? I-- my whole thing was contractor, -337 +339 00:14:03,506 --> 00:14:06,386 you know? Cuz I'm a contractor -too. But, yeah. I'd never done +too. But-- yeah. I'd never done -338 +340 00:14:06,386 --> 00:14:08,576 -that before. And like, I really +that before. And, like, I really jumped into, like, very ADHD -339 +341 00:14:08,576 --> 00:14:15,500 style, like, no real plan, no real, you know, guidelines for -340 +342 00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:18,500 -myself or for anybody else or +myself, or for anybody else, or anything like that. And it -341 +343 00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:20,125 worked out very well. -342 +344 00:14:20,125 --> 00:14:22,000 Bekah: It did! It worked out really well. -343 +345 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:27,267 -Dan: But ... yeah, I dunno. It -was- it was- it was fun. +Dan: But ... yeah-- I dunno. It +was-- it was-- it was fun. -344 +346 00:14:28,317 --> 00:14:31,772 -I'm -- I've been missing -- you +I'm-- I've been missing-- you know, Bekah, you gotta ... I -345 +347 00:14:31,772 --> 00:14:32,000 dunno. -346 +348 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:32,700 Bekah: I fired Dan. -347 +349 00:14:32,700 --> 00:14:33,300 Dan: I was gonna say- -348 +350 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,000 Bekah: And I got a new job [laughs]. -349 +351 00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:34,300 Dan: -you got a job. Yeah. -350 +352 00:14:35,522 --> 00:14:40,000 Yeah. So, you know, with, like, insurance- -351 +353 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:40,300 Bekah: Yeah. -352 +354 00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:42,500 Dan: -I've heard is a good thing to have. -353 +355 00:14:42,500 --> 00:14:44,322 Bekah: Insurance is nice. It's useful. -354 +356 00:14:44,322 --> 00:14:44,700 -Dan: So, you know -- +Dan: So, you know-- -355 +357 00:14:46,111 --> 00:14:50,000 Bekah: Didn't have that for a while [all chuckle]. So, yeah. -356 +358 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,692 So, I've been working a new -357 +359 00:14:51,692 --> 00:14:55,892 -full-time job, and Dan has been --- +full-time job and Dan has been-- -358 +360 00:14:57,361 --> 00:15:01,412 Dan: Yes. Ayu, thank you. If I didn't fire you, there'll be no -359 +361 00:15:01,412 --> 00:15:04,500 Virtual Coffee. I didn't fire you. God! I got tricked! -360 +362 00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:05,500 Bekah: [Laughs] He did it. Somebody- -361 +363 00:15:05,500 --> 00:15:06,000 Dan: Ooh, no. -362 +364 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:06,700 Bekah: -please grab that. -363 +365 00:15:06,700 --> 00:15:08,000 Dan: No. We're shutting this whole thing now. -364 +366 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,000 Bekah: Grab that from this video- -365 +367 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,000 Dan: We're shutting it down. -366 +368 00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:13,000 Bekah: -so I can play it over and over [laughs]. -367 +369 00:15:14,412 --> 00:15:18,192 Dan: I blamed Melts, honestly, -for that- for that one. We went +for that-- for that one. We went -368 +370 00:15:18,192 --> 00:15:21,700 to Melt in here, in Lakewood. -And there, it's -- I -- we +And there, it's-- I-- we -369 +371 00:15:21,700 --> 00:15:22,870 -walked past -- the first +walked past-- the first -370 +372 00:15:22,871 --> 00:15:25,841 place I wanted to go, found out -close for lunch on the weekdays, +close for lunch on the weekdays -371 +373 00:15:26,022 --> 00:15:29,142 which I didn't know. But as we were walking past Melt, I was -372 +374 00:15:29,142 --> 00:15:31,751 -like, this place makes you wanna -go take a nap after, like, +like, "This place makes you +wanna go take a nap after, like, -373 +375 00:15:31,782 --> 00:15:32,000 -after. +after." -374 +376 00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:33,000 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -375 +377 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,000 Dan: And it's- it's true. -376 +378 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,000 Bekah: Can confirm. -377 +379 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,642 Dan: Yeah. I mean, the two beers probably- probably not bad -378 +380 00:15:37,991 --> 00:15:42,500 -either. But, I blame -- yeah. I -blame- I blame that on that- on +either. But, I blame-- yeah. I +blame-- I blame that on that- on -379 +381 00:15:42,500 --> 00:15:46,000 that mental lapse. But I want to stand firm that I did not fire -380 +382 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:46,451 anybody. -381 +383 00:15:47,201 --> 00:15:49,991 Bekah: I mean, what is your definition of fire, okay? He was -382 +384 00:15:49,991 --> 00:15:54,131 like, "I'm no longer going to employ you or give you work or -383 +385 00:15:54,131 --> 00:15:58,000 money." So, anybody out there, please let me know [laughs]. -384 +386 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,000 Dan: Whatever. -385 +387 00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:06,500 Bekah: So now, he's roped into Virtual Coffee- -386 +388 00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:07,000 Dan: Oh, god. -387 +389 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:07,961 Bekah: -forever [laughs]. -388 +390 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:16,300 Dan: Oh, man. Anyway, let's go back to Ayu was saying that I -389 +391 00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:18,861 -was right. And -- +was right. And-- -390 +392 00:16:18,861 --> 00:16:20,500 Bekah: I don't think that's what -Ayu said, okay [chuckles]? +Ayu said, okay? [Chuckles] -391 +393 00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:22,300 Dan: Yeah, yeah. Well, that- that everything that I did was -392 +394 00:16:22,300 --> 00:16:22,700 good. -393 +395 00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:25,000 Bekah: She 100% did not say that. -394 +396 00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:26,451 -Dan: Yeah, no. I'm pretty sure -that's what she said. And -- +Dan: Yeah-- no. I'm pretty sure +that's what she said. And-- -395 +397 00:16:26,451 --> 00:16:26,700 Bekah: She did not! -396 +398 00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:30,000 Dan: No, I tried to scroll. We -can't- we can't scroll back. +can't-- we can't scroll back. -397 +399 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,000 -That's -- we can't [chuckles] -- +That's-- we can't [chuckles]-- -398 +400 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,341 Bekah: She's like, "Dan, it sucks that you fired Bekah and -399 +401 00:16:31,341 --> 00:16:33,500 that was pretty awful. But at least we got Virtual Coffee out -400 +402 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:34,000 of it [laughs]." -401 +403 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,500 Dan: We can't scroll back and see what she says. [Inaudible]. -402 +404 00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:40,000 Bekah: Nick tells, "Dan- Dan, you can fire me any day [all -403 +405 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,456 laugh]." I don't even know what that means [laughs]. -404 +406 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:45,700 Dan: Ooh, Nick. -405 +407 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,300 Bekah: Sometimes, I, like, very frequently will spit out water -406 +408 00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:53,000 when I drink it. So I need to try very hard to not drink and -407 +409 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,000 laugh at the same time. -408 +410 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:59,966 Dan: Hmm, wait. Who's ... yeah. Somebody's episode. That was a -409 +411 00:16:59,966 --> 00:17:00,500 really good one of that. -410 +412 00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:02,366 Bekah: Oh, oh, it's Helen! -411 +413 00:17:02,366 --> 00:17:02,700 -Dan: Oh yeah, Helen. +Dan: Oh, yeah, Helen. -412 +414 00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:03,000 Bekah: Yeah. -413 +415 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,766 Dan: Yeah. Yeah, I watched you do it. I watched you swallow or, -414 +416 00:17:04,767 --> 00:17:07,287 like, you know, start to drink water. And then Helen said -415 +417 00:17:07,287 --> 00:17:09,500 -something hilarious, and, yeah. +something hilarious, and-- yeah. -416 +418 00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:10,500 Bekah: I didn't mute myself. -417 +419 00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:11,300 Dan: I was like, "Oh, please." -418 +420 00:17:10,700 --> 00:17:13,000 -Bekah: I was like choking for +Bekah: I was, like, choking for five minutes [laughs]. -419 +421 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,000 -Dan: We -- yeah, Bekah and I -both have a- a problem with -- +Dan: We-- yeah, Bekah and I both +have a- a problem with-- -420 +422 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,517 -sometimes we, you know, you -- I +sometimes we, you know, you-- I don't know if you could get this -421 +423 00:17:20,517 --> 00:17:23,876 -in Zoom, where you ... you -- +in Zoom, where you ... you-- you're not, like, making eye -422 +424 00:17:23,876 --> 00:17:26,727 contact with a real person, you -know? But- but like, you almost +know? But- but, like, you almost -423 +425 00:17:26,727 --> 00:17:26,728 can, like- -424 +426 00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:26,700 Bekah: Yeah. -425 +427 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,500 Dan: -in Zoom, sometimes, you know? Where, like, you know, -426 +428 00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:29,307 you're looking at -427 +429 00:17:29,307 --> 00:17:31,047 that person, you know they're looking at you, you know? -428 +430 00:17:31,616 --> 00:17:34,000 -And, yeah. We've had some- we've -had some meltdowns in the- in +And-- yeah. We've had some-- +we've had some meltdowns in -429 +431 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,000 -the past [all laugh]. +the-- in the past [all laugh]. -430 +432 00:17:36,300 --> 00:17:38,500 We try to keep it, you know, it's all on the podcast. But -431 -00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:41,666 -there's been some- there's been -some- there's been some moments. +433 +00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:40,083 +there's been some-- there's been +some-- there's been some -432 +434 +00:17:40,083 --> 00:17:41,666 +moments. + +435 00:17:42,477 --> 00:17:44,700 Bekah: Yeah. Yeah. There are many moments on the podcast. -433 +436 00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:47,700 We've progressed so much. When we first started the podcast, I -434 +437 00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:50,541 would laugh uncontrollably for the first five minutes and I -435 +438 00:17:50,541 --> 00:17:53,700 could never do the introduction. -I -- maybe there's -- I don't +I-- maybe there's-- I don't -436 +439 00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:55,000 know if there's any [inaudible] [laughs]. -437 +440 00:17:55,797 --> 00:17:56,700 Dan: No, we have it all on tape, for sure. We sure have it all -438 +441 00:17:56,700 --> 00:17:59,300 -recorded. I don't know if -- +recorded. I don't know if-- yeah. I don't know how much -439 +442 00:17:59,300 --> 00:18:04,000 -video we have of it, but, like, +video we have of it but, like, we have a lot of views of- of -440 +443 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:05,500 the, like, trying to do the intros and stuff. -441 +444 00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:06,700 Bekah: [Laughs] I just couldn't. -I just would -- just -- +I just would-- just-- -442 +445 00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:09,000 Dan: It's so funny. Cuz you're so good at it. Like, -443 +446 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,500 you're so good at, like, this -stuff most of the time. And like +stuff most of the time. And, -444 +447 00:18:12,500 --> 00:18:14,700 --- it's the recorded nature of -it. It's like the reading the +like-- it's the recorded nature +of it. It's like the reading the -445 +448 00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:15,057 script part- -446 +449 00:18:15,057 --> 00:18:15,500 Bekah: It was like- -447 +450 00:18:15,300 --> 00:18:16,000 -Dan: I felt that- I felt that -- +Dan: I felt that-- I felt that-- -448 +451 00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:16,700 Bekah: -I was so nervous. -449 +452 00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:18,000 Dan: Yeah. I feel like that was [inaudible]. -450 +453 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:18,700 Bekah: Like, it [laughs]- it was, like, -451 -00:18:18,866 --> 00:18:22,076 +454 +00:18:18,866 --> 00:18:20,471 nervousness decided to turn -itself into laughters. And like, +itself into laughters. And, -452 +455 +00:18:20,471 --> 00:18:22,076 +like, + +456 00:18:22,076 --> 00:18:25,676 I could not stop. Which I guess is, like, better than crying or -453 +457 00:18:25,676 --> 00:18:29,067 -sweating, which I have also gone +sweating which I have also gone through those phases as well. -454 +458 00:18:29,217 --> 00:18:32,547 Dan: Yeah, sweat is definitely one of my main skills. -455 +459 00:18:34,317 --> 00:18:36,000 Bekah: Just checking out the chat. -456 +460 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:36,300 Dan: Yeah. -457 +461 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,231 Bekah: Promote it to customer [all laugh]. -458 +462 00:18:41,741 --> 00:18:47,700 Dan: Yes. Congratulations, -[inaudible]. Some -- I don't +[inaudible]. Some-- I don't -459 +463 00:18:47,700 --> 00:18:48,392 know. Pressure valves? -460 +464 00:18:48,392 --> 00:18:52,300 Bekah: [Laughs] Yeah, Suze. He probably would fire me for all -461 +465 00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:58,000 of this. It's okay. [Laughs] Oh, am I sure I'm an introvert? I -462 +466 00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:58,922 dunno. I feel -463 -00:18:58,922 --> 00:19:03,541 -like maybe I'm an amvivert -- -ambivert? I am, especially, like +467 +00:18:58,922 --> 00:19:01,231 +like maybe I'm an amvivert-- +ambivert? I am, especially, -464 +468 +00:19:01,231 --> 00:19:03,540 +like, + +469 00:19:03,541 --> 00:19:07,862 intensely nervous, and shy, and exhausted when I'm around people -465 +470 00:19:07,862 --> 00:19:10,700 -that I don't know. But like, +that I don't know. But, like, when I'm around people that I -466 +471 00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:11,612 know or -467 +472 00:19:11,612 --> 00:19:15,700 -people that I'm friends with, +people that I'm friends with then I can often, like, find -468 +473 00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:18,241 that energy I think that extroverts have. -469 +474 00:19:18,241 --> 00:19:24,692 -Dan: For- for me, it's -- for -me, it's sort of knowing exactly +Dan: For- for me, it's-- for me, +it's sort of knowing exactly -470 +475 00:19:24,692 --> 00:19:26,700 what, like, I was supposed to do- -471 +476 00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:27,000 Bekah: Yeah. -472 +477 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,500 Dan: -in a situation. That's what I'm comfortable, -473 +478 00:19:29,500 --> 00:19:32,922 -right? And so, like, the -- this +right? And so, like, the-- this is just you and me -474 +479 00:19:32,922 --> 00:19:35,261 -chatting, you know? And like, +chatting, you know? And, like, we've practiced this, obviously. -475 +480 00:19:35,261 --> 00:19:36,192 -So it's like, you know, talking, -like -- +So it's, like, you know, +talking, like-- -476 +481 00:19:36,192 --> 00:19:38,500 Bekah: We didn't practice this. -But like, we've been [laughs] -- +But, like, we've been [laughs]-- -477 +482 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,916 -Dan: Well, I -- no. Can't you -tell? We did, like- we did, like +Dan: Well, I-- no. Can't you +tell? We did, like-- we did, -478 +483 00:19:40,916 --> 00:19:43,061 -[laughs], this is -- yeah, +like [laughs], this is-- yeah, -479 +484 00:19:43,092 --> 00:19:48,000 very polished, you know, thing. -No. But what I mean is like, I +No. But what I mean is, like, I -480 +485 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,210 know what socially is expected of me in this situation. -481 +486 00:19:52,241 --> 00:19:56,471 You know what I mean? And so, if -I'm in coffee, like, one of our +I'm in Coffee, like, one of our -482 +487 00:19:56,471 --> 00:20:00,402 -coffee chats, and in a room with +Coffee chats, and in a room with a whole bunch of people I don't -483 +488 00:20:00,402 --> 00:20:02,832 know, I'm not, like, I don't -have a problem. Like, I don't- I +have a problem. Like, I don't-- -484 +489 00:20:02,832 --> 00:20:08,300 -don't get, like, awkward like +I don't get, like, awkward like that. But- but when I go to, -485 +490 00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:09,490 like, go to a -486 +491 00:20:09,491 --> 00:20:12,162 conference, right? And then, -there's like a social hour or +there's, like, a social hour, or -487 +492 00:20:12,162 --> 00:20:15,162 -lunch or whatever, and I don't +lunch, or whatever, and I don't know people, and I don't know -488 +493 00:20:15,162 --> 00:20:18,192 exactly what I'm supposed to do or, like, my role in, you know, -489 +494 00:20:18,192 --> 00:20:18,500 that's when I get, like- -490 +495 00:20:18,500 --> 00:20:18,700 Bekah: Yeah. -491 +496 00:20:18,700 --> 00:20:20,000 Dan: -that's when I get, like, super- -492 +497 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:20,200 Bekah: Yep. -493 +498 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:20,832 Dan: -and I just go and -494 +499 00:20:20,832 --> 00:20:22,662 sit down by myself, and put my -headphones on or so- or -- I +headphones on or so- or-- I -495 +500 00:20:22,662 --> 00:20:24,820 -don't put my headphones on. But -like -- cuz I'm fine if somebody +don't put my headphones on. But, +like-- cuz I'm fine if somebody -496 +501 00:20:24,821 --> 00:20:25,856 comes [chuckles] and talks to me, like, that's cool. -497 +502 00:20:25,856 --> 00:20:26,000 Bekah: Yeah. -498 +503 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:26,891 Dan: Cuz that's like, -499 +504 00:20:27,672 --> 00:20:29,000 "Hey, this is what you're supposed to do now," you know? -500 -00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,000 -But like, walking up to somebody -and trying to, like ... that's- +505 +00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,000 +But, like, walking up to +somebody and trying to, like ... -501 +506 +00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,000 +that's- + +507 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,300 -that's what I -- like, I really +that's what I-- like, I really struggled with that. That- -502 +508 00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:35,500 Bekah: Yeah. -503 +509 00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:36,700 Dan: -that's the kind of stuff that I struggled with, -504 +510 00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:42,500 you know? Is those- those, like, situations ... where it's an -505 +511 00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:45,112 -unfamiliar territory or like ... -you know? I dunno. +unfamiliar territory or, like +... you know-- I dunno. -506 +512 00:20:45,612 --> 00:20:46,000 Bekah: Yeah. -507 +513 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,000 -Dan: Something like that. So -- +Dan: Something like that. So-- -508 +514 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,311 Bekah: My dad was just telling my- -509 +515 00:20:48,311 --> 00:20:48,551 Dan: Super [inaudible]. -510 +516 00:20:48,551 --> 00:20:51,500 Bekah: -oldest — my 12-year-old. He was talking about how great -511 +517 00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:54,500 it is to talk to, like, random -people, and to go up and talking +people and to go up, and talking -512 +518 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:56,142 -to them, like, "Dad, that is- +to them, like, "Dad, that is-- that is -513 +519 00:20:56,142 --> 00:20:58,511 a terrible thing." My dad loves it. Like, he will go up to any -514 +520 00:20:58,511 --> 00:21:01,541 person, and he will probably try and say what their na- he'll -515 +521 00:21:01,541 --> 00:21:04,031 -ask them their name and hope +ask them their name, and hope continually try and repeat that -516 +522 00:21:04,061 --> 00:21:06,551 -throughout the conversation, but +throughout the conversation but then forget their name and use a -517 +523 00:21:06,551 --> 00:21:08,000 different name that's wrong [laughs]. -518 +524 00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:10,000 Dan: [Laughs] That's awesome. -519 +525 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,000 Bekah: He tries very hard to be personal. -520 +526 00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:12,000 Dan: Yeah. -521 +527 00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:15,700 Bekah: But there's, like, my worst nightmare talking to a- -522 +528 00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:16,000 Dan: Yeah. -523 +529 00:21:16,362 --> 00:21:18,000 Bekah: -stranger that I don't know about things. -524 +530 00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:19,000 Dan: Yeah. Yeah. -525 +531 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:19,500 Bekah: I can't. -526 +532 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,500 Dan: Yeah. No, my father-in-law -is huge -- he big on that. And +is huge-- he big on that. And -527 +533 00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:22,961 he was a bartender -528 +534 00:21:22,961 --> 00:21:25,571 -and stuff. And like, he just -doesn't naturally -- like, he +and stuff. And, like, he just +doesn't naturally-- like, he -529 -00:21:25,571 --> 00:21:29,382 -does it almost like impulsively, -you know? But like- like, in +535 +00:21:25,571 --> 00:21:27,476 +does it almost, like, +impulsively, you know? But, -530 +536 +00:21:27,476 --> 00:21:29,381 +like- like, in + +537 00:21:29,382 --> 00:21:32,172 an elevator or something, he'll -just like chat up, and they +just, like, chat up and they -531 +538 00:21:32,172 --> 00:21:34,000 probably don't wanna talk to -him. Well, I mean, like -- not +him. Well, I mean, like-- not -532 +539 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:35,741 -like -- he's not being creepy or +like-- he's not being creepy or anything. -533 +540 00:21:35,741 --> 00:21:36,000 Bekah: Right. -534 +541 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:36,942 Dan: And he's not, like, hitting on anybody or anything like -535 +542 00:21:36,942 --> 00:21:39,281 -that. But he would just like ... -talking to them. +that. But he would just, like +... talking to them. -536 +543 00:21:39,281 --> 00:21:40,000 Bekah: He would be friends with my- my dad [laughs]. -537 +544 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:40,700 Dan: [Laughs] Right, right. Yeah. -538 +545 00:21:40,700 --> 00:21:42,791 Bekah: They would talk to each other in the elevator. -539 +546 00:21:42,791 --> 00:21:43,700 Dan: [Inaudible]. He's, like, great guy. You know what I mean? -540 +547 00:21:43,700 --> 00:21:48,000 -And like, but that's just how he -is, you know? And ... yeah. +And, like-- but that's just how +he is, you know? And ... yeah. -541 +548 00:21:49,300 --> 00:21:53,000 -Somebody said something about -- +Somebody said something about-- Joe said some- "What do I do -542 +549 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,300 with my hands?" That's a big thing with me too. And honestly, -543 +550 00:21:55,300 --> 00:21:57,701 -that's like -- what I -- one of +that's, like-- what I-- one of the things I like -544 +551 00:21:57,701 --> 00:22:01,000 -about the -- this- this phase in +about the-- this- this phase in our, like, collective lives of -545 +552 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,700 the Zoom stuff is that most -times -- so right now, my +times-- so right now, my -546 +553 00:22:03,700 --> 00:22:05,651 -camera's like scooted back a +camera's, like, scooted back a little bit so that we can both -547 +554 00:22:05,651 --> 00:22:17,500 fit in. Most time, you can't see -548 +555 00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:17,501 my hands. And I've, honestly, like, during this thing, I had -549 +556 00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:14,300 been, like, seeing my hands in -the video, and been like, "Oh, +the video and been like, "Oh, -550 +557 00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:16,811 god. Get these out of here," you -know? Cuz I'm just like- like, I +know? Cuz I'm just, like- like-- -551 +558 00:22:16,811 --> 00:22:17,936 -don't know. What do I do with my -hands? Big problem. Yeah. What +I don't know. What do I do with +my hands? Big problem. Yeah. -552 +559 00:22:19,061 --> 00:22:23,300 -do I do with my whole body? +What do I do with my whole body? Like, standing in a group of -553 +560 00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:26,300 -people. How do I stand? You +people. How do I stand, you know? Like [chuckles], -554 +561 00:22:26,300 --> 00:22:27,000 -seriously, like, I -- I've -- +seriously, like, I-- I've-- -555 +562 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:27,300 Bekah: Yeah. -556 +563 00:22:27,300 --> 00:22:28,700 Dan: -I've struggled with that, you know? -557 +564 00:22:28,700 --> 00:22:31,076 -Like, I don't -- do I just put -my hands in my pockets +Like, I don't-- do I just put my +hands in my pockets -558 +565 00:22:31,136 --> 00:22:31,977 -or, you know? I dunno. +or-- you know? I dunno. -559 +566 00:22:31,977 --> 00:22:34,000 Bekah: That's why I like pockets. -560 +567 00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:34,000 Dan: Yeah, yeah. -561 +568 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:34,616 Bekah: And they just don't make enough pockets for women. -562 +569 00:22:34,616 --> 00:22:35,000 Dan: Yeah. Yeah. -563 +570 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,000 -Bekah: It's like, even earlier- +Bekah: It's, like, even earlier- -564 +571 00:22:36,300 --> 00:22:37,000 -Dan: Pockets is -- are great. +Dan: Pockets is-- are great. -565 +572 00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:37,500 -Bekah: -I -- we're -- Dan and I -were like sitting +Bekah: -I-- we're-- Dan and I +were, like, sitting -566 +573 00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:41,247 -at this conference table talking --- like, I move around a lot, +at this conference table, +talking-- like, I move around a -567 +574 00:22:41,247 --> 00:22:43,000 -and I've, like, recently, become -more aware- +lot and I've, like, recently, +become more aware- -568 +575 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:43,300 Dan: Mm-hmm. -569 +576 00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:45,416 Bekah: -of how much I move by -570 +577 00:22:45,416 --> 00:22:48,297 seeing other people on camera. -And then I'm like constant- I +And then I'm, like, constant- I -571 +578 00:22:48,297 --> 00:22:50,247 think someone once gave me like feedback, "Don't move your hands -572 +579 00:22:50,247 --> 00:22:53,000 so much. It's distracting." Like, whatever. Like, I'm gonna -573 +580 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,300 move my hands as much as I want -it. Like, because I can. I said, +it. Like, because I can. I said -574 +581 00:22:56,300 --> 00:22:59,700 -I -- we've got spinny -- Dan's -got spinny chair. So I got to do +I-- we've got spinny-- Dan's got +spinny chair. So I got to do -575 +582 00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:04,300 a lot of spinning [chuckles]. -This is- this is what I do. I +This is-- this is what I do. I -576 +583 00:23:04,300 --> 00:23:05,700 move all the time. But, like- -577 +584 00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:06,700 Dan: Yeah. You do it a lot too. -578 +585 00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:07,907 Bekah: -when I'm in front of the camera in my office, -579 +586 00:23:07,907 --> 00:23:12,300 -like, I very much try -- I- I +like, I very much try-- I- I have to try very hard to sit -580 +587 00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:13,000 still [chuckles]- -581 +588 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:13,300 Dan: Yeah. -582 +589 00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:16,500 Bekah: -and not move my hands everywhere because that is not -583 +590 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:17,757 my natural state of being. -584 +591 00:23:17,757 --> 00:23:19,500 Dan: It's hard. [Bekah chuckles] It's hard. -585 +592 00:23:23,136 --> 00:23:26,497 -Waving your hair -- ha-hands in -the air. Yes. Joe said -- +Waving your hair-- ha-hands in +the air. Yes. Joe said-- -586 +593 00:23:26,497 --> 00:23:28,500 Bekah: We did the wave one time at Virtual Coffee- -587 +594 00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:29,000 Dan: Ooh, right. -588 +595 00:23:28,550 --> 00:23:31,700 Bekah: -in my breakout room. We, like, alf- we- we alphabetized -589 +596 00:23:31,700 --> 00:23:36,000 -everybody, and then everybody +everybody and then everybody went. It was very exciting. -590 +597 00:23:39,997 --> 00:23:43,000 -Dan: Do we miss -- oh, no. Oh, +Dan: Do we miss-- oh, no. Oh, Marie had to go. -591 +598 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,300 Bekah: Oh, Marie. -592 +599 00:23:44,300 --> 00:23:49,000 Dan: We will see you, Marie. Yeah. I dunno. -593 +600 00:23:49,017 --> 00:23:53,000 -Bekah: We should -- is- is Kirk +Bekah: We should-- is- is Kirk around? Can we bring Kirk -594 +601 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:53,307 on? -595 +602 00:23:54,326 --> 00:24:00,000 Dan: I don't know. It is Kirk Day. -596 +603 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,606 Bekah: Which is why we started. -597 +604 00:24:02,606 --> 00:24:06,000 Dan: He responded to [inaudible] well, that was 20 minutes ago, -598 +605 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,000 I guess. Are you DM him? Or should I DM him? -599 +606 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:09,700 Bekah: I DMed him. -600 +607 00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:12,000 Dan: Okay. We'll see if we can get Kirk on here. -601 +608 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,395 Bekah: Our celebrity. Our resident celebrity. -602 +609 00:24:15,416 --> 00:24:20,027 Dan: It'll be funny. Because once we get another person on -603 +610 00:24:20,027 --> 00:24:24,000 this call, you and me, we'll be in one box. And Kirk will be in -604 +611 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,000 another one [laughs]. -605 +612 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:25,300 Bekah: Yeah. -606 +613 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,700 Dan: Oh, man. It's- it's crazy. It's crazy. -607 +614 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,342 Bekah: Kirk is at work. What's work? Can people do that? -608 +615 00:24:32,662 --> 00:24:37,192 Dan: Don't they know it's Kirk Day? I'm pretty sure they do. -609 +616 00:24:37,192 --> 00:24:39,000 -Because they is -- +Because they is-- -610 +617 00:24:38,342 --> 00:24:40,981 Bekah: Oh, I mean, maybe we can have any Kirk. Nick has -611 +618 00:24:40,981 --> 00:24:41,500 asked. That's a good question. -612 +619 00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:42,000 Dan: Ooh. -613 +620 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,000 Bekah: So, in our Slack right now, most of us have put our -614 +621 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,082 profile down, flipped it, and -reversed it. But with Kirk's -- +reversed it. But with Kirk's-- -615 +622 00:24:50,082 --> 00:24:52,000 Dan: Huh. I see him. Kiirk. -616 +623 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,000 Bekah: Kiirk. -617 +624 00:24:52,500 --> 00:24:55,000 Dan: Alright, alright. Hang on there a second. I'll -618 +625 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,500 [inaudible]. Alright. We're gonna try to get Kirk in to -619 +626 00:24:59,500 --> 00:24:59,700 -join -- +join-- -620 +627 00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:01,700 Bekah: We're doing out best. If we disappoint you- -621 +628 00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:03,500 -Dan: I just have- I just have to -remember how, you know, work +Dan: I just have-- I just have +to remember how, you know, work -622 +629 00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:04,000 this [inaudible]. -623 +630 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,402 Bekah: -we're sorry. We're doing our best -624 +631 00:25:06,402 --> 00:25:08,000 to bring our celebrity on the stream. -625 +632 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,000 Dan: Him is celebrity. -626 +633 00:25:09,007 --> 00:25:11,612 -Bekah: At least take -- 10 fakes +Bekah: At least take-- 10 fakes in- in the -627 +634 00:25:11,622 --> 00:25:14,800 chat as well. I wanna shoutout to Abbey Perini because she -628 +635 00:25:14,801 --> 00:25:18,000 DMed me last night. She was like, "After midnight, put up -629 +636 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,700 this in your profile." So, Abbey has been an amazing observer of -630 +637 00:25:22,700 --> 00:25:26,000 -Kirk Day, and I could not have +Kirk Day and I could not have asked for anything better. -631 +638 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,300 Dan: Oh, breakout rooms. I don't think we need breakout rooms. -632 +639 00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:31,500 Bekah: We don't want breakout -[inaudible] [all chuckle] -- +[inaudible] [all chuckle]-- -633 +640 00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:32,700 where are we breaking out to? -634 +641 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,000 Dan: I was trying to turn off the [inaudible]. -635 +642 00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:37,700 Bekah: Will the real slim Kirk please stand up? Yes. Oh, my -636 +643 00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:42,300 goodness. We definitely need to find more ways to put Kirk into -637 +644 00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:42,686 music. -638 +645 00:25:43,106 --> 00:25:46,586 Dan: All right. Kirk said, he can join in three minutes. So- -639 +646 00:25:46,586 --> 00:25:46,800 Bekah: Should we- -640 +647 00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:47,700 -Dan: -we have -- we -- +Dan: -we have-- we-- [unintelligible]. -641 +648 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,500 Bekah: -tell jokes? Tell joke. Joke. -642 +649 00:25:48,500 --> 00:25:50,700 -Dan: I don't -- I'm not -- we -just talk about for -- +Dan: I don't-- I'm not-- we just +talk about for-- -643 +650 00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:52,586 before. I don't know jokes. I can't remember them. -644 +651 00:25:52,586 --> 00:25:56,457 Bekah: All right. I'll tell my joke. Have you all [laughs] -645 +652 00:25:56,457 --> 00:25:57,146 [inaudible] about pizza? -646 +653 00:25:59,916 --> 00:26:00,936 Dan: Nope. I haven't heard that one. -647 +654 00:26:03,817 --> 00:26:05,616 Bekah: [Laughs] Nevermind. It's too cheesy for pizza. -648 +655 00:26:09,717 --> 00:26:10,106 Dan: Oh, man. -649 +656 00:26:11,247 --> 00:26:14,517 Bekah: When we do the podcast, Dan always wants me to adjust my -650 +657 00:26:14,517 --> 00:26:18,000 microphone. And so then, I try -and tell him jokes, which he +and tell him jokes which he -651 +658 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:18,537 ignores -652 +659 00:26:18,537 --> 00:26:22,676 all of the time. And then some of our guests are nice enough to -653 +660 00:26:22,676 --> 00:26:25,700 laugh. So, if you come on the podcast, please laugh at my -654 +661 00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:28,000 jokes and roll your eyes at Dan. -655 +662 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,000 Dan: Don't encourage her. -656 +663 00:26:29,500 --> 00:26:33,000 Bekah: Please encourage me [laughs]. In my keynote- -657 +664 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:33,300 -Dan: You know -- +Dan: You know-- -658 +665 00:26:33,116 --> 00:26:36,000 Bekah: -talk that I'm giving in July, I'm just telling jokes for -659 +666 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,606 15 minutes straight because I can do whatever I want. -660 +667 00:26:38,606 --> 00:26:41,817 -Dan: That'll -- that's true. -You're the keynote speaker. So, +Dan: That'll-- that's true. +You're the keynote speaker. So -661 +668 00:26:41,817 --> 00:26:44,000 that'll be your first and only time being a keynote speaker -662 +669 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:44,500 [all laugh]. -663 +670 00:26:44,500 --> 00:26:47,000 Bekah: But is it worth it? -664 +671 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,076 Dan: Oh, Joe said I should fire -you again -- wait! I did +you again-- wait! I did -665 +672 00:26:49,076 --> 00:26:51,300 not fire you [Bekah laughs]. I reject the promise. I reject it! -666 +673 00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:55,257 God, they keep trying to trick me! -667 +674 00:26:55,257 --> 00:27:01,500 Bekah: Can't fire me anymore [laughs]. All right. But if -668 +675 00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:02,227 anybody else -669 +676 00:27:02,227 --> 00:27:05,500 has jokes, please put them in the chat and then I will deliver -670 +677 00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:05,700 them because I'm- -671 +678 00:27:05,700 --> 00:27:06,500 Dan: You know what? -672 +679 00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:07,300 Bekah: -very good at it. -673 +680 00:27:07,567 --> 00:27:10,000 Dan: She needs to deliver them because you are the worst joke -674 +681 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:11,166 receiver in -675 +682 00:27:11,166 --> 00:27:13,146 the world. You know what she -does? Yeah. You know you do, +does? Yeah. You know you do -676 +683 00:27:13,146 --> 00:27:15,700 -when you -- when I asked you jo- -when I've like, I have -- +when you-- when I asked you jo- +when I've, like, I have-- -677 +684 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:19,000 there's been times where I've, like, pulled out some jokes. -678 +685 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,000 Bekah: Oh, yeah? -679 +686 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,500 Dan: Yeah. Because I know that you appreciate them- -680 +687 00:27:21,500 --> 00:27:21,700 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -681 +688 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,311 -Dan: -but she try -- she guesses -the answers. She like -- she +Dan: -but she try-- she guesses +the answers. She, like-- she -682 +689 00:27:25,311 --> 00:27:27,216 didn't say, "I don't know. What?" She, like, -683 +690 00:27:27,936 --> 00:27:31,000 tries to, like, it's a riddle. -[Laughs] You are, right? Like -- +[Laughs] You are, right? Like-- -684 +691 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,000 Bekah: Isn't that how everybody do it? -685 +692 00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:35,000 Dan: No. No. No- -686 +693 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:35,700 Bekah: So, something [??]- -687 +694 00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:36,300 Dan: -it's not. -688 +695 00:27:36,300 --> 00:27:38,700 Bekah: -"Oh no, Dan. I don't know. Can you tell me the -689 +696 00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:40,000 answer [laughs]?" -690 +697 00:27:40,626 --> 00:27:43,700 -Dan: No, that's not what -- what +Dan: No, that's not what-- what are you doing? You're fired -691 +698 00:27:43,700 --> 00:27:44,000 [laughs]. -692 +699 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,297 Bekah: [Laughs] Again? -693 +700 00:27:46,297 --> 00:27:51,000 Dan: Not again. For the first time I have fired you [Bekah -694 +701 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,000 laughs]. [Sighs] Man. -695 +702 00:27:53,557 --> 00:27:56,257 Bekah: See? Exactly. Thank you, Joe. Joe knows. It's not a joke. -696 +703 00:27:56,257 --> 00:27:57,366 It's a challenge. Every joke is the challenge. -697 +704 00:27:59,297 --> 00:28:02,477 -Dan: That's not a -- mm-mm. That +Dan: That's not a-- mm-mm. That is not a joke. -698 +705 00:28:02,656 --> 00:28:05,777 Bekah: Well, but a joke then is like a story that you tell with -699 +706 00:28:05,777 --> 00:28:08,700 a punchline at the end, in- in your sense of a joke is. -700 +707 00:28:07,500 --> 00:28:10,000 Dan: I mean, you're- you're, like, stand up here? You're -701 +708 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:11,000 -[all laugh] -- +[all laugh]-- -702 +709 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,000 Bekah: Yeah. Isn't that what everybody aspires to? -703 +710 00:28:14,500 --> 00:28:20,656 Dan: Oh, wait. Kirk here. Okay. Well, according to Kirk, one -704 +711 00:28:20,656 --> 00:28:23,300 minute left. So, yeah. We'll see. -705 +712 00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:24,500 Bekah: One minute. T-minus one minute. -706 +713 00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:27,700 Dan: Oh, Kirk was not consulted at all for any of this. That is -707 +714 00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:32,500 true. I try not to consult Kirk -at a time on things where -- +at a time on things where-- -708 +715 00:28:32,656 --> 00:28:33,136 Bekah: We'd- -709 +716 00:28:32,700 --> 00:28:33,700 -Dan: He- he- he -- +Dan: He- he- he-- -710 +717 00:28:33,500 --> 00:28:34,300 Bekah: -somebody be reasonable [laughs]. -711 +718 00:28:34,300 --> 00:28:39,500 Dan: Yeah [laughs]. Yeah, right, exactly. Or, you know, where he -712 +719 00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:40,365 might have time to -713 +720 00:28:40,366 --> 00:28:44,000 think about whether he wants to -engage with us. We try to- try +engage with us. We try to-- try -714 +721 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,000 to pull him in, you know, before he has a chance to, you know? -715 +722 00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:48,221 -Bekah: Yeah, no. We -- +Bekah: Yeah-- no. We-- -716 +723 00:28:48,221 --> 00:28:50,000 Dan: Avoid my ridiculousness. -717 +724 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,300 Bekah: Joe, yes. We do need a scoreboard. Maybe that will be -718 +725 00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:54,700 -next month monthly challenge -- +next month monthly challenge-- -719 +726 00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:55,300 Dan: Alright. So far it counts as one. -720 +727 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,872 Bekah: 97 and counting. -721 +728 00:29:01,061 --> 00:29:05,231 Dan: [Chuckles] Oh, god. How did I not see that coming? Honestly. -722 +729 00:29:05,741 --> 00:29:08,442 Bekah: I don't know. I didn't even think about it. And so we -723 +730 00:29:08,442 --> 00:29:10,000 started talking and you brought it up. -724 +731 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,000 Dan: I don't think it was me. -725 +732 00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:16,000 Bekah: Yes. A Slack channel- -726 +733 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:16,700 Dan: Yeah, definitely. -727 +734 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,352 Bekah: -or a Slack bot that posts every time that Dan fires -728 +735 00:29:20,352 --> 00:29:20,500 me. -729 +736 00:29:20,352 --> 00:29:24,001 Dan: Hmm. How about a Slack button that just announces that -730 +737 00:29:24,001 --> 00:29:24,571 Bekah is fired again? -731 +738 00:29:25,922 --> 00:29:26,200 Bekah: Everybody- -732 +739 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,000 -Dan: That- that- that I'm- that +Dan: That- that- that I'm-- that I'm- -733 +740 00:29:26,300 --> 00:29:30,500 Bekah: -just continuously fires me over and over [Dan laughs]. -734 +741 00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:32,653 It's okay. Just keep firing me. It's fine. -735 +742 00:29:33,700 --> 00:29:34,000 Dan: Hm. -736 +743 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,000 Bekah: Kirk just preparing to be -up here. Yeah, he probably -- +up here. Yeah, he probably-- -737 +744 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,300 sorry, Kirk, we're sorry that you have to prepare for us -738 +745 00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:41,500 [laughs]. -739 +746 00:29:41,500 --> 00:29:42,000 Kirk: Yeah. -740 +747 00:29:42,300 --> 00:29:44,500 Bekah: We were trying to send a drone that would just go scoop -741 +748 00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:45,000 up Kirk- -742 +749 00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:46,000 Dan: Oh, how we gonna do this? -743 +750 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,067 Bekah: -and bring him to Cleveland. -744 +751 00:29:47,817 --> 00:29:51,686 Dan: Well, maybe Zoom will cut out the echo. I was just -745 +752 00:29:51,686 --> 00:29:51,687 thinking- -746 +753 00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:51,700 Bekah: Oh. -747 +754 00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:56,000 Dan: -I would have headphones. -And then I was -- I don't know +And then I was-- I don't know -748 +755 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:01,700 how to do that, really. We're just gonna try it. And I'm gonna -749 +756 00:30:01,700 --> 00:30:05,300 count on you guys to tell us if there's a bad echo. Cuz I'm -750 +757 00:30:05,300 --> 00:30:07,000 just gonna play it over the speakers. And because Zoom is -751 +758 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,000 -actually -- usually pretty good +actually-- usually pretty good at that. Like- -752 +759 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,500 Bekah: One headphone in your ear and one headphone in my ear. -753 +760 00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:13,000 Dan: I mean, if that's all we -have to do, I -- you know, we +have to do, I-- you know, we -754 +761 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,300 -can do AirPods or something. But -like, that'll be annoying. I +can do AirPods or something. +But, like, that'll be annoying. -755 +762 00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:23,000 -have -- I'm trying to think if +I have-- I'm trying to think if there's any other ... solution. -756 +763 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,500 But literally, this is the first time I've ever sat next to -757 +764 00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:28,000 somebody- -758 +765 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,700 -Bekah: Okay. So, I -- here's -- +Bekah: Okay. So, I-- here's-- -759 +766 00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:31,047 -Dan: -and- and try to be on- be +Dan: -and- and try to be on-- be on, you know, camera. -760 +767 00:30:31,166 --> 00:30:35,000 Bekah: I mean, if I have my computer, I can- -761 +768 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:35,500 Dan: Yeah. -762 +769 00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:36,300 -Bekah: -put on my AirPods and -- +Bekah: -put on my AirPods and-- -763 +770 00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:38,727 Dan: I mean, like, you can go on the other fucking room and do -764 +771 00:30:38,727 --> 00:30:38,936 -that, like -- +that, like-- -765 +772 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,146 oh, sorry. I did not mean to -curse, but she made me have two +curse but she made me have two -766 +773 00:30:42,146 --> 00:30:47,366 beers. And she, you know, she -forced me to do it. And -- which +forced me to do it. And-- which -767 +774 00:30:47,366 --> 00:30:49,196 I've been meaning to talk to HR -about, and they said you're +about and they said you're -768 +775 00:30:49,196 --> 00:30:52,500 fired, so ... [all laugh]. I -would -- +would-- -769 +776 00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:53,500 Bekah: Fired again [laughs]. -770 +777 00:30:53,500 --> 00:30:55,500 Dan: The reason I swore was because, like, -771 +778 00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:58,700 you going out somewhere else sounds not fun is my point. -772 +779 00:30:58,700 --> 00:30:59,300 Bekah: I meant- -773 +780 00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:00,000 Dan: I would be sad about that. -774 +781 00:30:59,700 --> 00:31:03,300 Bekah: -just have my computer, and log on, and I would sit -775 +782 00:31:03,300 --> 00:31:04,000 here- -776 -00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:05,800 -Dan: Hm. I feel like you- I feel -like you ended up getting a -- +783 +00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:04,650 +Dan: Hm. I feel like you-- I +feel like you ended up getting -777 +784 +00:31:04,650 --> 00:31:05,800 +a-- + +785 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,477 Bekah: -but just so I could put the sound in my ear. -778 +786 00:31:06,477 --> 00:31:08,000 Dan: I feel like you'd get a delay, plus you'd hear me -779 +787 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:14,000 through there too. And through here too [laughs], you know? -780 +788 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,300 Bekah: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. -781 +789 00:31:15,300 --> 00:31:18,500 Dan: So, we're gonna try it with [inaudible]. -782 +790 00:31:19,257 --> 00:31:21,000 Bekah: Do they have, like, covers for your AirPods that -783 +791 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,796 you're sharing them for someone else? Like, you know how, like, -784 +792 00:31:22,796 --> 00:31:23,000 they- -785 +793 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,000 -Dan: Oh, yeah. We couldn't -- +Dan: Oh, yeah. We couldn't-- -786 +794 00:31:24,116 --> 00:31:25,000 -Bekah: -have like the tongue +Bekah: -have, like, the tongue depressor- -787 +795 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,500 Dan: My airp- yeah, yeah. -788 +796 00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:28,000 -Bekah: -and they cover it? Or -like the ear thing, they put a +Bekah: -and they cover it? Or, +like, the ear thing, they put a -789 +797 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,747 little thing? Do they have one of those for your AirPods? -790 +798 00:31:31,977 --> 00:31:35,500 -Dan: The -- oh, yeah. That's -- -as soon as I thought- thought of +Dan: The-- oh, yeah. That's-- as +soon as I thought- thought of -791 +799 00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:37,317 that, that's where, like, my -792 +800 00:31:37,317 --> 00:31:39,000 AirPods are, like, gross right now. Like, I wouldn't wanna -793 +801 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,000 share that with anybody. So that would be an embarrassing thing -794 +802 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:42,566 to do as well [Bekah laughs]. -795 +803 00:31:43,767 --> 00:31:50,156 -There has to be some sort of +There has to be some sort of, like ... I dunno. I feel -796 +804 00:31:50,156 --> 00:31:52,000 like back in the day, they used to have a lot of cool things of -797 +805 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,076 where you'd split the, you know? -I probably, honestly have -- +I probably, honestly have-- -798 +806 00:31:55,076 --> 00:31:56,700 Bekah: Did they have lots of cool things? -799 +807 00:31:56,700 --> 00:31:57,355 Dan: Yeah. Where they'd have -800 +808 00:31:57,356 --> 00:32:00,057 a little splitter. So you have -your iPod and the cord with the +your iPod, and the cord with the -801 +809 00:32:00,057 --> 00:32:02,000 two things, and then you could- could sit- -802 +810 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,000 Bekah: Oh, I didn't have an iPod. -803 +811 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,707 Dan: -in those cars. You could -sit next to your friend in the +sit next to your friend in the-- -804 +812 00:32:04,707 --> 00:32:06,700 --- or in the bus or the car and +or in the bus, or the car, and both just do the same thing. -805 +813 00:32:06,700 --> 00:32:06,911 Bekah: What? -806 +814 00:32:06,911 --> 00:32:08,000 Dan: Yeah. -807 +815 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:08,700 -Bekah: I said -- +Bekah: I said-- -808 +816 00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:11,000 Dan: But those were recorded, -you know? They were like -- +you know? They were, like-- -809 +817 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,000 Bekah: Old people? -810 +818 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,000 -Dan: No. Fo-for like cool kids +Dan: No. Fo-for, like, cool kids in high school that listened to -811 +819 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,700 cool music and had cool friends. -812 +820 00:32:17,700 --> 00:32:19,900 Bekah: I was not a cool kid with cool friends in high school -813 +821 00:32:19,900 --> 00:32:20,000 [laughs]. -814 +822 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,000 Dan: Alright. I didn't have it either, so ... it just seemed -815 +823 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:23,382 cool [all laugh]. -816 +824 00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:24,300 Kirk Shillingford: What? [Inaudible]. -817 +825 00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:28,300 Bekah: Can watch the other cool kids. Ooh, Kirk is talking. It's -818 +826 00:32:28,300 --> 00:32:29,000 said up there. -819 +827 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:29,500 Dan: Oh, oh. -820 +828 00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:30,000 Bekah: Where is he? -821 +829 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,000 Dan: Kirk, are you here? -822 +830 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,000 -Kirk: I mean, I can see you. +Kirk: I mean, I can see you. -823 +831 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,000 Dan: Hey! There you are [laughs]. -824 +832 00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:34,000 Bekah: Kirk! -825 +833 00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:37,500 -Kirk: I want you to know, like --- +Kirk: I want you to know, like-- -826 +834 00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:39,000 Bekah: [Laughs] I just shouted. -827 +835 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:39,700 Dan: It's Kirk! -828 +836 00:32:39,700 --> 00:32:41,600 Kirk: I, like, feel watching the stream while I was getting -829 +837 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,500 ready. -830 +838 00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:46,500 And then, there was a moment -where I'm like, "This is -- +where I'm like, "This is-- -831 +839 00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:50,000 there's a lot of going on here. -I don't know- I don't know where +I don't know-- I don't know -832 +840 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:55,500 -I fit in. I don't have any +where I fit in. I don't have any jokes. And I don't have, like, -833 +841 00:32:55,500 --> 00:32:59,000 any jokes [inaudible] rule -formats." So -- +formats." So-- -834 +842 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,000 -Bekah: But you're the best. So --- +Bekah: But you're the best. So-- -835 +843 00:33:01,500 --> 00:33:06,500 -Kirk: You know? Bekah, I- I feel +Kirk: You know, Bekah? I- I feel like, what do you think are -836 +844 00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:09,000 jokes and not what other [inaudible] [laughs]. -837 +845 00:33:09,500 --> 00:33:10,000 Bekah: [All laugh] Oh, no! -838 +846 00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:14,000 Kirk: I just feel like you've -taken, like, stand-up and +taken, like, stand-up, and -839 +847 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,500 competition, and you, like, flip -them together instead that is +them together instead. That is -840 +848 00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:23,500 all of jokes [all laugh]. [Inaudible]. There's more than -841 +849 00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:24,000 jokes. -842 +850 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,000 Dan: Oh, Kirk. I'm so glad you're here. -843 +851 00:33:27,500 --> 00:33:28,000 -Kirk: I just -- +Kirk: I just-- -844 +852 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,326 -Dan: I think that's -- that was +Dan: I think that's-- that was decades ago. I know it was -845 +853 00:33:30,326 --> 00:33:33,626 decades ago because it was high school. Thank you for putting -846 +854 00:33:33,626 --> 00:33:35,000 that out there. I appreciate that. -847 +855 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,000 Kirk: Decades? -848 +856 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,500 Dan: Oh, god. -849 +857 00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:39,000 Bekah: Let's start. -850 +858 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,000 Dan: All right. Everybody else has said there's no audio -851 +859 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,000 issues. -852 +860 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:42,500 Bekah: Yay! -853 +861 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:43,916 Dan: We are good. -854 +862 00:33:44,277 --> 00:33:47,000 Bekah: We did it. We got the celebrity of the year here. -855 +863 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,896 Welcome. It's been a great year. -856 +864 00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:51,000 Dan: The- the celebrity of multiverse [chuckles]. -857 +865 00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:51,700 Bekah: Yeah. -858 +866 00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:55,346 -Kirk: I did -- this entire day, +Kirk: I did-- this entire day, I've just been seeing threads -859 +867 00:33:55,346 --> 00:33:58,000 ongoing. I don't remember talking though. No. -860 +868 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,700 -Dan: [Laughs] Yeah. I was -- -I've been having the opposite +Dan: [Laughs] Yeah. I was-- I've +been having the opposite -861 +869 00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:02,576 problem where I r- I read as -862 +870 00:34:02,576 --> 00:34:05,467 reading through a thread and was like, "Oh, who wrote that? Oh, -863 +871 00:34:05,467 --> 00:34:06,000 that was me." Like, it's [all -laugh] -- +laugh]-- -864 +872 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,700 Bekah: Dan said, "I think we're at lunches [laughs]." -865 +873 00:34:08,700 --> 00:34:08,876 [Inaudible]. -866 +874 00:34:11,126 --> 00:34:15,000 -Kirk: It's -- this is ... again, +Kirk: It's-- this is ... again, I just wanna make the record -867 +875 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,500 clear that I was not consulted about any of this. I woke up, -868 +876 00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:23,186 I saw it, I just assumed Slack wasn't working. -869 +877 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:25,000 Dan: [Dan and Bekah laugh] Yeah, -it does that- it does that -- +it does that-- it does that-- -870 +878 00:34:24,746 --> 00:34:26,156 Bekah: Nick Taylor, like, -somebody would -- maybe read out +somebody would-- maybe read out -871 +879 00:34:26,156 --> 00:34:27,566 was like, -872 +880 00:34:28,266 --> 00:34:30,746 "I'm seeing pictures of Kirk." And Nick is like, "It happens -873 +881 00:34:30,746 --> 00:34:32,000 sometimes." And it does. Like, sometimes- -874 +882 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:32,300 Dan: It does happen. -875 +883 00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:33,700 Bekah: -Slack put other- -876 +884 00:34:32,700 --> 00:34:33,000 Kirk: Yeah. -877 +885 00:34:33,777 --> 00:34:34,737 Bekah: -people's pictures. -878 +886 00:34:35,500 --> 00:34:37,976 Dan: Not upside down usually though. -879 +887 00:34:37,976 --> 00:34:39,700 Bekah: No. And flipped it [inaudible] and reversed it. -880 +888 00:34:39,896 --> 00:34:42,567 Kirk: Okay. So I'm gonna be clear. I was very dense. It -881 +889 00:34:42,567 --> 00:34:45,700 took me way too long to figure out that's what that was. Again, -882 +890 00:34:45,700 --> 00:34:50,000 -I'm just -- I thought Slack was +I'm just-- I thought Slack was not working. And then I thought -883 +891 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:50,567 it was like, -884 +892 00:34:50,567 --> 00:34:54,597 "Okay. Let's add one way for Kirk to distinguish himself -885 +893 00:34:54,597 --> 00:34:57,597 from other people." But it wasn't even about me. Which I -886 +894 00:34:57,597 --> 00:34:58,000 -feel like it's the -- +feel like it's the-- -887 +895 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,000 Bekah: It's all about you. Every part of it is. -888 +896 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,000 Kirk: Kirk Day is about ... -everyone. It's a- it's a VC +everyone. It's a-- it's a VC -889 +897 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:05,847 event. I'm just- -890 +898 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:06,500 Bekah: It's about- -891 +899 00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:07,000 -Kirk: -just this small -- +Kirk: -just this small-- -892 +900 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,626 Bekah: -celebrating how much we love Kirk. -893 +901 00:35:09,626 --> 00:35:10,500 Dan: Yep. It's true. -894 +902 00:35:10,700 --> 00:35:11,000 Kirk: No. -895 +903 00:35:12,356 --> 00:35:14,876 Bekah: We're lucky that Missy Elliott responded to you. So we -896 +904 00:35:14,876 --> 00:35:18,507 -can remember every day -- it's +can remember every day-- it's like Valentine's day. Because -897 +905 00:35:18,507 --> 00:35:20,500 some people don't like Valentine's day, cuz they're -898 +906 00:35:20,500 --> 00:35:21,027 like, "What is this? It's -899 +907 00:35:21,027 --> 00:35:23,263 a commercial holiday to sell us chocolate, and flowers, and -900 +908 00:35:23,263 --> 00:35:25,499 cars." -901 +909 00:35:25,500 --> 00:35:28,700 -And -- but, it's also a day to, +And-- but, it's also a day to, like, remind you to stop -902 +910 00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:33,000 and think like, "Oh, I'm going to tell this person that I -903 +911 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,700 love them today," right? And so, like, we often forget to tell -904 +912 00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:41,000 you every single day that we love you, Kirk. So this is our -905 +913 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,000 Kirk Valentine's Day slash Missy Elliot Day. -906 +914 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,000 Dan: We do love you, Kirk. -907 +915 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:47,000 Bekah: We love you. -908 +916 00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:50,000 Kirk: Ah, see? I wasn't prepared for this either. Go back to -909 +917 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,000 these jokes [Bekah and Dan -laugh]. No, I don't wanna any -- +laugh]. No, I don't wanna any-- -910 +918 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,700 I didn't sign up for any real emotions here. -911 +919 00:35:52,500 --> 00:35:55,586 Dan: Kirk, Kirk, since it's Kirk Day, do you wanna fire Bekah -912 +920 00:35:55,586 --> 00:35:56,000 too? -913 +921 00:35:56,786 --> 00:35:57,000 Kirk: No. -914 +922 00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:58,500 Dan: [Laughs] Alright. -915 +923 00:35:58,500 --> 00:35:59,000 Kirk: I mean- -916 +924 00:35:59,000 --> 00:35:59,500 Bekah: Thank you. -917 +925 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:00,300 Dan: Alright. -918 +926 00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:00,700 Bekah: Thank you. -919 +927 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,637 Kirk: -I feel like [inaudible] I have to be the one person who -920 +928 00:36:05,637 --> 00:36:06,416 doesn't fire you. -921 +929 00:36:06,416 --> 00:36:08,000 -Dan: Alright. I guess it's -- +Dan: Alright. I guess it's-- -922 +930 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,700 Bekah: How many people do you think have fired me? -923 +931 00:36:10,947 --> 00:36:13,677 Kirk: I mean, just based on the chat response, people seem to be -924 +932 00:36:13,677 --> 00:36:18,700 really into you being fired. -Like, as much as like Kirk Day, +Like, as much as, like, Kirk -925 +933 00:36:18,700 --> 00:36:22,700 -like, on their tier list of +Day, like, on their tier list of events, Kirk Day, Bekah being -926 +934 00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:26,000 fired, that's what the people want. -927 +935 00:36:26,967 --> 00:36:29,700 Bekah: The people want me to be -fired [Bekah and Dan laugh]? +fired? [Bekah and Dan laugh] -928 +936 00:36:30,500 --> 00:36:31,000 Kirk: I dunno. -929 +937 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,000 Bekah: I don't even know what to do. I'm gonna have to, like, -930 +938 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:38,000 think about this very hard on my two and a half hour drive home. -931 +939 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,927 Why everybody wants me to be fired? -932 +940 00:36:40,677 --> 00:36:44,000 Kirk: Well, you seem to be like -really enthused about it, to be +really enthused about it to be -933 +941 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,500 honest. Cuz you're the one who brings it up. Dan doesn't bring -934 +942 00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:47,700 it up. -935 +943 00:36:47,700 --> 00:36:50,367 Bekah: No. I'm just shaming him. -936 +944 00:36:50,367 --> 00:36:52,000 Kirk: It's like your origin story. -937 +945 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,626 -Bekah: It is- it is my origin +Bekah: It is-- it is my origin story [Dan and Bekah chuckle]. -938 +946 00:36:58,407 --> 00:37:01,467 Kirk: Not teaching, not the women who code, like, it's -939 +947 00:37:01,467 --> 00:37:03,733 all started when Dan fired me. And then the passion live -940 +948 00:37:03,733 --> 00:37:05,999 inside. -941 +949 00:37:06,500 --> 00:37:07,000 -Bekah: Listen, my -- +Bekah: Listen, my-- -942 +950 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,700 Kirk: The second time it happened, less [??] fire. -943 +951 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,000 Bekah: My other origin story is -not a -- it's- it's not -- +not a-- it's- it's not-- -944 +952 00:37:13,077 --> 00:37:15,000 it's rated PG-13. -945 +953 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,000 Dan: What? -946 +954 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,000 Bekah: Why I got into coding? -947 +955 00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:26,500 Kirk: Oh, why did I get into -coding? I didn't -- I was have +coding? I didn't-- I was have -948 +956 00:37:26,500 --> 00:37:26,657 -to -- +to-- -949 +957 00:37:26,657 --> 00:37:28,500 Bekah: I mean, I can tell that -one, but then people always feel +one but then people always feel -950 +958 00:37:29,146 --> 00:37:31,500 awkward. Cuz, like, when someone asks you how you got into coding -951 +959 00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:34,500 and you use the word vagina, -they're suddenly like, all weird +they're suddenly, like, all -952 +960 00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:34,800 -about it. +weird about it. -953 +961 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,000 Dan: Is that what gets you PG-13? I don't know [inaudible]. -954 +962 00:37:37,300 --> 00:37:39,700 Bekah: Yeah, for sure. I don't think you can say that in a PG -955 +963 00:37:39,700 --> 00:37:40,097 movie [chuckles]. -956 +964 00:37:40,700 --> 00:37:41,300 Dan: Really? -957 +965 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:42,300 -Kirk: I -- +Kirk: I-- -958 +966 00:37:42,300 --> 00:37:42,500 Dan: I don't know. -959 +967 00:37:43,007 --> 00:37:46,000 Bekah: You can drop one f-bomb in a PG-13 movie. So we're saw -960 +968 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,500 a PG-13 here. We're good. -961 +969 00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:47,700 Dan: Boom. -962 +970 00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:48,407 Bekah: Dan, watch yourself. -963 +971 00:37:50,456 --> 00:37:52,000 Dan: What's gonna happen [chuckles]? -964 +972 00:37:52,300 --> 00:37:54,700 Kirk: So, why would you really throw it all to Dan? -965 +973 00:37:54,700 --> 00:37:56,000 Bekah: Because he already dropped one- -966 +974 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:56,500 Dan: That's true. -967 +975 00:37:56,500 --> 00:37:57,000 Bekah: -today. -968 +976 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:57,200 Kirk: Oh. -969 +977 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:58,700 Bekah: He dropped one and only. -970 +978 00:37:58,700 --> 00:37:59,000 Dan: Yeah. -971 +979 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,106 Bekah: He was like, "I'm gonna be the one that gets to drop -972 +980 00:38:01,106 --> 00:38:01,300 it." -973 +981 00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:03,000 -Dan: It's -- cuz I was worried +Dan: It's-- cuz I was worried about you leaving. -974 +982 00:38:04,706 --> 00:38:06,700 Kirk: Okay. Yeah. No. You're in Dan's house now. So you get, -975 +983 00:38:06,700 --> 00:38:07,500 like, what's- -976 +984 00:38:07,500 --> 00:38:08,000 Dan: It's not my house. -977 +985 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,000 Kirk: -where's the body? -978 +986 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,500 Dan: It is my office. It's office. -979 +987 00:38:11,500 --> 00:38:11,700 Kirk: Oh. -980 +988 00:38:11,700 --> 00:38:12,451 Bekah: It is an office. -981 +989 00:38:12,451 --> 00:38:14,846 Dan: Yeah. It's actually -Sprockets' +Sprokets' -982 +990 00:38:14,936 --> 00:38:17,966 -office, which is who I do most -of the work through. But I have +office which is who I do most of +the work through. But I have -983 +991 00:38:17,967 --> 00:38:21,700 my own, like ... well, I don't know this stuff. You know, I -984 +992 00:38:21,700 --> 00:38:23,817 have my own room that is my office in the [inaudible]. -985 +993 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:25,500 Kirk: I interpreted everything- -986 +994 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,700 Dan: What do you call that words of room? What's the word for- -987 +995 00:38:25,700 --> 00:38:28,500 Kirk: -you've said as [inaudible] house- -988 +996 00:38:26,700 --> 00:38:28,000 -Dan: -that? Like, I have like -- +Dan: -that? Like, I have, like-- -989 +997 00:38:28,500 --> 00:38:29,000 Kirk: -in a tree. -990 +998 00:38:28,700 --> 00:38:31,166 -Dan: There is -- there's a suite +Dan: There is-- there's a suite of offices. -991 +999 00:38:31,166 --> 00:38:31,300 Bekah: Yes. -992 +1000 00:38:32,500 --> 00:38:32,927 -Dan: And I have -- +Dan: And I have-- -993 +1001 00:38:32,927 --> 00:38:33,700 Bekah: It's got its own little pod. -994 +1002 00:38:33,700 --> 00:38:34,300 Dan: I have one of them. -995 +1003 00:38:34,700 --> 00:38:36,916 Bekah: There's a conference room and a couple of offices. -996 +1004 00:38:37,487 --> 00:38:38,687 Kirk: I believe that you are both in a tree house. I don't -997 +1005 00:38:39,887 --> 00:38:41,297 believe anything you say. -998 +1006 00:38:41,297 --> 00:38:42,226 Bekah: I would like to be in a tree house. -999 +1007 00:38:42,226 --> 00:38:47,700 Dan: That would be cool. Emily -and I went two weeks -- last +and I went two weeks-- last -1000 +1008 00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:48,987 week? When was I gone? -1001 +1009 00:38:48,987 --> 00:38:50,500 I dunno. Two weeks ago, whatever it was- -1002 +1010 00:38:50,500 --> 00:38:51,000 Bekah: Oh, yeah. -1003 +1011 00:38:51,500 --> 00:38:53,700 Dan: -to Amish country and got a -tree house like Airbnb- +tree house, like, Airbnb- -1004 +1012 00:38:53,700 --> 00:38:54,326 Bekah: Oh, nice. -1005 +1013 00:38:54,326 --> 00:38:57,515 -Dan: -it's like a newly built +Dan: -it's, like, a newly built thing that was, like, well way -1006 +1014 00:38:57,516 --> 00:39:00,000 raised up in the trees and stuff. It was really cool. Yeah. -1007 +1015 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,646 Highly recommend. -1008 +1016 00:39:02,666 --> 00:39:05,697 Bekah: Gemma and I drove through Amish country recently on -1009 +1017 00:39:05,697 --> 00:39:07,500 accident cuz I made a wrong turn. -1010 +1018 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,500 -Dan: Oh, yeah. That's always- +Dan: Oh, yeah. That's always-- that's always a great adventure. -1011 +1019 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,000 Bekah: And we went for shopping. And I- I got some large plastic -1012 +1020 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,806 bins for $3 each. -1013 +1021 00:39:13,916 --> 00:39:14,967 Kirk: Amish plastic bins? -1014 +1022 00:39:15,447 --> 00:39:17,637 Bekah: No. But there were $3 [chuckles]. -1015 +1023 00:39:17,637 --> 00:39:20,097 Dan: One thing I learned, this trip, lots of Amish people now -1016 +1024 00:39:20,126 --> 00:39:23,786 -are into e-bikes, which was a +are into e-bikes which was a surprise to me. But it was cool. -1017 +1025 00:39:23,786 --> 00:39:25,000 Bekah: Ooh. I don't think I see an e-bike. -1018 +1026 00:39:24,266 --> 00:39:26,500 Dan: And it made sense once I -thought about it. So, like lots +thought about it. So, like, lots -1019 -00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:29,700 -of -- and it was honestly, there -was a couple of men, mostly a +1027 +00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:28,100 +of-- and it was-- honestly, +there was a couple of men, -1020 +1028 +00:39:28,100 --> 00:39:29,700 +mostly a + +1029 00:39:29,700 --> 00:39:34,000 lot of women, riding around on the country highways. I mean the -1021 +1030 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:34,500 same highways -1022 -00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:37,706 -that the- the buggies are riding -on, but like -- but they're just +1031 +00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:36,103 +that the-- the buggies are +riding on but, like-- but -1023 +1032 +00:39:36,103 --> 00:39:37,706 +they're just, + +1033 00:39:37,706 --> 00:39:40,376 -like -- and they usually had a +like-- and they usually had a little bike trailer, you know? -1024 +1034 00:39:40,646 --> 00:39:44,300 -But they're just like flying +But they're just, like, flying down. I went on an el- on an -1025 +1035 00:39:44,300 --> 00:39:44,831 electric bike. It's cool. -1026 +1036 00:39:44,831 --> 00:39:45,300 Bekah: Mm. Interesting. -1027 +1037 00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:45,500 Dan: Yeah. -1028 +1038 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,911 Kirk: Fun fact. Early in the -history of bikes, +history of bikes, there -1029 +1039 00:39:49,061 --> 00:39:52,751 -there was like a massive upsurge -in popularity with women +was, like, a massive upsurge in +popularity with women because -1030 +1040 00:39:53,112 --> 00:39:55,811 -because it gave them like assets -to travel and, like, see their +it gave them, like, assets to +travel and, like, see their -1031 +1041 00:39:55,811 --> 00:39:59,411 friends without having to, like, go through their husbands. And -1032 +1042 00:39:59,411 --> 00:40:02,172 -so, there was like a big, like, -reactionary thing so that +so, there was, like, a big, +like, reactionary thing so that -1033 +1043 00:40:02,351 --> 00:40:04,000 -people -- they were, like, +people-- they were, like, published articles about, like, -1034 +1044 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:10,000 the bicycle. Is it ruining your woman [laughs] to get them stay -1035 +1045 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:11,700 home again? Is that how that goes? -1036 +1046 00:40:13,322 --> 00:40:16,700 -I just- I just imagine some like -do just like, "Argh! These +I just-- I just imagine some, +like, do just like, "Argh! These -1037 +1047 00:40:16,700 --> 00:40:19,541 bicycles. They're hanging out with their friends!" -1038 +1048 00:40:20,621 --> 00:40:21,500 Bekah: I don't ride a bicycle. -1039 +1049 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:22,500 Dan: What? -1040 +1050 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,000 Bekah: I don't ride bicycles. -1041 +1051 00:40:24,700 --> 00:40:26,500 Kirk: You can't or you don't? -1042 +1052 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,000 Dan: You don't know how? Or you can't? -1043 +1053 00:40:27,251 --> 00:40:27,700 Bekah: Well, both. -1044 +1054 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:28,811 Dan: You don't know how to ride a bike? -1045 +1055 00:40:28,811 --> 00:40:31,632 Bekah: Well, I- I did. But then I fell off it too many -1046 +1056 00:40:31,632 --> 00:40:33,000 times. So I stopped. -1047 +1057 00:40:32,500 --> 00:40:33,300 Dan: [Inaudible]. -1048 +1058 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:34,000 -Kirk: So, you did know how to +Kirk: So you did know how to ride a bike. -1049 +1059 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,500 Bekah: I don't know. I mean, do you know how if you keep falling -1050 +1060 00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:42,000 off? I had a bunch of stitches in my elbow. See? There's still -1051 +1061 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,000 scar there. I don't think you can see that on screen. -1052 +1062 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:44,700 Dan: I can see it. It's there. -1053 +1063 00:40:44,500 --> 00:40:46,000 Bekah: Thank you. Thanks for confirming. -1054 +1064 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:46,700 Dan: It's very tiny. -1055 +1065 00:40:46,700 --> 00:40:50,000 -Bekah: It was larger, okay. For +Bekah: It was larger, okay? For a long time [laughs]. -1056 +1066 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,000 Kirk: Not a contest. -1057 +1067 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,356 Bekah: I once ran into a pole while riding on a bicycle. -1058 +1068 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:57,700 I don't ride bicycles. -1059 +1069 00:40:57,700 --> 00:41:01,000 -Kirk: [Inaudible], but the story --- +Kirk: [Inaudible] but the +story-- -1060 +1070 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,500 Dan: [Inaudible]. -1061 +1071 00:41:02,097 --> 00:41:03,000 Bekah: I was on a flat path. -1062 +1072 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:03,300 Dan: Yeah. -1063 +1073 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:05,700 Kirk: I can relate [inaudible]. -1064 +1074 00:41:05,500 --> 00:41:07,500 -Dan: I mean, there's like, I -think -- I feel like you know +Dan: I mean, there's, like, I +think-- I feel like you know -1065 +1075 00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:10,000 how. You're just not good at it. And that's fine. I mean, like, -1066 +1076 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,686 -you -- you're allowed to be not +you-- you're allowed to be not good at things, you know? But -1067 +1077 00:41:12,686 --> 00:41:14,000 you know how to ride a bike. That's my point. -1068 +1078 00:41:14,300 --> 00:41:16,000 Bekah: You're saying I'm not good at riding bike? -1069 +1079 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,867 Dan: Yep. Challenge- challenge thrown down [chuckles]. -1070 +1080 00:41:18,867 --> 00:41:20,000 Bekah: I just don't know how [chuckles]. -1071 +1081 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,237 Kirk: Wait. Can you swim? -1072 +1082 00:41:22,166 --> 00:41:23,277 Bekah: I'm a great swimmer. -1073 +1083 00:41:23,907 --> 00:41:26,000 Kirk: Okay. I'm just trying to -figure out, like, on -- in a +figure out, like, on-- in a -1074 +1084 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:26,217 triathlon, like- -1075 +1085 00:41:26,217 --> 00:41:26,400 Dan: Whoa. -1076 +1086 00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:29,000 -Bekah: I was a lifeguard for -like 10 years of my life. +Bekah: I was a lifeguard for, +like, 10 years of my life. -1077 +1087 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,000 -Dan: She used- she used to, +Dan: She used-- she used to, like, very well out there, Kirk. -1078 +1088 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:31,700 Kirk: -where are you struggling? -1079 +1089 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,000 Bekah: I taught children how to swim. I taught swim team. -1080 +1090 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,067 -Kirk: So it's like swimming, +Kirk: So it's, like, swimming, running, cycling. -1081 +1091 00:41:39,027 --> 00:41:40,500 Bekah: Mm, yes. Uh-huh. Yeah. -1082 +1092 00:41:40,500 --> 00:41:41,000 Kirk: Fair. -1083 +1093 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,476 Bekah: That's it. I don't know. I probably would -1084 +1094 00:41:42,476 --> 00:41:45,356 not ride a skateboard. I tried to do that with my child's -1085 +1095 00:41:45,356 --> 00:41:47,291 -skateboard, and I was like, -"This is gonna break my hip." +skateboard and I was like, "This +is gonna break my hip." -1086 +1096 00:41:47,291 --> 00:41:49,900 Dan: It's gonna [inaudible]. Yeah. I was just worried about -1087 +1097 00:41:49,900 --> 00:41:50,000 -my [inaudible] -- +my [inaudible]-- -1088 +1098 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,000 Bekah: No sled riding. I- I once almost broke my hip sled riding. -1089 +1099 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,300 I had to go to the emergency -room. It wasn't broken, but gave +room. It wasn't broken but gave -1090 +1100 00:41:56,300 --> 00:41:58,000 me lifelong problems. -1091 +1101 00:41:58,500 --> 00:41:59,000 Kirk: That's a lot. -1092 +1102 00:41:58,700 --> 00:42:01,000 -Bekah: When I was- I was on a +Bekah: When I was-- I was on a mattress. I sled rode on a -1093 +1103 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,500 mattress. That was a bad idea. -1094 +1104 00:42:02,500 --> 00:42:04,300 Dan: So you were sledding, so much as mattress riding? -1095 +1105 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:05,000 -Bekah: Well, so -- +Bekah: Well, so-- -1096 +1106 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:05,700 Dan: That's a little different. -1097 +1107 00:42:05,700 --> 00:42:08,300 Bekah: I was, like, not good at sled riding. And so then these -1098 +1108 00:42:08,300 --> 00:42:08,700 boys in college- -1099 +1109 00:42:08,700 --> 00:42:09,700 -Kirk: Okay. I'm in a -- +Kirk: Okay. I'm in a-- -1100 +1110 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,500 Bekah: -they were like, "Hey, let's take this mattress and -1101 +1111 00:42:12,500 --> 00:42:13,000 we'll go- -1102 +1112 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:13,500 -Kirk: I mean -- +Kirk: I mean-- -1103 +1113 00:42:13,500 --> 00:42:16,000 Bekah: -on it. And you'll land -on the mattress and it's soft." +on the mattress, and it's soft." -1104 +1114 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:16,500 Dan: Land? -1105 +1115 00:42:16,500 --> 00:42:17,700 Bekah: And that makes sense. -1106 +1116 00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:18,500 Kirk: I'm gonna take pause here. -1107 +1117 00:42:17,967 --> 00:42:19,500 Bekah: Well, okay. So there was a ramp- -1108 +1118 00:42:19,500 --> 00:42:22,000 -Dan: Yeah! Alright. There's -- I +Dan: Yeah! Alright. There's-- I knew there's more of the story. -1109 +1119 00:42:20,300 --> 00:42:22,700 Bekah: -but I was like, "Don't go over the ramp. They promised -1110 +1120 00:42:22,700 --> 00:42:24,146 they wouldn't go over the ramp and you know what- -1111 +1121 00:42:24,146 --> 00:42:24,300 -Kirk: It does -- +Kirk: It does-- -1112 +1122 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,907 Bekah: -happened? Everybody ditched the mattress except me -1113 +1123 00:42:26,907 --> 00:42:30,000 and one other guy. And he landed -on top of me and he was 200 +on top of me, and he was 200 -1114 +1124 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,000 pounds. I landed on my hip on the snow. -1115 +1125 00:42:31,500 --> 00:42:32,700 Dan: That is not sound good. -1116 +1126 00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:33,700 Bekah: It was not good. -1117 +1127 00:42:33,700 --> 00:42:37,000 Kirk: Your story started with, "I'm not good at sled riding." -1118 +1128 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,336 But as far as -1119 +1129 00:42:38,336 --> 00:42:41,456 -I'm aware -- now, remember where +I'm aware-- now, remember where I live. So, I'm admittedly -1120 +1130 00:42:41,456 --> 00:42:45,327 ignorant of these things. But -aren't you just -- isn't it +aren't you just-- isn't it -1121 +1131 00:42:45,327 --> 00:42:47,277 -just like physics happening to +just, like, physics happening to you? -1122 +1132 00:42:47,277 --> 00:42:47,400 Dan: Yeah. -1123 +1133 00:42:47,500 --> 00:42:48,300 -Kirk: Like, how [inaudible] -- +Kirk: Like, how [inaudible]-- -1124 +1134 00:42:48,027 --> 00:42:50,300 Dan: It's mostly the ramp that was a problem. I feel like -1125 +1135 00:42:50,300 --> 00:42:50,597 -for -- +for-- -1126 +1136 00:42:50,500 --> 00:42:50,700 Bekah: Well- -1127 +1137 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:51,500 Dan: The slide riding- -1128 +1138 00:42:51,300 --> 00:42:54,000 -Bekah: -that was- that was my +Bekah: -that was-- that was my second slide riding accident. -1129 +1139 00:42:51,500 --> 00:42:54,000 Dan: -is easiest thing. You just put [inaudible]. Alright, Kirk. -1130 +1140 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,800 You totally right though. You -just like sit on the sled and +just, like, sit on the sled and -1131 +1141 00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:57,000 then- -1132 +1142 00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,000 Kirk: Let the [inaudible], you know? -1133 +1143 00:42:57,300 --> 00:42:59,000 Dan: -let go out the hill. Yeah. -1134 +1144 00:42:59,097 --> 00:43:59,700 Bekah: No! Sometimes, like, you wreck into things on sleds- -1135 +1145 00:43:59,700 --> 00:43:59,701 Dan: So, I feel like the- -1136 +1146 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:02,500 Bekah: -and bikes. -1137 +1147 00:43:02,100 --> 00:43:05,000 Dan: -important part about sled riding is picking your spot. -1138 -00:43:06,387 --> 00:43:09,356 -Cuz if you go where there's like -huge ramps or like — I don't +1148 +00:43:06,387 --> 00:43:07,871 +Cuz if you go where there's, +like, huge ramps or, like — I -1139 +1149 +00:43:07,871 --> 00:43:09,355 +don't + +1150 00:43:09,356 --> 00:43:11,300 know where else you crashed — -but like, trees and stuff, you +but, like, trees and stuff, you -1140 +1151 00:43:11,300 --> 00:43:11,500 know- -1141 +1152 00:43:11,500 --> 00:43:12,500 Bekah: Trees. It was a tree. -1142 +1153 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:12,700 Dan: -probably not a good idea. -1143 +1154 00:43:12,700 --> 00:43:13,700 Bekah: I hit a tree a couple of times [chuckles]. -1144 +1155 00:43:13,700 --> 00:43:15,700 Dan: Yeah, yeah. Well, slides are hard to stee- like, they -1145 +1156 00:43:15,700 --> 00:43:16,137 don't- -1146 +1157 00:43:16,137 --> 00:43:16,300 Bekah: Yeah. -1147 +1158 00:43:16,300 --> 00:43:18,300 -Dan: -they don't s- they don't --- they're not gonna, like, do +Dan: -they don't s- they don't-- +they're not gonna, like, do -1148 +1159 00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:20,000 a sharp turn steer, you know? -1149 +1160 00:43:20,217 --> 00:43:22,500 Bekah: I remastered my fear though. My brother moved- -1150 +1161 00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:22,800 Dan: Sled is fun. -1151 +1162 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,000 Bekah: -down the street and has a great sled riding hill. And I -1152 +1163 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,867 have gone down that hill multiple times. -1153 +1164 00:43:28,047 --> 00:43:31,000 Dan: Yeah. You- you see? You can -affect like s- like slow gradual +affect, like, s- like, slow -1154 +1165 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,300 -turns on sleds. You know what I -mean? But like -- +gradual turns on sleds. You know +what I mean? But, like-- -1155 +1166 00:43:33,500 --> 00:43:35,000 Bekah: I just [inaudible] straight down. -1156 +1167 00:43:35,500 --> 00:43:38,300 -Dan: What -- I mean, I'm saying, +Dan: What-- I mean, I'm saying, you can turn slowly while- -1157 +1168 00:43:38,300 --> 00:43:38,500 Bekah: Yeah. -1158 +1169 00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:39,700 Dan: you're going fast, straight down. -1159 +1170 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,500 Bekah: I was [inaudible] in the ground. -1160 +1171 00:43:40,500 --> 00:43:42,000 Dan: But you have to plan it ahead [laughs]. You have to plan -1161 +1172 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,700 -it ahead or just ditch it, is -what I would -- what I do when I +it ahead or just ditch it is +what I would-- what I do when I -1162 +1173 00:43:44,700 --> 00:43:45,237 wanna control. -1163 +1174 00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:45,300 Bekah: Not gonna say [??]. -1164 +1175 00:43:45,500 --> 00:43:45,700 Dan: Yeah. -1165 +1176 00:43:45,700 --> 00:43:46,500 -Kirk: Now in the chat -- +Kirk: Now in the chat-- -1166 +1177 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,500 Bekah: Jeff is correct. He says I lift heavy things and I put -1167 +1178 00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:49,000 them down. -1168 +1179 00:43:49,137 --> 00:43:50,242 Dan: Yeah. Somebody said we should do a challenge, a bike -1169 +1180 00:43:50,242 --> 00:43:52,500 ride challenge. But it [Bekah laughs] would be [inaudible] -1170 +1181 00:43:52,500 --> 00:43:53,000 I can actually- -1171 +1182 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:53,700 -Kirk: Well, [inaudible] -- +Kirk: Well, [inaudible]-- -1172 +1183 00:43:53,700 --> 00:43:57,000 Dan: -I can sit- sit on a bike, and not move, and not fall over. -1173 +1184 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,086 Bekah: Dan has a nickname for his bike riding. -1174 +1185 00:44:00,700 --> 00:44:01,000 Dan: Yeah. -1175 +1186 00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:02,000 Bekah: Yeah [Bekah and Dan chuckle]. -1176 +1187 00:44:01,617 --> 00:44:05,500 Dan: Yeah. It's Hotshot. Yeah, -somebody named -- I got- +somebody named-- I got- -1177 +1188 00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:07,000 Kirk: [Inaudible]. -1178 +1189 00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:09,000 Dan: -a nickname in- in high school. It- it originally from -1179 +1190 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,926 -bike riding, but ... that was +bike riding but ... that was [Bekah and Dan chuckle] I don't -1180 +1191 00:44:12,927 --> 00:44:13,500 know what all that stuff was, -but -- +but-- -1181 +1192 00:44:13,500 --> 00:44:14,500 Bekah: Oh. Poop emojis? -1182 +1193 00:44:14,700 --> 00:44:18,700 Dan: Oh, nice. Yeah. Bekah's- Bekah's daughters sent me a poop -1183 +1194 00:44:18,700 --> 00:44:23,291 emoji drawings because every time they come on the thing, and -1184 +1195 00:44:23,291 --> 00:44:25,500 they always want, you know, whatever they're waving and -1185 +1196 00:44:25,500 --> 00:44:27,581 stuff. And so I just started sending poop emojis and they -1186 +1197 00:44:27,581 --> 00:44:29,021 -thought of [inaudible]. So -- +thought of [inaudible]. So-- -1187 +1198 00:44:29,021 --> 00:44:31,000 -Kirk: Well, I've always -- -that's been very validating to +Kirk: Well, I've always-- that's +been very validating to -1188 +1199 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,000 me with, like, Bekah's family associates me with, like, -1189 +1200 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,000 pancakes and hot sauce. And, like, Dan gets poop emojis -1190 +1201 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:39,000 [chuckles]. -1191 +1202 00:44:39,500 --> 00:44:40,000 Bekah: So I'd- -1192 +1203 00:44:39,700 --> 00:44:40,300 Dan: [Inaudible]. -1193 +1204 00:44:40,300 --> 00:44:41,000 Bekah: -I don't think anybody knows this story. -1194 +1205 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:41,700 Dan: I'm alright with that. -1195 +1206 00:44:41,700 --> 00:44:44,000 Bekah: The one morning, a couple of weeks ago, we were making -1196 +1207 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,000 pancakes and my daughters decided they were gonna make -1197 +1208 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:52,500 pan-Kirks [chuckles], some pancakes that looked like Kirk. -1198 +1209 00:44:52,500 --> 00:44:54,700 And then they argued over who would eat the pan-Kirk. But -1199 +1210 00:44:54,700 --> 00:44:58,000 -then, it -- we only had a little +then, it-- we only had a little bit of butter left. So there was -1200 +1211 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,300 only one pan-Kirk and it looked -like a tiny baby. So, I think +like a tiny baby. So I think -1201 +1212 00:45:02,300 --> 00:45:06,300 Gemma ate baby pan-Kirk [laughs]. Kirk is like this very -1202 +1213 00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:08,202 -strange [laughs] -- +strange [laughs]-- -1203 +1214 00:45:08,202 --> 00:45:10,000 Kirk: She sent me this, like, "Look! They made, like, -1204 +1215 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,700 pan-Kirks." There's nothing special about the pancakes -1205 +1216 00:45:13,700 --> 00:45:17,000 itself [Bekah laughs]. It's just a small pancake. There's no -1206 +1217 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,700 distinguishing. There's no, like, chocolate chip face. -1207 +1218 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:22,700 It's just a pancake. -1208 +1219 00:45:22,811 --> 00:45:24,702 Bekah: We did our best with what -we had, okay [laughs]? +we had, okay? [Laughs] -1209 +1220 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:27,000 Dan: Oh, man. -1210 +1221 00:45:28,302 --> 00:45:30,000 Kirk: Well, your best is bad. Don't tell them. I was very -1211 +1222 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,222 -[chuckles] -- it's very -heartwarming, but also quite +[chuckles]-- it's very +heartwarming but also quite -1212 +1223 00:45:33,222 --> 00:45:36,492 strange. I only know how to make pancakes from scratch, not -1213 +1224 00:45:36,492 --> 00:45:39,851 the mix. And the, like, proportions I learned it at are -1214 +1225 00:45:39,851 --> 00:45:42,641 the only way I can do it. So I -can only make like enough +can only make, like, enough -1215 +1226 00:45:42,641 --> 00:45:46,500 pancakes, like, a full family. But my family quickly- -1216 +1227 00:45:46,500 --> 00:45:47,000 Dan: [Inaudible]. -1217 +1228 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,700 Kirk: -like, [inaudible] they don't want pancakes. So I would -1218 +1229 00:45:49,700 --> 00:45:53,052 just eat, like, two pounds of -pancakes myself. Cuz I know -- +pancakes myself. Cuz I know-- -1219 +1230 00:45:53,052 --> 00:45:54,000 Bekah: You can freeze them- -1220 +1231 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:55,000 -Dan: Yeah. You- you -- +Dan: Yeah. You- you-- -1221 +1232 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:56,000 Bekah: -and then pop them in the toaster. -1222 +1233 00:45:56,300 --> 00:45:58,032 Dan: Yep. It's true. They're good that way. -1223 +1234 00:45:58,961 --> 00:46:00,700 Kirk: Or I could eat two pounds of pancakes. -1224 +1235 00:46:00,700 --> 00:46:01,211 Dan: Right. -1225 +1236 00:46:01,211 --> 00:46:03,000 Bekah: Yeah. That's [inaudible] [laughs]. -1226 +1237 00:46:01,300 --> 00:46:02,700 Dan: So you're not [inaudible]. You're just bragging at this -1227 +1238 00:46:02,700 --> 00:46:05,442 -point, is you get to eat two +point is you get to eat two pounds of pancakes. -1228 +1239 00:46:05,442 --> 00:46:08,202 Kirk: And then I go up to them like, "You made me do this." -1229 +1240 00:46:08,202 --> 00:46:11,700 [Dan laughs] That's the spirit. -1230 +1241 00:46:11,981 --> 00:46:16,331 -Dan: I -- so we were talking -- -I mean, we wanted to hang out in +Dan: I-- so we were talking-- I +mean, we wanted to hang out in -1231 +1242 00:46:16,331 --> 00:46:18,552 -the stream or whatever, and just +the stream or whatever and just hang out with people. We talked -1232 -00:46:18,552 --> 00:46:21,311 +1243 +00:46:18,552 --> 00:46:19,931 about doing a podcast. Like, -making this like a live podcast +making this, like, a live -1233 +1244 +00:46:19,931 --> 00:46:21,310 +podcast + +1245 00:46:21,311 --> 00:46:26,442 episode. I realized that we didn't do a random question or -1234 +1246 00:46:26,442 --> 00:46:28,500 anything like that. So I was- -1235 +1247 00:46:28,500 --> 00:46:28,700 -Kirk: Wait -- +Kirk: Wait-- -1236 +1248 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,700 -Dan: -just -- I don't have a -plan for this. I was thinking if +Dan: -just-- I don't have a plan +for this. I was thinking if -1237 +1249 00:46:30,700 --> 00:46:33,040 -I had [chuckles] somebody has a --- has- has a good, you know, +I had [chuckles] somebody has +a-- has- has a good, you know, -1238 +1250 00:46:33,041 --> 00:46:35,862 -random question -- or Kirk, if -you -- +random question-- or Kirk, if +you-- -1239 +1251 00:46:35,862 --> 00:46:36,500 Kirk: Well, in VC today- -1240 +1252 00:46:36,500 --> 00:46:38,700 Dan: Or- or a riddle, really, [inaudible] Bekah. -1241 +1253 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:42,700 Kirk: -[inaudible] sort of like fake icebreaker was which part -1242 +1254 00:46:42,700 --> 00:46:43,210 -of -- not +of-- not -1243 +1255 00:46:43,211 --> 00:46:46,092 which part of your body hurts. Cuz the answer can be multiple. -1244 +1256 00:46:46,331 --> 00:46:49,500 Well, like, which is the one you've noticed hurting, like, -1245 +1257 00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:53,500 -most, recently [chuckles]. Cuz -somehow we just all started +most recently [chuckles]. Cuz +somehow, we just all started -1246 +1258 00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:56,000 talking about the parts of our body with, like, creaks. -1247 +1259 00:46:56,300 --> 00:47:00,000 Bekah: My traps [chuckles]. My traps hurt [chuckles]. -1248 +1260 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:01,376 Dan: Which ones are your traps? -1249 +1261 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,000 Bekah: Here, back here. -1250 +1262 00:47:03,300 --> 00:47:04,000 Dan: Oh, okay. -1251 +1263 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:09,700 Bekah: I have built up too much -muscle, and now it's very tight. +muscle and now it's very tight. -1252 +1264 00:47:09,700 --> 00:47:10,500 Dan: I have that problems too. -1253 +1265 00:47:10,257 --> 00:47:11,700 Bekah: And it hurts every day [laughs]. -1254 +1266 00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:12,500 Kirk: You have that problem too, right, Dan? You just way too -1255 +1267 00:47:12,500 --> 00:47:14,817 much muscle. -1256 +1268 00:47:14,817 --> 00:47:17,700 Dan: I didn't do many trapezoid -exercises. So -- +exercises. So-- -1257 +1269 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,000 Kirk: Yeah. When I was a kid in school- -1258 +1270 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:20,500 -Dan: I just -- +Dan: I just-- -1259 +1271 00:47:20,300 --> 00:47:22,500 Kirk: -I did all the triangle -workouts. I saw [inaudible] -- +workouts. I saw [inaudible]-- -1260 +1272 00:47:22,300 --> 00:47:24,167 Dan: You know, I get in the gym -and I think tri- geometry I'm +and I think tri- geometry, I'm -1261 +1273 00:47:24,167 --> 00:47:26,000 -like, "Yo, those trapezoids --" +like, "Yo, those trapezoids ..." -1262 +1274 00:47:26,500 --> 00:47:26,700 Kirk: Boom. -1263 +1275 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:28,500 -Bekah: What about your- what +Bekah: What about your-- what about your [inaudible] -1264 +1276 00:47:28,500 --> 00:47:29,000 trapezoids [chuckles]? -1265 +1277 00:47:25,617 --> 00:47:31,000 Dan: [Inaudible] trapezoids [inaudible]. -1266 +1278 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:32,700 Kirk: [Inaudible]. -1267 +1279 00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:35,300 Dan: And you gotta get the- the whole, the acute- -1268 +1280 00:47:35,300 --> 00:47:35,700 Bekah: Quadercept squad. -1269 +1281 00:47:35,336 --> 00:47:37,601 -Dan: -and the obtuse -- the -acute and the obtuse triangles. +Dan: -and the obtuse-- the acute +and the obtuse triangles. -1270 +1282 00:47:37,601 --> 00:47:41,500 -And then make sure you hit the --- oh, sh- +And then make sure you hit the-- +oh, sh- -1271 +1283 00:47:41,500 --> 00:47:42,500 Bekah: Squares [laughs]. -1272 +1284 00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:44,000 -Dan: Is it -- no. What's the- +Dan: Is it-- no. What's the-- what's the per- is perfect -1273 +1285 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,036 -triangle -- well, no. What's the +triangle-- well, no. What's the ... equal lateral. E-equal -1274 +1286 00:47:47,036 --> 00:47:50,000 -lateral- equal lateral triangle +lateral-- equal lateral triangle as well. Make sure you hit all -1275 +1287 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:51,500 three of those. If you wanna do- -1276 +1288 00:47:51,500 --> 00:47:51,700 Kirk: Yeah. -1277 +1289 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:53,700 Dan: -a full workout, then you get into the 3D and you get some -1278 +1290 00:47:53,700 --> 00:47:57,700 cubes. And, you know, you get -some ... other hydron things -- +some ... other hydron things-- -1279 +1291 00:47:57,700 --> 00:47:59,000 oh, man. This is where I [inaudible]. -1280 +1292 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:00,000 -Kirk: This man is clearly -- +Kirk: This man is clearly-- -1281 +1293 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,907 Dan: I almost said it [laughs]. -1282 +1294 00:48:02,907 --> 00:48:06,387 Kirk: And sports is what we're saying. I think someone in the -1283 +1295 00:48:06,387 --> 00:48:10,286 Slack was like, "Who could lift more weight?" Like, "Who could, -1284 +1296 00:48:10,286 --> 00:48:12,717 like, deadlift more?" I'm like, "It's- it's definitely Bekah." -1285 +1297 00:48:12,746 --> 00:48:15,500 -Dan: A deadlift- a deadlift -- -Bekah would very easily -- I +Dan: A deadlift-- a deadlift-- +Bekah would very easily-- I -1286 +1298 00:48:15,500 --> 00:48:18,000 mean, most of these probably she -would anyway, but like a- a +would anyway, but, like, a- a -1287 +1299 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,700 deadlift, any of the ones where -you need a form -- we need form +you need a form-- we need form -1288 +1300 00:48:20,700 --> 00:48:21,327 and stuff, like- -1289 +1301 00:48:21,327 --> 00:48:22,300 Kirk: That's all of them. -1290 +1302 00:48:22,300 --> 00:48:24,416 -Dan: -the proper form -- I'm +Dan: -the proper form-- I'm saying, I would just kill -1291 +1303 00:48:24,416 --> 00:48:26,051 -myself. Like, I would like -- my +myself. Like, I would like-- my back would throw [inaudible] or -1292 +1304 00:48:26,051 --> 00:48:30,000 something. You know what I mean? I have [inaudible] literally -1293 +1305 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,500 never works out. Like, I'm fairly strong, but Bekah works -1294 +1306 00:48:33,500 --> 00:48:37,700 out all the time and it is very -strong. I feel like a- I feel +strong. I feel like a-- I feel -1295 +1307 00:48:37,700 --> 00:48:39,000 like a bench press is where I- -1296 +1308 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:39,300 Bekah: Yeah. -1297 +1309 00:48:37,853 --> 00:48:41,700 Dan: -like, I feel like a bench press, I probably could equal -1298 +1310 00:48:41,700 --> 00:48:42,000 her. -1299 +1311 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:42,300 Kirk: Okay. -1300 +1312 00:48:42,300 --> 00:48:43,000 -Dan: I dunno- I don't- +Dan: I dunno-- I don't- -1301 +1313 00:48:42,700 --> 00:48:44,700 -Bekah: Oh, you for sure could +Bekah: Oh, you, for sure, could ... kill me. -1302 -00:48:43,101 --> 00:48:46,371 -Dan: -think you were -- but like --- be- because with bench press, +1314 +00:48:43,101 --> 00:48:44,736 +Dan: -think you were-- but, +like-- be- because with bench -1303 +1315 +00:48:44,736 --> 00:48:46,371 +press, + +1316 00:48:46,371 --> 00:48:48,000 I don't have to worry about hurting myself very badly -1304 +1317 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:49,000 [chuckles] cuz my back is supported. -1305 +1318 00:48:48,500 --> 00:48:49,500 Kirk: You could just sit. I -mean, I've seen -- +mean, I've seen-- -1306 +1319 00:48:49,641 --> 00:48:51,700 Dan: You know what I mean? -[Laughs] Then it's just like -- +[Laughs] Then it's just, like-- -1307 +1320 00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:55,500 -and then it's ... you know? But -like, any of the ones that like +and then it's ... you know? But, +like, any of the ones that, -1308 +1321 00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:58,300 -requires skill? I mean, she's- +like, requires skill? I mean, +she's- -1309 +1322 00:48:58,461 --> 00:49:00,000 Bekah: Jesse and I talked about it last night. -1310 +1323 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:00,700 Dan: -she's killing it. [Inaudible]. -1311 +1324 00:49:00,500 --> 00:49:02,481 Bekah: I was like, "I think Dan could crush me in bench -1312 +1325 00:49:02,481 --> 00:49:03,000 pressing." -1313 +1326 00:49:02,911 --> 00:49:04,000 -Dan: I'm- I'm I'm sup- I'm like- +Dan: I'm- I'm- I'm sup- I'm, +like- -1314 +1327 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:04,700 Bekah: He was on board for that. -1315 +1328 00:49:04,300 --> 00:49:06,500 Dan: -supposedly strong for somebody who doesn't ever work -1316 +1329 00:49:06,500 --> 00:49:06,700 out. -1317 +1330 00:49:06,700 --> 00:49:09,700 Kirk: What I wanna know is who wins in cycling. I think you -1318 +1331 00:49:09,700 --> 00:49:10,882 could have an edge there. -1319 +1332 00:49:11,722 --> 00:49:12,300 Bekah: Oh, for sure. -1320 +1333 00:49:12,300 --> 00:49:12,500 Dan: Cycling? -1321 +1334 00:49:12,500 --> 00:49:14,700 Bekah: I- I don't know how to cycle [laughs]. -1322 +1335 00:49:14,700 --> 00:49:16,500 Kirk: After, you know? -1323 +1336 00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:18,500 Bekah: Stationary bicycle? -1324 +1337 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,311 -Kirk: After, like, elbow scar +Kirk: After, like, Elbow Scar McGee over there. You got a -1325 +1338 00:49:22,311 --> 00:49:22,641 chance. -1326 +1339 00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:24,500 -Dan: Although, if we're going to -have it -- so, somebody +Dan: Although if we're going to +have it-- so, somebody -1327 +1340 00:49:24,500 --> 00:49:26,500 mentioned triathlons. And -there's like triathlon teams +there's, like, triathlon teams -1328 +1341 00:49:26,500 --> 00:49:28,300 -too. So every -- most -triathlons- +too. So every-- most triathlons- -1329 +1342 00:49:28,300 --> 00:49:28,500 Bekah: Oh. -1330 +1343 00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:29,700 -Dan: -they have like team for +Dan: -they have, like, team for competition, you know, as well. -1331 +1344 00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:33,700 -So, if we do a triathlon, would +So if we do a triathlon, would you do run or swim? -1332 +1345 00:49:34,300 --> 00:49:35,000 Bekah: Probably swim. -1333 +1346 00:49:35,500 --> 00:49:37,617 Dan: Alright. So Kirk, that means you're on running? -1334 +1347 00:49:37,617 --> 00:49:40,000 [Inaudible]. -1335 +1348 00:49:40,797 --> 00:49:45,500 Kirk: What am I better at than the two of you ... jokes? Ooh. -1336 +1349 00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:48,000 Bekah: Ha-ha. Grrr. -1337 +1350 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,237 Kirk: What am I better at sports wise? -1338 +1351 00:49:51,806 --> 00:49:54,626 Dan: No, Joe. Bekah would win at push-ups easily. -1339 +1352 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:55,300 Kirk: Easy. -1340 +1353 00:49:55,300 --> 00:49:58,500 -Bekah: Oh, I don't know. I -- my -shoulder is -- Kirk is still in +Bekah: Oh, I don't know. I-- my +shoulder is-- Kirk is still in -1341 +1354 00:49:58,500 --> 00:50:00,626 the hundred push-ups challenge, right? -1342 +1355 00:50:00,987 --> 00:50:03,447 Kirk: Yeah. But I don't do, -like, the full ones. I'm doing +like, the full ones. I'm doing, -1343 +1356 00:50:03,447 --> 00:50:04,500 -like incline. No shame. +like, incline. No shame. -1344 +1357 00:50:05,847 --> 00:50:08,500 -Bekah: I -- my -- I hear my +Bekah: I-- my-- I hear my shoulder. I have a torn -1345 +1358 00:50:08,500 --> 00:50:09,000 something. -1346 +1359 00:50:09,300 --> 00:50:11,300 Dan: You know, my thing with- with push-ups, honestly, that -1347 +1360 00:50:11,300 --> 00:50:14,000 -bothers me, is my wrists aren't +bothers me is my wrists aren't flexible. Therefore my wrist -1348 +1361 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:14,500 hurt- -1349 +1362 00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:14,700 Bekah: Oh, yeah- -1350 +1363 00:50:14,700 --> 00:50:15,500 Dan: -from bending back. -1351 +1364 00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,000 Bekah: -you gotta work on that. -1352 +1365 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,000 Dan: Yeah. Like, they don't, -like -- +like-- -1353 +1366 00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,246 Bekah: My right wrist, from using the mouse all the time, -1354 +1367 00:50:20,246 --> 00:50:21,597 is definitely tighter than my left one. -1355 +1368 00:50:21,597 --> 00:50:24,146 Dan: Yeah. I'm sure I could work -on it if I want it to. But, +on it if I want it to. But-- -1356 +1369 00:50:24,146 --> 00:50:24,300 yeah. -1357 +1370 00:50:24,700 --> 00:50:26,456 -Kirk: The tunnel- the tunnel I +Kirk: The tunnel-- the tunnel I traveled through the most is -1358 +1371 00:50:26,456 --> 00:50:30,000 carpool [??], for sure. But, like, they have those things, -1359 +1372 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,700 like, those things you can fold instead of pressing your arms -1360 +1373 00:50:32,700 --> 00:50:35,936 flat on the ground. But they -just -- they hurt- +just-- they hurt- -1361 +1374 00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:36,300 Bekah: Yeah. -1362 +1375 00:50:36,300 --> 00:50:38,300 Kirk: -just put your arm in a -different way. So I'm like- +different way. So I'm, like- -1363 +1376 00:50:38,300 --> 00:50:38,561 Bekah: Yeah. -1364 +1377 00:50:38,561 --> 00:50:42,300 Kirk: -this just transferred the -pain from like doing this to +pain from, like, doing this to, -1365 +1378 00:50:42,300 --> 00:50:45,500 -like straight through. So it +like, straight through. So it doesn't help at all. -1366 +1379 00:50:45,500 --> 00:50:47,000 Dan: Yeah. Did you read Nick's comment? -1367 +1380 00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:48,000 Bekah: Na- no. -1368 +1381 00:50:48,500 --> 00:50:50,000 Dan: Nick just says, "I saw someone mountain biking on a -1369 +1382 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,700 unicycle in a forest outside of Montreal. I wave to them and -1370 +1383 00:50:52,700 --> 00:50:55,000 they fell. I laughed." -1371 +1384 00:50:55,700 --> 00:50:58,000 Bekah: [All laugh] That's like a -joker, but true story. +joker but true story. -1372 +1385 00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:58,000 -Dan: Nick- Nick, that does sound --- +Dan: Nick- Nick, that does +sound-- -1373 +1386 00:50:58,500 --> 00:50:59,800 Kirk: It's Montreal. So it's definitely [inaudible] -1374 +1387 00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:04,000 [all laugh]. My trip to go home [inaudible]. -1375 +1388 00:51:03,300 --> 00:51:07,000 Dan: Oh, man. [Inaudible]. I -just imagine them like doing a +just imagine them, like, doing a -1376 +1389 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:11,000 jump [Bekah chuckles] on a unicycle, waving to Nick, and -1377 +1390 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:14,500 then, like, seeing them veer off into a tree and yelling "Sacré -1378 +1391 00:51:14,500 --> 00:51:16,000 bleu," or something like that [laughs]. -1379 +1392 00:51:16,601 --> 00:51:18,500 Kirk: It's like "The Office". They have to yell, "Parkour! -1380 +1393 00:51:18,500 --> 00:51:19,001 Parkour!" -1381 +1394 00:51:19,001 --> 00:51:21,072 Bekah: Oh, my gosh. My kids love that. -1382 +1395 00:51:22,512 --> 00:51:23,500 -Kirk: Then, it'll away. No -- +Kirk: Then, it'll away. No-- -1383 +1396 00:51:23,500 --> 00:51:24,700 Bekah: A mountain bike unicycle? -1384 +1397 00:51:24,500 --> 00:51:25,300 Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? -1385 +1398 00:51:25,300 --> 00:51:26,000 Bekah: I didn't even know it was a thing. -1386 +1399 00:51:26,001 --> 00:51:28,500 Dan: I've- I've seen those for sure. A-and, like, the people -1387 +1400 00:51:28,500 --> 00:51:32,000 do, like, insane things on them. I've- I've seen them once. Oh, -1388 +1401 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,500 I- I don't think I've seen them -in real life, but I've seen them +in real life but I've seen them -1389 +1402 00:51:34,500 --> 00:51:38,500 on YouTube. If you want to know -more, let me do -- +more, let me do-- -1390 +1403 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,700 -Kirk: I want to -- you know, on +Kirk: I want to-- you know, on Spiderman, when they tell him -1391 +1404 00:51:39,700 --> 00:51:42,300 do a flip, and then he does the flip, and then he was like "Oh, -1392 +1405 00:51:42,300 --> 00:51:42,500 that's- -1393 +1406 00:51:42,500 --> 00:51:42,700 Dan: Yeah. -1394 +1407 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,000 Kirk: -so cool." I want to be on, like, both ends of that. I -1395 +1408 00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,300 wanna be the person saying do the flip and then someone else -1396 +1409 00:51:48,300 --> 00:51:51,700 does the flip. And someone says -to me, I wanna be able to do the +to me, "I wanna be able to do -1397 +1410 00:51:51,700 --> 00:51:53,000 -flip in that moment. +the flip," in that moment. -1398 +1411 00:51:52,500 --> 00:51:53,500 Dan: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. -1399 +1412 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,231 Kirk: But that's never gonna happen. Just, backflips are -1400 +1413 00:51:56,231 --> 00:51:59,172 terrifying. What am I better at -than the two of you? This is -- +than the two of you? This is-- -1401 +1414 00:51:59,172 --> 00:51:59,831 I gotta figure this out. -1402 +1415 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,700 Bekah: Kindness [chuckles], documentation- -1403 +1416 00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:04,300 Kirk: No. -1404 +1417 00:52:04,500 --> 00:52:05,000 Bekah: -Elm- -1405 +1418 00:52:05,700 --> 00:52:06,000 Kirk: Yes. -1406 +1419 00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:06,300 Bekah: -games. -1407 +1420 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:08,000 Kirk: Hmm. -1408 +1421 00:52:08,952 --> 00:52:10,700 Bekah: Well, I don't know if Dan's better than you at games -1409 +1422 00:52:10,700 --> 00:52:13,692 -or not. I like games, and very +or not. I like games and very bad at them. -1410 +1423 00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,700 -Kirk: I only like like two -things. But I've -- it's -- +Kirk: I only like, like, two +things. But I've-- it's-- -1411 +1424 00:52:16,700 --> 00:52:17,000 Bekah: Yoga. -1412 +1425 00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,700 -Kirk: Hmm. Not anymore. That's --- +Kirk: Hmm. Not anymore. That's-- -1413 +1426 00:52:21,911 --> 00:52:23,700 Bekah: Have you seen Dan do yoga? -1414 +1427 00:52:23,996 --> 00:52:29,000 Kirk: I would pay money. I -would- I would donate time and +would-- I would donate time and -1415 +1428 00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,000 money to make that happen [Bekah chuckles]. -1416 +1429 00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:32,000 -Dan: I'm -- +Dan: I'm-- -1417 +1430 00:52:32,246 --> 00:52:34,500 Bekah: Kirk, Kirk, it is Kirk Day. You are allowed to ask him -1418 +1431 00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:35,700 to do whatever you want- -1419 +1432 00:52:35,700 --> 00:52:37,500 Dan: Listen, I'm not doing any [inaudible] right now. -1420 +1433 00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,000 Bekah: -right now, okay? No, we're not [??]. -1421 +1434 00:52:37,500 --> 00:52:40,000 Kirk: Not like the day of my daughter's weddings [??] -1422 +1435 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:41,000 [laughs]. Thank god. -1423 +1436 00:52:41,500 --> 00:52:45,000 Dan: [Inaudible]. I don't know. -The -- I just -- I'm not very +The-- I just-- I'm not very -1424 +1437 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,757 -flexible at all that. I'm -- +flexible at all that. I'm-- it's- it's a known fact. -1425 +1438 00:52:47,757 --> 00:52:49,000 Bekah: Haikus, Kirk. -1426 +1439 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:50,000 Kirk: Oh, yeah. -1427 +1440 00:52:50,500 --> 00:52:53,000 Bekah: Poetry. Maybe. I don't know. -1428 +1441 00:52:53,396 --> 00:52:55,500 -Kirk: Well, you -- you're- -you're a poet. You poet. You +Kirk: Well, you-- you're- you're +a poet. You poet. You -1429 +1442 00:52:55,500 --> 00:52:55,700 poem. -1430 +1443 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:57,500 Bekah: Yeah. For sure, yeah [laughs]. -1431 +1444 00:52:57,500 --> 00:52:58,700 Dan: We all have dabbled in the poetry. -1432 +1445 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,000 Bekah: We've dab- we have all three dabbled in the poetry. -1433 +1446 00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:02,300 -Dan: I have -- +Dan: I have-- -1434 +1447 00:53:02,300 --> 00:53:02,500 -Kirk: One day -- +Kirk: One day-- -1435 +1448 00:53:02,697 --> 00:53:05,500 Bekah: You may be able to find -all three of our poetry online, +all three of our poetry online -1436 +1449 00:53:05,500 --> 00:53:08,300 if you search hard enough [Bekah and Dan laugh]. -1437 +1450 00:53:08,666 --> 00:53:11,300 Kirk: I used to have a website. The first website I ever made -1438 +1451 00:53:11,300 --> 00:53:11,456 was -1439 +1452 00:53:11,456 --> 00:53:16,121 a WordPress site. It was called Shiver Sharks. Cuz that's a -1440 +1453 00:53:16,121 --> 00:53:18,700 -collective noun for sharks, and -I found out. Cuz everyone else +collective noun for sharks and I +found out. Cuz everyone else -1441 +1454 00:53:18,700 --> 00:53:21,882 -does like a poet of owls or like -one on ones everyone +does, like, a poet of owls or, +like, one on ones everyone -1442 +1455 00:53:21,882 --> 00:53:23,700 -knows. So, I'm like, "Give me a -weird ones like a shiver or +knows. So I'm like, "Give me a +weird ones, like a shiver or -1443 +1456 00:53:23,700 --> 00:53:26,700 something like that." Great. And -then I met the -- I saw someone +then I met the-- I saw someone -1444 +1457 00:53:26,700 --> 00:53:32,500 -who had the murder of crows, and +who had the murder of crows and I was like, "Boring." I really -1445 +1458 00:53:32,500 --> 00:53:37,700 judged them about that. But my website's gone. So [all laugh]. -1446 +1459 00:53:37,700 --> 00:53:39,700 I don't know what happened to it. WordPress was just like, -1447 +1460 00:53:39,700 --> 00:53:43,000 "You don't do enough." [Inaudible]. -1448 +1461 00:53:44,700 --> 00:53:45,000 Dan: Hm. -1449 +1462 00:53:45,300 --> 00:53:45,700 Bekah: Oh, no. -1450 +1463 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,000 -Kirk: And I think I saved- I +Kirk: And I think I saved-- I think I saved everything from it -1451 +1464 00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:58,000 as a RTF Rich Text. I'm like, "This is great." Lost that file. -1452 +1465 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:04,700 Worthless. Unhelpful. This was before I knew about markdown or -1453 +1466 00:54:04,700 --> 00:54:06,000 anything, really. -1454 +1467 00:54:07,722 --> 00:54:08,112 Bekah: Yeah. -1455 +1468 00:54:08,112 --> 00:54:09,000 Dan: Yeah. -1456 +1469 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:10,000 Bekah: Same. -1457 +1470 00:54:10,646 --> 00:54:13,827 Kirk: Does anyone remember that thing we used to use to make -1458 +1471 00:54:13,827 --> 00:54:19,376 websites? Ah. My professor in -university used it. Eclipse -- +university used it. Eclipse-- -1459 +1472 00:54:19,436 --> 00:54:20,000 no. -1460 +1473 00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:20,817 Dan: Dreamweaver? -1461 +1474 00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:21,700 Bekah: I love Dreamweaver. -1462 +1475 00:54:21,300 --> 00:54:23,000 Kirk: Dreamweaver! -1463 +1476 00:54:23,967 --> 00:54:26,000 Bekah: That was the first time I -ever code, it was in +ever code. It was in -1464 +1477 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:26,456 Dreamweaver. -1465 +1478 00:54:26,487 --> 00:54:26,666 Dan: Yeah. -1466 +1479 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:27,300 Kirk: Yes. -1467 +1480 00:54:27,700 --> 00:54:30,000 Dan: Yeah. I spent years in Dreamweaver, for sure. -1468 +1481 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:31,500 -Kirk: It was -- +Kirk: It was-- -1469 +1482 00:54:31,947 --> 00:54:34,000 Bekah: I wanna do yoga with the goat too. -1470 +1483 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:34,500 Kirk: What? -1471 +1484 00:54:34,500 --> 00:54:38,500 Bekah: Vir- Virtual Coffee retreat at Glenn's house. -1472 +1485 00:54:38,500 --> 00:54:42,447 Kirk: I've seen the goat yoga videos. And as somebody who, -1473 +1486 00:54:42,447 --> 00:54:45,500 -like -- I see goats every day. +like-- I see goats every day. Goats poop. -1474 +1487 00:54:45,500 --> 00:54:46,257 Dan: That's a real thing. -1475 +1488 00:54:46,700 --> 00:54:47,000 Bekah: Yeah. -1476 +1489 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:49,300 Kirk: Goats poop. -1477 +1490 00:54:49,700 --> 00:54:52,500 Dan: Is the goat doing yoga too -or is the goat just like -- +or is the goat just, like-- -1478 -00:54:52,500 --> 00:54:56,000 +1491 +00:54:52,500 --> 00:54:54,250 Kirk: You do the yoga, and a -bunch of little like kid goats, +bunch of little, like, kid -1479 +1492 +00:54:54,250 --> 00:54:56,000 +goats, + +1493 00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,700 just kind of, like, amble about, and sometimes they just climb -1480 +1494 00:54:58,700 --> 00:55:00,717 you cuz that's their thing. -1481 +1495 00:55:00,717 --> 00:55:01,286 -Dan: Oh, sure. I mean that -- +Dan: Oh, sure. I mean that-- yeah. -1482 +1496 00:55:01,556 --> 00:55:03,700 Bekah: Can we do it with fainting goats too? And then we -1483 +1497 00:55:03,700 --> 00:55:05,500 could, like, jump up and scare 'em? -1484 +1498 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:06,500 Dan: Fireworks. -1485 +1499 00:55:06,300 --> 00:55:07,300 Kirk: You're mean to the goats. -1486 +1500 00:55:08,396 --> 00:55:10,500 Dan: Yeah, Nick, I use Fireworks. Yeah, Dreamewea- so -1487 +1501 00:55:10,500 --> 00:55:12,000 that's the Macromedia suite, like- -1488 +1502 00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:12,700 Bekah: Oh, yeah. -1489 -00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:14,700 +1503 +00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:13,850 Dan: -Dreamweaver, Fireworks, -and then like Flash, if you do a +and then, like, Flash, if you do -1490 +1504 +00:55:13,850 --> 00:55:14,700 +a + +1505 00:55:14,700 --> 00:55:19,000 Flash. And ... there was another one that I didn't use very much, -1491 +1506 00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,500 -like a more of designing one. +like, a more of designing one. But ... yeah. I was in -1492 +1507 00:55:22,500 --> 00:55:24,500 -Dreamweavers, Fireworks -- and, +Dreamweavers, Fireworks-- and, like, Dreamweaver was actually -1493 +1508 00:55:24,500 --> 00:55:29,000 really good. Even not using the, -like, generated stuff, but it +like, generated stuff but it -1494 +1509 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,500 was a good, like, code editor. Like, I used it- -1495 +1510 00:55:30,500 --> 00:55:30,700 Bekah: Yeah. -1496 +1511 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,856 Dan: -as my, like, just code -editor for -- I dunno. I dunno +editor for-- I dunno. I dunno -1497 +1512 00:55:34,887 --> 00:55:35,500 -when I stopped. But like a long -time. [Inaudible]. +when I stopped. But, like, a +long time. [Inaudible]. -1498 +1513 00:55:35,700 --> 00:55:39,327 -Bekah: Well, my first job out of --- my first full-time job out +Bekah: Well, my first job out +of-- my first full-time job out -1499 +1514 00:55:39,327 --> 00:55:41,786 of college, I was a community organizer for an environmental -1500 +1515 00:55:41,786 --> 00:55:44,000 non-profit. And the executive director- -1501 +1516 00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:44,700 Kirk: [Inaudible] tracks [??]. -1502 +1517 00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:46,887 Bekah: -my first week, he was -1503 +1518 00:55:46,887 --> 00:55:51,300 -like, "Do you know how to use -- -how -- do you know code?" Like, +like, "Do you know how to use-- +how-- do you know code?" Like, -1504 -00:55:51,300 --> 00:55:54,700 +1519 +00:55:51,300 --> 00:55:53,000 "No." He was like, "Okay. Go -home this weekend and learn HTML +home this weekend, and learn -1505 -00:55:54,700 --> 00:55:58,700 -and CSS. And I was like, "Okay." -Like, Jesse was my boyfriend at +1520 +00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:54,700 +HTML -1506 -00:55:58,700 --> 00:56:02,500 -the time. And I went home and he -had like textbooks on HTML and +1521 +00:55:54,700 --> 00:55:56,700 +and CSS." And I was like, +"Okay." Like, Jesse was my -1507 +1522 +00:55:56,700 --> 00:55:58,700 +boyfriend at + +1523 +00:55:58,700 --> 00:56:00,600 +the time. And I went home, and +he had, like, textbooks on HTML + +1524 +00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:02,500 +and + +1525 00:56:02,500 --> 00:56:04,700 -CSS. So, then we went over those -things, and like, "All right, I +CSS. So then we went over those +things and like, "All right, I -1508 +1526 00:56:04,700 --> 00:56:05,967 know it. I know it now [laughs]." -1509 +1527 00:56:07,300 --> 00:56:07,700 Dan: That's awesome. -1510 +1528 00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,476 Kirk: It took all weekend. I'm pretty much an expert. -1511 +1529 00:56:10,476 --> 00:56:12,000 Dan: Nailed it. Yep. Yeah. -1512 +1530 00:56:13,146 --> 00:56:16,300 Kirk: Just to say, Jeff- Jeff, in the chat, was like, "Do -1513 +1531 00:56:16,300 --> 00:56:19,072 push-ups on your fists, no full wrist bend." Again, like, we're -1514 +1532 00:56:19,072 --> 00:56:22,000 just trading problems here [Bekah chuckles]. -1515 +1533 00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:29,467 -That's not- that's not better. -Yeah. Shoutout to -- +That's not-- that's not better. +Yeah. Shoutout to-- -1516 -00:56:29,467 --> 00:56:32,077 -that's a Dreamweaver. I remember -like a lot of purple. It was all +1534 +00:56:29,467 --> 00:56:30,772 +that's a Dreamweaver. I +remember, like, a lot of purple. -1517 +1535 +00:56:30,772 --> 00:56:32,077 +It was all, + +1536 00:56:32,077 --> 00:56:35,257 -like purple involved for some +like, purple involved for some reason. Oh, I have a great bad -1518 +1537 00:56:35,257 --> 00:56:38,047 joke. I just heard it. This is -apparently very popular, but +apparently very popular but -1519 +1538 00:56:38,077 --> 00:56:41,300 it's the first time I heard it. Bekah, don't ... ruin it. -1520 +1539 00:56:41,300 --> 00:56:41,500 Bekah: Okay. -1521 +1540 00:56:43,700 --> 00:56:44,000 -Kirk: Which -- +Kirk: Which-- -1522 +1541 00:56:44,067 --> 00:56:44,700 Dan: Or Kirk's gonna fire you. -1523 +1542 00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:46,500 -Kirk: I -- do- +Kirk: I-- do- -1524 +1543 00:56:46,500 --> 00:56:47,000 Bekah: Kirk doesn't fire me. -1525 +1544 00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:51,000 Kirk: -all Java developers wear glasses? -1526 +1545 00:56:53,876 --> 00:56:55,527 Dan: This is where you say, "I don't know why." -1527 +1546 00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:59,000 Bekah: Oh. [Dan chuckles] I don't know why. -1528 +1547 00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,757 Kirk: That was really good. Because they can't see sharp. -1529 +1548 00:57:04,166 --> 00:57:05,000 Dan: Aah. -1530 +1549 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:08,306 Bekah: Ooh, nice. I was not going in that direction. I was -1531 +1550 00:57:08,306 --> 00:57:08,847 -going more with -- +going more with-- -1532 +1551 00:57:09,117 --> 00:57:12,700 Kirk: If- if you were a software -developer in like 1998, that +developer in, like, 1998, that -1533 +1552 00:57:12,700 --> 00:57:16,000 would have been incredibly [inaudible][chuckles]. Like, -1534 +1553 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:17,487 -back when they were basically -like -- +back when they were basically, +like-- -1535 +1554 00:57:17,757 --> 00:57:22,000 Dan: I never heard of C# in 1998. This is like C++ isn't it? -1536 +1555 00:57:22,500 --> 00:57:23,967 When did C# become a thing? -1537 +1556 00:57:24,356 --> 00:57:29,700 Kirk: Okay. 2005. That's, again, -you know, back when like -- +you know, back when, like-- -1538 +1557 00:57:29,500 --> 00:57:31,996 -Bekah: Well, you're like 13. You -didn't hear of anything. +Bekah: Well, you're, like, 13. +You didn't hear of anything. -1539 +1558 00:57:31,996 --> 00:57:34,000 Dan: I wasn't 13. We don't need -to talk about how old I was, +to talk about how old I was -1540 +1559 00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:37,500 -but I wasn't -- I was in -computer science in college, +but I wasn't-- I was in computer +science in college, -1541 +1560 00:57:37,500 --> 00:57:39,286 -which was after that. And -- +which was after that. And-- -1542 +1561 00:57:39,286 --> 00:57:41,700 Kirk: Nick Taylor's heard it though. That's all the -1543 +1562 00:57:41,700 --> 00:57:43,000 validation I need. -1544 +1563 00:57:42,700 --> 00:57:47,000 Dan: [Inaudible] C++. Does C++ not exist anymore? -1545 +1564 00:57:47,186 --> 00:57:51,500 Kirk: Yeah. People use it to write- -1546 +1565 00:57:51,500 --> 00:57:52,700 Dan: What's the difference between that and C#? -1547 +1566 00:57:52,700 --> 00:57:55,387 -Kirk: -Unity -- whoa, whoa, +Kirk: -Unity-- whoa, whoa, buddy. -1548 +1567 00:57:55,387 --> 00:57:56,500 Dan: I don't know. I'm asking. -1549 +1568 00:57:56,500 --> 00:57:57,000 Bekah: How dare you. -1550 +1569 00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:57,500 -Kirk: I mean -- +Kirk: I mean-- -1551 +1570 00:57:57,500 --> 00:57:58,700 -Dan: I'm not- I'm not saying +Dan: I'm not-- I'm not saying there's no difference. I'm -1552 +1571 00:57:58,700 --> 00:58:00,000 literally asking. I don't know. -1553 +1572 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,572 Kirk: C# is all .NET, right? It's all Microsoft. -1554 +1573 00:58:02,572 --> 00:58:03,000 Dan: Oh, okay. -1555 +1574 00:58:03,572 --> 00:58:07,500 -Kirk: Right? That's this -- if +Kirk: Right? That's this-- if you're in Microsoft, 90% of -1556 +1575 00:58:07,500 --> 00:58:14,700 the time you're writing C#. And C++ is not. C++ is still -1557 -00:58:14,700 --> 00:58:21,700 +1576 +00:58:14,700 --> 00:58:18,200 considered like the lang du jour -for like high-performance stuff +for, like, high-performance -1558 +1577 +00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,700 +stuff + +1578 00:58:21,700 --> 00:58:26,700 if you don't wanna get, like, down to C, I guess. But I feel -1559 +1579 00:58:26,700 --> 00:58:29,300 like C++, their [??] favorite -thing to do is like complain +thing to do is, like, complain -1560 +1580 00:58:29,300 --> 00:58:30,700 about C++ [chuckles]. -1561 +1581 00:58:30,700 --> 00:58:31,000 Dan: [Chuckles] Sure. -1562 +1582 00:58:31,931 --> 00:58:32,621 Kirk: Kinda like JavaScript devs. -1563 +1583 00:58:32,621 --> 00:58:34,406 -Dan: Like, yeah, you -- if you +Dan: Like-- yeah, you-- if you get to a certain level, that's -1564 +1584 00:58:34,406 --> 00:58:35,351 -just gonna be -- +just gonna be-- -1565 +1585 00:58:35,351 --> 00:58:37,871 Kirk: Yeah. Like, if it's useful enough, like, there'll be enough -1566 +1586 00:58:37,871 --> 00:58:40,300 code written, then there isn't something to complain about. -1567 +1587 00:58:40,782 --> 00:58:45,000 Dan: Like, Emily ... tells -people -- like, sh- she was a -- +people-- like, sh- she was a-- -1568 +1588 00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:47,300 on a trip with her grandma and she's like, "Yeah, Dan hates -1569 +1589 00:58:47,300 --> 00:58:50,300 computers." And she knows that, -like, I do this -- I do this +like, I do this-- I do this -1570 +1590 00:58:50,300 --> 00:58:52,500 for a living, you know? But it's -true. [Laughs] I'm like -- I +true. [Laughs] I'm, like-- I -1571 +1591 00:58:52,500 --> 00:58:54,700 -just -- she- she didn't -understand -- you know, she's +just-- she- she didn't +understand-- you know, she's -1572 +1592 00:58:54,700 --> 00:58:57,500 like, "What? What does that mean?" She's like, "Yeah. Dan -1573 +1593 00:58:57,500 --> 00:58:59,300 hates computers." I'm like -[laughs] -- cuz she told me a +[laughs]-- cuz she told me a -1574 +1594 00:58:59,300 --> 00:59:01,700 -story -- cuz I was like -- oh, -yesterday, I spent like three +story-- cuz I was like-- oh, +yesterday, I spent, like, three -1575 +1595 00:59:01,700 --> 00:59:05,592 -hours trying to get — I almost +hours trying to get-- I almost did it. I almost went over a -1576 +1596 00:59:05,592 --> 00:59:11,231 -PG-13 again — Ruby to work again +PG-13 again-- Ruby to work again on my computer. And it was -1577 +1597 00:59:11,231 --> 00:59:14,112 -really annoying and it, like, +really annoying, and it, like, killed my whole day, you know? -1578 +1598 00:59:14,411 --> 00:59:17,500 Anyway, I was complaining about -it at home, and was like, "Hey, +it at home and was like, "Hey, -1579 +1599 00:59:17,500 --> 00:59:19,000 I hate computers- -1580 +1600 00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:19,500 -Kirk: The first time -- +Kirk: The first time-- -1581 +1601 00:59:19,500 --> 00:59:21,000 Dan: -I don't like them." So ... you know? -1582 +1602 00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:22,961 Kirk: Well, the first time I learned Ruby, it was similar to -1583 +1603 00:59:23,021 --> 00:59:27,000 Bekah's situation. I was in a internship. And they were like, -1584 +1604 00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,500 -"Well, we can't -- any -- you +"Well, we can't-- any-- you can't get any developers to help -1585 +1605 00:59:29,500 --> 00:59:31,300 in this project. So you guys are gonna do it yourself." And we -1586 +1606 00:59:31,300 --> 00:59:34,000 were like, "Okay." "Any of you -know Ruby?" "No." +know Ruby?" "No." And then-- -1587 +1607 00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,572 -And then -- this was back in the -time they were like, "Here's the +this was back in the time. They +were like, "Here's the -1588 +1608 00:59:37,572 --> 00:59:41,382 instructions for how to install this on your machine. If you get -1589 +1609 00:59:41,382 --> 00:59:45,822 it wrong, you'll probably break -the machine. Good luck." So, +the machine. Good luck." So -1590 +1610 00:59:45,882 --> 00:59:49,500 -that's like [chuckles] what's -[inaudible] Ruby in, and it was +that's, like, [chuckles] what's +[inaudible] Ruby in and it was -1591 +1611 00:59:49,500 --> 00:59:53,000 super painful. And I didn't, like, look at a line of Ruby -1592 -00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:58,092 -again for like 10 years. So ... -you know? Onboarding matters. +1612 +00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,546 +again for, like, 10 years. So +... you know, onboarding -1593 +1613 +00:59:55,546 --> 00:59:58,092 +matters. + +1614 00:59:58,092 --> 01:00:02,700 -Dan: Yeah. No. That's -- it's +Dan: Yeah. No. That's-- it's, like, it doesn't matter. Every -1594 +1615 01:00:02,700 --> 01:00:03,500 time I have to do something -1595 +1616 01:00:03,500 --> 01:00:05,500 -with Ruby -- and I- I just do it +with Ruby-- and I- I just do it so infrequently that it's, you -1596 +1617 01:00:05,500 --> 01:00:08,000 know, that's why it's a problem -for me, obviously. But -- +for me, obviously. But-- -1597 +1618 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:11,681 Kirk: To be fair, I feel like I do Python stuff all the time -1598 +1619 01:00:11,681 --> 01:00:15,500 and I still mess it up, like, getting it to work on my -1599 +1620 01:00:15,500 --> 01:00:18,581 -machine. I'm just -- I just want +machine. I'm just-- I just want -1600 +1621 01:00:18,581 --> 01:00:23,000 things to work. I just wanna click work and then they work. -1601 +1622 01:00:23,500 --> 01:00:24,000 Dan: Yep. -1602 +1623 01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,382 Kirk: Specifically the installation and running part. -1603 +1624 01:00:26,382 --> 01:00:26,500 Bekah: Yes. -1604 +1625 01:00:26,700 --> 01:00:27,000 Dan: Yep. -1605 +1626 01:00:27,311 --> 01:00:28,302 Bekah: That's the worst. -1606 +1627 01:00:30,132 --> 01:00:33,731 Kirk: I got a tutorial, I'm like, "Oh, I'm gonna NPM, -1607 +1628 01:00:33,731 --> 01:00:38,981 install, do your thing. NPM did its thing. Do the thing, run, -1608 +1629 01:00:39,371 --> 01:00:43,061 didn't work. I Google the err- you know, it's bad when you -1609 +1630 01:00:43,061 --> 01:00:45,500 search for an error and it takes you to, like, the official -1610 +1631 01:00:45,500 --> 01:00:51,000 GitHub, like, issues unresolved page. Like, "Oh, no." -1611 +1632 01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:51,500 Bekah: Damn. -1612 +1633 01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:53,000 -Kirk: I can't escape [inaudible] --- +Kirk: I can't escape +[inaudible]-- -1613 +1634 01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,500 Dan: No, I was deep into that -yesterday. A bunch of M1s that +yesterday. A bunch of M1s -1614 +1635 01:00:56,500 --> 01:00:57,000 --- doesn't matter. +that-- doesn't matter. -1615 +1636 01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:57,300 Bekah: Yeah. -1616 +1637 01:00:57,300 --> 01:01:00,112 Dan: Anyway, computers are annoying. And I hate them. -1617 +1638 01:01:00,592 --> 01:01:03,000 Bekah: Also, I have to go. So -[laughs] -- +[laughs]-- -1618 +1639 01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,652 Dan: Ooh. You have to leave at -3? Not 3.30? Aah. +three? Not three thirty? Aah. -1619 +1640 01:01:06,652 --> 01:01:08,931 Kirk: I thought you were hanging -out for like a week. +out for, like, a week. -1620 +1641 01:01:09,500 --> 01:01:10,000 Dan: Oh, man. -1621 +1642 01:01:11,362 --> 01:01:12,500 Bekah: I have children. -1622 +1643 01:01:12,500 --> 01:01:13,500 Dan: Bekah needs to go. -1623 +1644 01:01:13,500 --> 01:01:16,500 Bekah: I have to go clean up the creek in my neighbourhood. -1624 +1645 01:01:16,500 --> 01:01:18,500 Dan: She needs to go clean up the creek. -1625 +1646 01:01:18,500 --> 01:01:20,000 Kirk: Do you smokey the bear? -1626 +1647 01:01:20,472 --> 01:01:23,500 -Bekah: [Chuckles] For earth day. -Week. Month. +Bekah: [Chuckles] For earth +day-- week-- month. -1627 +1648 01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:31,000 Dan: Kirk, I just wanna say happy Kirk Day to us all. -1628 +1649 01:01:31,722 --> 01:01:34,500 Bekah: We're glad to have you as our one and only Kirk- -1629 +1650 01:01:33,500 --> 01:01:35,952 Dan: Thank- thank you for joining us [chuckles]. -1630 +1651 01:01:35,952 --> 01:01:36,641 Bekah: -in the entire world. -1631 +1652 01:01:37,331 --> 01:01:37,700 Kirk: I am- -1632 +1653 01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:38,500 Dan: That too. -1633 +1654 01:01:38,500 --> 01:01:43,700 Kirk: -I'm happy to provide me as a catalyst for the cool -1634 +1655 01:01:43,700 --> 01:01:48,000 people here. Kirk Day is weird. But the people who like it are -1635 +1656 01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:52,452 great [all laugh]. We're kind of settled on this. -1636 +1657 01:01:53,700 --> 01:01:56,300 Dan: I'm glad you're around. We didn't plan any of this at all. -1637 +1658 01:01:56,300 --> 01:01:56,500 So- -1638 +1659 01:01:56,500 --> 01:01:57,000 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -1639 +1660 01:01:57,500 --> 01:01:58,700 Dan: -I appreciate you, you know? -1640 +1661 01:01:58,992 --> 01:02:00,822 Bekah: Dan was like, "We should -have an agenda." And I was like +have an agenda." And I was -1641 +1662 01:02:00,822 --> 01:02:02,862 --- +like-- -1642 +1663 01:02:02,862 --> 01:02:04,500 Dan: We did get a lot of stuff done today. -1643 +1664 01:02:04,500 --> 01:02:05,300 Bekah: We got a ton of stuff done. -1644 +1665 01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:05,700 -Dan: It was a- it was a good -- +Dan: It was a-- it was a good-- -1645 +1666 01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,282 Bekah: But most importantly, we saw Kirk on Kirk Day and -1646 +1667 01:02:09,282 --> 01:02:10,481 changed our profile pictures- -1647 +1668 01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:11,300 Dan: Indeed. -1648 +1669 01:02:11,300 --> 01:02:12,000 Bekah: -for Kirk. -1649 +1670 01:02:12,266 --> 01:02:15,500 Kirk: Nick Taylor's profile -picture is sideways. I don't -- +picture is sideways. I don't-- -1650 +1671 01:02:15,500 --> 01:02:20,000 Bekah: [Bekah and dan laugh] We noticed that. -1651 +1672 01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:21,447 Dan: That's awesome. -1652 +1673 01:02:21,447 --> 01:02:22,347 Bekah: It all makes sense. -1653 +1674 01:02:23,047 --> 01:02:26,000 Kirk: The Kirk has gone rogue. [Bekah laughs] We are a legion. -1654 +1675 01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,500 Bekah: [Laughs] Oh, my gosh. Well, that seems like a great -1655 +1676 01:02:29,500 --> 01:02:30,927 way to end. -1656 +1677 01:02:30,927 --> 01:02:33,000 Dan: Yep. That's a good one. Thank you everybody for hanging -1657 +1678 01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:36,000 -out, and happy Kirk Day, and -- +out, and happy Kirk Day, and-- -1658 +1679 01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:37,000 Bekah: We'll see you all Thursday. -1659 +1680 01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:37,700 Dan: See you Thursday. -1660 +1681 01:02:38,396 --> 01:02:41,300 Kirk: Don't- don't do another one. No more Kirk Days. From -1661 +1682 01:02:41,300 --> 01:02:41,500 Kirk. -1662 +1683 01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:43,300 Dan: See you next year at Kirk Day. -1663 +1684 01:02:43,300 --> 01:02:44,000 Bekah: We do what we want. -1664 +1685 01:02:43,500 --> 01:02:45,000 Kirk: [Inaudible] next year. The end. -1665 +1686 01:02:45,300 --> 01:02:46,000 Bekah: You gonna fire us [laughs]? -1666 +1687 01:02:46,700 --> 01:02:50,000 Kirk: Yeah. I'm gonna fire every single one of you. -1667 +1688 01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:51,000 Bekah: You said you wouldn't fire me. -1668 +1689 01:02:52,500 --> 01:02:55,000 Kirk: Yeah. But it's collective. It's fine. -1669 +1690 01:02:55,700 --> 01:02:56,000 Dan: Alright. -1670 +1691 01:02:56,300 --> 01:02:57,500 Kirk: Okay. Bye. -1671 +1692 01:03:01,206 --> 01:03:03,000 Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual -1672 +1693 01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:07,052 Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah -1673 +1694 01:03:07,052 --> 01:03:09,500 Hawrot Weigel. If you have questions or comments, you can -1674 +1695 01:03:09,500 --> 01:03:12,842 hit us up on Twitter at -VirtualCoffeeIO, or email us at +VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at -1675 +1696 01:03:12,842 --> 01:03:16,000 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up -1676 +1697 01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:17,175 for the newsletter, check out any of our other resources on -1677 +1698 01:03:17,175 --> 01:03:18,350 our -1678 +1699 01:03:18,351 --> 01:03:21,742 website, virtualcoffee.io. If you're interested in sponsoring -1679 +1700 01:03:21,742 --> 01:03:24,141 Virtual Coffee, you can find out more information on our website -1680 +1701 01:03:24,411 --> 01:03:28,851 at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. Please subscribe to our podcast -1681 +1702 01:03:28,882 --> 01:03:31,700 and be sure to leave us a review. Thanks for listening, -1682 +1703 01:03:31,700 --> 01:03:33,092 and we'll see you next week! \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/episodes/6_1.srt b/episodes/6_1.srt index b6b6a74..4f3f06f 100644 --- a/episodes/6_1.srt +++ b/episodes/6_1.srt @@ -5,8 +5,8 @@ welcome to Season 6, Episode 1 2 00:00:10,555 --> 00:00:13,105 -of the Virtual Coffee podcast. -I'm Bekah -- +of the Virtual Coffee Podcast. +I'm Bekah-- 3 00:00:15,875 --> 00:00:17,315 @@ -35,7 +35,7 @@ And 8 00:00:29,635 --> 00:00:32,045 they're here, on this podcast, -sharing their stories, and what +sharing their stories and what 9 00:00:32,045 --> 00:00:36,000 @@ -91,7 +91,7 @@ the only time I say, 'Wuddup, 20 00:00:58,670 --> 00:01:01,926 Bek,' [Bekah chuckles] either, -so, you know? How's it going? +so-- you know? How's it going? 21 00:01:02,706 --> 00:01:06,251 @@ -105,11 +105,11 @@ new season of the podcast. 23 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:15,000 Dan: Woohoo! [Dan and Bekah -chuckle] Yes, we are. It was +chuckle] Yes, we are. It was-- 24 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,921 --- Season 5 was pretty awesome. +Season 5 was pretty awesome. 25 00:01:18,100 --> 00:01:21,215 @@ -136,8 +136,8 @@ our podcast. 30 00:01:29,305 --> 00:01:35,141 -Dan: Yes. Agreed. So, yeah. So -we are starting Season 6 off +Dan: Yes. Agreed. So yeah. So we +are starting Season 6 off 31 00:01:35,350 --> 00:01:38,935 @@ -150,7 +150,7 @@ Alpert. David is 33 00:01:42,521 --> 00:01:47,021 -a director -- no, wait. What is +a director-- no, wait. What is he? I lost it. David is the 34 @@ -166,7 +166,7 @@ Virtual Coffee, and also on the 36 00:01:56,740 --> 00:01:59,380 podcast [chuckles]. Not the -first, won't be the last. And +first, won't be the last. And-- 37 00:01:59,380 --> 00:02:02,020 @@ -188,3725 +188,3726 @@ have continued on, for sure, beyond the hour. He has so much 41 -00:02:11,156 --> 00:02:16,165 -insight into — not just like the -technology field, but in working +00:02:11,156 --> 00:02:13,660 +insight into-- not just, like, +the technology field, but in 42 +00:02:13,660 --> 00:02:16,164 +working + +43 00:02:16,165 --> 00:02:21,116 -with other people. And he -- I +with other people. And he-- I really appreciated his -43 +44 00:02:21,116 --> 00:02:25,855 thoughtfulness in how he -approaches other people, and +approaches other people and -44 +45 00:02:25,855 --> 00:02:26,575 supporting them. -45 +46 00:02:27,806 --> 00:02:28,645 -Dan: Yeah. Absolutely. That, I +Dan: Yeah. Absolutely. That-- I mean, like, that- that's gotta -46 +47 00:02:28,645 --> 00:02:29,484 be one of -47 +48 00:02:29,485 --> 00:02:31,232 the first things I think of when -I- when I think of David is- is, +I-- when I think of David is- -48 +49 00:02:31,232 --> 00:02:32,979 -yeah. +is-- yeah, -49 +50 00:02:32,980 --> 00:02:38,020 -Thoughtfulness, and- and ... I -don't know. I, you know, like +thoughtfulness, and- and ... I +don't know. I-- you know, like, -50 +51 00:02:38,350 --> 00:02:40,375 thoughtful and- and empathetic -is- is -- what the -- he's one +is- is-- what the-- he's one -51 +52 00:02:40,375 --> 00:02:42,400 -of the, I mean, +of the-- I mean, -52 +53 00:02:42,401 --> 00:02:45,610 he's- he's always on Slack, and he's ... I- [chuckles] I dunno. -53 +54 00:02:45,610 --> 00:02:48,819 Like, -54 +55 00:02:48,820 --> 00:02:50,230 everybody loves him. He's always -so great to talk to. Anytime you +so great to talk to. Anytime -55 +56 00:02:50,230 --> 00:02:51,640 --- +you-- -56 +57 00:02:51,670 --> 00:02:53,711 anytime you're kinda working through something or have some -57 +58 00:02:54,341 --> 00:02:55,000 existential crisis [chuckles]- -58 +59 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:55,000 Bekah: Yeah. -59 +60 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,000 Dan: -I feel like David's one of -those- one of those people +those-- one of those people -60 +61 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:01,841 that will show up and ... you know, act- like, actually -61 +62 00:03:01,841 --> 00:03:04,211 have constructive ways to maybe work through some- some hard -62 +63 00:03:04,211 --> 00:03:06,312 problems and stuff. It's- it's -really- it's really nice having +really-- it's really nice having -63 +64 00:03:06,312 --> 00:03:06,973 him around. -64 +65 00:03:07,631 --> 00:03:11,950 -Bekah: Yeah. And- and the -- -that empathy that he brings to +Bekah: Yeah. And- and the-- that +empathy that he brings to -65 +66 00:03:11,950 --> 00:03:19,181 the situation is really ... authentic and true, you know? -66 +67 00:03:19,181 --> 00:03:22,121 Somebody might check in and see -how you're doing, but, you know, +how you're doing but, you know, -67 +68 00:03:22,126 --> 00:03:25,781 if you get a message from David, he means that. And I think that -68 +69 00:03:25,781 --> 00:03:29,381 goes a long way to supporting people, and helping them feel -69 +70 00:03:29,381 --> 00:03:34,000 comfortable, and allowing them to, you know, grow and- and -70 +71 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:35,651 learn in those ways, and support them. -71 +72 00:03:36,377 --> 00:03:44,027 Dan: Absolutely. Okay. What is our random question? How do -72 +73 00:03:44,027 --> 00:03:45,000 we start the episode [chuckles]? Bekah, how are we -73 +74 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:46,907 gonna start this episode [chuckles]? -74 +75 00:03:48,872 --> 00:03:49,473 -Bekah: [Chuckles] Well ... well --- +Bekah: [Chuckles] Well ... +well-- -75 +76 00:03:50,992 --> 00:03:51,203 Dan: [Laughs] I don't know. -76 +77 00:03:54,336 --> 00:03:58,447 Bekah: Why don't- why don't we, in the first episode, intro -77 +78 00:03:58,447 --> 00:03:59,796 talk about the other guests too? -78 +79 00:04:01,401 --> 00:04:05,000 Dan: Oh, totally. Yeah. [Bekah and Dan chuckle] I don't -79 +80 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,149 know. I haven't done this for a while. -80 +81 00:04:07,149 --> 00:04:10,209 Bekah: We're excited about this -episode, and the rest of the +episode and the rest of the -81 +82 00:04:10,209 --> 00:04:16,418 season. So, we're also going to be talking to ... Bogdan about -82 +83 00:04:16,418 --> 00:04:19,959 navigating tech career paths. We have quite a bit of career path -83 +84 00:04:20,259 --> 00:04:23,649 episodes this season. So, we're gonna be learning about what it -84 +85 00:04:23,649 --> 00:04:28,872 means to be a demo engineer, a developer educator, we're gonna -85 +86 00:04:28,872 --> 00:04:30,762 be talking through interviews, and open source contributions. -86 +87 00:04:30,762 --> 00:04:32,652 -So, I +So I -87 +88 00:04:32,653 --> 00:04:36,327 think this is a pretty well rounded season to ... I don't -88 +89 00:04:36,327 --> 00:04:40,001 know ... -89 +90 00:04:40,483 --> 00:04:42,000 get you excited about all things. -90 +91 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:44,000 Dan: Yeah. I'm excited about all things. -91 +92 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,973 Bekah: Am I spinning chair? I've got a spinny chair this season. -92 +93 00:04:46,077 --> 00:04:48,838 -Dan: You have -- yes. Bekah got -a spinny chair and she has not +Dan: You have-- yes. Bekah got a +spinny chair and she has not -93 +94 00:04:48,838 --> 00:04:50,127 stopped spinning since she got it [chuckles]. -94 +95 00:04:50,293 --> 00:04:52,632 Bekah: It is the best thing. I just continue to spin. -95 +96 00:04:52,858 --> 00:04:56,788 -Dan: Yeah. Yeah. It's- it's -- +Dan: Yeah. Yeah. It's- it's-- well, it is what it is. I feel -96 +97 00:04:56,788 --> 00:05:00,387 like you're doing a good job of, like, rotating around your -97 +98 00:05:00,387 --> 00:05:01,722 microphone and staying in a good -speaking position though. Though +speaking position though. -98 +99 00:05:01,722 --> 00:05:03,057 --- +Though-- -99 +100 00:05:03,208 --> 00:05:04,047 Bekah: Yeah. I'm trying to keep my head straight on the -100 +101 00:05:04,047 --> 00:05:04,886 microphone. See- -101 +102 00:05:04,918 --> 00:05:05,908 Dan: So, well done. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. -102 +103 00:05:05,908 --> 00:05:07,827 Bekah: -my body turns, but my head ... do- does minimal -103 +104 00:05:07,827 --> 00:05:09,746 turning. -104 +105 00:05:10,317 --> 00:05:12,958 -Dan: Yeah. No. It's -- you- +Dan: Yeah. No. It's-- you-- you're doing a good job. -105 +106 00:05:13,317 --> 00:05:19,192 Bekah: Thanks. That's all I needed to hear today. But we are -106 +107 00:05:19,192 --> 00:05:23,182 going to start this episode of the podcast like we start every -107 +108 00:05:23,182 --> 00:05:27,141 episode of the podcast and every Virtual Coffee. Say our name, -108 +109 00:05:27,172 --> 00:05:30,831 where we're from, what we do, and answer a random check-in -109 +110 00:05:30,831 --> 00:05:34,281 question. So we hope you enjoyed this episode and the rest of -110 +111 00:05:34,281 --> 00:05:39,663 Season 6. Today's random check-in question is, if you -111 +112 00:05:39,663 --> 00:05:45,045 could -112 +113 00:05:45,045 --> 00:05:50,055 magically become fluent in any language, what would it be? My -113 +114 00:05:50,055 --> 00:05:55,005 name is Bekah. I am a technical community builder from a small -114 +115 00:05:55,011 --> 00:05:59,763 town in Ohio, and ... I think I would go with Polish, only -115 +116 00:05:59,763 --> 00:06:04,515 because I'm -116 +117 00:06:04,516 --> 00:06:07,343 mostly Polish and I would like to know more of it. It's -117 +118 00:06:07,343 --> 00:06:10,170 definitely not -118 +119 00:06:10,170 --> 00:06:13,831 the most practical, but it's probably the most meaningful. -119 +120 00:06:14,750 --> 00:06:15,709 Dan: All right, Polish. -120 +121 00:06:16,579 --> 00:06:18,949 -Bekah: Yes. See, that was the +Bekah: Yes. See? That was the most straightforward- -121 +122 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:18,500 Dan: [Laughs] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I know, I know [chuckles]. I -122 +123 00:06:18,500 --> 00:06:20,000 -don't -- +don't-- -123 +124 00:06:18,949 --> 00:06:19,750 Bekah: -I've ever been in an intro. -124 +125 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:25,910 Dan: Yeah. Okay. Hi, I'm Dan. I do web development things -125 +126 00:06:26,029 --> 00:06:32,420 -in Cleveland. And, yeah. I don't -know. Languages are hard. +in Cleveland. And-- yeah. I +don't know. Languages are hard. -126 +127 00:06:32,750 --> 00:06:34,310 -I -- this is an attractive -question to me because I- I'm +I-- this is an attractive +question to me because I-- I'm -127 +128 00:06:34,310 --> 00:06:35,870 bad -128 -00:06:35,870 --> 00:06:38,300 +129 +00:06:35,870 --> 00:06:37,085 at, like, learning languages. I -took like three years of German, +took, like, three years of -129 +130 +00:06:37,085 --> 00:06:38,300 +German, + +131 00:06:38,300 --> 00:06:41,000 and, like, I struggled with Spanish in college, and I -130 +132 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:42,139 -don't -- I took three +don't-- I took three -131 +133 00:06:42,199 --> 00:06:43,804 years of German. I don't know. I can still count to 10, I think. -132 +134 00:06:43,804 --> 00:06:45,409 But, -133 +135 00:06:45,500 --> 00:06:47,600 -you know, Spanish would be -- I -think- I think I'm gonna choose +you know, Spanish would be-- I +think-- I think I'm gonna choose -134 +136 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:52,100 Spanish. I, you know, it just, -it -- I- I like going to +it-- I- I like going to -135 +137 00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:54,000 Mexican restaurants [chuckles]. -I like, you know, and there- +I like, you know-- and there- -136 +138 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,310 there's a lot of Spanish -137 +139 00:06:55,310 --> 00:06:59,269 speaking people, you know, in -America, and, although +America. And although -138 +140 00:06:59,329 --> 00:07:01,204 Japanese would be cool too. I- I love, like, listening to -139 +141 00:07:01,204 --> 00:07:03,079 Japanese, -140 -00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:05,164 -you know? People speaking -Japanese. I like -- I just like - -141 -00:07:05,164 --> 00:07:06,768 -the - 142 +00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,768 +you know, people speaking +Japanese. I like-- I just like + +143 00:07:06,769 --> 00:07:08,239 -way it sounds. So, that'd be +the way it sounds. So, that'd be cool too. And- and it's so -143 +144 00:07:08,239 --> 00:07:09,709 different -144 +145 00:07:09,709 --> 00:07:12,319 than English that, you know, -that's one -- that's really hard +that's one-- that's really hard -145 +146 00:07:12,379 --> 00:07:14,149 for me to wrap my head around ever ... being able to speak -146 +147 00:07:14,149 --> 00:07:15,919 [chuckles]. So -147 +148 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,470 I'm- I'm kind of tied 50-50, Spanish and Japanese. That's -148 +149 00:07:18,470 --> 00:07:19,069 gonna be my answer. -149 +150 00:07:20,865 --> 00:07:22,770 David Alpert: Well, since Dan said to you, I'm gonna say to -150 +151 00:07:22,770 --> 00:07:24,675 you. My -151 +152 00:07:24,675 --> 00:07:29,415 name is David Alpert. And I'm- I'm a software developer and -152 +153 00:07:29,444 --> 00:07:36,019 DevOps engineer in Winnipeg, Manitoba. And I was having a -153 +154 00:07:36,019 --> 00:07:39,000 hard time picking just one. So since Dan set the example- -154 +155 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,000 Dan: Yeah. -155 +156 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,000 David: -my first thought was Indonesian. Because I spent -156 +157 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:43,189 some time in Indonesia and -157 +158 00:07:43,194 --> 00:07:45,486 I remember just enough Indonesian to say some things to -158 +159 00:07:45,486 --> 00:07:47,778 Ayu, for -159 +160 00:07:47,779 --> 00:07:49,669 example, in our community. But -I'm no -- by no means, fluent. +I'm no-- by no means, fluent. -160 +161 00:07:49,669 --> 00:07:51,559 And it -161 +162 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,910 would just be so much fun to be -fluent a-again, or more, in +fluent a-again or more in -162 +163 00:07:55,910 --> 00:08:00,064 Indonesian. But then, Bekah, when you mentioned Polish, I- I -163 +164 00:08:00,064 --> 00:08:01,624 thought Hebrew because that would connect me with some of my -164 +165 00:08:01,624 --> 00:08:03,184 family -165 +166 00:08:03,334 --> 00:08:06,904 -and some of my tradition, so -- +and some of my tradition, so-- that I've drifted a little -166 +167 00:08:06,904 --> 00:08:09,125 bit from. So, Hebrew and Indonesian. -167 +168 00:08:10,024 --> 00:08:10,415 Dan: I like it. -168 +169 00:08:10,685 --> 00:08:10,774 David: I will go there. -169 +170 00:08:11,060 --> 00:08:15,709 Bekah: Yeah. Thanks, David. Normally, I- I ask our guests to -170 +171 00:08:15,709 --> 00:08:17,119 choose one thing, and then I choose four or five. So -171 +172 00:08:17,119 --> 00:08:18,529 -[chuckles] -- +[chuckles]-- -172 +173 00:08:19,894 --> 00:08:21,175 David: So we turned the tables today. -173 +174 00:08:22,579 --> 00:08:23,959 Bekah: Yeah. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for -174 +175 00:08:23,959 --> 00:08:25,339 being -175 +176 00:08:25,339 --> 00:08:29,779 here with us today. We always like to start with the origin -176 +177 00:08:29,779 --> 00:08:33,649 story of our guests. So tell us a little bit about your origin -177 +178 00:08:33,649 --> 00:08:35,840 -story, and how that brought you +story and how that brought you to where you are today. -178 +179 00:08:38,660 --> 00:08:40,715 David: Well, I was thinking about this question. I love that -179 +180 00:08:40,715 --> 00:08:42,770 you start -180 +181 00:08:42,770 --> 00:08:45,275 with the origin story, and the way you frame it as origin. I -181 +182 00:08:45,275 --> 00:08:47,780 can -182 +183 00:08:48,250 --> 00:08:53,030 remember using the Logo computer language to make the little -183 +184 00:08:53,030 --> 00:08:53,030 turtle- -184 +185 00:08:53,030 --> 00:08:55,000 Dan: Yes. Yes. -185 +186 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,000 David: -draw back and forth. I don't remember a lot about -186 +187 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:02,181 it, but I remember being really excited when I discovered loops. -187 +188 00:09:02,451 --> 00:09:04,431 And I didn't even know they were -called loops, but I could draw +called loops but I could draw -188 +189 00:09:04,436 --> 00:09:09,816 flowers with not very much ... code. So that was pretty -189 +190 00:09:09,816 --> 00:09:12,590 exciting. And then I went to, you know, high school, and grew -190 +191 00:09:12,590 --> 00:09:15,364 up, and -191 +192 00:09:15,666 --> 00:09:19,775 lots of things happened. I went to university and took a -192 +193 00:09:19,775 --> 00:09:22,775 computer science degree. I wound up taking a computer science -193 +194 00:09:22,775 --> 00:09:26,736 degree. And that taught me a lot of fundamentals about -194 +195 00:09:26,741 --> 00:09:30,905 computer architecture, saying, like, hardware architecture. -195 +196 00:09:30,905 --> 00:09:33,456 There was a computer engineering course in there too. And also -196 +197 00:09:33,456 --> 00:09:38,166 basics of data structures and algorithms. So I feel like I got -197 +198 00:09:38,166 --> 00:09:40,775 -a leg up on that, before there +a leg up on that before there was any of the ... now all the -198 +199 00:09:40,775 --> 00:09:43,384 code -199 +200 00:09:43,390 --> 00:09:45,755 camps and everything, the freeCodeCamps, and the Flatiron -200 +201 00:09:45,755 --> 00:09:47,120 School, and everything that I hear about, all the resources -201 +202 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:48,485 that are -202 +203 00:09:48,485 --> 00:09:51,020 available today. I didn't have -those back -- at that time, so +those back-- at that time, so-- -203 +204 00:09:51,020 --> 00:09:53,555 --- but +but -204 +205 00:09:53,586 --> 00:09:55,100 I was fortunate enough to be able to go to this university -205 +206 00:09:55,100 --> 00:09:56,614 program. -206 +207 00:09:56,765 --> 00:09:59,765 And I studied not only computer science, but also it was kind of -207 +208 00:09:59,765 --> 00:10:01,595 a liberal arts-y program. And I got exposed to all sorts of -208 +209 00:10:01,595 --> 00:10:03,425 other -209 +210 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,591 things that were not technical in the world. And I got very -210 +211 00:10:06,591 --> 00:10:08,961 distracted, and I didn't want anything to do with technology, -211 +212 00:10:08,961 --> 00:10:10,790 and I wanted to go find something more meaningful to do. -212 +213 00:10:10,790 --> 00:10:12,619 So I went -213 +214 00:10:12,625 --> 00:10:14,990 and I traveled. And that's when I wound up in Indonesia with an -214 +215 00:10:14,990 --> 00:10:18,711 exchange program, with ... Canadian Crossroads -215 +216 00:10:18,711 --> 00:10:22,341 -International — a cultural +International—a cultural exchange program, designed to -216 +217 00:10:22,971 --> 00:10:25,805 expose people to different cultures. And ... as I was -217 +218 00:10:25,805 --> 00:10:28,639 proceeding -218 +219 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,363 with my life, I noticed a common thread that ... I would -219 +220 00:10:31,363 --> 00:10:34,086 constantly notice -220 +221 00:10:34,086 --> 00:10:36,141 that people around me, that I -cared about — friends, family — +cared about— friends, -221 +222 00:10:36,141 --> 00:10:38,196 -would +family—would -222 +223 00:10:38,196 --> 00:10:43,145 be stressed or unhappy with technology. And they would be -223 +224 00:10:43,145 --> 00:10:44,750 frustrated, and they would start to internalize it. Like, "Oh, -224 +225 00:10:44,750 --> 00:10:46,355 I'm -225 +226 00:10:46,355 --> 00:10:47,840 not good at this." Or, "I must not be very smart because I -226 +227 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:49,325 can't -227 +228 00:10:49,326 --> 00:10:51,215 figure this out." And I would look at what they were -228 +229 00:10:51,215 --> 00:10:53,104 struggling -229 +230 00:10:53,105 --> 00:10:55,595 with, and I was frustrated. I got frustrated because it wa- I -230 +231 00:10:55,595 --> 00:10:58,085 knew -231 +232 00:10:58,091 --> 00:11:00,000 enough about technology to know that it didn't have to -232 +233 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,691 be that way. And that -233 +234 00:11:02,691 --> 00:11:06,980 what my friends and family were struggling with was ... design -234 +235 00:11:06,980 --> 00:11:09,770 decisions that somebody had made that hadn't really thought about -235 +236 00:11:10,041 --> 00:11:13,370 how they would land on a real person. And that's really what -236 +237 00:11:13,370 --> 00:11:17,961 prompted me to get back into technology. And from there, -237 +238 00:11:17,966 --> 00:11:21,051 I've done a number of technology -jobs -- technology related jobs, +jobs-- technology related jobs, -238 +239 00:11:21,081 --> 00:11:23,511 -web, front-end — now we would +web-- front-end-- now we would call it front-end development. -239 +240 00:11:23,511 --> 00:11:25,941 At -240 +241 00:11:25,941 --> 00:11:29,750 the time I was starting to learn about front-end engineering, and -241 +242 00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:31,895 that was back when ... I remember before Firebug was -242 +243 00:11:31,895 --> 00:11:34,040 introduced, -243 +244 00:11:34,041 --> 00:11:36,591 -like back before Chrome dev +like, back before Chrome dev tools. And then Firebug was a -244 +245 00:11:36,591 --> 00:11:40,100 really big deal. jQuery and Firebug changed the way we did -245 +246 00:11:40,105 --> 00:11:42,110 -web development, back then. +web development back then. -246 +247 00:11:42,380 --> 00:11:42,910 Dan: Yeah. Yeah, it did. -247 +248 00:11:43,341 --> 00:11:45,995 -David: And now -- well, from- +David: And now-- well, from- from there, I got tired of -248 +249 00:11:45,995 --> 00:11:48,649 front-end, -249 +250 00:11:48,650 --> 00:11:50,571 then I got interested in backend. So I went and did -250 +251 00:11:50,571 --> 00:11:53,211 backend. I did a lot of C#. I did years and years of C#. -251 +252 00:11:54,275 --> 00:11:57,426 -In fact, I found, recently, a +In fact, I found recently a commit somewhere in GitHub from -252 +253 00:11:57,426 --> 00:12:00,785 16 years ago that I did in C#. I've been writing code -253 +254 00:12:00,785 --> 00:12:01,446 for a long time. -254 +255 00:12:03,426 --> 00:12:06,846 And from there, I went to various software developer jobs -255 +256 00:12:06,846 --> 00:12:10,655 and took some project management training, got involved in the -256 +257 00:12:10,655 --> 00:12:17,436 local Winnipeg agile community, and found my way into builds and -257 +258 00:12:17,436 --> 00:12:22,296 deploys. And that's what got me into DevOps. And now, here I am. -258 +259 00:12:24,620 --> 00:12:25,000 Dan: That's awesome. -259 +260 00:12:24,620 --> 00:12:28,071 -Bekah: That's -- I was gonna say -great, but -- +Bekah: That's-- I was gonna say +great, but-- -260 +261 00:12:28,191 --> 00:12:29,000 -Dan: That- that -- oh, it's +Dan: That- that-- oh, it's great. It is great, also. It's -261 +262 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,120 great and awesome. -262 +263 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,000 -No, that- that's a cool ... -that's -- I- I love having +No, that-- that's a cool ... +that's-- I- I love having -263 +264 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,230 people on ... I mean, I -264 +265 00:12:36,230 --> 00:12:38,000 love having [chuckles] all of our guest. It's- it's always -265 +266 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:39,051 fun for- for me having -266 +267 00:12:39,051 --> 00:12:41,961 -people on, who started like when -you started, when I, you +people on, who started, like, +when you started, when I-- you -267 +268 00:12:41,966 --> 00:12:43,223 -know, back a long time ago. I- I --- Logo, I hadn't thought about +know, back a long time ago. I- +I-- Logo, I hadn't thought about -268 +269 00:12:43,223 --> 00:12:44,480 for a -269 +270 00:12:44,485 --> 00:12:47,061 long time. I- I definitely did Logo in, like, the computer lab -270 +271 00:12:47,061 --> 00:12:51,681 -in- in middle school. What I was --- I had a question for you. +in- in middle school. What I +was-- I had a question for you. -271 +272 00:12:51,681 --> 00:12:54,350 What was it? Oh, it was ... -okay. So you mentioned like, +okay. So you mentioned, like, -272 +273 00:12:54,350 --> 00:12:57,441 red- like, learning fundamentals and learning computer science -273 +274 00:12:57,441 --> 00:12:59,345 stuff, sort of maybe a ... I -don't know what the -- hard +don't know what the-- hard -274 +275 00:12:59,345 --> 00:13:01,249 computer -275 +276 00:13:01,250 --> 00:13:04,000 science [chuckles] ... I dunno what a good term is for -276 +277 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:04,880 it. But, you know, -277 +278 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:06,530 -this -- the kind of stuff that, +this-- the kind of stuff that-- at least back in the day you -278 +279 00:13:06,530 --> 00:13:08,180 learned -279 +280 00:13:08,181 --> 00:13:12,110 in computer science courses in college, right, versus -280 +281 00:13:12,171 --> 00:13:16,025 -today, where there's so many +today where there's so many different, like, places to go. -281 +282 00:13:16,025 --> 00:13:19,025 So many different ways to learn, so many different approaches to -282 +283 00:13:19,025 --> 00:13:22,446 learning, even. And I guess the thought that I had was, -283 +284 00:13:22,505 --> 00:13:26,225 what do you think, like, can you imagine trying to learn from -284 +285 00:13:26,230 --> 00:13:31,250 -scratch now, and would you want +scratch now and would you want to? If you were starting over -285 +286 00:13:31,250 --> 00:13:32,660 right now [chuckles], right? But you have all the stuff -286 +287 00:13:32,660 --> 00:13:34,070 available. Would -287 +288 00:13:34,071 --> 00:13:36,035 you rather go that fundamentals level and learning stuff, -288 +289 00:13:36,035 --> 00:13:37,999 probably -289 +290 00:13:38,005 --> 00:13:39,668 in languages that you're never going to use in, you know, in- -290 +291 00:13:39,668 --> 00:13:41,331 in -291 +292 00:13:41,331 --> 00:13:42,816 practical levels, but you're getting all the fundamental -292 +293 00:13:42,816 --> 00:13:44,301 stuff? -293 +294 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,000 Or would you, like, there's -bootstrap- bootstrap -- no. +bootstrap- bootstrap-- no. -294 +295 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:49,400 Boot-camps [chuckles]. Sorry. -295 +296 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,931 Bootcamps, a-a-and everything like that, that will put you -296 +297 00:13:53,931 --> 00:13:56,870 more in a practical place to- to get, you know, where- where -297 +298 00:13:56,870 --> 00:13:57,950 you're learning some JavaScripts, and learning React, -298 +299 00:13:57,950 --> 00:13:59,030 and stuff like -299 +300 00:13:59,030 --> 00:14:01,400 that, even before you ... know ... maybe some of the more -300 +301 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,770 esoteric -301 +302 00:14:03,801 --> 00:14:05,405 pieces of computer science, you know? And so, this is not a -302 +303 00:14:05,405 --> 00:14:07,009 judge- -303 +304 00:14:07,221 --> 00:14:08,256 -like, I'm not asking you to +like, I'm not asking you to, like, place judgment on -304 +305 00:14:08,256 --> 00:14:09,291 -anything, but +anything but -305 +306 00:14:09,291 --> 00:14:10,371 just, like, from a personal- personal standpoint. Like, -306 +307 00:14:10,371 --> 00:14:11,451 where- where- -307 +308 00:14:11,780 --> 00:14:12,995 -where do you -- like, where -would you land? Like, where +where do you-- like, where would +you land? Like, where -308 +309 00:14:12,995 --> 00:14:14,210 would you -309 +310 00:14:14,270 --> 00:14:18,230 personally rather ... start, if you could start- [chuckles] -310 +311 00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:19,370 if you could start from scratch, you know, now? -311 +312 00:14:19,716 --> 00:14:21,995 David: This is a really good question, Dan. And it's come -312 +313 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,426 up a number of times in Virtual -Coffee, because we have a number +Coffee because we have a number -313 +314 00:14:24,426 --> 00:14:26,390 of people who are career changers or- or early career -314 +315 00:14:26,390 --> 00:14:28,354 people in -315 +316 00:14:28,355 --> 00:14:29,840 -the- in the community. And +the-- in the community. And they're constantly wondering, -316 +317 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,325 "What -317 +318 00:14:31,326 --> 00:14:32,000 do I do next?" and "What do I look?" -318 +319 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,000 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. -319 +320 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,000 David: The way you phrased it though, for me, if I were to -320 +321 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,556 -start now ... I- I -- one of the +start now ... I- I-- one of the things I -321 +322 00:14:41,556 --> 00:14:43,775 notice about the technical -landscape today, compared to +landscape today—compared to -322 +323 00:14:43,775 --> 00:14:45,994 when -323 +324 00:14:45,995 --> 00:14:50,916 -I started, is it seems to have +I started—is it seems to have exploded in technologies, and -324 +325 00:14:51,125 --> 00:14:55,505 frameworks, and libraries, and possibilities. And I think it -325 +326 00:14:55,510 --> 00:14:58,000 -would -- I would lean towards +would-- I would lean towards practical first. -326 +327 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:58,000 Dan: Mm-hmm. -327 +328 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:03,000 David: Because I think that would help me learn enough -328 +329 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,801 about one thing to start to work. -329 +330 00:15:06,831 --> 00:15:11,211 -And really, once you get into -- +And really, once you get into-- once you cross that difficult -330 +331 00:15:11,211 --> 00:15:14,331 barrier of finding your first job in technology, then you can -331 +332 00:15:14,331 --> 00:15:15,000 get paid to learn- -332 +333 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,000 Dan: Absolutely. Yeah. -333 +334 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,780 David: -as you work. And- and then you can ... I don't know, -334 +335 00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:26,105 maybe ... I think it would be worthwhile to take some survey -335 +336 00:15:26,105 --> 00:15:30,035 course of the fundamentals, some high level survey course so that -336 +337 00:15:30,035 --> 00:15:32,165 -you introduce the -- or you- +you introduce the-- or you-- you're introduced to the words -337 +338 00:15:32,165 --> 00:15:34,295 and -338 +339 00:15:34,296 --> 00:15:38,706 phrases, because I find that the computer science degree helps me -339 +340 00:15:38,706 --> 00:15:42,066 in two ways. One, that having those fundamentals often helps -340 +341 00:15:42,066 --> 00:15:45,605 me understand new frameworks. Cuz I kinda understand how -341 +342 00:15:45,605 --> 00:15:47,990 computers work underneath, and all of the languages and -342 +343 00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:50,375 frameworks. -343 +344 00:15:50,375 --> 00:15:53,255 So learning any particular practical framework gets, I -344 +345 00:15:53,255 --> 00:15:55,115 think, easier with that fundamental background. -345 +346 00:15:56,046 --> 00:15:56,436 Dan: Yeah. -346 +347 00:15:56,495 --> 00:15:58,000 David: But I don't think it's required to learn how to work -347 +348 00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,735 in any of those -348 +349 00:15:59,735 --> 00:16:02,885 things. I just think that it helps me. The other place I -349 +350 00:16:02,885 --> 00:16:06,186 notice is that it helps me in searching for things when I go -350 +351 00:16:06,186 --> 00:16:10,686 to Google, sometimes. The terms and the phrases, I think. I'm -351 +352 00:16:10,686 --> 00:16:14,586 drawing from that training back then. So, that's where I think -352 +353 00:16:14,586 --> 00:16:16,235 maybe a survey course ... without having to go deep in all -353 +354 00:16:16,235 --> 00:16:17,884 those -354 +355 00:16:17,885 --> 00:16:19,340 -things, because you -- I only +things, because you-- I only remember the things that I use. -355 +356 00:16:19,340 --> 00:16:20,795 And- -356 +357 00:16:20,796 --> 00:16:21,365 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. -357 +358 00:16:21,365 --> 00:16:21,682 -David: -we joke -- I mean, we +David: -we joke-- I mean, we work in- in DevOps where caching -358 +359 00:16:21,682 --> 00:16:21,999 is a -359 +360 00:16:26,946 --> 00:16:30,426 thing. You know, one of the- the two hard problems in computer -360 +361 00:16:30,426 --> 00:16:34,000 science [Bekah and Dan chuckle], right? And we joke about, -361 +362 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,975 -'My memory only holds +"My memory only holds -362 +363 00:16:35,975 --> 00:16:37,970 -so much,' and, 'I expire things +so much," and, "I expire things for my mental cache when I go -363 +364 00:16:37,970 --> 00:16:39,965 and- -364 +365 00:16:39,966 --> 00:16:40,000 Dan: [Chuckles] Yeah, absolutely. -365 +366 00:16:39,966 --> 00:16:41,660 -David: -learn something new.' +David: -learn something new." You know, you ask me a question -366 +367 00:16:41,660 --> 00:16:43,354 about -367 +368 00:16:43,355 --> 00:16:44,630 something that I supposedly -studied, and, 'I have a cache +studied, and, "I have a cache -368 +369 00:16:44,630 --> 00:16:45,905 miss, -369 +370 00:16:45,905 --> 00:16:48,000 -and I have to go look it up.' +and I have to go look it up." [Dan laughs] But I do find -370 +371 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,355 that things that I have -371 +372 00:16:49,355 --> 00:16:52,000 learned and then purged, often come back easier- -372 +373 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:52,000 Dan: Yeah. -373 +374 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:52,000 Bekah: Mm. -374 +375 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,000 David: -or more easily. So- -375 +376 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,000 Dan: Yeah. -376 +377 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,000 David: -that's a long winded way of to say- -377 +378 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:57,000 Dan: Yeah! -378 +379 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,000 David: -I would start practical, today, because there's so many -379 +380 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,326 ... widespread things. I think it -380 +381 00:17:01,326 --> 00:17:04,476 would take a long time to go from fundamentals to something -381 +382 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,000 practical, today. But- -382 +383 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:06,000 Dan: Mm-hmm. -383 +384 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,931 David: -I think if you start today with something -384 +385 00:17:07,931 --> 00:17:10,013 practical, you could add- but, -maybe, just a quick survey of -- +maybe, just a quick survey of-- -385 +386 00:17:10,013 --> 00:17:12,095 you don't -386 +387 00:17:12,096 --> 00:17:13,475 need to kn- understand all the data structures and algorithms. -387 +388 00:17:13,475 --> 00:17:14,854 -But +But, -388 +389 00:17:14,855 --> 00:17:19,925 like, if you can name three of -them, cuz you know they exist, +them cuz you know they exist, -389 +390 00:17:19,986 --> 00:17:22,536 then you can search up implementations of them or -390 +391 00:17:22,536 --> 00:17:23,945 -details about them, when you -need them. +details about them when you need +them. -391 +392 00:17:24,411 --> 00:17:24,681 Dan: Yeah. -392 +393 00:17:24,681 --> 00:17:25,191 Bekah: Good idea. -393 +394 00:17:25,671 --> 00:17:28,010 -Dan: Oh, I think that -- I love -that answer. I, you know, and I +Dan: Oh, I think that-- I love +that answer. I, you know-- and I -394 +395 00:17:28,016 --> 00:17:29,423 think I tend to agree with you. I per- I mean, also personally, -395 +396 00:17:29,423 --> 00:17:30,830 I- -396 +397 00:17:30,921 --> 00:17:36,050 I ... got interested in computer -development stuff because of the - -397 -00:17:36,681 --> 00:17:39,770 --- like Logo, you know, seeing -something happen right away, you +development stuff because of 398 +00:17:36,681 --> 00:17:38,225 +the-- like Logo, you know, +seeing something happen right + +399 +00:17:38,225 --> 00:17:39,769 +away, you + +400 00:17:39,770 --> 00:17:41,000 know [chuckles]? Like, hitting -save, and then like looking at +save, and then, like, looking at -399 +401 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,050 it, and, you -400 -00:17:42,050 --> 00:17:45,921 -know, whatever. And so-sometimes --- or- or writing code on a +402 +00:17:42,050 --> 00:17:43,985 +know, whatever. And +so-sometimes-- or- or writing -401 +403 +00:17:43,985 --> 00:17:45,920 +code on a + +404 00:17:45,921 --> 00:17:47,975 chalkboard and stuff like that -is like ... was -- I drifted +is like ... was-- I drifted -402 +405 00:17:47,975 --> 00:17:50,029 away from -403 +406 00:17:50,030 --> 00:17:54,411 it in college because ... I was computer science major to -404 +407 00:17:54,411 --> 00:17:55,926 start as well. And, you know, it- it just got less and less- -405 +408 00:17:55,926 --> 00:17:57,441 [chuckles] less -406 +409 00:17:57,441 --> 00:17:59,076 -and less like, fun, you know? I +and less, like, fun, you know? I dunno. But you're right. Like -407 +410 00:17:59,076 --> 00:18:00,711 -the -- +the-- -408 +411 00:18:00,980 --> 00:18:03,995 knowing the ... like, for instance, the Big-O notation, -409 +412 00:18:03,995 --> 00:18:07,010 right? -410 +413 00:18:07,010 --> 00:18:10,000 -Like, analyzing ho-how a -- +Like, analyzing ho-how a-- ho-how long a function takes -411 +414 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:10,851 to do a thing, you -412 +415 00:18:10,851 --> 00:18:13,760 know? I don't think anybody that's writing React code for -413 +416 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,050 their job needs to know the -names of all the different -- +names of all the different-- -414 +417 00:18:15,050 --> 00:18:16,340 you know? -415 +418 00:18:16,340 --> 00:18:20,000 Or even ... [chuckles] like, -they don't need to know the -- +they don't need to know the-- -416 +419 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,651 even the phrase 'Big-O', -417 +420 00:18:21,655 --> 00:18:23,663 right? But knowing that will help you- will help you sort of -418 +421 00:18:23,663 --> 00:18:25,671 think -419 +422 00:18:25,671 --> 00:18:27,681 -through and go -- like- like, +through and go-- like- like, having that in your brain would -420 +423 00:18:27,681 --> 00:18:29,691 ... -421 +424 00:18:30,020 --> 00:18:31,850 in the background, and it's okay if it's expired cache -422 +425 00:18:31,850 --> 00:18:33,680 -[chuckles], but +[chuckles] but -423 -00:18:33,681 --> 00:18:35,990 -you'll still like, see something -and start like -- it's like code +426 +00:18:33,681 --> 00:18:34,835 +you'll still, like, see +something and start, like-- it's -424 +427 +00:18:34,835 --> 00:18:35,989 +like code + +428 00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:36,000 smell, kind of, you know? -425 +429 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,000 David: I know. -426 +430 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,961 -Dan: That -- it's just like a -weird phrase, but +Dan: That-- it's just like a +weird phrase but, -427 +431 00:18:38,961 --> 00:18:40,760 like, a phrase that makes a lot of sense to people who have been -428 +432 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,401 doing it for a while i-is- is -you'll start to get like these +you'll start to get, like, these -429 +433 00:18:43,405 --> 00:18:45,000 -instincts or whatever these- -these -- like, i-it's okay if +instincts or whatever-- these- +these-- like, i-it's okay if -430 +434 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,881 you don't know the -431 +435 00:18:46,885 --> 00:18:48,278 exact phrase or I don't remember -the exact name of it -- some +the exact name of it-- some -432 +436 00:18:48,278 --> 00:18:49,671 specific -433 +437 00:18:49,790 --> 00:18:52,000 [chuckles] algorithm or anything like that, but ... -434 +438 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,020 okay, I know just sort of -435 +439 00:18:54,020 --> 00:18:55,445 almost intuitively that this thing is going to take, like, -436 +440 00:18:55,445 --> 00:18:56,870 way -437 +441 00:18:56,871 --> 00:19:00,530 longer ... than it should. And I probably can do it a different- -438 +442 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:01,000 different way, you know? That- that sort of thing. -439 +443 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,000 David: Right. -440 +444 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,000 Dan: I think that's the sort of thing that would hit on -441 +445 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:05,211 -your idea of the -- +your idea of the-- -442 +446 00:19:05,211 --> 00:19:08,961 like, doing- doing a high level, you know, survey -443 +447 00:19:08,961 --> 00:19:10,881 course, something like that. You'll get exposed to some of -444 +448 00:19:10,885 --> 00:19:14,151 that stuff, even if ... and you don't need to know, like, the -445 +449 00:19:14,151 --> 00:19:15,080 down and dirty details, you know? -446 +450 00:19:15,486 --> 00:19:20,645 David: Even if we take something that is, like, computer sciencey -447 +451 00:19:20,796 --> 00:19:23,898 heavy, like Big-O notation, it's -very, almost ... theoretical or +very-- almost ... theoretical or -448 +452 00:19:23,898 --> 00:19:27,000 a- -449 +453 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:27,980 Dan: Right. -450 +454 00:19:27,980 --> 00:19:29,480 David: -an academic. Like, it's a very academic way to approach -451 +455 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:30,980 this- -452 +456 00:19:30,980 --> 00:19:31,310 Dan: Exactly. -453 +457 00:19:31,310 --> 00:19:33,000 David: -technology thing. Not a very practical way. But, -454 +458 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,560 -knowing that -- like, +knowing that-- like, -455 +459 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,530 -being able to -- like, knowing +being able to, like-- knowing that something called Big-O -456 +460 00:19:39,530 --> 00:19:43,760 notation exists, being able to -have one sentence about it, will +have one sentence about it will -457 +461 00:19:43,766 --> 00:19:49,701 help you identify when it might be ... in, like, a part of the -458 +462 00:19:49,701 --> 00:19:52,941 problem you're dealing with, and -give you enough words to go and +give you enough words to go, and -459 +463 00:19:52,941 --> 00:19:55,851 -Google the details of how it +google the details of how it intersects with the problem -460 +464 00:19:55,851 --> 00:19:59,691 you're with. And you don't need to be able to explain it in -461 +465 00:19:59,695 --> 00:20:00,711 -detail or -- +detail or-- -462 +466 00:20:01,536 --> 00:20:01,836 Dan: Right. -463 +467 00:20:01,971 --> 00:20:02,000 David: Do you see what I mean? So- -464 +468 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,000 Dan: Totally. -465 +469 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,401 David: -just knowing that it's a thing or -466 +470 00:20:04,401 --> 00:20:05,931 knowing that caching is a thing without knowing how caching -467 +471 00:20:05,931 --> 00:20:07,461 works -468 +472 00:20:07,490 --> 00:20:13,000 or knowing that ... I don't know. The- the one that came -469 +473 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:13,941 to mind as you were -470 +474 00:20:13,941 --> 00:20:17,000 talking is that string concatenation is expensive in -471 +475 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,830 C# [Bekah and Dan chuckle], -472 +476 00:20:18,830 --> 00:20:21,290 for whatever reason. Because strings are immutable in C#. -473 +477 00:20:21,290 --> 00:20:23,750 They're -474 +478 00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:25,145 treated as immutable objects. So every time you're joining -475 +479 00:20:25,145 --> 00:20:26,540 strings -476 +480 00:20:26,540 --> 00:20:28,385 together, you're allocating extra memory and copying -477 +481 00:20:28,385 --> 00:20:30,230 everything -478 +482 00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:35,030 over. So it's a very expensive operation. That detail of C# -479 +483 00:20:35,030 --> 00:20:36,335 would never have stuck for me if -I don't think -- if I didn't +I don't think-- if I didn't -480 +484 00:20:36,335 --> 00:20:37,640 know a -481 +485 00:20:37,641 --> 00:20:40,101 little bit of fundamentals about how memory allocation works. -482 +486 00:20:41,030 --> 00:20:41,871 Dan: Yeah. Yeah. -483 +487 00:20:42,296 --> 00:20:44,845 Bekah: I think, too, once you -are working, you- you're coding +are working, you-- you're coding -484 +488 00:20:44,845 --> 00:20:47,394 more -485 +489 00:20:47,395 --> 00:20:51,236 rather than you're learning. Those concepts become easier to -486 +490 00:20:51,236 --> 00:20:53,095 -understand, because we- if -you're learning, they- they are +understand because we- if you're +learning, they- they are -487 +491 00:20:53,095 --> 00:20:54,954 kind of -488 +492 00:20:54,955 --> 00:20:59,185 theoretical, right? Because you have no use to apply them. Or if -489 +493 00:20:59,185 --> 00:21:02,486 you are building a project for a bootcamp or something, it's a -490 +494 00:21:02,486 --> 00:21:05,188 tiny little project. So it doesn't exactly correlate -491 +495 00:21:05,188 --> 00:21:07,890 m-much- -492 +496 00:21:07,951 --> 00:21:11,520 much of that stuff with what you're doing. So when you have -493 +497 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,065 that, like, practical application and you're learning -494 +498 00:21:13,065 --> 00:21:14,610 -that, like, +that like, -495 +499 00:21:14,641 --> 00:21:17,190 "Oh, okay. I understand where this would be applied or where I -496 +500 00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:19,739 would -497 +501 00:21:19,746 --> 00:21:21,843 need to reference this idea." And, at least for me, it becomes -498 +502 00:21:21,843 --> 00:21:23,940 a -499 +503 00:21:23,941 --> 00:21:27,000 little bit easier once I can see ... all right. Th-this is -500 +504 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,911 where we need to think about this. -501 +505 00:21:31,191 --> 00:21:34,431 David: This- this goes to my understanding of how we learn -502 +506 00:21:34,431 --> 00:21:36,215 as humans. Like, we learn better when there's emotion involved, -503 +507 00:21:36,215 --> 00:21:37,999 we -504 +508 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,680 learn better when there's motion involved, we learn better when -505 +509 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,360 we -506 +510 00:21:41,361 --> 00:21:44,608 have real experience to hang ideas off of. And that just -507 +511 00:21:44,608 --> 00:21:47,855 makes -508 +512 00:21:47,855 --> 00:21:51,846 intuitive sense to me. That also is why I say go practical. And -509 -00:21:51,846 --> 00:21:53,691 +513 +00:21:51,846 --> 00:21:55,536 learn just enough theory to have language ... to know when you -510 -00:21:53,691 --> 00:21:55,536 -need - -511 +514 00:21:55,536 --> 00:21:56,586 -to go deeper. +need to go deeper. -512 +515 00:21:59,405 --> 00:22:01,000 -Bekah: I am [chuckles] -- so, -like, writing down, I -- you +Bekah: I am [chuckles]-- so, +like, writing down, I-- you -513 +516 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:02,736 -just gave me a new talk idea, +just gave me a new talk idea -514 +517 00:22:02,740 --> 00:22:06,605 -and the title has to be like +and the title has to be, like, motion and emotion. And it has -515 +518 00:22:06,611 --> 00:22:09,455 -something to do with learning, +something to do with learning because I think both of those -516 -00:22:09,455 --> 00:22:11,600 +519 +00:22:09,455 --> 00:22:13,745 things are, you know, does tie it to our memory. It does allow -517 -00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,745 -us - -518 +520 00:22:13,806 --> 00:22:15,605 -to connect with it in a +us to connect with it in a different way. And I know that -519 +521 00:22:15,605 --> 00:22:17,404 there are -520 +522 00:22:17,405 --> 00:22:19,685 people out there, there were people when I was learning that -521 +523 00:22:19,685 --> 00:22:23,306 would said, "We have to learn -how to think higher level +how to think higher level, -522 +524 00:22:23,306 --> 00:22:24,970 and theoretically, and how to -apply that." And I don't -- I +apply that." And I don't-- I -523 +525 00:22:24,970 --> 00:22:26,634 mean, -524 +526 00:22:26,726 --> 00:22:31,766 my background, I taught college English for 10 years and so I- I -525 +527 00:22:31,766 --> 00:22:33,416 can think theoretically [chuckles]. It's something that -526 +528 00:22:33,416 --> 00:22:35,066 I had to do, but -527 +529 00:22:35,066 --> 00:22:41,185 I don't think that we 'have' to do that, you know? I- I think -528 +530 00:22:41,185 --> 00:22:44,306 that that's a little bit gatekeepy. -529 +531 00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:49,100 David: Absolutely. And- and it also presupposes that there's -530 +532 00:22:49,100 --> 00:22:50,690 only one -531 +533 00:22:50,691 --> 00:22:54,681 way to learn and only one way to think. And- and that seems to be -532 +534 00:22:54,681 --> 00:22:59,090 an idea that was stronger years ago, and now we know better, one -533 +535 00:22:59,090 --> 00:23:01,911 of those ideas. Now we recognize that there's a whole spectrum of -534 +536 00:23:01,911 --> 00:23:06,020 how people think, and process information, and learn, and -535 +537 00:23:06,050 --> 00:23:08,931 view, and interact with the world, and experience the world. -536 +538 00:23:10,371 --> 00:23:11,646 Bekah: Yeah. And you have a- a lot of experience with this, -537 +539 00:23:11,646 --> 00:23:12,921 especially -538 +540 00:23:12,921 --> 00:23:16,461 at Virtual Coffee. For our listeners who aren't in the -539 +541 00:23:16,461 --> 00:23:20,240 Slack, we have a co-working room where anybody can join at any -540 +542 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,235 time. And it's an open Zoom room. And sometimes people are -541 +543 00:23:22,235 --> 00:23:24,230 there to -542 +544 00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:27,351 hang out, sometimes people have -questions and they jump into +questions, and they jump into -543 +545 00:23:27,355 --> 00:23:32,570 pair. And David i-is one of our cur- our top co-working room -544 +546 00:23:32,570 --> 00:23:36,500 attendees, I think. And you've helped a lot of different people -545 +547 00:23:36,506 --> 00:23:39,945 in the co-working room. So, first of all, thank you. And -546 +548 00:23:39,945 --> 00:23:41,400 second of all, you know, this all ties into what we've been -547 +549 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,855 talking -548 +550 00:23:42,855 --> 00:23:46,006 about. How do you kind of approach people who come in and -549 +551 00:23:46,185 --> 00:23:48,030 have questions? Because there are so many different ways of, -550 +552 00:23:48,030 --> 00:23:49,875 you -551 +553 00:23:49,881 --> 00:23:50,895 know, talking through things and learning. -552 +554 00:23:51,171 --> 00:23:54,171 -David: Oh, my gosh. Well, thank +David: Oh my gosh. Well, thank you. I love the co-working room. -553 +555 00:23:54,175 --> 00:23:57,411 It's one of my favorite parts of co- of Virtual Coffee and this -554 +556 00:23:57,411 --> 00:24:02,151 community that you've created. I never know what's gonna -555 +557 00:24:02,155 --> 00:24:04,221 happen when I go in there. But I always know it's gonna be -556 +558 00:24:04,221 --> 00:24:04,500 friendly. -557 +559 00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:04,500 Bekah: [Chuckles] Yeah. -558 +560 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,790 David: And friendly faces. And in the middle of a pandemic, -559 +561 00:24:07,796 --> 00:24:09,338 certainly, when I was locked in my room, it was a lifesaver to -560 +562 00:24:09,338 --> 00:24:10,880 be -561 +563 00:24:10,885 --> 00:24:13,260 -able to dial it -- like, walking +able to dial it-- like, walking virtually into a room and- and -562 +564 00:24:13,260 --> 00:24:15,635 meet -563 +565 00:24:15,635 --> 00:24:20,346 friendly people. And, one of my favorite co-working room -564 +566 00:24:20,346 --> 00:24:23,645 -memories is I, you know, often +memories is I-- you know, often you go in, and there's people -565 +567 00:24:23,645 --> 00:24:26,016 who are not sharing a screen, and they're just talking. Or -566 +568 00:24:26,016 --> 00:24:30,276 sometimes I go in, and there's people who are all on mute, and -567 +569 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,768 just enjoying being together. And other times, I- I- I logged -568 +570 00:24:32,768 --> 00:24:35,256 in once, -569 +571 00:24:35,256 --> 00:24:37,475 and Meg had her laptop on her -front porch and she was +front porch, and she was -570 +572 00:24:37,475 --> 00:24:39,694 gardening. And I -571 +573 00:24:39,701 --> 00:24:41,000 logged in another time [Dan chuckles], and Aurelie -572 +574 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,256 was making crepes [Bekah chuckles] in -573 +575 00:24:44,256 --> 00:24:46,235 her kitchen. It was lovely. So, it blew open for me that this -574 +576 00:24:46,235 --> 00:24:48,214 was -575 +577 00:24:48,215 --> 00:24:51,935 really a- a place where people could connect, which is ... at -576 +578 00:24:51,935 --> 00:24:57,846 the heart of this community. But to focus back, you asked about -577 +579 00:24:57,846 --> 00:25:01,273 how do I approach ... pairing or working with people from lo- a -578 +580 00:25:01,273 --> 00:25:04,700 lots of -579 +581 00:25:04,701 --> 00:25:05,840 different backgrounds and lots of different technology? Well, -580 +582 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:06,979 some -581 +583 00:25:06,980 --> 00:25:08,630 of it is cuz I've been doing this for a long time, so I've -582 +584 00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:10,280 seen a -583 +585 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:15,861 -bunch of things. I -- some of it +bunch of things. I-- some of it is that I'm in a job where I'm -584 +586 00:25:15,861 --> 00:25:19,875 actively working in several different languages. And I'm -585 +587 00:25:20,655 --> 00:25:23,925 in a job where I'm working to -support developers. So I -- for +support developers. So I-- for -586 +588 00:25:23,925 --> 00:25:25,440 five years, that's really been my role. And even, Bekah, the -587 +589 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:26,955 other -588 +590 00:25:26,955 --> 00:25:28,215 day you were talking about DevRel. And I realized, some of -589 +591 00:25:28,215 --> 00:25:29,475 what I've -590 +592 00:25:29,476 --> 00:25:31,470 been doing falls under that bucket of really looking for -591 +593 00:25:31,470 --> 00:25:33,464 ways -592 +594 00:25:33,465 --> 00:25:38,355 to help people who are having problems. And I find there are -593 +595 00:25:38,355 --> 00:25:41,130 -some common threads, like a lot +some common threads, like, a lot of it is ... really slowing down -594 +596 00:25:41,130 --> 00:25:43,905 my -595 +597 00:25:43,905 --> 00:25:48,050 thought process to take the time to meet somebody in their -596 +598 00:25:48,050 --> 00:25:51,215 thought process as best I can. To really try to hear ... not -597 +599 00:25:51,215 --> 00:25:54,380 what I -598 +600 00:25:54,381 --> 00:25:56,360 think the problem is, but try to hear what someone else thinks -599 +601 00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:58,339 the -600 +602 00:25:58,340 --> 00:26:00,395 -problem is, and try to look at -it from their point of view, as +problem is and try to look at it +from their point of view as -601 +603 00:26:00,395 --> 00:26:02,450 best -602 +604 00:26:02,451 --> 00:26:07,101 I can. And try to look with them at whatever they're looking at. -603 +605 00:26:07,101 --> 00:26:09,441 So I will often say, "If you're having trouble, can you share an -604 +606 00:26:09,445 --> 00:26:12,951 error message? Or can we share a screen and I can look at the -605 +607 00:26:12,951 --> 00:26:15,770 -same thing you are." Because +same thing you are?" Because words becoming adequate for -606 +608 00:26:15,770 --> 00:26:18,589 talking -607 +609 00:26:18,590 --> 00:26:22,310 about technical things. English words in particular are so -608 +610 00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:26,000 imprecise sometimes. That we can say the same word and mean -609 +611 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,270 different things. So I often find it really useful to share -610 +612 00:26:29,270 --> 00:26:32,540 ... a -611 +613 00:26:32,546 --> 00:26:34,313 screen, and pair program, and look at the sa- look at the same -612 +614 00:26:34,313 --> 00:26:36,080 thing at -613 +615 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,155 the same time, or to share a -stack trace, or a, you know, the +stack trace, or a, you know, -614 +616 00:26:39,155 --> 00:26:42,230 --- +the-- -615 +617 00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:44,705 an error message. That's really useful. I think I've drifted -616 +618 00:26:44,705 --> 00:26:47,180 from -617 +619 00:26:47,361 --> 00:26:48,351 the heart of your question though. -618 +620 00:26:48,500 --> 00:26:50,151 Bekah: I mean, I think it's great. I mean, you're really -619 +621 00:26:50,151 --> 00:26:52,296 taking a- a person-centered approach to each person that -620 +622 00:26:52,296 --> 00:26:54,441 comes into -621 -00:26:54,445 --> 00:26:58,550 -that room. And the idea of like -listening and understanding is +623 +00:26:54,445 --> 00:26:56,497 +that room. And the idea of, +like, listening and -622 +624 +00:26:56,497 --> 00:26:58,549 +understanding is + +625 00:26:58,550 --> 00:27:00,575 something that I- I think a lot of people struggle wh- struggle -623 +626 00:27:00,575 --> 00:27:02,600 with. -624 +627 00:27:02,601 --> 00:27:04,026 Myself included. Because it's like, "All right, let's just -625 +628 00:27:04,026 --> 00:27:05,451 dive -626 -00:27:05,451 --> 00:27:07,895 +629 +00:27:05,451 --> 00:27:10,339 into this," right? And get going without, like, taking that time -627 -00:27:07,895 --> 00:27:10,339 -to - -628 +630 00:27:10,401 --> 00:27:12,800 -understand what's happening with -the other person first. +to understand what's happening +with the other person first. -629 +631 00:27:14,661 --> 00:27:20,810 David: I really think that's important. At some point in -630 +632 00:27:20,810 --> 00:27:23,997 my growth and career, I discovered the Agile Manifesto, -631 +633 00:27:23,997 --> 00:27:27,184 and people -632 +634 00:27:27,215 --> 00:27:30,185 -have -- I've since read lots of +have-- I've since read lots of things, you know, positive and -633 +635 00:27:30,185 --> 00:27:31,865 not so positive about the Agile Manifesto. And I don't mean to -634 +636 00:27:31,865 --> 00:27:33,545 go -635 +637 00:27:33,546 --> 00:27:38,346 down that rabbit hole, but the first value statement really -636 +638 00:27:38,351 --> 00:27:40,238 stuck and resonated with me that we value people and -637 +639 00:27:40,238 --> 00:27:42,125 relationships -638 +640 00:27:42,125 --> 00:27:49,101 over processes and things. That is kind of a radical idea. If -639 +641 00:27:49,101 --> 00:27:50,751 -you- if you take that, and +you-- if you take that and nothing else, that we value -640 +642 00:27:50,751 --> 00:27:52,401 people in -641 +643 00:27:52,401 --> 00:27:56,270 relationships over attachment to any particular way of doing -642 +644 00:27:56,270 --> 00:27:58,520 things, and you start there, and you really look to meet the -643 +645 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,770 other -644 +646 00:28:00,770 --> 00:28:03,351 people that you're working with, no matter what their role is, no -645 +647 00:28:03,351 --> 00:28:06,471 matter what their background is, and realize that we're all part -646 +648 00:28:06,471 --> 00:28:09,621 -of a group or a team or a +of a group, or a team, or a community that's trying to -647 +649 00:28:09,621 --> 00:28:14,796 accomplish something together, I think all of the other practices -648 +650 00:28:14,796 --> 00:28:17,031 around software development and delivery can emerge. If you -649 +651 00:28:17,031 --> 00:28:19,266 start -650 +652 00:28:19,266 --> 00:28:20,945 with who's at the table, then you really make space for -651 +653 00:28:20,945 --> 00:28:22,624 everybody -652 +654 00:28:22,625 --> 00:28:25,655 who's at the table. And that -could be a hard thing, cuz we're +could be a hard thing cuz we're -653 +655 00:28:25,655 --> 00:28:27,846 not always used to doing that. There is a lot of gatekeepy, -654 +656 00:28:29,375 --> 00:28:33,905 -like language and habits in +like, language and habits in technology. I try to do my part -655 +657 00:28:33,905 --> 00:28:35,346 to break that stuff down. -656 +658 00:28:36,246 --> 00:28:39,336 Bekah: Yeah, I think a lot of -times too -- sometimes it's +times, too-- sometimes it's -657 +659 00:28:39,336 --> 00:28:42,996 certainly intentional and other times it's not, it's- it's just -658 +660 00:28:43,115 --> 00:28:48,066 habits that have built up -personally or through careers or +personally, or through careers, -659 +661 00:28:48,066 --> 00:28:51,875 -with the teams that you have +or with the teams that you have worked on before. So, you know, -660 +662 00:28:51,875 --> 00:28:57,215 there's a- a need for constantly evaluating ourselves and how we -661 +663 00:28:57,665 --> 00:29:00,786 approach the people that we are talking to or working with. -662 +664 00:29:05,540 --> 00:29:08,000 -David: I noticed something else, -too. That ... pairing, +David: I noticed something else +too. That ... pairing -663 +665 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,000 -really well, takes time -- takes +really well, takes time-- takes me time. -664 +666 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:11,871 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -665 +667 00:29:11,871 --> 00:29:14,000 David: I have to really slow down, and let go of any -666 +668 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,651 pressure, and really be -667 +669 00:29:15,651 --> 00:29:19,461 present with another person. And that takes time, and energy, and -668 +670 00:29:19,461 --> 00:29:22,086 effort. And if I'm under a deadline to deliver something, -669 +671 00:29:22,086 --> 00:29:24,711 it -670 +672 00:29:24,711 --> 00:29:29,510 can be challenging to make that time and that pressure. But I -671 +673 00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:35,556 think it is so worth it to ... balance individual contribution, -672 +674 00:29:35,556 --> 00:29:39,756 and individual delivery, and individual speed with all of the -673 +675 00:29:39,756 --> 00:29:43,266 rich benefits you get from building community as you work. -674 +676 00:29:43,326 --> 00:29:45,905 And from building relationships, and sharing knowledge, and -675 +677 00:29:46,205 --> 00:29:49,925 building experience, and supporting everybody to grow in -676 +678 00:29:49,931 --> 00:29:55,145 confidence and skill. There's so many benefits from actually -677 +679 00:29:55,145 --> 00:29:55,955 working together. -678 -00:29:57,381 --> 00:29:59,961 +680 +00:29:57,381 --> 00:29:58,671 Bekah: Absolutely. And next -month, our monthly challenge — +month, our monthly -679 +681 +00:29:58,671 --> 00:29:59,961 +challenge—this + +682 00:29:59,961 --> 00:30:02,571 -this will be in June — is Month -of Feedback. And so we read +will be in June—is Month of +Feedback. And so we read -680 +683 00:30:02,571 --> 00:30:05,181 "Radical -681 +684 00:30:05,181 --> 00:30:08,030 -Candor". I -- we've mentioned it +Candor". I-- we've mentioned it so many times. It's been a -682 +685 00:30:08,030 --> 00:30:09,560 favorite of ours. But when you're working with so many -683 +686 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,090 different -684 +687 00:30:11,096 --> 00:30:15,320 people, you are providing a lot of feedback and that can be hard -685 +688 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,701 sometimes, right? Because that feedback has to be critical. How -686 +689 00:30:19,730 --> 00:30:22,582 do you approach, you know, -giving honest feedback, but +giving honest feedback but -687 +690 00:30:22,582 --> 00:30:25,434 still supporting -688 +691 00:30:25,675 --> 00:30:28,375 the person that you are providing the feedback to. -689 +692 00:30:29,855 --> 00:30:31,445 David: That's a great question. I started reading "Radical -690 +693 00:30:31,445 --> 00:30:33,035 Candor" -691 +694 00:30:33,276 --> 00:30:35,166 with someone on my team because you have talked about it so -692 +695 00:30:35,166 --> 00:30:37,056 much. -693 +696 00:30:37,266 --> 00:30:47,480 And it is the ... I struggle a bit with the directness of -694 +697 00:30:47,540 --> 00:30:49,385 critical feedback. That's where I found that book was really -695 +698 00:30:49,385 --> 00:30:51,230 useful -696 +699 00:30:51,230 --> 00:30:54,411 in giving me some examples of how to be direct without being -697 +700 00:30:54,871 --> 00:30:55,000 confrontational, right? And- -698 +701 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,000 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -699 +702 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,161 David: -to stay heart-centered, to stay -700 +703 00:30:58,161 --> 00:31:01,431 person-centered, and to really have the other persons to be -701 +704 00:31:01,435 --> 00:31:04,550 committed to the other person. I -find I really practice the idea +find I really practice the -702 +705 00:31:04,550 --> 00:31:07,665 --- +idea-- -703 +706 00:31:07,756 --> 00:31:08,940 well, practice which means I'm not always good at it, but I -704 +707 00:31:08,940 --> 00:31:10,124 work -705 +708 00:31:10,125 --> 00:31:13,830 at it. I practice the idea that everybody is where they're at, -706 +709 00:31:13,830 --> 00:31:17,535 on -707 +710 00:31:17,536 --> 00:31:20,655 their own personal journey. And everybody is right where they're -708 +711 00:31:20,661 --> 00:31:23,283 supposed to be in the moment. And exactly the people that show -709 +712 00:31:23,283 --> 00:31:25,905 up -710 +713 00:31:25,905 --> 00:31:28,786 are the people who are supposed to be there. And the people who -711 +714 00:31:28,786 --> 00:31:30,766 are on your team are the people who are supposed to be there. -712 +715 00:31:30,766 --> 00:31:33,428 Like, really try to embrace, and accept, and love what's -713 +716 00:31:33,428 --> 00:31:36,090 happening. -714 +717 00:31:36,451 --> 00:31:42,931 I think that's really important. To be more practical though, -715 +718 00:31:43,351 --> 00:31:46,425 -I find, still, I'm noticing a +I find-- still, I'm noticing a lot of self-doubt and -716 +719 00:31:46,425 --> 00:31:49,499 self-criticism -717 +720 00:31:49,530 --> 00:31:52,921 that happens in technology. And so one of the things that I -718 +721 00:31:52,921 --> 00:31:54,975 really try to do when I'm pairing is be encouraging. Above -719 +722 00:31:54,975 --> 00:31:57,029 all else, -720 +723 00:31:57,030 --> 00:31:59,227 to be supportive and encouraging. Because the biggest -721 +724 00:31:59,227 --> 00:32:01,424 thing that I -722 +725 00:32:01,425 --> 00:32:03,855 believe will help people learn is to grow that confidence. That -723 +726 00:32:03,855 --> 00:32:06,496 it's okay to make a mistake. It's okay not to know something. -724 +727 00:32:06,915 --> 00:32:09,615 That's actually part of the job. And the faster that you are -725 +728 00:32:09,615 --> 00:32:13,726 honest and open about what you don't know as well as what you -726 +729 00:32:13,726 --> 00:32:15,481 know, then the faster that everybody can see how to help -727 +730 00:32:15,481 --> 00:32:17,236 -you +you, -728 +731 00:32:17,236 --> 00:32:19,636 and the faster you can learn. -And so I really just try to -- +And so I really just try to-- -729 +732 00:32:19,636 --> 00:32:22,036 always -730 +733 00:32:22,036 --> 00:32:24,136 try to be supportive, and patient, and guide people -731 +734 00:32:24,136 --> 00:32:26,236 towards what -732 +735 00:32:26,236 --> 00:32:28,576 seems to be the next step so that they can build their -733 +736 00:32:28,576 --> 00:32:31,365 understanding, and get stronger, and bigger. Because that kind of -734 +737 00:32:31,365 --> 00:32:33,465 pairing, and feedback, and support, it's not about me ... -735 +738 00:32:33,465 --> 00:32:35,565 in that moment. -736 +739 00:32:35,566 --> 00:32:37,590 It's really about trying to work with somebody and support them -737 +740 00:32:37,590 --> 00:32:39,614 to -738 +741 00:32:39,615 --> 00:32:43,215 take whatever the next step is for them. And if I'm deciding -739 +742 00:32:43,215 --> 00:32:49,185 what it is, then ... that's not right. What I do sometimes -740 +743 00:32:49,185 --> 00:32:52,965 though, is I might point people in a direction. Based on the -741 +744 00:32:52,965 --> 00:32:54,458 journey that I've walked, I might say, "You know, have you -742 +745 00:32:54,458 --> 00:32:55,951 thought -743 +746 00:32:55,951 --> 00:32:58,000 -about this?" or "Let's go look -at that," or "I'd like --" +about this?" Or "Let's go look +at that," or "I'd like ..." -744 +747 00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,371 yeah. I do more -745 -00:32:59,371 --> 00:33:00,930 +748 +00:32:59,371 --> 00:33:02,489 direct coaching sometimes with people on my team at work where -746 -00:33:00,930 --> 00:33:02,489 -I - -747 +749 00:33:02,490 --> 00:33:04,395 -say, "I'd like you to learn +I say, "I'd like you to learn this," or "I'd like you to learn -748 +750 00:33:04,395 --> 00:33:06,300 that." -749 +751 00:33:06,961 --> 00:33:09,316 You know, in that context, I feel like there's a framework, -750 +752 00:33:09,316 --> 00:33:11,671 and -751 +753 00:33:11,675 --> 00:33:13,651 it's part of my role and responsibility to be more -752 +754 00:33:13,651 --> 00:33:18,211 directive. But I still try to partner with people, always to -753 +755 00:33:18,211 --> 00:33:22,111 say, "There's what you want to learn and what you're interested -754 +756 00:33:22,111 --> 00:33:25,171 in, and there's what I see as an opportunity for you, and let's -755 +757 00:33:25,171 --> 00:33:30,030 bring those together and make -out a plan." It's in -- +out a plan." It's in-- -756 +758 00:33:30,121 --> 00:33:30,480 Bekah: Yeah, I love that. -757 +759 00:33:31,111 --> 00:33:31,230 David: Yeah? -758 +760 00:33:32,221 --> 00:33:33,346 -Bekah: But -- I was just gonna +Bekah: But-- I was just gonna say, acknowledging the person -759 +761 00:33:33,346 --> 00:33:34,471 where -760 +762 00:33:34,471 --> 00:33:37,711 they're at on the journey is a huge part of that. And- and what -761 +763 00:33:37,711 --> 00:33:42,121 your relationship is with that person. Because, for sure, we -762 +764 00:33:42,121 --> 00:33:45,570 communicate differently with people we've been working with -763 -00:33:45,570 --> 00:33:49,441 -for a while or somebody who's -new on the team or someone we're +765 +00:33:45,570 --> 00:33:47,505 +for a while, or somebody who's +new on the team, or someone -764 +766 +00:33:47,505 --> 00:33:49,440 +we're + +767 00:33:49,441 --> 00:33:53,250 meeting for the first time. You know, all of these things play a -765 +768 00:33:53,250 --> 00:33:56,971 role into, I think, how we provide feedback and what the -766 +769 00:33:56,971 --> 00:34:00,375 expectations are ... of us, you know? If I ... am resop- -767 +770 00:34:00,375 --> 00:34:03,779 responding to -768 +771 00:34:03,786 --> 00:34:07,141 a student's paper, there's an expectation of how I'll respond -769 +772 00:34:07,141 --> 00:34:08,611 to that paper, versus if somebody says, "Hey, can you -770 +773 00:34:08,611 --> 00:34:10,081 give me -771 +774 00:34:10,081 --> 00:34:13,561 -feedback on my blog post?" it's +feedback on my blog post?" It's going to be a little bit -772 -00:34:13,561 --> 00:34:15,061 +775 +00:34:13,561 --> 00:34:16,561 different. I'm going to provide feedback either way, but the -773 -00:34:15,061 --> 00:34:16,561 -tone - -774 +776 00:34:16,561 --> 00:34:18,030 -is going to change, for sure. +tone is going to change, for +sure. -775 +777 00:34:19,416 --> 00:34:22,445 David: But through it all, that concept of people and -776 +778 00:34:22,445 --> 00:34:24,333 relationships first is really -important. Like -- and that's +important. Like-- and that's -777 +779 00:34:24,333 --> 00:34:26,221 what -778 +780 00:34:26,221 --> 00:34:28,276 -I have enjoyed about, the part -of "Radical Candor" that I've +I have enjoyed about—the part of +"Radical Candor" that I've -779 +781 00:34:28,276 --> 00:34:30,331 managed -780 +782 00:34:30,331 --> 00:34:33,721 -to read so far, is that it does +to read so far—is that it does start with that people-centered -781 +783 00:34:33,721 --> 00:34:40,260 approach. And that ... valuing the person that you're giving -782 +784 00:34:40,260 --> 00:34:43,710 feedback to you and valuing the relationship for what it is, not -783 +785 00:34:43,710 --> 00:34:45,225 needing to make it something -that it isn't, in whatever +that it isn't in whatever -784 +786 00:34:45,225 --> 00:34:46,740 context, but -785 +787 00:34:46,740 --> 00:34:51,331 valuing it for what it is. And valuing that the other person -786 +788 00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:53,735 involved is a human on a journey, just like you're a -787 +789 00:34:53,735 --> 00:34:55,170 human on a -788 +790 00:34:55,170 --> 00:34:57,480 journey. And, you know, there was a time when I didn't know -789 +791 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,790 what I -790 +792 00:34:59,791 --> 00:35:02,581 was doing and people were gracious with me. So I tried -791 +793 00:35:02,581 --> 00:35:06,391 to return that favor. Pay it forward, in that sense. -792 +794 00:35:07,561 --> 00:35:10,125 Dan: Yeah. And I- I'd say another- another ... another -793 +795 00:35:10,125 --> 00:35:12,689 piece of -794 +796 00:35:12,690 --> 00:35:16,501 this is, you know, when you talk about meeting people where -795 +797 00:35:16,501 --> 00:35:18,210 they are and things like that, it helps when you know them -796 +798 00:35:18,210 --> 00:35:19,919 [chuckles] -797 +799 00:35:20,431 --> 00:35:24,300 already, right? I-it's easier to have connections when you ... -798 +800 00:35:26,130 --> 00:35:28,000 well, I was gonna say when you -are connected, I don't know. +are connected. I don't know. -799 +801 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,101 [Dan and Bekah chuckle] I -800 +802 00:35:29,106 --> 00:35:30,078 dunno. That sentence kind of broke down in the middle there. -801 +803 00:35:30,078 --> 00:35:31,050 But ... -802 +804 00:35:31,050 --> 00:35:34,681 I was thinking about two things when- when- when you were -803 +805 00:35:34,681 --> 00:35:37,000 talking. Fun thing, Bek- Bekah -and I worked to-together -- +and I worked to-together-- -804 +806 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,016 and I don't even know why I -805 +807 00:35:39,016 --> 00:35:41,056 brought this up, but [chuckles] Bekah and I worked together. And -806 +808 00:35:41,056 --> 00:35:43,096 it took -807 +809 00:35:43,096 --> 00:35:44,326 -us -- I dunno. How long do you -think it took us before -- I +us-- I dunno. How long do you +think it took us before-- I -808 +810 00:35:44,326 --> 00:35:45,556 mean, -809 +811 00:35:45,556 --> 00:35:47,686 at least a year or something -before we were really like -- +before we were really, like-- -810 +812 00:35:48,181 --> 00:35:50,000 Bekah: I feel like right before the pandemic hit- -811 +813 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,000 Dan: [Chuckles] Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah. -812 +814 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,000 Bekah: -we were, like, eight -months in, and we, like, we +months in, and we-- like, we -813 +815 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,940 finally hit that stride. And -814 +816 00:35:53,940 --> 00:35:56,000 then- and then [chuckles] ... and kinda messed up. -815 -00:35:55,666 --> 00:35:58,283 +817 +00:35:55,666 --> 00:36:00,900 Dan: Yeah. And- and some of- and some of that is, like ... some -816 -00:35:58,283 --> 00:36:00,900 -of - -817 +818 00:36:00,900 --> 00:36:03,195 -it is me -- you know, so Bekah +of it is me-- you know, so Bekah had just started in- in, like, -818 +819 00:36:03,195 --> 00:36:05,490 in dev and -819 +820 00:36:05,490 --> 00:36:08,101 had just kind of gotten outta bootcamp and stuff. And so some -820 +821 00:36:08,101 --> 00:36:10,621 of it was me, like, learning how to do that better, you know? -821 +822 00:36:10,681 --> 00:36:13,681 Learning to do all the stuff that David's just talking about. -822 +823 00:36:14,070 --> 00:36:18,181 And some of it I think is- is just that connection over time, -823 +824 00:36:18,181 --> 00:36:21,210 -you know, kind of just grows, -and grows stronger. And that's +you know, kind of just grows and +grows stronger. And that's -824 +825 00:36:21,210 --> 00:36:23,235 another thing I appreciate about Virtual Coffee. And- and I- I -825 +826 00:36:23,235 --> 00:36:25,260 think -826 +827 00:36:25,260 --> 00:36:28,590 -it helps is, when you know +it helps is-- when you know people, you know, it's- it's- -827 +828 00:36:28,621 --> 00:36:31,950 it's a little bit ... easier to do this [chuckles], I guess. And -828 +829 00:36:31,950 --> 00:36:35,279 to get -829 +830 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:36,540 practice at it when you know a person. And so- so you don't -830 +831 00:36:36,540 --> 00:36:37,800 have -831 +832 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,780 -to, maybe, necessarily -- like, -I- I -- when I pair with +to, maybe, necessarily-- like, +I- I-- when I pair with -832 +833 00:36:39,780 --> 00:36:41,760 somebody, I've -833 -00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:42,960 +834 +00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,160 paired with people, you know, kind of cold, right? So, people -834 -00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,160 -I - 835 00:36:44,161 --> 00:36:46,530 -don't know, and for the first +I don't know, and for the first time, and there's always a 836 00:36:46,530 --> 00:36:49,681 -bit of like level setting, you -know? And I- and I- I try to be +bit of, like, level setting, you +know? And I-- and I- I try to be 837 00:36:49,681 --> 00:36:51,016 -very -- I mean, I- I wanna be +very-- I mean, I- I wanna be very careful about it. And I, 838 @@ -3916,7 +3917,7 @@ you know, 839 00:36:52,356 --> 00:36:54,933 it's ... like, you- you don't -wanna assume that they -- that a +wanna assume that they-- that a 840 00:36:54,933 --> 00:36:57,510 @@ -3934,1675 +3935,1652 @@ don't 843 00:36:59,641 --> 00:37:01,365 know anything either, right? And -so, it's that, like -- it's that +so, it's that, like-- it's 844 00:37:01,365 --> 00:37:03,089 --- +that-- 845 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:05,000 -I- I just -- I called it level -setting cuz I'm like -- a-and +I- I just-- I called it level +setting cuz I'm, like-- a-and 846 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,931 -I've -- now I've just +I've-- now I've just 847 00:37:06,936 --> 00:37:08,988 started explicit do-doing it. -Like, I- I- I wanna be very like +Like, I- I- I wanna be very, 848 00:37:08,988 --> 00:37:11,040 -clear +like, clear 849 00:37:11,340 --> 00:37:13,471 -that I'm, you know, I- I just +that I'm-- you know, I- I just wanna figure out where we are, 850 -00:37:13,476 --> 00:37:15,033 +00:37:13,476 --> 00:37:16,590 you know, where you are, where- where, like, what level I can 851 -00:37:15,033 --> 00:37:16,590 -talk - -852 00:37:16,590 --> 00:37:18,090 -at, you know? And it's -- +talk at, you know? And it's-- there's no judgment at, you -853 +852 00:37:18,090 --> 00:37:19,590 know? -854 +853 00:37:19,621 --> 00:37:22,155 -It's just what -- it's just +It's just what-- it's just somebody who's just learning for -855 +854 00:37:22,155 --> 00:37:24,689 the first -856 +855 00:37:24,690 --> 00:37:26,641 time is gonna have different questions and different thought -857 +856 00:37:26,641 --> 00:37:28,786 processes than somebody who -maybe is a Ruby expert, but is +maybe is a Ruby expert but is -858 +857 00:37:28,786 --> 00:37:30,931 just -859 +858 00:37:30,931 --> 00:37:31,966 starting a JavaScript. That person is going to have -860 +859 00:37:31,966 --> 00:37:33,001 completely -861 +860 00:37:33,001 --> 00:37:37,170 different questions, you know? -You know, and- and so, it's +You know-- and- and so, it's -862 +861 00:37:37,170 --> 00:37:40,320 always ... I don't know. It's -always kind of interesting to -- +always kind of interesting to-- -863 +862 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,621 when you're connecting with different people. So when you -864 +863 00:37:43,621 --> 00:37:45,046 -have a -- when you're at work -and you're in a team, kind of, +have a-- when you're at work and +you're in a team, kind of, -865 +864 00:37:45,046 --> 00:37:46,471 you build -866 +865 00:37:46,471 --> 00:37:49,703 a rapport over- over time, right? And when you are in a lot -867 +866 00:37:49,703 --> 00:37:52,935 of -868 +867 00:37:52,936 --> 00:37:54,555 random internet communities, you can still be valuable and you -869 +868 00:37:54,555 --> 00:37:56,174 can -870 +869 00:37:56,175 --> 00:37:58,335 still have valuable connections -with people you don't know. +with people you don't know, -871 +870 00:37:58,755 --> 00:37:59,295 -For sure. But -- +for sure. But-- -872 +871 00:37:59,670 --> 00:38:03,090 David: Well, this overlaps, I think, with- with you were -873 +872 00:38:03,090 --> 00:38:06,885 talking about, Bekah, in that DevRel session you gave the -874 +873 00:38:06,885 --> 00:38:09,315 other day, too. That there's a part of community building and a -875 +874 00:38:09,315 --> 00:38:12,765 part of developer relations that is ... going out and reaching -876 +875 00:38:12,765 --> 00:38:16,215 out to -877 +876 00:38:16,215 --> 00:38:19,065 people that are not yet a part of the community. And trying to -878 +877 00:38:19,096 --> 00:38:24,465 create an opening ... connection with somebody that you don't -879 +878 00:38:24,465 --> 00:38:28,876 know. Dan, as you were talking, I'm reminded that one of -880 +879 00:38:28,876 --> 00:38:32,295 the things that constantly surprises me still, years later, -881 +880 00:38:32,565 --> 00:38:34,305 -when I -- about software +when I-- about software development, is how long it -882 +881 00:38:34,305 --> 00:38:36,045 takes to get -883 +882 00:38:36,045 --> 00:38:38,370 started with new people. Especially with new people. When -884 +883 00:38:38,370 --> 00:38:40,695 I- -885 +884 00:38:40,695 --> 00:38:40,695 Dan: Mm-hmm. -886 +885 00:38:40,695 --> 00:38:42,570 David: -sit down to pair with a new person, say, a new person -887 +886 00:38:42,570 --> 00:38:44,445 joins my -888 +887 00:38:44,445 --> 00:38:46,965 -team, or I'm in the co-working +team or I'm in the co-working room for the first time with -889 +888 00:38:46,965 --> 00:38:49,987 somebody new, it's not unreasonable to take one to -890 +889 00:38:49,987 --> 00:38:53,009 three -891 +890 00:38:53,010 --> 00:38:58,530 hours to just set out your -machines to work in this -- a +machines to work in this-- a -892 +891 00:38:58,536 --> 00:39:02,971 compatible way, and set up your language like you were talking -893 +892 00:39:02,971 --> 00:39:05,911 about, to figure out what level of detail and abstraction to -894 +893 00:39:05,911 --> 00:39:08,851 speak at. -895 +894 00:39:08,851 --> 00:39:09,675 Dan: Right, right. -896 +895 00:39:09,675 --> 00:39:11,670 David: And hear each other, and to develop a common -897 +896 00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:13,665 understanding of -898 +897 00:39:13,666 --> 00:39:15,571 the problem, and to work through build and compile issues in a -899 +898 00:39:15,571 --> 00:39:17,476 new -900 +899 00:39:17,481 --> 00:39:19,743 environment. Like, all these things that are not typing, that -901 +900 00:39:19,743 --> 00:39:22,005 are not- -902 +901 00:39:22,005 --> 00:39:24,000 Dan: [Chuckles] Yes. Yes. -903 +902 00:39:22,005 --> 00:39:24,030 David: -reading and writing code, become really, really -904 +903 00:39:24,030 --> 00:39:26,055 important -905 +904 00:39:26,356 --> 00:39:31,155 and take real time when you care about the relationships of the -906 +905 00:39:31,155 --> 00:39:34,905 people you're working with. And I'm constantly surprised by, you -907 +906 00:39:34,905 --> 00:39:40,936 know, how little I get da- how little progress we make in the -908 +907 00:39:40,936 --> 00:39:45,585 code when I sit down to pair with people at work, say, for -909 +908 00:39:45,585 --> 00:39:46,000 the first time. -910 +909 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,000 Dan: Absolutely. -911 +910 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,835 David: And how much time it takes to build that initial -912 +911 00:39:50,835 --> 00:39:53,925 rapport, and common ground, and common language, and common -913 +912 00:39:53,925 --> 00:39:55,605 environment. And the reason I keep talking about it here is -914 +913 00:39:55,605 --> 00:39:57,285 cuz -915 +914 00:39:57,315 --> 00:39:58,770 I really want to normalize it for anybody who's listening. If -916 +915 00:39:58,770 --> 00:40:00,225 you -917 +916 00:40:00,231 --> 00:40:02,118 try pair programming, and you sit down with another human, -918 +917 00:40:02,118 --> 00:40:04,005 expect -919 +918 00:40:04,005 --> 00:40:06,826 -it, to be awkward, at first. +it to be awkward at first. -920 +919 00:40:07,621 --> 00:40:07,951 Dan: Yeah. -921 +920 00:40:08,326 --> 00:40:09,526 David: I-it will be. And that's okay. That doesn't mean you're -922 +921 00:40:09,526 --> 00:40:10,726 doing it -923 +922 00:40:10,726 --> 00:40:12,000 wrong. And that doesn't mean -you're failing. It -- that's +you're failing. It-- that's -924 +923 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,274 -part -- +part-- -925 +924 00:40:13,306 --> 00:40:16,666 that means it's working. That's part of figuring out how to work -926 +925 00:40:16,666 --> 00:40:19,936 together with another human. And -it does -- it's like any other +it does-- it's like any other -927 +926 00:40:19,936 --> 00:40:24,195 muscle or skill. It does get easier over time. Dan, you spoke -928 +927 00:40:24,201 --> 00:40:27,525 -about, you know, you- you're +about, you know, you-- you're working to get better at how to -929 +928 00:40:27,525 --> 00:40:31,545 ask those questions more directly. How to figure out and -930 +929 00:40:31,545 --> 00:40:33,720 navigate that awkwardness faster. I- I ha- I feel like I -931 +930 00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:35,895 can navigate -932 +931 00:40:35,896 --> 00:40:36,766 -it faster now than -- +it faster now than-- -933 +932 00:40:36,856 --> 00:40:38,000 Dan: Yes, absolutely. -934 -00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:38,000 -Bekah: I think -- +933 +00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:38,200 +Bekah: I think-- -935 -00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,766 +934 +00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:39,766 Dan: Yeah. You're saying? -936 +935 00:40:39,766 --> 00:40:43,396 Bekah: You know, coming from the -other perspective. Like, it's- +other perspective, like, it's- -937 +936 00:40:43,425 --> 00:40:47,235 it's a two way conversation, right? And so, when you're first -938 +937 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:50,686 starting out, it can be really hard to ask those questions. And -939 +938 00:40:50,686 --> 00:40:51,916 if there's anything, I feel like I've learned over the last -940 +939 00:40:51,916 --> 00:40:53,146 couple -941 +940 00:40:53,146 --> 00:40:56,715 of years, it's ask those -questions, whether or not you +questions whether or not you -942 +941 00:40:56,715 --> 00:41:01,635 think it's gonna make you sound ridiculous or incapable. You're -943 +942 00:41:01,635 --> 00:41:06,226 going to learn and grow faster that way. And so, you know, -944 +943 00:41:06,556 --> 00:41:10,755 having those conversations and being open about where you are -945 +944 00:41:10,755 --> 00:41:15,195 too, if you're on the other side of that- that pairing screen is -946 +945 00:41:15,286 --> 00:41:19,936 essential. Do you have any tips for people who are on that side -947 +946 00:41:19,965 --> 00:41:21,705 of the screen? So opposite of you, David, about, like, how- -948 +947 00:41:21,705 --> 00:41:23,445 how do you -949 +948 00:41:23,445 --> 00:41:27,496 ask those questions or what can help make this a successful -950 +949 00:41:27,496 --> 00:41:31,005 -session by having these -- this +session by having these-- this conversation? -951 +950 00:41:32,601 --> 00:41:33,920 David: Well, I like everything you just said, Bekah. All of -952 +951 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:35,239 that -953 +952 00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:39,900 is really important. Asking questions. The faster you ask a -954 +953 00:41:39,900 --> 00:41:42,900 question, the faster you'll find out if the person that you're -955 +954 00:41:43,130 --> 00:41:47,251 pairing with i-is, you know, how they're gonna react to you? And -956 +955 00:41:47,251 --> 00:41:49,471 the faster you'll find out if that's gonna work for you, and -957 +956 00:41:49,471 --> 00:41:52,380 it's gonna be a pairing session that you wanna stick with. Or if -958 +957 00:41:52,380 --> 00:41:54,541 the person's not gonna treat you well, not in a place where they -959 -00:41:54,541 --> 00:41:55,950 +958 +00:41:54,541 --> 00:41:57,359 have the skills to treat you well, and- and you can get out -960 -00:41:55,950 --> 00:41:57,359 -of - -961 +959 00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,100 -there, right? The faster -- it's -all about feedback and +of there, right? The faster-- +it's all about feedback and -962 +960 00:41:59,100 --> 00:42:00,840 shortening -963 +961 00:42:00,846 --> 00:42:02,343 feedback loops. So that's one part of it. It's the faster you -964 +962 00:42:02,343 --> 00:42:03,840 can -965 +963 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:05,310 ask questions, the faster you can say what you know, the -966 +964 00:42:05,310 --> 00:42:06,780 faster -967 +965 00:42:06,780 --> 00:42:08,265 you can say what you don't know -without, you know, with as +without-- you know, with as -968 +966 00:42:08,265 --> 00:42:09,750 little -969 +967 00:42:09,751 --> 00:42:11,618 emotion or ... I mean, we're all emotional people. I don't mean -970 +968 00:42:11,618 --> 00:42:13,485 to -971 +969 00:42:13,485 --> 00:42:17,175 say you have to be abstract. But there's that thing that we do -972 +970 00:42:17,175 --> 00:42:20,000 sometimes ... I've done it when I was learning Indonesian. -973 +971 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,215 I did it. When I was -974 +972 00:42:22,215 --> 00:42:26,476 almost embarrassed to share what I knew, embarrassed to try to -975 +973 00:42:26,476 --> 00:42:29,775 speak in a new language. And I think it's very similar with -976 +974 00:42:29,775 --> 00:42:32,326 technology. If you're not familiar with language or -977 +975 00:42:32,326 --> 00:42:37,456 concepts, it can feel embarrassing to try. But please -978 +976 00:42:37,456 --> 00:42:41,235 -do. The faster you try, and the- +do. The faster you try and the- the faster you take risks, the -979 +977 00:42:41,235 --> 00:42:44,085 faster you'll find out who will -support you in those risks. And- +support you in those risks and- -980 +978 00:42:44,235 --> 00:42:46,096 and how fast you can grow. -981 +979 00:42:46,936 --> 00:42:47,000 Dan: Yeah. -982 +980 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:47,000 Bekah: That's great. -983 +981 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,146 Dan: And I just wanted to add, that- that advice applies not -984 +982 00:42:50,146 --> 00:42:53,235 -just to beginners too. It's -- -it can be embarrassing for me. +just to beginners too. It's-- it +can be embarrassing for me. -985 +983 00:42:53,235 --> 00:42:55,576 I mean, I can feel that embarrassment, you know, trying -986 +984 00:42:55,581 --> 00:42:59,626 new things, and- and- and some hesitancy, and things like -987 +985 00:42:59,626 --> 00:43:01,000 that [chuckles]. So, it's great -advice. I just did -- +advice. I just did-- -988 +986 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:02,865 and it applies to everybody, -989 +987 00:43:02,865 --> 00:43:04,755 and we all go through it. You -know what I mean? So -- +know what I mean? So-- -990 +988 00:43:05,146 --> 00:43:06,226 -David: And we go -- that's +David: And we go-- that's important that you bring up, -991 +989 00:43:06,226 --> 00:43:07,306 Dan. -992 -00:43:07,306 --> 00:43:08,625 +990 +00:43:07,306 --> 00:43:09,944 Cuz we go through it, not just once. It's not just something -993 -00:43:08,625 --> 00:43:09,944 -you - -994 +991 00:43:10,045 --> 00:43:10,500 -go through- +you go through- -995 +992 00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:11,000 Dan: Right, right. -996 +993 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,460 David: -as you're entering your technology career. And -997 +994 00:43:14,460 --> 00:43:17,880 that's why it's so important to get practiced at it. Because you -998 +995 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,780 will experience that throughout your career. Cuz we're always -999 +996 00:43:21,780 --> 00:43:24,840 -learning, and technologies are +learning and technologies are always frame- changing. New -1000 +997 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,311 frameworks, new libraries. You mentioned earlier, a JavaScript -1001 +998 00:43:28,740 --> 00:43:34,380 or a Java developer who was learning Ruby, I think? And ... -1002 -00:43:35,085 --> 00:43:38,175 -when I first started learning Go --- I've programmed C# for years, +999 +00:43:35,085 --> 00:43:36,630 +when I first started learning +Go-- I've programmed C# for -1003 +1000 +00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:38,175 +years, + +1001 00:43:38,175 --> 00:43:39,465 when I first started learning Go, I bang my head against -1004 +1002 00:43:39,465 --> 00:43:40,755 things. It felt -1005 +1003 00:43:40,755 --> 00:43:45,976 awkward, didn't know how to ask questions. I have been known -1006 +1004 00:43:45,976 --> 00:43:48,676 to rant about TypeScript [Bekah chuckles] and Webpack in Virtual -1007 +1005 00:43:48,676 --> 00:43:51,376 Coffee -1008 +1006 00:43:51,376 --> 00:43:57,916 threads. And I kind of laugh as -I do that, because that's me, +I do that because that's me, -1009 +1007 00:43:57,916 --> 00:44:02,925 -where I could- I could write C#, -cold, probably in -- from +where I could-- I could write +C#, cold, probably in-- from -1010 +1008 00:44:02,925 --> 00:44:04,380 -memory, from just having -- -like, I know the syntax so well, +memory, from just having-- like, +I know the syntax so well -1011 +1009 00:44:04,380 --> 00:44:05,835 cuz I've -1012 +1010 00:44:05,835 --> 00:44:08,266 done it so long. And I can't, for the life of me, figure out -1013 +1011 00:44:08,416 --> 00:44:09,766 -Webpack. Or -- +Webpack. Or-- -1014 +1012 00:44:11,311 --> 00:44:13,351 and I struggle with TypeScript bindings. And I was -1015 -00:44:13,351 --> 00:44:14,791 +1013 +00:44:13,351 --> 00:44:16,231 working with JavaScript back -before it was popular. So, you - -1016 -00:44:14,791 --> 00:44:16,231 --- +before it was popular. So, you-- -1017 +1014 00:44:16,621 --> 00:44:19,095 Dan: Nobody understands Webpack, David. [David and Dan laugh] -1018 +1015 00:44:19,095 --> 00:44:21,569 It's okay. -1019 +1016 00:44:21,570 --> 00:44:23,325 David: It's good to have community in that [Bekah -1020 +1017 00:44:23,325 --> 00:44:25,080 chuckles]. But yeah, -1021 +1018 00:44:25,085 --> 00:44:26,732 -every- every time you go to -- +every- every time you go to-- every time I've gone to a new -1022 +1019 00:44:26,732 --> 00:44:28,379 -project +project, -1023 +1020 00:44:28,411 --> 00:44:31,351 -or gone to a new company or +or gone to a new company, or changed jobs, there's that -1024 +1021 00:44:31,351 --> 00:44:32,670 learning curve again. Every time I pair with somebody new, -1025 +1022 00:44:32,670 --> 00:44:33,989 there's -1026 +1023 00:44:33,990 --> 00:44:36,878 that learning curve. I was just banging my head this past -1027 +1024 00:44:36,878 --> 00:44:39,766 weekend -1028 +1025 00:44:39,766 --> 00:44:43,635 against one of the old advent of code problems and feeling like I -1029 +1026 00:44:43,635 --> 00:44:45,795 don't know what I'm doing, you know? And I've been doing this a -1030 +1027 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,826 long time. So by getting comfortable with that feeling -1031 +1028 00:44:48,826 --> 00:44:49,335 is really valuable. -1032 +1029 00:44:49,695 --> 00:44:49,905 Dan: Yeah. -1033 +1030 00:44:50,356 --> 00:44:52,036 David: It's good- good work to practice. -1034 +1031 00:44:53,385 --> 00:44:55,726 Dan: Agreed. Yeah. I'm- I'm digging into TypeScript for -1035 +1032 00:44:55,726 --> 00:44:57,105 really the first time over the last month or two, too. So we -1036 +1033 00:44:57,105 --> 00:44:58,484 -have -- +have-- -1037 -00:44:58,815 --> 00:45:00,435 +1034 +00:44:58,815 --> 00:45:02,055 TypeScript Tuesdays is my little plug. [Laughs] Every Tuesday at -1038 -00:45:00,435 --> 00:45:02,055 -Two - -1039 +1035 00:45:02,056 --> 00:45:05,925 -PM Eastern with Kirk, who is -- -who's like a, you +two PM Eastern with Kirk, who +is-- who's like a, you know-- -1040 +1036 00:45:05,925 --> 00:45:09,525 -know, he's- he's done a lot of --- he- he is a fan of, you know, +he's- he's done a lot of-- he- +he is a fan of, you know, -1041 +1037 00:45:09,525 --> 00:45:13,981 strongly type things. And I have been ... long time not fan of -1042 +1038 00:45:13,981 --> 00:45:16,000 that, so [laughs] ... but some -of it- some of it is +of it-- some of it is -1043 +1039 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:17,940 -avoiding it -- is- is, you +avoiding-- it is- is, you -1044 +1040 00:45:17,945 --> 00:45:20,190 -know, you open -- I open up -- +know, you open-- I open up-- I've been writing JavaScript for -1045 +1041 00:45:20,190 --> 00:45:22,831 20 years. I open up a TypeScript file, and I'm like, "This looks -1046 +1042 00:45:22,831 --> 00:45:24,000 like ... nonsense to me." -1047 +1043 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:29,000 David: A-ha. Thank you [laughs] [clap hands]. -1048 +1044 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,701 -Dan: I can't understand it, and -I close it. But +Dan: I can't understand it and I +close it. But -1049 +1045 00:45:26,701 --> 00:45:29,000 -I -- and I- and I, like, I'm -- +I-- and I-- and I, like, I'm-- in-instead of like -1050 +1046 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,721 digging in or asking -1051 +1047 00:45:30,721 --> 00:45:33,360 questions and making myself, you know, possibly look like I don't -1052 +1048 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,000 know everything, I close it, and run away, and say, -1053 +1049 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:37,351 "TypeScript is dumb [Bekah -chuckles]. It- it's +chuckles]. It-- it's -1054 +1050 00:45:37,356 --> 00:45:39,000 dumb [chuckles]," you know? [David laughs] That's what -1055 +1051 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,010 I've done for the last 10 years or -1056 +1052 00:45:41,016 --> 00:45:44,010 whatever. And so, finally I was like, "Okay. Let's- let's- let's -1057 +1053 00:45:44,010 --> 00:45:45,271 -dig in." And so -- you know what +dig in." And so-- you know what I mean? Yeah. -1058 +1054 00:45:45,496 --> 00:45:48,735 David: Okay. And full on every -time I've ranted about Webpack, +time I've ranted about Webpack -1059 +1055 00:45:48,735 --> 00:45:52,126 or TypeScript, I'm aware that it's because I haven't spent -1060 +1056 00:45:52,126 --> 00:45:52,800 the time to learn it. -1061 +1057 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,000 Dan: [All laugh] Yeah. -1062 +1058 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,272 David: [Laughs] Sometimes it's fun to put on that grumpy old -1063 +1059 00:45:57,272 --> 00:45:58,544 man hat- -1064 +1060 00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:58,545 Dan: Oh, absolutely. -1065 +1061 00:45:58,545 --> 00:45:59,805 David: -and say, "Yeah, I've been programming JavaScript -1066 +1062 00:45:59,805 --> 00:46:01,065 since -1067 +1063 00:46:01,065 --> 00:46:03,000 -before there were types. I don't --- who needs types? +before there were types. I +don't-- who needs types?" -1068 +1064 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:04,246 -[Bekah chuckles] Like, write +[Bekah chuckles] Like, "Write your -1069 +1065 00:46:04,246 --> 00:46:09,000 -angle brackets. I -- whatever -[David and Dan laugh]." No. +angle brackets. I-- whatever." +[David and Dan laugh] No. -1070 +1066 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,106 -It's -- but none of that one -does like -- +It's-- but none of that one +does, like-- -1071 +1067 00:46:11,135 --> 00:46:13,686 really, there's an element of humility that's important to -1072 +1068 00:46:13,686 --> 00:46:15,351 practice in this industry. Because there's so much lack of -1073 +1069 00:46:15,351 --> 00:46:17,016 humility -1074 +1070 00:46:17,315 --> 00:46:20,945 abounds, arrogance abounds, gatekeeping abounds. And -1075 +1071 00:46:20,945 --> 00:46:24,065 anything we can do to be humble with each other and really -1076 +1072 00:46:24,065 --> 00:46:28,445 support each other ... to work together and to grow together -1077 +1073 00:46:28,445 --> 00:46:30,396 is a- a net positive. That's [unintelligible]. -1078 -00:46:30,646 --> 00:46:32,476 +1074 +00:46:30,646 --> 00:46:34,306 Dan: Yeah. Yeah. And- and I think a lot of that arrogance, -1079 -00:46:32,476 --> 00:46:34,306 -and - -1080 +1075 00:46:34,786 --> 00:46:38,985 -gatekeeping, and some -- i-i-is- -is because -- the root +and gatekeeping, and some-- +i-i-is- is because-- the root -1081 +1076 00:46:38,985 --> 00:46:40,000 cause of it is insecurity, right? -1082 +1077 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:40,000 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -1083 +1078 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,530 -Dan: And- and not wanting to- -not wanting to look ... dumber. +Dan: And- and not wanting to-- +not wanting to look ... dumber, -1084 +1079 00:46:43,530 --> 00:46:44,985 -Look like you don't know things +look like you don't know things [chuckles]. And I've- I've -1085 +1080 00:46:44,985 --> 00:46:46,440 fallen in -1086 +1081 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,030 -that trap. I- I try, like -- I +that trap. I- I try, like-- I don't- I don't know. Maybe I- I -1087 +1082 00:46:48,030 --> 00:46:49,620 haven't- -1088 +1083 00:46:49,650 --> 00:46:52,170 haven't noticed. But I- I don't -usually -- for me it doesn't +usually-- for me it doesn't -1089 +1084 00:46:52,231 --> 00:46:55,021 manifest as gatekeeping, hopefully, or things like -1090 +1085 00:46:55,021 --> 00:46:56,476 that. It just manifests me avoiding topics [chuckles]. I -1091 +1086 00:46:56,476 --> 00:46:57,931 -don't wanna- I +don't wanna-- I -1092 +1087 00:46:57,931 --> 00:46:59,115 -don't wanna, you know, learn or -don't know or whatever, you +don't wanna, you know, learn, or +don't know, or whatever, you -1093 +1088 00:46:59,115 --> 00:47:00,299 know? -1094 +1089 00:47:00,331 --> 00:47:06,811 And that practicing humility and practicing ... admitting or- -1095 +1090 00:47:06,811 --> 00:47:10,666 or, you know, being public about not knowing things is- is been -1096 +1091 00:47:10,666 --> 00:47:12,556 something I've been personally working on for the last couple -1097 +1092 00:47:12,556 --> 00:47:15,000 -years. And- and it's -- and it -feels good once you- +years. And- and it's-- and it +feels good once you-- -1098 +1093 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:15,585 [chuckles] once you turn the -1099 +1094 00:47:15,585 --> 00:47:18,135 corner. Once you realize it -doesn't actually like- +doesn't actually, like- -1100 +1095 00:47:18,135 --> 00:47:18,195 David: No. -1101 +1096 00:47:18,195 --> 00:47:21,000 -Dan: -you know, hurt to not -know, literally, everything +Dan: -you know, hurt to not know +literally everything -1102 +1097 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:22,005 in the world [laughs]. -1103 +1098 00:47:22,365 --> 00:47:23,835 -Bekah: What I will say too, one +Bekah: What I will say, too, one of the greatest learning -1104 +1099 00:47:23,835 --> 00:47:25,305 experiences -1105 +1100 00:47:25,306 --> 00:47:29,806 I've had over the past couple years is watching conversations -1106 +1101 00:47:29,806 --> 00:47:34,096 in Slack between people who I see as experts in the field -1107 +1102 00:47:34,246 --> 00:47:37,335 asking each other questions, right? Like, "Oh, okay. This is -1108 +1103 00:47:37,340 --> 00:47:39,766 how you ask that question." Or, you know, "They don't know -1109 -00:47:39,766 --> 00:47:41,821 +1104 +00:47:39,766 --> 00:47:43,876 everything." And that does help provide more of an awareness -1110 -00:47:41,821 --> 00:47:43,876 -that - -1111 +1105 00:47:43,965 --> 00:47:45,615 -I can ask those questions too. +that I can ask those questions +too. -1112 +1106 00:47:47,130 --> 00:47:48,345 -David: Hmm. That reminds me. I -wanna go back to that -- a part +David: Hmm. That reminds me I +wanna go back to that-- a part -1113 +1107 00:47:48,345 --> 00:47:49,560 of the -1114 +1108 00:47:49,561 --> 00:47:51,900 question that you asked, Bekah, that we didn't really address. -1115 +1109 00:47:51,900 --> 00:47:55,080 Which is what makes a good -question. And ... [clear throat] +question. And ... -1116 +1110 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,260 -if you think +[clears throat] if you think -1117 +1111 00:47:58,260 --> 00:48:00,810 about everything we've been talking about, the faster you -1118 +1112 00:48:00,810 --> 00:48:03,360 can -1119 +1113 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,705 help somebody ... acclimatize to how to speak to you, the faster -1120 +1114 00:48:06,705 --> 00:48:10,050 you'll -1121 +1115 00:48:10,050 --> 00:48:13,141 get your question answered. And so how do you do that? You learn -1122 +1116 00:48:13,141 --> 00:48:16,860 to add more detail in the question, which is like your -1123 +1117 00:48:16,860 --> 00:48:20,010 initial offering to somebody. When you're asking somebody for -1124 +1118 00:48:20,010 --> 00:48:23,911 help, the more you can put into that question to say, "I thought -1125 +1119 00:48:23,911 --> 00:48:26,296 -about this," "I tried this," -"Here's the command I used," +about this." "I tried this." +"Here's the command I used." -1126 +1120 00:48:26,296 --> 00:48:28,681 "Here's -1127 +1121 00:48:28,681 --> 00:48:33,181 the output that I got." Like, the more language that you use, -1128 +1122 00:48:33,181 --> 00:48:35,550 often it's a better question. Because you're giving somebody -1129 +1123 00:48:35,550 --> 00:48:37,335 more context and the ability to understand better where you're -1130 +1124 00:48:37,335 --> 00:48:39,120 -at, +at -1131 +1125 00:48:39,601 --> 00:48:43,561 and what you're really dealing with. I- I get questions in my -1132 +1126 00:48:43,561 --> 00:48:45,031 job. Sometimes I get questions like, "The integration -1133 +1127 00:48:45,031 --> 00:48:46,501 environment -1134 +1128 00:48:46,505 --> 00:48:48,000 is down." [Bekah and Dan chuckle] And I look at that, -1135 +1129 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:52,447 and I say, "Okay, thank you -[chuckles]." [Cough] The +[chuckles]." [Coughs] The -1136 +1130 00:48:52,447 --> 00:48:59,257 integration environment where I -work has probably like 75 +work has probably, like, 75 -1137 +1131 00:48:59,257 --> 00:49:01,116 -microservices or more, across -- +microservices or more, across-- like, grouped into several -1138 +1132 00:49:01,116 --> 00:49:02,975 different -1139 +1133 00:49:02,976 --> 00:49:04,491 applications. And so, integration is down could mean -1140 +1134 00:49:04,491 --> 00:49:06,006 any number of -1141 +1135 00:49:06,007 --> 00:49:08,346 -things. Are -- is that a -- is --- are you getting an- an +things. Are-- is that a-- is-- +are you getting an- an -1142 +1136 00:49:08,346 --> 00:49:10,685 authentication -1143 +1137 00:49:10,686 --> 00:49:14,347 -error? Is that a, you know, do +error? Is that a, you know-- do you have an HTTP status code you -1144 +1138 00:49:14,347 --> 00:49:17,496 -can share? Do you have -- can -you tell me what application was +can share? Do you have-- can you +tell me what application was -1145 +1139 00:49:17,496 --> 00:49:20,586 trying to call what application? Can you tell me what was the -1146 +1140 00:49:20,586 --> 00:49:22,339 actual response you got? What was compared to the expected -1147 +1141 00:49:22,339 --> 00:49:24,092 response -1148 +1142 00:49:24,092 --> 00:49:26,581 you got? Can you tell me what language you're working in? Can -1149 +1143 00:49:26,581 --> 00:49:29,222 you tell me what version of the language you're working in? Can -1150 +1144 00:49:29,222 --> 00:49:31,831 you tell me what libraries and tools you're using that might be -1151 +1145 00:49:31,836 --> 00:49:35,431 relevant? You know, all of that detail is helpful. Partly cuz it -1152 +1146 00:49:35,431 --> 00:49:39,092 teaches the people who might answer your question what -1153 +1147 00:49:39,097 --> 00:49:41,942 -language they can use with you, +language they can use with you because you're exposing what -1154 +1148 00:49:41,942 --> 00:49:46,882 language you know. And it's also giving people more ... detail to -1155 +1149 00:49:46,882 --> 00:49:48,366 hang onto. There are problems that I can solve. And I have -1156 +1150 00:49:48,366 --> 00:49:49,850 done -1157 +1151 00:49:49,851 --> 00:49:52,911 in our Virtual Coffee's Slack, where just seeing the error -1158 +1152 00:49:52,911 --> 00:49:55,311 message reminds me of something I've already seen. And I can -1159 +1153 00:49:55,311 --> 00:49:58,041 point somebody without even needing to be at a computer or -1160 +1154 00:49:58,041 --> 00:50:01,461 look at their screen. I can at least offer a few keywords or -1161 +1155 00:50:01,461 --> 00:50:04,132 -say, "Go try this," or, "Go try +say, "Go try this," or, "go try that," you know? And sometimes -1162 +1156 00:50:04,132 --> 00:50:06,000 that's enough to unblock somebody. But if- -1163 +1157 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:06,000 Dan: Absolutely. -1164 +1158 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,000 David: -if the person who asked the question didn't -1165 +1159 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:12,981 include the actual error message, then -1166 +1160 00:50:12,987 --> 00:50:15,264 I've seen also where that can turn into a thread of 55 -1167 +1161 00:50:15,264 --> 00:50:17,541 messages long -1168 +1162 00:50:17,541 --> 00:50:20,000 with people talking past each other. So- -1169 +1163 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:20,000 Bekah: Yeah. -1170 +1164 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,000 David: -as somebody who wants to ask a question, I don't -1171 +1165 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,461 expect you to have solved the problem. -1172 +1166 00:50:25,641 --> 00:50:28,461 It's not this idea that, you know, "Don't come to me with -1173 +1167 00:50:28,461 --> 00:50:30,742 problems. Only come to me with solutions." Like, it's not that -1174 +1168 00:50:30,862 --> 00:50:36,202 business. Not at all. But it's ... share with me what you've -1175 +1169 00:50:36,202 --> 00:50:37,000 already thought about. -1176 +1170 00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:38,000 Dan: Totally. -1177 +1171 00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,407 David: And share with me as much detail as you can about -1178 +1172 00:50:41,407 --> 00:50:44,226 what you know and what you don't know. About the problem that -1179 +1173 00:50:44,226 --> 00:50:49,777 you're asking. Cuz that will help me learn ... where you're -1180 +1174 00:50:49,777 --> 00:50:52,146 struggling and how to speak to you about it. -1181 +1175 00:50:53,016 --> 00:50:55,597 Bekah: Yeah. Thank you so much for being here with us today, -1182 +1176 00:50:55,597 --> 00:50:58,626 David. This was just fantastic. I feel like we could have done -1183 +1177 00:50:58,806 --> 00:51:00,366 three hours worth of this conversation. But I do -1184 +1178 00:51:00,366 --> 00:51:01,926 appreciate -1185 +1179 00:51:01,927 --> 00:51:05,586 your time and thanks for helping us to kick off our new -1186 +1180 00:51:05,586 --> 00:51:05,786 season. -1187 +1181 00:51:06,501 --> 00:51:07,461 David: Oh, my pleasure. -1188 +1182 00:51:08,092 --> 00:51:13,494 Dan: Yeah. Thank you, David. Thank you for listening to this -1189 +1183 00:51:13,494 --> 00:51:16,900 episode of the Virtual Coffee podcast. This episode was -1190 +1184 00:51:16,900 --> 00:51:19,780 produced by Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel. If you have -1191 +1185 00:51:19,780 --> 00:51:21,880 questions or comments, you can hit us up on Twitter at -1192 +1186 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,084 -VirtualCoffeeIO, or email us at +VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You -1193 +1187 00:51:24,084 --> 00:51:26,288 can -1194 +1188 00:51:26,289 --> 00:51:28,659 find the show notes, sign up for the newsletter, check out any of -1195 +1189 00:51:28,659 --> 00:51:31,900 our other resources on our website, virtualcoffee.io. If -1196 +1190 00:51:31,900 --> 00:51:34,179 you're interested in sponsoring Virtual Coffee, you can find out -1197 +1191 00:51:34,179 --> 00:51:37,960 more information on our website at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. -1198 +1192 00:51:38,380 --> 00:51:40,134 Please subscribe to our podcast and be sure to leave us a -1199 +1193 00:51:40,134 --> 00:51:41,888 review. -1200 +1194 00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,139 Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week! \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/episodes/6_2.srt b/episodes/6_2.srt index f4b65ac..881aa8c 100644 --- a/episodes/6_2.srt +++ b/episodes/6_2.srt @@ -9,7 +9,7 @@ of the 3 00:00:10,019 --> 00:00:12,574 -Virtual Coffee podcast. I'm +Virtual Coffee Podcast. I'm Bekah. And this is a podcast 4 @@ -36,163 +36,163 @@ coding journey. And they're here, on this podcast, sharing 9 -00:00:23,334 --> 00:00:24,789 -their - -10 -00:00:24,789 --> 00:00:26,304 -stories and what they've +00:00:23,334 --> 00:00:26,304 +their stories and what they've learned. And we are here to -11 +10 00:00:26,304 --> 00:00:27,819 share it with -12 +11 00:00:27,820 --> 00:00:31,359 you. Here with me today is my co-host, Dan. -13 +12 00:00:32,609 --> 00:00:34,299 Dan Ott: Hello! How is it going, Bekah? -14 +13 00:00:34,914 --> 00:00:36,994 Bekah: It is going fabulous. -15 +14 00:00:37,765 --> 00:00:39,465 Dan: That's so much less -satisfying to say than, 'Waddup, +satisfying to say than, "Waddup, -16 +15 00:00:39,465 --> 00:00:41,000 -Bek.' [Bekah laughs] I think I'm +Bek." [Bekah laughs] I think I'm just gonna start saying that in -17 +16 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:41,664 every episode [laughs]. -18 +17 00:00:42,085 --> 00:00:43,884 Bekah: Fine. It's fine. That's cool. -19 +18 00:00:45,054 --> 00:00:49,314 -Dan: Anyway, yes. Today we have +Dan: Anyway, yes. Today, we have another, you know, -20 +19 00:00:49,314 --> 00:00:51,984 -awesome, obviously, guest. -Bogdan -- +awesome—obviously—guest. +Bogdan-- -21 +20 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:52,000 Bekah: The theme- theme for- -22 +21 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:53,000 Dan: Yes. -23 +22 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,325 Bekah: -Season 6 is awesomeness. -24 +23 00:00:54,835 --> 00:00:56,000 Dan: Yes. And really, for all seasons, honestly. -25 +24 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,000 Bekah: Every [humming]. -26 +25 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,677 -Dan: But yeah, we have Bogdan +Dan: But-- yeah, we have Bogdan Covrig here. He is a software -27 +26 00:01:00,677 --> 00:01:03,354 developer from -28 +27 00:01:03,354 --> 00:01:05,874 The Netherlands, and he ... I -don't know. Yeah, he- he -- it +don't know. Yeah, he- he-- it -29 +28 00:01:05,874 --> 00:01:08,394 was really -30 +29 00:01:08,394 --> 00:01:11,754 great to have him on. He- he -just finished school, like last +just finished school, like, last -31 +30 00:01:11,754 --> 00:01:14,754 year, sometime, right? Or this year? Last year? I don't know. -32 +31 00:01:14,754 --> 00:01:15,265 Recently. In ... The ... Nether- -... lands -- +... lands-- -33 +32 00:01:15,730 --> 00:01:17,319 Bekah: Time has not exist over -the last two years. So -- +the last two years. So-- -34 +33 00:01:17,504 --> 00:01:21,715 Dan: No. Yeah. Yeah. No, I have no idea. But he talks -35 +34 00:01:21,715 --> 00:01:23,424 about that. He talks about experience in school, go -36 +35 00:01:23,424 --> 00:01:27,055 through school, and- and then, you know, his experiences as -37 +36 00:01:27,055 --> 00:01:28,480 developer, and it was really fun. Really- really good talking -38 +37 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:29,905 to him. -39 +38 00:01:30,594 --> 00:01:34,105 Bekah: It's always interesting to think about the journeys that -40 +39 00:01:34,105 --> 00:01:38,694 people take to get them to the -roles that they're in. And so I +roles that they're in. And so, I + +40 +00:01:38,694 --> 00:01:40,494 +think, Bogdan is one of the +first people or one of the few 41 -00:01:38,694 --> 00:01:42,295 -think Bogdan is one of the first -people, or one of the few people +00:01:40,494 --> 00:01:42,294 +people 42 00:01:42,295 --> 00:01:47,140 that we've talked to who's been -an educator, as in like, in a +an educator, as in, like, in a 43 00:01:47,140 --> 00:01:51,000 @@ -209,69 +209,69 @@ Bekah: -to hear what that was like and what he learned from 46 -00:01:54,005 --> 00:01:57,010 -that experience that +00:01:54,005 --> 00:01:57,760 +that experience that brought him +to where he is right now. 47 -00:01:57,015 --> 00:01:57,760 -brought him to where he is right -now. - -48 00:02:00,504 --> 00:02:01,509 Dan: Yeah, totally. I mean, I was very curious to hear about -49 +48 00:02:01,509 --> 00:02:02,514 that. -50 +49 00:02:02,515 --> 00:02:04,825 And I did some computer science -in s- in-in school, and in +in s- in-in school and in -51 +50 00:02:04,825 --> 00:02:07,135 college, -52 +51 00:02:07,704 --> 00:02:11,425 and it was a long time ago. And ... I don't know, I was curious -53 +52 00:02:11,425 --> 00:02:12,850 -to see -- hear about -- I'm also +to see-- hear about-- I'm also just curious to hear about what -54 +53 00:02:12,850 --> 00:02:14,275 it's -55 +54 00:02:14,275 --> 00:02:17,830 like in a classroom right now as -a developer, as, you know, in a- +a developer, as-- you know, in -56 +55 00:02:17,830 --> 00:02:19,494 -in a college classroom, as -opposed to bootcamps, and things +a- in a college classroom, as +opposed to bootcamps and things -57 +56 00:02:19,494 --> 00:02:21,158 like -58 +57 00:02:21,159 --> 00:02:26,349 that. And ... yeah. And- and -also, I don't know. The idea of +also-- I don't know. The idea of + +58 +00:02:26,354 --> 00:02:27,612 +teaching is just, like, so +beyond anything I've ever done, 59 -00:02:26,354 --> 00:02:28,870 -teaching is just like so beyond -anything I've ever done, like, +00:02:27,612 --> 00:02:28,870 +like, 60 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,479 @@ -280,8 +280,8 @@ of worth of classes, you know? 61 00:02:32,259 --> 00:02:33,909 -I -- although, I don't know. I -was curious about it and so it +I-- although-- I don't know. I +was curious about it, and so it 62 00:02:33,909 --> 00:02:35,559 @@ -299,12 +299,12 @@ process that he went through as 65 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:40,240 -he was +he was trying 66 00:02:40,659 --> 00:02:44,919 -trying to figure out like what's -next for him in his career path. +to figure out, like, what's next +for him in his career path. 67 00:02:46,569 --> 00:02:50,710 @@ -353,7 +353,7 @@ don't have a super favorite. 76 00:03:33,866 --> 00:03:36,851 -I- I'd say -- so there's this +I- I'd say-- so, there's this taco place in ... near where I 77 @@ -362,32 +362,32 @@ live, 78 00:03:40,406 --> 00:03:44,366 -called ... what -- Bombas. And -they -- so when you +called ... what-- Bombas. And +they-- so when you 79 00:03:44,366 --> 00:03:46,076 -could -- they have this, like, -sauce. And you can -- when you +could-- they have this, like, +sauce. And you can-- when you 80 00:03:46,076 --> 00:03:47,786 -order like +order, like, a 81 00:03:47,786 --> 00:03:50,545 -a taco box to go, you know, like -this, like a family box or +taco box to go, you know, like, +this-- like, a family box or 82 00:03:50,545 --> 00:03:53,605 -whatever, they'll give you just -like a whole- like a whole thing +whatever, they'll give you just, +like, a whole-- like, a whole 83 00:03:53,605 --> 00:03:55,000 -of it. A whole like bottle of -it. +thing of it. A whole, like, +bottle of it. 84 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:56,000 @@ -395,18 +395,18 @@ Bekah: Yes. 85 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:59,000 -Dan: And I -- when we do that, -I- I use it for like the next +Dan: And I-- when we do that, I- +I use it for, like, the next 86 00:04:59,000 --> 00:04:59,001 -two weeks and -- on the, like, +two weeks and-- on the, like, everything. So I- I 87 00:04:01,411 --> 00:04:02,518 can't really describe it. I -think -- it has garlic in it, +think-- it has garlic in it, 88 00:04:02,518 --> 00:04:03,625 @@ -414,7 +414,7 @@ certainly. I 89 00:04:03,626 --> 00:04:06,566 -don't -- it maybe some sort of +don't-- it maybe some sort of aioli maybe? I don't- I don't 90 @@ -458,7 +458,7 @@ like 98 00:04:21,790 --> 00:04:22,990 the mystery of it, you know what -I mean? It's just like this +I mean? It's just, like, this 99 00:04:22,990 --> 00:04:24,190 @@ -475,6508 +475,6326 @@ we'll order, you know, those tacos again, and it'll be back 102 -00:04:28,092 --> 00:04:29,379 -to +00:04:28,092 --> 00:04:32,531 +to my life. I don't wanna have +the mys- like, maybe it's just 103 -00:04:29,386 --> 00:04:32,531 -my life. I don't wanna have the -mys- like, maybe it's just - -104 00:04:32,531 --> 00:04:35,471 some chunky thing that they buy -off -- it probably is [chuckles] +off-- it probably is [chuckles] -105 +104 00:04:35,831 --> 00:04:37,690 something that I could just buy at the grocery store, you know? -106 +105 00:04:37,901 --> 00:04:38,680 -But I don't wanna know. It was --- +But I don't wanna know. It was-- -107 +106 00:04:39,295 --> 00:04:40,485 Bekah: Is it like mayonnaise-y? -108 +107 00:04:42,161 --> 00:04:43,240 -Dan: I don't know. It's -- +Dan: I don't know. It's-- -109 +108 00:04:43,255 --> 00:04:44,185 Bekah: Does it need refrigerated? -110 +109 00:04:44,185 --> 00:04:44,831 Bogdan Covrig: Meal [chuckles]. -111 +110 00:04:44,831 --> 00:04:46,090 Dan: I mean, I put it in the -refrigerator. I don't -- I +refrigerator. I don't-- I -112 +111 00:04:46,090 --> 00:04:47,349 assume. -113 +112 00:04:47,350 --> 00:04:49,345 I don't- I don't ... I don't know. Why would you have an open -114 +113 00:04:49,345 --> 00:04:51,340 bottle of -115 +114 00:04:51,341 --> 00:04:53,290 some sort of sauce that you didn't put in the refrigerator? -116 +115 00:04:53,935 --> 00:04:55,615 Bekah: Hot sauce doesn't go in the refrigerator. -117 +116 00:04:55,961 --> 00:04:57,040 -Dan: It doesn't? We keep ours -- +Dan: It doesn't? We keep ours-- -118 +117 00:04:57,055 --> 00:04:58,286 Bogdan: Some do. I feel like some do, right? -119 +118 00:04:58,451 --> 00:05:00,000 Dan: Yeah. I don't- I don't know. Well, like- -120 +119 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:02,000 -Bekah: You need it to hide -- +Bekah: You need it to hide-- -121 +120 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:02,471 Dan: -Tabasco. Do you put -Tabasco in the -- +Tabasco in the-- -122 +121 00:05:03,391 --> 00:05:04,000 Bekah: No. I don't think it needs to be- -123 +122 00:05:03,500 --> 00:05:04,000 Bogdan: I do [??]. -124 +123 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:04,000 Dan: Really? -125 +124 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:05,867 Bekah: -there's a lot of vinegar in it and that doesn't need to -126 +125 00:05:05,867 --> 00:05:07,734 be refrigerated. -127 +126 00:05:08,365 --> 00:05:09,460 Dan: Huh. We had these refrigerator talks before. I- I -128 +127 00:05:09,460 --> 00:05:10,555 don't know the -129 +128 00:05:10,555 --> 00:05:12,685 rules. So I just assume everything goes in because it -130 +129 00:05:12,685 --> 00:05:13,646 seems safer to me [Bogdan chuckles]- -131 +130 00:05:14,641 --> 00:05:15,415 Bekah: Tomatoes do not go in the refrigerator. They still do not. -132 +131 00:05:15,446 --> 00:05:16,745 Dan: -you know? Right. This is -what I'm saying. I don't -- I- I +what I'm saying. I don't-- I- I -133 +132 00:05:16,745 --> 00:05:18,044 -know -- I- I +know-- I- I -134 +133 00:05:18,050 --> 00:05:19,073 don't have the knowledge to argue with you about it. But I -135 +134 00:05:19,073 --> 00:05:20,096 just put -136 +135 00:05:20,096 --> 00:05:22,346 things in the fridge because that always seems like the safer -137 +136 00:05:22,346 --> 00:05:24,026 option, you know what I mean? To me. -138 +137 00:05:24,790 --> 00:05:26,831 Bogdan: Do you- do you put your oil in the fridge? -139 +138 00:05:27,295 --> 00:05:27,805 Dan: No! -140 +139 00:05:27,295 --> 00:05:27,805 Bekah: No! -141 +140 00:05:28,031 --> 00:05:28,391 Bogdan: Yeah. That would be weird. -142 +141 00:05:28,031 --> 00:05:29,538 Dan: No, no. All right. Yeah, that- that'd be weird. I -143 +142 00:05:29,538 --> 00:05:31,045 actually had a -144 +143 00:05:31,045 --> 00:05:35,485 friend ... Emily's brother actually, like, got in -145 +144 00:05:35,485 --> 00:05:37,435 the habit of keeping his cereal, -like in the fridge. Because he- +like, in the fridge. Because he- -146 +145 00:05:37,435 --> 00:05:39,385 he -147 +146 00:05:39,386 --> 00:05:41,171 -said it- it kept it -- like, it +said it- it kept it-- like, it would not go stale as- as fast, -148 -00:05:41,171 --> 00:05:42,956 -you know? - -149 -00:05:42,956 --> 00:05:43,000 -It would stay fresh longer. +147 +00:05:41,171 --> 00:05:43,000 +you know? It would stay fresh +longer. -150 +148 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,000 Bekah: How long do you keep this cereal [chuckles]? -151 +149 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:47,000 Dan: I don't know. I mean, he's just like liv- living alone, you -152 +150 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:48,000 know? -153 +151 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,115 -And like ... I don't know. But +And, like ... I don't know. But, like, we went on -154 +152 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:52,617 vacation altogether at this little cottage with this tiny -155 +153 00:05:52,617 --> 00:05:54,114 -fridge, and +fridge and -156 +154 00:05:54,115 --> 00:05:55,975 the whole f-fridge was full of cereal [laughs]. We were like, -157 +155 00:05:55,975 --> 00:05:57,835 "No, no. This -158 +156 00:05:57,836 --> 00:05:59,530 -is not like -- this is not a -- -this is not -- we're putting +is not like-- this is not a-- +this is not-- we're putting -159 +157 00:05:59,530 --> 00:06:01,224 this in the -160 +158 00:06:01,225 --> 00:06:04,188 cabinet." That's where I draw the line. Cereal ... doesn't go -161 +159 00:06:04,188 --> 00:06:07,151 in the fridge. -162 +160 00:06:06,055 --> 00:06:07,735 -Bekah: That's -- I'm glad +Bekah: That's-- I'm glad [chuckles] you draw the line -163 +161 00:06:07,735 --> 00:06:09,415 there. -164 +162 00:06:10,151 --> 00:06:12,281 -Dan: Oil? Yeah, yeah -- no. I- I -knew -- I know enough not to put +Dan: Oil? Yeah, yeah-- no. I- I +knew-- I know enough not to put -165 +163 00:06:12,281 --> 00:06:16,091 oil in the fridge. Other than that ... I'll put things in the -166 -00:06:16,091 --> 00:06:17,396 +164 +00:06:16,091 --> 00:06:18,701 fridge, and then sometimes Emily will say, "Hey, that doesn't go -167 -00:06:17,396 --> 00:06:18,701 -in - -168 -00:06:18,701 --> 00:06:20,620 -the fridge, dummy." And I'm +165 +00:06:17,396 --> 00:06:20,620 +in the fridge, dummy." And I'm like, "Okay [chuckles]. Fair -169 +166 00:06:20,620 --> 00:06:22,539 enough." But this -170 +167 00:06:22,540 --> 00:06:23,725 sauce, I don't wanna know whether it does or not, you know -171 +168 00:06:23,725 --> 00:06:24,910 what I -172 +169 00:06:24,911 --> 00:06:26,620 mean? Cuz I don't wanna know anything about it. That's my -173 +170 00:06:26,625 --> 00:06:28,180 point. So I'm just putting it in the fridge. -174 +171 00:06:28,286 --> 00:06:29,935 Bekah: You don't wanna know about it. That's weird. -175 +172 00:06:30,011 --> 00:06:32,711 Dan: Hey, it's a mystery. No, I -like it. I like -- it tastes- +like it. I like-- it tastes- -176 +173 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,000 Bekah: I don't like the dressing [??]. -177 +174 00:06:32,711 --> 00:06:34,855 Dan: -very good. I feel like if -I learn about it, something will - -178 -00:06:34,855 --> 00:06:36,999 --- it'll +I learn about it, something -179 -00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:38,680 -become ... less good [laughs]. +175 +00:06:34,855 --> 00:06:38,680 +will-- it'll become ... less +good [laughs]. -180 +176 00:06:39,444 --> 00:06:41,124 Bogdan: Or you'll be- be disgusted by it. -181 +177 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:42,000 -Bekah: Alright, Bogdan [laughs] --- +Bekah: Alright, Bogdan +[laughs]-- -182 +178 00:06:43,139 --> 00:06:44,338 Dan: But, I mean, that is- that -is a very serious -- that, I +is a very serious-- that-- I -183 +179 00:06:44,338 --> 00:06:45,537 mean, that -184 +180 00:06:45,543 --> 00:06:47,000 is an actual possibility too. I don't- I don't want that to- -185 +181 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,509 to happen either [laughs]. Alright, I'm done. -186 +182 00:06:51,509 --> 00:06:55,588 Bogdan: Okay. Hello, everybody. I am Bogdan. I'm from -187 +183 00:06:55,588 --> 00:06:57,793 Romania, but I am a software -engineer in The Netherlands. +engineer in the Netherlands. -188 +184 00:06:57,793 --> 00:06:59,998 I've -189 +185 00:06:59,999 --> 00:07:03,869 been living here for almost five years, moved from a tiny city in -190 +186 00:07:03,874 --> 00:07:05,806 Romania to a tiny [chuckles] -city in The Netherlands. And I +city in the Netherlands. And I -191 +187 00:07:05,806 --> 00:07:07,738 like it. -192 +188 00:07:07,918 --> 00:07:13,053 And I don't wanna leave. And I -think -- are we talking about +think-- are we talking about -193 +189 00:07:13,053 --> 00:07:15,084 -sauces -- sauce or condiments? +sauces-- sauce or condiments? -194 +190 00:07:16,379 --> 00:07:20,848 Bekah: Well, I considers some -sauce as a condiment, so -- +sauce as a condiment, so-- -195 +191 00:07:20,968 --> 00:07:21,238 Bogdan: Okay. -196 +192 00:07:21,269 --> 00:07:21,704 Dan: Oh, oh, like, wait, wait. Pasta- pasta sauces are not -197 +193 00:07:21,704 --> 00:07:22,139 condiment, right? -198 +194 00:07:22,218 --> 00:07:23,399 Bogdan: No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it. -199 +195 00:07:24,658 --> 00:07:25,439 Bekah: Yeah. Pasta sauce, it -doesn't count -- +doesn't count-- -200 +196 00:07:26,189 --> 00:07:27,958 Bogdan: No, no, no, I get it. I -was just -- yeah. Cuz one of the +was just-- yeah. Cuz one of the -201 +197 00:07:27,958 --> 00:07:29,727 best -202 +198 00:07:29,728 --> 00:07:33,119 thing that I discovered and ch- absolutely changed my life, my -203 +199 00:07:33,119 --> 00:07:38,084 -friends got me like this jar of -Chipotle pepper or whatever. +friends got me, like, this jar +of Chipotle pepper or whatever. -204 +200 00:07:38,384 --> 00:07:41,053 I don't know how it works. I -don't know how -- i-i-it's just +don't know how-- i-i-it's just -205 +201 00:07:41,053 --> 00:07:43,078 amazing. Cuz then I put it in absolutely [chuckles] -206 -00:07:43,078 --> 00:07:45,103 +202 +00:07:43,078 --> 00:07:46,000 +everything. I mean, not everything. -207 -00:07:45,103 --> 00:07:46,000 -I mean, not everything. - -208 +203 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:46,000 Dan: Nice. -209 -00:07:47,533 --> 00:07:48,266 -Bogdan: Ev- like everything that -goes with like tomato sauce or +204 +00:07:47,533 --> 00:07:47,899 +Bogdan: Ev- like, everything +that goes with, like, tomato -210 +205 +00:07:47,899 --> 00:07:48,265 +sauce or + +206 00:07:48,266 --> 00:07:48,999 tomatoes, I just- -211 +207 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:49,000 Dan: Yeah. -212 +208 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,502 Bogdan: -pour some of those and -it's just amazing. Like the +it's just amazing. Like, the -213 +209 00:07:52,502 --> 00:07:55,004 smokey, everything. -214 +210 00:07:55,004 --> 00:07:56,264 So, yeah. But otherwise, it's -got -- like, usually it's got -- +got-- like, usually it's got-- -215 +211 00:07:56,264 --> 00:07:57,524 -like garlic goes into +like, garlic goes into -216 +212 00:07:57,524 --> 00:07:59,653 -everything, and then -- +everything, and then-- -217 +213 00:07:59,689 --> 00:08:01,033 Dan: I mean, garlic's delicious. Yeah. -218 +214 00:08:01,244 --> 00:08:03,793 Bogdan: Yeah. And smoked paprika also. Like, if there's something -219 +215 00:08:03,793 --> 00:08:05,653 that needs to be sp- I don't know, smoked stuff, it's amazing -220 -00:08:05,653 --> 00:08:07,513 -[chuckles]. - -221 -00:08:07,514 --> 00:08:08,593 -And garlic as well. So, yeah. +216 +00:08:05,653 --> 00:08:08,593 +[chuckles]. And garlic as well. +So, yeah. -222 +217 00:08:10,603 --> 00:08:12,913 Dan: I like it. I almost said- I -almost said -- +almost said-- -223 +218 00:08:12,913 --> 00:08:14,338 Bekah: I think all those things in a sauce together would be -224 +219 00:08:14,338 --> 00:08:15,763 great. -225 +220 00:08:15,764 --> 00:08:15,764 Dan: Yeah. -226 +221 00:08:15,764 --> 00:08:17,338 Bogdan: I think, yeah. But I -have -- I- I mean, I have to +have-- I- I mean, I have to -227 +222 00:08:17,338 --> 00:08:18,912 agree, -228 +223 00:08:18,913 --> 00:08:23,533 -like, with Dan's friend, like -living alone, like, it just -- +like, with Dan's friend, like, +living alone, like, it just-- -229 +224 00:08:24,269 --> 00:08:26,414 -there's -- there are no rules. I +there's-- there are no rules. I ... you know? [Bogdan and Dan -230 +225 00:08:26,414 --> 00:08:28,559 Laugh] I do what I want. I put -231 +226 00:08:28,564 --> 00:08:30,016 everything where I want. And also, I'm the only one that -232 +227 00:08:30,016 --> 00:08:31,468 needs to -233 +228 00:08:31,468 --> 00:08:34,000 know where it's placed. So, -yeah. I don't put my -- +yeah. I don't put my-- -234 +229 00:08:32,999 --> 00:08:36,006 Bekah: So, do- do you put your Chipotle ... condiment in the -235 +230 00:08:36,006 --> 00:08:39,013 refrigerator? -236 +231 00:08:40,769 --> 00:08:42,658 Bogdan: I do. But I'm not sure if I have- have to? I don't -237 +232 00:08:42,658 --> 00:08:44,547 think it's -238 +233 00:08:44,548 --> 00:08:46,843 forbidden, right [laughs]? But I -just -- I- I- I was just -- it +just-- I- I- I was just-- it -239 +234 00:08:46,843 --> 00:08:49,138 keeps me sane. Cuz -240 +235 00:08:49,139 --> 00:08:51,494 I had a ti- I had a tiny Tabasco -bottles, but like, I feel like +bottles, but, like-- I feel like -241 +236 00:08:51,494 --> 00:08:53,849 the -242 +237 00:08:53,849 --> 00:08:56,234 vinegar goes up, and then I try to shake it, and it doesn't. And -243 +238 00:08:56,234 --> 00:08:58,619 then -244 +239 00:08:58,619 --> 00:09:00,223 -it's all you -- vinegary, and I +it's all you-- vinegary, and I don't like it. So I keep it in -245 -00:09:00,223 --> 00:09:01,827 -the fridge, - -246 -00:09:01,828 --> 00:09:02,000 -just to be sure. +240 +00:09:00,223 --> 00:09:02,000 +the fridge, just to be sure. -247 +241 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:03,000 Dan: Mm-hmm. -248 +242 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,000 Bekah: That's interesting. -249 +243 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:05,000 Bogdan: But I dunno. -250 +244 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,509 Bekah: I should try that experiment. -251 +245 00:09:06,509 --> 00:09:08,826 Bogdan: I dunno. But no, tomatoes don't go into fridge. -252 +246 00:09:08,826 --> 00:09:11,143 -Like, I'm -- +Like, I'm-- -253 +247 00:09:11,443 --> 00:09:14,173 it's just nuts. It's the way it is, my friends [laughs]. -254 +248 00:09:14,428 --> 00:09:16,589 Bekah: Yes. No, 100% agree with you. -255 +249 00:09:17,624 --> 00:09:17,984 Bogdan: Yeah. -256 +250 00:09:18,509 --> 00:09:22,198 Bekah: Well, thanks for being with us here today, Bogdan. And -257 +251 00:09:22,229 --> 00:09:27,839 we like to start every podcast episode with your origin story. -258 +252 00:09:27,839 --> 00:09:31,198 So, talk to us a little bit about how you got into tech. -259 +253 00:09:32,923 --> 00:09:35,533 Bogdan: Okay. Thank you for -having me. I just -- I- I mean, +having me. I just-- I- I mean, -260 +254 00:09:35,703 --> 00:09:40,364 I want to start with, like, I think it's very unfair how clear -261 +255 00:09:40,514 --> 00:09:42,757 Dan sound- sounds compared to the two of us [laughs], Bekah. -262 +256 00:09:42,757 --> 00:09:45,000 Cuz do -263 +257 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,000 -you -- do -- you don't post it +you-- do-- you don't post it like this. You don't sound that -264 +258 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,173 cool in the actual [laughs] talk, I see. Like, there's -265 +259 00:09:50,173 --> 00:09:52,874 some mixing going on, right? -266 +260 00:09:52,874 --> 00:09:54,808 -Dan: What? Wait. Are you saying --- +Dan: What? Wait. Are you +saying-- -267 +261 00:09:54,808 --> 00:09:55,964 Bogdan: You s- you sound very cool. -268 +262 00:09:56,548 --> 00:09:57,224 Dan: Oh. No idea. -269 +263 00:09:57,224 --> 00:09:59,624 Bogdan: And I don't. I- I don't know. But I'm looking at those -270 +264 00:09:59,624 --> 00:10:01,244 things moving on the screen, and -he -- yours are ... bigger +he-- yours are ... bigger -271 +265 00:10:01,244 --> 00:10:02,864 [laughs]. -272 +266 00:10:04,394 --> 00:10:07,964 Dan: Well, okay. Well, I might just be talking louder or -273 +267 00:10:07,964 --> 00:10:09,448 -having way -- that might be too- +having way-- that might be too- too loud, actually. I wasn't -274 -00:10:09,448 --> 00:10:10,932 -really - -275 -00:10:10,933 --> 00:10:13,303 -looking at it until just now. -This is -- +268 +00:10:09,448 --> 00:10:13,303 +really looking at it until just +now. This is-- -276 +269 00:10:14,038 --> 00:10:15,396 Bekah: I think it looks different on different screens -277 +270 00:10:15,396 --> 00:10:16,754 too. Like- -278 +271 00:10:16,033 --> 00:10:16,754 Dan: That's probably true too. -279 +272 00:10:16,754 --> 00:10:17,009 Bekah: -mine looks very- -280 +273 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:17,000 Bogdan: Ah. -281 +274 00:10:17,009 --> 00:10:19,149 -Bekah: -tiny, like, barely -- -so- so, +Bekah: -tiny, like, barely-- so- +so, -282 +275 00:10:19,149 --> 00:10:21,000 -okay. If you're listening -- +okay. If you're listening-- -283 +276 00:10:19,149 --> 00:10:21,348 Dan: Yeah, yours is probably, -honestly, like [chuckles], I +honestly, like [chuckles]-- I -284 +277 00:10:21,348 --> 00:10:23,547 -mean, and I try +mean-- and I try -285 +278 00:10:23,548 --> 00:10:25,318 -to do this, like I fix this up +to do this, like, I fix this up in editing later. I try to, -286 +279 00:10:25,318 --> 00:10:27,088 right? -287 +280 00:10:27,089 --> 00:10:27,479 Bogdan: Yeah. -288 +281 00:10:27,479 --> 00:10:29,159 -Dan: So, this is like sound +Dan: So, this is, like, sound engineering stuff that I've been -289 +282 00:10:29,159 --> 00:10:30,839 learning on -290 +283 00:10:30,844 --> 00:10:32,251 the fly since we were started working the podcast [chuckles]. -291 +284 00:10:32,251 --> 00:10:33,658 -So +So, -292 +285 00:10:33,663 --> 00:10:36,658 -I don't, you know, I don't know -a lot about it. But like, the -- +I don't-- you know, I don't know +a lot about it. But, like, the-- -293 +286 00:10:37,318 --> 00:10:40,589 trying to get those levels, you know, to where it's close to the -294 +287 00:10:40,589 --> 00:10:44,219 edges is usually the best. So, -Bekah is like, I -- yeah, like- +Bekah is, like-- I-- yeah, like- -295 +288 00:10:44,428 --> 00:10:46,048 -like -- what I was saying is +like-- what I was saying is you're a little quiet, still, -296 +289 00:10:46,048 --> 00:10:47,668 you know [chuckles]? -297 +290 00:10:48,688 --> 00:10:48,839 Bekah: I'm quiet? -298 +291 00:10:48,928 --> 00:10:51,808 Dan: A little bit. Not a lot. -299 +292 00:10:51,839 --> 00:10:52,558 Bekah: I didn't turn up my sound. You didn't tell me to. -300 +293 00:10:52,948 --> 00:10:54,838 Dan: Well, I didn't really -notice before. And also, in -- +notice before. And also, in-- -301 +294 00:10:54,838 --> 00:10:56,728 -so, for those -- +so, for those-- -302 +295 00:10:56,908 --> 00:10:58,499 I don't know if we're gonna cut this or not, but for people -303 +296 00:10:58,499 --> 00:11:00,463 listening, we use Zencastr, and it doesn't show you these nice -304 +297 00:11:00,463 --> 00:11:02,427 level -305 +298 00:11:02,428 --> 00:11:06,448 outputs until you're recording. Which is- -306 +299 00:11:06,448 --> 00:11:06,869 Bogdan: Yeah. -307 +300 00:11:06,869 --> 00:11:09,996 Dan: -really obnoxious. It's hard to tell. So, I don't know. -308 +301 00:11:09,996 --> 00:11:13,123 But, Bogdan, do -309 +302 00:11:13,129 --> 00:11:14,971 -you have -- is that the Wave- is +you have-- is that the Wave- is that the Wave-1? Wave-3? -310 +303 00:11:14,971 --> 00:11:16,813 [Unintelligible]? -311 +304 00:11:17,864 --> 00:11:19,000 Bogdan: You are Wave-3. -312 +305 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,000 Dan: Wave-3? -313 +306 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,422 -Bogdan: But no, it was a +Bogdan: But, no, it was a compliment. We don't have to go -314 +307 00:11:21,422 --> 00:11:22,844 -into it. It's also very -- +into it. It's also very-- -315 +308 00:11:22,874 --> 00:11:23,437 -Dan: Oh, no. It's -- so, I mean, +Dan: Oh, no. It's-- so, I mean, I- I just got- I just got the -316 +309 00:11:23,437 --> 00:11:24,000 Wave-3, -317 +310 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,443 like, last week, and it's been like- -318 +311 00:11:26,443 --> 00:11:27,313 -Bogdan: It- it -- yeah. I have -... yeah. It's -- +Bogdan: It- it-- yeah. I have +... yeah. It's-- -319 +312 00:11:27,524 --> 00:11:28,574 Dan: -a day getting it set up. So I can send you some stuff -320 +313 00:11:28,574 --> 00:11:29,624 [chuckles]. -321 +314 00:11:30,014 --> 00:11:32,000 Bogdan: It's ... no, it's Wave-3, right? It is. -322 +315 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:33,000 Dan: It looks like it. -323 +316 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:34,341 Bogdan: Yeah. It's Wave-3. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like it. -324 +317 00:11:34,341 --> 00:11:35,682 It's nice. -325 +318 00:11:35,833 --> 00:11:37,243 -Dan: Yeah. I got- I got -- I -like it too. I just got it ... +Dan: Yeah. I got- I got-- I like +it too. I just got it ... -326 +319 00:11:37,243 --> 00:11:38,653 yeah. Two weeks ago. -327 +320 00:11:38,683 --> 00:11:39,703 Or a week and half ago. So ... I'll send you some stuff. -328 +321 00:11:40,374 --> 00:11:42,513 -Bogdan: It- it -- yeah. But i- -is your room, like, prepared for +Bogdan: It- it-- yeah. But i-is +your room, like, prepared for -329 +322 00:11:42,513 --> 00:11:44,652 this? Cuz you- -330 +323 00:11:44,653 --> 00:11:44,653 Dan: No. -331 +324 00:11:44,653 --> 00:11:46,000 Bogdan: -sound insanely good. -332 +325 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:47,000 -Dan: Nope. It's just -- +Dan: Nope. It's just-- -333 +326 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,524 Bogdan: Like, there's no way mine sounds like this. -334 +327 00:11:48,524 --> 00:11:50,000 Dan: Yours sounds pretty good. -335 +328 00:11:49,004 --> 00:11:50,000 Bekah: You sound really good. -336 +329 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,000 -Dan: I think one thing is, you +Dan: I think, one thing is, you probably could be closer to your -337 +330 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,114 -mic? That's -- I mean, maybe -not. I don't know. +mic? That's-- I mean, maybe not. +I don't know. -338 +331 00:11:56,114 --> 00:11:57,388 -When you're -- it's when you're -moving away -- so, like, if I +When you're-- it's when you're +moving away-- so, like, if I -339 +332 00:11:57,388 --> 00:11:58,662 sit -340 +333 00:11:58,663 --> 00:12:01,933 back here, does that sound- that sounds like noticeably worse? -341 +334 00:12:01,933 --> 00:12:02,354 -More echo-y -- echo thing? +More echo-y-- echo thing? -342 +335 00:12:02,548 --> 00:12:03,000 Bekah: So- so for the listeners- -343 +336 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:03,000 Bogdan: Yeah [laughs]. -344 +337 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,000 Dan: Yeah [laughs]? -345 +338 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:08,099 Bekah: Dan has scooted his seat back about four feet. -346 +339 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,000 Dan: All right. -347 +340 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,000 Bogdan: Okay, okay, okay [laughs]. -348 +341 00:12:08,099 --> 00:12:13,453 Dan: So- so that was the one -thing I- I read about -- +thing I- I read about-- -349 -00:12:13,484 --> 00:12:14,984 -so they do like- do like the +342 +00:12:13,484 --> 00:12:16,484 +so they do, like-- do, like, the hang 10 like this, you know, or- -350 -00:12:14,984 --> 00:12:16,484 -or - -351 +343 00:12:16,484 --> 00:12:19,484 -whatever. And then that's like -distance from- +or whatever. And then that's, +like, distance from- -352 +344 00:12:19,484 --> 00:12:20,242 Bogdan: Oh, okay. Than that should not move. Which is make -353 +345 00:12:20,242 --> 00:12:21,000 sense. -354 +346 00:12:19,484 --> 00:12:21,148 Dan: -your mouth to the microphone that should be ... -355 +347 00:12:21,148 --> 00:12:22,812 right. And that's- that's hard. Yeah. It's -356 +348 00:12:22,813 --> 00:12:26,293 hard not to- it's hard not to -move. But like, that gets you +move. But, like, that gets you -357 -00:12:26,293 --> 00:12:27,146 +349 +00:12:26,293 --> 00:12:27,999 picked up more, but then there's -a bunch of other stuff too, so - -358 -00:12:27,146 --> 00:12:27,999 --- +a bunch of other stuff too, so-- -359 +350 00:12:27,999 --> 00:12:28,604 Bogdan: Okay. -360 +351 00:12:28,604 --> 00:12:29,000 Dan: We don't have to get into it on that. -361 +352 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:30,000 -Bogdan: Maybe we -- yeah. +Bogdan: Maybe we-- yeah. -362 +353 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,543 Dan: Maybe we do a whole episode on it sometime [laughs]. -363 +354 00:12:33,178 --> 00:12:34,109 Bogdan: [Chuckles] Okay. Sorry. I'm sorry. -364 +355 00:12:34,109 --> 00:12:34,303 -Dan: Anyway -- +Dan: Anyway-- -365 -00:12:34,303 --> 00:12:35,683 +356 +00:12:34,303 --> 00:12:37,063 Bekah: Maybe- maybe a live -stream. And then, the visual - -366 -00:12:35,683 --> 00:12:37,063 -will be +stream. And then the visual -367 +357 00:12:37,063 --> 00:12:38,908 -easier to the scene. +will be easier to the scene. -368 +358 00:12:38,908 --> 00:12:40,333 Bogdan: Yeah, screen the sh- -screen the share -- share the +screen the share-- share the -369 +359 00:12:40,333 --> 00:12:41,758 screen [laughs]. Yeah. -370 +360 00:12:44,083 --> 00:12:46,000 Dan: Okay. Anyway, I don't know what you- -371 +361 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,000 Bogdan: Origin story. -372 +362 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,000 Bekah: Origin story. -373 +363 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:48,869 Dan: -were saying, or you were -talking -- yes [laughs]. +talking-- yes [laughs]. -374 +364 00:12:48,869 --> 00:12:50,189 Bogdan: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We were doing about origin story. -375 +365 00:12:50,189 --> 00:12:51,509 Well, yeah. Yeah. It's -376 +366 00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:54,711 very- it's very linear and r-r-rather boring, but ... yeah. -377 +367 00:12:54,711 --> 00:12:57,913 Cuz -378 +368 00:12:57,913 --> 00:12:59,773 -I did -- so, in Romania we have +I did-- so, in Romania we have high schools that are very -379 +369 00:12:59,773 --> 00:13:01,633 specialized. -380 +370 00:13:01,964 --> 00:13:05,114 And I did one of those with computer science. So I kind of -381 +371 00:13:05,114 --> 00:13:07,588 -knew I wanted. I- I have -- my -family is mainly like, +knew I wanted. I- I have-- my +family is mainly, like, -382 +372 00:13:07,588 --> 00:13:10,062 musicians. -383 +373 00:13:10,063 --> 00:13:12,854 A lot of them are trained musicians, so I didn't wanna do -384 +374 00:13:12,854 --> 00:13:15,284 -that cuz I thought it's boring, +that cuz I thought it's boring and [laughs] fired back to me a -385 +375 00:13:15,284 --> 00:13:17,714 few years -386 +376 00:13:17,714 --> 00:13:20,024 later. But yeah, I thought it's -boring. So I went straight to +boring. So I went straight to, -387 +377 00:13:20,024 --> 00:13:22,259 -like this mathematics computer +like, this mathematics computer science high school. So I- I -388 +378 00:13:22,259 --> 00:13:24,494 kind of knew -389 +379 00:13:24,494 --> 00:13:25,814 I wanted to do this. I kind of hated it at the time as well, -390 +380 00:13:25,814 --> 00:13:27,134 you -391 +381 00:13:27,134 --> 00:13:30,703 know? The whole C, C++ things that don't make any sense -392 +382 00:13:30,793 --> 00:13:34,244 when you're young and you just -wanna make -- was the +wanna make-- was the -393 +383 00:13:34,249 --> 00:13:37,004 rectangle move on the screen, -right? I don't wanna spend my -- - -394 -00:13:37,004 --> 00:13:38,773 -yeah. Anyways. But yeah, I -graduated that, and then I moved +right? I don't wanna spend my-- -395 -00:13:38,773 --> 00:13:40,542 -to +384 +00:13:37,004 --> 00:13:40,542 +yeah. Anyways. But-- yeah, I +graduated that and then I moved -396 +385 00:13:40,604 --> 00:13:43,514 -The Netherlands to do applied +to the Netherlands to do applied computer science, which was -397 +386 00:13:43,514 --> 00:13:45,958 another [chuckles] surprise. Cuz -it was this program of like +it was this program of, like, -398 +387 00:13:45,958 --> 00:13:48,402 computer -399 +388 00:13:48,403 --> 00:13:51,344 -science, of course, but like, +science—of course—but, like, electrical engineering as well, -400 +389 00:13:51,793 --> 00:13:53,728 -which, look. I could have +which look-- I could have [chuckles] look it up, and I did -401 +390 00:13:53,728 --> 00:13:55,663 look it up. Like, -402 +391 00:13:55,663 --> 00:13:57,058 I kind of knew what the program -was, right? But I did -- I +was, right? But I did-- I -403 +392 00:13:57,058 --> 00:13:58,453 wasn't sure -404 +393 00:13:58,453 --> 00:14:00,524 -if this gonna be a lot of -- I +if this gonna be a lot of-- I didn't even know what's -405 +394 00:14:00,524 --> 00:14:02,504 electrical engineering and -turned out to be like very ... +turned out to be, like, very ... -406 +395 00:14:02,504 --> 00:14:04,484 not cool [laughs]. -407 +396 00:14:05,264 --> 00:14:07,093 Like, not- no-not toward the field itself. This is just for -408 +397 00:14:07,093 --> 00:14:08,922 -me, like in +me, like, in -409 +398 00:14:08,923 --> 00:14:10,805 -university years. It was -- I -was like, yeah. Still, I wanna +university years. It was-- I was +like-- yeah. Still, I wanna -410 +399 00:14:10,805 --> 00:14:12,687 make -411 -00:14:12,839 --> 00:14:14,938 +400 +00:14:12,839 --> 00:14:17,037 rectangles move. But then I wa- got super, super, super lucky in -412 -00:14:14,938 --> 00:14:17,037 -my - -413 +401 00:14:17,038 --> 00:14:21,208 -first year of university, I -think. I got a job — remote +my first year of university, I +think. I got a job—remote -414 +402 00:14:21,208 --> 00:14:23,143 -job — in Romania for like one of +job—in Romania for, like, one of my friends' father that had -415 +403 00:14:23,143 --> 00:14:25,078 -this, like +this, like, -416 +404 00:14:25,078 --> 00:14:29,188 e-commerce kind of low key -business, where I got into +business where I got into -417 +405 00:14:29,188 --> 00:14:32,038 Node. I did not lie on my interview, but something made -418 -00:14:32,038 --> 00:14:34,888 -him - -419 -00:14:34,889 --> 00:14:38,879 -think I actually know Node. I- I -did- I did know about Node, +406 +00:14:32,038 --> 00:14:38,879 +him think I actually know Node. +I- I did- I did know about Node, -420 +407 00:14:38,969 --> 00:14:39,000 -right? I was like [laughs] -- +right? I was like [laughs]-- -421 +408 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,889 Dan: You've heard- you've heard of it. Yeah, yeah. -422 +409 00:14:41,864 --> 00:14:43,679 Bogdan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cuz I -did -- so I, like, the -- I +did-- so I-- like, the-- I -423 +410 00:14:43,679 --> 00:14:45,494 -remember -- so, the very +remember-- so, the very -424 +411 00:14:45,494 --> 00:14:47,939 first thing I did, like, web -development was, back in high +development was—back in high -425 +412 00:14:47,939 --> 00:14:50,384 -school was like +school—was, like, -426 +413 00:14:50,384 --> 00:14:53,953 -this pi- p5.js — which is still +this pi- p5.js—which is still around, they're very much -427 +414 00:14:53,953 --> 00:14:59,264 -happening — but there was this --- people doing this c-c-coding +happening—but there was this-- +people doing this c-c-coding -428 +415 00:14:59,293 --> 00:15:00,973 train, they were super into it, -and I did like -- they did, +and I did, like-- they did, -429 +416 00:15:00,973 --> 00:15:02,653 like, the -430 +417 00:15:02,653 --> 00:15:05,533 -snake, and I did the snake, and +snake. And I did the snake, and then I wanted to- to do, like- -431 -00:15:06,823 --> 00:15:11,183 -like a multiplayer thing or like -a chat room for it, and I- I- +418 +00:15:06,823 --> 00:15:09,003 +like, a multiplayer thing or, +like, a chat room for it, and I- -432 +419 +00:15:09,003 --> 00:15:11,183 +I- + +420 00:15:11,188 --> 00:15:13,461 I knew that you can use Node to do that [laughs]. And that was -433 +421 00:15:13,461 --> 00:15:15,734 the only -434 +422 00:15:15,739 --> 00:15:19,423 information I had. And I was -like, "Yeah, you can do like, +like, "Yeah, you can do, like, -435 +423 00:15:19,423 --> 00:15:21,946 -WebsSockets, right?" Yeah. But +WebSockets, right?" Yeah. But anyways, they were- they were- -436 +424 00:15:22,244 --> 00:15:24,044 -they were very nice to me and +they were very nice to me and, like, they actually hired me, -437 +425 00:15:24,044 --> 00:15:25,844 and I -438 +426 00:15:25,849 --> 00:15:27,181 -learned a lot about like +learned a lot about, like, databases, and Node, and stuff -439 +427 00:15:27,181 --> 00:15:28,513 like -440 +428 00:15:28,514 --> 00:15:32,953 that. And then the second year of university came in when I was -441 +429 00:15:33,374 --> 00:15:35,023 actually teaching more programming. And I finally kind -442 +430 00:15:35,023 --> 00:15:36,672 of -443 +431 00:15:36,884 --> 00:15:39,344 overlapped the two, and be like, "Oh, okay, I'm doing this for my -444 +432 00:15:39,344 --> 00:15:40,859 job. I'm learning about this," -you know? We're -- even in +you know? We're-- even in -445 +433 00:15:40,859 --> 00:15:42,374 school, we learned -446 +434 00:15:42,403 --> 00:15:44,278 -a bit like about testing, and +a bit, like, about testing, and CI/CD, and things like that. I -447 +435 00:15:44,278 --> 00:15:46,153 was like, -448 -00:15:46,153 --> 00:15:48,838 +436 +00:15:46,153 --> 00:15:51,523 "Oh, this is actually cool and useful." So I ... yeah ... tried -449 -00:15:48,838 --> 00:15:51,523 -to - -450 +437 00:15:51,524 --> 00:15:54,119 -[chuckles] finish school, and +to [chuckles] finish school, and then [laughs] continued, then I -451 +438 00:15:54,119 --> 00:15:56,714 -got a university job like +got a university job, like, -452 +439 00:15:56,714 --> 00:16:00,786 -teaching Java, which was- which +teaching Java which was- which was bad [laughs]. Look, I have -453 +440 00:16:00,786 --> 00:16:04,858 this theory -454 +441 00:16:04,859 --> 00:16:06,958 and [laughs] I hope I never have to- to get a teaching job again -455 +442 00:16:06,958 --> 00:16:09,057 cuz if -456 +443 00:16:09,058 --> 00:16:10,528 I say this. No, I don't. No, -it's not- no, it's not- it's not +it's not-- no, it's not- it's -457 +444 00:16:10,528 --> 00:16:11,998 -a hard +not a hard -458 +445 00:16:11,999 --> 00:16:13,574 -day. But it's just like, +day. But it's just, like, teaching programming, it's so -459 +446 00:16:13,574 --> 00:16:15,149 easy. Cuz -460 +447 00:16:15,153 --> 00:16:17,475 -you just like -- you just say, -like, "I -- I'm- I'm- I'm gonna +you just, like-- you just say +like, "I-- I'm- I'm- I'm gonna -461 +448 00:16:17,475 --> 00:16:19,797 show -462 +449 00:16:19,798 --> 00:16:21,013 you how to Google." And if they have questions, you just Google -463 +450 00:16:21,013 --> 00:16:22,228 [Dan chuckles] -464 +451 00:16:22,229 --> 00:16:24,028 -in front of them, and I -- and- +in front of them, and I-- and- and- and find out things -465 +452 00:16:24,028 --> 00:16:25,827 together. Which -466 -00:16:25,828 --> 00:16:27,508 -is nice, you know? They also do --- need to know how to Google. - -467 -00:16:27,508 --> 00:16:29,188 -But, +453 +00:16:25,828 --> 00:16:29,188 +is nice, you know? They also +do-- need to know how to Google. -468 +454 00:16:29,193 --> 00:16:30,781 -yeah. And then I got an +But-- yeah. And then I got an internship at another -469 +455 00:16:30,781 --> 00:16:32,369 university, -470 +456 00:16:32,548 --> 00:16:37,798 but for research. And then I moved here, to another city, -471 +457 00:16:38,219 --> 00:16:42,543 while still studying. I did my internship, I got a full -472 +458 00:16:42,543 --> 00:16:46,413 contract after, but Corona happened. So I was staying here -473 +459 00:16:46,474 --> 00:16:49,414 working full-time while ... finishing my- my- my bachelor -474 +460 00:16:49,414 --> 00:16:52,354 basic -475 -00:16:52,354 --> 00:16:55,689 -or barely like [chuckles] trying -to finish my- my bachelor. And +461 +00:16:52,354 --> 00:16:54,021 +or barely, like, [chuckles] +trying to finish my- my -476 +462 +00:16:54,021 --> 00:16:55,688 +bachelor. And + +463 00:16:55,689 --> 00:16:59,024 -then I- I -- +then I- I-- -477 +464 00:16:59,864 --> 00:17:02,803 the- the Maastricht University research position was absolutely -478 +465 00:17:02,803 --> 00:17:06,554 -amazing. Like, it's -- it was -academia, which was kind of new +amazing. Like, it's-- it was +academia which was kind of new -479 +466 00:17:06,554 --> 00:17:07,978 to me, cuz I- I always knew I -wanna be an -- a developer, +wanna be an-- a developer, -480 +467 00:17:07,978 --> 00:17:09,402 right? Or -481 +468 00:17:09,403 --> 00:17:11,008 an engineer. But I was like, "Okay, we can combine this," -482 +469 00:17:11,008 --> 00:17:12,613 right? -483 -00:17:12,618 --> 00:17:13,951 +470 +00:17:12,618 --> 00:17:15,284 I don't know a- a lot about research, but I [chuckles] know -484 -00:17:13,951 --> 00:17:15,284 -about - -485 +471 00:17:15,284 --> 00:17:16,919 -development, so we can +about development, so we can definitely overlap. Cuz it was -486 +472 00:17:16,919 --> 00:17:18,554 also like a -487 +473 00:17:18,554 --> 00:17:22,026 -legal -- kind of legal tech +legal-- kind of legal tech [silence] space, where they had -488 +474 00:17:22,026 --> 00:17:25,498 a lot of -489 -00:17:25,499 --> 00:17:27,584 +475 +00:17:25,499 --> 00:17:29,669 data where they had a lot of ideas about tech, but th-they -490 -00:17:27,584 --> 00:17:29,669 -did - -491 +476 00:17:29,669 --> 00:17:31,214 -the developers. So, yeah, we +did the developers. So, yeah, we kind of combined it very nice. -492 +477 00:17:31,214 --> 00:17:32,759 But -493 +478 00:17:32,818 --> 00:17:35,668 things slowly came to an end. -And finally, two months ago I +And finally, two months ago, I -494 +479 00:17:35,668 --> 00:17:38,518 got a -495 +480 00:17:38,759 --> 00:17:44,038 -new software engineering job, to +new software engineering job to a digital creative internet, -496 -00:17:44,128 --> 00:17:46,798 -whatever they [chuckles] call it --- agency, in The Netherlands. +481 +00:17:44,128 --> 00:17:49,468 +whatever they [chuckles] call +it-- agency, in the Netherlands. -497 -00:17:46,798 --> 00:17:49,468 -So I plan +482 +00:17:50,294 --> 00:17:51,306 +So I plan to- to stay doing +Node, basically. Root Node, -498 -00:17:50,294 --> 00:17:52,319 -to- to stay doing Node, -basically. Root Node, React, +483 +00:17:51,306 --> 00:17:52,318 +React, -499 +484 00:17:52,319 --> 00:17:54,344 TypeScript, things like -500 +485 00:17:54,344 --> 00:17:57,658 that. So, yeah. I think that's- that's it. This is today -501 -00:17:57,658 --> 00:18:00,972 -[laughs]. Just - -502 -00:18:01,094 --> 00:18:02,000 -recently joined a -- +486 +00:17:57,658 --> 00:18:02,000 +[laughs]. Just recently joined +a-- -503 +487 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,000 -Bekah: A cool -- +Bekah: A cool-- -504 +488 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:03,000 Bogdan: Yeah. -505 +489 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:05,104 Bekah: You recently joined ... I'm sorry. I think I cut you -506 +490 00:18:05,104 --> 00:18:06,208 off. -507 +491 00:18:06,374 --> 00:18:07,768 Bogdan: Yeah, no. That was it. -Just recently, [chuckles] like +Just recently, [chuckles] like, -508 +492 00:18:07,768 --> 00:18:09,162 two months -509 +493 00:18:09,163 --> 00:18:11,368 ago, I think. It was April. So, yeah. -510 +494 00:18:11,578 --> 00:18:13,003 Bekah: So I wanna back up a little bit and ask some -511 +495 00:18:13,003 --> 00:18:14,428 questions -512 +496 00:18:14,429 --> 00:18:16,544 about the schooling that you've done. So, it sounds like there -513 +497 00:18:16,544 --> 00:18:18,659 was -514 +498 00:18:18,689 --> 00:18:22,888 maybe more practical application than I've seen from universities -515 +499 00:18:22,888 --> 00:18:26,219 in the United States, which computer science degrees have a -516 +500 00:18:26,219 --> 00:18:28,888 lot of, like, theoretical content, algorithms, and that -517 +501 00:18:28,888 --> 00:18:31,557 kind -518 +502 00:18:31,558 --> 00:18:35,429 of stuff. Is that- is that accurate statement? Or were you -519 +503 00:18:35,429 --> 00:18:36,269 doing a lot of that stuff too? -520 +504 00:18:38,278 --> 00:18:40,243 Bogdan: Yeah. We- we were doing -that for sure as well. But yeah, +that for sure as well. But-- -521 +505 00:18:40,243 --> 00:18:42,208 -with an +yeah, with an -522 -00:18:42,209 --> 00:18:44,143 +506 +00:18:42,209 --> 00:18:46,077 eye on electrical engineering -and kind of like -- so, in- in - -523 -00:18:44,143 --> 00:18:46,077 -The +and kind of like-- so, in- in -524 -00:18:46,078 --> 00:18:47,623 -Netherlands, they have this -system of like universities, - -525 -00:18:47,623 --> 00:18:49,168 -what +507 +00:18:46,078 --> 00:18:49,168 +the Netherlands, they have this +system of, like, universities, -526 +508 00:18:49,169 --> 00:18:51,133 -they call universities -- +what they call universities-- research universities, which is -527 +509 00:18:51,133 --> 00:18:53,097 basically -528 +510 00:18:53,098 --> 00:18:55,063 like a college university in- in- the US as well, right? Where -529 +511 00:18:55,063 --> 00:18:57,028 -they, you +they, you know, -530 +512 00:18:57,034 --> 00:18:58,756 -know, they teach, you know, like -a normal [chuckles] university. +they teach, you know, like, a +normal [chuckles] university. -531 +513 00:18:58,756 --> 00:19:00,478 And they have these -532 +514 00:19:00,479 --> 00:19:03,778 -things ... this like, just +things ... this, like, just wh-wh-what they call -533 +515 00:19:03,778 --> 00:19:07,077 -'hogeschool' or like 'HBO's, +'hogeschool' or, like, 'HBO's, where- -534 +516 00:19:07,259 --> 00:19:10,979 -where like more professional +where, like, more professional schools. In English, they -535 +517 00:19:10,979 --> 00:19:12,719 call them Universities of -Applied Sciences, but it's in- +Applied Sciences but it's-- in- -536 +518 00:19:12,719 --> 00:19:14,459 in- in -537 +519 00:19:14,459 --> 00:19:16,709 -Dutch doesn't really go -- it's -not ... really -- I think it -- +Dutch doesn't really go-- it's +not ... really-- I think it-- -538 +520 00:19:16,709 --> 00:19:18,959 I- I -539 +521 00:19:18,963 --> 00:19:20,055 -think it's a university, but -like -- yeah, there's a +think it's a university, but, +like-- yeah, there's a -540 +522 00:19:20,055 --> 00:19:21,147 difference. -541 +523 00:19:21,153 --> 00:19:23,505 -Here's like more of a -- like a +Here's, like, more of a-- like a very- like a very engineering, -542 +524 00:19:23,505 --> 00:19:25,857 like kind -543 +525 00:19:25,858 --> 00:19:27,876 -of applied -- hands on +of applied-- hands on experience. It's also longer. -544 +526 00:19:27,876 --> 00:19:29,894 It's four years -545 +527 00:19:29,894 --> 00:19:31,244 instead of three. And you have to do internships, you have to -546 +528 00:19:31,244 --> 00:19:32,594 work -547 +529 00:19:32,594 --> 00:19:34,814 with companies, you have to work with clients, and things like -548 +530 00:19:34,814 --> 00:19:37,574 that, which is for people that wanna do, you know, wanna -549 +531 00:19:37,574 --> 00:19:38,998 get straight to- to work and things like that. Which goes -550 +532 00:19:38,998 --> 00:19:40,422 very -551 +533 00:19:40,423 --> 00:19:42,374 -well for like, engineering, and +well for, like, engineering, and things like that. -552 +534 00:19:43,874 --> 00:19:44,114 Bekah: Yeah. Interesting. -553 +535 00:19:44,263 --> 00:19:47,233 Bogdan: So, it was one of those, you know? Where you- where you -554 +536 00:19:47,233 --> 00:19:50,203 -have like, more like -programming, but like kind of +have, like, more like +programming, but, like, kind of -555 +537 00:19:50,203 --> 00:19:53,173 rather like ... the- -556 +538 00:19:53,179 --> 00:19:54,796 -the applied part was like more +the applied part was, like, more the electrical part rather than -557 +539 00:19:54,796 --> 00:19:56,413 web, -558 +540 00:19:56,534 --> 00:20:00,943 right? Like we didn't- we didn't learn about web development, but -559 +541 00:20:00,943 --> 00:20:02,998 we did learn about operating systems or microcontrollers or -560 +542 00:20:02,998 --> 00:20:05,053 thing that -561 +543 00:20:05,054 --> 00:20:07,000 go into electrical engineering field. -562 +544 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,000 Dan: Did you have to do assembly? -563 +545 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,000 Bogdan: I think I did not- -564 +546 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:12,000 Dan: Oh, that's good. -565 +547 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,226 Bogdan: -unfortunately. No, but -we- we -- it was- it was insane. +we- we-- it was- it was insane. -566 +548 00:20:14,226 --> 00:20:16,452 Like, I -567 +549 00:20:16,453 --> 00:20:19,138 -absolutely -- it- it- it was +absolutely-- it- it- it was insane. And- and- and we did -568 +550 00:20:19,138 --> 00:20:21,823 microcontrollers, of -569 +551 00:20:21,824 --> 00:20:23,571 course, and all that, like, chip programming, and things like -570 +552 00:20:23,571 --> 00:20:25,318 -that, +that -571 +553 00:20:25,318 --> 00:20:27,583 which I absolutely dreaded [chuckles] and I couldn't wait -572 +554 00:20:27,583 --> 00:20:29,848 to be over. -573 +555 00:20:29,848 --> 00:20:31,273 And although it was interesting, right? Like, operating systems -574 +556 00:20:31,273 --> 00:20:32,698 was -575 +557 00:20:32,703 --> 00:20:36,868 such an interesting thing, but -it's just like the- the- the +it's just, like, the- the- the -576 +558 00:20:37,469 --> 00:20:41,939 -whole thing of like patterns, +whole thing of, like, patterns, and ideas, and things you -577 +559 00:20:41,939 --> 00:20:44,549 -can have in web development, you --- I couldn't have in- in +can have in web development, +you-- I couldn't have in- in -578 +560 00:20:44,549 --> 00:20:47,159 operating -579 +561 00:20:47,159 --> 00:20:48,929 systems, you know? You- you can't get too creative about -580 +562 00:20:48,929 --> 00:20:50,699 [chuckles] it. Cuz -581 +563 00:20:50,699 --> 00:20:52,153 -there are -- especially in +there are-- especially in microcontrollers, like, they- -582 +564 00:20:52,153 --> 00:20:53,607 they -583 -00:20:53,608 --> 00:20:55,768 +565 +00:20:53,608 --> 00:20:57,928 have this- this huge books and guides about- about them, and -584 -00:20:55,768 --> 00:20:57,928 -you - -585 +566 00:20:57,929 --> 00:20:59,413 -have to know things, and you +you have to know things, and you have to look for things that are -586 +567 00:20:59,413 --> 00:21:00,897 just -587 +568 00:21:00,903 --> 00:21:02,956 set, right? Or- or- or, you know, I don't know enough to- -588 +569 00:21:02,956 --> 00:21:05,009 to- to make this [chuckles] -589 +570 00:21:05,398 --> 00:21:06,778 -conclusion, but it's still like --- the way I saw it was like, +conclusion, but it's still, +like-- the way I saw it was, -590 +571 00:21:06,778 --> 00:21:08,158 -this +like, this -591 +572 00:21:08,159 --> 00:21:12,898 -is -- I can't- I can't be +is-- I can't- I can't be creative here, you know? But I -592 +573 00:21:12,898 --> 00:21:15,778 finished it anyways. But, yeah [laughs]. -593 +574 00:21:16,394 --> 00:21:17,504 Dan: Yeah. No, I- I love that. I love hearing about that, you -594 +575 00:21:17,504 --> 00:21:18,614 know? -595 +576 00:21:18,614 --> 00:21:20,308 And you have used this phrase a few times when you're telling -596 +577 00:21:20,308 --> 00:21:22,002 the story -597 +578 00:21:22,003 --> 00:21:23,833 about ... like, I didn't get to -move around boxes or like, you +move around boxes or, like, you -598 +579 00:21:23,833 --> 00:21:25,663 know, -599 +580 00:21:25,663 --> 00:21:27,223 move around boxes [Dan and -Bogdan chuckles] like, and like, +Bogdan chuckles], like-- and, -600 +581 00:21:27,223 --> 00:21:28,783 -I- I -- and like, it's -- I know -that's like a +like, I- I-- and, like, it's-- I +know that's like a -601 +582 00:21:28,784 --> 00:21:29,954 funny way of saying it, but I- I totally connect with that -602 +583 00:21:29,954 --> 00:21:31,124 because -603 +584 00:21:31,124 --> 00:21:34,784 that's- that's something that I personally, like ... I don't -604 +585 00:21:34,784 --> 00:21:35,893 -think -- I mean, I never- I -never put it exactly like that, +think-- I mean, I never- I never +put it exactly like that, -605 +586 00:21:35,893 --> 00:21:37,002 but it's the -606 +587 00:21:37,003 --> 00:21:40,784 -same thing of that -- the thing +same thing of that-- the thing that drew me to programming was -607 +588 00:21:40,814 --> 00:21:42,913 -the -- was that. Was moving -around boxes. Or like doing a +the-- was that. Was moving +around boxes. Or, like, doing a -608 +589 00:21:42,913 --> 00:21:45,012 -thing, like, +thing, like-- -609 +590 00:21:45,314 --> 00:21:46,949 doing a thing, and then getting to see it, like, move or happen -610 +591 00:21:46,949 --> 00:21:48,584 or ... -611 +592 00:21:49,663 --> 00:21:52,814 just see it in front of me, -right? And- and while, like +right? And- and while, like, -612 +593 00:21:52,814 --> 00:21:55,483 -academically, some of the more -like the operating -- the lower +academically, some of the more, +like, the operating-- the lower -613 +594 00:21:55,483 --> 00:21:57,783 level stuff is, you know, -interesting, maybe [chuckles], +interesting maybe [chuckles], -614 +595 00:21:57,783 --> 00:22:00,083 you know? I lo- -615 +596 00:22:00,314 --> 00:22:01,679 I totally lost my connection to -all of it. Like, I- I -- like -- +all of it. Like, I- I-- like-- -616 +597 00:22:01,679 --> 00:22:03,044 -and I -- +and I-- -617 +598 00:22:03,433 --> 00:22:04,543 like I said this before, that's- that's when I switched majors -618 +599 00:22:04,543 --> 00:22:05,653 out of -619 +600 00:22:05,653 --> 00:22:07,588 computer sciences was, I was deep into that- that ... like, -620 +601 00:22:07,588 --> 00:22:09,523 section, you -621 +602 00:22:09,523 --> 00:22:11,294 know what I mean? As, you know, -assembling, and I was doing -- I +assembling, and I was doing-- I -622 +603 00:22:11,294 --> 00:22:13,258 wasn't ... yeah, I don't know. I -don't think I was -- that +don't think I was-- that -623 +604 00:22:13,258 --> 00:22:15,222 -semester, had +semester had -624 +605 00:22:15,223 --> 00:22:17,668 even done anything where I got -to like hit save or compile and +to, like, hit save or compile -625 +606 00:22:17,668 --> 00:22:20,113 -see something +and see something -626 +607 00:22:20,683 --> 00:22:22,093 happen, you know what I mean [chuckles]? And it- and it was -627 +608 00:22:22,093 --> 00:22:23,503 -just like -- +just, like-- -628 +609 00:22:23,503 --> 00:22:26,128 and I lost my interest, you -know? And I think the -- it +know? And I think the-- it -629 +610 00:22:26,128 --> 00:22:28,753 seems -630 +611 00:22:28,759 --> 00:22:33,104 like you have acknowledged that in, you know, yourself and use -631 +612 00:22:33,104 --> 00:22:35,953 -that as — maybe whether it was -consciously or not — use that as +that as—maybe whether it was +consciously or not—use that as, -632 -00:22:35,953 --> 00:22:38,773 -like a sort of driving force in- -in finding, you know, your path, +613 +00:22:35,953 --> 00:22:37,363 +like, a sort of driving force +in- in finding, you know, your -633 +614 +00:22:37,363 --> 00:22:38,773 +path, + +615 00:22:38,923 --> 00:22:40,678 -and- and like your happiness. -Like, you could have, possibly, +and- and, like, your happiness. +Like, you could have, possibly-- -634 +616 00:22:40,678 --> 00:22:42,433 and -635 +617 00:22:42,433 --> 00:22:43,798 -maybe -- I mean, some people, I +maybe-- I mean, some people, I guess, could have forced -636 +618 00:22:43,798 --> 00:22:45,163 themselves down the -637 +619 00:22:45,163 --> 00:22:47,893 line of, you know, the electrical engineering and -638 +620 00:22:47,893 --> 00:22:50,623 gotten a job ... I -639 +621 00:22:50,624 --> 00:22:52,619 don't know, soldering things [chuckles] or something. I dunno -640 +622 00:22:52,619 --> 00:22:54,614 [laughs]. But- but- -641 +623 00:22:54,644 --> 00:22:56,354 but, you know, but like you ... -I don't know. It- it's -- I- I +I don't know. It- it's-- I- I -642 +624 00:22:56,354 --> 00:22:58,064 just -643 +625 00:22:58,068 --> 00:22:59,086 connect with that. I- I just -wanted to like, kind of +wanted to, like, kind of -644 +626 00:22:59,086 --> 00:23:00,104 highlight that -645 +627 00:23:00,108 --> 00:23:02,265 -because it's -- it- it -- -finding what makes you happy in +because it's-- it- it-- finding +what makes you happy in -646 +628 00:23:02,265 --> 00:23:04,422 a- in a field -647 +629 00:23:04,423 --> 00:23:05,608 is- is important. Especially com- field like computer -648 +630 00:23:05,608 --> 00:23:06,793 science, -649 +631 00:23:06,794 --> 00:23:08,908 because there are gonna be some people that ... will get into -650 +632 00:23:08,908 --> 00:23:11,022 those -651 +633 00:23:11,054 --> 00:23:13,874 microcontrollers and be totally hooked, you know? And- -652 +634 00:23:14,429 --> 00:23:14,743 Bogdan: Yeah, of course. Some find it cool [??], right? Yeah. -653 -00:23:14,743 --> 00:23:15,958 +635 +00:23:14,743 --> 00:23:17,173 Dan: -some people- some people not, you know? And ... right. -654 -00:23:15,958 --> 00:23:17,173 -Yeah. - -655 +636 00:23:17,743 --> 00:23:19,804 -No. So, I- I think that's great. +Yeah. No. So, I- I think that's +great. -656 +637 00:23:21,568 --> 00:23:22,603 Bogdan: Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, I'm not- I'm not- I'm not -657 +638 00:23:22,603 --> 00:23:23,638 ... -658 +639 00:23:23,818 --> 00:23:25,408 -yeah. It's just like -- also, +yeah. It's just, like-- also, like, I remember since I was -659 +640 00:23:25,408 --> 00:23:26,998 younger -660 -00:23:26,999 --> 00:23:28,768 +641 +00:23:26,999 --> 00:23:30,537 from high school, like, people had a thing for Arduinos, which -661 -00:23:28,768 --> 00:23:30,537 -I - -662 +642 00:23:30,544 --> 00:23:32,506 -think that- I- I think that- I -think that's what -- I think +I think that-- I- I think that-- +I think that's what-- I think -663 +643 00:23:32,506 --> 00:23:34,468 that's -664 +644 00:23:34,469 --> 00:23:35,923 why I thought it's gonna be -cool. Cuz like everybody was +cool. Cuz, like, everybody was -665 +645 00:23:35,923 --> 00:23:37,377 like, "Oh -666 +646 00:23:37,378 --> 00:23:39,133 -my god. Arduino. Like, you -- we +my god. Arduino. Like, you-- we have to do this," and things -667 +647 00:23:39,133 --> 00:23:40,888 like that. And -668 +648 00:23:41,259 --> 00:23:42,979 -I'm like, "I do -- okay +I'm like, "I do-- okay [chuckles]." I- I loved it, -669 +649 00:23:42,979 --> 00:23:44,699 right? I think it's cool. -670 +650 00:23:44,699 --> 00:23:47,013 Like, Raspberry Pis and things like that is fun. But ... yeah. -671 +651 00:23:47,013 --> 00:23:49,327 Yeah. I -672 +652 00:23:49,334 --> 00:23:52,058 think, I ... yeah. Like, there where I agree with you. -673 +653 00:23:52,058 --> 00:23:55,568 Like, I need to see immediate change, and I- I need a reaction -674 -00:23:55,568 --> 00:23:56,888 +654 +00:23:55,568 --> 00:23:58,208 from things I'm doing cuz otherwise, I feel like I spend -675 -00:23:56,888 --> 00:23:58,208 -the - -676 +655 00:23:58,209 --> 00:24:00,000 -whole day doing nothing. That's -not super- +the whole day doing nothing. +That's not super- -677 +656 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,000 Dan: Yeah. -678 +657 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,348 Bogdan: -productive [chuckles]. -679 -00:24:03,348 --> 00:24:06,063 +658 +00:24:03,348 --> 00:24:08,778 Bekah: So, when you were doing the research part of things, was -680 -00:24:06,063 --> 00:24:08,778 -that - -681 +659 00:24:08,999 --> 00:24:14,028 -more ... data sciencey or what -were you doing there? +that more ... data sciencey, or +what were you doing there? -682 +660 00:24:16,048 --> 00:24:17,698 Bogdan: Yeah. Kind of. Yeah. We had a lot of ... yeah. There -683 +661 00:24:17,698 --> 00:24:19,348 -was- +was-- -684 +662 00:24:19,378 --> 00:24:21,733 there- there was data science part, and again, diving in with -685 +663 00:24:21,733 --> 00:24:24,088 little -686 +664 00:24:24,094 --> 00:24:27,269 -data science knowledge, cuz I -didn't -- yeah, I didn't study +data science knowledge cuz I +didn't-- yeah, I didn't study -687 -00:24:27,269 --> 00:24:29,884 +665 +00:24:27,269 --> 00:24:32,499 that. I had ideas. I- I knew -Python, for example. But I got - -688 -00:24:29,884 --> 00:24:32,499 --- +Python, for example. But I got-- -689 +666 00:24:32,503 --> 00:24:35,251 -I- I- I got very -- I got- I -gotten -- [chuckles] get very +I- I- I got very-- I got- I +gotten-- [chuckles] get very -690 +667 00:24:35,251 --> 00:24:37,999 lucky to- to find this amazing -691 +668 00:24:38,058 --> 00:24:40,699 person that really, really took care of everything, like my -692 +669 00:24:40,699 --> 00:24:42,459 -mentor, and one of my manager, +mentor and one of my manager-- bosses, whatever. The person -693 +670 00:24:42,459 --> 00:24:44,219 that -694 -00:24:44,219 --> 00:24:45,898 +671 +00:24:44,219 --> 00:24:47,577 I actually got a job through. And she was super amazing. And -695 -00:24:45,898 --> 00:24:47,577 -she - -696 +672 00:24:47,578 --> 00:24:49,558 -found all these cool +she found all these cool opportunities, and all these -697 +673 00:24:49,558 --> 00:24:53,578 -relations, and connections, and +relations and connections, and papers we wrote, and projects we -698 +674 00:24:53,578 --> 00:24:56,188 got in. So, I had the time to- to learn it on- on the way, -699 +675 00:24:56,188 --> 00:24:58,798 right? -700 +676 00:24:58,798 --> 00:25:00,388 Like, I didn't have to worry like, "Oh, what am I gonna do -701 +677 00:25:00,388 --> 00:25:01,978 now?" I'm -702 +678 00:25:01,979 --> 00:25:03,418 -always just like, I knew what I -have to do, but I also knew +always just, like-- I knew what +I have to do, but I also knew -703 +679 00:25:03,418 --> 00:25:04,857 what- -704 +680 00:25:05,038 --> 00:25:09,644 what I have to learn. So there was amazing. But then we also -705 +681 00:25:09,644 --> 00:25:13,064 did APIs, for example, which was my previous job as well. And I -706 -00:25:13,064 --> 00:25:15,621 +682 +00:25:13,064 --> 00:25:18,178 think this is one of the things that ... kind of help them make -707 -00:25:15,621 --> 00:25:18,178 -the - -708 +683 00:25:18,179 --> 00:25:21,209 -decision to hire me cuz they +the decision to hire me cuz they were working already on these -709 -00:25:21,209 --> 00:25:23,143 +684 +00:25:21,209 --> 00:25:25,077 APIs. But again, related data, -like, they had -- we had a lot - -710 -00:25:23,143 --> 00:25:25,077 -of +like, they had-- we had a lot of -711 +685 00:25:25,078 --> 00:25:28,169 data. We needed to serve it to different sources, to different -712 +686 00:25:28,259 --> 00:25:31,739 other universities, for example, create some user interfaces, and -713 +687 00:25:31,739 --> 00:25:37,169 stuff like that. So we created this APIs ... for them. -714 -00:25:37,348 --> 00:25:38,773 +688 +00:25:37,348 --> 00:25:40,198 Which was more engineering, but -then, yeah. The data science - -715 -00:25:38,773 --> 00:25:40,198 -part, +then-- yeah. The data science -716 +689 00:25:40,199 --> 00:25:41,969 -we did a lot of machine +part, we did a lot of machine learning, and analysis, and NLP -717 +690 00:25:41,969 --> 00:25:43,739 for the papers -718 +691 00:25:43,743 --> 00:25:46,501 we were- we were writing. It's very [chuckles] different and -719 +692 00:25:46,501 --> 00:25:49,259 definitely -720 +693 00:25:49,259 --> 00:25:52,078 some- something that I really -enjoy doing, but I- I knew it -- +enjoy doing, but I- I knew it-- -721 +694 00:25:52,259 --> 00:25:54,239 the- the- the whole- the whole -way -- and it was almost three +way-- and it was almost three -722 +695 00:25:54,239 --> 00:25:56,219 years, -723 +696 00:25:56,219 --> 00:25:59,368 right? I knew the whole time, I don't wanna do that. I really -724 +697 00:25:59,374 --> 00:26:00,856 much enjoyed it. And I really much loved working with all -725 +698 00:26:00,856 --> 00:26:02,338 these -726 +699 00:26:02,344 --> 00:26:05,909 people, but I- I knew for sure, it's- it's not something I'm -727 +700 00:26:05,909 --> 00:26:08,646 gonna spend my, you know, my -next, whatever years doing. So +next whatever years doing. So -728 +701 00:26:08,646 --> 00:26:11,383 -it was like -- +it was, like-- -729 -00:26:11,384 --> 00:26:14,743 -Bekah: Was there- was there like -a moment that you realized that? +702 +00:26:11,384 --> 00:26:13,063 +Bekah: Was there- was there, +like, a moment that you realized -730 +703 +00:26:13,063 --> 00:26:14,742 +that? + +704 00:26:14,749 --> 00:26:19,094 Or it was just kind of like, "I can do this, but I'm not super -731 +705 00:26:19,094 --> 00:26:19,933 -interested in it."? +interested in it?" -732 +706 00:26:21,614 --> 00:26:23,188 Bogdan: Yeah ... We-well [laughs], I kind of learned on -733 +707 00:26:23,188 --> 00:26:24,762 the job, right? So I -734 +708 00:26:24,763 --> 00:26:28,064 didn't have a moment to actually reflect, but it was keep on -735 +709 00:26:28,068 --> 00:26:33,314 coming, keep on coming. I am talking about moving rectangles -736 +710 00:26:33,318 --> 00:26:35,923 again [chuckles]. This is very -serious, so don't- don't take it +serious, so-- don't- don't take -737 +711 00:26:35,923 --> 00:26:38,338 -too seriously, but it is. And I --- it's not that [chuckles] +it too seriously, but it is. And +I-- it's not that [chuckles] -738 +712 00:26:38,338 --> 00:26:40,753 seriously. But I ... so, -739 -00:26:41,209 --> 00:26:44,224 +713 +00:26:41,209 --> 00:26:47,239 look. I like ... I like things to- to- to look good. It's- it's -740 -00:26:44,224 --> 00:26:47,239 -very - -741 +714 00:26:47,239 --> 00:26:50,058 -silly, but I like the tools that -I use to look very good. +very silly, but I like the tools +that I use to look very good. -742 +715 00:26:51,318 --> 00:26:53,000 And Jupyter notebooks are not [laughs]. And of course, you can -743 +716 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,818 -load them in VSCode, and things +load them in VSCode and things like that. But the whole -744 +717 00:26:55,818 --> 00:26:59,778 -concept of like staring the +concept of, like, staring the whole day at those notebooks was -745 +718 00:26:59,778 --> 00:27:01,773 something ... it was something -weird for me. I was like, it's +weird for me. I was like, "It's -746 +719 00:27:01,773 --> 00:27:03,768 not -747 +720 00:27:03,769 --> 00:27:05,374 -supposed to be like that. I +supposed to be like that." I don't know if you ever worked -748 +721 00:27:05,374 --> 00:27:06,979 -wi-with data, +wi-with data -749 +722 00:27:06,979 --> 00:27:09,263 or with people that are doing data stuff, but those notebooks -750 +723 00:27:09,263 --> 00:27:11,547 are -751 +724 00:27:11,548 --> 00:27:15,269 getting extremely messy. I don't know if it's for everybody or it -752 +725 00:27:15,269 --> 00:27:17,428 was- it was just for us, it was -insanely messy. Like there's -- +insanely messy. Like, there's-- -753 +726 00:27:17,428 --> 00:27:19,587 -there- there's -- +there-- there's-- -754 +727 00:27:20,429 --> 00:27:22,378 there was impossible to, like, pick up a notebook I wrote, you -755 +728 00:27:22,378 --> 00:27:24,327 know, -756 +729 00:27:24,388 --> 00:27:25,633 -three weeks ago, and I still +three weeks ago and I still understand it. Like, it was- it -757 +730 00:27:25,633 --> 00:27:26,878 was -758 +731 00:27:26,878 --> 00:27:29,489 -insane. So I was like, I don't +insane. So I was like, "I don't know for how long I can, like, -759 +732 00:27:29,999 --> 00:27:33,111 -guessing my, you know, my- my -thoughts [chuckles], you know? +guessing my," you know, "my- my +thoughts [chuckles]," you know? -760 +733 00:27:33,111 --> 00:27:36,223 So, of course, -761 +734 00:27:36,223 --> 00:27:37,843 -I mean, there's -- there are -ways to do it better. It's not +I mean, there's-- there are ways +to do it better. It's not -762 +735 00:27:37,843 --> 00:27:39,463 like I -763 +736 00:27:39,463 --> 00:27:41,593 -tried everything. It was just -like ... the comfort of like +tried everything. It was just, +like ... the comfort of, like, -764 +737 00:27:41,593 --> 00:27:43,723 -working, +working -765 +738 00:27:43,729 --> 00:27:47,144 and things like that. I think more. And also, I didn't know, -766 +739 00:27:47,144 --> 00:27:48,861 and I still don't know, and I'm not at all interested in -767 +740 00:27:48,861 --> 00:27:50,578 -statistics, +statistics -768 +741 00:27:50,578 --> 00:27:54,328 which ... of course we can argue if that's important or not. But -769 +742 00:27:54,328 --> 00:27:55,963 I felt like I should. Like, we are talking ab- we were always -770 +743 00:27:55,963 --> 00:27:57,598 talking -771 +744 00:27:57,604 --> 00:28:00,781 about this models, and probab- probabilities, and numbers, and -772 +745 00:28:00,781 --> 00:28:03,958 constants, and things -773 +746 00:28:03,959 --> 00:28:06,838 like that, that I never had an -idea about, which I was +idea about—which I was -774 +747 00:28:06,844 --> 00:28:09,689 -trying to, but like, it seemed -like I'm really, really, really +trying to—but, like, it seemed +like I'm really, really, really, -775 +748 00:28:09,689 --> 00:28:13,588 -like behind all of this. And I +like, behind all of this. And I don't have the- the- the passion -776 +749 00:28:13,588 --> 00:28:14,608 to- to learn it. -777 +750 00:28:14,989 --> 00:28:19,638 Bekah: So it's ... oh, it sounds like you kind of knew what you -778 +751 00:28:19,638 --> 00:28:24,048 wanted to be doing and you did kind of enjoy that research -779 +752 00:28:24,048 --> 00:28:28,068 -aspect of things, but you knew -that was not gonna be like the +aspect of things but you knew +that was not gonna be, like, the -780 +753 00:28:28,068 --> 00:28:30,985 -place that you -- your ideal job +place that you-- your ideal job or what you wanted to be doing. -781 +754 00:28:30,985 --> 00:28:33,902 So, -782 -00:28:34,284 --> 00:28:37,373 +755 +00:28:34,284 --> 00:28:40,462 how did you make that decision to move from that research -783 -00:28:37,373 --> 00:28:40,462 -position - -784 +756 00:28:40,624 --> 00:28:43,503 -and do something that you would -rather be doing? +position and do something that +you would rather be doing? -785 +757 00:28:45,078 --> 00:28:47,613 Bogdan: So I- I never really knew what I wanted to do af- -786 +758 00:28:47,613 --> 00:28:50,148 -i-i-in- in the time -- +i-i-in- in the time-- -787 +759 00:28:51,019 --> 00:28:54,191 -the -- wh-what -- all I wanted -to- to do -- no. All I knew was, +the-- wh-what-- all I wanted to- +to do-- no. All I knew was-- -788 +760 00:28:54,191 --> 00:28:57,363 -so we- we were- we were +so we- we were-- we were -789 +761 00:28:57,364 --> 00:28:59,989 doing a lot of programming by the end of my employment list. -790 +762 00:28:59,989 --> 00:29:02,614 So on -791 +763 00:29:02,614 --> 00:29:04,668 the way ... after the last -summer -- so, basically last +summer-- so, basically last -792 +764 00:29:04,668 --> 00:29:06,722 -summer, +summer-- -793 -00:29:06,753 --> 00:29:08,763 +765 +00:29:06,753 --> 00:29:10,773 cuz I left in February, right? So, after the last summer, a lot -794 -00:29:08,763 --> 00:29:10,773 -of - -795 +766 00:29:10,983 --> 00:29:12,925 -other -- not a lot. Like, +of other-- not a lot. Like, important people that I was -796 +767 00:29:12,925 --> 00:29:14,867 working close -797 +768 00:29:14,868 --> 00:29:18,588 -with -- seniors, left. So I was +with-- seniors, left. So I was kind of around, trying stuff. -798 +769 00:29:18,588 --> 00:29:22,308 And -799 +770 00:29:22,608 --> 00:29:24,348 -having another -- other people, -like on the same level with me, +having another-- other people, +like, on the same level with me, -800 +771 00:29:24,348 --> 00:29:26,088 and -801 +772 00:29:26,088 --> 00:29:29,103 things like that, it's really became ... not, you know ... -802 +773 00:29:29,103 --> 00:29:32,118 productive. -803 +774 00:29:32,479 --> 00:29:33,619 And I'm not- and I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I think it's -804 +775 00:29:33,619 --> 00:29:34,759 a- it's a- it's -805 +776 00:29:34,759 --> 00:29:38,148 a great thing for them to kind of have the- the, you know, this -806 -00:29:38,358 --> 00:29:39,588 -growing experience, and maybe -growing pains, cuz it was still - -807 -00:29:39,588 --> 00:29:40,818 -a +777 +00:29:38,358 --> 00:29:40,818 +growing experience and maybe +growing pains cuz it was still a -808 +778 00:29:40,818 --> 00:29:44,959 very young lab, right? Kind of understand th-th-that seniorship -809 +779 00:29:45,078 --> 00:29:46,353 -matters, and things like that. +matters and things like that. And you need mentorship, and you -810 +780 00:29:46,353 --> 00:29:47,628 need -811 +781 00:29:47,628 --> 00:29:49,113 seniors, and things like that. So there was a thing. So I was- -812 +782 00:29:49,113 --> 00:29:50,598 I -813 -00:29:50,598 --> 00:29:52,263 +783 +00:29:50,598 --> 00:29:53,928 was slacking a little bit behind because I had a- I had a very -814 -00:29:52,263 --> 00:29:53,928 -weird - -815 +784 00:29:53,929 --> 00:29:59,959 -period after I got COVID. Even a -year after, I was still +weird period after I got COVID. +Even a year after, I was still -816 +785 00:29:59,959 --> 00:30:02,358 very sick and things like that. So they were very, very nice and -817 +786 00:30:02,358 --> 00:30:07,278 kind to allow me to- to- to work as- as- as much as I can. Which -818 +787 00:30:07,278 --> 00:30:09,843 was [chuckles] not a lot, right? So I- I- I did the work that I -819 +788 00:30:09,843 --> 00:30:12,408 had -820 -00:30:12,409 --> 00:30:15,169 -to do as- as- as much as I can, -and then when I got a little bit +789 +00:30:12,409 --> 00:30:13,789 +to do as- as- as much as I can. +And then, when I got a little -821 +790 +00:30:13,789 --> 00:30:15,169 +bit + +791 00:30:15,169 --> 00:30:19,713 better, I started looking for jobs. And I wasn't sure what I -822 +792 00:30:19,713 --> 00:30:22,548 want to do. I- I- I was ... I -think in -- by the end of the +think in-- by the end of the -823 +793 00:30:22,548 --> 00:30:25,383 year, I -824 +794 00:30:25,384 --> 00:30:27,131 think it was November or whatever, I've been to web -825 +795 00:30:27,131 --> 00:30:28,878 summit in -826 +796 00:30:28,878 --> 00:30:33,499 Lisbon. And I've seen all these companies, and all these -827 +797 00:30:33,729 --> 00:30:36,919 hot apps, and all these software engineers doing a lot of cool -828 -00:30:36,923 --> 00:30:38,105 +798 +00:30:36,923 --> 00:30:39,287 things. And I was like, "I wanna do cool things, but I didn't -829 -00:30:38,105 --> 00:30:39,287 -know - -830 +799 00:30:39,294 --> 00:30:41,286 -what a cool thing is +know what a cool thing is [chuckles]." But I just wanted -831 +800 00:30:41,286 --> 00:30:43,278 to, you know, I just -832 +801 00:30:43,284 --> 00:30:45,709 wanted to feel like I'm doing -very cool things, which I was +very cool things—which I was -833 +802 00:30:45,709 --> 00:30:46,788 -doing at the moment, but in a +doing at the moment—but in a different way. Not in an -834 +803 00:30:46,788 --> 00:30:47,867 academic -835 +804 00:30:47,868 --> 00:30:50,405 [chuckles] way, right? Yeah. And I just- I just applied to the -836 -00:30:50,405 --> 00:30:52,942 -startups - -837 -00:30:52,943 --> 00:30:54,668 -that I knew there are in -Netherlands, that kind of met +805 +00:30:50,405 --> 00:30:54,668 +startups that I knew there are +in Netherlands that kind of met -838 +806 00:30:54,668 --> 00:30:56,393 there a bunch to -839 +807 00:30:56,394 --> 00:30:58,611 another companies, and a bunch of agencies. Cuz I have a f- a -840 +808 00:30:58,611 --> 00:31:00,828 friend that is very -841 +809 00:31:00,828 --> 00:31:03,018 much into, like, agencies. He also has this very tiny agency, -842 +810 00:31:03,018 --> 00:31:05,208 -doing +doing, -843 +811 00:31:05,209 --> 00:31:08,439 -like branding and marketing for +like, branding and marketing for people, and things like that. -844 +812 00:31:08,778 --> 00:31:13,249 And he was living with me at the -moment. And -- but he was away, +moment. And-- but he was away, -845 +813 00:31:13,308 --> 00:31:15,063 and I was start to apply for jobs, and randomly told him -846 +814 00:31:15,063 --> 00:31:16,818 like, "Hey, -847 +815 00:31:16,824 --> 00:31:18,681 dude. I applied for this -creative agencies -- creative +creative agencies-- creative -848 +816 00:31:18,681 --> 00:31:20,538 agency in -849 +817 00:31:20,538 --> 00:31:22,473 Amsterdam. What do you think about it?" And then the flood -850 +818 00:31:22,473 --> 00:31:24,408 -gets over [??] -- +gets over [??]-- -851 +819 00:31:25,219 --> 00:31:27,094 and he showed me, and told me, and sent me all I could know -852 +820 00:31:27,094 --> 00:31:28,969 about [chuckles] -853 +821 00:31:29,598 --> 00:31:30,948 -agencies in The Netherlands, +agencies in the Netherlands, which is very cool. Cuz I wasn't -854 +822 00:31:30,948 --> 00:31:32,298 sure -855 +823 00:31:32,298 --> 00:31:33,573 if I wanted to do that, but it sta- finally started to make -856 +824 00:31:33,573 --> 00:31:34,848 sense. -857 +825 00:31:34,854 --> 00:31:38,088 Like, I need- I need something -very dynamic, and I need to move +very dynamic and I need to move -858 +826 00:31:38,088 --> 00:31:41,959 around. But I also need a structure which you sometimes, -859 +827 00:31:42,019 --> 00:31:45,739 arguably, don't get in startups and things like that. So -860 +828 00:31:45,739 --> 00:31:48,199 yeah, like, an agency seemed like a- like a- like a good -861 +829 00:31:48,199 --> 00:31:50,659 place. -862 +830 00:31:50,689 --> 00:31:52,793 But then I realized that ev- all of that is project dependent or -863 +831 00:31:52,793 --> 00:31:54,897 client -864 +832 00:31:54,898 --> 00:31:56,593 dependent, right? Like, you really need to- to match with- -865 +833 00:31:56,593 --> 00:31:58,288 with the -866 +834 00:31:58,288 --> 00:32:00,313 -client -- the right clients, -and, yeah, to have the ability +client-- the right clients, +and-- yeah, to have the ability -867 +835 00:32:00,313 --> 00:32:02,338 to- -868 +836 00:32:02,608 --> 00:32:03,928 to be as flexible as I want to be and things like that, which -869 +837 00:32:03,928 --> 00:32:05,248 of -870 +838 00:32:05,249 --> 00:32:11,878 course they could offer. So it's going ... well [chuckles]. Yeah. -871 +839 00:32:11,939 --> 00:32:13,558 Still not sure what I wanna do. I'm just around doing [laughs] -872 +840 00:32:14,189 --> 00:32:15,028 programming. -873 +841 00:32:15,693 --> 00:32:16,324 Bekah: Same. -874 +842 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,000 Bogdan: Yeah [laughs]. -875 +843 00:32:18,896 --> 00:32:22,557 Dan: Oh man. I- I actually wanted to swing back to sort of -876 +844 00:32:22,557 --> 00:32:24,987 -change topics, but, you were +change topics, but-- you were talking about teaching, I -877 +845 00:32:24,987 --> 00:32:28,856 think, when you were doing your master's, right? And you made a -878 +846 00:32:28,856 --> 00:32:32,027 -joke about teaching -- you're +joke about teaching-- you're basically teaching people how to -879 +847 00:32:32,027 --> 00:32:36,404 Google. But I- I wa- like, I feel like ... that's ... that it -880 +848 00:32:36,404 --> 00:32:40,781 -[clear throat] excuse me. +[clears throat] excuse me. -881 +849 00:32:40,781 --> 00:32:41,981 -Maybe that- that's not what you -expect from a professor, but +Maybe that-- that's not what you +expect from a professor but, -882 +850 00:32:41,981 --> 00:32:43,181 like, that -883 +851 00:32:43,182 --> 00:32:44,441 -is like the right way to learn -[chuckles] -- that's what we try +is, like, the right way to learn +[chuckles]-- that's what we try -884 +852 00:32:44,441 --> 00:32:45,700 to teach -885 +853 00:32:45,701 --> 00:32:49,076 everybody. Not profess- like, whatever. I don't know what you -886 -00:32:49,076 --> 00:32:52,451 -... - -887 -00:32:54,356 --> 00:32:56,666 -amateur teach? I- I don't know -[laughs]. +854 +00:32:49,076 --> 00:32:56,666 +... amateur teach? I- I don't +know [laughs]. -888 +855 00:32:56,922 --> 00:32:57,761 Bogdan: No, no, no. For sure. I know what you mean. Yeah. -889 +856 00:32:57,807 --> 00:32:58,721 Dan: Like the ... you know? But when I'm trying to help somebody -890 +857 00:32:58,721 --> 00:32:59,635 learn, -891 +858 00:32:59,636 --> 00:33:00,761 you know, one of the- one of the, like, learning how to -892 +859 00:33:00,761 --> 00:33:01,886 -Google things and +google things and -893 +860 00:33:01,886 --> 00:33:03,296 figure things out for yourself -is like one of the biggest +is, like, one of the biggest -894 +861 00:33:03,296 --> 00:33:04,706 skills to -895 +862 00:33:04,707 --> 00:33:08,037 learn when you're becoming a developer, right? Especially for -896 +863 00:33:08,037 --> 00:33:12,446 the first time. So I just wondered if you could tell me a -897 -00:33:12,446 --> 00:33:14,906 -little bit more about like that -experience of teaching in that +864 +00:33:12,446 --> 00:33:13,676 +little bit more about, like, +that experience of teaching in -898 -00:33:14,906 --> 00:33:19,346 -structured, you know, in a, like -a structured way as a- as a- +865 +00:33:13,676 --> 00:33:14,906 +that -899 +866 +00:33:14,906 --> 00:33:17,126 +structured, you know, in a-- +like, a structured way as a-- as + +867 +00:33:17,126 --> 00:33:19,346 +a-- + +868 00:33:19,346 --> 00:33:22,991 as a ... what- what do you call yourself? A professor? A- a ... -900 +869 00:33:22,991 --> 00:33:24,221 I don't know what the right -term, just -- +term, just-- -901 +870 00:33:24,432 --> 00:33:25,211 Bogdan: No. Teaching- teaching- teaching assistant, whatever. -902 +871 00:33:25,422 --> 00:33:26,831 Dan: Teaching assistant. Yeah. -So as a TA, like -- but like, +So as a TA, like-- but, like, -903 +872 00:33:26,831 --> 00:33:28,240 -what -- can you just +what-- can you just -904 +873 00:33:28,571 --> 00:33:30,476 describe a little bit more about -that? From like -- cuz I've +that? From, like-- cuz I've -905 +874 00:33:30,476 --> 00:33:32,381 watched -906 +875 00:33:32,382 --> 00:33:36,132 and been on both sides of, you know, learning from sort of -907 +876 00:33:36,136 --> 00:33:39,432 independent online version, right? But I don't think -908 +877 00:33:39,432 --> 00:33:42,791 we've had anybody on the podcast -who has, like, taught in that -- +who has, like, taught in that-- -909 +878 00:33:43,392 --> 00:33:47,201 taught computer science in this structured way. -910 +879 00:33:47,906 --> 00:33:48,386 -Bogdan: Yeah, it was -- it- it- -it -- +Bogdan: Yeah, it was-- it- it- +it-- -911 +880 00:33:48,432 --> 00:33:49,586 Dan: I know I might be misremembering this, Bekah, but -912 +881 00:33:49,586 --> 00:33:50,740 [chuckles] ... I'm pretty -913 +882 00:33:50,741 --> 00:33:51,000 -sure -- so I'd like to hear -about it. Could you just tell me +sure-- so I'd like to hear about +it. Could you just tell me -914 +883 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,781 more about that experience? -915 -00:33:53,217 --> 00:33:54,642 +884 +00:33:53,217 --> 00:33:56,067 Bogdan: No, for sure. But also, like, they take it with a grain -916 -00:33:54,642 --> 00:33:56,067 -of - -917 +885 00:33:56,067 --> 00:33:57,626 -salt. Like, I've been a -- I was -a TA. Like, I was still a +of salt. Like, I've been a-- I +was a TA. Like, I was still a -918 +886 00:33:57,626 --> 00:33:59,185 student, -919 +887 00:33:59,186 --> 00:34:00,836 -right? So I also being -- +right? So I also being-- -920 +888 00:34:01,031 --> 00:34:03,102 -Dan: Sure, sure. So you- so you +Dan: Sure, sure. So you-- so you weren't doing the lesson plans -921 +889 00:34:03,106 --> 00:34:03,107 and stuff, but- -922 +890 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,000 Bogdan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. -923 +891 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,000 -Dan: -still you were -- I- I -just would like to hear about +Dan: -still you were-- I- I just +would like to hear about -924 +892 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,000 it. Cuz it's- -925 +893 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,000 Bogdan: Yeah [laughs]. -926 +894 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,500 -Dan: -it's like the- the process -of learning this stuff is +Dan: -it's-- like, the- the +process of learning this stuff -927 +895 00:34:08,500 --> 00:34:10,000 -endlessly +is endlessly -928 +896 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,641 fascinating to me and ... you know? -929 -00:34:12,672 --> 00:34:14,142 +897 +00:34:12,672 --> 00:34:15,612 Bogdan: It is. I think it's very -... yeah, I think it's -- I +... yeah, I think it's-- I -930 -00:34:14,142 --> 00:34:15,612 -think - -931 +898 00:34:15,612 --> 00:34:17,021 -education, especially in +think education, especially in computer science is very -932 +899 00:34:17,021 --> 00:34:18,430 fascinating. -933 +900 00:34:18,431 --> 00:34:20,846 -Because it's so ... it's so, I -don't know. It's -- yeah. +Because it's so ... it's so-- I +don't know. It's-- yeah. -934 +901 00:34:20,846 --> 00:34:23,261 Anyways, [laughs] we'll -935 +902 00:34:23,262 --> 00:34:25,032 get in. Yeah, I think that ac- actually helped a lot. Like, -936 +903 00:34:25,032 --> 00:34:26,802 being -937 +904 00:34:26,802 --> 00:34:29,862 a TA helped a lot because I don't think people have too many -938 +905 00:34:29,862 --> 00:34:31,886 [chuckles] expectations, I think. I don't know. They -939 +906 00:34:31,886 --> 00:34:33,910 didn't. I had -940 +907 00:34:33,911 --> 00:34:38,757 great students, two times, cuz there were two periods. And -941 +908 00:34:38,757 --> 00:34:42,116 it was- i-i-it was interesting -cuz the -- that- that- that's +cuz the-- that- that- that's -942 +909 00:34:42,116 --> 00:34:45,475 why I think it's very -943 +910 00:34:45,476 --> 00:34:50,547 fascinating. Like, we had different people of different, -944 +911 00:34:50,876 --> 00:34:52,556 -like, levels, right? Like it -happened -- they were all in the +like, levels, right? Like, it +happened-- they were all in the -945 +912 00:34:52,556 --> 00:34:54,236 first -946 -00:34:54,237 --> 00:34:55,947 +913 +00:34:54,237 --> 00:34:57,657 year, most probably. Well, I think it was first year. Yeah. -947 -00:34:55,947 --> 00:34:57,657 -But - -948 +914 00:34:57,657 --> 00:34:59,157 -some of them had some +But some of them had some mathematics experience, some -949 +915 00:34:59,157 --> 00:35:00,657 programming, -950 +916 00:35:00,657 --> 00:35:04,947 -some none, and things like that, +some none, and things like that but they- they all seemed to- to -951 +917 00:35:05,007 --> 00:35:07,319 kind of like get stuck in the -same kind of places, which I +same kind of places which I -952 +918 00:35:07,319 --> 00:35:09,631 think -953 +919 00:35:09,632 --> 00:35:11,521 -it's- it's -- I think it's +it's- it's-- I think it's interesting. Like, I don't- I -954 +920 00:35:11,521 --> 00:35:15,572 don't know much about [chuckles] education. But I think it's very -955 +921 00:35:15,572 --> 00:35:19,561 interesting to kind of see how they deal in different ways -956 +922 00:35:19,802 --> 00:35:22,606 w-with that. And what I used to do and I thought it was very -957 +923 00:35:22,606 --> 00:35:25,410 -funny — +funny—not -958 +924 00:35:25,442 --> 00:35:27,152 -not funny in a mean way [laughs] -— it's just funny to- to just +funny in a mean way—[laughs] +it's just funny to- to just -959 +925 00:35:27,152 --> 00:35:28,862 observe -960 +926 00:35:28,862 --> 00:35:30,721 -it. It's just like, s-see how -they deal with it. And then +it. It's just, like, s-see how +they deal with it. And then, -961 +927 00:35:30,721 --> 00:35:32,580 like, let -962 +928 00:35:32,586 --> 00:35:34,944 -them deal with the -- in the way -of like -- I was like, "Oh, +them deal with the-- in the way +of-- like-- I was like, "Oh, -963 +929 00:35:34,944 --> 00:35:37,302 yeah. Look, your -964 +930 00:35:37,302 --> 00:35:39,161 colleague did it that way. Why -don't you like ... go around +don't you, like ... go around -965 +931 00:35:39,161 --> 00:35:41,020 this way," and -966 +932 00:35:41,021 --> 00:35:44,202 -things like that, which I think -it was a nice- it was a nice, +things like that which I think +it was a nice-- it was a nice, -967 +933 00:35:44,202 --> 00:35:46,016 like, not bonding experience, -but kind of in a way of like +but kind of in a way of, like, -968 +934 00:35:46,016 --> 00:35:47,830 level it -969 +935 00:35:47,831 --> 00:35:49,676 down, especially cuz for some -of- some of -- it was in my ear +of-- some of-- it was in my ear -970 +936 00:35:49,676 --> 00:35:51,521 as well. -971 +937 00:35:51,527 --> 00:35:53,894 Like, for some of us, it was so, -so like intimidating to know +so, like, intimidating to know -972 +938 00:35:53,894 --> 00:35:56,261 that we -973 +939 00:35:56,262 --> 00:35:59,922 had this people in the class that were, you know, having -974 +940 00:35:59,922 --> 00:36:02,231 experienced in programming and things like that. I don't know -975 +941 00:36:02,231 --> 00:36:04,156 -why. Cuz this is -- it's never a +why. Cuz this is-- it's never a competition [chuckles], right? -976 +942 00:36:04,156 --> 00:36:06,081 But it -977 +943 00:36:06,081 --> 00:36:07,446 was just weird. It was like, "Oh my god. They know everything and -978 +944 00:36:07,446 --> 00:36:08,811 I don't -979 +945 00:36:08,811 --> 00:36:10,341 know nothing [laughs]," and things like that. And then, -980 +946 00:36:10,341 --> 00:36:11,871 yeah, later it -981 +947 00:36:11,871 --> 00:36:15,771 happened for me to be in that position and, you know, showing -982 +948 00:36:15,771 --> 00:36:17,931 -people -- or students, as a TA, -like to ask those stupid +people-- or students, as a TA, +like, to ask those stupid -983 +949 00:36:17,931 --> 00:36:20,091 question is -984 +950 00:36:20,092 --> 00:36:22,882 -very important. And to Google +very important. And to google everything is very -985 +951 00:36:22,887 --> 00:36:25,954 important. Cuz I also never understood ... why it was seen -986 +952 00:36:25,954 --> 00:36:29,021 -so f- +so f- it- -987 +953 00:36:30,581 --> 00:36:32,891 -it- it was not seen as like, you -know, frowned upon. It's just +it was not seen as, like, you +know, frowned upon. It's just, -988 +954 00:36:32,891 --> 00:36:36,552 -like a thing of like the- the -stigma of like, 'Oh, I need to +like, a thing of, like, the- the +stigma of, like, "Oh, I need to -989 +955 00:36:36,552 --> 00:36:38,921 -know things.' It's just like, +know things." It's just, like, you don't know Java ... words or -990 +956 00:36:38,921 --> 00:36:41,290 whatever, you- -991 +957 00:36:41,291 --> 00:36:43,616 you know how to- to think [laughs], you know? So, yeah. I -992 +958 00:36:43,616 --> 00:36:45,941 think it was very -993 -00:36:46,362 --> 00:36:47,681 +959 +00:36:46,362 --> 00:36:49,000 cul- cultivating for me as well. -And also Googling in front of - -994 -00:36:47,681 --> 00:36:49,000 -people +And also googling in front of -995 +960 00:36:49,001 --> 00:36:50,172 -is cool cuz, you know, it's like --- +people is cool cuz, you know, +it's, like-- -996 +961 00:36:51,146 --> 00:36:52,106 -Dan: Yeah, yeah. So -- +Dan: Yeah, yeah. So-- -997 +962 00:36:52,181 --> 00:36:53,981 -Bogdan: I, especially -- I'm- -I'm good at Googling. So [all - -998 -00:36:53,981 --> 00:36:55,781 -laugh] I think, I- I like +Bogdan: I, especially-- I'm- I'm +good at googling. So [all -999 -00:36:55,782 --> 00:36:56,952 -to show off my skills as well. +963 +00:36:53,981 --> 00:36:56,952 +laugh] I think, I- I like to +show off my skills as well. -1000 +964 00:36:57,056 --> 00:36:58,796 Dan: Oh, and it is a skill, you -know? I mean, like, way -- a-and +know? I mean, like, way-- a-and -1001 +965 00:36:58,796 --> 00:37:00,536 -i-it's that -- +i-it's that-- -1002 +966 00:37:00,541 --> 00:37:03,836 -it's about like crafting the -right, you know, like, figure +it's about, like, crafting the +right-- you know, like, figure -1003 +967 00:37:03,836 --> 00:37:05,000 -out what to Google, you know +out what to google, you know what I mean, is- is- -1004 +968 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,000 Bogdan: Yeah. It's hard. -1005 +969 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,000 -Dan: -is hard. And- and that's -like -- that's something +Dan: -is hard. And- and that's-- +like, that's something -1006 +970 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,000 -I try to do some- some, you +I try to do, some- some-- you know, when people ask questions -1007 +971 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:18,056 is if it's something that was an -e-e-easy like ... Google search +e-e-easy, like ... Google search -1008 +972 00:37:18,061 --> 00:37:18,530 for me, I will try to share what I searched for [chuckles], you -1009 +973 00:37:18,530 --> 00:37:18,999 know? -1010 +974 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,000 Bogdan: Yeah. For sure, for sure. Yeah. -1011 +975 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,000 -Dan: Like- like not -- I don't, +Dan: Like- like, not-- I don't, like, claim that I knew this -1012 +976 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,396 off the top of my head, you -know, but like, I also wanna +know, but, like, I also wanna -1013 +977 00:37:26,396 --> 00:37:28,031 -try to, like -- I don't mean to +try to, like-- I don't mean to do that to be like, "You could -1014 +978 00:37:28,031 --> 00:37:29,666 have -1015 +979 00:37:29,672 --> 00:37:31,000 -just Googled this," you know? +just googled this," you know? You know what I mean? Like- -1016 +980 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,000 Bogdan: Sure. -1017 +981 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,323 -Dan: -cuz that's not like -- -there's that- that -- anytime +Dan: -cuz that's not, like-- +there's that- that-- anytime -1018 +982 00:37:33,323 --> 00:37:34,646 you're using that -1019 +983 00:37:34,646 --> 00:37:36,633 -'just' word, like the word -'just', it's probably a bad, +'just' word, like, the word +'just', it's probably a bad-- -1020 +984 00:37:36,633 --> 00:37:38,620 -like a- like a -- +like a-- like a-- -1021 +985 00:37:38,621 --> 00:37:42,851 you wanna rethink what you're -thinking because the -- I knew +thinking because the-- I knew -1022 +986 00:37:43,001 --> 00:37:44,276 the right terms to search for, to find that answer, you know -1023 +987 00:37:44,276 --> 00:37:45,551 what I -1024 +988 00:37:45,552 --> 00:37:49,032 mean? But not everybody does. -And, you know, you -- that's +And, you know, you-- that's -1025 +989 00:37:49,032 --> 00:37:51,612 something you learn over time. And it's- it's an important -1026 +990 00:37:51,612 --> 00:37:53,862 skill. With computer science, a lot of the answers are out -1027 +991 00:37:53,862 --> 00:37:57,000 there ... if you can find them, you know [chuckles]? -1028 +992 00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:58,000 Bogdan: Yeah. -1029 +993 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,415 Dan: I've also been trying to do -that on- on our- on our stream +that on- on our-- on our stream -1030 +994 00:38:00,415 --> 00:38:02,830 sometimes is- is just -1031 +995 00:38:02,862 --> 00:38:06,192 -Google things. The same thing, -you know? Cuz we're- we're just +google things. The same thing, +you know? Cuz we're- we're just, -1032 +996 00:38:06,192 --> 00:38:07,632 -like learning at -- you know, +like, learning at-- you know, Kirk and I are doing that -1033 +997 00:38:07,632 --> 00:38:09,072 TypeScript -1034 +998 00:38:09,072 --> 00:38:12,192 Tuesdays and so, I'm learn- Kirk is mostly teaching, I'm mostly -1035 +999 00:38:12,192 --> 00:38:13,737 -learning [chuckles]. But it's +learning [chuckles]. But it's, like ... yeah, we just didn't -1036 +1000 00:38:13,737 --> 00:38:15,282 know something. So we -1037 +1001 00:38:15,282 --> 00:38:17,246 -looked it up and there's no -- I +looked it up and there's no-- I don't feel bad about that -1038 +1002 00:38:17,246 --> 00:38:19,210 [chuckles] at all, -1039 +1003 00:38:19,211 --> 00:38:20,621 you know? And- and nor should I, you know? I- I think that's a -1040 +1004 00:38:20,621 --> 00:38:22,031 great ... -1041 +1005 00:38:22,061 --> 00:38:25,331 I dunno. That's a great attitude to have. I- I would -1042 +1006 00:38:25,336 --> 00:38:28,302 -love to see that as a- as a TA, -you know? Cuz I think it's -- it +love to see that as a-- as a TA, +you know? Cuz I think it's-- it -1043 +1007 00:38:28,811 --> 00:38:30,926 -can be easy to -- when you are +can be easy to-- when you are ... when you're teaching or in -1044 +1008 00:38:30,926 --> 00:38:33,041 that -1045 +1009 00:38:33,222 --> 00:38:35,381 -position of like ... I dunno, +position of, like ... I dunno, teaching somebody [chuckles]. It -1046 +1010 00:38:35,381 --> 00:38:37,540 -could be +could be easy -1047 +1011 00:38:37,541 --> 00:38:39,626 -easy to like, wanna ... know the -answers or wanna like -- I, like +to, like, wanna ... know the +answers or wanna, like-- I, -1048 +1012 00:38:39,626 --> 00:38:41,711 --- seem +like-- seem -1049 +1013 00:38:41,711 --> 00:38:44,411 -like, you know the answers so +like you know the answers so that people trust you more or -1050 +1014 00:38:44,411 --> 00:38:45,896 -something like — no, not in like -a nefarious way, but just as a +something, like-- no, not in, +like, a nefarious way, but just -1051 +1015 00:38:45,896 --> 00:38:47,381 -... as +as a ... as-- -1052 +1016 00:38:47,387 --> 00:38:49,139 like a ... I don't know. For me. This is my personal speaking. -1053 +1017 00:38:49,139 --> 00:38:50,891 It- -1054 +1018 00:38:50,891 --> 00:38:52,406 it's like I- I can fall into -that trap. And I- and I try not +that trap. And I-- and I try -1055 +1019 00:38:52,406 --> 00:38:53,921 --- like, +not-- like, -1056 +1020 00:38:54,661 --> 00:38:56,578 -I- I- I -- it takes effort to, -sometimes for me, to like, not - -1057 -00:38:56,578 --> 00:38:58,495 -do that, +I- I- I-- it takes effort +to—sometimes, for me—to, like, -1058 -00:38:59,126 --> 00:39:00,000 -you know [chuckles]? +1021 +00:38:56,578 --> 00:39:00,000 +not do that, you know +[chuckles]? -1059 +1022 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:00,000 Bogdan: Yeah. [Unintelligible]. -1060 +1023 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,500 Dan: Because I don't, obviously, know everything and ... I don't -1061 +1024 00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:03,000 know. -1062 +1025 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,000 -Bekah: I think -- +Bekah: I think-- -1063 +1026 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,652 Dan: And it's okay, you know? -It's like -- +It's, like-- -1064 +1027 00:39:05,652 --> 00:39:09,012 Bekah: So much of it is based on -our education, right? Because +our education, right? Because, -1065 +1028 00:39:09,012 --> 00:39:12,822 -like you're tested, and you're +like, you're tested, and you're expected to know information, -1066 +1029 00:39:12,882 --> 00:39:16,452 right? You're not expected to look up information and find the -1067 +1030 00:39:16,452 --> 00:39:21,552 -answers. And so then going on +answers. And so then, going on through years of doing that, -1068 +1031 00:39:21,552 --> 00:39:23,786 -there's -- it- it feels like -it's not successful to have to +there's-- it- it feels like it's +not successful to have to -1069 +1032 00:39:23,786 --> 00:39:26,020 look -1070 +1033 00:39:26,021 --> 00:39:29,081 -something up like, "Oh, you +something up. Like, "Oh, you failed. You should already know -1071 -00:39:29,081 --> 00:39:31,076 -this." But it's -- that's not -the case, especially with this - -1072 -00:39:31,076 --> 00:39:33,071 -now. +1034 +00:39:29,081 --> 00:39:33,071 +this." But it's-- that's not the +case, especially with this -1073 +1035 00:39:33,077 --> 00:39:37,572 -So, you know, it's always how to -find the answer is more +now. So, you know, it's always +how to find the answer is more -1074 +1036 00:39:37,572 --> 00:39:42,222 important. And I read a tweet. I don't know who tweeted it out, -1075 +1037 00:39:42,222 --> 00:39:45,161 -but it was like, the difference +but it was, like, the difference between a junior developer and a -1076 +1038 00:39:45,166 --> 00:39:49,646 senior developer is they're more effective. Senior developers are -1077 +1039 00:39:49,646 --> 00:39:51,000 -more effective at Googling. You +more effective at googling. You just get- -1078 +1040 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,000 Bogdan: It's true. For sure. -1079 +1041 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,128 Bekah: -faster, you know more words that you can use, you can -1080 +1042 00:39:55,128 --> 00:39:58,256 narrow it down more quickly. -1081 +1043 00:39:58,317 --> 00:40:00,979 -And- and I think that that- +And- and I think that that-- that's ... a lot of what it is -1082 +1044 00:40:00,979 --> 00:40:03,641 [chuckles], right? Like, -1083 +1045 00:40:03,911 --> 00:40:06,086 knowing what to look for and what the approach is because you -1084 +1046 00:40:06,086 --> 00:40:08,261 ha- you -1085 +1047 00:40:08,262 --> 00:40:12,612 have to figure it out. And tech moves too quickly to memorize -1086 +1048 00:40:12,672 --> 00:40:15,356 everything that you're doing. So -kn-knowing how to Google and +kn-knowing how to google and -1087 +1049 00:40:15,356 --> 00:40:18,040 knowing -1088 +1050 00:40:18,041 --> 00:40:20,576 that that's what's expected of -you, I -- is really important. +you, I-- is really important. -1089 +1051 00:40:20,576 --> 00:40:23,111 -It's a -- +It's a-- -1090 +1052 00:40:23,112 --> 00:40:27,461 you are should not be asking for the answers every time you hit a -1091 +1053 00:40:27,461 --> 00:40:29,201 roadblock. You should be looking things up and figuring out how -1092 +1054 00:40:29,201 --> 00:40:30,941 -to +to do -1093 +1055 00:40:30,942 --> 00:40:33,851 -do them. And that's, Nick and I --- Nick Taylor and I did a Lunch +them. And that's-- Nick and I-- +Nick Taylor and I did a Lunch -1094 +1056 00:40:33,851 --> 00:40:36,056 and Learn ... last week? Where we kind of talked about like, -1095 +1057 00:40:36,056 --> 00:40:38,261 -what do you +"What do you -1096 +1058 00:40:38,262 --> 00:40:40,632 do? How do you navigate those challenges? How do you ask -1097 +1059 00:40:40,637 --> 00:40:44,052 -questions? That kind of thing. +questions," that kind of thing. Cuz it's important. -1098 +1060 00:40:44,097 --> 00:40:46,091 -Bogdan: Yeah, it is. I- I- I, +Bogdan: Yeah, it is. I- I- I-- yeah. I think that's great, the- -1099 +1061 00:40:46,091 --> 00:40:48,085 the- the -1100 +1062 00:40:48,086 --> 00:40:51,086 -way you put it. Because I find --- so what I think about is +way you put it. Because I find-- +so, what I think about is -1101 +1063 00:40:51,117 --> 00:40:53,157 [unintelligible] that [chuckles] -I find, with all due respect and +I find-- with all due respect -1102 +1064 00:40:53,157 --> 00:40:55,197 -love for my parents, +and love for my parents— -1103 +1065 00:40:55,197 --> 00:40:58,246 -for example, that call me every +for example—that call me every time their phone doesn't work, -1104 +1066 00:40:58,246 --> 00:41:00,987 right? And I'm thinking about -this. Cuz it's like, look, what +this. Cuz it's like, "Look, what -1105 +1067 00:41:00,987 --> 00:41:02,809 I'm doing is just goo- I don't -know your phone by heart, you +know your phone by heart," you -1106 +1068 00:41:02,809 --> 00:41:04,631 know? -1107 +1069 00:41:04,751 --> 00:41:06,791 -You -- they also have Android -phone [laughs]. So, I'm like -- +You-- they also have Android +phone [laughs]. So, I'm like-- -1108 +1070 00:41:06,791 --> 00:41:08,831 no, I'm not saying it is -1109 +1071 00:41:08,831 --> 00:41:11,862 -a weird thing. I just like, I +a weird thing. I just, like, I didn't use an Android for eight -1110 +1072 00:41:11,867 --> 00:41:13,184 -years now. I'm like -- I'm not +years now. I'm like-- I'm not gonna- I'm not gonna know what -1111 +1073 00:41:13,184 --> 00:41:14,501 you do- -1112 +1074 00:41:15,132 --> 00:41:16,197 what do you have to press. I'm -just gonna Google it and things +just gonna google it and things -1113 +1075 00:41:16,197 --> 00:41:17,262 like -1114 -00:41:17,262 --> 00:41:22,061 +1076 +00:41:17,262 --> 00:41:19,661 that. But then I kind of took -one step back and realized like +one step back and realized, -1115 +1077 +00:41:19,661 --> 00:41:22,060 +like, + +1078 00:41:22,152 --> 00:41:25,211 what- what happened with me at -least? And I don't know, I'm not +least? And-- I don't know. I'm -1116 +1079 00:41:25,211 --> 00:41:27,071 -sure for how many other, like, -people Eastern Europeans +not sure for how many other, +like, people Eastern Europeans -1117 +1080 00:41:27,071 --> 00:41:28,931 [chuckles], is that -1118 +1081 00:41:28,931 --> 00:41:30,941 relatable? Not the Eastern Europeans. Everybody that -1119 +1082 00:41:30,941 --> 00:41:32,951 doesn't -1120 +1083 00:41:33,431 --> 00:41:35,051 speak natively English, I -believe. Like, we didn't -- I +believe. Like, we didn't-- I -1121 +1084 00:41:35,051 --> 00:41:36,671 didn't have a -1122 +1085 00:41:36,677 --> 00:41:38,737 computer for a very long time, right? And when I had it f-for -1123 +1086 00:41:38,737 --> 00:41:40,797 the -1124 +1087 00:41:40,797 --> 00:41:44,007 -first time, I was young -- still -young, but like, I didn't know +first time, I was young-- still +young, but, like, I didn't know -1125 +1088 00:41:44,007 --> 00:41:45,806 English. But [chuckles] until once I started to learn English, -1126 +1089 00:41:45,806 --> 00:41:47,605 I realized how -1127 +1090 00:41:47,606 --> 00:41:50,967 -much -- how many things you can -Google, and how many YouTube +much-- how many things you can +google, and how many YouTube -1128 +1091 00:41:50,967 --> 00:41:53,007 videos you can watch. It was insane [laughs]. It was like -1129 +1092 00:41:53,007 --> 00:41:55,047 the- the -1130 +1093 00:41:55,047 --> 00:41:57,597 whole world open. And finally, I -started to Google everything. +started to google everything. -1131 +1094 00:41:57,717 --> 00:41:59,231 Like ... even for my mom, like, I was like, "Hey, do you need -1132 +1095 00:41:59,231 --> 00:42:00,745 this?" -1133 +1096 00:42:00,746 --> 00:42:03,146 -And na, na, na. Yeah. And then, -I think that's a thing. +And na, na, na. Yeah. And then I +think that's a thing. -1134 +1097 00:42:03,146 --> 00:42:05,757 Like, I think that's where they- they- they draw the line, -1135 +1098 00:42:05,757 --> 00:42:09,222 -you know? It's just like ... +you know? It's just, like ... navigating the internet to- to -1136 +1099 00:42:09,222 --> 00:42:11,546 finances and things like that. -Which of course, it learn -- +Which of course, it learn-- -1137 +1100 00:42:11,546 --> 00:42:13,870 i-it's a skill, -1138 +1101 00:42:13,871 --> 00:42:16,722 right? Like, you have to learn it. They didn't take the time to -1139 +1102 00:42:16,722 --> 00:42:18,492 do it, so that's okay. I'm gonna -do it for them [laughs]. But +do it for them [laughs]. But-- -1140 +1103 00:42:18,492 --> 00:42:20,262 yeah, -1141 -00:42:20,382 --> 00:42:23,081 +1104 +00:42:20,382 --> 00:42:21,731 like, I think that's- that's- -that's, yeah. That's like, yeah. +that's-- yeah. That's, like-- -1142 +1105 +00:42:21,731 --> 00:42:23,080 +yeah. + +1106 00:42:23,222 --> 00:42:27,282 How- how you're supposed to- to- to think about things. Like, -1143 +1107 00:42:27,282 --> 00:42:30,012 am I supposed to know my phone by heart? No, of course not. Cuz -1144 +1108 00:42:30,012 --> 00:42:32,681 it has ... thousands of menus. -1145 +1109 00:42:34,106 --> 00:42:35,111 Bekah: Well, it's not necessary, you know? Like the other thing. -1146 +1110 00:42:35,111 --> 00:42:36,116 -We need to -- +We need to-- -1147 +1111 00:42:36,461 --> 00:42:37,886 Bogdan: Exactly. Why would you -add -- exactly. Yeah. Why would +add-- exactly. Yeah. Why would -1148 +1112 00:42:37,886 --> 00:42:39,311 you adding -1149 +1113 00:42:39,311 --> 00:42:42,034 all of that if you do it once a year or whatever [chuckles]? -1150 +1114 00:42:42,034 --> 00:42:44,757 Which happened -1151 +1115 00:42:44,757 --> 00:42:47,007 -to me, by the way, about -- +to me, by the way, about-- talking about phone. I'm sorry -1152 +1116 00:42:47,007 --> 00:42:49,257 [laughs]. I was- -1153 +1117 00:42:49,257 --> 00:42:51,431 I was coming back from a concert -the other week. And it was like +the other week. And it was, -1154 +1118 00:42:51,431 --> 00:42:53,605 -a +like, a -1155 +1119 00:42:53,666 --> 00:42:56,471 three hours train ride, and my -phone just froze. And it was- it +phone just froze. And it was-- -1156 +1120 00:42:56,471 --> 00:42:59,276 -was not +it was not -1157 +1121 00:42:59,277 --> 00:43:02,277 -dead, but it was just like, the -screen was open, but I couldn't +dead, but it was just, like, the +screen was open but I couldn't -1158 +1122 00:43:02,277 --> 00:43:04,481 click anything. And I tried to restarted it the way I know it -1159 +1123 00:43:04,481 --> 00:43:06,685 [chuckles] and -1160 +1124 00:43:06,686 --> 00:43:08,264 things like that. And it didn't work. And I s- I didn't have -1161 +1125 00:43:08,264 --> 00:43:09,842 anything -1162 -00:43:09,842 --> 00:43:11,221 +1126 +00:43:09,842 --> 00:43:12,600 on me. Like, all it was just my phone and my wallet. So I sit on -1163 -00:43:11,221 --> 00:43:12,600 -a - -1164 +1127 00:43:12,601 --> 00:43:15,031 -train for three hours doing +a train for three hours doing nothing. Which was a new -1165 +1128 00:43:15,031 --> 00:43:17,461 experience [laughs], you -1166 +1129 00:43:17,461 --> 00:43:21,211 know? I never- I never get to do that. Also in the middle of the -1167 +1130 00:43:21,211 --> 00:43:23,911 night. But then I got home, -Google it from my laptop, and +google it from my laptop, and -1168 +1131 00:43:23,911 --> 00:43:27,362 there is a second way to restart your phone, you know? And that -1169 -00:43:27,362 --> 00:43:29,326 +1132 +00:43:27,362 --> 00:43:31,290 worked actually. And I was like, "Wow, should I know this? I -1170 -00:43:29,326 --> 00:43:31,290 -don't- - -1171 +1133 00:43:31,291 --> 00:43:32,251 -I don't think so [laughs]." +don't- I don't think so +[laughs]." -1172 +1134 00:43:32,396 --> 00:43:33,191 Dan: Why didn't you just look it up on your phone [Dan and Bekah -1173 +1135 00:43:33,191 --> 00:43:33,986 chuckle]? -1174 +1136 00:43:34,181 --> 00:43:36,536 Bogdan: Yeah, exactly. Why, right? Yeah [laughs]. Exactly. -1175 +1137 00:43:36,536 --> 00:43:38,891 Yeah. -1176 +1138 00:43:39,356 --> 00:43:39,806 Dan: Yeah. -1177 +1139 00:43:40,032 --> 00:43:41,727 Bogdan: Yeah. No, but it was a nice three hours of ... thinking -1178 +1140 00:43:41,727 --> 00:43:43,422 [unintelligible]. -1179 +1141 00:43:43,422 --> 00:43:44,000 -Dan: Wow. So did you like- +Dan: Wow. So did you, like- -1180 +1142 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:45,000 Bekah: It was tough. -1181 +1143 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,375 -Dan: -did you like, go into +Dan: -did you, like, go into alternate dimensions or -1182 +1144 00:43:47,375 --> 00:43:49,750 something [all laugh]? You do a zen, you know? -1183 +1145 00:43:49,751 --> 00:43:53,652 Bogdan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was weird. I wished- I wished -1184 +1146 00:43:53,652 --> 00:43:56,501 people would just sit in the -same, like kind of train +same, like, kind of train -1185 +1147 00:43:56,501 --> 00:43:59,141 -compartment with me, and speak +compartment with me and speak English, cuz everybody was -1186 +1148 00:43:59,141 --> 00:44:01,961 speaking Dutch around me. And I was like, "Please someone speak -1187 +1149 00:44:01,961 --> 00:44:03,611 -English. So --" I just- I just +English. So ..." I just- I just wanted to hear it. I didn't -1188 +1150 00:44:03,611 --> 00:44:05,261 -[laughs]- I didn't +[laughs]-- I didn't -1189 +1151 00:44:05,262 --> 00:44:06,762 wanna talk with them. I just -wanted to hear so I haven't to +wanted to hear so I haven't to, -1190 +1152 00:44:06,762 --> 00:44:08,262 -like think +like, think -1191 +1153 00:44:08,262 --> 00:44:10,000 about ... it's weird. I never get to do that. -1192 +1154 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,000 Bekah: Do you speak Dutch? -1193 +1155 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,861 Bogdan: No [laughs]. No, I don't. So that's why. But yeah, -1194 +1156 00:44:13,861 --> 00:44:16,722 -I don't -- I never get to- to- -to +I don't-- I never get to- to- to -1195 +1157 00:44:16,726 --> 00:44:18,748 think [chuckles] on my own. I always have music playing in a -1196 -00:44:18,748 --> 00:44:20,770 -background or - -1197 -00:44:20,771 --> 00:44:22,152 -something. It's very weird. +1158 +00:44:18,748 --> 00:44:22,152 +background or something. It's +very weird. -1198 +1159 00:44:23,411 --> 00:44:25,241 Bekah: Yeah. It's interesting how much time we occupy our -1199 +1160 00:44:25,241 --> 00:44:27,071 brains -1200 +1161 00:44:27,311 --> 00:44:29,756 -constantly. Like there's a- a -need -- I read this book, I -- +constantly. Like, there's a- a +need-- I read this book, I-- -1201 +1162 00:44:29,756 --> 00:44:32,201 "Bored and -1202 +1163 00:44:32,202 --> 00:44:35,652 Brilliant" maybe? Somebody recommended it to me. And it was -1203 +1164 00:44:35,652 --> 00:44:39,311 really good. Like, your brain needs time to be able to process -1204 +1165 00:44:39,311 --> 00:44:42,031 different things, to be creative -to, you know, like store +to, you know, like, store -1205 +1166 00:44:42,031 --> 00:44:44,751 knowledge that -1206 +1167 00:44:44,757 --> 00:44:47,709 you have accumulated. And I think that we don't do that. I -1207 +1168 00:44:47,709 --> 00:44:50,661 -mean, I -- +mean, I-- -1208 -00:44:50,961 --> 00:44:52,941 +1169 +00:44:50,961 --> 00:44:54,921 like, I'm in the car, I have a podcast on. I'm going for a run, -1209 -00:44:52,941 --> 00:44:54,921 -I - -1210 +1170 00:44:54,922 --> 00:44:58,282 -have a podcast on. I'm in my +I have a podcast on. I'm in my house, I have four kids. Nobody -1211 +1171 00:44:58,282 --> 00:45:00,427 -[chuckles] ever stops. Like, I +[chuckles] ever stops. Like-- I feel like I might be afraid of -1212 +1172 00:45:00,427 --> 00:45:02,572 silence at -1213 +1173 00:45:02,722 --> 00:45:04,746 this point. Like, what- what will happen if I spend 10 -1214 -00:45:04,746 --> 00:45:06,770 -minutes - -1215 -00:45:06,771 --> 00:45:08,661 -being silent? Let alone three -hours. Like -- +1174 +00:45:04,746 --> 00:45:08,661 +minutes being silent? Let alone +three hours. Like-- -1216 +1175 00:45:09,356 --> 00:45:10,946 Bogdan: I- I think I am. But I -don't know. I never re- I never- +don't know. I never re- I -1217 +1176 00:45:10,946 --> 00:45:12,536 -I never +never-- I never -1218 +1177 00:45:12,536 --> 00:45:15,416 got the time to actually think about it. I- I bet I am, right? -1219 -00:45:15,416 --> 00:45:17,216 -Like, I can -- I should be able +1178 +00:45:15,416 --> 00:45:19,016 +Like, I can-- I should be able to go on a walk and not listen -1220 -00:45:17,216 --> 00:45:19,016 -to - -1221 +1179 00:45:19,021 --> 00:45:21,044 -music, right? Like, that's- +to music, right? Like, that's- that's what I was sup- but I -1222 +1180 00:45:21,044 --> 00:45:23,067 -can't, and I +can't and I -1223 +1181 00:45:23,067 --> 00:45:26,277 think it's weird. Like, I- I don't know. It's a very weird -1224 +1182 00:45:26,282 --> 00:45:27,297 thing. And I don't wanna ... I don't know. -1225 +1183 00:45:27,331 --> 00:45:28,183 Dan: Yeah. I have the same -thing. I have- I have +thing. I have-- I have -1226 +1184 00:45:28,183 --> 00:45:29,035 -[unintelligible] -- +[unintelligible]-- -1227 +1185 00:45:29,126 --> 00:45:30,011 Bekah: So none of us up meditating then, we're not -1228 +1186 00:45:30,011 --> 00:45:30,896 -[chuckles], like -- +[chuckles], like-- -1229 +1187 00:45:31,166 --> 00:45:31,586 Dan: Oh god. -1230 +1188 00:45:31,766 --> 00:45:32,786 Bogdan: No way. There's no way it's gonna work. Tr- [chuckles] -1231 +1189 00:45:32,786 --> 00:45:33,806 -yeah. Try [unintelligible] -- +yeah. Try [unintelligible]-- -1232 +1190 00:45:35,367 --> 00:45:37,467 -Dan: I ... yeah. No, I have the --- so I have the AirPods Pro, +Dan: I ... yeah. No, I have +the-- so I have the AirPods Pro, -1233 +1191 00:45:37,467 --> 00:45:39,567 -and so like +and so, like, -1234 +1192 00:45:39,567 --> 00:45:40,991 to push play, you- you squeeze the thing that sticks down, you -1235 +1193 00:45:40,991 --> 00:45:42,415 -know? +know? And -1236 +1194 00:45:42,867 --> 00:45:45,972 -And the other day I walked outta -my office and I didn't have them +the other day, I walked outta my +office and I didn't have them -1237 +1195 00:45:45,972 --> 00:45:47,036 in, but I thought I had them in, and I squeezed my ear a little -1238 +1196 00:45:47,036 --> 00:45:48,100 -[Dan and Bekah laugh]- +[Dan and Bekah laugh]-- -1239 +1197 00:45:49,141 --> 00:45:50,811 a little, and I'm like, "Well, that was- that was really -1240 +1198 00:45:50,811 --> 00:45:52,481 weird." -1241 +1199 00:45:53,277 --> 00:45:53,817 Bogdan: Wow. -1242 +1200 00:45:54,041 --> 00:45:55,751 Dan: I'm just so used to having them in my ears [laughs]. -1243 +1201 00:45:57,597 --> 00:45:57,597 Bogdan: Wow. -1244 +1202 00:45:57,597 --> 00:45:58,000 -Bekah: Are you -- +Bekah: Are you-- -1245 +1203 00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,000 Bogdan: That's embarrassing [laughs]. -1246 +1204 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:01,001 -Bekah: So now -- - -1247 -00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:02,036 -Dan: Like, yeah. I need to -listen to my podcast for 30 +Bekah: So now-- -1248 -00:46:02,036 --> 00:46:03,072 -seconds +1205 +00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,072 +Dan: Like-- yeah. I need to +listen to my podcast for 30 -1249 +1206 00:46:03,077 --> 00:46:04,302 -while I go get water. Like -- +seconds while I go get water. +Like-- -1250 +1207 00:46:04,302 --> 00:46:05,000 Bekah: Yeah. -1251 +1208 00:46:05,382 --> 00:46:06,000 Bogdan: Yeah, exactly [laughs]. -1252 +1209 00:46:05,382 --> 00:46:07,481 Bekah: Yeah. No, it's true! Yeah. -1253 +1210 00:46:08,217 --> 00:46:09,431 Bogdan: I do that. Yeah. Or on the toilet. Like, I- I got to -1254 +1211 00:46:09,431 --> 00:46:10,645 going to the toilet. I -1255 +1212 00:46:10,646 --> 00:46:14,456 -can't just like ... peeing [??]. -That's weird. +can't just, like ... peeing +[??]. That's weird. -1256 +1213 00:46:15,387 --> 00:46:17,562 Bekah: Yeah. Have to be occupied [laughs]. I will say it's- it's -1257 +1214 00:46:17,562 --> 00:46:19,737 nice weather -1258 +1215 00:46:19,737 --> 00:46:22,646 -here. Like very spring weather, +here. Like, very spring weather, and my kids like to swing on the -1259 +1216 00:46:22,646 --> 00:46:24,551 swings, and I like to swing on -the swings, and that is like +the swings, and that is, like, -1260 +1217 00:46:24,551 --> 00:46:26,456 maybe the -1261 +1218 00:46:26,456 --> 00:46:29,016 -only time that I can just -- I'm +only time that I can just-- I'm still, like, moving and ... my -1262 +1219 00:46:29,016 --> 00:46:31,576 brother -1263 +1220 00:46:31,577 --> 00:46:34,067 was telling me ... I can't remember. I think it was a -1264 +1221 00:46:34,067 --> 00:46:36,227 neurologist that- that was saying, "To improve your memory, -1265 +1222 00:46:36,227 --> 00:46:38,387 you -1266 +1223 00:46:38,387 --> 00:46:42,106 should try thinking in complete -sentences for like 10 minutes a +sentences for, like, 10 minutes -1267 +1224 00:46:42,106 --> 00:46:43,741 -day," or something. And so -[chuckles] the other day I was +a day," or something. And so +[chuckles] the other day, I was, -1268 +1225 00:46:43,741 --> 00:46:45,376 -like practicing +like, practicing -1269 -00:46:45,376 --> 00:46:47,159 +1226 +00:46:45,376 --> 00:46:48,942 that as I was swinging on the swing next to my kid, like, -1270 -00:46:47,159 --> 00:46:48,942 -"There - -1271 +1227 00:46:48,942 --> 00:46:50,711 -is a tree and the leaves on the -tree are very greenly +"There is a tree and the leaves +on the tree are very greenly -1272 +1228 00:46:50,711 --> 00:46:52,480 [chuckles]," I didn't -1273 +1229 00:46:52,481 --> 00:46:54,011 say it out loud. It was just in my head [Bogdan laughs], and I'm -1274 +1230 00:46:54,011 --> 00:46:55,541 -ike, "This is ridiculous." +like, "This is ridiculous." -1275 +1231 00:46:55,541 --> 00:46:58,061 I never talk in complete sentences, first of all. But- -1276 +1232 00:46:58,061 --> 00:47:00,581 but also, it was really -1277 +1233 00:47:00,581 --> 00:47:05,112 -hard. I was like, I was shocked +hard. I was, like, I was shocked at how much my mind wondered -1278 +1234 00:47:05,202 --> 00:47:09,132 while I was trying to stay focused. It was like, "Wait a -1279 -00:47:09,132 --> 00:47:11,171 -minute." I've just like, "Where --- how did I get to this to-do +1235 +00:47:09,132 --> 00:47:10,151 +minute." I've just like, +"Where-- how did I get to this -1280 +1236 +00:47:10,151 --> 00:47:11,170 +to-do + +1237 00:47:11,171 --> 00:47:13,210 list -1281 -00:47:13,211 --> 00:47:14,501 +1238 +00:47:13,211 --> 00:47:15,791 that I'm rattling off in my head? Because I was just talking -1282 -00:47:14,501 --> 00:47:15,791 -to - -1283 +1239 00:47:15,791 --> 00:47:17,592 -myself about tree leaves," you -know? +to myself about tree leaves," +you know? -1284 +1240 00:47:19,226 --> 00:47:20,651 -Bogdan: That's -- that -- like, +Bogdan: That's-- that-- like-- yeah. Exactly. The w- the way -1285 +1241 00:47:20,651 --> 00:47:22,076 the brain -1286 +1242 00:47:22,106 --> 00:47:24,206 -just like, worked, when- when -you don't do -- like, my -- so +just, like, worked, when- when +you don't do-- like, my-- so -1287 +1243 00:47:24,206 --> 00:47:26,306 my- my -1288 +1244 00:47:26,306 --> 00:47:27,851 therapist told me, like, when I used to have this anxiety -1289 +1245 00:47:27,851 --> 00:47:29,396 things, -1290 +1246 00:47:29,396 --> 00:47:33,447 like, whatever moments, like, -my- my super plan, which I 100% +my- my super plan—which I 100% -1291 +1247 00:47:33,447 --> 00:47:36,461 -thought it- it's working, cuz it -made me feel better, was just +thought it- it's working cuz it +made me feel better—was just, -1292 +1248 00:47:36,461 --> 00:47:38,576 -like, if I- if I feel weird, -I'll just like straight up, like +like, if I-- if I feel weird, +I'll just, like, straight up, -1293 +1249 00:47:38,576 --> 00:47:40,691 -put on +like, put on -1294 +1250 00:47:40,692 --> 00:47:44,351 something ... something that I -can hear and go for a walk, for +can hear and go for a walk for -1295 +1251 00:47:44,351 --> 00:47:45,716 -example and things like that. +example, and things like that. Which turns out it's not good -1296 +1252 00:47:45,716 --> 00:47:47,081 [laughs]. -1297 +1253 00:47:47,771 --> 00:47:51,431 -Cuz, no. Cuz at the end, she was -like, "Why don't you just +Cuz-- no. Cuz at the end, she +was like, "Why don't you just, -1298 +1254 00:47:51,431 --> 00:47:53,749 -like ... sit down, and like, -think about what's happening? Or +like ... sit down and, like, +think about what's happening? -1299 +1255 00:47:53,749 --> 00:47:56,067 -like, +Or, like, -1300 +1256 00:47:56,067 --> 00:47:57,777 let your- your- your mind -understand like what's +understand, like, what's -1301 +1257 00:47:57,777 --> 00:47:59,487 happening, -1302 +1258 00:47:59,487 --> 00:48:01,302 and why you feel that way, and things like that." Which ... I'm -1303 +1259 00:48:01,302 --> 00:48:03,117 gonna -1304 +1260 00:48:03,117 --> 00:48:05,276 give it to her [Bogdan and Bekah laugh], in a ways. It worked for -1305 +1261 00:48:05,276 --> 00:48:07,435 -me. In a- in a very weird way. +me. In a-- in a very weird way. It's -1306 +1262 00:48:07,436 --> 00:48:09,663 -just like -- but then you start -to, like -- I start to like, you +just, like-- but then you start +to, like-- I start to, like-- -1307 +1263 00:48:09,663 --> 00:48:11,890 -know, +you know, -1308 +1264 00:48:11,891 --> 00:48:14,126 -like, as you said, like realize, -oh, that's -- those leaves +like—as you said—like, realize, +"Oh, that's-- those leaves -1309 +1265 00:48:14,126 --> 00:48:16,361 there, they're -1310 +1266 00:48:16,362 --> 00:48:17,741 -actually very nice [chuckles], +actually very nice [chuckles]," you know, and things like that. -1311 +1267 00:48:17,741 --> 00:48:19,120 Which- -1312 +1268 00:48:19,152 --> 00:48:20,862 which never happens when- when -... yeah. I even, yeah. Like I, +... yeah. I even-- yeah. Like, -1313 +1269 00:48:20,862 --> 00:48:22,572 -even +I-- even -1314 +1270 00:48:22,577 --> 00:48:24,509 before sleep, I like to- to- to do this, and to hear something, -1315 +1271 00:48:24,509 --> 00:48:26,441 and -1316 +1272 00:48:26,447 --> 00:48:28,954 -things like that. I had a- I had -a friend coming into my room. +things like that. I had a-- I +had a friend coming into my -1317 +1273 00:48:28,954 --> 00:48:31,461 -And +room and -1318 -00:48:31,461 --> 00:48:32,766 -I was listening to music, and he +1274 +00:48:31,461 --> 00:48:34,071 +I was listening to music. And he was like, "Do you listen music -1319 -00:48:32,766 --> 00:48:34,071 -in - -1320 +1275 00:48:34,072 --> 00:48:36,536 -your bed?" I was like, "What +in your bed?" I was like, "What [laughs]? Of course I do. Why -1321 +1276 00:48:36,536 --> 00:48:39,000 don't you?" -1322 +1277 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:39,986 And it [Dan chuckles] turns out not a lot of people do that -1323 +1278 00:48:39,986 --> 00:48:40,972 [chuckles]. -1324 +1279 00:48:42,802 --> 00:48:45,952 Yeah. It's weird. The brain is weird. -1325 +1280 00:48:47,411 --> 00:48:47,802 -Bekah: Yeah. I -- +Bekah: Yeah. I-- -1326 +1281 00:48:47,802 --> 00:48:48,282 Dan: The brain is weird. -1327 +1282 00:48:49,121 --> 00:48:50,456 -Bekah: I mean, I even -- like, I +Bekah: I mean, I even-- like, I have a fan running when I'm -1328 +1283 00:48:50,456 --> 00:48:51,791 sleeping. -1329 +1284 00:48:51,791 --> 00:48:54,521 Because I can't ... take the silence, ever. Ugh, sleeping in -1330 +1285 00:48:54,521 --> 00:48:57,251 hotels is -1331 +1286 00:48:57,257 --> 00:48:59,000 like the- the worst. I hate sleeping in hotels. -1332 +1287 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,000 Bogdan: I hate it. Yeah. -1333 +1288 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:01,500 Bekah: They're so quiet. Or they're really noisy. We stayed -1334 +1289 00:49:01,500 --> 00:49:03,000 in a- -1335 +1290 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:03,000 Dan: Yes. -1336 +1291 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,925 Bekah: -hotel this weekend. And there were people out in the -1337 +1292 00:49:04,925 --> 00:49:06,850 hallway until, like, two AM. -1338 +1293 00:49:07,391 --> 00:49:07,751 Dan: Ugh. -1339 +1294 00:49:07,867 --> 00:49:08,246 Bogdan: Oh, no. -1340 +1295 00:49:08,532 --> 00:49:09,971 Bekah: That wasn't ideal. Cuz ... well, I couldn't understand -1341 +1296 00:49:09,971 --> 00:49:11,410 what -1342 +1297 00:49:11,416 --> 00:49:12,778 they were saying because it was a different language [Bogdan -1343 +1298 00:49:12,778 --> 00:49:14,140 chuckles]. So then it -1344 +1299 00:49:14,141 --> 00:49:14,411 -was like less fine. +was, like, less fine. -1345 +1300 00:49:14,577 --> 00:49:16,302 Bogdan: I'm staying with Dutch -[Bekah chuckles]. Well, I -- +[Bekah chuckles]. Well, I-- -1346 +1301 00:49:16,302 --> 00:49:19,032 Dan: Were they happy? Were they -happy, or they angry, or -- +happy, or they angry, or-- -1347 +1302 00:49:19,032 --> 00:49:20,322 -Bekah: I am -- +Bekah: I am-- -1348 +1303 00:49:20,322 --> 00:49:21,000 Dan: Medium? -1349 +1304 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,896 Bekah: I- I'm not sure. I feel like all of the above. But -1350 +1305 00:49:24,896 --> 00:49:26,666 -at one point there was like, -this wasn't -- this was during +at one point, there was, like-- +this wasn't-- this was during -1351 +1306 00:49:26,666 --> 00:49:28,436 the -1352 -00:49:28,436 --> 00:49:33,657 +1307 +00:49:28,436 --> 00:49:31,046 day. There were two young boys, -like wondering down the hallway. +like, wandering down the -1353 +1308 +00:49:31,046 --> 00:49:33,656 +hallway. + +1309 00:49:33,657 --> 00:49:35,052 And you can tell their mom was the one that came outta the -1354 +1310 00:49:35,052 --> 00:49:36,447 -room, +room -1355 +1311 00:49:36,447 --> 00:49:39,536 -because like, she had a total +because, like, she had a total mom face on. Those kids were not -1356 +1312 00:49:39,536 --> 00:49:42,177 -supposed to be wondering in the +supposed to be wandering in the hallway. And she walked with -1357 +1313 00:49:42,177 --> 00:49:44,457 like, "You are in big trouble -[chuckles]." It was like maybe +[chuckles]." It was, like, maybe -1358 +1314 00:49:44,457 --> 00:49:46,737 my favorite part of -1359 +1315 00:49:46,947 --> 00:49:48,161 -the entire hotel stay. Like, I +the entire hotel stay. Like, "I feel you. I've been there [Bekah -1360 +1316 00:49:48,161 --> 00:49:49,375 -and Bogdan chuckle]. +and Bogdan chuckle]." -1361 +1317 00:49:50,786 --> 00:49:52,893 Dan: U-universal- universal language. -1362 +1318 00:49:52,893 --> 00:49:55,000 [Unintelligible][laughs]. -1363 +1319 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:53,000 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -1364 +1320 00:49:53,782 --> 00:49:54,431 Bogdan: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah [laughs]. -1365 +1321 00:49:54,431 --> 00:50:01,902 -Yeah. I used to -- I- I- I used +Yeah. I used to-- I- I- I used to live on a moderately -1366 +1322 00:50:01,961 --> 00:50:05,231 -crowded city -- street, for -Maastricht, I mean, where there +crowded city-- street for +Maastricht. I mean, where there -1367 +1323 00:50:05,231 --> 00:50:07,211 were a bunch of bars, and cafes, and things like that. And every -1368 +1324 00:50:07,217 --> 00:50:09,479 single night, people would ... fight? But it would fight in -1369 +1325 00:50:09,479 --> 00:50:11,741 Dutch, -1370 +1326 00:50:11,771 --> 00:50:15,702 which was so frustrating. Cuz I was so curious. Like, no. Like, -1371 +1327 00:50:15,702 --> 00:50:17,742 seriously. They f- they- they were fighting so mm- first of -1372 +1328 00:50:17,742 --> 00:50:19,782 all, so -1373 +1329 00:50:19,782 --> 00:50:21,806 long. Like, you know, you- you- you scream at each other for a -1374 +1330 00:50:21,806 --> 00:50:23,830 few seconds [chuckles] -1375 +1331 00:50:23,831 --> 00:50:25,931 -and it go -- but they were +and it go-- but they were fighting for so long, and every -1376 +1332 00:50:25,931 --> 00:50:28,226 -single night I was so -- that -was my main motivation to learn +single night I was so-- that was +my main motivation to learn -1377 +1333 00:50:28,226 --> 00:50:30,521 Dutch [laughs]. Just -1378 +1334 00:50:30,521 --> 00:50:33,402 to understand what- what are -they fighting about? What is -- +they fighting about? What is-- -1379 +1335 00:50:33,431 --> 00:50:33,972 Dan: To understand the drama [chuckles]? -1380 +1336 00:50:34,331 --> 00:50:35,000 Bogdan: Yeah. Like, exactly. -Like [chuckles] -- +Like [chuckles]-- -1381 +1337 00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:36,000 Dan: All of that. -1382 +1338 00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:37,131 Bogdan: Yeah. But then I moved. So I don't have that excitement -1383 +1339 00:50:37,131 --> 00:50:38,262 in my life anymore. -1384 +1340 00:50:40,077 --> 00:50:41,607 Bekah: I feel like I would be tempted to record it. And then -1385 -00:50:41,607 --> 00:50:43,137 -trying and get - -1386 -00:50:43,137 --> 00:50:43,827 -it translated [laughs]. +1341 +00:50:41,607 --> 00:50:43,827 +trying and get it translated +[laughs]. -1387 +1342 00:50:44,322 --> 00:50:45,626 -Bogdan: Translate it after -[laughs]? Never do that. Maybe I +Bogdan: Translate it after? +[Laughs] Never do that. Maybe I -1388 +1343 00:50:45,626 --> 00:50:46,930 should [chuckles]. -1389 +1344 00:50:49,061 --> 00:50:51,161 I tried that with the doctor's office a bunch of times -1390 +1345 00:50:51,161 --> 00:50:53,981 when they have the number pressing things, but it didn't -1391 +1346 00:50:53,981 --> 00:50:54,851 work that well. -1392 +1347 00:50:55,947 --> 00:50:56,817 Bekah: Ugh. That's frustrating. -1393 +1348 00:50:57,222 --> 00:50:57,851 Bogdan: Robot voices, maybe. I dunno [chuckles]. Yeah. -1394 +1349 00:50:59,943 --> 00:51:04,653 Bekah: Okay. So, you've kind of -like, navigated all over this +like navigated all over this -1395 +1350 00:51:04,653 --> 00:51:07,954 career path. I feel like you've done a lot of different things -1396 +1351 00:51:07,954 --> 00:51:11,914 and have a lot of knowledge. And it seems like you're on a -1397 +1352 00:51:11,914 --> 00:51:15,146 path that you're enjoying now. What advice do you have for -1398 +1353 00:51:15,146 --> 00:51:18,378 anybody -1399 -00:51:18,378 --> 00:51:19,923 +1354 +00:51:18,378 --> 00:51:21,468 else that's kind of like navigating where they wanna go? -1400 -00:51:19,923 --> 00:51:21,468 -I +1355 +00:51:21,469 --> 00:51:23,088 +I especially think, like, +there's so many people coming -1401 -00:51:21,469 --> 00:51:24,708 -especially think like, there's -so many people coming into tech +1356 +00:51:23,088 --> 00:51:24,707 +into tech -1402 +1357 00:51:24,708 --> 00:51:27,513 right now. And I think that there's this focus on ... you -1403 +1358 00:51:27,513 --> 00:51:30,318 have -1404 +1359 00:51:30,318 --> 00:51:32,973 to do this one thing. Like, you have to do wh-whatever program -1405 +1360 00:51:32,973 --> 00:51:35,628 or -1406 +1361 00:51:35,628 --> 00:51:38,599 whatever self-taught path you -went on, but there are a lot of +went on but there are a lot of -1407 +1362 00:51:38,599 --> 00:51:41,516 different jobs in tech, you -know? So, what advice — like, +know? So, what advice—like, -1408 +1363 00:51:41,516 --> 00:51:44,433 based on -1409 +1364 00:51:44,434 --> 00:51:47,224 -your journey — would you give to -people who are like doing that +your journey—would you give to +people who are, like, doing that -1410 +1365 00:51:47,224 --> 00:51:49,173 exploration and trying to break in right now? -1411 +1366 00:51:50,978 --> 00:51:54,369 Bogdan: So, I mean ... without adding to the gatekeeping, cuz -1412 +1367 00:51:54,373 --> 00:51:56,095 -you know, everybody -- I feel +you know, everybody-- I feel like, we all have our ways and -1413 +1368 00:51:56,095 --> 00:51:57,817 things -1414 -00:51:57,818 --> 00:52:00,909 +1369 +00:51:57,818 --> 00:51:59,363 like that. I'm not gatekeeping -it, but I can- I can talk about +it, but I can-- I can talk -1415 +1370 +00:51:59,363 --> 00:52:00,908 +about, + +1371 00:52:00,909 --> 00:52:02,933 -like what worked and -- which is +like, what worked and-- which is very tricky as well. Cuz I was- -1416 +1372 00:52:02,933 --> 00:52:04,957 I -1417 +1373 00:52:04,958 --> 00:52:06,728 was actually talking a few days -ago with someone -- with a +ago with someone-- with a -1418 +1374 00:52:06,728 --> 00:52:08,498 person -1419 +1375 00:52:08,498 --> 00:52:11,708 -that also just started — switch +that also just started—switch from physics to computer science -1420 +1376 00:52:11,708 --> 00:52:16,454 and now they got an internship. -And I think it's hard. I -- +And I think it's hard. I-- -1421 +1377 00:52:16,454 --> 00:52:17,714 it's hard for me to be in that position. And also, I think I -1422 +1378 00:52:17,714 --> 00:52:18,974 ask -1423 +1379 00:52:18,974 --> 00:52:24,014 a question about this the other day at Virtual Coffee. -1424 +1380 00:52:24,043 --> 00:52:28,724 -Because I- I still feel like, +Because I- I still feel like everything is so overwhelming -1425 +1381 00:52:28,728 --> 00:52:33,313 -already, and it's so hard to -find ways to do things. Like, me +already and it's so hard to find +ways to do things. Like, me -1426 +1382 00:52:33,313 --> 00:52:35,893 chipping in with [laughs] things would add to that. But I mean, -1427 +1383 00:52:35,893 --> 00:52:38,473 it's- it's- -1428 +1384 00:52:38,478 --> 00:52:42,853 -it's very interesting. So like +it's very interesting. So, like, my- my- my advice in -1429 +1385 00:52:42,858 --> 00:52:45,408 -that regard was -- what I was +that regard was-- what I was thinking at the moment ... based -1430 +1386 00:52:45,408 --> 00:52:47,958 on -1431 +1387 00:52:47,958 --> 00:52:50,365 my school experience and my jobs -that I had on the way ... is -- +that I had on the way ... is-- -1432 +1388 00:52:50,365 --> 00:52:52,772 and -1433 +1389 00:52:52,773 --> 00:52:54,828 I'm not sure exactly [chuckles] -how valid it is -- not valid. +how valid it is-- not valid. -1434 +1390 00:52:54,828 --> 00:52:56,883 -It's just like, we- +It's just, like, we- -1435 +1391 00:52:57,034 --> 00:52:58,203 we already have arguments about -this, right? Like, the way -- +this, right? Like, the way-- -1436 +1392 00:52:58,203 --> 00:52:59,372 the -1437 +1393 00:52:59,373 --> 00:53:00,873 right way to start to- to learn programming and things like -1438 +1394 00:53:00,873 --> 00:53:02,373 that. -1439 +1395 00:53:02,373 --> 00:53:05,284 Oh, should you learn ... React, although you don't know -1440 +1396 00:53:05,284 --> 00:53:08,403 JavaScript or whatever. But what I- what I find very interesting -1441 +1397 00:53:08,403 --> 00:53:10,308 about my- my experience is that I spent so much time trying to -1442 +1398 00:53:10,308 --> 00:53:12,213 learn -1443 +1399 00:53:12,813 --> 00:53:14,478 -things -- fundamental things, -which of course are very +things-- fundamental things +which, of course, are very -1444 +1400 00:53:14,478 --> 00:53:16,143 important. I'm -1445 +1401 00:53:16,143 --> 00:53:18,528 -not gonna argue that, will helps +not gonna argue that will helps us in- in- in many, many ways -1446 +1402 00:53:18,528 --> 00:53:20,913 to- to do our -1447 +1403 00:53:20,918 --> 00:53:25,443 day jobs, but I didn't have time -to- to focus, you know, like +to- to focus, you know, like, -1448 -00:53:25,443 --> 00:53:27,768 -profess- not professionally, but -like academically ... on things +1404 +00:53:25,443 --> 00:53:26,605 +profess- not professionally, +but, like, academically ... on -1449 +1405 +00:53:26,605 --> 00:53:27,767 +things + +1406 00:53:27,768 --> 00:53:30,093 that -1450 +1407 00:53:30,099 --> 00:53:32,691 I'm actually using at my job. So, look. You do need Java- you -1451 +1408 00:53:32,691 --> 00:53:35,283 -do- +do-- -1452 +1409 00:53:35,434 --> 00:53:38,403 -you do need to know- to know +you do need to know-- to know JavaScript to- to- to work in -1453 +1410 00:53:38,403 --> 00:53:40,594 React and things like that. But if you spend too much time on -1454 +1411 00:53:40,594 --> 00:53:42,409 -that, you'll never -- -y-y-you'll- you'll get a little +that, you'll never-- y-y-you'll- +you'll get a little -1455 +1412 00:53:42,409 --> 00:53:44,224 bit later to these -1456 +1413 00:53:44,224 --> 00:53:46,444 -things. And y-y-you might, as I +things. And y-y-you might—as I did it with electrical -1457 +1414 00:53:46,444 --> 00:53:48,664 -engineering, I- +engineering—I- -1458 +1415 00:53:48,664 --> 00:53:51,784 -I- I missed- I missed the +I- I missed-- I missed the opportunity to get excited about -1459 +1416 00:53:51,784 --> 00:53:56,974 -it. So I feel like, if we would +it. So I feel like if we would spend so much time on learning -1460 +1417 00:53:56,974 --> 00:53:58,961 the basis of- of JavaScript, and this is not [chuckles] -1461 +1418 00:53:58,961 --> 00:54:00,948 -advocating me -- this is not me +advocating me-- this is not me -1462 +1419 00:54:00,949 --> 00:54:03,123 advocating for people not to [laughs] learn the basics. I'm -1463 +1420 00:54:03,123 --> 00:54:05,297 -just saying like, the +just saying, like, the -1464 +1421 00:54:05,298 --> 00:54:07,658 division of time is very important. So, I think ... -1465 +1422 00:54:07,658 --> 00:54:10,018 -do-doing -- +do-doing-- -1466 +1423 00:54:10,248 --> 00:54:12,498 mainly doing ... I don't know. For example, frameworks, and -1467 +1424 00:54:12,498 --> 00:54:14,748 then -1468 +1425 00:54:15,438 --> 00:54:19,458 picking up as a hobby or as a second thing, learning the -1469 -00:54:19,518 --> 00:54:21,806 +1426 +00:54:19,518 --> 00:54:24,094 fundamentals that you don't know ... would accelerate it a little -1470 -00:54:21,806 --> 00:54:24,094 -bit - -1471 +1427 00:54:24,423 --> 00:54:25,758 -more. In the way of -- cuz at +bit more. In the way of-- cuz at the end of the day, as- as, you -1472 +1428 00:54:25,758 --> 00:54:27,093 know, as -1473 +1429 00:54:27,094 --> 00:54:28,998 developers, as engineers, we have to- to find solutions and -1474 +1430 00:54:28,998 --> 00:54:30,902 to -1475 +1431 00:54:30,909 --> 00:54:34,954 build things, right? And we're -gonna- we're gonna, eventually, +gonna-- we're gonna, eventually, -1476 +1432 00:54:35,264 --> 00:54:37,524 in wha- in some setups, you- you get paid [chuckles] to- to use -1477 +1433 00:54:37,524 --> 00:54:39,784 the best tools you -1478 +1434 00:54:39,784 --> 00:54:42,206 have to build the best things you can build. And ... how you -1479 +1435 00:54:42,206 --> 00:54:44,628 get -1480 +1436 00:54:44,634 --> 00:54:46,221 -there, like the- the tools you +there, like, the- the tools you use to get there, I feel like -1481 +1437 00:54:46,221 --> 00:54:47,808 they're -1482 +1438 00:54:47,809 --> 00:54:51,559 more important than the things that I spent a lot of time -1483 +1439 00:54:51,739 --> 00:54:55,909 learning in, you know, all these formal setups, which was great. -1484 +1440 00:54:55,909 --> 00:54:57,484 I'm not [chuckles] denying that. But I just thinking out loud. I -1485 +1441 00:54:57,484 --> 00:54:59,059 think that -1486 +1442 00:54:59,063 --> 00:55:02,210 -was the things focusing on -tools, and then learning the- +was the things focusing on tools +and then learning the- -1487 +1443 00:55:02,210 --> 00:55:05,357 the- the basics -1488 +1444 00:55:05,358 --> 00:55:07,488 and fundamentals as- as we go. Cuz I think that would help us, -1489 +1445 00:55:07,488 --> 00:55:09,618 you -1490 +1446 00:55:09,623 --> 00:55:12,103 know, get a little bit more -creative [chuckles]. I think. I +creative [chuckles], I think. I -1491 +1447 00:55:12,103 --> 00:55:14,583 dunno. I -1492 +1448 00:55:14,583 --> 00:55:16,428 dunno if it makes sense [laughs]. But that's what I was -1493 -00:55:16,428 --> 00:55:18,273 -thinking about - -1494 -00:55:18,273 --> 00:55:18,724 -the other day. +1449 +00:55:16,428 --> 00:55:18,724 +thinking about the other day. -1495 -00:55:19,548 --> 00:55:20,868 +1450 +00:55:19,548 --> 00:55:22,188 Bekah: No, I think that makes total sense. And I think that's -1496 -00:55:20,868 --> 00:55:22,188 -a - -1497 -00:55:22,193 --> 00:55:23,855 -great way to end the episode. +1451 +00:55:22,193 --> 00:55:25,517 +a great way to end the episode. So, I wanna thank you, Bogdan, -1498 -00:55:23,855 --> 00:55:25,517 -for - -1499 +1452 00:55:25,523 --> 00:55:28,639 -being here with us today. We +for being here with us today. We really enjoyed having this -1500 +1453 00:55:28,639 --> 00:55:29,418 conversation with you. -1501 +1454 00:55:30,454 --> 00:55:31,000 -Bogdan: Thank you. Very -- thank +Bogdan: Thank you. Very-- thank you very much- -1502 +1455 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:32,000 Dan: Thanks, Bogdan. -1503 +1456 00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,301 Bogdan: -for having me. And it's -very -- yeah. Very nice to- to +very-- yeah. Very nice to- to -1504 +1457 00:55:34,301 --> 00:55:36,602 be here. Thank you. -1505 +1458 00:55:40,567 --> 00:55:42,666 Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual -1506 +1459 00:55:42,666 --> 00:55:46,413 -Coffee podcast. This episode was +Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah -1507 +1460 00:55:46,413 --> 00:55:47,803 Hawrot Weigel. If you have questions or comments, you can -1508 +1461 00:55:47,803 --> 00:55:49,193 hit -1509 +1462 00:55:49,193 --> 00:55:52,202 us up on Twitter at -VirtualCoffeeIO, or email us at +VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at -1510 +1463 00:55:52,202 --> 00:55:53,937 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up -1511 +1464 00:55:53,937 --> 00:55:55,672 for -1512 +1465 00:55:55,672 --> 00:55:57,713 the newsletter, check out any of our other resources on our -1513 +1466 00:55:57,713 --> 00:56:01,103 website, virtualcoffee.io. If you're interested in sponsoring -1514 +1467 00:56:01,103 --> 00:56:03,503 Virtual Coffee, you can find out more information on our website -1515 +1468 00:56:03,773 --> 00:56:08,213 at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. Please subscribe to our podcast -1516 +1469 00:56:08,242 --> 00:56:09,847 and be sure to leave us a review. Thanks for listening and -1517 -00:56:09,847 --> 00:56:11,452 -we'll - -1518 -00:56:11,452 --> 00:56:12,293 -see you next week! \ No newline at end of file +1470 +00:56:09,847 --> 00:56:12,293 +we'll see you next week! \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/episodes/6_3.srt b/episodes/6_3.srt index 877e2ec..bda1dc1 100644 --- a/episodes/6_3.srt +++ b/episodes/6_3.srt @@ -9,7 +9,7 @@ of 3 00:00:08,701 --> 00:00:11,223 -the Virtual Coffee podcast. I'm +the Virtual Coffee Podcast. I'm Bekah. And this is a podcast 4 @@ -28,12 +28,12 @@ developers at all stages of 7 00:00:19,027 --> 00:00:20,527 -their +their coding 8 00:00:20,527 --> 00:00:23,196 -coding journey. And they're here -on this podcast, sharing their +journey. And they're here, on +this podcast, sharing their 9 00:00:23,202 --> 00:00:25,000 @@ -46,8 +46,8 @@ share it with you. 11 00:00:26,766 --> 00:00:28,867 -Here with me today is my cohost, -Dan. +Here with me today is my +co-host, Dan. 12 00:00:29,667 --> 00:00:31,207 @@ -71,7 +71,7 @@ energy 16 00:00:37,356 --> 00:00:40,087 coming in like that. I- I- I -can't- I can't- I can't do +can't-- I can't-- I can't do 17 00:00:40,087 --> 00:00:40,656 @@ -83,7 +83,7 @@ Bekah: I-it is what it is. 19 00:00:47,676 --> 00:00:51,606 -Dan: [Laughs] Yeah. So today we +Dan: [Laughs] Yeah. So today, we are continuing our streak 20 @@ -94,7 +94,7 @@ Season 1 Episode 1 [laughs] with 21 00:00:56,046 --> 00:01:01,597 Seth Hall. Seth is a Technical -Product Owner at Uniform. And -- +Product Owner at Uniform. And-- 22 00:01:02,152 --> 00:01:03,546 @@ -122,13 +122,13 @@ of a organic transition for him, 27 00:01:15,417 --> 00:01:19,162 -from being a, you know, a -- I -was gonna say regular developer, +from being a-- you know, a-- I +was gonna say regular developer 28 00:01:19,167 --> 00:01:21,000 -but that's not- that's not fair. -But, you know, being an +but that's not-- that's not +fair. But-- you know, being an 29 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,000 @@ -165,7 +165,7 @@ what he's doing now. Which 36 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:40,537 -for me, was +for me was 37 00:01:40,537 --> 00:01:43,746 @@ -203,7 +203,7 @@ always a lot of 44 00:02:00,816 --> 00:02:03,000 clarity about what a producer -does [chuckles] in -- for a +does [chuckles] in-- for a 45 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,387 @@ -216,7 +216,7 @@ remember what kind of producer 47 00:02:08,796 --> 00:02:11,000 -he said he's. The one that does +he said he's — the one that does what he's doing. Do you remember 48 @@ -230,21 +230,21 @@ Bekah: Creative producer. 50 00:02:12,817 --> 00:02:15,097 Dan: Creative producer. Okay. -And so a creative producer is a +And so, a creative producer is a 51 00:02:15,097 --> 00:02:18,007 person who's kind of responsible -for shepherding a -- the- the +for shepherding a-- the- the 52 00:02:18,012 --> 00:02:19,374 project, you know, from -beginning to end, and make a lot +beginning to end, and make a 53 00:02:19,374 --> 00:02:20,736 --- make +lot-- make 54 00:02:20,736 --> 00:02:24,937 @@ -254,7 +254,7 @@ doing a lot more than, you 55 00:02:24,937 --> 00:02:27,396 know, maybe a project manager or -something like that role -- kind +something like that role-- kind 56 00:02:27,396 --> 00:02:32,766 @@ -272,7 +272,7 @@ these 59 00:02:36,187 --> 00:02:39,037 -frameworks -- mental frameworks +frameworks-- mental frameworks from other industries on top of 60 @@ -304,76 +304,76 @@ to be- become 66 00:02:50,257 --> 00:02:52,500 -better, you know? And I think -- +better, you know? And I think-- I feel like creative 67 00:02:52,500 --> 00:02:53,287 -producer here is +producer here is like 68 00:02:53,287 --> 00:02:56,796 -like one of those- one of those, -like, really cool -- it- it, +one of those-- one of those, +like, really cool-- it- it-- 69 -00:02:56,796 --> 00:02:59,467 -likes, I dunno. It seemed like a -very cool idea to me [chuckles]. +00:02:56,796 --> 00:02:58,131 +likes-- I dunno. It seemed like +a very cool idea to me 70 +00:02:58,131 --> 00:02:59,466 +[chuckles]. + +71 00:02:59,872 --> 00:03:00,756 Bekah: Yeah. And I love how he -talked about — he used the +talked about-- he used the -71 +72 00:03:00,756 --> 00:03:01,640 phrase -72 +73 00:03:01,641 --> 00:03:05,872 -'intimate collaboration' — and I +'intimate collaboration', and I think that that sums up what -73 +74 00:03:05,872 --> 00:03:08,107 really makes somebody good at that job. But th-that's one of -74 +75 00:03:08,107 --> 00:03:10,342 those -75 +76 00:03:10,342 --> 00:03:13,731 -things that -- it's- it's not a +things that-- it's- it's not a common phrase or a common idea -76 +77 00:03:13,731 --> 00:03:16,086 when you're thinking about what -a technical product owner does, +a technical product owner does -77 +78 00:03:16,086 --> 00:03:18,441 or a -78 -00:03:18,752 --> 00:03:20,442 -producer, but that -- those -connections are what really - 79 -00:03:20,442 --> 00:03:22,132 -allow +00:03:18,752 --> 00:03:22,132 +producer, but that-- those +connections are what really 80 00:03:22,132 --> 00:03:23,301 -people to be successful. +allow people to be successful. 81 00:03:24,606 --> 00:03:27,336 -Dan: Yeah, absolutely. It was- +Dan: Yeah, absolutely. It was-- it was cool. It was very good 82 @@ -387,7 +387,7 @@ episode of the podcast like we 84 00:03:31,461 --> 00:03:33,531 -start every Virtual Coffee. With +start every Virtual Coffee with our names, where we're from, 85 @@ -395,535 +395,536 @@ our names, where we're from, what 86 -00:03:35,606 --> 00:03:37,658 +00:03:35,606 --> 00:03:39,710 we do, and answering a random check-in question. So we hope 87 -00:03:37,658 --> 00:03:39,710 -you - -88 00:03:39,711 --> 00:03:51,300 -enjoy this episode. Today's +you enjoy this episode. Today's random check-in question is, -89 +88 00:03:51,389 --> 00:03:55,110 describe a time you laughed so hard you thought you would cry -90 +89 00:03:55,500 --> 00:04:00,419 or when you did cry. I'm not sure if that makes sense. What -91 +90 00:04:00,419 --> 00:04:03,810 was so funny? [Laughs] Did you ge- -92 +91 00:04:04,139 --> 00:04:07,889 Dan: Did you read that question -before ... just now? What is- +before ... just now? What is-- -93 +92 00:04:07,889 --> 00:04:09,000 what is happening? -94 +93 00:04:07,949 --> 00:04:10,860 Bekah: I did! When we were setting up the- the podca- when -95 +94 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,060 scheduling everybody. I put questions in all of them. So -96 +95 00:04:15,060 --> 00:04:15,500 it's been a minute. -97 +96 00:04:15,500 --> 00:04:16,000 Dan: Okay, okay, okay. -98 +97 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,867 Bekah: [Chuckles] My name is Bekah. I am a technical -99 +98 00:04:18,867 --> 00:04:21,734 community -100 +99 00:04:21,735 --> 00:04:29,000 builder. And laugh so hard that -I cried. I feel like these +I cried. I feel like these-- -101 +100 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:29,925 --- those +those -102 +101 00:04:29,925 --> 00:04:34,305 moments are great, and I can remember them happening and who -103 +102 00:04:34,305 --> 00:04:39,285 they happened with, but I cannot remember why they happened. So, -104 +103 00:04:39,285 --> 00:04:45,360 like, normally, it's with people I'm very close friends with or -105 +104 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,589 -with my brothers -- usually it's +with my brothers-- usually it's my brothers. And I'm usually -106 +105 00:04:49,589 --> 00:04:55,000 laughing at them, and not with them [chuckles]. So, I don't -107 +106 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:55,230 know. I have -108 +107 00:04:55,235 --> 00:04:59,819 to think about that more. But I -guess I'm laughing so -- oh. I'm +guess I'm laughing so-- oh. I'm -109 +108 00:04:59,819 --> 00:05:01,064 trying to think, there was one, that was recently. I was -110 +109 00:05:01,064 --> 00:05:02,309 laughing -111 +110 00:05:02,310 --> 00:05:06,000 so hard [silence] I don't know. I have to come back to it. -112 +111 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,980 Sending it over to you, Dan. -113 +112 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,834 Dan: All right. Hello. My name is Dan. I am from Lakewood, -114 +113 00:05:13,834 --> 00:05:17,375 Ohio, the first suburb west of Cleveland. I do web development. -115 +114 00:05:17,464 --> 00:05:20,555 -And, yeah. I have- I have these- -I have these laughing +And-- yeah. I have-- I have +these-- I have these laughing -116 +115 00:05:20,555 --> 00:05:23,964 issues from time to time. Honestly, mostly with my family. -117 +116 00:05:23,964 --> 00:05:27,235 -I don't- I don't know exactly -why. But, yeah. And my mom +I don't-- I don't know exactly +why. But-- yeah. And my mom -118 +117 00:05:27,235 --> 00:05:29,725 gets it too. So sometimes I'll -just like have to cover my face +just, like, have to cover my -119 +118 00:05:29,725 --> 00:05:34,254 -and, you know, be laughing a -lot, and probably crying in. +face and, you know, be laughing +a lot, and probably crying in. -120 +119 00:05:34,285 --> 00:05:41,300 The one time that really ... comes to mind ... ha- have you -121 +120 00:05:41,300 --> 00:05:44,000 -guys seen the -- this, like, the +guys seen the-- this, like, the screaming goat videos? -122 +121 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:44,200 Seth Hall: Yes. -123 +122 00:05:44,700 --> 00:05:46,800 Dan: Like, they were, like, -popular a while ago. And, +popular a while ago. And -124 +123 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:47,990 -there's -- so there's one that's +there's-- so there's one that's -125 +124 00:05:47,990 --> 00:05:50,000 -like a -- there -- so people +like a-- there-- so people started mixing 'em into songs, -126 +125 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,589 you know? And -127 +126 00:05:51,589 --> 00:05:55,339 -the -- and there's like this -- +the-- and there's, like, this-- the- the Taylor Swift song, -128 +127 00:05:56,779 --> 00:06:58,000 -the ... that's like the ... +the ... that's, like, the ... [singing] I know you were -129 +128 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:58,001 trouble. Or how's that song go? -130 +129 00:06:00,199 --> 00:06:00,709 Bekah: [Singing] I know you- -131 +130 00:06:00,709 --> 00:06:02,600 -Dan: Some -- there's some -- but +Dan: Some-- there's some-- but there's- -132 +131 00:06:02,779 --> 00:06:03,230 -Bekah: -you walked in -- +Bekah: -you walked in-- -133 +132 00:06:04,264 --> 00:06:05,615 Dan: -there's some part of that hook, and then there's the -134 +133 00:06:05,615 --> 00:06:09,185 screaming goat. And it, like, -just kills me every time. And I +just kills me every time. And -135 +134 00:06:09,214 --> 00:06:11,500 --- we were like playing it on my -phone, you know, with- with +I-- we were, like, playing it on +my phone, you know, with- with -136 +135 00:06:11,500 --> 00:06:12,004 my family -137 +136 00:06:12,004 --> 00:06:13,000 in, like, the living room -[laughs]. And I just like -- +[laughs]. And I just, like-- -138 +137 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:14,495 -I could, like -- I was +I could, like-- I was -139 +138 00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:17,134 laughing for probably, like, 15 minutes [laughs]. Cuz my sister -140 +139 00:06:17,134 --> 00:06:19,000 -started -- just every time I'd +started-- just every time I'd calm down, she'd played it -141 +140 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,060 again, you know? That was it. -142 +141 00:06:20,060 --> 00:06:21,000 -Bekah: There- there was a -- +Bekah: There- there was a-- -143 +142 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,000 Dan: [Laughs] I cannot stand this. -144 +143 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,170 -Bekah: I -- it was an Instagram +Bekah: I-- it was an Instagram reel or a -145 +144 00:06:24,170 --> 00:06:27,139 -TikTok, that was similar. Where +TikTok that was similar, where somebody was going to film -146 +145 00:06:27,139 --> 00:06:29,209 -themselves, and while -- before +themselves, and while-- before they got started, they -147 +146 00:06:29,209 --> 00:06:31,279 -accidentally +accidentally, -148 +147 00:06:31,285 --> 00:06:35,000 -like threw their hip into the -side of the bed, and they- +like, threw their hip into the +side of the bed and they- -149 +148 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:35,000 Dan: Oh, yeah [chuckles]. I saw that. -150 +149 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,000 Bekah: -screamed out, and then, everybody remixed it. So they -151 +150 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:39,470 screamed like, "Ah!" And -152 +151 00:06:39,470 --> 00:06:43,040 so then people are like, "Eh," you know, like, staying alive. -153 +152 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,500 "Ah!" it would start with that, and then somebody would go on? -154 +153 00:06:45,500 --> 00:06:46,519 [Seth laughs] That was really good. -155 +154 00:06:48,095 --> 00:06:51,274 Dan: All right. Wait. I think I -can- I- I think I can -- oh, +can- I- I think I can-- oh, -156 +155 00:06:51,305 --> 00:06:54,485 can I change my microphone while we're recording? That -157 +156 00:06:54,485 --> 00:06:58,834 possible? Might not be possible. I was gonna play it for -158 +157 00:06:58,834 --> 00:07:00,305 everybody, but ... I don't think -I -- +I-- -159 +158 00:07:00,454 --> 00:07:01,865 Bekah: Link- link in the show notes. -160 +159 00:07:02,899 --> 00:07:04,970 Dan: Yep. I'll put the link in -the show notes so that we don't +the show notes so that we -161 +160 00:07:04,970 --> 00:07:08,000 --- I'll have to listen to me -breaking down again [chuckles]. +don't-- I'll have to listen to +me breaking down again -162 +161 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:08,540 -Probably a good call. +[chuckles]. Probably a good +call. -163 +162 00:07:08,884 --> 00:07:12,574 Bekah: I used to laugh so hard when we started the podcast. -164 +163 00:07:14,509 --> 00:07:17,600 Dan: Yes. That was always fun. It was fun making that happen. -165 +164 00:07:17,764 --> 00:07:18,185 Seth: It was out of nervousness maybe? Or out of fun? -166 +165 00:07:18,259 --> 00:07:19,910 Bekah: It was. It was, like, straight up nerv- -167 +166 00:07:20,029 --> 00:07:20,779 -Seth: The red light- red light +Seth: The red light-- red light syndrome? -168 +167 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:21,439 Dan: Yeah. -169 +168 00:07:21,439 --> 00:07:24,050 Bekah: Dan would be like, "Go!" And I'd start the intro, could -170 +169 00:07:24,050 --> 00:07:27,079 not hold it together. Could not! -It took me -- like, even if I +It took me-- like, even if I -171 +170 00:07:27,084 --> 00:07:30,680 was recording it by myself, it took a really long time. Maybe -172 +171 00:07:30,685 --> 00:07:32,329 Season 2 is when I finally -calmed down [chuckles]. Like -- +calmed down [chuckles]. Like-- -173 +172 00:07:32,884 --> 00:07:33,125 Dan: Yeah. -174 +173 00:07:33,500 --> 00:07:33,800 Seth: Yep, yep. -175 +174 00:07:34,535 --> 00:07:38,045 -Dan: Yeah. I- I also, like, the --- like, times where you are +Dan: Yeah. I- I also, like, +the-- like, times where you are -176 +175 00:07:38,045 --> 00:07:40,444 -really not supposed to laugh, -but you're -- like, standing in +really not supposed to laugh but +you're, like, standing in -177 +176 00:07:40,444 --> 00:07:43,235 front of someone, whatever, but you make eye contact with- with -178 +177 00:07:43,235 --> 00:07:43,236 one of your friends or- -179 +178 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:44,000 Seth: Oh, yes. Sure. -180 +179 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,694 Dan: -you know, somebody who knows you're trying not to -181 +180 00:07:45,694 --> 00:07:47,884 laugh or whatever, tho- those are always really fun for me -182 +181 00:07:48,454 --> 00:07:49,055 too [chuckles]. Except when I'm -[unintelligible] -- +[unintelligible]-- -183 +182 00:07:49,100 --> 00:07:51,000 -Seth: That's a good- that's a +Seth: That's a good-- that's a good segue into mine. My name -184 +183 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:52,230 is Seth Hall. -185 +184 00:07:52,290 --> 00:07:56,521 I'm a Technical Product Owner at Uniform. And for me, laughter -186 +185 00:07:56,521 --> 00:08:00,841 has been a huge part of my life, just with all my friends. You -187 +186 00:08:00,841 --> 00:08:03,120 know, I think it initially started as a coping mechanism, -188 +187 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,380 just from my childhood. But I -was always like cracking up in +was always, like, cracking up in -189 +188 00:08:07,380 --> 00:08:10,000 -school, in -- I mean, I remember +school, in-- I mean, I remember one time, my cousin and I were -190 +189 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,490 at a funeral or something. -191 +190 00:08:11,490 --> 00:08:13,860 We were, like, eight years old at a funeral. And, like, -192 +191 00:08:13,860 --> 00:08:16,560 we had to be separated. We were laughing so hard. But we, like, -193 +192 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,920 found each other through the pews, you know, across the whole -194 +193 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,071 church and we're still cracking up, you know? And so, -195 +194 00:08:23,161 --> 00:08:26,430 laughter has been a great medicine for me, but it's got me -196 +195 00:08:26,430 --> 00:08:31,201 -in trouble a lot. But- but, -yeah. So it's just like such a +in trouble a lot. But- but-- +yeah. So it's just, like, such a + +196 +00:08:31,201 --> 00:08:33,076 +healing thing for me. And I-- +and I still have great friends 197 -00:08:31,201 --> 00:08:34,951 -healing thing for me. And I- and -I still have great friends that +00:08:33,076 --> 00:08:34,951 +that 198 00:08:34,951 --> 00:08:38,730 @@ -932,27 +933,27 @@ with our inside humor, right? I 199 00:08:38,730 --> 00:08:39,750 -mean, no one else think it would --- no one else would think it +mean, no one else think it +would-- no one else would think 200 00:08:39,750 --> 00:08:40,770 -was +it was 201 00:08:40,770 --> 00:08:43,801 -funny, but- but, yeah. So I -- +funny, but- but-- yeah. So I-- I'm like Bekah. I can't think of 202 00:08:43,801 --> 00:08:47,341 -a specific time, you know, +a specific time-- you know, another specific time, but it's 203 00:08:47,341 --> 00:08:51,000 always been a constant kinda -thing for me. And- and it -- +thing for me. And- and it-- 204 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,770 @@ -975,12 +976,12 @@ real authentic stuff, then 208 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,051 -we're like, we're best mates. So -... but, yeah. +we're, like, we're best mates. +So ... but-- yeah. 209 00:09:04,051 --> 00:09:05,311 -Bekah: Yeah. There -- +Bekah: Yeah. There-- 210 00:09:05,311 --> 00:09:06,301 @@ -988,2267 +989,2268 @@ Dan: Yeah, absolutely. 211 00:09:07,230 --> 00:09:11,850 -Bekah: I -- that reminded me of -a time. I was at church with a +Bekah: I-- that reminded me of a +time. I was at church with a 212 -00:09:11,850 --> 00:09:16,561 -classmate. And one of us, we're -like singing in church, right? +00:09:11,850 --> 00:09:14,205 +classmate. And one of us-- +we're, like, singing in church, 213 +00:09:14,205 --> 00:09:16,560 +right? + +214 00:09:16,620 --> 00:09:21,181 And saying the wrong verse, right? And it's, like, very -214 +215 00:09:21,181 --> 00:09:22,000 -loudly. And then there was like, -no [Seth laughs], no, +loudly. And then there was, +like, no [Seth laughs]- no -215 +216 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:23,000 coming back- -216 +217 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,000 Seth: Yeah. Yeah. -217 +218 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:24,841 Bekah: -laughing so hard. We -218 +219 00:09:24,841 --> 00:09:27,990 were definitely crying. Somebody had to get up and leave because -219 +220 00:09:27,990 --> 00:09:30,000 it was just, like, totally inappropriate- -220 +221 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:30,200 Seth: Yeah. -221 +222 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,870 Bekah: -and disruptive. Which, like, makes it -222 +223 00:09:31,870 --> 00:09:34,000 even funnier [laughs], in a way? -I feel like- like -- +I feel like- like-- -223 +224 00:09:33,961 --> 00:09:35,000 Seth: Would be even funnier. Yeah. I mean, I- I hate to -224 +225 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:36,931 even think about what my to- put -225 +226 00:09:36,931 --> 00:09:40,000 my teachers through in school. I -mean ... I just was like -- +mean ... I just was, like-- -226 +227 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,931 it- it- it, for me, -227 +228 00:09:42,931 --> 00:09:47,671 like, if I had known comedy was -actually a- a- a career, back in +actually a- a- a career back in -228 +229 00:09:47,671 --> 00:09:50,000 -then -- like, nowadays people- +then-- like, nowadays people- people, like, "Oh, you gotta -229 +230 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,900 -improv, and all +improv and all -230 +231 00:09:51,900 --> 00:09:53,880 these different YouTube things," and, like, people go, "I wanna -231 +232 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,941 be a comedian." They go and they pursue that. But I never even -232 +233 00:09:56,941 --> 00:09:59,551 -knew it was a career, but I +knew it was a career. But I listened to comedy constant- -233 +234 00:09:59,556 --> 00:10:02,000 constantly growing up. And then the thrill of making people -234 +235 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,061 -laugh, which was +laugh — which was -235 +236 00:10:03,390 --> 00:10:06,811 -what I did a ton of, it just, +what I did a ton of — it just, like, was like a huge, like, -236 +237 00:10:07,201 --> 00:10:09,571 thrill. I mean, it was great. And I, like, couldn't get enough -237 +238 00:10:09,571 --> 00:10:11,000 of it. And to the point where I -said it was- it was actually +said it was-- it was actually -238 +239 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,051 disrespectful, you know, -239 +240 00:10:13,051 --> 00:10:16,000 now that I look back [chuckles]. -But that's- that's part of being +But that's- that's part of -240 +241 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:16,951 --- part +being-- part -241 +242 00:10:16,951 --> 00:10:19,081 of growing up, I guess. Being young, and immature, and stuff. -242 +243 00:10:20,086 --> 00:10:22,000 -Bekah: Yeah, always. I always -- +Bekah: Yeah, always. I always-- if there were a personality -243 +244 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,686 trait that I -244 +245 00:10:23,686 --> 00:10:26,000 could just, like, download into my brain, it would be -245 +246 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,076 m-making people -246 +247 00:10:27,076 --> 00:10:29,176 laugh. I don't know. That's not really a personality trait. -247 +248 00:10:29,176 --> 00:10:29,176 Seth: Oh, yeah. -248 +249 00:10:29,176 --> 00:10:31,000 Bekah: But you know what? [Chuckles] I always would love -249 +250 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:32,775 to make people laugh. My grandma was -250 +251 00:10:32,780 --> 00:10:36,061 really great at it. And I always wish that, like, I had that same -251 +252 00:10:36,061 --> 00:10:39,990 ability because it kind of what you're saying, Seth, that idea -252 +253 00:10:40,260 --> 00:10:43,921 -of you -- if you can laugh +of you-- if you can laugh together with somebody, then -253 +254 00:10:43,926 --> 00:10:46,000 you're friends, and then that does often lead to that -254 +255 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,370 opportunity to dive -255 +256 00:10:47,370 --> 00:10:50,640 deeper into things. Because there's this almost like built -256 +257 00:10:50,645 --> 00:10:52,000 in trust that happens when you can- -257 +258 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:53,200 Seth: Yeah. -258 +259 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,051 Bekah: -get into that deep laughter together. -259 +260 00:10:55,696 --> 00:10:57,000 Seth: That's right. Totally. -260 +261 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,000 -Bekah: Well, thanks -- +Bekah: Well, thanks-- -261 +262 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:58,966 Seth: It's a good question. -262 +263 00:10:59,431 --> 00:11:01,000 -Bekah: Yeah. Yeah! I what -- +Bekah: Yeah. Yeah! I-- what-- now, I'm like, what is the -263 +264 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,311 neurobiology of -264 +265 00:11:02,311 --> 00:11:07,171 laughing together? [Seth laughs] Thanks for being here with us -265 +266 00:11:07,171 --> 00:11:08,000 today, Seth. We're very- -266 +267 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,000 Seth: My pleasure. -267 +268 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,321 Bekah: -excited to have you on the podcast. -268 +269 00:11:10,846 --> 00:11:12,046 Seth: Thanks for having me. It is awesome. -269 +270 00:11:12,541 --> 00:11:16,110 Bekah: Yeah! We always like to start with origin stories. So -270 +271 00:11:16,115 --> 00:11:21,030 how have you got to this point -in your world -- of your- your +in your world-- of your- your -271 +272 00:11:21,035 --> 00:11:22,561 -journey of Seth -- being Seth +journey of Seth-- being Seth Hall? -272 +273 00:11:23,115 --> 00:11:25,666 Seth: Yeah, sure. I'll- I'll -give you the- I'll give you the +give you the-- I'll give you the -273 +274 00:11:25,666 --> 00:11:30,000 short version [laughs]. Yeah. -So, for me ... let's just -- +So, for me ... let's just-- -274 +275 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,245 I'll just -275 +276 00:11:31,245 --> 00:11:34,000 start with kinda ... how I ended up in development. Like, -276 +277 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,216 -wh-when I was -- +wh-when I was-- -277 +278 00:11:36,336 --> 00:11:38,000 -I know -- I always liked -creative stuff growing up. +I know-- I always liked creative +stuff growing up. -278 +279 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,096 I was always ... I- I grew -279 +280 00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:42,000 up in a single family home. I had a lot of, like, time to -280 +281 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:43,096 myself and- -281 +282 00:11:43,096 --> 00:11:47,145 and- and music was a big escape for me. So when I became an -282 +283 00:11:47,745 --> 00:11:49,000 adult, you know, all I just say -when -- in my 20s, I was like, +when-- in my 20s, I was like, -283 +284 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,375 "I am gonna -284 +285 00:11:51,375 --> 00:11:54,691 do something different. I'm not gonna do a typical path that you -285 +286 00:11:54,691 --> 00:11:58,530 take or you're told that you're -supposed to take." So, I +supposed to take." So I -286 +287 00:11:59,041 --> 00:12:00,000 graduate- graduated from college, and then went and -287 +288 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:01,321 pursued music. So I played -288 +289 00:12:01,321 --> 00:12:06,331 independent music for, you know, for a long time. I also -289 +290 00:12:06,331 --> 00:12:08,711 did video production and film production during all that time. -290 +291 00:12:09,571 --> 00:12:13,500 And then I continued, you know, -did music for about -- pretty +did music for about-- pretty -291 +292 00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:17,280 hardcore for 15 years. Then I just kind of transitioned into -292 +293 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:18,825 the video, film, and then I kinda got into digital stuff, -293 +294 00:12:18,825 --> 00:12:20,370 got my -294 +295 00:12:20,370 --> 00:12:22,831 first computer, and was like, you know, graphic design, -295 +296 00:12:22,836 --> 00:12:24,000 learning how to log into web apps, and all that kind of -296 +297 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,461 stuff, back in 2006. -297 +298 00:12:27,061 --> 00:12:30,841 And then 2011, in the middle of my film and video pursuits, I -298 +299 00:12:30,841 --> 00:12:33,750 started making websites. And it wasn't really planned. It just -299 +300 00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:36,091 kinda happened. And so I started teaching myself -300 +301 00:12:36,091 --> 00:12:39,091 -WordPress and all that- all that -stuff, you know? That kinda +WordPress and all that-- all +that stuff, you know? That kinda -301 +302 00:12:39,091 --> 00:12:44,760 normal story. I got my first tech job in 2013. During that -302 +303 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,091 job, I wa- I decided I wanna go get my master's in film -303 +304 00:12:48,150 --> 00:12:51,150 producing. So I went to a film school here, in North Carolina, -304 +305 00:12:51,931 --> 00:12:54,961 called University of North Carolina School of the Arts. -305 +306 00:12:55,530 --> 00:12:59,000 And ... that was a great experience. I loved it. I took -306 +307 00:12:59,000 --> 00:12:59,941 a break from -307 -00:12:59,941 --> 00:13:02,850 +308 +00:12:59,941 --> 00:13:01,395 coding for a while to produce -videos for the school, actually, +videos for the school-- -308 +309 +00:13:01,395 --> 00:13:02,849 +actually, + +310 00:13:02,850 --> 00:13:05,191 in their marketing department. I -made like three or four short +made, like, three or four short -309 +311 00:13:05,191 --> 00:13:09,240 films. But then I got to a point where I was like, "Okay. -310 +312 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,181 I don't really wanna make videos anymore cuz I've done that so -311 +313 00:13:12,186 --> 00:13:15,811 much. Filmmaking doesn't pay." I thought, "Well, maybe I'll -312 +314 00:13:15,811 --> 00:13:19,171 -do like a -- go back into -development or maybe I'll -- +do, like, a-- go back into +development or maybe I'll-- -313 +315 00:13:19,176 --> 00:13:21,000 maybe do something developer adjacent." So I, like, thought -314 +316 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:21,841 about being a -315 +317 00:13:21,841 --> 00:13:24,421 Scrum Master, you know? I was like, "I've worked in Agile." -316 +318 00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:26,941 And so I kinda pursued that a little bit. And then I realized, -317 +319 00:13:26,941 --> 00:13:30,150 "You know what? I really like -development." So I -- so two +development." So I-- so two -318 +320 00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:32,000 -thou- and it -- just, you know, -it's- it's -- a lot of +thou- and it-- just-- you know, +it's- it's-- a lot of -319 +321 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,360 opportunities, and -320 +322 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,890 it pays well, and it's fun, and challenging. So back in 2019 -321 +323 00:13:38,071 --> 00:13:39,735 December, I jumped back in full -force, and shortly after, I +force and shortly after, I -322 +324 00:13:39,735 --> 00:13:41,399 joined -323 +325 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,211 Virtual Coffee, you know? And- and so, for all of 2020 and all -324 +326 00:13:45,211 --> 00:13:49,380 of 2021, I basically was doing front-end development. Multiple -325 +327 00:13:49,730 --> 00:13:53,640 contracts, some of 'em were -toxic. Some of 'em were -- +toxic. Some of 'em were-- -326 +328 00:13:54,405 --> 00:13:57,676 didn't value me. Like, they weren't great experiences. -327 +329 00:13:58,096 --> 00:13:59,625 But I just kept pursuing, kept pursuing, kept pursuing. And -328 +330 00:13:59,625 --> 00:14:01,154 then -329 +331 00:14:01,505 --> 00:14:07,306 -I found a job at Uniform -- a -job posting at Uniform. I -- it +I found a job at Uniform-- a job +posting at Uniform. I-- it -330 +332 00:14:07,311 --> 00:14:10,005 -sounded just like me. It was- it -was working in the Jamstack as +sounded just like me. It was-- +it was working in the Jamstack -331 +333 00:14:10,005 --> 00:14:14,000 -a front-end developer. It wasn't -a ... product. It was, +as a front-end developer. It +wasn't a ... product. It was, -332 +334 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,015 like, demos. So, -333 +335 00:14:15,015 --> 00:14:19,066 like, our internal team demos our product with, like, fake -334 +336 00:14:19,066 --> 00:14:20,000 websites, essentially. So I was like, "Oh, that's great." I -335 +337 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,225 -can make -- +can make-- -336 +338 00:14:21,586 --> 00:14:24,586 basically make client websites without the client, you know? -337 +339 00:14:24,586 --> 00:14:28,096 -I can make -- I can be a part of +I can make-- I can be a part of a product team without being on -338 +340 00:14:28,096 --> 00:14:31,816 the product team, you know? And so, I got hired as a demo -339 +341 00:14:31,821 --> 00:14:35,025 -engineer, and I've been working +engineer and I've been working for them for about four -340 +342 00:14:35,025 --> 00:14:39,586 -months now, maybe five months. +months now-- maybe five months. But shortly after I got hired, -341 +343 00:14:39,591 --> 00:14:42,000 -it was -- it be-became evident +it was-- it be-became evident that ... what they really -342 +344 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,041 needed was someone to 'own' -343 +345 00:14:44,041 --> 00:14:47,490 the demos. Like, product own the demos, not actually code the -344 +346 00:14:47,490 --> 00:14:50,821 demos. So I transitioned to a technical product owner where -345 +347 00:14:50,821 --> 00:14:55,971 I'm working with designers, tech lead for developers, -346 +348 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,000 marketers, sales engineers, like, I'm working with a lot -347 +349 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,270 of people -348 +350 00:15:00,270 --> 00:15:03,211 to kinda guide all the demo tracks and demo initiatives we -349 +351 00:15:03,291 --> 00:15:06,000 -have. But I'm- I'm -- like, now, +have. But I'm- I'm-- like, now, I'm planning roadmaps. -350 +352 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,306 I'm- I'm- I'm basically -351 +353 00:15:07,306 --> 00:15:10,696 -producing. Like I- like I did in -film, like, was -- with +producing. Like I-- like I did +in film, like, was-- with -352 +354 00:15:10,696 --> 00:15:14,265 film, I used to do camera sound, editing all the stuff. Then I -353 +355 00:15:14,265 --> 00:15:17,836 moved to producing where I was, like, hiring those people, and -354 +356 00:15:17,836 --> 00:15:20,265 knew what they were doing, and I was planning the project. Well, -355 +357 00:15:20,270 --> 00:15:22,000 -now, it's- it's -- an -interesting equivalent is I'll +now, it's- it's-- an interesting +equivalent is I'll-- -356 +358 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:22,905 --- I used to +I used to -357 +359 00:15:22,905 --> 00:15:25,426 be in the trenches of front-end -as y'all know, cuz we've talked +as y'all know cuz we've talked -358 +360 00:15:25,426 --> 00:15:28,000 many times about it. But now I'm, like, planning that stuff. -359 +361 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:29,311 So I'm- -360 +362 00:15:29,461 --> 00:15:32,971 I'm not the developer, but I'm a developer adjacent. So my -361 +363 00:15:32,971 --> 00:15:36,451 initial, you know, thought back -in 2019, where maybe I could do +in 2019 where maybe I could do -362 -00:15:36,451 --> 00:15:39,900 +364 +00:15:36,451 --> 00:15:38,175 something developer adjacent, -has like come to fruition, like, +has, like, come to fruition, -363 +365 +00:15:38,175 --> 00:15:39,899 +like, + +366 00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:43,681 on accident. And I am absolutely loving it. So- so that's kind of -364 +367 00:15:43,681 --> 00:15:47,581 where and how I ended up here. You know, to me, development is -365 +368 00:15:47,821 --> 00:15:51,000 very much aligns with my- my -goals in life. It's, like, +goals in life. It's, like-- -366 +369 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,230 it's- it's -367 +370 00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:55,801 creative, it's challenging, it's fun, it's flexible. It doesn't -368 +371 00:15:55,801 --> 00:15:59,581 rule my life, you know? I get to go to work in my office, and get -369 +372 00:15:59,581 --> 00:16:02,130 to leave, and be with my family. So, like, everything I wanted -370 +373 00:16:02,130 --> 00:16:05,000 when I was 20, when I pursued music and film, I have f-found -371 +374 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,030 that. I -372 +375 00:16:06,030 --> 00:16:13,081 have found autonomy, good pay, satis- satisfactory work. And -373 +376 00:16:13,081 --> 00:16:16,000 -I'm not -- like, it's very -unique too, in- in- in a way. +I'm not-- like, it's very unique +too, in- in- in a way. -374 +377 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:16,471 Even though there's -375 +378 00:16:16,471 --> 00:16:18,571 a lot of developers, it's still a unique way to make a living. -376 +379 00:16:18,571 --> 00:16:21,000 Cuz most people I talked to -don't do what I do. So it all +don't do what I do. So it all-- -377 +380 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:22,321 --- it fit -- checks +it fit-- checks -378 +381 00:16:22,321 --> 00:16:25,576 -all the boxes for me. So- so, +all the boxes for me. So- so-- yeah. That's- that's kind of -379 +382 00:16:25,576 --> 00:16:29,655 -my origin story and- and- and -- +my origin story and- and- and-- a professional origin story. -380 +383 00:16:29,716 --> 00:16:32,000 And I'm very happy where I am. I'm, like, I haven't been -381 +384 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,946 -happier in- in the- +happier in- in the-- -382 +385 00:16:33,946 --> 00:16:36,916 -in the- in the tech -- in my -tech career than I am now. So -- +in the-- in the tech-- in my +tech career than I am now. So-- -383 +386 00:16:38,035 --> 00:16:41,456 Bekah: Yeah, I love that. I wanna backtrack just a second. -384 +387 00:16:42,301 --> 00:16:44,971 -And so, you've done a lot of +And so you've done a lot of different things. I love how you -385 +388 00:16:44,971 --> 00:16:47,000 say that this kind of, like, mimics some of the things that -386 +389 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:47,610 you were -387 +390 00:16:47,610 --> 00:16:52,500 -doing before with producing, and +doing before with producing and how those skills lead here. But- -388 +391 00:16:52,500 --> 00:16:52,561 Seth: Mm-hmm. -389 +392 00:16:52,561 --> 00:16:55,000 Bekah: -was there, like, a pivotal moment for you when you -390 +393 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,490 decided that you -391 +394 00:16:56,495 --> 00:16:59,490 were ready to make this transition? Because, you know, I -392 +395 00:16:59,490 --> 00:17:03,120 -think it's sometimes hard to -- +think it's sometimes hard to-- you're kind of toying with the -393 +396 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,631 idea or maybe you take on a -little bit of side work, but at +little bit of side work but at -394 +397 00:17:06,631 --> 00:17:11,010 some point, you have to say, "There's a career transition and -395 +398 00:17:11,010 --> 00:17:12,540 now I'm going to go all in." -396 +399 00:17:13,411 --> 00:17:17,701 Seth: Yeah. So from, like, film to web was literally wasn't -397 +400 00:17:17,701 --> 00:17:20,000 -planned at all. It was- it was --- I sort of just felt this +planned at all. It was-- it +was-- I sort of just felt this -398 +401 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,066 call and this draw to -399 +402 00:17:22,066 --> 00:17:25,185 do it. And all of a sudden I had -four clients — four WordPress +four clients-- four WordPress -400 +403 00:17:25,185 --> 00:17:28,000 clients. And this is, like, had no experience. So I was -401 +404 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,086 doing all of -402 +405 00:17:29,086 --> 00:17:31,365 the stuff you do to learn WordPress. And of course, that's -403 +406 00:17:31,371 --> 00:17:33,826 not the best platform to learn on because it's super confusing. -404 +407 00:17:33,826 --> 00:17:34,486 Bekah: Yes. -405 +408 00:17:34,486 --> 00:17:36,000 -Seth: But I mean -- but that's +Seth: But I mean-- but that's good. I was in the trenches. -406 +409 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,125 So it was -407 +410 00:17:37,131 --> 00:17:39,586 never a conscious effort. It was just something that I ended up -408 +411 00:17:39,586 --> 00:17:43,516 doing and I just did it cuz I liked it. And I worked nights -409 +412 00:17:43,516 --> 00:17:46,846 and weekends cuz I liked it. And then it started paying. Then I -410 +413 00:17:46,846 --> 00:17:50,266 got my first tech job, you know? -And- and so -- but the +And- and so-- but the -411 +414 00:17:50,266 --> 00:17:55,036 transition between a- a front-end engineer to a product -412 +415 00:17:55,036 --> 00:17:59,000 owner that was very much ... a welcome transition. Because as -413 +416 00:17:59,000 --> 00:17:59,865 y'all have -414 +417 00:17:59,865 --> 00:18:04,996 seen or know, like, front-end development ... parts of it are -415 +418 00:18:06,465 --> 00:18:09,000 ... easy? Quote, unquote, easy. But a lot of it is really -416 +419 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,296 difficult. And -417 +420 00:18:11,296 --> 00:18:14,000 -I just found myself -- I was -just was getting tired of the +I just found myself-- I was +just-- was getting tired of the -418 +421 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,736 grind. I was getting tired -419 +422 00:18:15,736 --> 00:18:20,086 -of like, not breaking through, -and not, you know, not -- still +of, like, not breaking through, +and not, you know, not-- still -420 +423 00:18:20,086 --> 00:18:22,546 not knowing stuff, and still not knowing how to learn stuff I -421 +424 00:18:22,546 --> 00:18:25,185 -don't know. And- and, yeah. I +don't know. And- and-- yeah. I could, you know, put together a -422 +425 00:18:25,185 --> 00:18:29,086 Jamstack site. I could do some product feature work and stuff, -423 +426 00:18:29,086 --> 00:18:32,000 but it just got to be ... exhausting. And my skill sets -424 +427 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,766 are- are very -425 +428 00:18:33,766 --> 00:18:38,776 much relational communicate- communicative, listening, -426 +429 00:18:38,776 --> 00:18:43,000 validating, planning. I mean, -I'm engineering. The-there's a +I'm engineering. The-there's a-- -427 +430 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,000 --- my -- in my personal life, -I'm, like, producing the biggest +my-- in my personal life, I'm, +like, producing the biggest -428 +431 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,355 thing I've ever done, -429 +432 00:18:47,385 --> 00:18:52,455 which might come up. But, like, -my mindset and my default is +my mindset and my default is, -430 +433 00:18:52,455 --> 00:18:55,000 -like to dig in there and +like, to dig in there and organize a- a big thing. And -431 +434 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,296 that could be a- a-a movie, -432 +435 00:18:56,445 --> 00:19:00,675 -that could be -- now it's a -three different demo tracks, you +that could be-- now it's a three +different demo tracks, you -433 +436 00:19:00,675 --> 00:19:03,000 know? And in- in my life, it's a, you know, other personal -434 +437 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,276 stuff that I'm ... -435 +438 00:19:04,816 --> 00:19:08,000 producing, essentially. And so- -so, yeah. So it was -- +so-- yeah. So it was-- -436 +439 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:08,671 the- the initial -437 +440 00:19:08,671 --> 00:19:11,550 thing wasn't a conscious effort. It really was outta nowhere. And -438 +441 00:19:11,550 --> 00:19:13,800 I was kinda like, "What?" Like, "This doesn't make any sense. -439 +442 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,000 I'm trying to pursue film. What- -what do you mean -- what's +what do you mean-- what's -440 +443 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:16,590 going on here?" -441 +444 00:19:16,596 --> 00:19:20,191 -But at -- it- it quickly became +But at-- it- it quickly became something like, "Okay, this is -442 +445 00:19:20,195 --> 00:19:22,171 really good for me." Yeah. -443 +446 00:19:23,445 --> 00:19:26,355 Dan: So you used the word 'producing' a few times there. -444 +447 00:19:26,566 --> 00:19:28,000 And that's a word that you don't usually hear in the- -445 +448 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,566 the development, -446 +449 00:19:30,165 --> 00:19:32,415 like, aside of things, right? But you hear it a lot in -447 +450 00:19:32,415 --> 00:19:35,000 -entertainment. And- and -- so, I -was just wondering if- if +entertainment. And- and so I was +just wondering if- if -448 +451 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:35,596 -there -- your +there-- your -449 +452 00:19:35,596 --> 00:19:38,000 experience with ... you know, in- in film school and stuff -450 +453 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,601 like that ... -451 +454 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,000 you know, the producer of ik- I'm not in the entertainment -452 +455 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,471 [laughs]. I- I listen to -453 +456 00:19:43,471 --> 00:19:45,000 some podcasts and stuff, you know, but like- -454 +457 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:45,200 Seth: Yeah. -455 +458 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,000 -Dan: -if- if there's- if there's -some bit of that you took away, +Dan: -if- if there's-- if +there's some bit of that you -456 +459 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,181 -from the -- from +took away from the-- from -457 +460 00:19:51,181 --> 00:19:54,000 film school to guide your work -now a-as a- as a sort of +now a-as a-- as a sort of -458 +461 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:54,391 [unintelligible], you know? -459 +462 00:19:54,391 --> 00:19:57,810 Seth: 100%. Totally, totally. You- you know, in- in- -460 +463 00:19:57,810 --> 00:19:59,000 in software, we'd call it project management, I guess. -461 +464 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,540 You know? -462 +465 00:20:00,601 --> 00:20:02,000 Dan: Yeah, right. But that's, -like, yeah. That's the -- I +like-- yeah. That's the-- I -463 +466 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,270 don't feel -464 +467 00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:06,510 -like that covers every -- to me, +like that covers every-- to me, the- the word 'producer' has- -465 +468 00:20:06,510 --> 00:20:08,000 has a- a bit of a different connota- I mean, it's close, -466 +469 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:08,701 you know? It's overlap. -467 +470 00:20:08,701 --> 00:20:08,905 Seth: Yeah. -468 +471 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,891 Dan: But, like, a bit of a different connotation, I think. -469 -00:20:10,891 --> 00:20:13,000 -It's a good word to use, but I'd -like to hear what you -- - -470 -00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:13,770 -like -- +472 +00:20:10,891 --> 00:20:13,770 +It's a good word to use but I'd +like to hear what you-- like-- -471 +473 00:20:13,891 --> 00:20:15,580 Seth: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So -I- so I got my ma- +I-- so I got my ma- -472 +474 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:15,691 -Dan: Wh- what do you think of it --- what do you think of that? +Dan: Wh- what do you think of +it-- what do you think of that? -473 +475 00:20:16,905 --> 00:20:19,066 Seth: Yeah, it's a good question. I got my master's -474 +476 00:20:19,066 --> 00:20:22,155 -in creative producing, which -- +in creative producing, which-- so, in film, there's a lot of -475 +477 00:20:22,155 --> 00:20:24,526 different producers. There's, like, your boots on the ground -476 +478 00:20:24,526 --> 00:20:27,826 producer, there's- there's associate producers, there's -477 +479 00:20:27,826 --> 00:20:31,000 executive producers who, like, fund it or make a connection, -478 +480 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:31,546 and they -479 +481 00:20:31,546 --> 00:20:34,246 get a credit. But then the creative producer is the one -480 +482 00:20:34,250 --> 00:20:37,000 that, like, comes up with the idea or, like, options of -481 +483 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,016 script. Bekah, you -482 +484 00:20:39,016 --> 00:20:40,501 know about this. And then they- they hire the writer. They- -483 +485 00:20:40,501 --> 00:20:41,986 they- -484 +486 00:20:42,046 --> 00:20:43,590 they develop the script. And then they take the script into -485 +487 00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:45,134 ... -486 +488 00:20:45,780 --> 00:20:48,871 raising money or- or making a pitch deck to raise money. And -487 +489 00:20:48,871 --> 00:20:51,391 then they take that money, and they go into pre-production, and -488 +490 00:20:51,391 --> 00:20:52,830 then they keep going through production, and post, and -489 +491 00:20:52,830 --> 00:20:54,269 marketing, -490 +492 00:20:54,276 --> 00:20:55,968 and distribution. So creative producer is like the unsung -491 +493 00:20:55,968 --> 00:20:57,660 hero, -492 +494 00:20:57,750 --> 00:21:01,951 essentially ... in film. Because most film, it- it falls on the -493 +495 00:21:01,951 --> 00:21:04,921 director or the star of the -movie. It -- but- but producer +movie. It-- but- but producer -494 +496 00:21:04,921 --> 00:21:07,471 doesn't get much credit. But without the producer, it -495 +497 00:21:07,471 --> 00:21:11,000 wouldn't even exist. And so ... all through that process, -496 +498 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,961 really, that- that process -497 +499 00:21:12,961 --> 00:21:16,000 is all about, like ... it's all about, like, you know, for -498 +500 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:16,875 example, like, -499 +501 00:21:16,875 --> 00:21:22,336 what are we trying to say? Like, -you know, in a- in a- in a -- +you know, in a-- in a-- in a-- -500 +502 00:21:22,340 --> 00:21:23,000 who's- who's our audience, right? Both of those things -501 +503 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,086 can translate to- to -502 +504 00:21:26,145 --> 00:21:29,596 a product in- in software. And -then like, who are the people +then, like, who are the people -503 +505 00:21:29,746 --> 00:21:32,596 I'm working with? How do I communicate with them ... that -504 +506 00:21:32,601 --> 00:21:36,000 translates to software? And then- then the nuts and bolts -505 +507 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:36,885 of it all -506 +508 00:21:36,885 --> 00:21:40,695 -which is let's- let's- let's -plan the project and actually +which is lets- lets- lets plan +the project and actually -507 +509 00:21:40,695 --> 00:21:45,000 do the work, same thing in -software. And so, it- it -- I +software. And so, it- it-- I -508 +510 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:45,750 -just -- it just seems +just-- it just seems -509 +511 00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:49,411 like a perfect thing for me because it's, like, already -510 +512 00:21:49,411 --> 00:21:51,000 what I was good at. And I've already got all the experience -511 +513 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,411 in it, and it -512 +514 00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:56,280 100% is transferable over to software. It's just different- -513 +515 00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:59,671 different medium and different ways to do it. Like, you -514 +516 00:21:59,671 --> 00:22:03,540 -don't have editors and, you +don't have editors and-- you know, in software, but you have -515 +517 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,300 QA, you know, Quality and Assurance or whatever. You don't -516 +518 00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:11,280 -have sound audio mixers, but you +have sound audio mixers but you have, you know, front-end -517 +519 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,391 -developers or backend or -security or whatever. So- so I +developers, or backend, or +security, or whatever. So- so I -518 +520 00:22:15,395 --> 00:22:19,000 learned a ton going to school. -Like, I learned -- I- I took +Like, I learned-- I- I took -519 +521 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:19,171 what I -520 +522 00:22:19,171 --> 00:22:22,830 -had already learned in life and +had already learned in life, and then, like, just applied it to -521 -00:22:23,010 --> 00:22:27,211 -intimate collaboration and then, -like, different personalities, +523 +00:22:23,010 --> 00:22:25,110 +intimate collaboration, and +then, like, different -522 +524 +00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:27,210 +personalities, + +525 00:22:27,211 --> 00:22:29,000 and different cultures, and different ages, and different -523 +526 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,766 genders, and everything. -524 +527 00:22:30,766 --> 00:22:31,906 -Like -- cuz when I went to art -school, I was like 20 years +Like-- cuz when I went to art +school, I was, like, 20 years -525 +528 00:22:31,906 --> 00:22:33,046 older -526 +529 00:22:33,046 --> 00:22:35,655 than most people. And there was a ton of people that were just -527 +530 00:22:35,655 --> 00:22:40,000 different than me. But I really just got to ... res- respect -528 +531 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:40,875 them, and see what -529 +532 00:22:40,875 --> 00:22:42,945 they were about, and learn how to be with them, and learn how -530 +533 00:22:42,945 --> 00:22:47,655 to deal with conflict, and- and- and learn how to persevere on a -531 +534 00:22:47,655 --> 00:22:51,405 giant project that seems never ending. And that is software -532 +535 00:22:51,405 --> 00:22:55,336 development in many ways. So, that's kind of what I -533 +536 00:22:55,336 --> 00:22:57,000 -transferred over and it feels -- -it- it's just same skill +transferred over and it feels-- +it-- it's just same skill -534 +537 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,881 -set. Just different application, +set, just different application, essentially. -535 +538 00:23:01,036 --> 00:23:03,855 Dan: I love that. I love that a -lot. And you hit one of our -- +lot. And you hit one of our-- -536 +539 00:23:03,976 --> 00:23:06,976 Virtual Coffee bingo words, which is intimate. And I think -537 +540 00:23:06,976 --> 00:23:07,000 you- -538 +541 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:07,000 Seth: Yes. -539 +542 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,398 Dan: -used the phrase intimate collaboration, which I love. -540 +543 00:23:08,398 --> 00:23:09,796 And- -541 +544 00:23:09,855 --> 00:23:13,635 -and it's -- it paints such a -different picture that -- from +and it's-- it paints such a +different picture that-- from -542 +545 00:23:13,635 --> 00:23:16,665 that mindset, paints such a different picture than ... some -543 +546 00:23:16,665 --> 00:23:19,125 of the software, like, when you come at it from the software -544 +547 00:23:19,125 --> 00:23:21,000 -land, everybody -- all -- -software developers, lots of +land, everybody-- all-- software +developers, lots of -545 +548 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,556 times, want to ... remove -546 +549 00:23:24,826 --> 00:23:28,425 the human aspects of things, right? And they build tools to, -547 +550 00:23:28,425 --> 00:23:32,145 like, plug things in or project management tools or, you know, -548 +551 00:23:32,151 --> 00:23:34,000 -everybody has stacks of cards to --- oh, I'm sorry. Everyone - -549 -00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,236 -has stacks of +everybody has stacks of cards +to-- oh, I'm sorry. Everyone -550 -00:23:35,236 --> 00:23:36,000 -cards to get through [chuckles]. -And -- +552 +00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,000 +has stacks of cards to get +through [chuckles]. And-- -551 +553 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,000 Bekah: What do you think he was here [chuckles]? -552 +554 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,000 Dan: I know. -553 +555 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,000 Bekah: You didn't know there was a guest [chuckles]? -554 +556 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,796 Dan: He's always ... bothering me [chuckles]. -555 +557 00:23:41,881 --> 00:23:42,225 Seth: [Chuckles] Is he, like, bringing you a drink or -556 +558 00:23:42,225 --> 00:23:42,569 something? -557 +559 00:23:42,855 --> 00:23:45,346 Dan: Special guest. Yeah, I -know. He's -- yeah, yeah. He's- +know. He's-- yeah, yeah. He's- -558 +560 00:23:45,375 --> 00:23:48,286 -he's -- he brings me my- my- my +he's-- he brings me my- my- my Scotch at the, you know, under -559 +561 00:23:48,286 --> 00:23:51,316 my desk, the end of the day. Except, it's ... the middle of -560 +562 00:23:51,316 --> 00:23:55,605 the day. Anyway [chuckles], what was I saying? So, yes. I think -561 +563 00:23:55,611 --> 00:23:58,516 -that- I think that's probably -another connection between you +that-- I think that's probably +another connection between you-- -562 +564 00:23:58,546 --> 00:24:03,000 --- the ... your experience -within the entertainment, you +the ... your experience within +the entertainment, you know, -563 +565 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,546 -know, i-in +i-in -564 +566 00:24:04,546 --> 00:24:09,675 -film -- in the film realm is- is +film-- in the film realm is- is making these connections is such -565 +567 00:24:09,675 --> 00:24:11,865 an important thing. And it's- it's very important in software -566 +568 00:24:11,865 --> 00:24:14,746 -too. But I- I think it gets -- +too. But I- I think it gets-- people tend to abstract it away. -567 +569 00:24:14,746 --> 00:24:17,715 People tend to abstract away the human connection aspect of -568 -00:24:17,776 --> 00:24:21,000 -anything. And I feel like work --- everybody -- all -- - -569 -00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:22,155 -we're all +570 +00:24:17,776 --> 00:24:22,155 +anything. And I feel like work-- +everybody-- all-- we're all +571 570 00:24:22,155 --> 00:24:26,415 -doing, and everybody sort of +doing and everybody sort of naturally does at Virtual -571 +572 00:24:26,506 --> 00:24:28,000 Coffee, whether they are officially doing it or not. -572 +573 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,766 -It's -- and I'm seeing +It's-- and I'm seeing -573 +574 00:24:30,766 --> 00:24:33,465 other people start to swing this -way too. It's -- lots of people +way too. It's-- lots of people -574 +575 00:24:33,465 --> 00:24:37,141 talk about community these days, and building communities in your -575 +576 00:24:37,921 --> 00:24:40,381 company, and- and things like making connections like that. -576 +577 00:24:40,381 --> 00:24:43,800 And I think we're finding out, like, it's so important to -577 +578 00:24:43,921 --> 00:24:46,590 foster those sort of intimate connections. A-and obviously, -578 +579 00:24:46,590 --> 00:24:49,000 you can go probably too far [laughs] but, like- -579 +580 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:49,000 Seth: Sure. -580 +581 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,181 Dan: -remembering that all the people -581 +582 00:24:51,181 --> 00:24:53,971 are people, right? And everybody -that works on a project is -- +that works on a project is-- -582 +583 00:24:53,976 --> 00:24:56,490 has their own stake in it. And, -you know, it- it's -- the +you know, it-- it's-- the -583 +584 00:24:56,490 --> 00:24:58,000 project's gonna be better if you -have somebody like that -- +have somebody like that-- -584 +585 00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,010 have somebody -585 +586 00:24:59,010 --> 00:25:02,971 like you, you know? Fostering these intimate, you know, -586 +587 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:03,661 connections and stuff like that. -587 +588 00:25:03,810 --> 00:25:06,510 Seth: Yeah. I mean, that's exactly right. I mean, and part -588 +589 00:25:06,510 --> 00:25:10,381 -of that is like, you know, we -- +of that is like, you know, we-- is giving shouts out to people, -589 +590 00:25:10,740 --> 00:25:13,651 shoutouts to people, whatever you wanna say. Like, -590 +591 00:25:13,651 --> 00:25:16,000 acknowledging people and- and- and celebrating them. Now you'd -591 +592 00:25:17,111 --> 00:25:21,000 mentioned community and ... how it's kind of becoming more -592 +593 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,711 prevalent in software. -593 +594 00:25:23,891 --> 00:25:26,560 -And I'm -- to me, that's great. -Cuz that's what it is -- that's +And I'm-- to me, that's great. +Cuz that's what it is-- that's -594 +595 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:31,451 -what it's about for me, just in -many ways, is- is friendship, +what it's about for me — just in +many ways — is- is friendship, -595 +596 00:25:31,780 --> 00:25:39,000 and authenticity, and, you know ... intimate ... you know, -596 +597 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:39,941 friendships that -597 -00:25:39,945 --> 00:25:42,193 -are real. That- that like bring -the joy in -- to life and bring- - 598 +00:25:39,945 --> 00:25:41,069 +are real. That- that, like, +bring the joy in-- to life and + +599 +00:25:41,069 --> 00:25:42,193 +bring- + +600 00:25:42,193 --> 00:25:44,441 bring, -599 +601 00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:46,840 you know, bring things to life. That's what it is for me. And- -600 +602 00:25:47,230 --> 00:25:49,000 -and -- so, you know, part of -that is, like, you know, at +and so, you know, part of that +is, like, you know, at -601 +603 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,056 work, I like to do shoutouts to -602 +604 00:25:51,060 --> 00:25:54,806 people, and, like, really just celebrate people, and- and, you -603 +605 00:25:54,806 --> 00:25:57,895 know, I'm- I'm a super positive, you know? I don't wanna have any -604 +606 00:25:57,901 --> 00:25:59,773 conflict. If there is conflict, -I'll deal with it. But like -- +I'll deal with it. But, like-- -605 +607 00:25:59,773 --> 00:26:01,645 and -606 +608 00:26:01,651 --> 00:26:04,645 I've had so many jobs where it's just, like, not like that at -607 +609 00:26:04,645 --> 00:26:07,000 -all. And it's so -- makes me so +all. And it's so-- makes me so anxious and nervous, and I -608 +610 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,455 -don't- I don't know +don't-- I don't know -609 +611 00:26:08,455 --> 00:26:12,385 how to find my footing, and- and, like, I just feel like -610 +612 00:26:12,806 --> 00:26:16,000 undervalued and- and- and just not in the right place. And -611 +613 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,336 so at Uniform, -612 +614 00:26:17,336 --> 00:26:20,425 like, it's the exact opposite. Like, everybody is super -613 +615 00:26:20,425 --> 00:26:25,000 friendly, super laid back, just very welcoming. And- and a -614 +616 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,096 -community, it's +community, it's, -615 +617 00:26:26,096 --> 00:26:29,000 -like -- culturally at Uniform is -it -- the culture at Uniform +like-- culturally at Uniform is +it-- the culture at Uniform -616 +618 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,375 is very ... -617 +619 00:26:31,766 --> 00:26:35,000 like, on point. It's great. And it fits my personality, and -618 +620 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:35,846 -I feel -- +I feel-- -619 +621 00:26:35,846 --> 00:26:38,000 and, say, from that, I feel valued and I feel empowered -620 +622 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,026 to do really -621 +623 00:26:39,026 --> 00:26:41,000 good work, right? I mean, that's how it works. You- you- -622 +624 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:41,200 Bekah: Yeah. -623 +625 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,520 Seth: -appreciate people and -624 +626 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,730 you're- you're- you're a nice pleasant people to be around. -625 +627 00:26:45,730 --> 00:26:48,550 You're gonna wanna work hard and collaborate together to do -626 +628 00:26:48,550 --> 00:26:50,000 things as opposed to feeling -like you can't -- you're +like you can't-- you're -627 +629 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,830 walking on thin ice or whatever, you know? -628 -00:26:52,705 --> 00:26:54,130 +630 +00:26:52,705 --> 00:26:55,555 Bekah: I- I love that. And I think that one of the things -629 -00:26:54,130 --> 00:26:55,555 -that - -630 +631 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,313 -you -- one of the words you +that you-- one of the words you used, au- authenticity, is so -631 +632 00:26:57,313 --> 00:26:59,066 important. -632 +633 00:26:59,066 --> 00:27:01,586 Because I think that there are a number of companies out there -633 +634 00:27:01,586 --> 00:27:07,135 that recognize that community within the company is good and -634 +635 00:27:07,141 --> 00:27:10,675 -can be really useful, but they +can be really useful but they come at it from a n-not an -635 +636 00:27:10,675 --> 00:27:14,000 authentic approach. Like, "We're gonna make this company -636 +637 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,276 a community," -637 +638 00:27:15,276 --> 00:27:18,846 right? And then there's this forcefulness, like, "We're gonna -638 +639 00:27:18,846 --> 00:27:22,145 be a community. Now you have to go to this fun thing that we're -639 +640 00:27:22,145 --> 00:27:24,000 all doing together," right? Like- -640 +641 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,000 Seth: Yeah. Sure, sure. -641 +642 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,066 Bekah: -no, I don't wanna do that ... fun -642 +643 00:27:27,096 --> 00:27:33,701 thing all together. There- there has to be ... that -643 +644 00:27:33,701 --> 00:27:38,171 authenticity there that allows for vulnerability and openness. -644 +645 00:27:38,201 --> 00:27:42,191 And, you know, I've also seen a number of leaders in positions -645 +646 00:27:42,191 --> 00:27:48,280 that kind of [silence] I don't know the right word for this. -646 +647 00:27:48,286 --> 00:27:50,000 They perform authenticity- -647 +648 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:50,200 Seth: Mm. -648 +649 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:55,451 Bekah: -so they act in a way that appears to be -649 +650 00:27:55,451 --> 00:27:57,881 -authentic, but, like, the -further -- +authentic but, like, the +further-- -650 +651 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,000 Seth: Yeah. Whi- which is, inherently, not authentic. -651 +652 00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,006 Yeah [chuckles]. -652 +653 00:27:59,365 --> 00:28:02,125 Bekah: Yeah! And the further you -get into it, then it- it just +get into it, then it- it just, -653 +654 00:28:02,125 --> 00:28:06,145 -like -- then- then the, like, +like-- then- then the, like, suspicious radar goes up. Like, -654 +655 00:28:06,236 --> 00:28:10,645 "Uh, I don't know that you're a person that I can really trust -655 +656 00:28:10,645 --> 00:28:14,215 and talk to." And then that creates more of a divide. And -656 +657 00:28:14,486 --> 00:28:16,945 when you have that, when you don't have somebody who's -657 -00:28:16,945 --> 00:28:20,185 -authentic or vulnerable or, you -know, even getting back to that, - 658 +00:28:16,945 --> 00:28:18,565 +authentic, or vulnerable, or, +you know, even getting back to + +659 +00:28:18,565 --> 00:28:20,185 +that, + +660 00:28:20,425 --> 00:28:22,505 like, intro question of somebody that you can laugh with, then -659 +661 00:28:22,505 --> 00:28:24,585 -you -- +you-- -660 +662 00:28:24,615 --> 00:28:28,096 there's this distance. There's this guard that you can put up -661 +663 00:28:28,096 --> 00:28:33,375 or that you might put up that makes it harder for you to be -662 +664 00:28:33,375 --> 00:28:37,155 effective at your job or to -communicate with other people, +communicate with other people -663 +665 00:28:37,155 --> 00:28:41,000 because there's always this, like, leeriness about where you -664 +666 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,885 stand in -665 +667 00:28:42,885 --> 00:28:48,685 -that, you know, relationship. Or -in that collaboration or- or +that, you know, relationship, or +in that collaboration, or- or -666 +668 00:28:48,685 --> 00:28:51,655 whatever it is. So I think that, you know, having someone -667 +669 00:28:51,655 --> 00:28:57,000 authentic leading a team is so important in- -668 +670 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:57,200 Seth: Yeah. -669 +671 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,905 Bekah: -forming those bonds that you need for your company. -670 +672 00:29:01,300 --> 00:29:03,580 Seth: Totally. We just implemented this thing called -671 +673 00:29:03,586 --> 00:29:08,441 15Five. It's a online web service that allows for, like, -672 +674 00:29:08,441 --> 00:29:12,000 it manages one on ones, it manages, like, high fives. -673 +675 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,151 You can give, -674 +676 00:29:13,181 --> 00:29:16,000 -you know- you know, internal -high fives. And it- and it +you know-- you know, internal +high fives. And it-- and it -675 +677 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,681 really ... -676 +678 00:29:18,010 --> 00:29:21,520 -opens -- it fosters that kind of +opens-- it fosters that kind of community and that kind of -677 +679 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:26,605 culture. And so that's why my- -my company is -- series a funded +my company is-- series a funded -678 +680 00:29:26,605 --> 00:29:28,360 startups. They're just beginning to, like, hiring, work on -679 +681 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,115 culture, -680 +682 00:29:30,121 --> 00:29:32,816 and work on all that stuff that they, in the beginning, you -681 +683 00:29:32,816 --> 00:29:34,000 don't do that cuz you're building a product to get the -682 +684 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,155 funding. But -683 -00:29:35,161 --> 00:29:36,523 +685 +00:29:35,161 --> 00:29:37,885 now that they have the funding, all these things are locking -684 -00:29:36,523 --> 00:29:37,885 -into - -685 +686 00:29:37,891 --> 00:29:41,336 -place, and that -- it's just +into place. And that-- it's just such a relief to- to know that -686 +687 00:29:41,336 --> 00:29:44,000 that's there, and it, like, to -not walk into -- to walk into +not walk into-- to walk into -687 +688 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:44,546 -work and not +work, and not -688 +689 00:29:44,546 --> 00:29:48,059 be anxious, and not be nervous, you know? I'm not dreading, -689 -00:29:48,059 --> 00:29:51,572 -like, - 690 -00:29:52,923 --> 00:29:53,972 -"How am I gonna make this +00:29:48,059 --> 00:29:53,972 +like, "How am I gonna make this JavaScript thing happen 691 @@ -3263,7 +3265,7 @@ am I gonna do this? Like, I 693 00:29:57,992 --> 00:29:59,000 should kn- and then start -beating myself up. "I should +beating myself up, "I should 694 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,212 @@ -3272,59 +3274,59 @@ know this 695 00:30:00,212 --> 00:30:03,000 already. I've been doing this -for this long," and- and, +for this long," and- and-- 696 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,053 -anyway, a-a-and -- +anyway, a-a-and-- 697 00:30:04,712 --> 00:30:07,000 and that's just kinda highlight -the importance of the -- +the importance of the-- 698 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:07,593 of community. 699 -00:30:07,682 --> 00:30:10,383 +00:30:07,682 --> 00:30:09,032 And I will say that, you know, -when I discovered Virtual Coffee +when I discovered Virtual 700 +00:30:09,032 --> 00:30:10,382 +Coffee-- + +701 00:30:10,383 --> 00:30:14,103 --- I don't even remember how I +I don't even remember how I discovered it. I think it was -701 +702 00:30:14,103 --> 00:30:17,073 through Drew Clements somehow. I -don't remember -- +don't remember-- -702 +703 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,988 Bekah: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's true. -703 +704 00:30:18,272 --> 00:30:22,323 Seth: I forget. I somehow found ... him, and then found Virtual -704 +705 00:30:22,323 --> 00:30:24,153 -Coffee. And it was like a huge +Coffee. And it was, like, a huge breath of fresh air. -705 -00:30:24,288 --> 00:30:25,547 -Bekah: He was doing Protege. So, -was it through Protege? I mean - 706 -00:30:25,547 --> 00:30:26,806 --- +00:30:24,288 --> 00:30:26,806 +Bekah: He was doing Protege. So +was it through Protege? I mean-- 707 00:30:26,853 --> 00:30:28,173 @@ -3352,8 +3354,8 @@ was interesting. But i-i-it was 712 00:30:39,018 --> 00:30:42,000 -such a -- the -- when I -discovered Virtual Coffee, it +such a-- the-- when I discovered +Virtual Coffee, it 713 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,048 @@ -3372,11 +3374,11 @@ We were all in the middle of the 716 00:30:49,817 --> 00:30:53,688 pandemic. I had moved out to the -mountains, which I like my -- I +mountains, which I like my-- I 717 00:30:53,688 --> 00:30:55,157 -like being out in the mountains, +like being out in the mountains but I also like people, you 718 @@ -3385,8 +3387,8 @@ know? 719 00:30:57,077 --> 00:31:01,000 -And I just -- it was -- it -saved- it saved me in many ways. +And I just-- it was-- it saved-- +it saved me in many ways. 720 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:01,758 @@ -3409,8 +3411,8 @@ right? That's what community 724 00:31:10,097 --> 00:31:16,000 -does. It- it- it kinda -- it -gives -- it- it- it -- a lot +does. It- it- it kinda-- it +gives-- it- it- it-- a lot 725 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:16,667 @@ -3419,7 +3421,7 @@ of things 726 00:31:16,667 --> 00:31:20,417 start to bloom, right? All the -different -- these beautiful +different-- these beautiful 727 00:31:20,417 --> 00:31:22,000 @@ -3428,11 +3430,11 @@ And we can see it every day 728 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,508 -on our- on +on our-- on 729 00:31:23,508 --> 00:31:27,000 -our Slack team is it -- like, +our Slack team is it-- like, people are doing this and doing 730 @@ -3446,8 +3448,8 @@ support there. And then you got 732 00:31:29,373 --> 00:31:32,673 -in person meetups, and it just --- and that's just a beautiful +in person meetups, and it just-- +and that's just a beautiful 733 00:31:32,673 --> 00:31:35,492 @@ -3474,7 +3476,7 @@ like- like- like it, but ... 738 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,732 -yeah. It just- it just +yeah. It just-- it just 739 00:31:41,792 --> 00:31:44,883 @@ -3483,8 +3485,8 @@ support each other really makes 740 00:31:44,913 --> 00:31:47,343 -the -- makes the indus- makes -our lives better, but it makes +the-- makes the indus- makes our +lives better but it makes 741 00:31:47,343 --> 00:31:48,482 @@ -3503,11 +3505,11 @@ collaboration with people, 744 00:31:57,182 --> 00:32:02,000 openness with other people can -be ... just a -- I don't know. +be ... just a-- I don't know. 745 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:02,702 -I mean, +I mean-- 746 00:32:02,702 --> 00:32:05,163 @@ -3522,7 +3524,7 @@ human experience. And I think 748 00:32:08,373 --> 00:32:13,893 that we often don't think about -that, the -- we -- it's +that, the-- we-- it's 749 00:32:13,893 --> 00:32:15,000 @@ -3541,7 +3543,7 @@ them to go on 752 00:32:16,952 --> 00:32:21,153 all the time and to feel like we -can never leave our computers, +can never leave our computers 753 00:32:21,153 --> 00:32:25,863 @@ -3624,7 +3626,7 @@ important. 770 00:33:02,538 --> 00:33:05,208 -Seth: Yep, 100%. That was -- +Seth: Yep, 100%. That was-- that's 771 @@ -3644,7 +3646,7 @@ Like, "I- I- I need something 774 00:33:12,827 --> 00:33:17,778 meaningful. I- I need something -that's just not like ... just a +that's just not, like ... just a 775 00:33:17,778 --> 00:33:21,000 @@ -3658,7 +3660,7 @@ I'm not saying 777 00:33:21,948 --> 00:33:26,147 this for everybody, but it's -pursuing -- I've always pursued +pursuing-- I've always pursued 778 00:33:26,147 --> 00:33:28,000 @@ -3671,8 +3673,8 @@ for better or 780 00:33:29,298 --> 00:33:33,000 -for worse. And -- but it's -gotten me this far, right? It's +for worse. And-- but it's gotten +me this far, right? It's 781 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:33,978 @@ -3712,87 +3714,87 @@ ways. 789 00:33:56,012 --> 00:33:59,000 -But I got -- but I spent a lot -of money on lottery tickets +But I got-- but I spent a lot of +money on lottery tickets 790 -00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,163 -[all laugh]. +00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:04,303 +[all laugh]. And went through a +lot to get here. But-- 791 -00:34:02,163 --> 00:34:04,303 -And went through a lot to get -here. But -- - -792 00:34:05,778 --> 00:34:08,237 Bekah: And it's all part of the journey, right? I mean, I- I -793 +792 00:34:08,237 --> 00:34:12,108 -certainly never -- if five and a +certainly never-- if five and a half years ago, if you would've -794 +793 00:34:12,347 --> 00:34:16,097 asked me where I expected to be, it certainly was not here. -795 +794 00:34:16,097 --> 00:34:16,728 Seth: Yeah. -796 +795 00:34:16,728 --> 00:34:19,000 Bekah: There- there was a lot that went into this journey -797 +796 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,027 and a lot of, -798 +797 00:34:20,027 --> 00:34:23,000 like, really hard things to navigate. But, you know- -799 +798 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:23,297 Seth: Yes. -800 +799 00:34:23,297 --> 00:34:26,000 Bekah: -I wouldn't take any of those hard things back because -801 +800 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,228 it shaped me -802 +801 00:34:27,228 --> 00:34:32,222 into the person I am, and I'm- I'm happy with who I am right -803 +802 00:34:32,222 --> 00:34:34,563 now. Probably more than I ever have been in my life. And- -804 +803 00:34:35,177 --> 00:34:35,418 Seth: For sure. Yep. -805 +804 00:34:35,822 --> 00:34:38,163 Bekah: -you know, all of those circumstances and all of the +805 +00:34:38,163 --> 00:34:40,292 +people that I've met — +especially in the last three + 806 -00:34:38,163 --> 00:34:42,422 -people that I've met, especially -in the last three years, have +00:34:40,292 --> 00:34:42,421 +years — have 807 00:34:42,427 --> 00:34:45,422 @@ -3816,8 +3818,8 @@ going through this, you have 811 00:34:56,123 --> 00:35:01,000 -mentioned a couple of times. The --- you had some experiences +mentioned a couple of times. +The-- you had some experiences 812 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:01,643 @@ -3849,7 +3851,7 @@ were going through these hard 818 00:35:16,168 --> 00:35:21,023 -experiences. What would you tell +experiences, what would you tell yourself to kind of give you 819 @@ -3864,7 +3866,7 @@ mean, off the top of my head 821 00:35:26,483 --> 00:35:27,983 -that +that, 822 00:35:27,983 --> 00:35:31,432 @@ -3886,7 +3888,7 @@ time, things 826 00:35:42,862 --> 00:35:45,427 -aren't personal. Right? It's +aren't personal, right? It's just ... in terms of 827 @@ -3895,13 +3897,13 @@ interviewing, 828 00:35:48,052 --> 00:35:50,213 -it's just, you wanna good fit or -you bomb the interview or +it's just, you wanna good fit, +or you bomb the interview, or 829 00:35:50,213 --> 00:35:53,753 whatever. But to, like, separate -your identity from that, and +your identity from that and 830 00:35:53,753 --> 00:35:58,222 @@ -3916,17 +3918,17 @@ you need a job, and you have a 832 00:36:00,563 --> 00:36:03,742 family and stuff. You're super -stressed about it, and- and then +stressed about it and- and then 833 00:36:03,748 --> 00:36:07,733 you gotta go do more interviews -and stuff. But- but yeah, +and stuff. But- but-- yeah, 834 00:36:07,733 --> 00:36:11,603 like, don't be hard on yourself, -like, don't -- just trust -- I +like, don't-- just trust-- I 835 00:36:11,603 --> 00:36:15,000 @@ -3949,7 +3951,7 @@ work or even my family. It's 839 00:36:24,893 --> 00:36:28,612 -just like, just do the work +just, like, just do the work that's ahead of you for the day, 840 @@ -3978,7 +3980,7 @@ in advocating for myself 845 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,632 -[chuckles], but [cough] +[chuckles], but [coughs] 846 00:36:46,913 --> 00:36:53,152 @@ -3992,8 +3994,8 @@ what you want, like, going to 848 00:36:57,742 --> 00:37:02,213 -get it. And that's not in like a -greed, like, you know, a way +get it. And that's not in, like, +a greed, like, you know, a way 849 00:37:02,213 --> 00:37:04,523 @@ -4012,13 +4014,13 @@ grace to yourself ... 100% 852 00:37:15,637 --> 00:37:19,418 -find people -- find your people +find people-- find your people who can help you, AKA 853 00:37:19,418 --> 00:37:25,000 -Virtual Coffee [chuckles]. So -yeah, I think- I think is -- +Virtual Coffee [chuckles]. So, +yeah. I think-- I think is-- 854 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:25,447 @@ -4045,7 +4047,7 @@ say, "Hey, is this a red flag?" 859 00:37:38,318 --> 00:37:39,000 -Or, you know, and if- if +Or, you know-- and if- if someone's mistreating you, 860 @@ -4054,13 +4056,13 @@ stand up for 861 00:37:40,418 --> 00:37:43,777 -yourself. I know that's not -- I +yourself. I know that's not-- I know that's easy for me to say, 862 00:37:44,197 --> 00:37:49,927 for who I am, but not everybody -can do that. But -- and I'm just +can do that. But-- and I'm just 863 00:37:49,927 --> 00:37:54,000 @@ -4073,7 +4075,7 @@ you could 865 00:37:54,697 --> 00:38:01,538 -say. So like, if- if someone's +say. So, like, if- if someone's treating me bad, I'm gonna ... 866 @@ -4087,7 +4089,7 @@ Try not to be 868 00:38:06,068 --> 00:38:10,117 -combative, but ... just believe +combative but ... just believe in myself and- and know what's 869 @@ -4097,17 +4099,17 @@ situation. But, I mean, you 870 00:38:13,722 --> 00:38:16,000 -guys know it's so hard to -- -when you're navigating +guys know it's so hard to-- when +you're navigating 871 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,878 -interviews. It- +interviews. It-- 872 00:38:18,998 --> 00:38:22,987 it's like soul sucking. It's- -it's -- it sucks. +it's-- it sucks. 873 00:38:24,577 --> 00:38:27,577 @@ -4212,7 +4214,7 @@ felt like that was really cheesy 895 00:39:15,728 --> 00:39:17,047 -Dan: Yeah. That wouldn't -- that +Dan: Yeah. That wouldn't-- that was a little rough [laughs]. 896 @@ -4226,13 +4228,13 @@ the bad metaphor. But 898 00:39:29,603 --> 00:39:31,822 -the- but the point is, kind of +the-- but the point is, kind of like what you were saying, Seth, 899 00:39:31,822 --> 00:39:36,592 -this idea of -- you don't take -it personally. And think about +this idea of-- you don't take it +personally. And think about 900 00:39:36,592 --> 00:39:40,000 @@ -4245,13 +4247,13 @@ of the hero's 902 00:39:41,333 --> 00:39:45,413 -journey, and we're all the hero +journey and we're all the hero in our own story. And- and what 903 00:39:45,443 --> 00:39:48,000 the hero goes through, right? -And the hero -- in- in the +And the hero-- in- in the 904 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,402 @@ -4383,8 +4385,8 @@ that work? 931 00:41:16,682 --> 00:41:21,302 -Seth: Sure. Yeah, I think it's --- it could be even considered +Seth: Sure. Yeah, I think it's-- +it could be even considered 932 00:41:21,572 --> 00:41:25,773 @@ -4428,7 +4430,7 @@ breaking all that s- all that 940 00:41:54,757 --> 00:41:59,000 down into tickets, communicating -all that to tech -- to -- +all that to tech-- to-- 941 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,398 @@ -4446,11 +4448,11 @@ transition there. 944 00:42:04,387 --> 00:42:08,858 And also, working with multiple -stakeholders. So- so it's very +stakeholders. So- so it's very-- 945 00:42:08,862 --> 00:42:11,500 --- it's- it's a -- it's an Agile +it's- it's a-- it's an Agile term. It could also be 946 @@ -4522,7 +4524,7 @@ feature or understand what's 960 00:42:48,202 --> 00:42:51,322 happening. I'm just not the one -doing it. And if -- and I -- but +doing it. And if-- and I-- but 961 00:42:51,322 --> 00:42:54,000 @@ -4535,7 +4537,7 @@ front-end stuff 963 00:42:54,952 --> 00:42:58,342 -where I'm like, you know, I'm +where I'm, like, you know, I'm doing all the repo stuff and 964 @@ -4592,8 +4594,8 @@ as a developer. Cuz I know, 975 00:43:29,047 --> 00:43:32,000 -image is huge. We, you know, how --- let's figure out what +image is huge. We," you know, +"how-- let's figure out what 976 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:32,648 @@ -4611,7 +4613,7 @@ then I get to talk to, like, 979 00:43:38,273 --> 00:43:41,932 -marketers and that -- that's a +marketers and that-- that's a little bit out- outside of my 980 @@ -4621,8 +4623,8 @@ person. So I can talk to them 981 00:43:45,503 --> 00:43:48,000 -and ask what they need, and -what, you know, like, "What- +and ask what they need and what, +you know, like, "What- 982 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:48,922 @@ -4635,17 +4637,17 @@ what do you need to demo?" Like, 984 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,043 -... what --," like, +... what," like, 985 00:43:52,043 --> 00:43:54,713 the first thing I did when I got -to this job was I talked to -- +to this job was I talked to-- 986 00:43:54,713 --> 00:43:58,000 -like, I had like 20 meetings or -something in, like, in no +like, I had, like, 20 meetings +or something in, like, in no 987 00:43:58,000 --> 00:43:59,077 @@ -4658,7 +4660,7 @@ about what are the pain points 989 00:44:01,208 --> 00:44:04,088 -of- of the current demo -- the +of- of the current demo-- the current demo ecosystem. Like, 990 @@ -4683,7 +4685,7 @@ wanna see?" And- and what it 994 00:44:15,398 --> 00:44:16,388 ended up being was, like, "Well, -we got like three or four +we got, like, three or four 995 00:44:16,388 --> 00:44:17,378 @@ -4706,7 +4708,7 @@ you know? So- so I get 999 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:31,777 -to -- and- +to-- and- 1000 00:44:31,782 --> 00:44:34,000 @@ -4738,7 +4740,7 @@ me for stuff, and I'm saying, 1006 00:44:42,833 --> 00:44:46,103 can or can't do that this -sprint," or, "Okay, cool. I'll +sprint." Or, "Okay, cool. I'll 1007 00:44:46,103 --> 00:44:47,527 @@ -4752,15 +4754,15 @@ saying, 1009 00:44:48,952 --> 00:44:51,000 "Hey, we need to do this." And -he goes, "Okay, cool. We'll +he goes, "Okay, cool. We'll-- 1010 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:51,742 --- I'll- +I'll- 1011 00:44:51,802 --> 00:44:55,373 -I'll work up the techs of -- the +I'll work up the techs of-- the tech side of that." And we'll- 1012 @@ -4784,763 +4786,763 @@ like, 1016 00:45:00,802 --> 00:45:02,700 "Okay, that's what I wanted. -That's what we- what we need," +That's what we-- what we need." 1017 00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:03,777 -and -- or +And-- or 1018 -00:45:03,777 --> 00:45:07,407 -I'll say, "Hey, this responsive, -you know, layout is wrong," or, +00:45:03,777 --> 00:45:05,592 +I'll say, "Hey, this +responsive," you know, "layout 1019 -00:45:07,648 --> 00:45:10,858 -"Hey, you know, we need to do -this different." And so, I like +00:45:05,592 --> 00:45:07,407 +is wrong." Or, 1020 +00:45:07,648 --> 00:45:10,858 +"Hey," you know, "we need to do +this different." And so I like + +1021 00:45:10,862 --> 00:45:13,500 -the idea -- or I like the -- my- +the idea-- or I like the-- my- my job in the sense that I -1021 +1022 00:45:13,500 --> 00:45:14,097 get to talk -1022 +1023 00:45:14,097 --> 00:45:16,557 to all these different people, right? When I was a front-end -1023 +1024 00:45:16,557 --> 00:45:18,222 developer, it was me, by myself, banging my head against the -1024 +1025 00:45:18,222 --> 00:45:19,887 wall, -1025 +1026 00:45:20,097 --> 00:45:22,000 reading tutorials [laughs]. And, -you know, then I would- +you know, then I would-- -1026 +1027 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,117 then I would p-ping -1027 +1028 00:45:24,117 --> 00:45:27,027 Virtual Coffee people and have, you know, different co-working -1028 +1029 00:45:27,027 --> 00:45:30,728 sessions and stuff. But most of -the time it was me, by myself. +the time, it was me, by myself. -1029 +1030 00:45:30,757 --> 00:45:34,027 And so I love that part of it. I love that I get to ... -1030 +1031 00:45:34,027 --> 00:45:37,297 understand -1031 +1032 00:45:37,327 --> 00:45:38,902 -these big features, and +these big features and understand how to make them -1032 +1033 00:45:38,902 --> 00:45:40,477 -happen, but I +happen but I -1033 +1034 00:45:40,478 --> 00:45:45,608 don't have to be the one coding it. I really like that. And -1034 +1035 00:45:45,612 --> 00:45:47,259 -that's just because it was, like -I said before, it was -- it +that's just because it was — +like I said before — it was-- it -1035 +1036 00:45:47,259 --> 00:45:48,906 could -1036 +1037 00:45:48,907 --> 00:45:51,187 be super difficult to solve these technical problems. And I -1037 +1038 00:45:51,187 --> 00:45:53,467 like -1038 +1039 00:45:53,467 --> 00:45:58,057 being the one who's guiding it, encouraging, getting people -1039 +1040 00:45:58,057 --> 00:46:03,623 stoked, updating our progress, you know? Knowing what they -1040 +1041 00:46:03,623 --> 00:46:05,000 accomplished, like, "Man, you guys did a- a really hard -1041 +1042 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,413 feature. Good -1042 +1043 00:46:06,413 --> 00:46:08,333 job," you know? And- and- and the way I communicate my tickets -1043 +1044 00:46:08,333 --> 00:46:10,253 to -1044 +1045 00:46:10,253 --> 00:46:11,692 them, my get up issues to them, they know that I know that -1045 +1046 00:46:11,692 --> 00:46:13,131 stuff. -1046 +1047 00:46:13,822 --> 00:46:15,802 You know what I mean? Cuz I'm -able to be like, "Hey, can you- +able to be like, "Hey, can you-- -1047 +1048 00:46:16,193 --> 00:46:18,983 can you change this Tailwind class to so and so, instead of -1048 +1049 00:46:18,983 --> 00:46:21,000 so and so, because the whatever," you know? So it's -1049 +1050 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,000 -like I'm getting this -- +like I'm getting this-- -1050 +1051 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:26,693 to be developer adjacent. And so- so a product owner really -1051 +1052 00:46:26,697 --> 00:46:31,000 just sees the product from ... it- it- it takes everything in, -1052 +1053 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:32,213 it plans the -1053 +1054 00:46:32,213 --> 00:46:35,902 whole thing out, and then it, like, releases stuff out to the -1054 +1055 00:46:35,902 --> 00:46:39,563 client. And then it takes feedback, puts that into the -1055 +1056 00:46:39,623 --> 00:46:42,152 roadmap, and keeps the cycle going. -1056 +1057 00:46:43,867 --> 00:46:46,838 Bekah: Yeah. I really love that. Because, well, for a number of -1057 +1058 00:46:46,842 --> 00:46:49,807 reasons. But there are so many people that are coming into tech -1058 +1059 00:46:49,807 --> 00:46:52,000 right now that it's oversaturated with people -1059 +1060 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:53,407 looking for junior -1060 +1061 00:46:53,407 --> 00:46:58,027 positions. But what you've done is you've leveraged all of your -1061 +1062 00:46:58,398 --> 00:47:00,875 non-technical skills or -non-coding skills, and +non-coding skills and -1062 +1063 00:47:00,875 --> 00:47:03,352 transferred -1063 +1064 00:47:03,652 --> 00:47:08,242 them over into a job that makes you really good at that job. -1064 +1065 00:47:08,242 --> 00:47:12,563 And so I think that, you know, sometimes people are developers, -1065 +1066 00:47:12,568 --> 00:47:16,463 and- and they move over into different positions that are -1066 +1067 00:47:16,702 --> 00:47:17,000 -management and- +management, and- -1067 +1068 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:18,000 Seth: Mm-hmm. -1068 +1069 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,813 Bekah: -maybe they're not well suited for those. They're -1069 +1070 00:47:20,813 --> 00:47:21,000 really good- -1070 +1071 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:21,200 Seth: Mm-hmm. -1071 +1072 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,983 Bekah: -at being a developer. -But also, it's -- that's not the +But also, it's-- that's not the -1072 +1073 00:47:24,983 --> 00:47:29,003 only job that you can have. If you've gone to a bootcamp or if -1073 +1074 00:47:29,003 --> 00:47:31,913 you've taught yourself how to code or if you have a CS degree, -1074 +1075 00:47:31,913 --> 00:47:36,052 whatever, you know, there are these tech adjacent jobs that -1075 +1076 00:47:36,052 --> 00:47:40,432 require you to have this -knowledge and understanding, but +knowledge and understanding but -1076 +1077 00:47:40,438 --> 00:47:45,983 also, give you space to bring all of the past history that you -1077 +1078 00:47:45,983 --> 00:47:46,000 have doing- -1078 +1079 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:46,200 Seth: Mm-hmm. -1079 +1080 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:51,000 -Bekah: -production -- producing -stuff, and make you really -- +Bekah: -production-- producing +stuff, and make you really-- -1080 +1081 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:52,487 give you the -1081 +1082 00:47:52,487 --> 00:47:55,577 ability to really excel at what -you're doing. And I think that +you're doing. And I think that-- -1082 +1083 00:47:55,788 --> 00:47:59,000 --- I'm glad that you're here +I'm glad that you're here talking about that. Because I -1083 +1084 00:47:59,000 --> 00:47:59,387 -think that -- +think that-- -1084 +1085 00:47:59,807 --> 00:48:02,208 it would be great to have more people talking about that. And- -1085 +1086 00:48:02,208 --> 00:48:02,408 Seth: Mm-hmm. -1086 +1087 00:48:02,208 --> 00:48:05,300 Bekah: -getting more people in positions like you are in -1087 +1088 00:48:05,300 --> 00:48:06,858 enabling those -1088 +1089 00:48:06,862 --> 00:48:11,568 intimate collaborations to happen. So more people feel -1089 +1090 00:48:11,568 --> 00:48:13,098 supported in tech because we also hear so many stories at -1090 +1091 00:48:13,098 --> 00:48:14,628 Virtual -1091 +1092 00:48:14,628 --> 00:48:17,177 Coffee of people who are in terrible jobs [chuckles]. -1092 +1093 00:48:17,813 --> 00:48:18,413 Seth: Yes. -1093 +1094 00:48:19,367 --> 00:48:23,858 -Bekah: And this- this -- having +Bekah: And this- this-- having more people doing what you're -1094 +1095 00:48:23,858 --> 00:48:29,347 doing, I think, helps to create -tech -- create a much more +tech-- create a much more -1095 +1096 00:48:29,347 --> 00:48:30,668 welcoming tech community. -1096 +1097 00:48:31,793 --> 00:48:34,000 Seth: Yeah. I-I-I appreciate you saying that. I mean, like- -1097 +1098 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:34,672 li-like I -1098 +1099 00:48:34,672 --> 00:48:36,022 -said, it's -- I mean, really, by -the- by the grace of God, +said, it's-- I mean, really, by +the-- by the grace of God, -1099 +1100 00:48:36,022 --> 00:48:37,372 honestly, -1100 +1101 00:48:37,378 --> 00:48:40,000 that it even happened. Cuz I -wasn't -- while I was interested +wasn't-- while I was interested -1101 +1102 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:40,943 in it and -1102 +1103 00:48:40,943 --> 00:48:44,600 -I was- I was ... I- I could say +I was-- I was ... I- I could say that would be cool to do. -1103 +1104 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:45,202 I didn't -1104 +1105 00:48:45,202 --> 00:48:47,543 really plan it. It just kinda -happened. And at first I was +happened. And at first, I was -1105 +1106 00:48:47,543 --> 00:48:50,302 like, "What do you mean I'm not gonna be coding out this stuff? -1106 +1107 00:48:50,302 --> 00:48:52,762 I thought you hired me as an -engineer." And it just -- it was +engineer." And it just-- it was -1107 +1108 00:48:52,762 --> 00:48:55,500 just a classic start-up, "Well, -now we now -- we need this. +now we-- now we need this. -1108 +1109 00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:56,512 And we have -1109 +1110 00:48:56,518 --> 00:48:59,592 a marketing engineering team, which handles the website, our -1110 +1111 00:48:59,592 --> 00:49:05,000 integrations handles demos, so -we want you to just -- we --," +we want you to just-- we," -1111 +1112 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:05,992 like, what -1112 +1113 00:49:05,998 --> 00:49:07,555 -they said -- this one thing they -said to me, they said, you know, +they said-- this one thing they +said to me. They said, you know, -1113 +1114 00:49:07,555 --> 00:49:09,112 "The -1114 +1115 00:49:09,202 --> 00:49:12,713 technical skills you have, a lot of people have. But not many -1115 +1116 00:49:12,713 --> 00:49:14,737 people have the other skills you have." And I was like, -1116 +1117 00:49:14,737 --> 00:49:16,761 "Awesome." -1117 +1118 00:49:16,853 --> 00:49:20,512 Like, that's- that's why I believe in developing those kind -1118 +1119 00:49:20,512 --> 00:49:25,000 of skills. I call 'em relational -skills. But in- in this -- I +skills. But in- in this-- I -1119 +1120 00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:25,492 find it a -1120 +1121 00:49:25,492 --> 00:49:28,492 little bit easier to develop relational skills than tech -1121 +1122 00:49:28,492 --> 00:49:32,000 skills sometimes. And I also find it more natural to have- -1122 +1123 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:32,483 -have -- to be +have-- to be -1123 +1124 00:49:32,483 --> 00:49:37,538 organizational. Seeing the big picture planning. But I happen -1124 +1125 00:49:37,538 --> 00:49:40,867 to have a tech background. So it helps me understand how to talk -1125 +1126 00:49:40,867 --> 00:49:45,757 to designers, and developers, -and stuff. So, yeah. I just feel +and stuff. So-- yeah. I just -1126 +1127 00:49:45,757 --> 00:49:47,962 -like -- I -- like, after all -these years of like wandering +feel like-- I-- like, after all +these years of, like, wandering -1127 +1128 00:49:47,962 --> 00:49:50,167 -around, +around -1128 +1129 00:49:50,168 --> 00:49:51,817 -and trying to figure it out, and -like, sacrificing, and not +and trying to figure it out, +and, like, sacrificing and not -1129 +1130 00:49:51,817 --> 00:49:53,466 giving -1130 +1131 00:49:53,472 --> 00:49:55,719 -up, and like, just pushing, +up, and, like, just pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing, I'm- -1131 +1132 00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:57,966 I'm in the -1132 +1133 00:49:57,967 --> 00:50:01,387 most comfortable place I've been -in the -- and I'm -- I feel the +in the-- and I'm-- I feel the -1133 +1134 00:50:01,387 --> 00:50:08,018 happiest I've been in my career. Maybe ever. And so that's -1134 +1135 00:50:08,018 --> 00:50:11,257 just such a blessing. I'm very thankful for that. And I really -1135 +1136 00:50:11,347 --> 00:50:13,000 don't know how much control I had over it. I think it just -1136 +1137 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,068 ... I- I -1137 +1138 00:50:15,072 --> 00:50:18,097 don't know. You could say, you -know, that -- well, if you put +know, that-- well, if you put -1138 +1139 00:50:18,097 --> 00:50:20,137 yourself out there, things will happen or whatever. There's a -1139 +1140 00:50:20,137 --> 00:50:22,148 -lot of philosophies you could -- +lot of philosophies you could-- and beliefs you could say. But -1140 +1141 00:50:22,152 --> 00:50:25,327 -really, to me, it's just- it's +really, to me, it's just-- it's just a natural progression that- -1141 +1142 00:50:25,333 --> 00:50:29,257 that happened. And I was able to -see what it was, and go, +see what it was and go, -1142 +1143 00:50:29,288 --> 00:50:32,000 -"Ah, yes. This is it. This is- +"Ah, yes. This is it. This is-- this is it. This is it for me." -1143 +1144 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:33,998 And I feel -1144 +1145 00:50:33,998 --> 00:50:36,967 -like I'm thriving. And I've -- +like I'm thriving. And I've-- and like I said before, I feel -1145 +1146 00:50:36,967 --> 00:50:42,248 valued. I feel empowered because of my company. Because I'm -1146 +1147 00:50:42,248 --> 00:50:46,000 -in- I'm in a more comfort zone. +in-- I'm in a more comfort zone. Where before, in -1147 +1148 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:46,947 front-end development, -1148 +1149 00:50:46,947 --> 00:50:49,108 there were often times I was out of my comfort zone. -1149 +1150 00:50:50,135 --> 00:50:51,275 Bekah: Yeah, I love that. -1150 +1151 00:50:52,375 --> 00:50:54,000 -Dan: Yeah. So that -- I mean, I +Dan: Yeah. So that-- I mean, I pretty much just wanna wrap -1151 +1152 00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:55,014 up here, I -1152 +1153 00:50:55,014 --> 00:50:57,864 think. I think this seemed like a good place to stop in general. -1153 +1154 00:50:57,894 --> 00:51:01,434 I- I mean, I personally really appreciated hearing your -1154 +1155 00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:03,582 -story. I -- and I- I liked about +story. I-- and I- I liked about hearing about product owners -1155 +1156 00:51:03,582 --> 00:51:05,724 and, -1156 +1157 00:51:05,724 --> 00:51:08,184 you know, I- I love this idea of the producer, like, the creative -1157 +1158 00:51:08,184 --> 00:51:09,000 producer and- -1158 +1159 00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:09,200 Seth: Mm. -1159 +1160 00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,699 Dan: -applying it to- to tech. I -think it's- I think it's +think it's-- I think it's -1160 +1161 00:51:12,699 --> 00:51:13,000 a fantastic approach. And- -1161 +1162 00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:13,200 Seth: Yeah. -1162 +1163 00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,190 Dan: -probably plenty- plenty -1163 +1164 00:51:15,190 --> 00:51:18,369 of people are doing it and not using that name, you -1164 +1165 00:51:18,369 --> 00:51:18,760 -know, or not using -- +know, or not using-- -1165 +1166 00:51:18,789 --> 00:51:19,750 Seth: Exactly. Yeah. -1166 +1167 00:51:20,349 --> 00:51:24,489 Dan: You know, I- I think that- that your instincts behind -1167 +1168 00:51:24,489 --> 00:51:26,980 -doing all that is -- are really +doing all that is-- are really spot on. And I think you're -1168 +1169 00:51:26,980 --> 00:51:28,869 gonna be really valuable. -1169 +1170 00:51:29,590 --> 00:51:30,849 Seth: Yeah. I appreciate that, man. -1170 +1171 00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:32,884 Dan: I- I think it's really -cool. And I think it's a- I +cool. And I think it's a-- I -1171 +1172 00:51:32,884 --> 00:51:34,578 think -1172 +1173 00:51:34,579 --> 00:51:37,700 it's a very cool skill set and ... I don't know if you wanna -1173 +1174 00:51:37,700 --> 00:51:38,090 call it -1174 +1175 00:51:38,090 --> 00:51:40,500 -talent or whatever, but like +talent or whatever but, like [chuckles], just a valuable -1175 +1176 00:51:40,500 --> 00:51:41,599 thing for- for -1176 +1177 00:51:41,599 --> 00:51:43,909 any company, you know what I mean? Anybody that's producing -1177 +1178 00:51:44,179 --> 00:51:45,590 software to have somebody like that, you know? -1178 -00:51:46,445 --> 00:51:47,900 -Seth: Yeah. Well, I mean, it's --- it takes so much to do - 1179 -00:51:47,900 --> 00:51:49,355 -anything, +00:51:46,445 --> 00:51:49,355 +Seth: Yeah. Well, I mean, it's-- +it takes so much to do anything, 1180 00:51:49,355 --> 00:51:52,684 @@ -5550,7 +5552,7 @@ It's- it's a lot to wrangle 1181 00:51:52,775 --> 00:51:56,434 together and it's a lot to think -about. And it -- so it helps to +about. And it-- so it helps to 1182 00:51:56,434 --> 00:51:59,315 @@ -5559,8 +5561,8 @@ different ... I guess you could 1183 00:51:59,315 --> 00:52:03,574 -say skill sets or leanings or -whatever, but -- cuz not +say skill sets, or leanings, or +whatever but-- cuz not 1184 00:52:03,574 --> 00:52:06,364 @@ -5570,7 +5572,7 @@ a great backend developer, but 1185 00:52:06,364 --> 00:52:08,000 you're gonna need backend -development. So it's just- +development. So it's just-- 1186 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:08,434 @@ -5579,7 +5581,7 @@ it's just a 1187 00:52:08,434 --> 00:52:11,500 part of the team. I- I look it --- as a team, as a whole. Just- +as a team, as a whole. Just- 1188 00:52:11,500 --> 00:52:12,125 @@ -5624,7 +5626,7 @@ the team, the collaboration, 1197 00:52:30,065 --> 00:52:33,155 -someone to bounce ideas off of, +someone to bounce ideas off of you don't feel alone, the burden 1198 @@ -5649,7 +5651,7 @@ that you wanna talk about? 1202 00:52:46,094 --> 00:52:49,655 Seth: Not really on any -projects. I mean, I just -- I +projects. I mean, I just-- I 1203 00:52:49,655 --> 00:52:54,034 @@ -5667,7 +5669,7 @@ Bekah: Mm-hmm. 1206 00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,364 Seth: -this kind of role. Like, -I was responsible for the -- +I was responsible for the-- 1207 00:52:58,909 --> 00:53:00,800 @@ -5681,12 +5683,12 @@ running a product, you know, 1209 00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:03,920 -or you -- +or you-- 1210 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:08,360 -we have users. But -- so, it's a -little bit- a little bit less +we have users. But-- so, it's a +little bit-- a little bit less 1211 00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:09,620 @@ -5710,7 +5712,7 @@ or whatever. But ... but no. 1215 00:53:16,730 --> 00:53:18,559 It's no- no particular projects. -Just, you know, I- I just -- +Just, you know, I- I just-- 1216 00:53:18,559 --> 00:53:20,388 @@ -5728,7 +5730,7 @@ transferable 1219 00:53:22,849 --> 00:53:26,000 skills I think are really -important. So anybody can -- +important. So anybody can-- 1220 00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:26,525 @@ -5742,7 +5744,7 @@ people might know or might be 1222 00:53:29,434 --> 00:53:33,695 good at they don't realize they -could apply, and- and it- +could apply and- and it- 1223 00:53:33,695 --> 00:53:33,699 @@ -5750,7 +5752,7 @@ Bekah: Yes. 1224 00:53:33,699 --> 00:53:36,000 -Seth: -could be technical, but +Seth: -could be technical but it's m- might be mostly 1225 @@ -5763,17 +5765,17 @@ Bekah: Mm-hmm. 1227 00:53:37,534 --> 00:53:39,500 -Seth: Like -- cuz you gotta -remember that we're -- what +Seth: Like-- cuz you gotta +remember that we're-- what 1228 00:53:39,500 --> 00:53:40,295 -we're doing -- +we're doing-- 1229 00:53:41,434 --> 00:53:43,339 like, people will hire you based -on your -- how you are as a +on your-- how you are as a 1230 00:53:43,339 --> 00:53:45,244 @@ -5782,20 +5784,20 @@ person. 1231 00:53:46,025 --> 00:53:47,825 More so than your technical -skills. Cuz you can teach techno +skills. Cuz you can teach 1232 00:53:47,825 --> 00:53:49,625 --- +techno-- 1233 00:53:50,074 --> 00:53:52,264 technical skills, but you can't -teach someone- teach someone to +teach someone-- teach someone to 1234 00:53:52,264 --> 00:53:54,274 -be nice or have integrity or +be nice, or have integrity, or have good character, you know? 1235 @@ -5804,12 +5806,12 @@ It's 1236 00:53:56,284 --> 00:53:59,135 -a thing you -- people setting. -So I don't know where I'm going +a thing you-- people setting. So +I don't know where I'm going 1237 00:53:59,135 --> 00:54:00,155 -with this, but -- +with this, but-- 1238 00:54:00,492 --> 00:54:01,974 @@ -5819,7 +5821,7 @@ great advice. 1239 00:54:02,559 --> 00:54:04,538 Seth: Just ... keep going -[chuckles]. As an easy- as an +[chuckles]. As an easy-- as an 1240 00:54:04,538 --> 00:54:06,517 @@ -5831,116 +5833,108 @@ you know, outro, just keep- keep going and believe in 1242 -00:54:09,009 --> 00:54:10,673 -yourself. And hopefully, you'll --- and something will -- +00:54:09,009 --> 00:54:12,337 +yourself. And hopefully, +you'll-- and something will-- 1243 -00:54:10,673 --> 00:54:12,337 -something - -1244 00:54:12,344 --> 00:54:13,059 -should pop up. +something should pop up. -1245 +1244 00:54:13,260 --> 00:54:15,179 Bekah: It's so great. Thanks so much for being here and -1246 +1245 00:54:15,179 --> 00:54:15,960 sharing your story with us, Seth. -1247 +1246 00:54:16,559 --> 00:54:17,280 Dan: Thanks, Seth. -1248 +1247 00:54:17,474 --> 00:54:19,425 Seth: Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. I always love -1249 +1248 00:54:19,425 --> 00:54:22,800 talking to y'all. So, looking -forward to another time, and +forward to another time and -1250 +1249 00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:23,610 catch y'all online. -1251 +1250 00:54:23,610 --> 00:54:24,585 Bekah: Bye. -1252 +1251 00:54:24,585 --> 00:54:25,576 Dan: Sounds good. Bye. -1253 +1252 00:54:25,860 --> 00:54:26,521 Seth: All right. See ya. -1254 +1253 00:54:30,155 --> 00:54:32,255 Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual -1255 +1254 00:54:32,255 --> 00:54:36,001 -Coffee podcast. This episode was +Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah -1256 +1255 00:54:36,001 --> 00:54:38,782 Hawrot Weigel. If you have questions or comments, you can -1257 +1256 00:54:38,782 --> 00:54:41,791 hit us up on Twitter at -VirtualCoffeeIO, or email us at +VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at -1258 +1257 00:54:41,791 --> 00:54:45,262 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up -1259 +1258 00:54:45,262 --> 00:54:47,302 for the newsletter, check out any of our other resources on -1260 +1259 00:54:47,302 --> 00:54:48,997 our website, virtualcoffee.io. If you're interested in -1261 +1260 00:54:48,997 --> 00:54:50,692 sponsoring -1262 +1261 00:54:50,692 --> 00:54:53,092 Virtual Coffee, you can find out more information on our website -1263 +1262 00:54:53,362 --> 00:54:57,802 at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. Please subscribe to our podcast -1264 +1263 00:54:57,831 --> 00:54:59,436 and be sure to leave us a review. Thanks for listening, -1265 -00:54:59,436 --> 00:55:01,041 -and we'll - -1266 -00:55:01,041 --> 00:55:01,882 -see you next week! \ No newline at end of file +1264 +00:54:59,436 --> 00:55:01,882 +and we'll see you next week! \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/episodes/6_4.srt b/episodes/6_4.srt index 3a54290..c746355 100644 --- a/episodes/6_4.srt +++ b/episodes/6_4.srt @@ -32,18 +32,18 @@ their 8 00:00:21,393 --> 00:00:24,094 -coding journey. And they're here -on this podcast, sharing their +coding journey. And they're +here, on this podcast, sharing 9 00:00:24,099 --> 00:00:26,700 -stories and what they've +their stories and what they've learned. And we're here to share 10 00:00:26,700 --> 00:00:30,814 it with you. Here with me today -is my cohost, Dan. +is my co-host, Dan. 11 00:00:31,664 --> 00:00:35,914 @@ -57,7 +57,7 @@ wonderfully [laughs]. 13 00:00:40,863 --> 00:00:45,694 -Dan: Excellent. Today we are +Dan: Excellent. Today, we are talking with Sadie Jay, who is a 14 @@ -68,7 +68,7 @@ federal agency. We talked about 15 00:00:48,993 --> 00:00:51,653 her long experience doing the -interview process, and, yeah. +interview process, and-- yeah. 16 00:00:51,653 --> 00:00:54,313 @@ -76,7 +76,7 @@ And 17 00:00:54,314 --> 00:00:56,834 -her experience working at a- at +her experience working at a-- at a government agency as well. 18 @@ -101,7 +101,7 @@ shot, and she's back doing it 22 00:01:08,278 --> 00:01:11,308 again. And it sounds like she's -really excited. But also like, +really excited. But also, like, 23 00:01:11,563 --> 00:01:14,444 @@ -125,7 +125,7 @@ people. 27 00:01:23,364 --> 00:01:25,700 -Dan: Yeah, totally. I -- it was- +Dan: Yeah, totally. I-- it was-- it was interesting hearing her 28 @@ -145,7 +145,7 @@ dealing with it head on. I 31 00:01:38,114 --> 00:01:39,700 -think it was- it was really +think it was-- it was really cool. And I think there's a lot 32 @@ -173,610 +173,610 @@ question. And we hope you enjoy this episode. Hi, I'm Bekah. I 37 -00:02:03,500 --> 00:02:07,254 +00:02:03,500 --> 00:02:10,299 am a technical community builder from a small town in Ohio. And 38 -00:02:07,254 --> 00:02:10,299 -an - -39 00:02:10,304 --> 00:02:13,166 -imaginary class that I wish was -offered. I feel like this is +an imaginary class that I wish +was offered-- I feel like this -40 +39 00:02:13,166 --> 00:02:16,028 -hard +is hard -41 +40 00:02:16,028 --> 00:02:21,748 because I'm not sure what would be practical for an imaginary -42 +41 00:02:21,748 --> 00:02:25,483 class [chuckles]. And, maybe, imaginary classes aren't -43 +42 00:02:25,483 --> 00:02:29,218 practical? -44 +43 00:02:29,473 --> 00:02:31,800 Dan: Did the imaginary class teach imaginary things? Or is -45 +44 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:33,193 this like a chance to learn, you -know? +know-- -46 +45 00:02:33,868 --> 00:02:35,100 Bekah: Oh, for sure. It can teach- -47 +46 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:35,500 Dan: Magic or whatever? Mm. -48 +47 00:02:35,100 --> 00:02:39,299 Bekah: -imaginary things. Yeah. I think I -49 +48 00:02:39,299 --> 00:02:47,618 would like to definitely take a class that watches people -50 +49 00:02:48,019 --> 00:02:54,633 have brain scans. And that's not an imaginary class. I'm kind of -51 +50 00:02:54,633 --> 00:02:57,378 like neurobiology class. But there's [laughs] gotta be some -52 +51 00:02:57,378 --> 00:03:00,123 kind of -53 +52 00:03:00,574 --> 00:03:06,041 imaginary aspect to brain scans and ... people. I'm really bad -54 +53 00:03:06,041 --> 00:03:11,508 at this -55 +54 00:03:11,508 --> 00:03:13,503 question [Dan laughs]. I was the one that chose it too. So I'd -56 +55 00:03:13,503 --> 00:03:15,498 just, like, -57 +56 00:03:15,498 --> 00:03:19,218 -makes it worse. I'm just gonna -like look at people's +makes it worse. I'm just gonna, +like, look at people's -58 +57 00:03:19,218 --> 00:03:24,408 brains and see what they do. That's it. It's not imaginary. -59 +58 00:03:25,068 --> 00:03:26,658 It's wishful. That's what I wish. -60 +59 00:03:26,658 --> 00:03:27,000 -Dan: Is this what -- +Dan: Is this what-- -61 +60 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:28,248 Bekah: I wish to watch people's brains. -62 +61 00:03:28,429 --> 00:03:31,739 Dan: Less of a class and more of a profession you wish you had? -63 +62 00:03:32,998 --> 00:03:35,108 Bekah: [Laughs] Yes, I would love to be a neurobiologist. -64 +63 00:03:35,108 --> 00:03:37,218 That would be -65 +64 00:03:38,088 --> 00:03:40,038 fantastic. What? Okay. Maybe an imaginary class on, like, -66 +65 00:03:40,038 --> 00:03:41,988 studying -67 +66 00:03:41,989 --> 00:03:45,408 black holes by, like, actually physically exploring them. Cuz -68 +67 00:03:45,408 --> 00:03:46,800 that's not possible. -69 +68 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:47,200 Dan: Mm. -70 +69 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,568 Bekah: So, is that better? -71 +70 00:03:51,389 --> 00:03:52,734 Dan: I don't know [laughs]. I don't know what to do with this -72 +71 00:03:52,734 --> 00:03:54,079 question. -73 +72 00:03:54,408 --> 00:03:59,239 Hi, I'm Dan. I do computer development things in -74 +73 00:03:59,243 --> 00:04:03,378 -Cleveland. And, yeah. Imaginary -class. I have no -- I +Cleveland. And-- yeah. Imaginary +class. I have no-- I -75 +74 00:04:03,378 --> 00:04:05,823 mean, I don't really understand this question [all laugh] to -76 +75 00:04:05,823 --> 00:04:08,268 tell you the truth. -77 +76 00:04:08,269 --> 00:04:14,239 I- I don't know. I guess I'm gonna go with ... like, -78 +77 00:04:14,269 --> 00:04:18,700 spaceship flying? Yeah. But, like, not the boring ones that -79 +78 00:04:18,700 --> 00:04:21,319 we have in the reality though, you know? Or like "Star Wars". -80 +79 00:04:21,468 --> 00:04:22,038 Bekah: "Star Wars" spaceship flying? -81 +80 00:04:22,278 --> 00:04:23,538 -Dan: Like -- yeah, yeah. Like +Dan: Like-- yeah, yeah. Like, teach me how to fly the- -82 +81 00:04:23,543 --> 00:04:24,918 Bekah: That's a good imaginary class. -83 +82 00:04:24,918 --> 00:04:26,569 Dan: -the Millennium Falcon or something, you know? That'd be -84 +83 00:04:26,569 --> 00:04:26,778 cool. -85 +84 00:04:27,559 --> 00:04:28,218 Bekah: Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah. -86 +85 00:04:28,249 --> 00:04:29,703 Dan: As long as I actually got to fly it. Yeah. Yeah. All -87 +86 00:04:29,703 --> 00:04:31,728 right. That's gonna be my answer [laughs]. -88 +87 00:04:33,423 --> 00:04:38,014 Sadie Jay: Okay. Hi, I'm Sadie. I'm from a small town in the -89 +88 00:04:38,014 --> 00:04:40,264 Panhandle, Florida. I am a front-end developer for a -90 +89 00:04:40,264 --> 00:04:42,514 federal -91 +90 00:04:42,514 --> 00:04:49,774 agency. And ... an- an imaginary -class. I think I would take -- I +class. I think I would take-- I -92 +91 00:04:49,774 --> 00:04:52,863 -don't know. I -- this makes me -think of like when I was in +don't know. I-- this makes me +think of, like, when I was in -93 +92 00:04:52,863 --> 00:04:55,053 -elementary school and like, -super obsessed with, like, ESP +elementary school, and, like, +super obsessed with, like, ESP, -94 +93 00:04:55,053 --> 00:04:57,243 -and like, +and, like, -95 +94 00:04:57,274 --> 00:05:01,744 -being psychic and things like +being psychic, and things like that. So I would probably pick -96 +95 00:05:01,744 --> 00:05:02,703 some class that develops, like, your psychic abilities. I don't -97 +96 00:05:02,703 --> 00:05:03,662 know [laughs]. Yeah. -98 +97 00:05:06,139 --> 00:05:06,319 Bekah: I think- -99 +98 00:05:06,408 --> 00:05:06,619 Dan: I like that. -100 +99 00:05:06,858 --> 00:05:09,798 -Bekah: -that is a good -- an +Bekah: -that is a good-- an excellent answer. You have -101 +100 00:05:09,803 --> 00:05:13,769 definitely won this round of intro questions [laughs]. -102 +101 00:05:13,769 --> 00:05:16,000 Sadie: [Laughs] Thank you. -103 +102 00:05:17,028 --> 00:05:19,428 Dan: Yeah. My first answer was -gonna be like, learn, you know, +gonna be, like, learn, you know, -104 +103 00:05:19,428 --> 00:05:20,569 learn the Force, you know? -105 +104 00:05:20,569 --> 00:05:21,163 Sadie: Ooh. -106 +105 00:05:21,163 --> 00:05:23,000 Bekah: Mm. That's a good one. -107 +106 00:05:21,809 --> 00:05:24,319 Dan: Then I was thinking about -spaceships would be fun too, so +spaceships would be fun too, -108 +107 00:05:24,439 --> 00:05:27,300 --- and a little more practical. -I was worried that -- I think +so-- and a little more +practical. I was worried that-- -109 +108 00:05:27,300 --> 00:05:28,500 -that, canonically- +I think that, canonically- -110 +109 00:05:28,500 --> 00:05:28,700 -Bekah: How will you -- +Bekah: How will you-- -111 +110 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,778 Dan: -you have to, like, have -the -- be able to use +the-- be able to use -112 +111 00:05:32,778 --> 00:05:33,789 -the Force to learn -- like in -the net -- it's not like +the Force to learn-- like, in +the net-- it's not like -113 +112 00:05:33,789 --> 00:05:35,119 everybody can learn it, -114 +113 00:05:35,119 --> 00:05:37,500 you know? It would be a bummer to sign up for that class, and -115 +114 00:05:37,500 --> 00:05:39,000 make it there, and then you find out you- -116 +115 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:40,000 Sadie: Can't work it. You aren't eligible [laughs]. -117 +116 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,033 -Dan: -can't- can't -- right. -Like [laughs] -- +Dan: -can't- can't-- right. Like +[laughs]-- -118 +117 00:05:43,033 --> 00:05:45,064 Bekah: You can watch everybody else use the Force, but you're -119 +118 00:05:45,064 --> 00:05:45,334 stuck. -120 +119 00:05:45,889 --> 00:05:46,000 Dan: Right. Right, right. -121 +120 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:47,000 Sadie: You miss the [unintelligible] [laughs]. -122 +121 00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:48,468 Dan: It's not like everybody can -use a -- +use a-- -123 +122 00:05:48,468 --> 00:05:51,108 -everybody could use a- a -- or +everybody could use a- a-- or learn how to fly spaceships. -124 +123 00:05:51,649 --> 00:05:52,894 Bekah: I feel like I wanna class on communicating with -125 +124 00:05:52,894 --> 00:05:54,139 aliens, but -126 +125 00:05:54,139 --> 00:05:55,894 I feel like DARPA already has -that or something like -- it's +that or something like-- it's -127 +126 00:05:55,894 --> 00:05:57,649 out -128 +127 00:05:57,649 --> 00:06:00,215 there. We just don't know about it yet [laughs]. Well, welcome -129 +128 00:06:00,215 --> 00:06:02,781 Sadie. -130 +129 00:06:02,901 --> 00:06:06,122 Thanks for being here with us today. We're very, very excited -131 +130 00:06:06,201 --> 00:06:10,041 to have you. And we always like to start off with your tech -132 +131 00:06:10,072 --> 00:06:11,917 origin stories. So how did you get to this point in your tech -133 +132 00:06:11,917 --> 00:06:13,762 journey? -134 +133 00:06:15,487 --> 00:06:18,501 Sadie: Ooh, wow. Yeah. That's ... a good question. I- I feel -135 +134 00:06:18,501 --> 00:06:21,515 like it -136 +135 00:06:21,516 --> 00:06:25,956 was a winding journey, for sure. Like, I- I didn't really grow -137 +136 00:06:25,956 --> 00:06:32,137 up with a desire to be in tech. Like, my household computer -138 +137 00:06:32,141 --> 00:06:35,406 was just the computer that let me get on cartoonnetwork.com and -139 +138 00:06:35,411 --> 00:06:38,604 play games [laughs]. Like, it wasn't much past that. But I -140 +139 00:06:38,604 --> 00:06:41,797 would say, -141 +140 00:06:42,726 --> 00:06:48,276 right after I graduated with my bachelor's degree in -142 +141 00:06:48,276 --> 00:06:53,932 psychology, I got into drawing -and painting. Like -- and this +and painting. Like-- and this -143 +142 00:06:53,932 --> 00:06:55,522 -was just like a random desire +was just, like, a random desire that I had. I was like, "Ah, I -144 +143 00:06:55,522 --> 00:06:57,112 just wanna -145 +144 00:06:57,112 --> 00:06:59,751 learn painting. I'm just gonna take a class." So I did it -146 +145 00:06:59,751 --> 00:07:02,390 [chuckles]. And, like, -147 +146 00:07:02,396 --> 00:07:04,854 fell in love. And from that, I wanted to, like, find a career -148 +147 00:07:04,854 --> 00:07:07,312 that -149 +148 00:07:07,317 --> 00:07:11,700 let me combine psychology and, like, drawing or visual arts. So -150 +149 00:07:11,700 --> 00:07:14,046 I was like, "Okay, maybe web design, somehow? Cuz that would -151 +150 00:07:15,951 --> 00:07:19,700 also let me work remotely and give me some flexibility." So, -152 +151 00:07:19,700 --> 00:07:21,191 I went to a bootcamp. -153 +152 00:07:21,997 --> 00:07:25,927 I went to Skillcrush and signed up for one of their -154 +153 00:07:25,927 --> 00:07:27,441 courses. It was like a web design course or visual design -155 +154 00:07:27,441 --> 00:07:28,955 course. -156 +155 00:07:29,016 --> 00:07:32,601 -This was back in like 2017 ... +This was back in, like, 2017 ... like, several years ago. But I -157 +156 00:07:32,601 --> 00:07:36,186 wanted -158 +157 00:07:36,187 --> 00:07:37,432 to, like, test out the waters to see if that was something I -159 +158 00:07:37,432 --> 00:07:38,677 would -160 +159 00:07:38,682 --> 00:07:41,409 be interested in. And, like, it- it seemed good enough. Like, I- -161 +160 00:07:41,409 --> 00:07:44,136 I -162 +161 00:07:44,137 --> 00:07:47,317 felt like I could do it. So then -I signed up for my master -- my +I signed up for my master-- my -163 +162 00:07:47,466 --> 00:07:52,101 master's, specializing in web design and online communication. -164 +163 00:07:52,732 --> 00:07:57,081 And in that program, like, we did both web design and also web +164 +00:07:57,081 --> 00:07:59,076 +development. And I realized +that, like, actually web + 165 -00:07:57,081 --> 00:08:01,072 -development. And I realized that -like, actually web development +00:07:59,076 --> 00:08:01,071 +development 166 00:08:01,076 --> 00:08:03,983 was more my thing and not so -much the web design. So, yeah. +much the web design. So-- yeah. 167 00:08:03,983 --> 00:08:06,890 @@ -784,13 +784,13 @@ So, 168 00:08:07,461 --> 00:08:11,122 -that was like the really -- the +that was, like, the really-- the kickoff to my tech journey, for 169 00:08:11,122 --> 00:08:13,236 -sure. But after I graduated, I --- there was another pivot. +sure. But after I graduated, I-- +there was another pivot. 170 00:08:13,236 --> 00:08:15,350 @@ -822,8 +822,8 @@ was. So I was like, "Oh, wow. I 176 00:08:32,741 --> 00:08:34,089 -just graduated with this -degree," and like, "I can't even +just graduated with this degree +and, like, I can't even 177 00:08:34,089 --> 00:08:35,437 @@ -831,12 +831,12 @@ use it." 178 00:08:35,706 --> 00:08:37,956 -Like, I don't know what [laughs] --- like, how to do this thing +Like, I don't know what +[laughs]-- like, how to do this 179 00:08:37,956 --> 00:08:40,206 -with JavaScript +thing with JavaScript 180 00:08:40,206 --> 00:08:42,156 @@ -904,7 +904,7 @@ being 194 00:09:13,086 --> 00:09:16,267 in Brooklyn for a few years. And -I really thought, I was like, +I really thought-- I was like, 195 00:09:16,267 --> 00:09:18,381 @@ -917,12 +917,12 @@ here, 197 00:09:20,826 --> 00:09:23,736 -like Florida, which is home for +like, Florida, which is home for me. Like, I don't wanna be here 198 00:09:23,741 --> 00:09:25,509 -forever, but I do wanna take the +forever but I do wanna take the time to, like, make sure that, 199 @@ -951,7 +951,7 @@ like, take over. I don't know. I 204 00:09:45,547 --> 00:09:48,982 guess, like, my direction or -just like ... I dunno, just had +just, like ... I dunno, just had 205 00:09:48,982 --> 00:09:52,417 @@ -994,7 +994,7 @@ very intentional about joining 213 00:10:15,892 --> 00:10:17,767 community, like, being very -active in Virtual Coffee, and I +active in Virtual Coffee and I 214 00:10:17,767 --> 00:10:19,642 @@ -1008,7 +1008,7 @@ it would just so happen that 216 00:10:24,221 --> 00:10:28,096 the kickoff for the -Hacktoberfest month was like a +Hacktoberfest month was, like, a 217 00:10:28,096 --> 00:10:31,971 @@ -1021,13 +1021,13 @@ Virtual Coffee, and I got to sit 219 00:10:34,807 --> 00:10:38,000 -in, and watched Dan do the -- +in, and watched Dan do the-- like, how to contribute to open 220 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,000 -source. And, yeah. So it- it all -just went from there. +source. And-- yeah. So it- it +all just went from there. 221 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:41,000 @@ -1040,8 +1040,8 @@ ended 223 00:10:44,376 --> 00:10:46,011 -up like contributing to, like, -five projects, and like, I +up, like, contributing to, like, +five projects and, like, I 224 00:10:46,011 --> 00:10:47,646 @@ -1055,12 +1055,12 @@ got to do a demo day with them. 226 00:10:51,496 --> 00:10:58,537 And then, started the job search -or -- in, like, February? And +or-- in, like, February? And 227 00:10:58,956 --> 00:11:02,000 that was another beast of its -own where it took like nine +own where it took, like, nine 228 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,797 @@ -1074,12 +1074,12 @@ how I got here. Yeah [laughs]. 230 00:11:13,500 --> 00:11:14,000 -Dan: I mean, that -- +Dan: I mean, that-- 231 00:11:13,802 --> 00:11:17,692 Bekah: That's awesome. I love -that story. I -- there's just -- +that story. I-- there's just-- 232 00:11:18,412 --> 00:11:24,000 @@ -1098,7 +1098,7 @@ Sadie: Absolutely. 235 00:11:28,312 --> 00:11:29,857 Bekah: You've done a lot of -different things, but also, +different things but also, 236 00:11:29,857 --> 00:11:31,402 @@ -1156,4351 +1156,4386 @@ time and space that helped, I would 248 -00:12:06,412 --> 00:12:11,721 -say for the most part. But also, -I don't know. I know, like, I +00:12:06,412 --> 00:12:09,066 +say for the most part. But +also-- I don't know. I know, 249 -00:12:11,812 --> 00:12:16,042 -wanted flexibility in my job and -like, where I worked. Like, that +00:12:09,066 --> 00:12:11,720 +like, I 250 +00:12:11,812 --> 00:12:13,927 +wanted flexibility in my job +and, like, where I worked. Like, + +251 +00:12:13,927 --> 00:12:16,042 +that + +252 00:12:16,042 --> 00:12:17,977 was also the catalyst of going into the master's degree -251 +253 00:12:17,977 --> 00:12:19,912 program. -252 +254 00:12:19,912 --> 00:12:22,056 So, like, I think that thread just continued. And I was like, -253 +255 00:12:22,056 --> 00:12:24,200 "Okay, I -254 +256 00:12:24,201 --> 00:12:28,672 think I could do tech again." -Because I've tried, like, I also +Because I've tried-- like, I -255 +257 00:12:28,731 --> 00:12:31,942 -tried writing on the side a -little bit, but that didn't feel +also tried writing on the side a +little bit but that didn't feel -256 +258 00:12:31,942 --> 00:12:38,841 quite as a fit. So I think just ... I dunno. The reflection and -257 -00:12:39,831 --> 00:12:43,522 -wanting to like challenge myself -and see something to completion +259 +00:12:39,831 --> 00:12:43,000 +wanting to, like, challenge +myself and see something to -258 -00:12:43,581 --> 00:12:44,392 -also helped. +260 +00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:44,392 +completion also helped. -259 +261 00:12:44,923 --> 00:12:48,703 Dan: Can you talk a little bit about your experience? -260 +262 00:12:48,823 --> 00:12:52,000 So, if I have this right, you -did a -- the bootcamp, and then +did a-- the bootcamp and then -261 +263 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,500 you went to a master's program after that? -262 +264 00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:54,800 Sadie: Mm-hmm. I did, yeah. -263 +265 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,803 -Dan: So, that's like a lot of +Dan: So that's, like, a lot of school, like, [laughs] -264 +266 00:12:56,808 --> 00:12:57,500 -in a -- all together. +in a-- all together. -265 +267 00:12:57,500 --> 00:12:57,800 Sadie: Yeah [laughs]. -266 +268 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,000 -Dan: Can you talk a little -- I- -I don't think I've actually -- +Dan: Can you talk a little-- I- +I don't think I've actually-- -267 +269 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,923 we've talked to anybody who is learn web design stuff or web -268 +270 00:13:03,923 --> 00:13:07,524 development stuff in a master's -program. Could you -- would you +program. Could you-- would you -269 +271 00:13:07,524 --> 00:13:09,300 mind sharing a little bit about what that was like? -270 +272 00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:10,500 Sadie: Sure. Yeah. -271 +273 00:13:10,700 --> 00:13:11,033 Dan: And- and, -272 +274 00:13:11,033 --> 00:13:13,283 -especially, like, compared to -- +especially, like, compared to-- since you did it right after the -273 +275 00:13:13,283 --> 00:13:16,823 bootcamp, maybe- maybe compared to what- what it was like- -274 +276 00:13:16,823 --> 00:13:17,004 Sadie: Right. -275 +277 00:13:17,004 --> 00:13:19,192 Dan: -yep. Yeah. The different approaches and everything. -276 +278 00:13:19,524 --> 00:13:23,700 -Sadie: Yeah. So, okay. So I did +Sadie: Yeah. So-- okay. So I did the bootcamp. And I- I don't -277 +279 00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:28,313 even can know if I completed the course, like, before I did the -278 +280 00:13:28,313 --> 00:13:31,464 master's. Like, it was just enough to be like, "Okay, this -279 +281 00:13:31,464 --> 00:13:35,994 seems like something I could do." So I went into my master's -280 +282 00:13:35,999 --> 00:13:40,673 program without any knowledge of code or anything. But that was -281 +283 00:13:40,703 --> 00:13:44,604 -the -- like the setup for the +the-- like, the setup for the degree. Like, you didn't have to -282 -00:13:44,604 --> 00:13:50,364 -have any prior knowledge. But, I -don't know. I don't -- I kind of +284 +00:13:44,604 --> 00:13:47,484 +have any prior knowledge. But-- +I don't know. I don't-- I kind -283 +285 +00:13:47,484 --> 00:13:50,364 +of + +286 00:13:50,364 --> 00:13:53,611 don't know how to, like, give -more details, cuz it was -- it- +more details cuz it was-- it- -284 +287 00:13:53,611 --> 00:13:56,858 -it -- like +it-- like -285 +288 00:13:56,859 --> 00:14:03,188 -college. Like you -- like, we +college. Like, you-- like, we had four classes a semester — -286 +289 00:14:03,188 --> 00:14:05,033 that's what I signed up for. And, like, the very first class -287 +290 00:14:05,033 --> 00:14:06,878 -was +was, -288 +291 00:14:06,884 --> 00:14:09,971 -like a web design principles, -and like, it went into HTML, and +like, a web design principles, +and, like, it went into HTML, -289 +292 00:14:09,971 --> 00:14:13,058 -maybe +and maybe -290 +293 00:14:13,058 --> 00:14:15,639 a little bit of CSS, and I don't even think we touched JavaScript -291 +294 00:14:15,639 --> 00:14:19,000 that much in that first class. And then it built up from there. -292 +295 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,308 -We learned like -- it was mostly +We learned, like-- it was mostly DOM manipulation. Cuz it- it -293 +296 00:14:21,308 --> 00:14:23,063 -wasn't +wasn't, -294 +297 00:14:23,063 --> 00:14:25,118 -like a computer science class, +like, a computer science class, so we didn't learn, like, -295 +298 00:14:25,118 --> 00:14:27,173 -algorithms +algorithms, -296 +299 00:14:27,173 --> 00:14:30,293 -or data structures or anything +or data structures, or anything like that. But basically, like, -297 +300 00:14:30,298 --> 00:14:33,295 -how to create websites, and, +how to create websites and, like, webpages with an eye for -298 +301 00:14:33,295 --> 00:14:36,292 design. -299 +302 00:14:37,043 --> 00:14:44,514 -We also learn like Adobe Suite, -and social media, and +We also learn, like, Adobe +Suite, and social media, and, -300 +303 00:14:44,514 --> 00:14:48,000 like, analytics for websites, and things like that. Like, the -301 +304 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:52,448 capstone project was to create a WordPress site for a local -302 +305 00:14:52,448 --> 00:14:56,078 company. And our -303 +306 00:14:56,078 --> 00:14:58,733 cohort was divided up into -teams. And that was like -- that +teams. And that was, like-- that -304 +307 00:14:58,733 --> 00:15:01,388 was -305 +308 00:15:02,469 --> 00:15:06,519 the peak, like, the end of the program. But I say all that to -306 +309 00:15:06,519 --> 00:15:11,500 -say, like -- so, I did that, +say, like-- so I did that, finished in 2018, and then went -307 +310 00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:19,719 back into the bootcamp 2021. And I- I feel like I retained enough -308 +311 00:15:19,719 --> 00:15:23,408 -information, but it was enough -to know that like, "Oh, yeah. I +information but it was enough to +know that like, "Oh, yeah. I -309 +312 00:15:23,408 --> 00:15:26,723 remember learning that in school." So I felt like what I -310 +313 00:15:26,723 --> 00:15:30,038 learned in -311 -00:15:30,038 --> 00:15:31,688 +314 +00:15:30,038 --> 00:15:33,338 the bootcamp and what I learned -in school were comparable, but - -312 -00:15:31,688 --> 00:15:33,338 -it +in school were comparable but it -313 -00:15:33,339 --> 00:15:35,438 +315 +00:15:33,339 --> 00:15:37,537 was just that I had more time in school to learn the things and -314 -00:15:35,438 --> 00:15:37,537 -to +316 +00:15:37,538 --> 00:15:39,919 +to, like-- kinda like, dive into +each thing that was taught, -315 -00:15:37,538 --> 00:15:42,300 -like, kinda like, dive into each -thing that was taught, like, +317 +00:15:39,919 --> 00:15:42,300 +like, -316 +318 00:15:42,300 --> 00:15:45,346 -each aspect of HTML or CSS or +each aspect of HTML, or CSS, or JavaScript. Whereas the bootcamp -317 +319 00:15:45,346 --> 00:15:47,963 was like, -318 +320 00:15:47,964 --> 00:15:52,163 basically, the same topics but just in a more condensed -319 +321 00:15:52,224 --> 00:15:57,894 -time space, even though it was +time space even though it was self-paced. So, yeah. It was -320 +322 00:15:57,894 --> 00:15:58,524 really interesting. -321 +323 00:15:59,543 --> 00:16:00,683 Dan: Yeah, I guess it makes sense. -322 +324 00:16:01,359 --> 00:16:05,500 -Bekah: So, the -- so, after you +Bekah: So, the-- so, after you did the master's program- -323 +325 00:16:05,500 --> 00:16:06,000 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -324 +326 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,000 Bekah: -then you went into the bootcamp- -325 +327 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:07,300 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -326 +328 00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:11,198 Bekah: -was there any interview prep that you did -327 +329 00:16:11,438 --> 00:16:13,088 as part of the master's program -or was that -- did you do that +or was that-- did you do that -328 +330 00:16:13,088 --> 00:16:14,918 -in the [laughs] -- you face it. +in the [laughs]-- you face it. [Laughs] No. -329 +331 00:16:15,999 --> 00:16:19,824 -Sadie: [Laughs] Yeah, no. For +Sadie: [Laughs] Yeah-- no. For the master's program absolutely -330 +332 00:16:19,824 --> 00:16:23,649 not. -331 +333 00:16:23,739 --> 00:16:27,759 And I feel like that's why, like, I was so blindsided by the -332 +334 00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:35,048 -LeetCode challenge. But, yeah. -What -- the- the, like, real +LeetCode challenge. But-- yeah. +What-- the- the, like, real -333 +335 00:16:35,048 --> 00:16:40,239 -world aspect of the bootcamp -- +world aspect of the bootcamp-- oh, not the bootcamp. Of the -334 +336 00:16:40,239 --> 00:16:43,568 -master's degree was like an +master's degree was, like, an internship. So I did an -335 +337 00:16:43,568 --> 00:16:48,698 internship at American Document POV, a media company. -336 -00:16:49,178 --> 00:16:51,383 -And I'm- I'm smiling because -like, I don't -- y'all can't see - -337 -00:16:51,383 --> 00:16:53,588 -me, - 338 +00:16:49,178 --> 00:16:53,588 +And I'm- I'm smiling because, +like, I don't-- y'all can't see + +339 00:16:53,589 --> 00:16:55,739 -but I'm smiling. And [laughs] +me but I'm smiling. And [laughs] and I'm laughing because, like, -339 +340 00:16:55,739 --> 00:16:57,889 it was an -340 +341 00:16:57,889 --> 00:17:01,700 -internship in the digital team, +internship in the digital team but it didn't have anything to -341 +342 00:17:01,700 --> 00:17:05,108 do with, like, the website or anything. So I had to, like, -342 +343 00:17:05,108 --> 00:17:06,773 shoehorn, like, "Hey, I- I need to do something with WordPress. -343 +344 00:17:06,773 --> 00:17:08,438 I need -344 +345 00:17:08,443 --> 00:17:10,390 to do something [laughs]." But what it ended up being was more -345 +346 00:17:10,390 --> 00:17:12,337 like me -346 +347 00:17:12,338 --> 00:17:14,483 working with the producers and doing, like, other cool stuff. -347 +348 00:17:14,483 --> 00:17:16,628 -But, +But-- -348 +349 00:17:16,628 --> 00:17:17,963 yeah. No. That was the extent of, like, the real world -349 +350 00:17:17,963 --> 00:17:19,298 application -350 +351 00:17:19,298 --> 00:17:23,798 for the master's program. So I -was like completely lost when I +was, like, completely lost when -351 +352 00:17:23,798 --> 00:17:27,578 -was job hunting and ... yeah +I was job hunting and ... yeah [laughs]. -352 +353 00:17:28,923 --> 00:17:30,993 Bekah: I think most people are completely lost when they're job -353 +354 00:17:31,324 --> 00:17:34,114 hun- hunting, you know? It's -just like, there's not a lot of +just, like, there's not a lot of -354 +355 00:17:34,114 --> 00:17:37,804 preparation and job interviews are all over the place. So you -355 +356 00:17:37,808 --> 00:17:41,943 just never know what to expect. -And like, having to prepare so +And, like, having to prepare so -356 +357 00:17:42,064 --> 00:17:46,263 much for each one of them makes it really, really hard. Did you -357 +358 00:17:46,263 --> 00:17:48,453 do interview prep with Skillcrush? -358 +359 00:17:48,909 --> 00:17:50,964 Sadie: I did. Yeah. So, the front-end developer intensive -359 +360 00:17:50,964 --> 00:17:53,019 includes -360 +361 00:17:53,078 --> 00:17:56,243 a job hunting coach — like a career coach — that helps you, -361 +362 00:17:56,243 --> 00:17:59,408 like, -362 +363 00:18:00,578 --> 00:18:02,333 -with prepare your resume, and +with prepare your resume, and, like, prepare your cover letter, -363 +364 00:18:02,333 --> 00:18:04,088 and get -364 +365 00:18:04,088 --> 00:18:09,068 your, like, one minute, like ... what's it called? Like, a one -365 +366 00:18:09,074 --> 00:18:12,488 minute, like, spiel about yourself and ... I dunno. Just -366 +367 00:18:12,489 --> 00:18:13,000 interview practice and- -367 +368 00:18:13,500 --> 00:18:14,000 Bekah: Elevator pitch. -368 +369 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,608 Sadie: -how to answer questions. Exactly. Elevator -369 +370 00:18:15,608 --> 00:18:19,989 pitch. Yeah, so Skillcrush had that. And that really opened my -370 +371 00:18:19,989 --> 00:18:23,063 eyes to, like, how to be -strategic when job hunting. And +strategic when job hunting. And, -371 +372 00:18:23,063 --> 00:18:26,137 -like -- kinda +like-- kinda -372 +373 00:18:26,144 --> 00:18:28,898 like understand what to expect when interviewing in the tech -373 +374 00:18:28,898 --> 00:18:31,403 -field. And, yeah. Without that, +field. And-- yeah. Without that, I- I really don't think I -374 +375 00:18:31,403 --> 00:18:33,908 -would've -- +would've-- -375 +376 00:18:34,358 --> 00:18:38,798 or it- it either would have taken me a lot longer to find my -376 +377 00:18:38,804 --> 00:18:43,500 job or I would have stopped again. And probably would've -377 +378 00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:45,048 said maybe tech just not for me. -378 +379 00:18:47,413 --> 00:18:49,304 Bekah: Yeah. And that's so unfortunate that there are so -379 +380 00:18:49,304 --> 00:18:51,419 many people trying to break into tech and are just quitting -380 +381 00:18:51,419 --> 00:18:53,534 before -381 +382 00:18:53,534 --> 00:18:55,439 -they get there, because the +they get there because the inter- and the interview process -382 +383 00:18:55,439 --> 00:18:57,344 is not -383 +384 00:18:57,344 --> 00:19:00,693 reflective of most of the stuff that you're going to be doing. -384 +385 00:19:02,844 --> 00:19:04,298 -Sadie: Mm-mm. Mm-mm. And like, +Sadie: Mm-mm. Mm-mm. And, like, without that knowledge of like, -385 +386 00:19:04,298 --> 00:19:05,752 -"Oh, like, I +"Oh," like, "I -386 +387 00:19:05,753 --> 00:19:08,153 actually don't maybe need to know how to, like, do this -387 +388 00:19:08,153 --> 00:19:10,553 LeetCode-y -388 +389 00:19:10,554 --> 00:19:13,434 thing," like, if you don't have -that understanding, then like -- +that understanding then, like-- -389 +390 00:19:13,434 --> 00:19:16,314 I feel -390 +391 00:19:16,314 --> 00:19:17,724 like that's what feels like the- the tutorial loop were like, -391 +392 00:19:17,724 --> 00:19:19,134 "Oh, -392 +393 00:19:19,134 --> 00:19:21,249 I need to know how to do this weird niche thing." Or like, -393 +394 00:19:21,249 --> 00:19:23,364 "Maybe -394 +395 00:19:23,368 --> 00:19:27,144 I actually don't know enough, so I need to keep going." Like ... -395 +396 00:19:27,144 --> 00:19:30,000 -I don't know. It -- the -interview process is so, like, +I don't know. It-- the interview +process is so, like, -396 +397 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,034 demoralizing. Or it can be. -397 +398 00:19:33,384 --> 00:19:34,599 Bekah: That's a really good word -for -- I even think, like, some +for-- I even think, like, some -398 +399 00:19:34,599 --> 00:19:35,814 of -399 +400 00:19:35,814 --> 00:19:40,703 the best interview processes are still very exhausting and tough -400 +401 00:19:40,703 --> 00:19:46,000 -to get through. So, why don't -you -- can you walk us through +to get through. So why don't +you-- can you walk us through -401 +402 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,534 what it was like to prepare for an interview? -402 +403 00:19:49,328 --> 00:19:52,118 Sadie: Ooh, that's a good -question [chuckles]. I -- hmm. +question [chuckles]. I-- hmm. -403 +404 00:19:52,118 --> 00:19:54,908 That's a good -404 +405 00:19:54,909 --> 00:19:57,166 question. I feel like what I did would be to, like, look at the -405 +406 00:19:57,166 --> 00:19:59,423 job -406 +407 00:19:59,423 --> 00:20:00,818 -website, and like, look at the +website, and, like, look at the people that I'm interviewing -407 +408 00:20:00,818 --> 00:20:02,213 with, -408 +409 00:20:02,304 --> 00:20:03,564 -and like, kinda stalk their -Instagram -- oh, not Instagram +and, like, kinda stalk their +Instagram-- oh, not Instagram -409 +410 00:20:03,564 --> 00:20:04,824 [laughs]. -410 +411 00:20:05,693 --> 00:20:09,743 Their LinkedIn. I dunno why I -said Instagram. But, yeah. +said Instagram. But-- yeah. -411 +412 00:20:09,749 --> 00:20:11,396 Stalk their LinkedIn a little -bit and try to find, like, some +bit, and try to find, like, some -412 +413 00:20:11,396 --> 00:20:13,043 sort of -413 +414 00:20:13,044 --> 00:20:18,173 commonality that I may have with -them and have the idea to bring +them, and have the idea to bring -414 +415 00:20:18,173 --> 00:20:23,003 it up. Even though, like, I'm really shy and I probably won't -415 +416 00:20:23,009 --> 00:20:24,693 ever bring up like, "Hey, I looked at your LinkedIn." And I -416 +417 00:20:24,693 --> 00:20:26,377 noticed, -417 +418 00:20:26,378 --> 00:20:28,058 like, I'm not that kind of person. But just having that, -418 +419 00:20:28,058 --> 00:20:29,738 like, -419 +420 00:20:29,739 --> 00:20:33,128 background behind that person that I'm gonna be interviewing -420 +421 00:20:34,209 --> 00:20:38,318 help me feel a little more confident. I would also try -421 +422 00:20:38,318 --> 00:20:42,818 to gather a few questions. VCer, Jennifer, I don't -422 +423 00:20:42,848 --> 00:20:46,179 remember how to say her last name. But she has a list of -423 +424 00:20:46,179 --> 00:20:49,959 questions to ask during an interview. Like, to the -424 +425 00:20:49,959 --> 00:20:53,979 interviewer, to try and gauge, like, your fit with the role in -425 +426 00:20:53,979 --> 00:20:58,628 the company. And I would like, -look -- go back to that- to +look-- go back to that-- to -426 +427 00:20:58,628 --> 00:21:02,138 -that page, and like, pick out +that page, and, like, pick out questions for every single -427 +428 00:21:02,138 --> 00:21:03,998 interview that I had to make sure that like, "Okay, this is -428 +429 00:21:03,998 --> 00:21:05,858 what I -429 +430 00:21:05,858 --> 00:21:08,858 need to know about this role and about the company to make sure -430 +431 00:21:08,864 --> 00:21:12,461 that I'm going to fit with them." So in order to make it a- -431 +432 00:21:12,461 --> 00:21:16,058 a- a process -432 +433 00:21:16,058 --> 00:21:19,013 of, like, I'm also interviewing the interviewer. Like, it's not -433 +434 00:21:19,013 --> 00:21:23,034 just me. It's- it's a two way -thing that I need to also be fit +thing that I need to also be -434 +435 00:21:23,064 --> 00:21:24,894 --- a fit, and they need to be a -fit with me. +fit-- a fit and they need to be +a fit with me. -435 +436 00:21:25,776 --> 00:21:27,500 -Dan: Yeah, I think that's- I +Dan: Yeah, I think that's-- I think that's really important. -436 +437 00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:30,425 And it can get lost sometimes, especially- -437 +438 00:21:30,971 --> 00:21:31,391 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -438 +439 00:21:32,060 --> 00:21:33,350 Dan: -I don't know. On long journeys [laughs], on long, you -439 +440 00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:34,640 know, -440 +441 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,845 -struggles. But I -- so I- I was -gonna ask them -- it made me +struggles. But I-- so I- I was +gonna ask them-- it made me -441 +442 00:21:36,845 --> 00:21:38,930 think, -442 +443 00:21:39,441 --> 00:21:43,461 did you run into any, you know, you said you were doing this for -443 +444 00:21:43,461 --> 00:21:44,000 so long and- -444 +445 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:44,300 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -445 +446 00:21:44,300 --> 00:21:46,820 Dan: -how many did you say you did? How many interviews did -446 +447 00:21:46,820 --> 00:21:48,260 you say? I- I can't remember how -many, but like a lot- +many but, like, a lot- -447 +448 00:21:48,395 --> 00:21:49,086 -Sadie: That was at least -- +Sadie: That was at least-- -448 +449 00:21:49,250 --> 00:21:49,760 Dan: -right? -449 +450 00:21:49,895 --> 00:21:51,300 Sadie: It was a lot of interviews, for sure. -450 +451 00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:51,500 Dan: Yeah. Yeah. -451 +452 00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:54,455 -Sadie: It was like 250 +Sadie: It was, like, 250 applications and ... yeah. -452 +453 00:21:55,580 --> 00:21:58,700 Dan: Yeah. Wow. A-and so, like, -were- were there -- I mean, +were- were there-- I mean, -453 +454 00:21:58,700 --> 00:21:59,691 you don't have to, like, call -454 +455 00:21:59,691 --> 00:22:01,340 them out or anything [chuckles], but were there any times where -455 +456 00:22:01,340 --> 00:22:02,989 -you were -- +you were-- -456 +457 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,780 you got down the road a little bit and were like, "Oh, I don't -457 +458 00:22:05,780 --> 00:22:08,451 know if this is actually a good fit for me," you know, on your -458 +459 00:22:08,451 --> 00:22:08,840 side? -459 +460 00:22:09,205 --> 00:22:12,622 Sadie: Right. That's a good question. There's been a few -460 +461 00:22:12,626 --> 00:22:15,205 times, I would say. But even when that happened, I would try -461 +462 00:22:15,205 --> 00:22:17,784 to go -462 +463 00:22:17,785 --> 00:22:19,629 into it thinking like, "Okay, -this is interview practice." Or +this is interview practice." Or, -463 +464 00:22:19,629 --> 00:22:21,473 like, -464 +465 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,700 say, I got a take-home or some, like, technical test, I would -465 +466 00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:27,835 say, "Okay, this may be outta my -wheelhouse, but I may -- I'm +wheelhouse, but I may-- I'm -466 +467 00:22:27,835 --> 00:22:29,545 still -467 +468 00:22:29,545 --> 00:22:33,115 gonna give X amount of time to it, just to see what I can learn -468 -00:22:33,115 --> 00:22:37,884 -from this." Like takeaway or -from this interview or from this - 469 +00:22:33,115 --> 00:22:35,499 +from this, like, takeaway, or +from this interview, or from + +470 +00:22:35,499 --> 00:22:37,883 +this + +471 00:22:37,884 --> 00:22:39,674 interaction that I can then hopefully improve the next time -470 +472 00:22:39,674 --> 00:22:42,105 -I have an interview. +I have an interview." -471 +473 00:22:42,746 --> 00:22:43,930 Dan: Hm. I think that's an awesome attitude. I, you know, -472 +474 00:22:43,930 --> 00:22:45,114 I've- -473 +475 00:22:45,115 --> 00:22:48,655 -I've -- we've had several people +I've-- we've had several people suggest, like, taking interviews -474 +476 00:22:48,655 --> 00:22:51,776 even when you're not actively looking for jobs [laughs]. -475 +477 00:22:51,806 --> 00:22:53,875 Sometimes to do that practice -cuz -- and it's just like you +cuz-- and it's just like you -476 +478 00:22:53,875 --> 00:22:55,944 both -477 +479 00:22:55,945 --> 00:23:00,000 were saying, it's- it's so hard -and -- emotionally hard, and +and-- emotionally hard and -478 +480 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,895 also just, like, intellectually -hard. And I- I feel -- I mean, +hard. And I- I feel-- I mean, -479 +481 00:23:03,895 --> 00:23:06,476 interviewing is absolutely a skill that is separate from -480 +482 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:07,700 everything else, right? -481 +483 00:23:07,700 --> 00:23:08,000 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -482 +484 00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:10,391 Dan: And ... like any skill, I think you can -483 +485 00:23:10,391 --> 00:23:14,770 get better at it with practice. But I- I love that attitude -484 +486 00:23:14,770 --> 00:23:17,621 that you have. I mean, it's just like, "Okay, this might not be -485 +487 00:23:17,891 --> 00:23:20,300 perfect or whatever, but I'm -still gonna go through, and +still gonna go through and -486 +488 00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:21,700 build up the skills or whatever [laughs]." -487 +489 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:22,300 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -488 +490 00:23:22,300 --> 00:23:22,546 Dan: That's awesome. -489 +491 00:23:23,131 --> 00:23:23,550 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -490 +492 00:23:23,931 --> 00:23:25,370 Bekah: Yeah, it's really hard. Even that idea of, like, -491 +493 00:23:25,370 --> 00:23:26,809 practicing -492 +494 00:23:27,260 --> 00:23:30,201 -an interview -- you know, like +an interview-- you know, like, going on practice interviews, I -493 +495 00:23:30,201 --> 00:23:36,770 find to be incredibly -overwhelming to -- I have to +overwhelming to-- I have to -494 +496 00:23:36,770 --> 00:23:40,701 mentally prepare myself and I'm trying to, like, make that shift -495 +497 00:23:40,730 --> 00:23:42,785 -in mindset of, you know, "What --- there aren't stakes here. I'm +in mindset of, you know, "What-- +there aren't stakes here. I'm -496 +498 00:23:42,785 --> 00:23:44,840 not -497 +499 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,970 being judged. This is practice to learn something." And- and -498 +500 00:23:46,970 --> 00:23:49,100 try and -499 +501 00:23:49,101 --> 00:23:50,555 flip it, kind of like how you -said, 'Where you're interviewing +said, "Where you're interviewing -500 +502 00:23:50,555 --> 00:23:52,009 the -501 +503 00:23:52,010 --> 00:23:56,211 -company as well.' Because it's --- it might not be a good fit. +company as well." Because it's-- +it might not be a good fit. -502 +504 00:23:56,211 --> 00:23:57,845 And I would say, like, that's some of the most advice that I -503 +505 00:23:57,845 --> 00:23:59,479 give to -504 +506 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,790 people who are interviewing for their first job. They're like, -505 +507 00:24:02,211 --> 00:24:03,828 "Oh, well, what do you think -about this?" Like, that's a- +about this?" Like, "That's a-- -506 +508 00:24:03,828 --> 00:24:05,445 that's a -507 +509 00:24:05,445 --> 00:24:09,226 red flag. I wouldn't go through -that. And I think maybe as I +that." And I think, maybe, as I -508 +510 00:24:09,226 --> 00:24:13,246 -identify what red flags are -- I +identify what red flags are-- I will say the more I interview, -509 +511 00:24:13,336 --> 00:24:16,875 the more I'm able to identify what flags are. Because I put -510 +512 00:24:16,881 --> 00:24:18,303 myself in situations where I'm like, "This is great." And then -511 +513 00:24:18,303 --> 00:24:19,725 I'm -512 +514 00:24:19,726 --> 00:24:22,546 like, "This is not great." And I should have been able to figure -513 +515 00:24:22,550 --> 00:24:25,000 this out before I got into this position. -514 +516 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:25,300 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -515 +517 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,766 Bekah: So, at least, like, -516 +518 00:24:27,826 --> 00:24:31,006 keeping track of that maybe feels like, "All right, this is -517 +519 00:24:31,006 --> 00:24:33,536 progress. I'm learning -something. And now -- next +something. And now-- next -518 +520 00:24:33,536 --> 00:24:36,066 time, I'm never, never -519 +521 00:24:36,066 --> 00:24:38,000 gonna interview for anything -ever again." I've just [laughs] +ever again." I've just -520 +522 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,405 --- want starting my +[laughs]-- want starting my -521 +523 00:24:41,405 --> 00:24:45,276 own company next because I don't wanna have to go through that. -522 +524 00:24:45,276 --> 00:24:49,715 But if- if- if in the off chance I do have to go through it, I- I -523 +525 00:24:49,715 --> 00:24:51,665 really want to approach it with -the, 'I'm interviewing you +the, "I'm interviewing you -524 +526 00:24:51,665 --> 00:24:53,615 -first.' +first." -525 +527 00:24:53,615 --> 00:24:54,111 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -526 +528 00:24:54,111 --> 00:24:56,856 -Bekah: And- and that kind of -like changes the power dynamic +Bekah: And- and that kind of, +like, changes the power dynamic -527 +529 00:24:56,856 --> 00:24:59,601 in the -528 +530 00:24:59,601 --> 00:25:02,810 situation. And I think kind of alleviates some of that stress -529 +531 00:25:02,816 --> 00:25:06,351 that you get going into those interviews where it's like -530 +532 00:25:07,141 --> 00:25:09,500 somebody is staring at me right now. Well, like, "Hey, I'm -531 +533 00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:11,381 staring right back at you, -buddy." So -- +buddy." So-- -532 +534 00:25:11,411 --> 00:25:13,550 Sadie: Right, right. Exactly. -533 +535 00:25:14,176 --> 00:25:16,817 Bekah: So, how long did you prep for your interviews? -534 +536 00:25:18,227 --> 00:25:23,116 Sadie: That's a good question. It would depend. -535 +537 00:25:23,116 --> 00:25:27,196 Like, I know when I was first -starting out my job- my job +starting out my job-- my job -536 +538 00:25:27,227 --> 00:25:28,816 hunting process, I would be really diligent about, "Okay. -537 +539 00:25:28,816 --> 00:25:30,405 I'm -538 +540 00:25:30,406 --> 00:25:33,826 gonna, like, make sure I have my list of questions ready, make -539 +541 00:25:33,832 --> 00:25:35,359 sure I, like, review the website, make sure I look at -540 +542 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:36,886 everybody, and -541 +543 00:25:36,886 --> 00:25:41,000 all this stuff." But the more I got, like, used to interviewing, -542 +544 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,456 I would say the- the less I actually, like, sat down and -543 +545 00:25:43,456 --> 00:25:45,046 prepped for the -544 +546 00:25:45,047 --> 00:25:48,211 interviews which I don't know if I would recommend or not, but -545 +547 00:25:48,211 --> 00:25:51,375 ... I -546 +548 00:25:51,376 --> 00:25:53,476 -don't know. I just -- I guess, I +don't know. I just-- I guess, I got just more comfortable, like, -547 +549 00:25:53,476 --> 00:25:55,576 being -548 +550 00:25:55,576 --> 00:25:58,500 in that space of, "Okay, this is the thing that we're doing. -549 +551 00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:01,666 Like, we're both trying to gauge -whether or not we're a fit, and +whether or not we're a fit and -550 +552 00:26:03,676 --> 00:26:05,521 we'll see what happens from -there." So -- if that makes +there." So-- if that makes -551 +553 00:26:05,521 --> 00:26:07,366 sense [chuckles]. -552 +554 00:26:08,001 --> 00:26:09,791 Bekah: Yeah. No, I love that. It shows that you're gaining -553 +555 00:26:09,791 --> 00:26:14,000 confidence as you go forward and you've done these practices. So, -554 +556 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,187 -you know, that- that's more -- I +you know, that-- that's more-- I think that, you know, that's -555 +557 00:26:17,187 --> 00:26:18,942 also one -556 +558 00:26:18,942 --> 00:26:22,872 of those issues where people who are continually interviewing are -557 +559 00:26:22,872 --> 00:26:27,000 just pushing themselves so hard to do this prep over and over -558 +560 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,961 and over. And that also kind of leads to that situation of, -559 +561 00:26:28,961 --> 00:26:30,641 like, you -560 +562 00:26:30,642 --> 00:26:34,727 talked about, like, burning out in tech. There's definitely that -561 +563 00:26:34,727 --> 00:26:37,007 burnout in the interview process. And so sometimes you -562 +564 00:26:37,007 --> 00:26:39,287 have to take -563 +565 00:26:39,287 --> 00:26:41,386 a break. And the- the other part of that is, like, when you're -564 +566 00:26:41,386 --> 00:26:44,656 interviewing so much, you don't have time to be working on, -565 +567 00:26:44,656 --> 00:26:48,047 like, personal projects or other things. It's like a full time -566 +568 00:26:48,051 --> 00:26:48,217 job. -567 +569 00:26:48,616 --> 00:26:50,386 Sadie: [Laughs] Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That was one of -568 +570 00:26:50,386 --> 00:26:52,156 the tips that I -569 +571 00:26:52,156 --> 00:26:58,126 got while job hunting and with -the career coach, was that +the career coach was that, -570 +572 00:26:58,132 --> 00:27:00,349 like, you can, like, stop trying to keep up with personal -571 +573 00:27:00,349 --> 00:27:02,566 projects. -572 +574 00:27:02,626 --> 00:27:05,154 Like, this is what you need to be doing. And, like, once you -573 +575 00:27:05,154 --> 00:27:07,682 secure your -574 +576 00:27:07,682 --> 00:27:09,211 job, then you can start your personal projects back up and -575 +577 00:27:09,211 --> 00:27:10,740 be, -576 +578 00:27:10,741 --> 00:27:16,711 -like, getting paid for it. But, -yeah. Like, the idea was that +like, getting paid for it. But-- +yeah. Like, the idea was that, -577 +579 00:27:16,711 --> 00:27:19,501 -like, you could do both, but +like, you could do both but, like, you probably better off -578 +580 00:27:19,501 --> 00:27:22,291 -not, +not-- -579 +581 00:27:22,291 --> 00:27:26,281 -so you can completely focus on --- like, your time and energy on +so you can completely focus on, +like, your time and energy on -580 +582 00:27:26,342 --> 00:27:27,700 interviewing. And then when you're not interviewing, you -581 -00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:32,852 -can, like, be off and like, live -your life. So, yeah. You know? +583 +00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:30,276 +can, like, be off and, like, +live your life. So-- yeah. You -582 +584 +00:27:30,276 --> 00:27:32,852 +know? + +585 00:27:34,451 --> 00:27:36,671 -Bekah: Yeah. I like the idea -too, of like giving yourself +Bekah: Yeah. I like the idea, +too, of, like, giving yourself -583 +586 00:27:36,671 --> 00:27:40,060 permission. You can have permission. It's okay to not be -584 +587 00:27:40,060 --> 00:27:43,451 working on these personal projects. And I even think that -585 +588 00:27:43,451 --> 00:27:46,510 it's okay to take a break from interviewing, you know? I know -586 +589 00:27:46,510 --> 00:27:50,141 that people feel like they're losing momentum or they're not -587 +590 00:27:50,141 --> 00:27:51,970 ever going to be able to find the next interview if they're -588 +591 00:27:51,970 --> 00:27:53,799 not -589 +592 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,310 doing it all the time. But, you know, if you're burning yourself -590 +593 00:27:57,310 --> 00:27:59,530 out before you start, then you're gonna start burnt out -591 +594 00:27:59,530 --> 00:28:01,750 too. And -592 +595 00:28:01,750 --> 00:28:02,800 that's not where you wanna be. -593 +596 00:28:05,500 --> 00:28:06,131 Sadie: Mm. Mm. Very true. -594 +597 00:28:07,090 --> 00:28:12,790 Bekah: So, as you were looking for a job, what was your method -595 +598 00:28:12,820 --> 00:28:16,330 of applying? Were you applying? Were you reaching out to people -596 +599 00:28:16,330 --> 00:28:19,780 personally? What kind of was the right direction for you? -597 +600 00:28:20,875 --> 00:28:25,675 Sadie: Ooh, that's a great question. First, I started off -598 -00:28:25,675 --> 00:28:30,605 -just applying. So, I- I think, I -started off using like LinkedIn +601 +00:28:25,675 --> 00:28:28,140 +just applying. So, I- I think I +started off using, like, -599 +602 +00:28:28,140 --> 00:28:30,605 +LinkedIn + +603 00:28:30,685 --> 00:28:33,115 and ... maybe just LinkedIn at first. But then I started -600 +604 00:28:33,115 --> 00:28:35,545 getting more -601 +605 00:28:35,546 --> 00:28:38,500 plugged into, like, the -different job sites, like remote +different job sites, like, -602 +606 00:28:38,500 --> 00:28:39,476 -and -- like +remote and-- like, -603 +607 00:28:39,476 --> 00:28:42,281 different remote job boards cuz I knew I wanted to be remote. -604 +608 00:28:42,281 --> 00:28:45,086 Then -605 +609 00:28:45,086 --> 00:28:50,816 the further along I got into my, like, application groove, I -606 +610 00:28:50,816 --> 00:28:55,316 started reaching out to hiring -managers on LinkedIn, and even, +managers on LinkedIn and even, -607 +611 00:28:55,316 --> 00:28:57,191 like, other engineers that were at companies that I saw were -608 +612 00:28:57,191 --> 00:28:59,066 either -609 +613 00:28:59,066 --> 00:29:02,700 hiring or that I thought would be interesting to work at. And -610 +614 00:29:02,700 --> 00:29:04,788 from there, I would try to make a connection and be like, "Hey," -611 +615 00:29:04,788 --> 00:29:06,371 like, -612 +616 00:29:06,371 --> 00:29:07,930 "I'm looking for engineering roles," or, "I see that you -613 +617 00:29:07,930 --> 00:29:09,489 have, like, a -614 +618 00:29:09,490 --> 00:29:14,171 software engineer role open. Who should I talk to, basically?" -615 +619 00:29:14,681 --> 00:29:16,826 And so, sometimes I wouldn't get a response, which is fine. But -616 +620 00:29:16,826 --> 00:29:18,971 when -617 +621 00:29:18,971 --> 00:29:23,770 -I did get a response, it would --- usually I would get an +I did get a response, it would-- +usually I would get an -618 +622 00:29:23,776 --> 00:29:26,383 -interview and like, be able to +interview and, like, be able to put a name to a face and, like, -619 +623 00:29:26,383 --> 00:29:28,990 start a -620 +624 00:29:28,990 --> 00:29:31,038 conversation. So that- that was also another thing that I -621 +625 00:29:31,038 --> 00:29:33,086 learned that -622 +626 00:29:33,385 --> 00:29:35,996 I feel like I would probably do more of, would be to actually -623 +627 00:29:35,996 --> 00:29:39,000 reach out to people on LinkedIn -and like, have a conversation, +and, like, have a conversation -624 +628 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,730 as opposed to just applying or even not even apply. Cuz I found -625 +629 00:29:42,730 --> 00:29:45,535 that, -626 +630 00:29:45,536 --> 00:29:51,415 like ... sometimes I would apply -to a job and like, have the +to a job and, like, have the -627 +631 00:29:51,415 --> 00:29:53,410 conversation with the hiring -manager, and then they would +manager and then they would -628 +632 00:29:53,410 --> 00:29:55,405 say, -629 +633 00:29:55,405 --> 00:29:57,355 "Okay, maybe you're not so much of a fit for this role per se, -630 +634 00:29:57,355 --> 00:29:59,305 but -631 +635 00:29:59,306 --> 00:30:00,970 we have something coming down the pipeline that you may be a -632 +636 00:30:00,970 --> 00:30:02,634 better -633 +637 00:30:02,641 --> 00:30:06,000 fit for." And it just kind of opened my eyes of like, "Oh," -634 +638 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,118 -like, "Wait a minute." Like, "I +like, "wait a minute." Like, "I just need to talk to people -635 +639 00:30:08,118 --> 00:30:09,700 [laughs]." -636 +640 00:30:09,700 --> 00:30:11,161 -Like, this is -- I +Like, this is-- I -637 +641 00:30:11,161 --> 00:30:13,363 feel like I unlocked the key. Like, I didn't know this before. -638 +642 00:30:13,363 --> 00:30:15,565 -But, +But-- -639 +643 00:30:16,076 --> 00:30:22,046 -yeah. Yeah. I would -- yeah. -That was ... very eye opening. +yeah. Yeah. I would-- yeah. That +was ... very eye opening. -640 +644 00:30:23,414 --> 00:30:25,125 Dan: So, the people you were reaching out to- -641 +645 00:30:25,154 --> 00:30:25,375 Sadie: Mm. -642 +646 00:30:26,714 --> 00:30:28,700 Dan: -wait. Explain to me again. Like, how you were choosing who -643 +647 00:30:28,700 --> 00:30:30,015 to reach out to? -644 +648 00:30:30,239 --> 00:30:34,288 -Sadie: So, I would -- okay. Say, +Sadie: So, I would-- okay. Say, I would find a role that was -645 +649 00:30:34,288 --> 00:30:38,159 interesting. So I would then go into LinkedIn, and search the -646 +650 00:30:38,159 --> 00:30:41,398 company name, and then, like, -quote hiring or manager or +quote hiring, or manager, or -647 +651 00:30:41,398 --> 00:30:44,637 -director or +director, or -648 +652 00:30:45,028 --> 00:30:46,483 -something -- like, some higher -up or someone that's gonna be in +something-- like, some higher up +or someone that's gonna be in -649 +653 00:30:46,483 --> 00:30:47,938 the, -650 +654 00:30:48,118 --> 00:30:52,800 like, hiring panel or something. And then I'd pick someone- -651 +655 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:53,000 Dan: Mm-hmm. -652 +656 00:30:53,500 --> 00:30:57,778 -Sadie: -whose title matched, and +Sadie: -whose title matched and then reach out to them. Yeah. -653 -00:30:58,608 --> 00:31:01,288 +657 +00:30:58,608 --> 00:30:59,948 Dan: Yeah, yeah. Okay. So you'd -find a- you'd find a job opening +find a-- you'd find a job -654 +658 +00:30:59,948 --> 00:31:01,288 +opening + +659 00:31:01,288 --> 00:31:02,808 -on a- on a board or something +on a-- on a board or something like that. And then- -655 +660 00:31:02,808 --> 00:31:03,000 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -656 +661 00:31:03,300 --> 00:31:03,814 Dan: -and then you'd -657 +662 00:31:03,814 --> 00:31:04,500 -do some homework and -- +do some homework and-- -658 +663 00:31:04,500 --> 00:31:05,000 Sadie: Mm-hmm [laughs]. -659 +664 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,679 Dan: Yeah, that's really cool. I love that. -660 +665 00:31:07,683 --> 00:31:08,910 -I like -- that's a great- that's -a great tip. I mean -- and I +I like-- that's a great-- that's +a great tip. I mean-- and I -661 +666 00:31:08,910 --> 00:31:10,137 think -662 +667 00:31:10,138 --> 00:31:12,069 -that's like a -- I mean, aside +that's like a-- I mean, aside from the sneakiness of it -663 +668 00:31:12,069 --> 00:31:14,000 [laughs]- -664 +669 00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:14,500 Sadie: Yeah [laughs]. -665 +670 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:15,239 Dan: -it seems like a -666 +671 00:31:15,239 --> 00:31:16,874 -really good, you know, a- a -- -like, connecting with people is +really good, you know, a- a-- +like, connecting with people -667 +672 00:31:16,874 --> 00:31:18,509 --- +is-- almost -668 +673 00:31:18,509 --> 00:31:21,118 -almost always a good thing, you -know what I mean? And- and like, +always a good thing, you know +what I mean? And- and, like, -669 +674 00:31:21,124 --> 00:31:24,700 -as long as, I assume, you're -- +as long as-- I assume, you're-- I'm sure you are doing it sort -670 +675 00:31:24,700 --> 00:31:27,568 of respectfully and with some knowledge, you know? And not -671 +676 00:31:27,568 --> 00:31:33,028 just blasting out the same thing -to everybody used -- you know, +to everybody used-- you know, -672 +677 00:31:33,118 --> 00:31:33,500 whatever- -673 +678 00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:33,700 Sadie: Yeah, yeah. -674 +679 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,929 Dan: -a million different people. Yeah, that's great. I -675 +680 00:31:36,929 --> 00:31:37,558 -love- I love that idea. +love-- I love that idea. -676 +681 00:31:38,249 --> 00:31:39,179 Sadie: Yeah. Yeah. -677 +682 00:31:40,749 --> 00:31:41,959 Bekah: It- it- it personalizes it, right? Because before, -678 +683 00:31:41,959 --> 00:31:43,169 -you're a +you're a name -679 +684 00:31:43,169 --> 00:31:47,489 -name on a sheet of a paper or an -internet form or whatever. But +on a sheet of a paper, or an +internet form, or whatever. But -680 +685 00:31:47,489 --> 00:31:49,469 now, there's more. There's a face to it, there's a voice to -681 +686 00:31:49,469 --> 00:31:51,449 who -682 +687 00:31:51,509 --> 00:31:55,199 -they're looking at. And then, +they're looking at. And then hiring managers or whoever can -683 +688 00:31:55,199 --> 00:31:58,048 make that connection, like, "Oh, okay. I know this person," you -684 +689 00:31:58,054 --> 00:32:00,509 know? Even if you haven't had an in depth conversation, there's -685 +690 00:32:00,509 --> 00:32:02,504 -something about like, oh, I- I -do -- there is already a +something about, like, "Oh, I- I +do ..." there is already a -686 +691 00:32:02,504 --> 00:32:04,499 connection -687 +692 00:32:04,499 --> 00:32:06,558 -there that makes it -- you're- +there that makes it-- you're- you're already a half, a step -688 +693 00:32:06,558 --> 00:32:08,617 -above -- in +above-- in -689 +694 00:32:08,798 --> 00:32:12,700 front of everybody else in that pile. And that, you know, that -690 +695 00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:14,300 can make the difference, you know? -691 +696 00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:14,500 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -692 +697 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,808 Bekah: So, is that the job that you're -693 +698 00:32:16,814 --> 00:32:18,311 currently at? Did that start with you reaching out to -694 +699 00:32:18,311 --> 00:32:19,808 somebody? -695 +700 00:32:20,354 --> 00:32:27,500 Sadie: No. It's funny. I- I saw -that job in like a- like a +that job in, like, a-- like, a -696 +701 00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:30,643 email list. It's called Words of -Mouth, I believe? And they post +Mouth, I believe? And they post, -697 +702 00:32:30,643 --> 00:32:32,952 -like all +like, all -698 +703 00:32:32,953 --> 00:32:34,753 -these cool jobs. But -- so, I -saw that one. And then I was +these cool jobs. But-- so, I saw +that one. And then I was -699 +704 00:32:34,753 --> 00:32:36,553 about to -700 +705 00:32:36,554 --> 00:32:38,714 reach out to someone when someone in my bootcamp at -701 +706 00:32:38,714 --> 00:32:40,874 Skillcrush -702 +707 00:32:40,874 --> 00:32:43,453 was like, "Hey, you should apply -to this job. Like, we've been +to this job." Like, "We've been -703 +708 00:32:43,453 --> 00:32:47,834 -talking, and they think that you +talking and they think that you might be a great fit." So I was -704 +709 00:32:47,834 --> 00:32:49,979 -like, "Okay," like, "Sweet," +like, "Okay," like, "sweet," like, "I just saw this job." So, -705 +710 00:32:49,979 --> 00:32:52,124 yeah. Like, -706 +711 00:32:52,124 --> 00:32:55,356 -it was, again, like that -community connection of like, +it was, again, like, that +community connection of, like, -707 +712 00:32:55,356 --> 00:32:58,588 -"Hey --," like, +"Hey ..." like-- -708 +713 00:32:58,709 --> 00:33:01,709 yeah. The community connection. -709 +714 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,000 Dan: That's really cool. -710 +715 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:02,489 -Bekah: That -- +Bekah: That-- -711 +716 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:03,300 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -712 +717 00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:05,200 Dan: So they had already heard of you before you even- -713 +718 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:05,459 Sadie: Yeah. -714 +719 00:33:05,459 --> 00:33:07,000 Dan: -chat? [Chuckles] Nice. -715 +720 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,000 Sadie: [Laughs] Yeah. Yeah. -716 +721 00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:10,924 Dan: [Laughs] Isn't it funny -that, the way that that works +that the way that that works -717 +722 00:33:10,924 --> 00:33:12,148 out, lots of -718 +723 00:33:12,148 --> 00:33:14,878 times, where you've done so many applications and stuff, and then -719 +724 00:33:14,878 --> 00:33:15,700 this- this one that actually works? -720 +725 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,200 Sadie: Right. [Laughs] Right. -721 +726 00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:18,269 Dan: Like, came about in some s- some -722 +727 00:33:18,269 --> 00:33:20,068 strange connection in some other way? -723 +728 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,000 Sadie: Yes [laughs]. -724 +729 00:33:20,500 --> 00:33:20,800 Dan: Yeah. -725 +730 00:33:21,058 --> 00:33:21,500 Sadie: Exactly. -726 +731 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:22,500 Dan: That's awesome. -727 +732 00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:22,788 Sadie: Exactly. -728 +733 00:33:23,983 --> 00:33:26,023 Bekah: One of my favorite things is when people reach out to me -729 +734 00:33:26,028 --> 00:33:27,703 and they're like, "Hey, do you know anybody that would be good -730 +735 00:33:27,703 --> 00:33:29,601 -for this job?" And then like, "I -can -- like, yes, I do," you +for this job?" And then, like, I +can-- like, "Yes, I do," you -731 +736 00:33:29,601 --> 00:33:31,499 know? -732 +737 00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:32,200 Sadie: Yes. Yes [laughs]. -733 +738 00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:34,211 Bekah: I think, like, I'm about to maybe submit my fifth -734 +739 00:33:34,211 --> 00:33:35,922 referral to -735 +740 00:33:35,923 --> 00:33:39,000 -somebody -- for somebody at -Deepgram. I just like -- +somebody-- for somebody at +Deepgram. I just, like-- -736 +741 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,300 [chuckles] eventually, somebody's gonna be a good fit- -737 +742 00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:41,700 Sadie: Yes. -738 +743 00:33:41,700 --> 00:33:43,163 Bekah: -and I'm gonna help them find it, you know [laughs]? -739 +744 00:33:43,598 --> 00:33:48,689 Sadie: Yeah. Yeah. You can never -know. Like, yeah. I- I can only +know. Like-- yeah. I- I can only -740 +745 00:33:48,689 --> 00:33:50,219 -imagine, or like, even in being -in that position of, like, +imagine or, like, even in-- +being in that position of, like, -741 +746 00:33:50,219 --> 00:33:51,749 someone -742 +747 00:33:51,753 --> 00:33:54,308 having referred me. Like, the gratitude, like, is -743 +748 00:33:54,308 --> 00:33:56,863 immeasurable. -744 +749 00:33:56,864 --> 00:34:00,614 -So, yeah. You're doing amazing +So yeah. You're doing amazing work, Bekah. -745 +750 00:34:01,364 --> 00:34:04,500 Bekah: Oh, thank you. I- I also like- -746 +751 00:34:04,500 --> 00:34:05,000 -Dan: Just to say -- oh, go -ahead. +Dan: Just to say-- oh, go ahead. -747 +752 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,884 Bekah: -well, I just wanna say, too, -748 +753 00:34:07,243 --> 00:34:10,034 when people reach out to me from -the community, and they're like, +the community and they're like, -749 +754 00:34:10,034 --> 00:34:11,774 "Hey, I wanna apply to this job. Would you mind, like, sending a -750 +755 00:34:11,774 --> 00:34:13,514 DM -751 +756 00:34:13,514 --> 00:34:16,634 on my behalf? Cuz I know you're connected with this person." -752 +757 00:34:16,634 --> 00:34:16,724 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -753 +758 00:34:16,724 --> 00:34:19,700 Bekah: And most times I do. Sometimes there are people that -754 +759 00:34:19,700 --> 00:34:20,173 I'm like, "I've -755 +760 00:34:20,173 --> 00:34:22,235 never been in a room with you or had a conversation with you -756 +761 00:34:22,235 --> 00:34:24,297 prior -757 +762 00:34:24,298 --> 00:34:28,378 to this point. So I just don't -feel comfortable with that. But, +feel comfortable with that. But -758 +763 00:34:28,409 --> 00:34:30,419 -if I know somebody, if I've --," -even it -- I would say, there +if I know somebody, if I've-- +even it ..." I would say, there -759 +764 00:34:30,419 --> 00:34:32,429 have been -760 +765 00:34:32,429 --> 00:34:35,909 people that I probably haven't been in the same breakout room -761 +766 00:34:35,909 --> 00:34:37,663 -with, but I ha -- would still +with, but I ha-- would still recommend because I see how they -762 +767 00:34:37,663 --> 00:34:39,417 interact -763 +768 00:34:39,423 --> 00:34:43,228 with other people in Slack or I've heard them talk to other -764 +769 00:34:43,233 --> 00:34:46,300 -people on a lunch and -- during -a Lunch and Learn or something +people on a lunch and-- during a +Lunch and Learn or something -765 +770 00:34:46,300 --> 00:34:48,568 like that. And I'm like, "Yeah, that person is awesome." Like, -766 +771 00:34:48,568 --> 00:34:50,397 they're -767 +772 00:34:50,398 --> 00:34:51,718 really patient, or they're really knowledgeable, or they're -768 +773 00:34:51,718 --> 00:34:53,038 really -769 +774 00:34:53,039 --> 00:34:56,548 great at teaching. And so I feel comfortable being able to pass -770 +775 00:34:56,548 --> 00:35:00,028 that along. And so, if somebody is looking and you do have a -771 +776 00:35:00,028 --> 00:35:04,000 connection to a community member that has a connection, then- -772 +777 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,739 then it's okay to reach out to them and ask them for a -773 +778 00:35:07,739 --> 00:35:11,700 recommendation. And I've even had people in the past, when I -774 +779 00:35:11,700 --> 00:35:16,700 was a teacher, say, "I need a -recommendation. Do you -- I +recommendation. Do you-- I -775 +780 00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:19,198 wrote it already. Would you send this?" [Laughs] I'm like, "All -776 +781 00:35:19,198 --> 00:35:21,313 right. I'm gonna -777 +782 00:35:21,313 --> 00:35:24,614 change it up a little bit to put -it in my voice, but I agree with +it in my voice but I agree with -778 +783 00:35:24,614 --> 00:35:25,500 everything you've said- -779 +784 00:35:25,500 --> 00:35:25,700 Sadie: Yes. -780 +785 00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:28,213 Bekah: -and it makes it easier on me. So, sure," you know? -781 +786 00:35:28,623 --> 00:35:28,844 Sadie: Yes. -782 +787 00:35:29,773 --> 00:35:31,244 Bekah: I don't think that's cheating. I think it's just -783 +788 00:35:31,248 --> 00:35:33,673 making it a little bit easier. And if the person feels -784 +789 00:35:33,673 --> 00:35:34,903 -comfortable sending it, than +comfortable sending it, then they will. -785 +790 00:35:35,594 --> 00:35:38,500 -Sadie: Exactly. And like, you +Sadie: Exactly. And, like, you can say what you wanna hype up -786 +791 00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:41,414 about yourself and then have -someone co-sign that. So, yeah. +someone co-sign that. So yeah. -787 +792 00:35:41,414 --> 00:35:41,773 Bekah: Yes. -788 +793 00:35:41,773 --> 00:35:42,443 Sadie: Absolutely. Mm-hmm. -789 +794 00:35:43,264 --> 00:35:46,168 Bekah: Dan, you were gonna say something and I -790 +795 00:35:46,168 --> 00:35:47,009 interrupted you. -791 +796 00:35:47,353 --> 00:35:52,000 Dan: Mm, yeah. What do you think it was? [Bekah and Sadie laugh] -792 +797 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,543 It was ... oh, no. I was just -793 +798 00:35:55,543 --> 00:35:57,208 gonna talk, like, hype [??] -about -- how networking -- you +about-- how networking-- you -794 +799 00:35:57,208 --> 00:35:58,873 know, like, -795 +800 00:35:58,873 --> 00:36:01,514 having a network of people that you know and could trust is- is -796 +801 00:36:01,518 --> 00:36:03,091 so important with all this stuff, you know? Cuz it's like -797 +802 00:36:03,091 --> 00:36:04,664 that you- -798 +803 00:36:04,664 --> 00:36:06,936 you found that reference. And I've had people both knew they -799 +804 00:36:06,936 --> 00:36:09,208 were -800 +805 00:36:09,208 --> 00:36:10,198 hiring and- and asked me, you -know? "Hey, are you looking for +know? "Hey, are you looking -801 +806 00:36:10,198 --> 00:36:11,188 --- +for-- -802 +807 00:36:11,188 --> 00:36:12,553 like, whatever you look for a job," or the same way as Bekah, -803 +808 00:36:12,553 --> 00:36:13,918 like, "Do -804 +809 00:36:13,918 --> 00:36:16,648 you know anybody that would fit -this role?" Like, "We're been -- +this role?" Like, "We're been-- -805 +810 00:36:16,849 --> 00:36:18,000 we're- we're looking to hire somebody." -806 +811 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:18,300 Sadie: Mm. -807 +812 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,579 Dan: It's the same kind of thing, -808 +813 00:36:20,579 --> 00:36:24,298 you know? And i-if I ... I love -being able to help people, but I +being able to help people but I -809 +814 00:36:24,304 --> 00:36:25,726 -also, like, I know, like I have --- just having a network, you +also, like, I know, like, I +have-- just having a network, -810 +815 00:36:25,726 --> 00:36:27,148 -know? +you know? -811 +816 00:36:27,148 --> 00:36:28,824 I have this, like, large safety net [chuckles], almost, you -812 +817 00:36:28,824 --> 00:36:30,500 know, of- -813 +818 00:36:30,500 --> 00:36:30,778 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -814 +819 00:36:30,778 --> 00:36:32,083 Dan: -if something fell- fell apart or whatever, you know? I- -815 +820 00:36:32,083 --> 00:36:33,388 I know I -816 +821 00:36:33,389 --> 00:36:35,361 have a bunch of people that I can, like, lean on for help, and -817 +822 00:36:35,361 --> 00:36:37,333 support, -818 +823 00:36:37,333 --> 00:36:40,664 -and stuff, in the future. So -- -I dunno. It's- it's cool. It's +and stuff, in the future. So-- I +dunno. It's- it's cool. It's -819 +824 00:36:40,664 --> 00:36:41,143 good stuff. -820 +825 00:36:41,378 --> 00:36:41,798 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -821 +826 00:36:41,798 --> 00:36:41,798 Bekah: Yeah. -822 +827 00:36:41,798 --> 00:36:44,035 -Dan: I -- all of my job, all -- +Dan: I-- all of my job, all-- [chuckles] sorry. So, I'm -823 +828 00:36:44,035 --> 00:36:46,272 independent. -824 +829 00:36:46,273 --> 00:36:49,300 But all of my, like, clients I've ever worked for are all -825 +830 00:36:49,300 --> 00:36:51,000 word of mouth, you know? -826 +831 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:51,200 Sadie: Wow. -827 +832 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:52,292 Dan: Like, connections of connections, stuff like that. -828 +833 00:36:52,292 --> 00:36:53,384 And -829 +834 00:36:53,384 --> 00:36:55,199 -it's always the -- you know, and -I- I work -- I have- I- I have a +it's always the-- you know, and +I- I work-- I have-- I- I have a -830 +835 00:36:55,199 --> 00:36:57,014 network -831 +836 00:36:57,014 --> 00:36:59,481 of people that do my kind of -work and ... it's always this -- +work and ... it's always this-- -832 +837 00:36:59,481 --> 00:37:01,948 it's -833 +838 00:37:01,949 --> 00:37:04,500 -always the -- those clients and --- are always the ones that are, +always the-- those clients and-- +are always the ones that are, -834 +839 00:37:04,500 --> 00:37:05,500 like, the best clients, you know what I mean? -835 +840 00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:05,700 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -836 +841 00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:07,349 Dan: As opposed to, like, the -cold +cold call -837 +842 00:37:07,349 --> 00:37:10,409 -call ones or like where there's -no connection at all before. And +ones or, like, where there's no +connection at all before. And -838 +843 00:37:10,469 --> 00:37:14,188 that's not to say it can never -work, obviously. But -- a-a-and +work, obviously. But-- a-a-and -839 +844 00:37:14,188 --> 00:37:15,658 those- those, like, word of mouth connections are only come -840 +845 00:37:15,658 --> 00:37:17,128 from, -841 +846 00:37:17,458 --> 00:37:19,033 you know, building a, like ... I -hate using [laughs], I don't +hate using [laughs]-- I don't -842 +847 00:37:19,033 --> 00:37:20,608 know. The word -843 -00:37:20,608 --> 00:37:23,000 -network is like -- it's got like -a bunch of weird connotations, +848 +00:37:20,608 --> 00:37:21,804 +network is, like-- it's got, +like, a bunch of weird -844 -00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,539 -you know? Cuz there's like a lot -of bad ways to do networking, +849 +00:37:21,804 --> 00:37:23,000 +connotations, -845 +850 +00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,269 +you know? Cuz there's, like, a +lot of bad ways to do + +851 +00:37:25,269 --> 00:37:27,538 +networking, + +852 00:37:27,539 --> 00:37:29,700 you know? [Sadie laughs] Like, -I've never like actively been +I've never, like, actively been -846 +853 00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:30,958 like, "I'm gonna go -847 +854 00:37:30,958 --> 00:37:34,168 network now," you know? But that's what you end up with, you -848 +855 00:37:34,168 --> 00:37:35,473 know, at different communities -and- and things that -- they +and- and things that-- they -849 +856 00:37:35,473 --> 00:37:36,778 really -850 +857 00:37:36,778 --> 00:37:40,300 are a network. It's- it's a good word that has been poisoned -851 +858 00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:43,200 by ... I don't know. Connotations- -852 +859 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:43,500 Bekah: [Laughs] Bad people. -853 +860 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,028 Dan: -of other- other things. Yeah. I dunno. -854 +861 00:37:45,568 --> 00:37:49,887 -But, anyway, that's all. Just to +But anyway, that's all. Just to say ... I don't know what -855 +862 00:37:49,887 --> 00:37:52,700 is to say other than the community is important [laughs]. -856 +863 00:37:52,700 --> 00:37:54,347 Welcome to Virtual Coffee Community Podcast [laughs]. -857 +864 00:37:56,307 --> 00:37:58,700 Bekah: Well, and community is a great way to gain experience -858 +865 00:37:58,700 --> 00:38:01,300 too, along with connections, you know? I know there's a bunch of -859 +866 00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:05,188 people that put Virtual Coffee experience on their resume. I -860 +867 00:38:05,193 --> 00:38:07,978 actually interviewed for a job a couple of years ago. And -861 +868 00:38:07,978 --> 00:38:09,800 while I was interviewing, they were like, "Oh, yeah. Somebody -862 +869 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:11,383 else from Virtual Coffee is interviewing too. We talked -863 +870 00:38:11,383 --> 00:38:12,538 about -864 +871 00:38:12,543 --> 00:38:13,800 it in the interview." And I'm -like [Sadie and Dan laugh] -- I +like [Sadie and Dan laugh]-- I -865 +872 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,438 still don't know who that person is. But -866 +873 00:38:16,438 --> 00:38:21,358 I'm like, "Huh, that's really interesting." I love it though, -867 +874 00:38:21,362 --> 00:38:23,427 you know? It's great. Like, everybody is giving back to the -868 -00:38:23,427 --> 00:38:28,527 -community in some way. And like, -if- if the -- their experience +875 +00:38:23,427 --> 00:38:25,977 +community in some way. And, +like, if- if the-- their -869 +876 +00:38:25,977 --> 00:38:28,527 +experience + +877 00:38:28,532 --> 00:38:31,800 doing the support that they do at Virtual Coffee leads to a -870 +878 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,588 job, I love it. I am 100% here for that. -871 +879 00:38:35,538 --> 00:38:37,648 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -872 +880 00:38:37,648 --> 00:38:39,958 Bekah: Now, okay. So you've gone on all these interviews, you've -873 +881 00:38:39,958 --> 00:38:44,000 -done all these things. And I -- +done all these things. And I-- we- we talked about how tough -874 +882 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,000 the interview scene is in tech. But are there any, like, good -875 +883 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,807 interview stories that you have or experiences that you're like, -876 +884 00:38:51,813 --> 00:38:53,878 "Well, I wouldn't mind having that one again." -877 +885 00:38:54,268 --> 00:38:57,147 Sadie: Right. Yeah. Ooh. I think, one that stood out to me -878 +886 00:38:57,147 --> 00:39:00,026 -was -- I +was-- I -879 +887 00:39:00,027 --> 00:39:03,807 think it was a two part. Like, the first interview was, like, -880 +888 00:39:03,807 --> 00:39:06,147 me gathering a whole bunch questions. And the space was set -881 +889 00:39:06,147 --> 00:39:08,487 up -882 +890 00:39:08,487 --> 00:39:11,668 -that, like, "This is your time -to ask us any questions that you +that like, "This is your time to +ask us any questions that you -883 +891 00:39:11,668 --> 00:39:15,700 have." And so I was super excited [chuckles] about the -884 +892 00:39:15,700 --> 00:39:16,947 -role on the team. So I +role on the team. So I had, -885 +893 00:39:16,947 --> 00:39:22,500 -had, like, a whole list of like -40 questions and put it [laughs] +like, a whole list of, like, 40 +questions and put it -886 +894 00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:22,858 --- it's really +[laughs]-- it's really -887 +895 00:39:22,862 --> 00:39:26,788 -embarrassing now. But I really --- I- I put it up on GitHub and, +embarrassing now. But I really-- +I- I put it up on GitHub, and, -888 +896 00:39:26,878 --> 00:39:29,458 like, created a repo of -questions and shared it with +questions, and shared it with -889 +897 00:39:29,458 --> 00:39:32,038 them. And -890 +898 00:39:32,038 --> 00:39:33,867 they're like, "Oh, this is so cool. And, like, a little -891 +899 00:39:33,867 --> 00:39:35,696 intimidated -892 +900 00:39:35,697 --> 00:39:38,000 now cuz you have all these questions prepared." [Laughs] -893 +901 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,288 -They were like -- but it worked +They were like-- but it worked -894 +902 00:39:40,288 --> 00:39:44,188 out cuz I- I passed to the next round. And that next round was -895 +903 00:39:44,188 --> 00:39:46,512 to present a project that I had -been working on in -- kinda like +been working on in-- kinda like -896 +904 00:39:46,512 --> 00:39:48,267 talk to -897 +905 00:39:48,268 --> 00:39:50,922 them about, like, the features -or like, why I built it, and +or, like, why I built it, and -898 +906 00:39:50,922 --> 00:39:53,576 have a -899 +907 00:39:53,577 --> 00:39:56,500 -discussion on like maybe how it -could be improved, and things +discussion on, like, maybe how +it could be improved, and things -900 +908 00:39:56,500 --> 00:40:00,972 like that. So I thought, like, -it was super collaborative and +it was super collaborative and, -901 +909 00:40:00,972 --> 00:40:06,853 like ... I don't wanna say low stakes, but it changed the ni- -902 +910 00:40:07,123 --> 00:40:10,393 dynamic. Cuz it wasn't like me getting a take-home, and then I -903 +911 00:40:10,398 --> 00:40:13,722 had to get familiar with one of the directions that they want me -904 +912 00:40:13,722 --> 00:40:15,267 to follow, and then also think of like, "Okay, how would I do -905 +913 00:40:15,267 --> 00:40:16,812 this?" -906 +914 00:40:16,813 --> 00:40:20,700 -And like -- it like -- it's not +And, like-- it, like-- it's not that. But it was a project that -907 +915 00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:21,762 -I had made, and +I had made, and, -908 +916 00:40:21,793 --> 00:40:24,418 like, was excited about, and wanted to talk to other people -909 +917 00:40:24,418 --> 00:40:27,043 about. And I -910 +918 00:40:27,047 --> 00:40:30,000 had an opportunity to see how they would collaborate with me -911 +919 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,208 -on projects, and like, how they -would give feedback. And -- I +on projects and, like, how they +would give feedback. And-- I -912 +920 00:40:33,208 --> 00:40:35,623 don't know. -913 +921 00:40:35,623 --> 00:40:42,822 It just felt like a- a more ... -like big picture view of the +like, big picture view of the -914 +922 00:40:42,822 --> 00:40:44,652 interviewer or- or of me. And -so, yeah, I would totally do +so-- yeah. I would totally do -915 +923 00:40:44,652 --> 00:40:46,482 that -916 +924 00:40:46,483 --> 00:40:48,222 again. Like, if all interviews could be like that [laughs]. -917 +925 00:40:49,887 --> 00:40:51,672 Dan: That's really cool. So, -they were -- so it was to +they were-- so it was to -918 +926 00:40:51,672 --> 00:40:53,457 -present some -- +present some-- -919 +927 00:40:53,458 --> 00:40:55,500 just any random project that you had been working on- -920 +928 00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:55,700 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -921 +929 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:56,637 Dan: -personally? Yeah, yeah. -922 +930 00:40:56,637 --> 00:40:56,800 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -923 +931 00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,000 Dan: That's awesome. I love that idea. -924 +932 00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:58,500 Sadie: Yeah. Me too. -925 +933 00:40:58,300 --> 00:41:00,297 -Dan: Cuz it gives you -- yeah. -It takes all the +Dan: Cuz it gives you-- yeah. It +takes all the -926 +934 00:41:00,297 --> 00:41:03,358 pressure off of the, like, learning some unfamiliar thing -927 +935 00:41:03,358 --> 00:41:07,588 -and -- but you can still see -- +and-- but you can still see-- having to present it like that -928 +936 00:41:07,588 --> 00:41:11,500 lets you sort of show off how, you know [chuckles], much you -929 +937 00:41:11,500 --> 00:41:12,373 know, or what, -930 +938 00:41:12,373 --> 00:41:14,262 like, the kinds of things you think about that, your thinking -931 +939 00:41:14,262 --> 00:41:16,422 process is, which is the kind of stuff that you really wanna know -932 +940 00:41:16,422 --> 00:41:17,000 when you're interviewing. -933 +941 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:17,300 Sadie: Exactly. -934 +942 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,083 -Dan: Anyway, as like an +Dan: Anyway, as, like, an interviewer, you don't -935 +943 00:41:20,083 --> 00:41:21,823 -wanna know -- I mean, I've -personally like -- it's like, +wanna know-- I mean, I've +personally, like-- it's, like-- -936 +944 00:41:21,823 --> 00:41:23,563 okay. -937 +945 00:41:23,568 --> 00:41:25,902 -There's like different skill -levels. People might -- like, +There's, like, different skill +levels. People might-- like, -938 +946 00:41:25,963 --> 00:41:28,092 nobody knows everything. People might have holes in their -939 +947 00:41:28,092 --> 00:41:31,932 knowledge. But the thing that you're always looking for is- -940 +948 00:41:31,963 --> 00:41:36,313 -is like, the ability to, like, +is, like, the ability to, like, think through problems and, you -941 +949 00:41:36,313 --> 00:41:42,657 know, sort of be able to constructively, like, talk about -942 +950 00:41:42,657 --> 00:41:44,000 things, right? [Dan and Sadie laugh] And- and if you're -943 +951 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:45,327 talking about your own work, then -944 +952 00:41:45,327 --> 00:41:47,188 -you don't have to -- you know, +you don't have to-- you know, then you don't have the whole -945 +953 00:41:47,188 --> 00:41:49,500 -step of like, learning what it +step of, like, learning what it was and trying to guess what -946 +954 00:41:49,500 --> 00:41:50,000 they were thinking or all of that- -947 +955 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:50,300 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -948 +956 00:41:50,100 --> 00:41:52,239 -Dan: -stuff, right? You know- +Dan: -stuff, right? You know-- you know what you were -949 +957 00:41:52,244 --> 00:41:53,300 thinking [laughs], right? -950 +958 00:41:53,300 --> 00:41:53,500 Sadie: Exactly. -951 +959 00:41:53,700 --> 00:41:55,947 -Dan: Or like, maybe you know, +Dan: Or, like, maybe you know, but maybe you remember -952 +960 00:41:55,947 --> 00:41:57,000 -what you were thinking, but -- +what you were thinking, but-- -953 +961 00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:57,500 Sadie: Exactly. -954 +962 00:41:57,500 --> 00:41:58,588 -Dan: I like -- that's a great +Dan: I like-- that's a great idea. I -955 +963 00:41:58,588 --> 00:42:02,668 -like- I like that. I- I don't +like-- I like that. I- I don't think I'm ever gonna hire -956 +964 00:42:02,668 --> 00:42:05,608 -anybody, but I- I always like -- -I love when I hear about things +anybody but I- I always like-- I +love when I hear about things -957 +965 00:42:05,608 --> 00:42:06,807 -like that. That are like a +like that. That are, like, a little bit different than -958 +966 00:42:06,807 --> 00:42:08,006 everybody, you -959 +967 00:42:08,007 --> 00:42:11,847 know, than- than the usual -thing. And I take notes of 'em, +thing. And I take notes of 'em -960 +968 00:42:11,847 --> 00:42:17,789 but ... yeah. That's nice. That's a cool one. Okay. So you -961 +969 00:42:17,789 --> 00:42:19,259 -said -- I'm gonna jump all the +said-- I'm gonna jump all the way to the now times. You said -962 +970 00:42:19,259 --> 00:42:20,729 you -963 +971 00:42:20,730 --> 00:42:22,589 work for a federal agency and you do front-end development. -964 +972 00:42:22,589 --> 00:42:24,448 -That -- I +That-- I -965 +973 00:42:24,449 --> 00:42:27,599 think that's really interesting. -So are there -- well, I guess my +So are there-- well, I guess my -966 +974 00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:29,909 -question is like, can you -- are +question is, like, can you-- are you able to talk a little bit -967 +975 00:42:29,909 --> 00:42:33,329 about what that's like? Like, working in a government agency, -968 +976 00:42:33,329 --> 00:42:34,986 especially doing front end -stuff? I- I mean, I -- that +stuff? I- I mean, I-- that -969 +977 00:42:34,986 --> 00:42:36,643 makes me think of, -970 +978 00:42:36,644 --> 00:42:39,135 like, rules and, you know, "Oh, -you have to -- like, a bunch of +you have to-- like, a bunch of -971 +979 00:42:39,135 --> 00:42:40,700 regulations you have to follow," or something like that. And -972 +980 00:42:40,700 --> 00:42:40,816 maybe that's not- -973 +981 00:42:40,700 --> 00:42:41,000 Bekah: Forms and aliens [chuckles]? -974 +982 00:42:40,750 --> 00:42:42,822 -Dan: -the case, but like I -- -[laughs] or, yeah. Or Bekah is +Dan: -the case but, like, I-- +[laughs] or-- yeah. Or Bekah is -975 +983 00:42:42,822 --> 00:42:44,894 gonna- gonna -976 +984 00:42:44,900 --> 00:42:48,014 call DARPA and, you know, get -the aliens coming. But I just +the aliens coming. But I just, -977 +985 00:42:48,014 --> 00:42:49,105 -like would like to hear about +like, would like to hear about it. I'm just curious. -978 +986 00:42:49,514 --> 00:42:53,505 -Sadie: Yeah. That's- that's -- +Sadie: Yeah. That's- that's-- yeah. Yeah. So I just started in -979 +987 00:42:53,655 --> 00:42:57,255 April. So I'm still trying to wrap up, like, what can I do and -980 +988 00:42:57,255 --> 00:43:03,251 what can't I do? But from my -understanding, that, all federal +understanding, that all federal -981 +989 00:43:03,251 --> 00:43:06,641 websites need to follow a set of standards called the US Web -982 +990 00:43:06,641 --> 00:43:09,896 Design Standard. And it's -something that's created by, I +something that's created by-- I -983 +991 00:43:09,896 --> 00:43:13,151 believe by -984 +992 00:43:14,021 --> 00:43:18,551 -18F? They are like another, -like, kinda like agency — not +18F? They are, like, another, +like, kinda like agency — not, -985 +993 00:43:18,551 --> 00:43:23,081 -like +like, -986 +994 00:43:23,081 --> 00:43:28,000 -agency, like, big agency — but +agency, like, big agency — but, like, they create the standards -987 +995 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,566 for websites across federal -agencies, if I understand +agencies if I understand -988 +996 00:43:30,566 --> 00:43:32,410 correctly. But -989 +997 00:43:32,411 --> 00:43:34,594 anyways, the US Web Design -System, it's kind of like- kind +System, it's kind of like-- kind -990 +998 00:43:34,594 --> 00:43:36,777 of like -991 +999 00:43:36,777 --> 00:43:40,737 Bootstrap where you put your classes into the HTML to make -992 +1000 00:43:40,737 --> 00:43:42,671 sure that the website is accessible. So, like, button -993 +1001 00:43:42,671 --> 00:43:44,605 -sizes, +sizes, and, -994 +1002 00:43:44,606 --> 00:43:48,000 -and like screen sizes, and media +like, screen sizes, and media queries, and things like that -995 +1003 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,626 are all sort of set by these standards, and you just kind of -996 +1004 00:43:51,626 --> 00:43:57,117 drop it into the HTML. Yeah. I'm -still trying to learn that, +still trying to learn that -997 +1005 00:43:57,476 --> 00:44:01,151 but ... yeah. Outside of that, like, I- I haven't played too -998 +1006 00:44:01,151 --> 00:44:04,826 much outside of -999 +1007 00:44:04,827 --> 00:44:08,697 -that. And like, tried to really -customize the website per se, +that. And, like, tried to really +customize the website per se -1000 +1008 00:44:08,757 --> 00:44:15,117 because I inherited this- this website and the properties -1001 +1009 00:44:15,121 --> 00:44:20,000 -for the- for the agency. And so +for the-- for the agency. And so I don't have the really built -1002 +1010 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,000 out too much, like, by hand. -1003 +1011 00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:22,700 Dan: Right. -1004 +1012 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,481 Sadie: Which is ... good and -bad? [Laughs] But -- +bad? [Laughs] But-- -1005 +1013 00:44:26,952 --> 00:44:28,632 Dan: Well, I mean, like, over -time you'll -- yeah. +time you'll-- yeah. -1006 +1014 00:44:29,021 --> 00:44:33,000 Sadie: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It'll -take some time. But, yeah. That +take some time. But, yeah. -1007 +1015 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,371 --- that's what I'm finding most -interesting. It seems like +That-- that's what I'm finding +most interesting. It seems like -1008 +1016 00:44:36,731 --> 00:44:41,532 Jekyll is very favored. And -also, a-all of -- not all. But a +also, a-all of-- not all. But a -1009 +1017 00:44:41,532 --> 00:44:46,271 lot of the websites are on GitHub. So you can actually see, -1010 +1018 00:44:46,302 --> 00:44:50,021 like, how these sites are built. And if you want to, like, poke -1011 +1019 00:44:50,021 --> 00:44:53,056 around, like, it's all there. Yeah. -1012 +1020 00:44:53,487 --> 00:44:54,327 Dan: Nice. That's cool. -1013 +1021 00:44:54,527 --> 00:44:57,416 Sadie: Yeah [laughs]. Yeah. Yeah. -1014 +1022 00:44:58,211 --> 00:44:59,291 -Bekah: So you -- you're using a +Bekah: So you-- you're using a lot of Jekyll? Is that what you -1015 +1023 00:44:59,291 --> 00:45:00,371 said? -1016 +1024 00:45:00,617 --> 00:45:02,126 Sadie: Yeah. It's Jekyll. Yeah [laughs]. -1017 +1025 00:45:02,552 --> 00:45:02,972 Bekah: That's interesting. -1018 +1026 00:45:03,936 --> 00:45:04,226 Sadie: Yeah. -1019 +1027 00:45:05,831 --> 00:45:08,156 -Bekah: I -- both of my blogs are +Bekah: I-- both of my blogs are using Jekyll because I'm not -1020 +1028 00:45:08,156 --> 00:45:10,481 really -1021 +1029 00:45:10,481 --> 00:45:13,500 even sure [chuckles] that's the direction I went when I first -1022 +1030 00:45:13,500 --> 00:45:13,871 started. And so -1023 +1031 00:45:13,876 --> 00:45:16,129 I just kept going with it. And I feel like Jekyll — this is a -1024 +1032 00:45:16,129 --> 00:45:18,382 Jekyll -1025 +1033 00:45:18,402 --> 00:45:20,500 -tangent — I love using Jekyll, +tangent — I love using Jekyll but I feel like their -1026 +1034 00:45:20,500 --> 00:45:22,500 documentation is terrible. -1027 +1035 00:45:22,500 --> 00:45:23,000 Sadie: Mm. Mm-hmm. -1028 +1036 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,711 Bekah: And I keep hearing people -that love Jekyll they're +that love Jekyll, they're -1029 +1037 00:45:25,711 --> 00:45:28,211 like, "But their community is great. So you can ask lots of -1030 +1038 00:45:28,211 --> 00:45:31,300 questions and they'll get answered." But I- I just want to -1031 +1039 00:45:31,300 --> 00:45:32,512 read it in the -1032 +1040 00:45:32,512 --> 00:45:35,700 documentation. Just, like, explain this to me. -1033 +1041 00:45:35,700 --> 00:45:36,000 Sadie: [Laughs] Right. -1034 +1042 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:37,581 Bekah: But also, I've never, like, -1035 +1043 00:45:37,581 --> 00:45:39,261 contributed to their -documentation. So, that's also +documentation. So that's also -1036 +1044 00:45:39,261 --> 00:45:40,941 ... -1037 +1045 00:45:42,021 --> 00:45:43,056 something I should probably do instead of complaining about it -1038 +1046 00:45:43,056 --> 00:45:44,091 [laughs]. -1039 +1047 00:45:45,146 --> 00:45:48,567 Sadie: I hear that [laughs]. Yeah. I feel that. -1040 +1048 00:45:48,581 --> 00:45:49,481 Dan: You can complain once in a while. -1041 +1049 00:45:51,442 --> 00:45:53,032 Bekah: That's it. I'm done my Jekyll rant. Sorry. -1042 +1050 00:45:54,472 --> 00:45:55,492 -Dan: Oh, man. I- I just -- -that's very interesting. I mean, +Dan: Oh, man. I- I just-- that's +very interesting. I mean, -1043 +1051 00:45:55,492 --> 00:45:56,512 I've -1044 +1052 00:45:56,512 --> 00:45:57,937 -done -- I've concentrated on the +done-- I've concentrated on the front end for, you know, my -1045 +1053 00:45:57,937 --> 00:45:59,362 whole -1046 +1054 00:45:59,367 --> 00:46:03,411 -career. And so -- but I've never +career. And so-- but I've never worked with anything, you know, -1047 +1055 00:46:03,442 --> 00:46:05,547 that have any external standards that anybody's looking at in -1048 +1056 00:46:05,547 --> 00:46:07,652 -the- +the-- -1049 +1057 00:46:07,652 --> 00:46:09,177 -in the code. You know what I -mean? You -- we try to, like, be +in the code, you know what I +mean? You-- we try to, like, be -1050 +1058 00:46:09,177 --> 00:46:10,702 ex- as, -1051 +1059 00:46:10,702 --> 00:46:11,976 like, accessible as possible and -every- you know, all that stuff, +every- you know, all that stuff -1052 +1060 00:46:11,976 --> 00:46:13,250 but -1053 +1061 00:46:13,251 --> 00:46:15,771 it's always just me that's doing those and en-enforcing it on -1054 +1062 00:46:15,771 --> 00:46:18,291 myself -1055 +1063 00:46:18,291 --> 00:46:19,326 or whatever, you know, or- or any teammates that I'm working -1056 +1064 00:46:19,326 --> 00:46:20,361 with. -1057 +1065 00:46:20,362 --> 00:46:21,816 -But it- it's never coming down +But it-- it's never coming down from above, you know what I -1058 +1066 00:46:21,816 --> 00:46:23,270 mean? -1059 +1067 00:46:23,271 --> 00:46:23,391 Sadie: Mm. -1060 +1068 00:46:23,391 --> 00:46:25,300 Dan: And so, that's- that's, like, gotta be in- a really -1061 +1069 00:46:25,300 --> 00:46:29,300 interesting experience to be in that role- -1062 +1070 00:46:29,300 --> 00:46:29,500 Sadie: Mm-hmm. -1063 +1071 00:46:29,500 --> 00:46:31,791 Dan: -you know? And ... that's -1064 +1072 00:46:31,791 --> 00:46:34,161 -awesome that they're -- that -they are doing to open source +awesome that they're-- that they +are doing to open source -1065 +1073 00:46:34,161 --> 00:46:35,902 stuff. That's really cool. -1066 +1074 00:46:36,262 --> 00:46:40,000 Sadie: Yes. Yeah. There's a lot of open source of projects from -1067 +1075 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:40,672 the government [chuckles]. -1068 +1076 00:46:41,512 --> 00:46:42,802 Dan: That's awesome. Yeah. That- that makes me, like, wonder. -1069 +1077 00:46:42,802 --> 00:46:44,092 Yeah, -1070 +1078 00:46:44,097 --> 00:46:46,500 -just now [laughs] -- you know, -I- I always just assume that +just now [laughs]-- you know, I- +I always just assume that -1071 +1079 00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:47,452 it's all, like, locked -1072 +1080 00:46:47,452 --> 00:46:50,000 -down, and it's all, whatever -- +down, and it's all, whatever-- super- -1073 +1081 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:50,300 Bekah: DARPA? -1074 +1082 00:46:50,300 --> 00:46:52,342 Dan: -custom, you know, DARPA- -1075 +1083 00:46:52,431 --> 00:46:56,000 DARPA static sites. But no, they're just open source. I see -1076 +1084 00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,442 some Jekyll. That's awesome. -1077 +1085 00:46:57,672 --> 00:46:58,161 Sadie: [Laughs] Exactly. -1078 +1086 00:46:58,311 --> 00:47:02,000 Dan: That's so cool [laughs]. Yeah. Mm. That's cool. Thank you -1079 +1087 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,681 -for sharing about that. That -- -I find that really interesting. +for sharing about that. That-- I +find that really interesting. -1080 +1088 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:05,300 Sadie: Yeah. -1081 +1089 00:47:06,556 --> 00:47:07,936 -Bekah: Where -- what do you like +Bekah: Where-- what do you like best about your job? -1082 +1090 00:47:08,822 --> 00:47:12,632 Sadie: Ooh, that's a good question. I don't know. I feel -1083 +1091 00:47:12,632 --> 00:47:16,981 like I'm- I'm gonna get kind of meta. But that I am at a federal -1084 +1092 00:47:17,192 --> 00:47:21,271 agency [laughs], it feels like it completes, like, a cycle or -1085 +1093 00:47:21,271 --> 00:47:23,821 -something, because my -grandmother and my grandfather +something because my grandmother +and my grandfather -1086 +1094 00:47:23,821 --> 00:47:26,371 were both in -1087 +1095 00:47:26,371 --> 00:47:29,551 the army. And my uncles were in, like, the army and marines. My -1088 +1096 00:47:29,551 --> 00:47:32,731 mom -1089 +1097 00:47:32,731 --> 00:47:36,931 retired military, like, retired air force. And so I grew up in -1090 +1098 00:47:36,931 --> 00:47:41,822 the military family and always, like, had that, like, "Ooh, am I -1091 +1099 00:47:41,827 --> 00:47:43,864 gonna join the military or not?" Or, "Am I gonna be, like -1092 +1100 00:47:43,864 --> 00:47:45,901 [chuckles], -1093 +1101 00:47:45,902 --> 00:47:47,431 a contractor or something?" And I always felt like, "Nah, that's -1094 +1102 00:47:47,431 --> 00:47:48,960 not -1095 +1103 00:47:48,961 --> 00:47:52,501 -for me. Nah, that's not- that's +for me. Nah, that's not-- that's not what I'm gonna do." And I'm -1096 +1104 00:47:52,501 --> 00:47:55,636 here. Like, I'm- I'm a -contractor now. Like [laughs] -- +contractor now. Like [laughs]-- -1097 +1105 00:47:55,636 --> 00:47:58,771 so, it's -1098 +1106 00:47:59,282 --> 00:48:01,592 just like, "Oh, wow." Like, "A family cycles are- are a thing." -1099 +1107 00:48:03,407 --> 00:48:05,000 Bekah: That's such a great story. -1100 +1108 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:05,300 Sadie: Thank you [laughs]. -1101 +1109 00:48:05,300 --> 00:48:05,500 Dan: Yeah, it's really cool. -1102 +1110 00:48:05,500 --> 00:48:06,500 Bekah: I loved that. -1103 +1111 00:48:06,871 --> 00:48:09,841 Sadie: Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny. Yeah. Like ... yeah, my -1104 +1112 00:48:09,841 --> 00:48:12,811 mom -1105 +1113 00:48:12,811 --> 00:48:16,546 retired, like, two months out -from my 18th birthday. So like, +from my 18th birthday. So, like, -1106 +1114 00:48:16,546 --> 00:48:20,281 it's, like, the -1107 +1115 00:48:20,282 --> 00:48:22,576 military and, like, that connection is just like a part -1108 +1116 00:48:22,576 --> 00:48:24,870 of my -1109 +1117 00:48:24,876 --> 00:48:27,842 -identity. And like, I feel like +identity. And, like, I feel like that's something that, like, not -1110 +1118 00:48:27,842 --> 00:48:30,046 -too many people know. It's like, -I -- like, I'm- I'm, like, +too many people know. It's like +I-- like, I'm- I'm, like, -1111 +1119 00:48:30,046 --> 00:48:32,250 looking -1112 +1120 00:48:32,251 --> 00:48:33,406 around right now — you can't see this — but, like, where I am -1113 +1121 00:48:33,406 --> 00:48:34,561 right -1114 +1122 00:48:34,561 --> 00:48:39,001 now, I grew up actually on the military base. Like, that's -1115 +1123 00:48:39,001 --> 00:48:42,751 probably, like, five miles away -from my house. And, I don't +from my house. And-- I don't -1116 +1124 00:48:42,751 --> 00:48:44,761 know. It was just a lot of like, "Wow," like- like, I've always -1117 +1125 00:48:44,761 --> 00:48:46,771 been -1118 +1126 00:48:46,771 --> 00:48:49,351 -aware of contractors and like +aware of contractors and, like ... just that relationship, but -1119 +1127 00:48:49,351 --> 00:48:51,931 just -1120 +1128 00:48:52,442 --> 00:48:54,136 now being on the other side and saying like, "Oh," like, "Huh, -1121 +1129 00:48:54,136 --> 00:48:55,830 this -1122 +1130 00:48:55,831 --> 00:48:58,700 -is how- this is how it works." -And like, I can also see, like, +is how-- this is how it works." +And, like, I can also see, like, -1123 -00:48:58,700 --> 00:49:02,791 +1131 +00:48:58,700 --> 00:49:00,745 how intense it is to be in the -military and like the- the sort +military and, like, the- the -1124 +1132 +00:49:00,745 --> 00:49:02,790 +sort + +1133 00:49:02,791 --> 00:49:05,491 of, like, expectations you have to fulfill that role. Like- -1125 +1134 00:49:05,491 --> 00:49:08,191 like, I -1126 +1135 00:49:08,192 --> 00:49:11,700 came into this job thinking -like, "Oh," like, "Now I can't, +like, "Oh," like, "now I can't, -1127 +1136 00:49:11,700 --> 00:49:16,000 like, [chuckles] be late for my job. Or I can't, like, take- -1128 +1137 00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,092 [chuckles] take off work." Because -1129 +1138 00:49:18,092 --> 00:49:25,081 that's what I saw my mom, like, having to, like ... I guess -1130 +1139 00:49:25,081 --> 00:49:27,136 fulfill or, like, be secure in -her job, but that's -- it's not +her job but that's-- it's not -1131 +1140 00:49:27,136 --> 00:49:29,191 like -1132 +1141 00:49:29,192 --> 00:49:31,396 that at all. Like, I- I have a wonderful team that, like, -1133 +1142 00:49:31,396 --> 00:49:33,600 respects -1134 +1143 00:49:33,601 --> 00:49:37,561 -work life balance and like, -people have kids, and like, they +work life balance, and, like, +people have kids, and, like, -1135 +1144 00:49:37,561 --> 00:49:40,862 -understand, like, you know, +they understand, like, you know, today's not the day, like, just -1136 +1145 00:49:40,862 --> 00:49:43,082 come back tomorrow, and it'll be okay. Like, that sort of thing. -1137 +1146 00:49:43,082 --> 00:49:45,302 -So, +So yeah. -1138 +1147 00:49:45,306 --> 00:49:48,229 -yeah. It- it's a -- it's really -deep. But, yeah. That's my +It-- it's a-- it's really deep. +But-- yeah. That's my -1139 +1148 00:49:48,229 --> 00:49:51,152 answer [chuckles]. -1140 +1149 00:49:53,266 --> 00:49:55,577 Bekah: I like that. I mean, there's- there's familiarity -1141 +1150 00:49:55,577 --> 00:49:57,181 there, right? And then there's comfort that comes with that. -1142 +1151 00:49:57,181 --> 00:49:58,785 And -1143 +1152 00:49:59,086 --> 00:50:02,700 when you're talking about taking on a new job, it's really nice -1144 +1153 00:50:02,700 --> 00:50:05,686 to be able to have something like that, where you can feel -1145 +1154 00:50:05,686 --> 00:50:07,547 comfortable in some aspect of what you're doing. -1146 +1155 00:50:08,251 --> 00:50:11,311 Sadie: Right. Exactly. Exactly. -1147 +1156 00:50:14,086 --> 00:50:18,047 Bekah: Well, we're at just about time here. Is- is there any last -1148 +1157 00:50:18,047 --> 00:50:22,217 piece of advice you have for our listeners who are prepping for -1149 +1158 00:50:22,277 --> 00:50:26,117 interviews or leaving bootcamps and about to discover the next -1150 +1159 00:50:26,117 --> 00:50:27,047 stage of their journey? -1151 +1160 00:50:27,467 --> 00:50:33,300 -Sadie: Ooh, that's -- okay. I +Sadie: Ooh, that's-- okay. I could say so much. But [laughs] -1152 +1161 00:50:33,300 --> 00:50:33,646 I hate to say, -1153 +1162 00:50:33,646 --> 00:50:37,157 -like, something trite, but like, +like, something trite but, like, also, like, one, trust the -1154 +1163 00:50:37,161 --> 00:50:42,436 -process. And then two, you know +process. And then, two, you know more than you think. Like, for -1155 +1164 00:50:42,436 --> 00:50:45,677 example, I didn't know Jekyll at all when I was interviewing for -1156 +1165 00:50:45,677 --> 00:50:48,294 this job. But, one, I reached -out to my community. So, if you +out to my community. So if you -1157 +1166 00:50:48,294 --> 00:50:50,911 need a -1158 +1167 00:50:50,911 --> 00:50:55,442 community, find your community. -VC's here, but there's also +VC's here but there's also -1159 +1168 00:50:55,442 --> 00:51:00,121 -others. And then two, like, do +others. And then, two, like, do what you can, explain what you- -1160 +1169 00:51:00,302 --> 00:51:03,121 -what you did and, like, your +what you did, and, like, your thought processes. And if it's -1161 +1170 00:51:03,121 --> 00:51:06,302 not the fit, it's not a fit. But you will find your job and you -1162 +1171 00:51:06,302 --> 00:51:06,661 can do it. -1163 +1172 00:51:07,021 --> 00:51:08,552 Dan: I love that. Trust the process. -1164 +1173 00:51:10,262 --> 00:51:12,552 Bekah: Yeah, I love that. Thanks so much, Sadie, for being here -1165 +1174 00:51:12,811 --> 00:51:15,661 with us today. We've grabbed all the links for the stuff that you -1166 +1175 00:51:15,661 --> 00:51:18,661 dropped, including your blog post on technical test -1167 +1176 00:51:18,722 --> 00:51:22,700 preparation advice, and we'll put those in the show notes. And -1168 +1177 00:51:22,700 --> 00:51:23,431 so, thanks for being here. -1169 +1178 00:51:23,851 --> 00:51:24,500 Sadie: Yay. Thank you. -1170 +1179 00:51:24,500 --> 00:51:25,000 Dan: Thanks, Sadie. -1171 +1180 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:26,311 Sadie: Thank you all. Thank you. -1172 +1181 00:51:30,329 --> 00:51:32,429 Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual -1173 +1182 00:51:32,429 --> 00:51:36,175 Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah -1174 +1183 00:51:36,175 --> 00:51:38,953 Hawrot Weigel. If you have questions or comments, you can -1175 +1184 00:51:38,954 --> 00:51:41,965 hit us up on Twitter at -VirtualCoffeeIO, or email us at +VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at -1176 +1185 00:51:41,965 --> 00:51:43,699 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up -1177 +1186 00:51:43,699 --> 00:51:45,433 for -1178 +1187 00:51:45,434 --> 00:51:47,474 the newsletter, check out any of our other resources on our -1179 +1188 00:51:47,474 --> 00:51:50,864 website, virtualcoffee.io. If you're interested in sponsoring -1180 +1189 00:51:50,864 --> 00:51:53,264 Virtual Coffee, you can find out more information on our website -1181 +1190 00:51:53,534 --> 00:51:57,974 at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. -Please subscribe to our podcast, +Please subscribe to our podcast -1182 +1191 00:51:58,005 --> 00:52:01,215 and be sure to leave us a review. Thanks for listening, -1183 +1192 00:52:01,215 --> 00:52:02,054 and we'll see you next week! \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/episodes/6_5.srt b/episodes/6_5.srt index 89833c8..514f88f 100644 --- a/episodes/6_5.srt +++ b/episodes/6_5.srt @@ -51,7 +51,7 @@ share it with 12 00:00:28,431 --> 00:00:30,830 you here with me. Today is my -cohost, Dan. +co-host, Dan. 13 00:00:34,201 --> 00:00:39,831 @@ -60,8 +60,8 @@ laughs] How is it going today? 14 00:00:40,371 --> 00:00:43,191 -Bekah: Just never know- never -know what -- how you're going to +Bekah: Just never know-- never +know what-- how you're going to 15 00:00:43,191 --> 00:00:49,070 @@ -92,8 +92,8 @@ Bekah: Who is also awesome. 21 00:01:00,276 --> 00:01:02,000 -Dan: He's a software -- he is -also awesome. Yeah. We -- that's +Dan: He's a software-- he is +also awesome. Yeah. We-- that's 22 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,000 @@ -123,13 +123,13 @@ Bekah: Yeah. 28 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,275 -Dan: But yeah, he's a -- Chad's -a software +Dan: But yeah, he's a-- Chad's a +software 29 00:01:09,275 --> 00:01:13,865 engineer from Kingston, Jamaica. -And, yeah, we had a good time +And-- yeah, we had a good time 30 00:01:13,865 --> 00:01:17,135 @@ -147,7 +147,7 @@ Bekah: Project? 33 00:01:23,135 --> 00:01:25,000 -Dan: -he's got a newsletter -- +Dan: -he's got a newsletter-- his sort of project. Yeah. 34 @@ -157,7 +157,7 @@ Called Tech 35 00:01:25,536 --> 00:01:29,700 is Hiring. And ... I don't know. -He told us a lot about- a lot +He told us a lot about-- a lot 36 00:01:29,700 --> 00:01:30,305 @@ -201,6324 +201,5994 @@ this?" And he just went with that. 45 -00:01:48,006 --> 00:01:49,415 +00:01:48,006 --> 00:01:50,824 And I think that's a really great way to find inspiration 46 -00:01:49,415 --> 00:01:50,824 -and - -47 00:01:50,831 --> 00:01:52,475 -energy from the things that +and energy from the things that you're doing. -48 +47 00:01:53,700 --> 00:01:55,495 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's always good to talk to -49 +48 00:01:55,495 --> 00:01:57,290 Chad. -50 +49 00:01:57,290 --> 00:01:59,322 He's- he's very funny. He's- he's one of our main -51 +50 00:01:59,322 --> 00:02:01,354 contributors to -52 +51 00:02:01,355 --> 00:02:04,000 our humor channel [Bekah and Dan chuckle] in- in- in our Slack. -53 +52 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,575 And yeah, it- it was -54 +53 00:02:07,115 --> 00:02:09,725 fascinating hearing about his- his experience with all that -55 +54 00:02:09,725 --> 00:02:11,705 -stuff. And with the- the Open -Sauced. That was the other -- +stuff. And with the- the +OpenSauced. That was the other-- -56 +55 00:02:11,705 --> 00:02:14,000 that's the big project that he -volunteers with -- +volunteers with-- -57 +56 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:14,316 contributes with. -58 +57 00:02:14,915 --> 00:02:18,485 And he talked a lot about how you don't have to be writing -59 +58 00:02:18,485 --> 00:02:23,015 code to contribute to an open -source project. And I -- both +source project. And I-- both -60 +59 00:02:23,015 --> 00:02:25,000 agree with that [chuckles] very much and- and appreciate the- -61 +60 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,366 the way he talked about his experiences with that. -62 +61 00:02:28,776 --> 00:02:31,985 Bekah: Yeah. And we start this episode of podcast like -63 +62 00:02:31,985 --> 00:02:34,866 we start every Virtual Coffee. We introduce ourselves with our -64 +63 00:02:34,866 --> 00:02:37,776 name, where we're from, what we do, and a random check-in -65 +64 00:02:37,776 --> 00:02:49,097 question. We hope you enjoy this episode. Our random check-in -66 -00:02:49,097 --> 00:02:50,942 +65 +00:02:49,097 --> 00:02:52,787 question is, if you could have any animal for a pet, what would -67 -00:02:50,942 --> 00:02:52,787 -it - -68 +66 00:02:52,787 --> 00:02:52,997 -be? +it be? -69 +67 00:02:53,627 --> 00:02:54,187 Chad Stewart: Cheetah. -70 +68 00:02:56,266 --> 00:02:56,956 Bekah: [Chuckles] Not yet. -71 +69 00:02:57,676 --> 00:02:57,977 Chad: [Dan laughs] Oh. -72 +70 00:02:58,847 --> 00:03:00,887 Bekah: And how is it not a penguin? That's what I wanna -73 +71 00:03:00,887 --> 00:03:01,037 know. -74 +72 00:03:01,306 --> 00:03:05,796 Chad: I like cheetahs. It'd be cheetah or a peregrine falcon. -75 +73 00:03:05,796 --> 00:03:07,157 Those are my favorite animals. -76 +74 00:03:07,157 --> 00:03:08,602 Dan: Mm. -77 +75 00:03:08,602 --> 00:03:10,597 Bekah: All right. My name is Bekah. I am a technical -78 +76 00:03:10,597 --> 00:03:12,592 community -79 +77 00:03:12,592 --> 00:03:16,372 builder from a small town in Ohio. And if I could have any -80 +78 00:03:16,372 --> 00:03:24,382 animal for a pet ... I really like red pandas and ring-tailed -81 +79 00:03:24,387 --> 00:03:29,662 lemurs. So those are on the top of the list. But a falcon seems -82 -00:03:29,662 --> 00:03:31,597 +80 +00:03:29,662 --> 00:03:33,532 like it would be pretty cool. I've already got a skinny pig. -83 -00:03:31,597 --> 00:03:33,532 -So - -84 +81 00:03:33,537 --> 00:03:37,252 -I feel like half of my dreams +So I feel like half of my dreams have been fulfilled already. -85 +82 00:03:37,743 --> 00:03:41,373 Dan: Yeah, that thing is horrifying [chuckles]. -86 +83 00:03:41,449 --> 00:03:42,979 -Bekah: No, cute. It's adorable. +Bekah: No. Cute. It's adorable. -87 +84 00:03:43,084 --> 00:03:45,334 -Dan: It's not. The -- they're +Dan: It's not. The-- they're supposed to have fur [laughs]. -88 +85 00:03:46,758 --> 00:03:47,000 Bekah: No. -89 +86 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:48,500 -Dan: It's like it has a -- -something -- +Dan: It's like it has a-- +something-- -90 +87 00:03:47,300 --> 00:03:48,700 -Bekah: It doesn't- it doesn't +Bekah: It doesn't-- it doesn't have fur. -91 +88 00:03:48,700 --> 00:03:50,000 Dan: Well, I know it doesn't. -92 +89 00:03:49,758 --> 00:03:51,000 Bekah: It's a tiny hippopotamus. So if you're not- -93 +90 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:51,500 Dan: [Chuckles] It's not. -94 +91 00:03:51,500 --> 00:03:52,818 Bekah: -familiar with what a skinny pig -95 +92 00:03:52,818 --> 00:03:56,299 is, it is a hairless Guinea pig that looks like a tiny hippo. -96 +93 00:03:57,859 --> 00:03:59,700 Super cute. Google it. -97 +94 00:03:59,500 --> 00:04:00,000 -Dan: [Laughs] It's- it's -- +Dan: [Laughs] It's- it's-- -98 +95 00:04:00,300 --> 00:04:01,000 Bekah: It is so cute, Dan. -99 +96 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:01,500 Dan: It's really weird. -100 +97 00:04:01,500 --> 00:04:03,588 Bekah: Stop it. Stop hating on my pet. -101 +98 00:04:03,633 --> 00:04:05,824 Dan: I mean, this is from a person who likes the hairless -102 +99 00:04:05,824 --> 00:04:06,153 cats too. So [unintelligible]. -103 +100 00:04:06,318 --> 00:04:07,188 Bekah: Love hairless cats. They're amazing. -104 +101 00:04:07,563 --> 00:04:09,183 -Dan: They're like the most +Dan: They're, like, the most horrifying thing in the world. -105 -00:04:09,288 --> 00:04:10,113 +102 +00:04:09,288 --> 00:04:10,938 Bekah: No, they're not. They're so great. Especially when -106 -00:04:10,113 --> 00:04:10,938 -they're - -107 +103 00:04:10,938 --> 00:04:12,889 -angry looking, they're just -like, great. +they're angry looking, they're +just, like, great. -108 +104 00:04:15,183 --> 00:04:22,300 Dan: That ... [laughs] I don't know. Okay. Hi, I'm Dan. I am a -109 +105 00:04:22,300 --> 00:04:24,814 developer of computer -110 +106 00:04:25,084 --> 00:04:31,353 things [laughs]. I live in Cleveland, Ohio. Yeah. So are we -111 +107 00:04:31,353 --> 00:04:33,064 sticking with real world animals? -112 +108 00:04:33,874 --> 00:04:35,403 Bekah: No. If you want a mini dragon, you can have one. -113 +109 00:04:36,514 --> 00:04:39,783 Dan: A mini dragon? I was gonna say the dragon guy from "The -114 +110 00:04:39,783 --> 00:04:42,274 Neverending Story", although he -is like a little -- +is, like, a little-- -115 +111 00:04:43,009 --> 00:04:43,500 Chad: Falkor? -116 +112 00:04:43,500 --> 00:04:44,264 Bekah: Falkooor. -117 +113 00:04:44,283 --> 00:04:48,588 Dan: Yeah, Falkor. I was gonna say, what's the word -118 +114 00:04:48,588 --> 00:04:52,000 -for like, when you -- when a -person like a- a being can, +for, like, when you-- when a +person, like, a- a being can, -119 +115 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:53,238 -like, talk, and think and stuff? +like, talk, and think, and +stuff? -120 +116 00:04:54,634 --> 00:04:55,434 Bekah: An anthropomorphism? -121 +117 00:04:55,579 --> 00:04:57,789 -Dan: No, no, no. Like a- like a +Dan: No, no, no. Like a-- like a conscious or some- you know, -122 -00:04:57,789 --> 00:04:59,999 -like, - -123 -00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:00,769 -he has -- he's a +118 +00:04:57,789 --> 00:05:00,769 +like, he has-- he's a -124 +119 00:05:00,769 --> 00:05:04,309 -little too much of a human -- -not a human, but like a thinking +little too much of a human-- not +a human but, like, a thinking -125 +120 00:05:04,309 --> 00:05:05,358 -thing to be, like have a pet -- +thing to be, like, have a pet-- -126 +121 00:05:05,374 --> 00:05:07,274 Bekah: Yeah. He's an anthropomorphized -127 +122 00:05:07,274 --> 00:05:08,000 -[unintelligible] -- +[unintelligible]-- -128 +123 00:05:07,579 --> 00:05:09,978 Dan: I- I know. But I'm saying, -like- I'm saying, like, since -- +like-- I'm saying, like, since-- -129 +124 00:05:10,038 --> 00:05:11,869 Chad: It seems it got a taxpayer to me. To know [inaudible]. -130 +125 00:05:11,899 --> 00:05:13,500 -Dan: [Laughs] It's a word -- -there's a word, for what I'm +Dan: [Laughs] It's a word-- +there's a word for what I'm -131 +126 00:05:13,500 --> 00:05:13,819 looking for. -132 +127 00:05:13,819 --> 00:05:16,900 And I- I- I can't think of the -word. But what I mean is like, +word. But what I mean is, like, -133 +128 00:05:16,900 --> 00:05:17,163 I would -134 +129 00:05:17,163 --> 00:05:19,803 feel bad keeping him as a pet -because he has like too much of +because he has, like, too much -135 +130 00:05:19,803 --> 00:05:21,318 -his own, you know, +of his own, you know, consciousness. You know what I -136 +131 00:05:21,318 --> 00:05:22,833 -mean? Like, he +mean? Like, he, -137 +132 00:05:22,834 --> 00:05:25,504 -like talks and he is like his +like, talks and he is, like, his own thing. So I don't think he'd -138 +133 00:05:25,504 --> 00:05:27,454 wanna be a pet. And that would make me sad. -139 -00:05:27,528 --> 00:05:28,563 -Bekah: Well, like what about +134 +00:05:27,528 --> 00:05:29,598 +Bekah: Well, like, what about dogs that run away all the time? -140 -00:05:28,563 --> 00:05:29,598 -Did - -141 +135 00:05:29,598 --> 00:05:31,608 -they really wanna be pet? Should -they be free too? +Did they really wanna be pet? +Should they be free too? -142 +136 00:05:32,764 --> 00:05:38,700 Dan: I mean ... I don't know [chuckles]. I mean, that's a -143 +137 00:05:38,700 --> 00:05:39,004 good question. -144 +138 00:05:39,004 --> 00:05:42,153 Should any pets be pets, you know? Yeah. Yeah. -145 +139 00:05:42,168 --> 00:05:43,699 -Bekah: I -- it's one of those +Bekah: I-- it's one of those moral conundrums. -146 +140 00:05:43,834 --> 00:05:46,500 Dan: I mean, if you truly love it, then set it free and it'll- -147 +141 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:46,700 -Bekah: They comes back [laughs]? +Bekah: They comes back? [Laughs] -148 +142 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:48,994 Dan: -come back or something? -How does that go [laughs]? +How does that go? [Laughs] -149 +143 00:05:49,488 --> 00:05:50,000 Bekah: If they comes back, it's yours. -150 +144 00:05:50,700 --> 00:05:51,000 Dan: Alright. -151 +145 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:51,769 Bekah: And that's how you know. -152 +146 00:05:51,889 --> 00:05:53,800 That is lyrics in a Christina Aguilera's song. -153 +147 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:54,000 Dan: Mm. -154 +148 00:05:54,500 --> 00:05:57,199 Bekah: I refrain from singing it for you. -155 +149 00:05:57,363 --> 00:06:02,043 -Dan: Ah, oh, man. All right. +Dan: Ah-- oh, man. All right. Anyway, that's my answer. I'm- -156 +150 00:06:02,043 --> 00:06:04,300 -I'm going -- i-if we have to +I'm going-- i-if we have to stick with real world, I'd say -157 +151 00:06:04,300 --> 00:06:04,613 sloth though. -158 +152 00:06:04,644 --> 00:06:06,000 Sloths are really cool. And, you know- -159 +153 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:06,700 Bekah: Oh, yeah. -160 +154 00:06:06,700 --> 00:06:07,983 -Dan: -and I'd like -- I'd -totally +Dan: -and I'd like-- I'd totally -161 +155 00:06:07,983 --> 00:06:09,800 like just chill in the backyard with the sloth. If it's- -162 +156 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:10,000 -Bekah: I was -- +Bekah: I was-- -163 +157 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,437 -Dan: -real world- real world +Dan: -real world-- real world animal. That's- that's my -164 +158 00:06:11,437 --> 00:06:12,874 answer. -165 -00:06:13,384 --> 00:06:14,868 +159 +00:06:13,384 --> 00:06:16,352 Bekah: I was in Costa Rica when -I was like 19 or 20, and that +I was, like, 19 or 20. And that -166 -00:06:14,868 --> 00:06:16,352 -was a - -167 +160 00:06:16,358 --> 00:06:19,153 -highlight to get -- to see the -three toed and the two toed +was a highlight to get-- to see +the three toed and the two toed -168 +161 00:06:19,153 --> 00:06:19,483 sloths. -169 +162 00:06:19,803 --> 00:06:20,524 Dan: [Whispers] Oh, yeah. Nice. -170 +163 00:06:21,374 --> 00:06:23,014 Bekah: Welcome, Chad [chuckles]. -171 +164 00:06:23,798 --> 00:06:24,423 Dan: [Laughs] Yeah. Go ahead, Chad. -172 +165 00:06:25,024 --> 00:06:28,983 Chad: Oh, yeah. So I-I'm Chad Stewart. I'm a software -173 +166 00:06:28,783 --> 00:06:28,983 -engineer in -- +engineer in-- -174 +167 00:06:28,983 --> 00:06:32,524 cu-currently in Kingston, Jamaica, mostly do front-end -175 +168 00:06:33,033 --> 00:06:37,084 engineering stuff. Right now though, hopefully -176 +169 00:06:37,088 --> 00:06:40,264 transitioning to doing more full-stack stuff. And I guess I -177 +170 00:06:40,264 --> 00:06:42,634 answered this earlier, but it would be either a cheetah or -178 -00:06:42,634 --> 00:06:44,599 +171 +00:06:42,634 --> 00:06:46,564 peregrine falcon. Those are my favorite animals. They're fast. -179 -00:06:44,599 --> 00:06:46,564 -I - -180 +172 00:06:46,564 --> 00:06:51,423 -like fast animals. I don't know. -Yeah. And I like birds +I like fast animals. I don't +know. Yeah. And I like birds -181 +173 00:06:51,454 --> 00:06:56,074 -which Bekah might have -- Bekah +which Bekah might have-- Bekah alluded to earlier -182 +174 00:06:56,074 --> 00:06:58,894 with a different type of bird. -But, yeah [chuckles]. +But-- yeah [chuckles]. -183 +175 00:06:59,079 --> 00:07:03,738 Dan: [Chuckles] Did you ever -read -- either of you ever read +read-- either of you ever read -184 +176 00:07:03,738 --> 00:07:04,418 "My Side of the Mountain"? -185 +177 00:07:05,309 --> 00:07:05,728 Bekah: Yes. -186 +178 00:07:06,394 --> 00:07:06,783 Chad: I- I did not. -187 +179 00:07:06,843 --> 00:07:08,148 Dan: You read that, Chad? So -it's a -- it's like a- it's like +it's a-- it's like a-- it's like -188 +180 00:07:08,148 --> 00:07:09,453 a young -189 -00:07:09,454 --> 00:07:11,028 -adult book, I think. But it- -it's about a kid who runs away - -190 -00:07:11,028 --> 00:07:12,602 -and +181 +00:07:09,454 --> 00:07:12,602 +adult book, I think. But it-- +it's about a kid who runs away, -191 +182 00:07:12,723 --> 00:07:14,148 -goes and lives in the woods, -like with- with nothing, you +and goes, and lives in the +woods, like, with- with nothing, -192 +183 00:07:14,148 --> 00:07:15,573 -know? And +you know? And -193 +184 00:07:15,574 --> 00:07:19,144 teaches himself how to so-sort of forage, and hunt, and fish or -194 +185 00:07:19,144 --> 00:07:21,574 -whatever. And he eventually like -goes and get -- like, st- steals +whatever. And he eventually, +like, goes and get-- like, st- -195 +186 00:07:21,574 --> 00:07:24,004 -a +steals a -196 +187 00:07:24,004 --> 00:07:27,514 falcon baby from a nest and- and then, like, raises it and trains -197 +188 00:07:27,514 --> 00:07:28,519 -it. And be -- it becomes his, +it. And be-- it becomes his, like, friend and stuff. It's- -198 +189 00:07:28,519 --> 00:07:29,524 it's -199 +190 00:07:29,524 --> 00:07:34,300 really cool. Anyway, that- that -sounds cool. It would be- it +sounds cool. It would be-- it -200 +191 00:07:34,300 --> 00:07:34,788 -would be really cool +would be really cool to -201 +192 00:07:34,788 --> 00:07:37,968 -to have a falcon as- as a pet. -And like, could just like hang +have a falcon as- as a pet. And, +like, could just, like, hang -202 +193 00:07:37,968 --> 00:07:41,509 out with you on your shoulder? -Is that what -- do you think +Is that what-- do you think -203 +194 00:07:41,509 --> 00:07:43,098 you'd do shoulder or just do your arm thing? I dunno if -204 +195 00:07:43,098 --> 00:07:44,000 on arm is possible. -205 +196 00:07:43,233 --> 00:07:46,264 Chad: Depends on the falcon. -I'm, you know, considering the +I'm-- you know, considering the -206 +197 00:07:46,264 --> 00:07:47,794 talents, it would probably not necessarily rest on your -207 +198 00:07:47,794 --> 00:07:49,324 shoulder -208 +199 00:07:49,324 --> 00:07:50,824 and rest in your shoulder, you know what I mean? -209 +200 00:07:50,838 --> 00:07:52,158 Dan: [Laughs] Right, right. -[Unintelligible] very little -- +[Unintelligible] very little-- -210 +201 00:07:52,488 --> 00:07:54,918 Bekah: Like a very leather shoulder pad or something. -211 +202 00:07:55,009 --> 00:07:56,000 Dan: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Little contraption for him to -212 +203 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,024 hang out on. Feel like -213 +204 00:07:58,024 --> 00:07:59,598 you'd wanna, like, hang, you -know? Keep you -- keep him with +know? Keep you-- keep him with -214 +205 00:07:59,598 --> 00:08:01,172 you when- -215 +206 00:08:01,264 --> 00:08:03,274 -when he's not -- like, when he's +when he's not-- like, when he's not cruising around. -216 +207 00:08:04,338 --> 00:08:07,488 Bekah: If I am ever famous and I go to an award show, I'm gonna -217 +208 00:08:07,488 --> 00:08:11,569 come with a falcon on my shoulder. I just decided it. -218 +209 00:08:11,574 --> 00:08:11,733 Seems like the [unintelligible]. -219 +210 00:08:11,733 --> 00:08:12,648 Dan: You're keynoting a conference. You should do it -220 +211 00:08:12,648 --> 00:08:13,563 there. -221 +212 00:08:14,689 --> 00:08:17,298 Bekah: [Laughs] I don't think I have enough time to train a -222 +213 00:08:17,298 --> 00:08:18,300 falcon. I've got, like- -223 +214 00:08:18,300 --> 00:08:18,500 Dan: Mm. -224 +215 00:08:18,700 --> 00:08:19,759 Bekah: -three weeks. -225 +216 00:08:20,173 --> 00:08:21,274 Dan: That's not enough time. -226 +217 00:08:21,949 --> 00:08:22,668 Bekah: I don't know. -227 +218 00:08:22,908 --> 00:08:25,249 Dan: Well, yeah. This episode will come out after that anyway. -228 +219 00:08:25,249 --> 00:08:29,478 -So, next time you're the keynote +So next time you're the keynote speaker at a conference, -229 +220 00:08:30,319 --> 00:08:33,000 -that'll be -- you just put that -in the -- on the plan [laughs]. +that'll be-- you just put that +in the-- on the plan [laughs]. -230 +221 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,300 Bekah: That'll be my thing. -231 +222 00:08:34,300 --> 00:08:34,500 Dan: Yeah. -232 +223 00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:37,083 Bekah: Kirk says my thing is crying while I give -233 +224 00:08:37,083 --> 00:08:40,203 talks. And that is the thing I would like to not be doing. I -234 +225 00:08:40,203 --> 00:08:43,000 would rather be the- the Falcon shoulder person [Bekah and Dan -235 +226 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:48,504 laugh]. Wel- welcome, Chad. This -236 +227 00:08:48,634 --> 00:08:54,288 -is- this is the normal intro for -us. And it is a Friday that +is-- this is the normal intro +for us. And it is a Friday that -237 +228 00:08:54,288 --> 00:08:55,700 we are recording on. So- -238 +229 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:56,300 Dan: Yeah. -239 +230 00:08:56,300 --> 00:08:58,129 Bekah: -brains don't work on Fridays. -240 +231 00:08:58,129 --> 00:09:00,700 Everybody knows that. So [laughs] you're gonna have to -241 +232 00:09:00,700 --> 00:09:01,879 bear with us today. -242 -00:09:02,298 --> 00:09:04,203 -But we will -- we'll give you -the mic now. So you don't have - -243 -00:09:04,203 --> 00:09:06,108 -to +233 +00:09:02,298 --> 00:09:06,108 +But we will-- we'll give you the +mic now. So you don't have -244 +234 00:09:06,109 --> 00:09:09,349 -listen to me talk anymore. We +to listen to me talk anymore. We always love to hear your origin -245 -00:09:09,354 --> 00:09:11,031 +235 +00:09:09,354 --> 00:09:12,708 story. How did you come into tech and get to this point in -246 -00:09:11,031 --> 00:09:12,708 -your - -247 +236 00:09:12,714 --> 00:09:13,249 -tech journey? +your tech journey? -248 +237 00:09:14,433 --> 00:09:19,594 Chad: Yeah. So, I guess I give a kind of quick synopsis of- -249 +238 00:09:19,624 --> 00:09:26,614 of what I did. So, I moved to the United States for some -250 +239 00:09:26,614 --> 00:09:28,571 time. To be honest, to- to- to go to art school because I -251 +240 00:09:28,571 --> 00:09:30,528 wanted to -252 +241 00:09:30,528 --> 00:09:32,688 -be a- a game developer and I -- +be a- a game developer and I-- but I couldn't draw very well at -253 +242 00:09:32,688 --> 00:09:34,848 the -254 +243 00:09:34,849 --> 00:09:38,599 time. So I ended up into another program, which effectively was -255 +244 00:09:38,604 --> 00:09:42,168 -web design. Whatever this -- it +web design. Whatever this-- it was The Art Institute of Fort -256 +245 00:09:42,168 --> 00:09:43,803 Lauderdale. And it was whatever they had, kinda called web -257 +246 00:09:43,803 --> 00:09:45,438 design. -258 +247 00:09:45,438 --> 00:09:49,009 And I did that for some time, graduated, and then found I -259 +248 00:09:49,009 --> 00:09:52,800 didn't necessarily like web design directly. Or at least, -260 +249 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:53,479 what it was -261 +250 00:09:53,479 --> 00:09:58,698 at the time. And so I ended up going back to another school. -262 +251 00:09:58,818 --> 00:10:01,700 I'm pretty sure the South Floridians would kind of -263 +252 00:10:01,700 --> 00:10:02,269 know the schools -264 +253 00:10:02,269 --> 00:10:05,389 that I'm talking about. Well, people know Art Institute. But -265 +254 00:10:05,688 --> 00:10:09,259 for the South Floridians, I went -back to NSU, Nova +back to NSU — Nova -266 +255 00:10:09,259 --> 00:10:11,523 -Southeastern University, got a- +Southeastern University — got a- a software engineering degree -267 +256 00:10:11,523 --> 00:10:13,787 from -268 +257 00:10:14,028 --> 00:10:19,908 there. And then did some work, ended up returning home, and -269 +258 00:10:20,269 --> 00:10:24,469 have been kinda working around ever since. During the -270 +259 00:10:24,469 --> 00:10:29,734 pandemic, I was unemployed. And -that- that's how I came across, - -271 -00:10:29,734 --> 00:10:31,833 -you know, Bekah and Dan, and -Virtual Coffee when they were- +that-- that's how I came across, -272 -00:10:31,833 --> 00:10:33,932 -when +260 +00:10:29,734 --> 00:10:33,932 +you know, Bekah, and Dan, and +Virtual Coffee when they were-- -273 +261 00:10:33,933 --> 00:10:35,688 -they were hosting -- well, +when they were hosting-- well, they're still hosting [laughs]. -274 +262 00:10:35,688 --> 00:10:37,443 They're still -275 +263 00:10:37,443 --> 00:10:41,553 hosting Zoom- Zoom calls. But that's how I came across them. -276 +264 00:10:41,854 --> 00:10:48,423 And I've mostly been kinda active on Twitter. So I s- I, -277 +265 00:10:48,423 --> 00:10:53,076 -you know, I met- I met Dan and- -a-a-and Bekah during 2020, um, +you know, I met-- I met Dan and- +a-a-and Bekah during 2020 ... -278 +266 00:10:53,076 --> 00:10:59,614 2020, 2021 I decided to start an organization called -279 +267 00:10:59,614 --> 00:11:04,984 Tech is Hiring. Te- pretty much what I do is I retweet job -280 +268 00:11:04,984 --> 00:11:10,984 opportunities as I come across them on Twitter. And I re- re- -281 +269 00:11:11,073 --> 00:11:15,484 I also retweet people looking for- for opportunities. -282 +270 00:11:16,024 --> 00:11:20,764 And so I've been doing that for -about -- for- for a little bit +about-- for- for a little bit -283 +271 00:11:20,764 --> 00:11:25,500 over a year now. And ... yeah. Like, that's pretty much it. -284 +272 00:11:25,500 --> 00:11:25,923 -We- we do have -- +We- we do have-- -285 +273 00:11:26,104 --> 00:11:31,563 we have some presence on LinkedIn, but mostly still on -286 +274 00:11:31,563 --> 00:11:36,274 Twitter. Have a newsletter, been doing the newsletter thing, -287 +275 00:11:36,274 --> 00:11:37,338 haven't missed a week. I'm actually pretty happy about -288 +276 00:11:37,338 --> 00:11:38,402 that [chuckles]. -289 +277 00:11:38,403 --> 00:11:43,879 Have- have been doing a newsletter for a couple of -290 +278 00:11:43,879 --> 00:11:47,568 months now. I think over six months now. And ... yeah. That's -291 +279 00:11:47,573 --> 00:11:51,769 -pretty much -- yeah. I'm working +pretty much-- yeah. I'm working now, you know, thankfully. And -292 +280 00:11:51,769 --> 00:11:56,089 my opportunities are increasing because of the amount of work -293 -00:11:56,089 --> 00:11:57,664 +281 +00:11:56,089 --> 00:11:59,239 that I've been doing, and people I've been reaching out to, and -294 -00:11:57,664 --> 00:11:59,239 -so - -295 +282 00:11:59,239 --> 00:12:03,828 -on and so forth. But, yeah. +so on and so forth. But-- yeah. Yeah, it's pretty much me right -296 +283 00:12:03,828 --> 00:12:04,009 now. -297 +284 00:12:05,344 --> 00:12:08,193 Bekah: That's awesome. And we're gonna dive into Tech is Hiring a -298 +285 00:12:08,193 --> 00:12:11,464 little bit more. But before we jump into that, I know that -299 +286 00:12:11,464 --> 00:12:12,888 you've been doing, you know, a lot of different community -300 +287 00:12:12,888 --> 00:12:14,312 things -301 +288 00:12:14,313 --> 00:12:17,494 and some of that's been open source work. Do you wanna talk -302 +289 00:12:17,494 --> 00:12:21,813 about what you've been doing with open source and how you've -303 +290 00:12:21,844 --> 00:12:22,984 been a contributor as well? -304 +291 00:12:23,524 --> 00:12:28,833 Chad: Ah, yes. Ah, yes. So, I -recently started open source, +recently started open source-- -305 +292 00:12:28,864 --> 00:12:33,394 doing more open source work. Funny enough, I started with -306 +293 00:12:33,423 --> 00:12:37,653 -the- with the- the open source +the-- with the- the open source project that I had started with, -307 +294 00:12:38,043 --> 00:12:42,874 which is Open Sauced by Brian Douglas — at Bdougie -308 -00:12:42,874 --> 00:12:45,949 +295 +00:12:42,874 --> 00:12:49,024 on- on Twitter. And he, honestly, he approached me to -309 -00:12:45,949 --> 00:12:49,024 -ask - -310 +296 00:12:49,024 --> 00:12:53,793 -me to- to- to contribute to his -project. And I did. +ask me to- to- to contribute to +his project. And I did. -311 +297 00:12:53,823 --> 00:13:01,234 But I didn't stay initially, mostly because of just all other -312 +298 00:13:01,234 --> 00:13:06,798 stuff that I kinda had going on at the time. But he, again, -313 +299 00:13:06,798 --> 00:13:12,678 -approached me later- he, again, +approached me later-- he, again, approached me later that year — -314 +300 00:13:12,918 --> 00:13:16,369 really late in the year — mostly because of Tech is Hiring. -315 +301 00:13:16,668 --> 00:13:19,700 And then he, you know, he wants -to brought -- wanted me to- to +to brought-- wanted me to- to -316 +302 00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:20,178 -come on -- to-to-to +come on-- to-to-to -317 +303 00:13:20,183 --> 00:13:26,328 contribute more- more again, and that's what I've been -318 +304 00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:31,249 kinda doing for the last couple of months. And, you know, -319 +305 00:13:31,249 --> 00:13:36,918 his- his project is pretty much -about kind of having -- it- it +about kind of having-- it- it -320 +306 00:13:36,918 --> 00:13:40,668 being a platform of- of people, you know, transitioning into -321 +307 00:13:40,668 --> 00:13:45,558 contributing for open source. -It's in a bit of, I don't +It's in a bit of-- I don't -322 -00:13:45,558 --> 00:13:48,648 +308 +00:13:45,558 --> 00:13:51,738 wanna call it limbo, but if the kinda scope is evolving at -323 -00:13:48,648 --> 00:13:51,738 -this - -324 +309 00:13:51,739 --> 00:13:55,548 -point. So, you know, we're- +this point. So, you know, we're- we're all just kinda trying to -325 +310 00:13:55,548 --> 00:14:03,318 figure the OT, recently left GitHub to- to work on- o-on open -326 +311 00:14:03,318 --> 00:14:09,129 source full time. And so, you know, as he does that, and he's -327 +312 00:14:09,129 --> 00:14:13,359 -putting a lot more like of his +putting a lot more, like, of his full, you know, effort into it, -328 +313 00:14:13,359 --> 00:14:15,549 -he's been- he's been kinda +he's been-- he's been kinda expanding on that. And I've -329 +314 00:14:15,549 --> 00:14:17,739 really -330 +315 00:14:17,739 --> 00:14:21,038 -been helping here and there. So +been helping here and there. So, like, for instance, one of the -331 +316 00:14:21,038 --> 00:14:24,369 things that I did — I'm pretty kinda happy about this — is -332 +317 00:14:24,428 --> 00:14:27,698 that the- the- the onboarding experience for open source was- -333 +318 00:14:28,129 --> 00:14:33,229 was a little bit disjointed and, you know, he had managed to- to- -334 +319 00:14:33,229 --> 00:14:37,249 -to get some designs, and to just +to get some designs and to just kinda change the -335 +320 00:14:37,249 --> 00:14:40,969 onboarding experience. And that -was like one of the first major +was, like, one of the first -336 +321 00:14:40,969 --> 00:14:44,328 -things that had helped him with, -when I started contrib- +major things that had helped him +with when I started contrib- -337 +322 00:14:44,328 --> 00:14:47,687 contributing -338 +323 00:14:47,688 --> 00:14:50,148 more often. And, you know, I've -been doing it for -- I've been +been doing it for-- I've been -339 +324 00:14:50,148 --> 00:14:52,608 working -340 +325 00:14:52,639 --> 00:14:56,599 -on the project ever since. It -- +on the project ever since. It-- there's two projects. There's -341 +326 00:14:56,899 --> 00:15:01,009 -Open Sauced the- the- the app -- +OpenSauced the- the- the app-- the- the- the regular app. And -342 +327 00:15:01,009 --> 00:15:05,089 -then you have Hot Open Sauced, -which is like a-a-a-another -- +then you have Hot OpenSauced, +which is like a-a-a-another-- -343 +328 00:15:06,528 --> 00:15:10,399 not a child app, but just that a-app alongside of it. I -344 +329 00:15:10,428 --> 00:15:12,889 haven't been working with Hot -Open Sauced. But, yeah. That's +OpenSauced. But-- yeah. That's -345 +330 00:15:12,889 --> 00:15:15,634 pretty much what I've been doing. And, you know, you -346 +331 00:15:15,634 --> 00:15:18,379 interact with -347 +332 00:15:18,379 --> 00:15:20,764 the community. You know, you get -to talk to -- you- you- you talk +to talk to-- you- you- you talk -348 +333 00:15:20,764 --> 00:15:23,149 to -349 +334 00:15:23,149 --> 00:15:25,218 -people here and there, like -- +people here and there, like-- so, it's kinda interesting -350 +335 00:15:25,218 --> 00:15:27,287 because -351 +336 00:15:27,288 --> 00:15:29,448 -he has a- he has a Discord, +he has a-- he has a Discord which I- I interact with a- a -352 +337 00:15:29,448 --> 00:15:31,608 few times, -353 +338 00:15:31,614 --> 00:15:34,849 but to be honest, a lot of the interactions kinda come- come -354 +339 00:15:34,849 --> 00:15:38,749 through his stream. I feel like a lot of people just kinda -355 +340 00:15:38,749 --> 00:15:40,203 come there. And then there's -also times where he'll have like +also times where he'll have, -356 +341 00:15:40,203 --> 00:15:41,657 -a +like, a -357 +342 00:15:41,658 --> 00:15:45,769 call on his Discord. And, you know, that's where you- you have -358 +343 00:15:45,769 --> 00:15:48,408 some really interesting -conversations. You know, about +conversations, you know, about -359 +344 00:15:48,408 --> 00:15:50,013 the project and about kinda how it's evolving. But just -360 +345 00:15:50,013 --> 00:15:51,618 generally -361 +346 00:15:51,619 --> 00:15:55,339 about software engineering. I -think that's like in terms of- +think that's, like, in terms of- -362 +347 00:15:55,399 --> 00:15:58,369 -of -- in terms of open source, +of-- in terms of open source, that's the thing that I kinda -363 +348 00:15:58,369 --> 00:16:03,000 -want to -- I- I- I really think +want to-- I- I- I really think is the most important is, you're -364 +349 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:03,349 kind of -365 +350 00:16:03,349 --> 00:16:07,219 access to information that you -wouldn't regularly have, or not +wouldn't regularly have or not -366 +351 00:16:07,219 --> 00:16:10,788 even necessarily access. Because if you've heard these terms, -367 +352 00:16:10,793 --> 00:16:14,778 you've heard a lot of the technologies and stuff, you -368 +353 00:16:14,778 --> 00:16:17,629 prob- you can Google it. Or, you know, they're- they're that -369 +354 00:16:17,688 --> 00:16:22,308 open. But, like, the likelihood of you coming across that as -370 +355 00:16:22,308 --> 00:16:25,578 somebody who's just not in the know, you know, is very -371 +356 00:16:25,578 --> 00:16:28,759 difficult. And I think that's, like, the- the key thing that- -372 +357 00:16:28,999 --> 00:16:33,484 that open source has been helping me with is just coming -373 +358 00:16:33,484 --> 00:16:35,794 across these technologies, and these people, and, you know, -374 +359 00:16:35,794 --> 00:16:38,104 just -375 +360 00:16:38,104 --> 00:16:41,524 getting to know them, you know? Even if it's still more of a -376 +361 00:16:41,583 --> 00:16:45,124 passive la- not passive. But as a pe- I don't know the person -377 +362 00:16:45,124 --> 00:16:47,313 -directly, or I don't know -- I +directly or I don't know-- I haven't interacted with the -378 +363 00:16:47,313 --> 00:16:49,863 -technology, but just having them -as like in your Rolodex of +technology but just having them +as, like, in your Rolodex of -379 +364 00:16:49,863 --> 00:16:52,413 things -380 +365 00:16:52,413 --> 00:16:53,853 that you could leverage, you know, is extraordinarily -381 +366 00:16:53,853 --> 00:16:55,293 important. -382 +367 00:16:56,854 --> 00:16:59,433 Bekah: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And I love Brian Douglas -383 +368 00:16:59,433 --> 00:17:02,764 -too. He's pretty awesome. I -- +too. He's pretty awesome. I-- actually, he's gonna be doing -384 +369 00:17:02,764 --> 00:17:07,263 a Lunch and Learn at Virtual Coffee, which is super -385 -00:17:07,483 --> 00:17:09,368 +370 +00:17:07,483 --> 00:17:11,253 exciting. We're gonna talk about -open source, and Open Sauced, - -386 -00:17:09,368 --> 00:17:11,253 -and +open source, and OpenSauced, -387 +371 00:17:11,253 --> 00:17:13,608 -Hacktoberfest. So that'll be +and Hacktoberfest. So that'll be coming up in September. I'm -388 +372 00:17:13,608 --> 00:17:15,963 really glad -389 +373 00:17:15,963 --> 00:17:21,588 -to have him getting us in the- +to have him getting us in the-- in the mind frame of -390 +374 00:17:21,709 --> 00:17:24,003 prepping to do some open source -contribution. Because that's -- +contribution. Because that's-- -391 +375 00:17:24,003 --> 00:17:26,297 -I -- +I-- -392 +376 00:17:26,358 --> 00:17:29,719 -the beginning of -- kind of of +the beginning of-- kind of of the Virtual Coffee origin story -393 +377 00:17:29,719 --> 00:17:33,558 maybe. It's not the first thing that we did, but it -394 +378 00:17:33,558 --> 00:17:38,148 was the first time I felt like Virtual Coffee was gonna be an -395 +379 00:17:38,148 --> 00:17:42,888 organization that outlasts the pandemic. I thought for a -396 +380 00:17:42,894 --> 00:17:44,441 long time that it was like, "Hey, we're gonna get together." -397 +381 00:17:44,441 --> 00:17:45,988 And -398 +382 00:17:46,199 --> 00:17:48,074 everybody's feeling isolated. And then we did Hacktoberfest, -399 +383 00:17:48,074 --> 00:17:49,949 our -400 +384 00:17:49,953 --> 00:17:51,931 -first Hacktoberfest initiative. +first Hacktoberfest Initiative. And everybody was just so -401 +385 00:17:51,931 --> 00:17:53,909 excited -402 +386 00:17:53,909 --> 00:17:55,949 about it and contributing. And we had maintainers, and -403 +387 00:17:55,949 --> 00:17:57,989 contributors, -404 +388 00:17:57,989 --> 00:18:02,314 and lots of mentorship, and support, and it was, you know, -405 +389 00:18:02,314 --> 00:18:02,614 -it was fun, +it was fun but -406 +390 00:18:02,614 --> 00:18:07,233 -but really gratifying to see -people contributing and learning +really gratifying to see people +contributing, and learning, -407 -00:18:07,233 --> 00:18:08,628 +391 +00:18:07,233 --> 00:18:10,023 and growing through that experience. And, you know, it -408 -00:18:08,628 --> 00:18:10,023 -can - -409 +392 00:18:10,023 --> 00:18:13,173 -be- it can be scary to get +can be-- it can be scary to get involved and do your first -410 +393 00:18:13,173 --> 00:18:16,923 -contribution. Even if you've -been in tech, we had a number of +contribution, even if you've +been in tech. We had a number of -411 +394 00:18:16,923 --> 00:18:19,324 people who have been in tech for -a while, and have never done an +a while and have never done an -412 +395 00:18:19,328 --> 00:18:20,976 open source contribution. So, you know, what advice do you -413 +396 00:18:20,976 --> 00:18:22,624 have for -414 -00:18:22,624 --> 00:18:24,484 +397 +00:18:22,624 --> 00:18:26,344 folks who are m-maybe a little bit nervous about entering that -415 -00:18:24,484 --> 00:18:26,344 -open - -416 +398 00:18:26,348 --> 00:18:27,394 -source experience? +open source experience? -417 +399 00:18:28,669 --> 00:18:32,808 -Chad: That's a- that's a really +Chad: That's a-- that's a really interesting question. -418 +400 00:18:33,919 --> 00:18:37,743 Hmm. What advice would I give? So, I would say, find the -419 +401 00:18:37,743 --> 00:18:41,567 community, -420 +402 00:18:42,019 --> 00:18:48,304 -you know? Like, the -- so, the- +you know? Like, the-- so, the- the- the open source projects -421 +403 00:18:48,304 --> 00:18:54,094 that I would definitely look- look to are open source -422 +404 00:18:54,094 --> 00:18:58,953 projects that are very much not just about the- the- the -423 +405 00:18:58,959 --> 00:19:01,221 -contributions, but, you know, -like the- the -- whatever you +contributions but, you know, +like, the- the-- whatever you -424 +406 00:19:01,221 --> 00:19:03,483 kind of -425 +407 00:19:03,513 --> 00:19:07,294 deliver, whatever you merge, you know? But significantly more -426 +408 00:19:07,294 --> 00:19:12,798 about the community of people. And just kind of the culture -427 +409 00:19:12,919 --> 00:19:16,909 around the- the- the open source -project. Like -- that's really +project. Like-- that's really -428 +410 00:19:16,909 --> 00:19:21,469 important, you know? Like, there -are a lot of -- there, you know, +are a lot of-- there, you know, -429 +411 00:19:21,469 --> 00:19:24,258 people give the advice of- of, -you know, contribute to, like +you know, contribute to, like, -430 +412 00:19:24,258 --> 00:19:27,047 you- -431 +413 00:19:27,054 --> 00:19:28,716 -you -- their tools that you use +you-- their tools that you use all the time like React, and so -432 +414 00:19:28,716 --> 00:19:30,378 on -433 +415 00:19:30,378 --> 00:19:34,503 and so forth, you know? You want to contribute to those. And, you -434 +416 00:19:34,503 --> 00:19:37,263 know, some of them are hit and -miss, but a lot of the times +miss but a lot of the times, -435 +417 00:19:37,263 --> 00:19:40,878 -they're so big that they -- +they're so big that they-- they're really hard to get into, -436 +418 00:19:40,878 --> 00:19:44,493 you -437 +419 00:19:44,493 --> 00:19:46,623 -know? Like, I- I wanted to -- I, +know? Like, I- I wanted to-- I, you know, I heard the- the whole -438 +420 00:19:46,623 --> 00:19:48,753 thing. -439 +421 00:19:48,753 --> 00:19:49,923 -It's like, "You should- you +It's like, "You should-- you should contribute to open -440 +422 00:19:49,923 --> 00:19:51,093 source. It's -441 +423 00:19:51,094 --> 00:19:52,744 great." And so, I was just like, "Okay, I'll contribute to open -442 +424 00:19:52,744 --> 00:19:54,394 source," -443 +425 00:19:54,394 --> 00:19:55,609 you know? "Which- which product then I'm going to try?" "You -444 +426 00:19:55,609 --> 00:19:56,824 wanna try -445 +427 00:19:56,824 --> 00:19:58,518 to contribute to React. There's a bunch of good first issues -446 +428 00:19:58,518 --> 00:20:00,212 there." -447 +429 00:20:00,213 --> 00:20:01,606 And I was just like, "What?" [Chad and Bekah laugh] You know -448 +430 00:20:01,606 --> 00:20:02,999 what I -449 +431 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,804 mean? Like, I couldn't -450 -00:20:04,804 --> 00:20:08,013 +432 +00:20:04,804 --> 00:20:06,408 understand anything that they -were asking. And this was like a +were asking. And this was, like, -451 +433 +00:20:06,408 --> 00:20:08,012 +a + +434 00:20:08,013 --> 00:20:11,614 couple of years back. And I, you know, I tried it a few times and -452 +435 00:20:11,614 --> 00:20:13,158 I was just like, "I'm gonna go do something else," you know -453 +436 00:20:13,158 --> 00:20:14,702 what I -454 +437 00:20:14,709 --> 00:20:17,493 -mean? So it's like really +mean? So it's, like, really important to kinda have that -455 -00:20:17,499 --> 00:20:21,663 -community, like have- have those -people being very welcoming, you +438 +00:20:17,499 --> 00:20:19,581 +community, like, have- have +those people being very -456 +439 +00:20:19,581 --> 00:20:21,663 +welcoming, you + +440 00:20:21,663 --> 00:20:23,865 know? Having the Discord. Like, a lot of the- the secondary -457 +441 00:20:23,865 --> 00:20:26,067 stuff to -458 +442 00:20:26,068 --> 00:20:31,259 -the- to the- to the actual +the-- to the-- to the actual working code and tools is- is -459 +443 00:20:31,259 --> 00:20:33,448 really important. The second thing, and I'm- I'm really -460 +444 00:20:33,448 --> 00:20:35,637 happy, -461 +445 00:20:35,644 --> 00:20:38,176 I remember this. But- but the second thing is that do- you -462 +446 00:20:38,176 --> 00:20:40,708 don't necessarily -463 +447 00:20:40,709 --> 00:20:44,673 have to contribute code, you know? It's not just about code. -464 +448 00:20:44,673 --> 00:20:46,428 There's a lot of other things -that you can contribute, and +that you can contribute and -465 +449 00:20:46,428 --> 00:20:48,183 that -466 +450 00:20:48,183 --> 00:20:50,088 would be a contra- contribution to open source. Like, -467 +451 00:20:50,088 --> 00:20:51,993 contributing -468 +452 00:20:52,023 --> 00:20:59,824 documentation, you know? Like, I -know Brian have -- for- for open +know Brian have-- for- for open -469 +453 00:20:59,824 --> 00:21:02,253 source, he has a triage team for- for triaging issues. I -470 +454 00:21:02,253 --> 00:21:04,682 believe -471 +455 00:21:04,683 --> 00:21:09,033 that's like ... you know, f-find -you -- taking -- I'm sorry if +you-- taking-- I'm sorry if -472 +456 00:21:09,033 --> 00:21:13,383 -I'm -- I- +I'm-- I- -473 +457 00:21:13,384 --> 00:21:15,303 I- I hope I'm getting this right. But, like, you- you take -474 +458 00:21:15,303 --> 00:21:17,222 -it -- when- +it-- when- -475 +459 00:21:17,223 --> 00:21:20,523 when there's issues, you know, you kinda scope them out so that -476 +460 00:21:20,584 --> 00:21:22,368 there's something that somebody can easily take on. And I -477 +461 00:21:22,368 --> 00:21:24,152 believe -478 +462 00:21:24,153 --> 00:21:26,958 -he got that idea from the Node --- from Node. Which Node's, from +he got that idea from the Node-- +from Node. Which Node's, from -479 +463 00:21:26,958 --> 00:21:29,763 my -480 -00:21:29,763 --> 00:21:31,531 -understanding -- no, in fact, -for the longest time, I really - -481 -00:21:31,531 --> 00:21:33,299 -wanted +464 +00:21:29,763 --> 00:21:33,299 +understanding-- no, in fact, for +the longest time, I really -482 +465 00:21:33,299 --> 00:21:33,693 -to join the +wanted to join the -483 +466 00:21:33,693 --> 00:21:36,063 open source community for Node because they seemed so -484 +467 00:21:36,063 --> 00:21:38,433 welcoming, -485 +468 00:21:38,493 --> 00:21:40,863 you know? They seemed to have all of this kind of -486 +469 00:21:40,863 --> 00:21:43,233 infrastructure in -487 +470 00:21:43,239 --> 00:21:48,328 place for a new person to come in and really be able to -488 +471 00:21:48,328 --> 00:21:50,473 contribute, you know? Like, I don't remember exactly -489 +472 00:21:50,473 --> 00:21:52,618 everything -490 +473 00:21:52,618 --> 00:21:53,833 -that they have now, but like, +that they have now but, like, they have, you know, they have -491 +474 00:21:53,833 --> 00:21:55,048 -stuff +stuff on -492 +475 00:21:55,048 --> 00:21:58,019 -on YouTube, they have them week --- they have weekly meetings on +YouTube, they have them week-- +they have weekly meetings on -493 +476 00:21:58,019 --> 00:22:00,328 YouTube, you know? Like, they have, like, this whole community -494 +477 00:22:00,328 --> 00:22:02,637 around -495 +478 00:22:02,638 --> 00:22:05,068 -joining them. And so -- and -- +joining them. And so-- and-- I'll try not to- to go into the -496 +479 00:22:05,068 --> 00:22:07,498 community thing -497 +480 00:22:07,499 --> 00:22:09,714 -again, but like, there are a lot +again but, like, there are a lot of things that you can do to -498 +481 00:22:09,714 --> 00:22:11,929 contribute, -499 +482 00:22:11,929 --> 00:22:13,488 you know? Like, you can -contribute documentation, like +contribute documentation, like-- -500 +483 00:22:13,488 --> 00:22:15,047 for- for- for -501 +484 00:22:15,048 --> 00:22:16,833 the Node project. Like, I -believe you can do something +believe you can do something, -502 +485 00:22:16,833 --> 00:22:18,618 -like just +like, just -503 +486 00:22:18,618 --> 00:22:21,288 kinda help managing the meetings that they have because -504 +487 00:22:21,528 --> 00:22:23,703 they regularly have meetings. But there are a lot of outside -505 +488 00:22:23,703 --> 00:22:25,878 things, -506 +489 00:22:25,878 --> 00:22:28,188 -outside of like literally +outside of, like, literally writing the code that needs to -507 +490 00:22:28,188 --> 00:22:30,498 go into -508 +491 00:22:30,503 --> 00:22:35,209 -the project that can go- that +the project that can go-- that can go in there. And people have -509 +492 00:22:35,209 --> 00:22:37,811 literally gotten opportunities from contributing to open -510 +493 00:22:37,811 --> 00:22:40,413 -source- +source-- -511 -00:22:40,443 --> 00:22:42,648 +494 +00:22:40,443 --> 00:22:44,853 open source projects in these auxiliary ways, you know? And -512 -00:22:42,648 --> 00:22:44,853 -so, - -513 +495 00:22:45,229 --> 00:22:47,778 -I would -- so, the thing that I +so I would-- so the thing that I would definitely stress is -514 +496 00:22:47,778 --> 00:22:50,989 community, you know? Like, community is extraordinarily -515 +497 00:22:50,989 --> 00:22:55,219 important, you know? Having people to have your back, you -516 +498 00:22:55,219 --> 00:22:58,578 know, when you're contributing is really important. To be quite -517 +499 00:22:58,584 --> 00:23:02,628 honest, I would say that it's much more important to- to- to -518 +500 00:23:02,628 --> 00:23:05,358 build and maintain those relationships than it is to -519 +501 00:23:05,358 --> 00:23:07,211 -contribute the code. In my +contribute the code, in my opinion. But it's much more -520 +502 00:23:07,211 --> 00:23:09,064 important -521 +503 00:23:09,064 --> 00:23:10,474 to have those relationships. In fact, I would say that's the -522 +504 00:23:10,474 --> 00:23:11,884 most -523 +505 00:23:11,884 --> 00:23:14,344 important thing about open source. And that it's not just -524 +506 00:23:14,344 --> 00:23:16,804 about -525 +507 00:23:16,804 --> 00:23:18,978 contributing code. You don't need to contribute code. It's- -526 +508 00:23:18,978 --> 00:23:21,152 it's -527 -00:23:21,183 --> 00:23:23,178 +509 +00:23:21,183 --> 00:23:25,173 about you can contribute in- in -your own way. Just reach out, +your own way. Just reach out -528 -00:23:23,178 --> 00:23:25,173 -and - -529 +510 00:23:25,179 --> 00:23:27,066 -there might be things that- +and there might be things that- that, you know, that the- the- -530 +511 00:23:27,066 --> 00:23:28,953 the -531 +512 00:23:29,324 --> 00:23:32,854 maintainer needs. And, you know, you may be able to help- help -532 +513 00:23:32,854 --> 00:23:34,878 -there. But just -- I guess, to +there. But just-- I guess, to kind of sum up at the very least -533 +514 00:23:34,878 --> 00:23:36,902 the -534 +515 00:23:36,909 --> 00:23:38,421 last part is just be very open -minded on how you- how you'd +minded on how you-- how you'd -535 +516 00:23:38,421 --> 00:23:39,933 like -536 +517 00:23:39,933 --> 00:23:42,903 to contribute to the community, you know? Like, you don't -537 +518 00:23:42,903 --> 00:23:45,153 necessarily have to contribute something that, you know, gets -538 +519 00:23:45,153 --> 00:23:47,181 merged into a pull request. Well, yeah. But just be very -539 +520 00:23:47,181 --> 00:23:49,209 open minded on -540 +521 00:23:49,209 --> 00:23:50,979 how you'd contribute to the -community -- to- to- to that +community-- to- to- to that -541 +522 00:23:50,979 --> 00:23:52,749 community. -542 +523 00:23:52,778 --> 00:23:55,088 And focus on community, you know? Even if it's a small -543 +524 00:23:55,088 --> 00:23:57,398 community, -544 +525 00:23:57,398 --> 00:24:01,598 just focus on the relationships that you're building with- with -545 +526 00:24:01,598 --> 00:24:04,689 these people. It's not just about, you know, you write -546 +527 00:24:04,719 --> 00:24:06,413 something, and then merge requests, and then you, you -547 +528 00:24:06,413 --> 00:24:08,107 know, -548 +529 00:24:08,229 --> 00:24:11,378 you go off somewhere, you know? It's about building those -549 +530 00:24:11,378 --> 00:24:12,500 relationships, you know? -550 +531 00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:12,700 Bekah: Yeah. -551 +532 00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:15,269 Chad: That's- that's what I would say. Sorry -552 +533 00:24:15,269 --> 00:24:15,509 for cutting you out. -553 -00:24:16,144 --> 00:24:17,523 +534 +00:24:16,144 --> 00:24:18,902 Bekah: No, no, no. I love that. -I love focusing -- especially - -554 -00:24:17,523 --> 00:24:18,902 -for +I love focusing-- especially for -555 +535 00:24:18,903 --> 00:24:22,084 first time contributors on that interaction, on the community -556 +536 00:24:22,084 --> 00:24:26,433 -building of things, because +building of things because getting into open source can be -557 +537 00:24:26,433 --> 00:24:30,574 really nerve-wracking or seem -really hard to do, but you're +really hard to do. But you're -558 +538 00:24:30,574 --> 00:24:33,544 right. If you find that right community, it makes it a lot -559 +539 00:24:33,548 --> 00:24:36,394 easier for you and you are building those relationships. -560 +540 00:24:36,723 --> 00:24:39,155 And, you know, i-if we look at even some of the larger open -561 +541 00:24:39,155 --> 00:24:41,587 source -562 +542 00:24:41,588 --> 00:24:45,759 projects, sometimes- sometimes there's a need for smaller -563 -00:24:45,759 --> 00:24:47,844 +543 +00:24:45,759 --> 00:24:49,929 contributions or sometimes their first time contributor issues -564 -00:24:47,844 --> 00:24:49,929 -are - -565 +544 00:24:49,959 --> 00:24:52,929 -exactly like what you were +are exactly like what you were talking about. Like, "I have no -566 +545 00:24:52,933 --> 00:24:56,499 idea what you're talking about. This is not for me." And then -567 +546 00:24:56,499 --> 00:24:59,753 that's okay, you know? There are other opportunities out there. -568 +547 00:24:59,993 --> 00:25:02,693 And this is one of my pet peeves -where people are like, this is +where people are, like, this is -569 +548 00:25:02,693 --> 00:25:04,103 not in the spirit of Hacktoberfest. And they wanna -570 +549 00:25:04,103 --> 00:25:05,513 say like, -571 +550 00:25:05,753 --> 00:25:07,733 "Oh, you can't make a contribution that looks like -572 +551 00:25:07,733 --> 00:25:09,713 this or that. Just -573 +552 00:25:09,713 --> 00:25:15,338 changes one thing." And I- I think that maybe that's how you -574 +553 00:25:15,338 --> 00:25:17,453 feel about your project, but that doesn't necessarily apply -575 +554 00:25:17,453 --> 00:25:19,568 to -576 +555 00:25:19,568 --> 00:25:22,568 other people's projects. There are a lot of projects out there -577 +556 00:25:22,868 --> 00:25:26,709 that are community run, that are people who are trying to -578 +557 00:25:26,709 --> 00:25:28,489 collaborate, and work together, and support other people. So -579 +558 00:25:28,489 --> 00:25:30,269 there -580 +559 00:25:30,429 --> 00:25:34,118 are lots of different projects. There's different approaches to -581 +560 00:25:34,118 --> 00:25:38,318 open source contribution. And finding that community that's -582 +561 00:25:38,318 --> 00:25:41,138 going to support you is going to help you to make that -583 +562 00:25:41,548 --> 00:25:41,949 contribution. -584 -00:25:43,378 --> 00:25:44,728 +563 +00:25:43,378 --> 00:25:46,078 Chad: Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree. And I'd like to touch on -585 -00:25:44,728 --> 00:25:46,078 -a - -586 +564 00:25:46,078 --> 00:25:48,073 -little bit about, you know, +a little bit about, you know, there are a lot of kind of -587 +565 00:25:48,073 --> 00:25:50,068 community -588 +566 00:25:50,074 --> 00:25:53,141 run projects. I've been there. -So, [chuckles] this is- this is +So, [chuckles] this is-- this is -589 +567 00:25:53,141 --> 00:25:56,208 kind of funny. -590 +568 00:25:56,269 --> 00:25:58,428 -I went through -- just looking -up a lot of interview prep +I went through-- just looking up +a lot of interview prep -591 +569 00:25:58,428 --> 00:26:00,587 stuff. -592 -00:26:00,594 --> 00:26:02,496 +570 +00:26:00,594 --> 00:26:04,398 Cuz to be quite honest, I did a -lot of that within the last -- - -593 -00:26:02,496 --> 00:26:04,398 -not +lot of that within the last-- -594 +571 00:26:04,403 --> 00:26:06,275 -within the last couple of +not within the last couple of months, but years prior, I was -595 +572 00:26:06,275 --> 00:26:08,147 doing -596 +573 00:26:08,148 --> 00:26:11,261 a lot of interview prep. And there are so many kind of, you -597 +574 00:26:11,261 --> 00:26:14,374 know, -598 +575 00:26:14,374 --> 00:26:16,354 -thing -- I don't know if they're +thing-- I don't know if they're necessarily open source -599 +576 00:26:16,354 --> 00:26:18,334 projects, -600 -00:26:18,334 --> 00:26:19,181 +577 +00:26:18,334 --> 00:26:20,028 but they're projects that, you know, have the GitHub that's, -601 -00:26:19,181 --> 00:26:20,028 -you - -602 +578 00:26:20,028 --> 00:26:21,722 -know, +you know, -603 +579 00:26:21,723 --> 00:26:23,808 open to the world. And, you know, like, as far as I know, -604 +580 00:26:23,808 --> 00:26:25,893 it's not -605 +581 00:26:25,894 --> 00:26:27,948 a paid product, you know? I -think it's -- yeah. I don't +think it's-- yeah. I don't -606 +582 00:26:27,948 --> 00:26:30,002 think it's -607 +583 00:26:30,009 --> 00:26:31,671 a paid product. Like, for -instance, there- there's- +instance, there-- there's- -608 +584 00:26:31,671 --> 00:26:33,333 there's the -609 +585 00:26:33,334 --> 00:26:36,483 -algorithms, which is something +algorithms which is something that I just recently found out -610 +586 00:26:36,753 --> 00:26:41,568 about, which is literally a project of a bunch of kinda data -611 +587 00:26:41,568 --> 00:26:46,788 structures and algorithms that you would see in interviews. -612 +588 00:26:47,388 --> 00:26:50,689 -And it's like a huge kinda log +And it's, like, a huge kinda log of them in different languages. -613 +589 00:26:51,108 --> 00:26:54,169 You know what I mean? And as far as I know, that's not a paid -614 +590 00:26:54,169 --> 00:26:55,638 product. It's just out there, -you know? And like, I was +you know? And, like, I was -615 +591 00:26:55,638 --> 00:26:57,107 bookmarking -616 +592 00:26:57,108 --> 00:26:58,563 a bunch of these things. But -there's that- there's that. +there's that-- there's that. -617 +593 00:26:58,563 --> 00:27:00,018 Like, -618 +594 00:27:00,019 --> 00:27:04,489 -there's the- the- the -- what -you call it? The tech interview +there's the- the- the-- what you +call it? The tech interview -619 +595 00:27:04,489 --> 00:27:07,114 -handbook, which kind of gives -you like a real -- you know, +handbook which kind of gives you +like a real-- you know, -620 +596 00:27:07,114 --> 00:27:09,739 it's a -621 +597 00:27:09,739 --> 00:27:13,429 great breakdown of how interviewing is, how you study, -622 +598 00:27:13,608 --> 00:27:15,273 -you know? What you -- what -people are- are looking. Funny +you know? What you-- what people +are- are looking. Funny -623 +599 00:27:15,273 --> 00:27:16,938 enough. -624 +600 00:27:16,969 --> 00:27:21,499 -The thing that I -- that draw me -to that was, you know, what, you +The thing that I-- that draw me +to that was, you know, what-- -625 +601 00:27:21,499 --> 00:27:23,329 -know, there -- they -- it +you know, there-- they-- it described, like, how people are- -626 +602 00:27:23,329 --> 00:27:25,159 are kind of -627 +603 00:27:25,163 --> 00:27:28,788 looking- looking at you, at, -like, big tech interview -- the- +like, big tech interview-- the- -628 +604 00:27:28,788 --> 00:27:30,078 the point I'm making is all of those things, when you look at -629 +605 00:27:30,078 --> 00:27:31,368 them on -630 +606 00:27:31,368 --> 00:27:35,300 -GitHub, they're really just like -markdown files, you know? I +GitHub, they're really just, +like, markdown files, you know? -631 +607 00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:35,778 -think they are. But +I think they are. But -632 +608 00:27:36,019 --> 00:27:38,449 -they're- they're not like +they're- they're not, like, anything crazy, you know? You're -633 +609 00:27:38,449 --> 00:27:42,979 -not like using Redux to- to +not, like, using Redux to- to display all of this information, -634 +610 00:27:42,979 --> 00:27:45,431 you know what I mean? But those -projects like that have hundreds +projects, like, that have -635 +611 00:27:45,431 --> 00:27:47,883 -of +hundreds of -636 +612 00:27:47,884 --> 00:27:51,903 contributors. And, you know, like, you can contribute to that -637 +613 00:27:51,903 --> 00:27:55,233 project. Say- say for instance, you've done a massive amount of -638 +614 00:27:55,233 --> 00:27:56,808 interviewing — to- to kind of stay in context — the ma- -639 +615 00:27:56,808 --> 00:27:58,383 massive -640 +616 00:27:58,384 --> 00:28:02,223 -amount of interviewing, and you +amount of interviewing and you feel like there's an issue here, -641 +617 00:28:03,233 --> 00:28:06,084 issue with some of the information here, you could most -642 +618 00:28:06,084 --> 00:28:08,018 definitely reach out or- or- or apply a change. And I- I mean, -643 +619 00:28:08,018 --> 00:28:09,952 even -644 +620 00:28:09,953 --> 00:28:11,993 -then, it's like, all of this is +then, it's, like, all of this is kinda talking about -645 +621 00:28:11,993 --> 00:28:13,808 information, right? So, you -know, say there's like typos or +know, say there's, like, typos -646 +622 00:28:13,808 --> 00:28:15,623 -it's +or it's -647 +623 00:28:15,624 --> 00:28:19,163 just not as clear, you can definitely just, you know, clear -648 +624 00:28:19,163 --> 00:28:21,883 up that information or reach out -to whoever. And- and like, that +to whoever. And- and, like, that -649 +625 00:28:21,883 --> 00:28:24,603 isn't -650 +626 00:28:24,604 --> 00:28:26,719 necessarily code in the se- in- in the sense that most people -651 +627 00:28:26,719 --> 00:28:28,834 think -652 +628 00:28:28,834 --> 00:28:31,804 of open source projects. When people think of open s- or -653 +629 00:28:31,804 --> 00:28:33,663 contributing to open source projects, they think about -654 +630 00:28:33,663 --> 00:28:35,522 adding -655 +631 00:28:35,523 --> 00:28:42,213 a feature or refactoring. Very much like code, you know? Very -656 +632 00:28:42,213 --> 00:28:47,493 much like that very particular -use case. When there's -- like I +use case. When there's-- like I -657 +633 00:28:47,499 --> 00:28:49,806 said, there's a whole breadth of -things that you can- you can- +things that you can-- you can-- -658 +634 00:28:49,806 --> 00:28:52,113 -you +you can -659 +635 00:28:52,118 --> 00:28:56,284 -can do. And I mean, we're- we're --- even- even this conversation, +do. And I mean, we're- we're-- +even- even this conversation, -660 -00:28:56,284 --> 00:28:58,101 -we're kinda talking about the -- +636 +00:28:56,284 --> 00:28:59,918 +we're kinda talking about the-- at least, the- the way I'm kind -661 -00:28:58,101 --> 00:28:59,918 -of - -662 +637 00:28:59,923 --> 00:29:03,038 -thinking about it is like, if +of thinking about it is like if you're doing open source, you're -663 +638 00:29:03,098 --> 00:29:06,308 literally on GitHub, you literally go to the project, and -664 +639 00:29:06,308 --> 00:29:07,898 -then it's just like, however, -right? But, you know, if you're +then it's just, like, however, +right? But, you know, if -665 +640 00:29:07,898 --> 00:29:09,488 --- +you're-- -666 +641 00:29:09,759 --> 00:29:13,209 if the- the open source project has a community, you know, you -667 +642 00:29:13,209 --> 00:29:15,293 may not necessarily even be on GitHub, you know? Like, you -668 +643 00:29:15,293 --> 00:29:17,377 -could +could be-- -669 +644 00:29:17,384 --> 00:29:20,528 -be- you could be a part of their +you could be a part of their Discord, and you could be, like, -670 +645 00:29:20,528 --> 00:29:23,558 -moderating their Discord, and +moderating their Discord and something like that, you know? -671 +646 00:29:23,648 --> 00:29:26,648 Like, that's still contr- contributing, you know what I -672 +647 00:29:26,648 --> 00:29:29,443 -mean? So, like, I just -- I -guess I just wanted to- to- to, +mean? So, like, I just-- I guess +I just wanted to- to- to, -673 +648 00:29:29,443 --> 00:29:32,238 again, -674 +649 00:29:32,239 --> 00:29:36,558 reemphasize that there's a lot of things that you can do to -675 +650 00:29:36,564 --> 00:29:40,909 contribute to community, you -know? Like it's, again, it's not +know? Like, it's, again, it's -676 +651 00:29:40,909 --> 00:29:44,500 -just writing co- I wanna say +not just writing co- I wanna say JavaScripts of that [Bekah -677 +652 00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:44,929 chuckles]. It's not -678 +653 00:29:44,929 --> 00:29:47,778 just writing JavaScript, you know what I mean? It's just not -679 +654 00:29:47,808 --> 00:29:51,949 writing code. Like, there's a -lot of ways you can- you can +lot of ways you can-- you can -680 +655 00:29:51,949 --> 00:29:54,266 contribute and it's just keeping that open mind of the- the- the, -681 +656 00:29:54,266 --> 00:29:56,583 you know, -682 +657 00:29:56,733 --> 00:30:00,000 the- the needs of the- the- the maintainer. -683 +658 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:00,300 Bekah: Yeah. -684 +659 00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:01,294 Chad: That's pretty much it. -685 +660 00:30:01,443 --> 00:30:03,303 Dan: Yeah, I love that. You know, and- and Virtual Coffee -686 +661 00:30:03,303 --> 00:30:05,163 [chuckles] for -687 +662 00:30:05,163 --> 00:30:06,753 example, right? And we have lots -of volunteers that are -- that +of volunteers that are-- that -688 +663 00:30:06,753 --> 00:30:08,343 help -689 +664 00:30:08,344 --> 00:30:10,038 our community. But also, like, our- our site is open source. -690 +665 00:30:10,038 --> 00:30:11,732 And ... -691 +666 00:30:12,483 --> 00:30:13,683 I don't know. Like, 80% of the files are just content, you -692 +667 00:30:13,683 --> 00:30:14,883 know what I mean? -693 -00:30:14,884 --> 00:30:16,999 -Just -- and it -- I suppose it's -code - -694 -00:30:16,999 --> 00:30:19,114 -technically or +668 +00:30:14,884 --> 00:30:19,114 +Just-- and it-- I suppose it's +code technically or -695 +669 00:30:19,114 --> 00:30:20,388 something [chuckles], you know? -But it's -- like, the- the +But it's-- like, the- the -696 +670 00:30:20,388 --> 00:30:21,662 valuable parts of -697 +671 00:30:21,663 --> 00:30:23,673 -it are the- are the words, +it are the-- are the words, right? Are the content, you -698 +672 00:30:23,673 --> 00:30:25,683 know? And ... -699 +673 00:30:26,584 --> 00:30:28,953 I- I mean, I love that advice. I think it's great and very -700 +674 00:30:28,953 --> 00:30:30,933 important to keep in mind. And -also, it's like -- sometimes — +also, it's, like-- sometimes — -701 +675 00:30:30,939 --> 00:30:32,451 especially when you get into docs and stuff like that is — -702 +676 00:30:32,451 --> 00:30:33,963 sometimes -703 +677 00:30:33,963 --> 00:30:38,074 really hard for maintainers to keep up to date or to make, you -704 -00:30:38,074 --> 00:30:41,824 -know, like to catch all the edge -cases and the things like that. +678 +00:30:38,074 --> 00:30:39,949 +know, like, to catch all the +edge cases and the things like -705 +679 +00:30:39,949 --> 00:30:41,824 +that. + +680 00:30:41,854 --> 00:30:45,094 Ayu from Virtual Coffee is really good at this shit. You -706 +681 00:30:45,094 --> 00:30:46,668 know, how many times have you -done, like, some install -- +done, like, some install-- -707 +682 00:30:46,668 --> 00:30:48,242 followed -708 -00:30:48,249 --> 00:30:49,566 +683 +00:30:48,249 --> 00:30:50,883 the README, right? Done some install thing, and it didn't -709 -00:30:49,566 --> 00:30:50,883 -work, - -710 +684 00:30:50,884 --> 00:30:52,308 -and you had to like Google +work, and you had to like Google around, and try a couple -711 +685 00:30:52,308 --> 00:30:53,732 different things -712 +686 00:30:53,733 --> 00:30:56,554 to get something to work, right? And then, what I do most of the -713 +687 00:30:56,554 --> 00:30:57,768 time is just, "Okay, cool. I got it working. I'll just move on," -714 +688 00:30:57,768 --> 00:30:58,982 [chuckles] -715 +689 00:30:58,983 --> 00:31:00,453 you know? But how val- how much, like, it would be a very easy -716 +690 00:31:00,453 --> 00:31:01,923 and -717 +691 00:31:01,923 --> 00:31:04,458 valuable contribution to that- that project to just go back and -718 +692 00:31:04,458 --> 00:31:06,993 -add +add, like, -719 +693 00:31:07,054 --> 00:31:09,574 -like a- a pull request that just -adds a little note in the README +a- a pull request that just adds +a little note in the README -720 +694 00:31:09,574 --> 00:31:12,453 that says, "Hey, if you run into this error, try this fix," you -721 +695 00:31:12,453 --> 00:31:16,413 know what I mean? And I think that's the kind of thing -722 +696 00:31:16,413 --> 00:31:19,983 that a lot of people maybe don't -consider right away. But it -- +consider right away. But it-- -723 +697 00:31:20,733 --> 00:31:21,000 -I don't know. Can be -- +I don't know, can be-- -724 -00:31:20,808 --> 00:31:21,933 +698 +00:31:20,808 --> 00:31:23,058 Bekah: Kinda like that error that I have running the Virtual -725 -00:31:21,933 --> 00:31:23,058 -Coffee - -726 +699 00:31:23,058 --> 00:31:25,098 -site that I still haven't +Coffee site that I still haven't [chuckles] done anything about? -727 +700 00:31:25,413 --> 00:31:26,238 Dan: Right. Well, that's a whole -different ... yeah, issue -- +different ... yeah, issue-- -728 +701 00:31:26,238 --> 00:31:27,063 situation. -729 +702 00:31:27,378 --> 00:31:28,939 Bekah: No, that's a Netlify CLI issue actually. -730 +703 00:31:29,054 --> 00:31:30,549 Dan: Yeah. Yeah. But- but- but it is the same thing. I mean, -731 +704 00:31:30,549 --> 00:31:32,044 -like +like, -732 +705 00:31:32,044 --> 00:31:33,738 -it's- it's the same thing. Like, -okay. Like, maybe that is +it's- it's the same thing. +Like-- okay. Like, maybe that is -733 +706 00:31:33,738 --> 00:31:35,432 something we -734 +707 00:31:35,433 --> 00:31:36,723 -need to add. Cuz other people -- +need to add. Cuz other people-- most people don't have the -735 +708 00:31:36,723 --> 00:31:38,013 Netlify -736 +709 00:31:38,013 --> 00:31:40,218 CLI installed, like, to start -and -- but you already did. And +and-- but you already did. And -737 +710 00:31:40,218 --> 00:31:42,423 so -738 +711 00:31:42,423 --> 00:31:46,354 there's something going on and maybe there's some note we need -739 -00:31:46,354 --> 00:31:47,959 +712 +00:31:46,354 --> 00:31:49,564 to add or some parameter to add to the install steps, you know? -740 -00:31:47,959 --> 00:31:49,564 -I - -741 +713 00:31:49,564 --> 00:31:51,000 -don't know. I don't know what it -is, but like, even- +I don't know. I don't know what +it is but, like, even- -742 +714 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:51,300 Bekah: Yeah [chuckles]. -743 +715 00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:51,723 Dan: -just bringing -744 +716 00:31:51,723 --> 00:31:54,273 it up in issue, like, even honestly, writing an issue is -745 +717 00:31:54,273 --> 00:31:55,000 contributing to an open source. -746 +718 00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:55,800 Bekah: Yes. -747 +719 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,084 Dan: Like, not fixing it, not- not -748 -00:31:58,084 --> 00:32:00,506 -knowing the solution, but just -like logging a problem. It can - -749 -00:32:00,506 --> 00:32:02,928 -be +720 +00:31:58,084 --> 00:32:02,928 +knowing the solution, but just, +like, logging a problem. It can -750 +721 00:32:02,989 --> 00:32:04,548 -a very valuable contribution to -[chuckles] an open source +be a very valuable contribution +to [chuckles] an open source -751 +722 00:32:04,548 --> 00:32:06,107 project -752 +723 00:32:06,108 --> 00:32:07,623 -because, most likely the +because most likely, the maintainer doesn't know about -753 +724 00:32:07,623 --> 00:32:09,138 it, you know? -754 +725 00:32:09,199 --> 00:32:13,759 Our maintainers don't know about -it. Like the -- or they do and +it. Like, the-- or they do and -755 +726 00:32:13,818 --> 00:32:20,209 they forgot or [chuckles], you -know, anything. And I- I- I -- +know, anything. And I- I- I-- -756 +727 00:32:20,269 --> 00:32:21,408 yeah, I don't know. I- I think everything you said is- is -757 +728 00:32:21,408 --> 00:32:22,547 right. -758 +729 00:32:22,548 --> 00:32:26,689 And I- I think it's great. I love that also. I just talk a -759 +730 00:32:26,689 --> 00:32:30,078 little bit more. I love that idea about helping- helping -760 +731 00:32:30,439 --> 00:32:33,618 maintainers in areas outside of -GitHub even, and how valuable +GitHub even and how valuable -761 +732 00:32:33,618 --> 00:32:37,398 -that can be. I think- I think +that can be. I think-- I think that's another thing that people -762 +733 00:32:37,398 --> 00:32:40,128 don't maybe always think about. But asking maintainers if they -763 +734 00:32:40,128 --> 00:32:44,388 need help outside of writing code, it can be nice and it -764 -00:32:44,388 --> 00:32:47,179 +735 +00:32:44,388 --> 00:32:45,783 can be nice- nice to, like, have -somebody to reach out- reach out +somebody to reach out-- reach -765 +736 +00:32:45,783 --> 00:32:47,178 +out + +737 00:32:47,183 --> 00:32:48,726 [chuckles] to you too, you know, sometimes. Say, "Hey, do you -766 +738 00:32:48,726 --> 00:32:50,269 need any help -767 +739 00:32:50,269 --> 00:32:52,548 -with this?" Even if- even if -they say no, it's- it's like a +with this?" Even if-- even if +they say no, it's- it's, like, a -768 +740 00:32:52,548 --> 00:32:54,798 nice ... I don't know. Nice gesture. -769 +741 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:55,200 -Chad: Yeah -- +Chad: Yeah-- -770 +742 00:32:55,233 --> 00:32:55,894 -Bekah: Yeah, I -- +Bekah: Yeah, I-- -771 +743 00:32:56,443 --> 00:32:56,923 Chad: Oh, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. -772 +744 00:32:57,034 --> 00:33:00,183 Bekah: Sorry. I- I gave a talk on ... I think it was called Do -773 +745 00:33:00,183 --> 00:33:03,604 You Need Community? And it was from the perspective of if -774 +746 00:33:03,604 --> 00:33:07,354 -you're maybe getting into code, +you're maybe getting into code or if you are in tech and you -775 +747 00:33:07,354 --> 00:33:09,109 don't have a community, what- what would be the reasons and -776 +748 00:33:09,109 --> 00:33:10,864 the -777 +749 00:33:10,864 --> 00:33:14,223 benefits. And part of that, I talked about getting involved in -778 +750 00:33:14,223 --> 00:33:15,963 organizations. And sometimes people say like, "Hey, do you -779 +751 00:33:15,963 --> 00:33:17,703 need -780 +752 00:33:17,709 --> 00:33:20,374 any help?" And there's so much overwhelmed sometimes as a -781 +753 00:33:20,378 --> 00:33:21,530 maintainer that it's like, "Yeah, but I don't even know -782 +754 00:33:21,530 --> 00:33:22,682 where to -783 +755 00:33:22,683 --> 00:33:26,673 start," right? And so being more specific like, "Hey, do you need -784 +756 00:33:26,679 --> 00:33:29,253 any help? I'm really good at building chat bots. And I think -785 +757 00:33:29,253 --> 00:33:30,678 this could be really beneficial." Like, giving that -786 +758 00:33:30,678 --> 00:33:32,103 specific thing -787 +759 00:33:32,104 --> 00:33:34,701 or, "Hey, I like to post on social media. Can I write some -788 +760 00:33:34,701 --> 00:33:37,298 tweets -789 +761 00:33:37,298 --> 00:33:39,293 for you?" And, you know, you're not getting a green box for -790 +762 00:33:39,293 --> 00:33:41,288 that. And -791 +763 00:33:41,318 --> 00:33:43,208 I know that it can be really -hard to feel like, "Oh, there -- +hard to feel like, "Oh, there-- -792 +764 00:33:43,208 --> 00:33:45,098 I -793 +765 00:33:45,098 --> 00:33:47,739 -haven't accomplished anything," -but you've supported a community +haven't accomplished anything." +But you've supported a community -794 +766 00:33:47,739 --> 00:33:51,608 of people that- that is -supporting other people. So, and +supporting other people. So-- -795 +767 00:33:51,614 --> 00:33:53,306 -I- I think the -- one of the -things I like too about Virtual +and I- I think the-- one of the +things I like, too, about -796 +768 00:33:53,306 --> 00:33:54,998 -Coffee, +Virtual Coffee, -797 +769 00:33:54,999 --> 00:33:58,838 our members page just keeps evolving into something better -798 +770 00:33:58,838 --> 00:34:00,668 and better because we have our members who have to create a -799 +771 00:34:00,668 --> 00:34:02,498 pull -800 +772 00:34:02,499 --> 00:34:07,209 request to get their profile on our mem- members page. But then -801 +773 00:34:07,568 --> 00:34:12,759 last year, the issue was you can add your social links. And -802 +774 00:34:12,759 --> 00:34:16,478 we've updated it with all of our active volunteers. So, you know, -803 +775 00:34:16,483 --> 00:34:20,943 -like finding ways to also +like, finding ways to also support the people who are -804 +776 00:34:20,943 --> 00:34:24,094 supporting your project in other ways is incredibly important as -805 +777 00:34:24,094 --> 00:34:24,483 well. -806 +778 00:34:25,768 --> 00:34:29,938 Chad: I agree. I agree. And I also want to kind of reiterate -807 +779 00:34:29,938 --> 00:34:34,588 -that, like, you know, you- you --- for- for the people who are - -808 -00:34:34,588 --> 00:34:36,508 -actually contributing code, they --- a lot of those people do that +that, like, you know, you- you-- +for- for the people who are -809 -00:34:36,508 --> 00:34:38,428 -to +780 +00:34:34,588 --> 00:34:38,428 +actually contributing code, +they-- a lot of those people do -810 +781 00:34:38,458 --> 00:34:39,700 -improve their skills, right? +that to improve their skills, +right? -811 +782 00:34:39,700 --> 00:34:39,900 Bekah: Mm. -812 +783 00:34:39,900 --> 00:34:41,909 Chad: To come across problems that they -813 +784 00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:44,608 generally wouldn't come across or be more difficult for them to -814 +785 00:34:44,608 --> 00:34:48,240 come across o-on their own, right? But I think the most -815 +786 00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:51,872 important -816 +787 00:34:51,873 --> 00:34:57,934 part of open source as a -contributor is to -- is that +contributor is to-- is that -817 +788 00:34:57,934 --> 00:34:59,839 interaction. The interaction with people, you know what I -818 +789 00:34:59,839 --> 00:35:01,744 mean? And -819 +790 00:35:01,748 --> 00:35:05,434 -so definitely being -- having -something where it's like, okay, +so definitely being-- having +something where it's like-- -820 +791 00:35:05,434 --> 00:35:06,903 -you reach out to the +okay, you reach out to the maintainers. It's like, "Hey, I -821 +792 00:35:06,903 --> 00:35:08,372 can do this," -822 +793 00:35:08,373 --> 00:35:09,858 you know? Like you were saying, -you know? "I can- I can do +you know? "I can-- I can do -823 +794 00:35:09,858 --> 00:35:11,343 tweets," -824 -00:35:11,344 --> 00:35:13,721 +795 +00:35:11,344 --> 00:35:16,098 and so on and so forth. Like, that interaction is so valuable. -825 -00:35:13,721 --> 00:35:16,098 -And - -826 +796 00:35:16,099 --> 00:35:18,528 -the con- that consistency of +And the con- that consistency of interaction is so valuable. -827 +797 00:35:18,528 --> 00:35:20,957 Like, -828 +798 00:35:21,168 --> 00:35:23,958 -you'd be surprised, you'd be- -you'd be maintaining a project, +you'd be surprised, you'd be-- +you'd be maintaining a project -829 +799 00:35:23,958 --> 00:35:25,248 and there's just somebody who, -you know, you- you know them- +you know, you- you know them-- -830 +800 00:35:25,248 --> 00:35:26,538 you -831 +801 00:35:26,539 --> 00:35:28,716 know them casually and then they -turn out to be -- well, 50% of +turn out to be-- well, 50% of -832 +802 00:35:28,716 --> 00:35:30,893 the -833 +803 00:35:30,893 --> 00:35:35,333 time, they turn on to be, you know, your- your next employer -834 +804 00:35:35,333 --> 00:35:38,123 because they're now op- offering you an opportunity. I- I was -835 -00:35:38,123 --> 00:35:39,653 +805 +00:35:38,123 --> 00:35:41,183 watching a video recently, you -know, I'm just going to be -- I +know, I'm just going to be-- I -836 -00:35:39,653 --> 00:35:41,183 -was - -837 -00:35:41,184 --> 00:35:43,242 -watching a video from Open -Sauced recently, where -- I - -838 -00:35:43,242 --> 00:35:45,300 -don't +806 +00:35:41,184 --> 00:35:45,300 +was watching a video from +OpenSauced recently, where-- I -839 +807 00:35:45,300 --> 00:35:46,284 -remember who he +don't remember who he -840 +808 00:35:46,284 --> 00:35:51,923 was or who Brian was talking to, but he was talking about how -841 +809 00:35:51,923 --> 00:35:54,263 we had an open source project and, like, it became more and -842 +810 00:35:54,263 --> 00:35:56,603 -more of a- +more of a-- -843 +811 00:35:57,844 --> 00:36:01,414 -of a -- I don't remember exactly +of a-- I don't remember exactly the- the- the circumstances. But -844 +812 00:36:01,594 --> 00:36:03,633 -he -- and he started hiring a -lot of people because he had +he-- and he started hiring a lot +of people because he had -845 +813 00:36:03,633 --> 00:36:05,672 somebody -846 +814 00:36:05,679 --> 00:36:06,951 -who was -- he had started hiring --- not a lot of people. He +who was-- he had started +hiring-- not a lot of people. He -847 +815 00:36:06,951 --> 00:36:08,223 started -848 +816 00:36:08,224 --> 00:36:12,603 hiring from his contributors because his contributors were -849 +817 00:36:12,693 --> 00:36:14,298 very consistent, they were -excellent, you know, in what the +excellent, you know, in what -850 +818 00:36:14,298 --> 00:36:15,903 --- +the-- -851 +819 00:36:15,903 --> 00:36:17,403 in their contributions. And he -just -- he was just like, "Hey, +just-- he was just like, "Hey, -852 +820 00:36:17,403 --> 00:36:18,903 you -853 +821 00:36:18,903 --> 00:36:21,153 -want to, you want a full time +want to-- you want a full time job?" And they were like, "Yeah, -854 +822 00:36:21,153 --> 00:36:23,876 sure." And that's how they found their next opportunity, you -855 +823 00:36:23,876 --> 00:36:26,599 know? -856 +824 00:36:26,599 --> 00:36:32,119 -And so, it's really about those +And so it's really about those relationships, you know? As a -857 +825 00:36:32,119 --> 00:36:33,693 -contributor. As a- as a +contributor. As a-- as a maintainer, you know, like, -858 +826 00:36:33,693 --> 00:36:35,267 that's -859 +827 00:36:35,268 --> 00:36:38,329 -a -- I don't want to talk about +a-- I don't want to talk about that too much cuz that's just -860 +828 00:36:38,329 --> 00:36:39,994 -not -- I don't have the +not-- I don't have the experience there. But as a -861 +829 00:36:39,994 --> 00:36:41,659 contributor, it's -862 -00:36:41,659 --> 00:36:43,459 +830 +00:36:41,659 --> 00:36:45,259 about building those relationships. And, like, it's -863 -00:36:43,459 --> 00:36:45,259 -just - -864 -00:36:45,259 --> 00:36:47,534 -a different avenue of- of +831 +00:36:45,259 --> 00:36:49,809 +just a different avenue of- of building those relationships -865 -00:36:47,534 --> 00:36:49,809 -with - -866 -00:36:49,809 --> 00:36:51,518 -people. And then, you know, -showing that, you know, like -- - -867 -00:36:51,518 --> 00:36:53,227 -I +832 +00:36:49,809 --> 00:36:53,227 +with people. And then, you know, +showing that, you know, like-- I -868 +833 00:36:53,228 --> 00:36:56,588 guess going back to- to coding, showing that, you know, you can -869 +834 00:36:56,588 --> 00:36:58,313 -code — that's like one of the +code — that's, like, one of the big issues, the big problems -870 +835 00:36:58,313 --> 00:37:00,038 with- -871 +836 00:37:00,039 --> 00:37:01,958 with junior developers trying to get positions — is that, -872 +837 00:37:01,958 --> 00:37:03,877 effectively, -873 +838 00:37:03,878 --> 00:37:06,849 they have to prove that they- they know how to code and they -874 +839 00:37:06,849 --> 00:37:08,423 can just be like, "Hey, look at my contribution to this open -875 +840 00:37:08,423 --> 00:37:09,997 -source +source project -876 +841 00:37:09,998 --> 00:37:13,119 -project that got, you know, that -got merged and is being used in +that got," you know, "that got +merged, and is being used in -877 +842 00:37:13,123 --> 00:37:14,993 -the project right now and has my -name on it," you know? "I can +the project right now, and has +my name on it," you know? "I can -878 +843 00:37:14,993 --> 00:37:16,863 -code," [laughs] you - -879 -00:37:16,864 --> 00:37:19,983 -know what I mean? Like -- so -- -like, it's just, yeah. It's just +code," [laughs] you know -880 -00:37:19,983 --> 00:37:23,102 --- it's +844 +00:37:16,864 --> 00:37:23,102 +what I mean? Like-- so, like, +it's just-- yeah. It's just-- -881 +845 00:37:23,103 --> 00:37:25,143 -about building those +it's about building those relationships. Those -882 +846 00:37:25,143 --> 00:37:27,888 relationships will- will definitely take you far. A-at -883 +847 00:37:27,888 --> 00:37:30,633 least -884 -00:37:30,634 --> 00:37:32,193 -in my- in my opinion, that's -like one of the biggest things - -885 -00:37:32,193 --> 00:37:33,752 -for- +848 +00:37:30,634 --> 00:37:33,752 +in my-- in my opinion, that's, +like, one of the biggest things -886 +849 00:37:33,753 --> 00:37:33,903 -for- for -- +for- for- for-- -887 +850 00:37:34,324 --> 00:37:35,703 Dan: Yeah. A-and- and not just -proving you can code, but +proving you can code but -888 +851 00:37:35,703 --> 00:37:37,082 proving that you have -889 +852 00:37:37,143 --> 00:37:38,793 drive, and can operate on your own, and things like that as -890 +853 00:37:38,793 --> 00:37:40,443 well. -891 +854 00:37:41,313 --> 00:37:43,293 A-and you're interested in it, -and, you know, I- I- I think- I +and, you know, I- I- I think-- I -892 +855 00:37:43,293 --> 00:37:45,273 think that -893 +856 00:37:45,483 --> 00:37:48,611 sort of ... I don't know. A- a- a full [chuckles], you know, I -894 +857 00:37:48,611 --> 00:37:51,739 -don't- I don't wanna say, +don't-- I don't wanna say, -895 -00:37:51,739 --> 00:37:53,344 +858 +00:37:51,739 --> 00:37:54,949 like, all- all the green squares -are green, but like, you know- - -896 -00:37:53,344 --> 00:37:54,949 -you +are green but, like, you know-- -897 +859 00:37:54,954 --> 00:37:57,228 -know, a full, like, GitHub +you know, a full, like, GitHub profile where you have a lot of -898 +860 00:37:57,228 --> 00:38:01,309 contributions to some things can go a really long way to -899 +861 00:38:01,309 --> 00:38:03,198 -showing that -- y-you know, even -if you're not, like, write -- +showing that-- y-you know, even +if you're not, like, write-- -900 +862 00:38:03,198 --> 00:38:05,087 like you -901 +863 00:38:05,088 --> 00:38:06,948 said, like, rewriting the React -code base, you know? [Laughs] +codebase, you know? [Laughs] -902 +864 00:38:06,948 --> 00:38:08,808 Like, it- -903 +865 00:38:08,809 --> 00:38:09,964 it doesn't have to be like that, obviously, e-e-especially when -904 +866 00:38:09,964 --> 00:38:11,119 you're -905 +867 00:38:11,119 --> 00:38:12,948 -starting out. But just like +starting out. But just, like, connecting with people and- and- -906 +868 00:38:12,948 --> 00:38:14,777 and -907 +869 00:38:15,768 --> 00:38:17,388 -contributing in -- I don't know. -I- I, yeah. I agree. It's can be +contributing in-- I don't know. +I- I-- yeah. I agree. It's can -908 +870 00:38:17,388 --> 00:38:19,008 -a +be a -909 +871 00:38:19,009 --> 00:38:21,259 very valuable tool — open source contributions. -910 +872 00:38:21,753 --> 00:38:26,764 Bekah: I know a woman who really wanted to work with a- a pretty -911 +873 00:38:26,764 --> 00:38:31,293 notable tech organization. But their interview process was -912 -00:38:31,293 --> 00:38:33,588 +874 +00:38:31,293 --> 00:38:35,883 notoriously hard. And she knew she would not be able to pass -913 -00:38:33,588 --> 00:38:35,883 -the - -914 -00:38:35,884 --> 00:38:38,368 -interview process. And, you +875 +00:38:35,884 --> 00:38:40,852 +the interview process. And, you know, didn't have time to devote -915 -00:38:38,368 --> 00:38:40,852 -hours - -916 +876 00:38:41,103 --> 00:38:42,918 -and months of her life to -studying for it. And so, she +hours and months of her life to +studying for it. And so she -917 +877 00:38:42,918 --> 00:38:44,733 started -918 +878 00:38:44,733 --> 00:38:46,923 contributing to their open source project. And sure enough, -919 +879 00:38:46,923 --> 00:38:49,113 she got -920 +880 00:38:49,114 --> 00:38:52,143 hired without having to go through that interview process -921 -00:38:52,143 --> 00:38:53,568 +881 +00:38:52,143 --> 00:38:54,993 because she was familiar with -the code base, they knew that +the codebase. They knew that -922 -00:38:53,568 --> 00:38:54,993 -her - -923 -00:38:54,994 --> 00:38:57,034 -work was good, and that she +882 +00:38:54,994 --> 00:38:59,074 +her work was good and that she could- could be a part of the -924 -00:38:57,034 --> 00:38:59,074 -team - -925 +883 00:38:59,074 --> 00:39:01,623 -because of that community +team because of that community collaboration that she already -926 +884 00:39:01,623 --> 00:39:05,193 had. So, I mean, not everybody's gonna let you navigate -927 +885 00:39:05,193 --> 00:39:08,344 around the interview process. But it was really, really great -928 -00:39:08,344 --> 00:39:10,419 +886 +00:39:08,344 --> 00:39:12,494 strategy for, you know, not only -learning more it yourself, but - -929 -00:39:10,419 --> 00:39:12,494 -like +learning more it yourself but -930 +887 00:39:12,494 --> 00:39:16,333 -you're saying, finding new +like you're saying, finding new avenues to job opportunities. -931 -00:39:17,744 --> 00:39:19,454 +888 +00:39:17,744 --> 00:39:21,164 Chad: Agreed. Agreed. I actually -was -- I don't necessarily have +was-- I don't necessarily have -932 -00:39:19,454 --> 00:39:21,164 -a - -933 +889 00:39:21,168 --> 00:39:23,101 -direct story, but I've +a direct story, but I've definitely heard of other people -934 +890 00:39:23,101 --> 00:39:25,034 who've had -935 +891 00:39:25,034 --> 00:39:27,328 -similar experiences, who -- -they- they contributed to- to- +similar experiences, who-- they- +they contributed to- to- -936 +892 00:39:27,328 --> 00:39:29,622 to large -937 +893 00:39:29,623 --> 00:39:34,184 open source projects for pretty -well-known companies, and, you +well-known companies and, you -938 +894 00:39:34,184 --> 00:39:36,001 -know, no interview processes +know, no interview processes, like, "We- we see that you co- -939 +895 00:39:36,001 --> 00:39:37,818 -we see +we see that -940 +896 00:39:37,818 --> 00:39:40,909 -that you can code. We, you know, -we want you to work on this +you can code. We," you know, "we +want you to work on this -941 +897 00:39:40,909 --> 00:39:44,418 thing," you know? So they just brought them on board, you know? -942 +898 00:39:44,449 --> 00:39:47,688 -It wasn't that -- it wasn't a +It wasn't that-- it wasn't a big, crazy thing, you know? They -943 +899 00:39:47,688 --> 00:39:51,528 didn't have to study for- for- for months like you said, you -944 -00:39:51,528 --> 00:39:54,168 -know? Definitely like -- and -from my understanding, that is- - -945 -00:39:54,168 --> 00:39:56,808 -that +900 +00:39:51,528 --> 00:39:56,808 +know? Definitely, like-- and +from my understanding, that is-- -946 +901 00:39:56,809 --> 00:40:00,049 -is not uncommon, you know? Like, -it's not an uncommon +that is not uncommon, you know? +Like, it's not an uncommon -947 +902 00:40:00,049 --> 00:40:03,289 circumstance -948 +903 00:40:03,289 --> 00:40:05,553 -at all, you know? So, definitely --- I definitely, again, you +at all, you know? So, +definitely-- I definitely-- -949 +904 00:40:05,553 --> 00:40:07,817 -know, it's +again, you know, it's -950 +905 00:40:07,824 --> 00:40:11,719 about those relationships. It's about, you know, it's about -951 +906 00:40:12,639 --> 00:40:15,259 building those relationships -with- with- with those- with +with- with- with those-- with -952 +907 00:40:15,259 --> 00:40:19,369 those people, you know? And even with other contributors as well, -953 +908 00:40:19,639 --> 00:40:23,778 you know? Like, how- how many people have- have kind of come- -954 +909 00:40:23,809 --> 00:40:26,688 come to Virtual Coffee and have become friends with each other -955 +910 00:40:27,173 --> 00:40:31,509 because of kind of their- their- their meeting at Virtual Coffee -956 +911 00:40:31,509 --> 00:40:34,989 or doing work with vir- Virtual Coffee, you know what I mean? So -957 -00:40:35,139 --> 00:40:36,939 +912 +00:40:35,139 --> 00:40:38,739 it's definitely about building those relationships. Again, in -958 -00:40:36,939 --> 00:40:38,739 -my - -959 +913 00:40:38,739 --> 00:40:39,068 -opinion. +my opinion. -960 +914 00:40:39,829 --> 00:40:40,879 -Bekah: Yeah. Well, and I think +Bekah: Yeah. Well, and I think, too, one of the great things -961 +915 00:40:40,879 --> 00:40:41,929 about -962 +916 00:40:41,989 --> 00:40:44,599 contributing to open source is also learning how to take -963 -00:40:44,603 --> 00:40:46,655 +917 +00:40:44,603 --> 00:40:48,707 feedback. Because oftentimes, you know, you've got a PR and -964 -00:40:46,655 --> 00:40:48,707 -it's - -965 +918 00:40:48,708 --> 00:40:51,259 -not going to be perfect. So +it's not going to be perfect. So you'll be getting some feedback. -966 +919 00:40:51,528 --> 00:40:54,289 Do you have any experience with that? And, you know, like, has -967 +920 00:40:54,289 --> 00:40:57,108 that helped you develop as a developer [laughs]? -968 +921 00:40:58,233 --> 00:41:01,353 Chad: It has definitely not helped me develop as a developer -969 +922 00:41:01,353 --> 00:41:04,000 -because that'd -- no, I'm just -[Chad and Bekah laugh]. Yeah, +because that'd-- no, I'm just +[Chad and Bekah laugh]-- yeah, -970 +923 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:05,103 -I've gotten -- I've +I've gotten-- I've -971 +924 00:41:05,103 --> 00:41:09,543 definitely gotten feedback. Like, one of the kinda key -972 +925 00:41:09,543 --> 00:41:12,873 things about just being coachable, you know? And again, -973 +926 00:41:12,963 --> 00:41:18,934 like, because it's a learning experience, you know? Like, I -974 +927 00:41:18,934 --> 00:41:22,804 -don't wanna say -- well, because +don't wanna say-- well, because it's a learning experience, you -975 +928 00:41:22,804 --> 00:41:25,000 should really be happy for feedback, you know? -976 +929 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:25,300 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -977 +930 00:41:25,300 --> 00:41:26,673 Chad: Like, you -978 +931 00:41:26,673 --> 00:41:27,798 don't want somebody to be giving -you a feedback where they're +you a feedback where they're, -979 +932 00:41:27,798 --> 00:41:28,923 like, -980 +933 00:41:28,923 --> 00:41:29,700 "[Angry tone] Argh, argh, argh," -you know? and +you know? And -981 +934 00:41:29,700 --> 00:41:32,134 they're just kinda yelling down. Like, nobody -982 +935 00:41:32,134 --> 00:41:33,768 wants that, you know what I mean? But if it's like, "Hey, I -983 +936 00:41:33,768 --> 00:41:35,402 would -984 +937 00:41:35,403 --> 00:41:37,683 structure it this way." Like, -that's like the key thing about, +that's, like, the key thing -985 +938 00:41:37,683 --> 00:41:39,963 -you +about, you -986 +939 00:41:39,963 --> 00:41:42,198 know, contributions, right? Like, ab- about open source, -987 +940 00:41:42,198 --> 00:41:44,433 right? Like, I -988 -00:41:44,434 --> 00:41:45,799 +941 +00:41:44,434 --> 00:41:47,164 don't wanna say it's judgment -free. Again, you know, it - -989 -00:41:45,799 --> 00:41:47,164 -depends +free. Again, you know, it -990 +942 00:41:47,168 --> 00:41:50,061 -on who's giving you the +depends on who's giving you the feedback. But it's- it's- it's -991 +943 00:41:50,061 --> 00:41:52,954 somewhat -992 +944 00:41:52,958 --> 00:41:54,740 -non-committal in that sense -- -in a sense, you know? Like, you +non-committal in that sense-- in +a sense, you know? Like, you -993 +945 00:41:54,740 --> 00:41:56,522 don't -994 +946 00:41:56,554 --> 00:42:00,333 have to give your contribution. You absolutely don't have to. -995 +947 00:42:00,333 --> 00:42:04,384 -It's not life or death. You know +It's not life or death, you know what I mean? So, a lot of the -996 -00:42:04,384 --> 00:42:06,903 -times, like, you can give your --- you can give a contribution - -997 -00:42:06,903 --> 00:42:09,422 -and +948 +00:42:04,384 --> 00:42:09,422 +times, like, you can give your-- +you can give a contribution and -998 +949 00:42:09,423 --> 00:42:13,893 they give you feedback. And that feedback is just gold. You know -999 +950 00:42:13,893 --> 00:42:16,833 what I mean? It's just, like, there's stuff that they talk -1000 +951 00:42:16,838 --> 00:42:18,876 -about, that they -- that you -didn't know, or even necessarily +about, that they-- that you +didn't know or even necessarily, -1001 +952 00:42:18,876 --> 00:42:20,914 they -1002 +953 00:42:20,918 --> 00:42:24,934 -give you feedback and you push -back on the feedback and say, +give you feedback, and you push +back on the feedback, and say, -1003 +954 00:42:24,934 --> 00:42:26,553 -"Hey, this is my -- this is the -reason why --," like, all of +"Hey, this is my-- this is the +reason why ...," like, all of -1004 +955 00:42:26,553 --> 00:42:28,172 that- -1005 +956 00:42:28,173 --> 00:42:31,998 that interaction is extremely important. That's what you're -1006 +957 00:42:31,998 --> 00:42:37,608 gonna be doing on the job, you know? Like, code review is going -1007 +958 00:42:37,608 --> 00:42:39,453 -to happen [laughs]. It, like, +to happen [laughs]. It, like-- well, I don't wanna say it's -1008 +959 00:42:39,453 --> 00:42:41,298 going to happen. -1009 +960 00:42:41,298 --> 00:42:43,023 -There are some companies -- +There are some companies-- anyways. But, like, the -1010 +961 00:42:43,023 --> 00:42:44,748 likelihood -1011 +962 00:42:44,748 --> 00:42:47,373 of that is so high. Like, that is just an interaction that you -1012 +963 00:42:47,373 --> 00:42:49,998 have -1013 +964 00:42:49,998 --> 00:42:54,619 to go through, you know? And not only that, like, the amount of -1014 -00:42:54,619 --> 00:42:56,554 +965 +00:42:54,619 --> 00:42:58,489 information that you can get from somebody saying, you know, -1015 -00:42:56,554 --> 00:42:58,489 -"I - -1016 +966 00:42:58,489 --> 00:43:00,800 -don't think is -- this is the +"I don't think is-- this is the best way of doing it. I think -1017 +967 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:01,219 -this is -- a- a +this is-- a- a better -1018 +968 00:43:01,219 --> 00:43:08,179 -better way is this," is like -- -especially when it's -- it can +way is this ...," is, like-- +especially when it's-- it can -1019 +969 00:43:08,179 --> 00:43:12,498 potentially be difficult or just hard to- to- to get -1020 +970 00:43:12,498 --> 00:43:15,559 information and to be able to leverage it immediately. Like, -1021 +971 00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:18,978 you know, you can go to a tutorial and you can learn a -1022 -00:43:18,978 --> 00:43:20,718 -bunch of things, but a lot of -the times, if it doesn't apply - -1023 -00:43:20,718 --> 00:43:22,458 -to - -1024 -00:43:22,458 --> 00:43:24,318 -whatever you're doing right now, -you know, it doesn't stick +972 +00:43:18,978 --> 00:43:22,458 +bunch of things but a lot of the +times, if it doesn't apply -1025 -00:43:24,318 --> 00:43:26,178 -unless +973 +00:43:22,458 --> 00:43:26,178 +to whatever you're doing right +now, you know, it doesn't stick, -1026 +974 00:43:26,184 --> 00:43:28,656 -you keep doing it over and over. -But, like, getting that +unless you keep doing it over +and over. But, like, getting -1027 +975 00:43:28,656 --> 00:43:31,128 -feedback, +that feedback, -1028 +976 00:43:31,443 --> 00:43:34,804 you know, on something that you're working on, and then -1029 +977 00:43:34,804 --> 00:43:36,859 leveraging it, and then, you know, like saying, "Okay, I've -1030 +978 00:43:36,859 --> 00:43:38,914 applied -1031 +979 00:43:38,914 --> 00:43:41,853 -it," or, "I don't- I don't +it," or, "I don't-- I don't necessarily agree with your -1032 +980 00:43:41,853 --> 00:43:45,903 feedback." Like, that is such an important thing. Even if you -1033 +981 00:43:45,909 --> 00:43:48,634 don't agree with it, it might be something whereas, you know, -1034 +982 00:43:48,634 --> 00:43:51,123 might be another tool in your toolbox. You know what I mean? -1035 +983 00:43:51,123 --> 00:43:54,250 -So, like, it's- it's kind -- -it's still kind of sticky +So, like, it's- it's kind-- it's +still kind of sticky -1036 +984 00:43:54,250 --> 00:43:57,377 because, again, you -1037 +985 00:43:57,384 --> 00:43:59,958 know, some people are a little bit more harsh with their -1038 +986 00:43:59,958 --> 00:44:03,259 feedback. Or it's not even necessarily harsh, but their -1039 +987 00:44:03,259 --> 00:44:08,539 feedback doesn't kind of mesh with how your culturally kind of -1040 -00:44:08,809 --> 00:44:11,343 +988 +00:44:08,809 --> 00:44:13,877 built to accept feedback, you know? But, like, for the most -1041 -00:44:11,343 --> 00:44:13,877 -part, - -1042 +989 00:44:14,509 --> 00:44:16,009 -like, all of that stuff can -potentially be gold to you, +part, like, all of that stuff +can potentially be gold to you, -1043 +990 00:44:16,009 --> 00:44:17,509 -especially as a- +especially as a-- -1044 +991 00:44:17,778 --> 00:44:21,528 -as a new person, still learning, +as a new person still learning, you know? If, like, them telling -1045 +992 00:44:21,528 --> 00:44:24,168 you, "Hey, I don't think this is necessarily the best way," you -1046 +993 00:44:24,168 --> 00:44:26,426 know? Like, all of that is great stuff, you know? That stuff that -1047 +994 00:44:26,426 --> 00:44:28,684 you -1048 +995 00:44:28,684 --> 00:44:32,943 -can- you can put- you can put +can-- you can put-- you can put away and then, like, potentially -1049 +996 00:44:32,943 --> 00:44:34,608 work on later. Like, even if, say, your contribution doesn't -1050 +997 00:44:34,608 --> 00:44:36,273 get -1051 +998 00:44:36,273 --> 00:44:38,163 accepted for whatever reason, you know? Like, that information -1052 +999 00:44:38,163 --> 00:44:40,053 for -1053 -00:44:40,054 --> 00:44:42,258 +1000 +00:44:40,054 --> 00:44:44,462 you is really, really good when you're learning, you know? And -1054 -00:44:42,258 --> 00:44:44,462 -it - -1055 -00:44:44,463 --> 00:44:46,458 -really just kind of like, I +1001 +00:44:44,463 --> 00:44:48,453 +it really just kind of like, I would say in terms of navigating -1056 -00:44:46,458 --> 00:44:48,453 -code- - -1057 +1002 00:44:48,514 --> 00:44:50,643 -code -- I don't wanna say -- +code- code-- I don't wanna say-- well, getting feedback, it -1058 +1003 00:44:50,643 --> 00:44:52,772 really just -1059 +1004 00:44:52,773 --> 00:44:56,789 kinda understanding the person and how they're giving feedback. -1060 +1005 00:44:57,148 --> 00:44:59,233 And if they're giving, like, feedback that is not -1061 +1006 00:44:59,233 --> 00:45:01,318 particularly -1062 +1007 00:45:01,318 --> 00:45:04,500 great or is demeaning, you know, let's get up and walk away. -1063 +1008 00:45:04,500 --> 00:45:04,700 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -1064 +1009 00:45:04,700 --> 00:45:06,350 Chad: Again, you're not committed, you know? Like, if -1065 -00:45:06,350 --> 00:45:08,000 -they're going - -1066 -00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:08,668 -to be that +1010 +00:45:06,350 --> 00:45:08,668 +they're going to be that -1067 +1011 00:45:08,668 --> 00:45:11,699 -person, you know, that- that's +person, you know, that-- that's not somebody you want to be -1068 +1012 00:45:11,699 --> 00:45:14,116 associated with, you know, in any form of kinda long term -1069 +1013 00:45:14,116 --> 00:45:16,533 anything, you -1070 +1014 00:45:16,534 --> 00:45:19,864 -know? But generally, like, you +know? But generally, like-- you know, people are very friendly. -1071 +1015 00:45:19,864 --> 00:45:22,474 Like, people [chuckles] want you to come back. Like, some people -1072 +1016 00:45:22,474 --> 00:45:25,023 desperately want you to come -back, you know? It's like, you +back, you know? It's, like, you -1073 +1017 00:45:25,023 --> 00:45:26,763 know, "I'm working on this by myself [chuckles]," or, "I'm -1074 +1018 00:45:26,763 --> 00:45:28,503 working on this -1075 +1019 00:45:28,503 --> 00:45:30,138 -with a small group of people, -you know? More people who are +with a small group of people," +you know? "More people who are -1076 +1020 00:45:30,138 --> 00:45:31,773 -working +working with -1077 +1021 00:45:31,773 --> 00:45:34,773 -with me, you know, the better," -you know what I mean? So it's in +me," you know, "the better." You +know what I mean? So it's in -1078 +1022 00:45:34,773 --> 00:45:38,035 -their -- it's -- they're +their-- it's-- they're incentivized to- to- to kinda -1079 +1023 00:45:38,035 --> 00:45:41,297 keep you -1080 +1024 00:45:41,298 --> 00:45:45,289 coming back, you know what I -mean? That's -- and there's also +mean? That's-- and there's also, -1081 +1025 00:45:45,289 --> 00:45:46,998 -like -- and this is a part of -- +like-- and this is a part of-- kind of the community aspect of- -1082 +1026 00:45:46,998 --> 00:45:48,707 of open -1083 +1027 00:45:48,708 --> 00:45:50,733 source or a particular open source project. Like, how to -1084 +1028 00:45:50,733 --> 00:45:52,758 -kind +kind of -1085 +1029 00:45:52,759 --> 00:46:00,168 -of contribute and like having a- +contribute and, like, having a-- having a system kind of around -1086 +1030 00:46:00,168 --> 00:46:02,530 contribution in the sense of, you know, code style, you know, -1087 +1031 00:46:02,530 --> 00:46:04,892 tools -1088 +1032 00:46:04,893 --> 00:46:08,134 that you- you- you are using and stuff like that. Being very -1089 +1033 00:46:08,134 --> 00:46:10,608 structured in that way, it really kind of lets people know -1090 +1034 00:46:10,608 --> 00:46:13,082 -how to- +how to-- -1091 +1035 00:46:13,594 --> 00:46:17,583 how to approach the project. You know what I mean? So that's also -1092 +1036 00:46:17,583 --> 00:46:19,608 a good thing to kind of look -for. It does- it doesn't +for. It does-- it doesn't -1093 +1037 00:46:19,608 --> 00:46:21,633 -necessarily- it +necessarily-- it -1094 +1038 00:46:21,634 --> 00:46:24,813 doesn't necessarily address feedback directly, you know? But -1095 +1039 00:46:25,114 --> 00:46:26,614 it kinda addressed what- what your expectations of the -1096 +1040 00:46:26,614 --> 00:46:28,114 feedback -1097 +1041 00:46:28,114 --> 00:46:30,409 will- will- will be, you know? -But, yeah. Like, I -- yeah +But-- yeah. Like, I-- yeah, -1098 +1042 00:46:30,409 --> 00:46:32,704 -[unintelligible] -- +[unintelligible]-- -1099 +1043 00:46:32,898 --> 00:46:36,000 -Dan: So, as a- as a contributor --- like a potential contri- +Dan: So, as a-- as a +contributor-- like, a potential -1100 +1044 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:36,648 -contributor to a +contri- contributor to a -1101 +1045 00:46:36,648 --> 00:46:39,108 project, what- what are your steps? Like, what do you do -1102 +1046 00:46:39,108 --> 00:46:41,553 before- before you, like, file a -pull request? Like, what do you +pull request? Like, what do -1103 +1047 00:46:41,553 --> 00:46:43,998 --- +you-- -1104 +1048 00:46:44,059 --> 00:46:45,393 like, I assume you maybe read -the README. What- what else -- +the README. What- what else-- -1105 +1049 00:46:45,393 --> 00:46:46,727 what other -1106 +1050 00:46:46,728 --> 00:46:48,756 kinda steps do you take, like, to make sure that you're doing -1107 +1051 00:46:48,756 --> 00:46:50,784 -what the- +what the-- -1108 +1052 00:46:50,784 --> 00:46:52,563 what the maintainers want you to do, you know? -1109 +1053 00:46:53,253 --> 00:46:55,218 -Chad: To be fair, so, I've -mostly been working with Open +Chad: To be fair-- so, I've +mostly been working with -1110 +1054 00:46:55,218 --> 00:46:57,183 -Sauced. And +OpenSauced. And -1111 +1055 00:46:57,184 --> 00:46:59,208 -they've had -- they have a very +they've had-- they have a very good, you know, kind of -1112 +1056 00:46:59,208 --> 00:47:01,232 contributors -1113 +1057 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:06,603 doc, you know? And so they kind of put the systems in place so -1114 +1058 00:47:06,603 --> 00:47:08,403 -that you don't necessarily -- so +that you don't necessarily-- so that you don't mess up, you -1115 +1059 00:47:08,403 --> 00:47:10,203 -know, +know, in a -1116 +1060 00:47:10,264 --> 00:47:13,293 -in a sense, right? So there's -like a lot of kind of guardrails +sense, right? So there's, like, +a lot of kind of guardrails -1117 +1061 00:47:13,293 --> 00:47:15,588 -and hand-holding that the- that +and hand-holding that the-- that the system will do, you know? -1118 +1062 00:47:15,588 --> 00:47:17,883 But, -1119 +1063 00:47:18,244 --> 00:47:20,163 -like -- again, you know, you can --- say, for instance, there +like-- again, you know, you +can-- say, for instance, there -1120 +1064 00:47:20,163 --> 00:47:22,082 isn't -1121 -00:47:22,083 --> 00:47:25,053 +1065 +00:47:22,083 --> 00:47:28,023 really any contri- any, like, docs on contributing. Generally, -1122 -00:47:25,053 --> 00:47:28,023 -that's - -1123 +1066 00:47:28,023 --> 00:47:31,173 -the first place to start, you -know? Docs on contri- just +that's the first place to start, +you know? Docs on contri- just -1124 +1067 00:47:31,173 --> 00:47:35,313 the- the- the kinda docs on the infrastructure, right? Like, on -1125 +1068 00:47:35,494 --> 00:47:39,333 how you contribute. Just start there, you know? Before- before -1126 +1069 00:47:39,338 --> 00:47:40,970 anything else. Because a- a- a good, well-maintained open -1127 +1070 00:47:40,970 --> 00:47:42,602 source -1128 +1071 00:47:42,603 --> 00:47:46,668 project will at least have docs- docs to- to- to tell you how to -1129 +1072 00:47:46,673 --> 00:47:49,699 contribute. If they don't necessarily have docs, you may, -1130 -00:47:49,969 --> 00:47:51,544 +1073 +00:47:49,969 --> 00:47:53,119 you know, may reach out to the maintainer and ask questions. -1131 -00:47:51,544 --> 00:47:53,119 -You - -1132 +1074 00:47:53,119 --> 00:47:54,859 -may file an issue, ask +You may file an issue, ask questions. By the way, if they -1133 +1075 00:47:54,859 --> 00:47:56,599 don't have con- -1134 +1076 00:47:56,869 --> 00:47:59,284 docs on contributing, that's a really good contribution -1135 +1077 00:47:59,284 --> 00:48:01,699 [laughs], you -1136 +1078 00:48:01,704 --> 00:48:04,341 -know? Like -- but it's just -really -- just getting +know? Like-- but it's just +really-- just getting -1137 +1079 00:48:04,341 --> 00:48:06,978 clarification, how- -1138 +1080 00:48:07,159 --> 00:48:09,378 however you can. Like, that doesn't necessarily mean you -1139 +1081 00:48:09,378 --> 00:48:12,978 -don't -- you can't just work on -the- on the pull request +don't-- you can't just work on +the-- on the pull request -1140 +1082 00:48:12,983 --> 00:48:14,916 immediately. But, you know, like, just getting clarification -1141 +1083 00:48:14,916 --> 00:48:16,849 on how -1142 +1084 00:48:16,849 --> 00:48:19,099 they kind of want the- the- the -pull request set up. Like -- and +pull request set up. Like-- and -1143 +1085 00:48:19,099 --> 00:48:21,349 like I -1144 +1086 00:48:21,353 --> 00:48:24,318 -said. Get that clarification +said, get that clarification however you can either they have -1145 +1087 00:48:24,318 --> 00:48:26,680 docs written or you just reach out to people di-directly, you -1146 +1088 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,042 know? You -1147 +1089 00:48:29,043 --> 00:48:32,523 may even kind of go back to- to- to previous pull requests and- -1148 +1090 00:48:32,793 --> 00:48:36,543 and take a look at that. But I would definitely say if they -1149 -00:48:36,543 --> 00:48:38,283 +1091 +00:48:36,543 --> 00:48:40,023 don't have docs, just reach out to the maintainer and- and- and -1150 -00:48:38,283 --> 00:48:40,023 -start - -1151 +1092 00:48:40,023 --> 00:48:44,043 -there. I don't have the most -amount of experience here +start there. I don't have the +most amount of experience here -1152 -00:48:44,043 --> 00:48:45,873 +1093 +00:48:44,043 --> 00:48:47,703 because, you know, like, my open -source -- the project that I - -1153 -00:48:45,873 --> 00:48:47,703 -work +source-- the project that I work -1154 -00:48:47,704 --> 00:48:50,059 +1094 +00:48:47,704 --> 00:48:52,414 with mostly have a lot of these kind of things in place. But, -1155 -00:48:50,059 --> 00:48:52,414 -you - -1156 +1095 00:48:52,414 --> 00:48:54,393 -know, just getting that +you know, just getting that clarification. Like, that's- -1157 +1096 00:48:54,393 --> 00:48:56,074 that's the best way I would submit them. Just get that -1158 -00:48:56,074 --> 00:49:00,813 -clarification first, because it -would kinda- it would kinda suck +1097 +00:48:56,074 --> 00:48:58,443 +clarification first because it +would kinda-- it would kinda -1159 +1098 +00:48:58,443 --> 00:49:00,812 +suck + +1099 00:49:00,813 --> 00:49:02,118 where you do all of this work. -It may even take you like a +It may even take you, like, a -1160 +1100 00:49:02,118 --> 00:49:03,423 couple -1161 +1101 00:49:03,423 --> 00:49:04,773 -of days. You do all of this -work, and then you make a pull +of days. You do all of this work +and then you make a pull -1162 +1102 00:49:04,773 --> 00:49:06,123 request. -1163 +1103 00:49:06,423 --> 00:49:10,324 And then they- they- they deny the pull request for -1164 +1104 00:49:10,324 --> 00:49:13,474 something simple that you could have easily sorted out day one, -1165 +1105 00:49:13,923 --> 00:49:17,628 you know? And, you know, nobody wants their pull request -1166 +1106 00:49:17,628 --> 00:49:20,778 rejected, you know what I mean? -So it's like, it- it's just like +So it's, like, it-- it's just, -1167 +1107 00:49:20,869 --> 00:49:21,964 -at the very least you can just -do those things if you don't -- +like, at the very least you can +just do those things if you -1168 +1108 00:49:21,964 --> 00:49:23,059 -if +don't-- if -1169 +1109 00:49:23,059 --> 00:49:24,708 you're not necessarily a hundred percent clear, you know? That's- -1170 +1110 00:49:24,708 --> 00:49:26,357 -that's -- +that's-- -1171 +1111 00:49:27,693 --> 00:49:29,913 Bekah: Yeah. I love that. And- -and I mean -- so, you- you said +and I mean-- so, you- you said -1172 +1112 00:49:29,913 --> 00:49:32,133 you contribute to -1173 +1113 00:49:32,134 --> 00:49:34,864 -Open Sauced and they've got a +OpenSauced and they've got a great process. So if you wanna -1174 +1114 00:49:34,864 --> 00:49:37,384 -get started, and you wanna know +get started and you wanna know what a good project looks like -1175 -00:49:37,384 --> 00:49:39,034 +1115 +00:49:37,384 --> 00:49:40,684 so you can identify other ones, -then go to Open Sauced and look - -1176 -00:49:39,034 --> 00:49:40,684 -at +then go to OpenSauced and look -1177 -00:49:40,893 --> 00:49:42,566 -what they have there. Because +1116 +00:49:40,893 --> 00:49:44,239 +at what they have there. Because that's a good way to start. And -1178 -00:49:42,566 --> 00:49:44,239 -I - -1179 +1117 00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,599 -know, you know, we've got a +I know, you know, we've got a pretty thorough contributing -1180 +1118 00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:51,438 guidelines doc on our Virtual Coffee site as well. And, you -1181 +1119 00:49:51,438 --> 00:49:53,568 know, sometimes there's discussions — not everybody has -1182 +1120 00:49:53,568 --> 00:49:55,353 discussions enabled — but I really like discussions for -1183 +1121 00:49:55,353 --> 00:49:57,138 being able -1184 +1122 00:49:57,139 --> 00:50:00,378 to have community members ask questions about things and to -1185 +1123 00:50:00,384 --> 00:50:03,978 learn more. And then also, discussions allows us to see, -1186 +1124 00:50:04,188 --> 00:50:07,429 "Okay, yeah. Maybe we're missing something here or we could add -1187 +1125 00:50:07,429 --> 00:50:08,991 -this. Now, here's an issue." And -"Hey, since you brought it up, +this. Now, here's an issue." +And, "Hey, since you brought it -1188 +1126 00:50:08,991 --> 00:50:10,553 -do you +up, do you -1189 +1127 00:50:10,554 --> 00:50:14,693 want to be the one to make the pull request for that -1190 -00:50:14,693 --> 00:50:17,183 -project?" So, it is- it is step -one is -- well, maybe it's not - -1191 -00:50:17,183 --> 00:50:19,673 -step +1128 +00:50:14,693 --> 00:50:19,673 +project?" So, it is-- it is step +one is-- well, maybe it's not -1192 +1129 00:50:19,673 --> 00:50:23,333 -one. But a good step is +step one. But a good step is identifying what good projects -1193 +1130 00:50:23,338 --> 00:50:26,693 look like so you can see them at other places. -1194 +1131 00:50:27,768 --> 00:50:28,548 Chad: Definitely agree. -1195 +1132 00:50:28,548 --> 00:50:28,700 Bekah: Now- -1196 +1133 00:50:28,700 --> 00:50:29,184 Chad: I'm sorry. Go ahead. -1197 +1134 00:50:29,184 --> 00:50:32,764 -Bekah: -I'm -- I kinda wanna +Bekah: -I'm-- I kinda wanna pivot a little bit before we end -1198 +1135 00:50:32,793 --> 00:50:34,383 the podcast episode and talk more about Tech is Hiring. -1199 +1136 00:50:34,383 --> 00:50:35,973 Because, you -1200 +1137 00:50:35,974 --> 00:50:38,583 know, all the things that we've talked about, along with open -1201 +1138 00:50:38,583 --> 00:50:42,184 source, I think contribute to this idea of Tech is Hiring, the -1202 +1139 00:50:42,184 --> 00:50:44,853 idea of community, of connection, of navigating -1203 +1140 00:50:44,853 --> 00:50:47,522 through a problem -1204 -00:50:47,528 --> 00:50:50,180 +1141 +00:50:47,528 --> 00:50:52,832 that you identified. So what kind of started your inspiration -1205 -00:50:50,180 --> 00:50:52,832 -for - -1206 +1142 00:50:52,833 --> 00:50:53,704 -Tech is Hiring? +for Tech is Hiring? -1207 +1143 00:50:54,893 --> 00:51:00,114 Chad: Well, it started really with my own job search. I- I -1208 +1144 00:51:00,114 --> 00:51:01,659 don't even know how I came across this. But I realized -1209 +1145 00:51:01,659 --> 00:51:03,204 that, you -1210 +1146 00:51:03,208 --> 00:51:04,526 know, you could just make a tweet and say, "Hey, I'm looking -1211 +1147 00:51:04,526 --> 00:51:05,844 for a -1212 -00:51:05,844 --> 00:51:07,524 +1148 +00:51:05,844 --> 00:51:09,204 role." And people retweet it. -Like, people are very -- at the - -1213 -00:51:07,524 --> 00:51:09,204 -very +Like, people are very-- at the -1214 +1149 00:51:09,208 --> 00:51:11,085 -least in- in- in the tech -industry, or on tech Twitter, +very least, in- in- in the tech +industry or on tech Twitter, -1215 +1150 00:51:11,085 --> 00:51:12,962 people -1216 +1151 00:51:13,074 --> 00:51:16,296 are very open about, you know, helping people find new roles. -1217 +1152 00:51:16,296 --> 00:51:19,518 And so, -1218 +1153 00:51:19,639 --> 00:51:21,244 you know, I was doing that a few times, like, in my own job -1219 +1154 00:51:21,244 --> 00:51:22,849 search. -1220 +1155 00:51:23,148 --> 00:51:26,268 -And then I think one day I was -retweeting and I was just +And then, I think one day I was +retweeting, and I was just -1221 +1156 00:51:26,268 --> 00:51:28,383 realized, you know, if you don't -have a good network and -- yeah, +have a good network, and-- yeah, -1222 +1157 00:51:28,383 --> 00:51:30,498 if -1223 +1158 00:51:30,498 --> 00:51:33,798 you don't have a good network, you know, l-l-likelihood of you- -1224 +1159 00:51:33,878 --> 00:51:36,605 -you -- the likelihood of your -tweet going viral in a sense it +you-- the likelihood of your +tweet going viral in a sense -1225 +1160 00:51:36,605 --> 00:51:39,332 --- +it-- -1226 +1161 00:51:39,393 --> 00:51:43,833 that would help you is- is- is pretty low. And so, you know, my -1227 +1162 00:51:43,833 --> 00:51:46,384 first thought was like, "Hey, do -we have like a hashtag or +we have, like, a hashtag or -1228 +1163 00:51:46,384 --> 00:51:52,143 something that we can, you know, that we can ... like, post our -1229 +1164 00:51:52,143 --> 00:51:53,553 tweet to? So at the very least, you know, it's in one -1230 +1165 00:51:53,553 --> 00:51:54,963 centralized -1231 +1166 00:51:54,963 --> 00:51:56,861 place?" And people were like, "No." And I was just like, -1232 +1167 00:51:56,861 --> 00:51:58,759 "Okay." And -1233 -00:51:58,759 --> 00:51:59,366 +1168 +00:51:58,759 --> 00:51:59,973 somebody had reached out and they were literally like, "Oh, -1234 -00:51:59,366 --> 00:51:59,973 -so - -1235 +1169 00:51:59,973 --> 00:52:01,187 -you're +so you're -1236 -00:52:01,188 --> 00:52:02,403 +1170 +00:52:01,188 --> 00:52:03,618 gonna make a hashtag, right?" -And I was like, "I guess I am - -1237 -00:52:02,403 --> 00:52:03,618 -now." +And I was like, "I guess I am -1238 +1171 00:52:04,579 --> 00:52:05,500 -[laughs]. So I ended up like- +now." [laughs]. So I ended up +like- -1239 +1172 00:52:05,500 --> 00:52:05,700 Bekah: Nice. -1240 +1173 00:52:05,700 --> 00:52:07,599 -Chad: -it- it -- yeah [laughs]. -I ended up taking like a couple +Chad: -it- it-- yeah [laughs]. I +ended up taking, like, a -1241 +1174 00:52:07,599 --> 00:52:09,498 -of +couple of -1242 +1175 00:52:09,498 --> 00:52:11,328 days, just kind of trying to come up with a name. And then, -1243 +1176 00:52:11,328 --> 00:52:13,158 you -1244 +1177 00:52:13,164 --> 00:52:16,458 know, I just made a quick post and I was just like, "Hey, this -1245 +1178 00:52:16,458 --> 00:52:20,239 -hashtag, you know, post to it if -you- if you wanted to -- if you +hashtag," you know, "post to it +if you-- if you wanted to-- if -1246 -00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:23,006 -want to- to- to share your +1179 +00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:25,773 +you want to- to- to share your tweet." And, like, I pretty much -1247 -00:52:23,006 --> 00:52:25,773 -did - -1248 +1180 00:52:25,773 --> 00:52:28,173 -that. And initially, when I- -when I made the first tweet, I +did that. And initially, when +I-- when I made the first tweet, -1249 +1181 00:52:28,173 --> 00:52:30,573 -didn't -- +I didn't-- -1250 +1182 00:52:30,574 --> 00:52:32,883 I obviously didn't expect -anybody to like be jumping, you +anybody to, like, be jumping, -1251 +1183 00:52:32,883 --> 00:52:35,192 -know, out +you know, out -1252 -00:52:35,193 --> 00:52:36,768 -to the woodwork to kinda tweet +1184 +00:52:35,193 --> 00:52:38,343 +to the woodwork, to kinda tweet to it. So I just went out to my -1253 -00:52:36,768 --> 00:52:38,343 -way - -1254 -00:52:38,349 --> 00:52:40,498 -to go find tweets, you know? So -for people to share, to just - -1255 -00:52:40,498 --> 00:52:42,647 -kinda +1185 +00:52:38,349 --> 00:52:42,647 +way to go find tweets, you know? +So for people to share, to just -1256 +1186 00:52:42,653 --> 00:52:44,825 -encourage and to build that kind -of backlog, right? Of +kinda encourage, and to build +that kind of backlog, right, of -1257 +1187 00:52:44,825 --> 00:52:46,997 -places -- +places-- -1258 +1188 00:52:47,028 --> 00:52:51,199 of- of- of resources. And, you know, it just kind of grew from -1259 +1189 00:52:51,199 --> 00:52:56,719 there. So, like, I started adding tweets every day, you -1260 +1190 00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:58,413 -know -- every weekday I should +know-- every weekday I should say. I started adding tweets -1261 +1191 00:52:58,413 --> 00:53:00,107 every -1262 +1192 00:53:00,108 --> 00:53:00,798 day, you know? And just took- took a couple of minutes all to -1263 -00:53:00,798 --> 00:53:01,488 -my day. - -1264 -00:53:01,488 --> 00:53:02,868 -In +1193 +00:53:00,798 --> 00:53:02,868 +my day. In -1265 +1194 00:53:02,869 --> 00:53:05,088 fact, I'm probably gonna do that right after I get off of this. -1266 +1195 00:53:05,389 --> 00:53:10,338 But took a couple of minutes just went through all, you -1267 +1196 00:53:10,338 --> 00:53:14,659 know, went and looked for- for people looking for jobs or had -1268 +1197 00:53:14,659 --> 00:53:17,358 jobs to share. And I would just ask them if I could add it to -1269 +1198 00:53:17,358 --> 00:53:19,548 Tech is Hiring. And I've just been doing that. And, you know, -1270 +1199 00:53:19,548 --> 00:53:21,738 at the -1271 -00:53:21,739 --> 00:53:24,108 +1200 +00:53:21,739 --> 00:53:26,477 end of last year, I started doing spaces around- around Tech -1272 -00:53:24,108 --> 00:53:26,477 -is - -1273 +1201 00:53:26,483 --> 00:53:29,958 -Hiring when- when spaces, you +is Hiring when- when spaces, you know, became a feature that was -1274 +1202 00:53:29,958 --> 00:53:35,298 open to the public. I started -doing that. And there's a -- +doing that. And there's a-- -1275 +1203 00:53:35,304 --> 00:53:38,728 there's definitely a lot of -people who just kinda like -- +people who just kinda like-- -1276 +1204 00:53:39,028 --> 00:53:42,239 -there's a lot of -- kind of -- I +there's a lot of-- kind of-- I don't wanna say there's a lot of -1277 +1205 00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:46,079 information that people tend to -lack, you know? Like, even -- +lack, you know? Like, even-- -1278 +1206 00:53:46,168 --> 00:53:49,409 especially there's a lot of job changes, right? So they may have -1279 +1207 00:53:49,414 --> 00:53:54,418 existed in an industry for periods of time. Maybe years, -1280 +1208 00:53:54,418 --> 00:53:57,719 decades, right? And they're transitioning into the tech -1281 +1209 00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:00,028 industry. And, like, a simple thing as how to structure your -1282 +1210 00:54:00,028 --> 00:54:02,337 resume -1283 +1211 00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:04,504 is- is something that they may -not necessarily know. You know +not necessarily know, you know -1284 +1212 00:54:04,504 --> 00:54:06,289 what I -1285 +1213 00:54:06,295 --> 00:54:09,918 mean? And it's actually fairly difficult. It's not as difficult -1286 +1214 00:54:09,918 --> 00:54:11,598 now because there's significantly more resources, -1287 +1215 00:54:11,598 --> 00:54:13,278 but it's fairly -1288 +1216 00:54:13,284 --> 00:54:15,276 -different -- difficult to find +different-- difficult to find out how to structure your resume -1289 +1217 00:54:15,276 --> 00:54:17,268 in a -1290 -00:54:17,268 --> 00:54:19,503 +1218 +00:54:17,268 --> 00:54:21,738 good way. And so, you know, I -was just like, you know, that's - -1291 -00:54:19,503 --> 00:54:21,738 -also +was just, like, you know, that's -1292 +1219 00:54:21,739 --> 00:54:24,251 -resources that people could +also resources that people could have, you know? Like, people -1293 +1220 00:54:24,251 --> 00:54:26,763 have, you know, -1294 +1221 00:54:26,764 --> 00:54:30,213 -hiring or just kind of job -search or just those kind of +hiring, or just kind of job +search, or just those kind of -1295 +1222 00:54:30,213 --> 00:54:35,583 conversations on- on spaces. And I'll share that, you know, when- -1296 -00:54:35,583 --> 00:54:36,843 +1223 +00:54:35,583 --> 00:54:38,103 whenever I can. It's like, "Hey, do you mind if I add this to -1297 -00:54:36,843 --> 00:54:38,103 -Tech - -1298 -00:54:38,108 --> 00:54:40,176 -is Hiring?" You know? And I +1224 +00:54:38,108 --> 00:54:42,244 +Tech is Hiring?" You know? And I guess it just kinda evolved from -1299 -00:54:40,176 --> 00:54:42,244 -there. - -1300 +1225 00:54:42,244 --> 00:54:44,163 -I eventually started a +there. I eventually started a newsletter to kinda do the -1301 +1226 00:54:44,163 --> 00:54:46,082 -same thing, +same thing -1302 +1227 00:54:46,414 --> 00:54:50,103 -whereas like I have -- I'll +whereas, like, I have-- I'll effectively curate the tweets -1303 +1228 00:54:50,103 --> 00:54:53,440 that I see. And then I'll just, -you know, take five of the -- +you know, take five of the-- -1304 +1229 00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,777 five people who are -1305 -00:54:56,778 --> 00:54:59,103 -looking for jobs and then 10 +1230 +00:54:56,778 --> 00:55:01,428 +looking for jobs, and then 10 jobs during that week. And then -1306 -00:54:59,103 --> 00:55:01,428 -any - -1307 +1231 00:55:01,429 --> 00:55:03,409 -additional, like, an- an +any additional, like, an- an additional information, like, -1308 +1232 00:55:03,409 --> 00:55:05,389 say for -1309 +1233 00:55:05,389 --> 00:55:06,768 -instance, there was like a +instance, there was, like, a really good thread about, you -1310 +1234 00:55:06,768 --> 00:55:08,147 know, -1311 +1235 00:55:08,208 --> 00:55:13,128 -again, let's can -- keep it in +again, let's can-- keep it in context, talking about resumes, -1312 +1236 00:55:13,128 --> 00:55:14,838 you know? Like, I'll- I'll- I'll share that, anything that's a -1313 +1237 00:55:14,838 --> 00:55:16,548 part of -1314 +1238 00:55:16,548 --> 00:55:18,633 the hashtag. So I won't, like, go searching for stuff. But -1315 +1239 00:55:18,633 --> 00:55:20,718 anything -1316 +1240 00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:22,129 that's a part of the hashtag, -you know, that got retweeted by +you know, that got retweeted -1317 +1241 00:55:22,129 --> 00:55:23,539 --- with +by-- with -1318 +1242 00:55:23,543 --> 00:55:27,378 the hashtag, I'll- I'll add that to the newsletter, and so on and -1319 -00:55:27,378 --> 00:55:29,748 +1243 +00:55:27,378 --> 00:55:32,118 so forth. And, you know, it's -really just kind of been about - -1320 -00:55:29,748 --> 00:55:32,118 --- +really just kind of been about-- -1321 +1244 00:55:33,063 --> 00:55:37,773 -just trying to be, like, make it --- make that -- make the whole +just trying to be, like, make +it-- make that-- make the whole -1322 +1245 00:55:37,773 --> 00:55:41,704 thing about either job searching -or transitioning -- just job +or transitioning-- just job -1323 +1246 00:55:41,704 --> 00:55:47,253 related stuff, make it easier, -you know? Especially -- so, like +you know? Especially-- so, like, -1324 +1247 00:55:47,259 --> 00:55:49,919 the- the- the thing about -Twitter is like when you go on +Twitter is, like, when you go on -1325 +1248 00:55:49,919 --> 00:55:52,579 LinkedIn -1326 +1249 00:55:52,608 --> 00:55:57,289 or when you apply for a job in -any- in any- in any, I guess, +any-- in any-- in any, I guess, -1327 +1250 00:55:57,318 --> 00:56:02,358 standard way, right? You up- you upload your- your- your resume -1328 +1251 00:56:02,364 --> 00:56:04,041 and so on and so forth. It's very likely that you won't -1329 +1252 00:56:04,041 --> 00:56:05,718 necessarily -1330 +1253 00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,358 get seen by a human for whatever reason. I'm not even gonna get -1331 +1254 00:56:08,364 --> 00:56:10,969 into that. But for whatever reason, you may not necessarily -1332 -00:56:10,974 --> 00:56:12,951 +1255 +00:56:10,974 --> 00:56:14,928 get seen by a human, you know? -Or -- I don't wanna say that. - -1333 -00:56:12,951 --> 00:56:14,928 -For +Or-- I don't wanna say that. For -1334 -00:56:14,929 --> 00:56:16,324 +1256 +00:56:14,929 --> 00:56:17,719 whatever reason, you won't interact with a human, I should -1335 -00:56:16,324 --> 00:56:17,719 -say, - -1336 +1257 00:56:18,123 --> 00:56:21,333 -you know? You may get some +say, you know? You may get some automated email saying you were -1337 +1258 00:56:21,333 --> 00:56:26,884 rejected or you may not even get a reply at all, right? But, you -1338 -00:56:26,884 --> 00:56:30,994 -know, for Tech is Hiring because -most of the times I'm retweeting +1259 +00:56:26,884 --> 00:56:28,939 +know, for Tech is Hiring, +because most of the times I'm + +1260 +00:56:28,939 --> 00:56:30,994 +retweeting -1339 -00:56:30,994 --> 00:56:32,839 +1261 +00:56:30,994 --> 00:56:34,684 tweets that somebody else made, you know, a lot of the times -1340 -00:56:32,839 --> 00:56:34,684 -that - -1341 +1262 00:56:34,684 --> 00:56:37,925 -person, and a lot of the times -it's a person — +that person, and a lot of the +times it's a person — -1342 +1263 00:56:38,014 --> 00:56:42,244 legitimate person — that person is now kind of your- your -1343 +1264 00:56:42,244 --> 00:56:44,403 -interactor -- no. The- the -- -your point of contact for that +interactor-- no. The- the-- your +point of contact for that -1344 +1265 00:56:44,403 --> 00:56:46,562 -company. So say, +company. So, say -1345 +1266 00:56:46,563 --> 00:56:49,563 for instance, let's- let's go with AWS. A lot of people -1346 +1267 00:56:49,563 --> 00:56:52,204 -actually, when they -- when -they're- when they're sharing +actually, when they-- when +they're-- when they're sharing -1347 +1268 00:56:52,204 --> 00:56:53,809 job, they'll say, "Hey," you -know, like, in it's -- in +know, like, in it's-- in -1348 +1269 00:56:53,809 --> 00:56:55,414 particular cases, -1349 +1270 00:56:55,414 --> 00:56:57,783 -they'll say "I'll- I'll -definitely ..." not -- what's -- +they'll say, "I'll- I'll +definitely ..." not-- what's-- -1350 +1271 00:56:57,783 --> 00:57:00,152 -not sponsors. The +not sponsors. The-- -1351 +1272 00:57:00,273 --> 00:57:04,369 --- what's the phrase? When they -recommend -- they- they'll +what's the phrase? When they +recommend-- they-- they'll -1352 +1273 00:57:04,369 --> 00:57:10,219 recommend you, you know? And so you have that, excuse me, you -1353 +1274 00:57:10,219 --> 00:57:15,648 have that point of contact with the organization, you know, -1354 +1275 00:57:15,648 --> 00:57:20,418 -and like, for- for- for getting +and, like, for- for- for getting hired. Like, having somebody -1355 +1276 00:57:20,449 --> 00:57:24,164 recommend you, you know? -Especially like a big person +Especially, like, a big person -1356 +1277 00:57:24,193 --> 00:57:28,603 recommending you is a huge deal, -you know? And for, like -- +you know? And for, like-- -1357 +1278 00:57:28,603 --> 00:57:30,448 especially for- for younger engineers, they don't -1358 +1279 00:57:30,448 --> 00:57:32,293 necessarily -1359 +1280 00:57:32,293 --> 00:57:35,173 have that network to have somebody recommend them for a -1360 +1281 00:57:35,173 --> 00:57:37,423 job. You know what I mean? And so, you know, when somebody -1361 +1282 00:57:37,423 --> 00:57:39,673 posts -1362 +1283 00:57:39,673 --> 00:57:43,873 that, you know, their job is looking for a- a position and -1363 +1284 00:57:44,304 --> 00:57:47,384 somebody sees that, they can go and just reach out to them. They -1364 +1285 00:57:47,384 --> 00:57:50,206 can send them a DM or they can send them a reply. And, like, -1365 +1286 00:57:50,206 --> 00:57:53,028 that- -1366 +1287 00:57:53,358 --> 00:57:55,233 that interaction is -significantly better. That -- +significantly better. That-- -1367 +1288 00:57:55,233 --> 00:57:57,108 even if you're qual- -1368 +1289 00:57:57,168 --> 00:57:59,418 I mean, to be fair, if you're qualified for the job, you're -1369 +1290 00:57:59,418 --> 00:58:02,869 qualified for the job. But just having that kind of point of -1370 +1291 00:58:02,869 --> 00:58:04,339 contact, you know? Maybe it's not the job for you, but you -1371 +1292 00:58:04,339 --> 00:58:05,809 don't -1372 +1293 00:58:05,809 --> 00:58:07,489 know that, you know? You're not gonna know that until you -1373 +1294 00:58:07,489 --> 00:58:10,728 interview. So you can sit down and talk with them, you know? -1374 +1295 00:58:10,733 --> 00:58:15,259 Like, just having that point of contact is so important, you -1375 +1296 00:58:15,259 --> 00:58:19,338 know? So, like, that's kind of the real value of Tech is Hiring -1376 +1297 00:58:19,338 --> 00:58:22,909 currently is. It's not even necessarily the resources that -1377 -00:58:22,914 --> 00:58:25,386 +1298 +00:58:22,914 --> 00:58:27,858 get shared. It's the resources and the people who actually -1378 -00:58:25,386 --> 00:58:27,858 -share - -1379 -00:58:27,864 --> 00:58:29,496 -them and your ability to +1299 +00:58:27,864 --> 00:58:31,128 +share them and your ability to interact with them, you know? -1380 -00:58:29,496 --> 00:58:31,128 -That's - -1381 +1300 00:58:31,128 --> 00:58:34,398 -really the- the- the main thing -about Tech is Hiring. +That's really the- the- the main +thing about Tech is Hiring. -1382 +1301 00:58:35,074 --> 00:58:37,114 Bekah: That's so great. Thanks for sharing that with us, Chad. -1383 +1302 00:58:37,324 --> 00:58:40,414 And thanks so much for being here with us today. So if you're -1384 +1303 00:58:40,414 --> 00:58:42,379 listening, please go ahead and follow Chad on Twitter, and -1385 +1304 00:58:42,379 --> 00:58:44,344 follow -1386 +1305 00:58:44,344 --> 00:58:47,884 Tech is Hiring, and make sure to subscribe to his newsletter. -1387 +1306 00:58:47,884 --> 00:58:51,873 We'll have links to all of those things in our show note. And we -1388 +1307 00:58:52,293 --> 00:58:53,134 will see you next time. -1389 +1308 00:58:53,864 --> 00:58:54,753 Dan: Thank you, Chad. -1390 +1309 00:58:55,233 --> 00:58:56,000 Chad: You're welcome. -1391 +1310 00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:02,487 Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Virtual -1392 +1311 00:59:02,487 --> 00:59:06,233 Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by Dan Ott and Bekah -1393 -00:59:06,233 --> 00:59:07,622 +1312 +00:59:06,233 --> 00:59:09,011 Hawrot Weigel. If you have questions or comments, you can -1394 -00:59:07,622 --> 00:59:09,011 -hit - -1395 +1313 00:59:09,012 --> 00:59:12,023 -us up on Twitter at -VirtualCoffeeIO, or email us at +hit us up on Twitter at +VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at -1396 +1314 00:59:12,023 --> 00:59:13,757 podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You can find the show notes, sign up -1397 +1315 00:59:13,757 --> 00:59:15,491 for -1398 +1316 00:59:15,492 --> 00:59:17,532 the newsletter, check out any of our other resources on our -1399 +1317 00:59:17,532 --> 00:59:20,922 website, virtualcoffee.io. If you're interested in sponsoring -1400 +1318 00:59:20,922 --> 00:59:23,322 Virtual Coffee, you can find out more information on our website -1401 +1319 00:59:23,592 --> 00:59:28,032 at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. Please subscribe to our podcast -1402 -00:59:28,063 --> 00:59:29,668 +1320 +00:59:28,063 --> 00:59:31,273 and be sure to leave us a review. Thanks for listening, -1403 -00:59:29,668 --> 00:59:31,273 -and we'll - -1404 +1321 00:59:31,273 --> 00:59:32,112 -see you next week! \ No newline at end of file +and we'll see you next week! \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/episodes/6_999.srt b/episodes/6_999.srt index 05c802f..e042164 100644 --- a/episodes/6_999.srt +++ b/episodes/6_999.srt @@ -5,7 +5,7 @@ welcome to Season 6 of the 2 00:00:11,925 --> 00:00:13,700 -Virtual Coffee podcast. We are +Virtual Coffee Podcast. We are live and in-person 3 @@ -38,7 +38,7 @@ special- 9 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:27,300 -Dan: I mean -- +Dan: I mean-- 10 00:00:27,300 --> 00:00:28,559 @@ -55,7 +55,7 @@ Bekah: Yeah. 13 00:00:30,725 --> 00:00:31,230 -Dan: -after, then it will -- +Dan: -after, then it will-- 14 00:00:31,230 --> 00:00:32,300 @@ -64,16 +64,16 @@ Bekah: So this is definitely 15 00:00:32,300 --> 00:00:36,990 the 50th episode of the Virtual -Coffee podcast [laughs]. And -- +Coffee Podcast [laughs]. And-- 16 00:00:39,659 --> 00:00:40,320 -Dan: Here with me today -- +Dan: Here with me today-- 17 00:00:41,054 --> 00:00:43,000 Bekah: [Laughs] Here with me -today is my cohost, Dan. +today is my co-host, Dan. 18 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,659 @@ -95,7 +95,7 @@ Bekah: It's going good. 22 00:00:47,729 --> 00:00:49,000 Done with my talk, and I'm very -happy to -- +happy to-- 23 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:50,130 @@ -103,8 +103,8 @@ Dan: She did great. 24 00:00:50,310 --> 00:00:51,494 -Bekah: I -- it [crosstalk] -wasn't my best [crosstalk] +Bekah: I-- it [crosstalk] wasn't +my best [crosstalk] 25 00:00:51,494 --> 00:00:52,678 @@ -137,7 +137,7 @@ Bekah: It was okay. 32 00:00:57,570 --> 00:00:57,800 -Dan: You can't -- +Dan: You can't-- 33 00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:58,700 @@ -145,13 +145,13 @@ Bekah: So people got up and left 34 00:00:58,700 --> 00:01:01,590 -during my talk, and then I -- it +during my talk, and then I-- it was very thrown off. 35 00:01:01,594 --> 00:01:02,000 Dan: I feel like they just said -that -- +that-- 36 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:03,600 @@ -204,7 +204,7 @@ Dan: But Tom Cudd is- 47 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,000 -Bekah: Tom is -- +Bekah: Tom is-- 48 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:23,825 @@ -297,7 +297,7 @@ Dan: In a little bit. 69 00:01:56,459 --> 00:01:57,300 -Bekah: Yeah. So -- +Bekah: Yeah. So-- 70 00:01:57,300 --> 00:01:58,000 @@ -366,8 +366,8 @@ what time do you go to sleep? 85 00:02:21,930 --> 00:02:25,000 -Dan: Hmm. I try to go to sleep -like +Dan: Hmm. I try to go to sleep, +like, 86 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,030 @@ -421,7 +421,7 @@ Bekah: Yeah. 97 00:02:51,314 --> 00:02:51,700 -Dan: And Bekah -- +Dan: And Bekah-- 98 00:02:51,700 --> 00:02:53,775 @@ -448,8 +448,8 @@ He was challenging, like, 103 00:02:57,900 --> 00:02:59,500 -your form, which is, I think -even more- +your form, which is I think even +more- 104 00:02:59,500 --> 00:02:59,700 @@ -457,18 +457,18 @@ Bekah: Yeah! 105 00:02:59,700 --> 00:03:00,854 -Dan: -ridiculous. He was like +Dan: -ridiculous. He was, like, absurd. 106 00:03:00,854 --> 00:03:02,500 -Bekah: He was like, "Is this -- -how do you -- show me how +Bekah: He was like, "Is this-- +how do you-- show me how 107 00:03:02,500 --> 00:03:05,294 -you..." How dare you? First of -all [chuckles] -- +you ..." How dare you? First of +all [chuckles]-- 108 00:03:05,294 --> 00:03:06,000 @@ -499,7 +499,7 @@ Don't mansplain my deadlift. 114 00:03:12,645 --> 00:03:15,854 Dan: Especially not at 11.45 at -night at a- at a- at a bar. +night at a-- at a-- at a bar. 115 00:03:16,004 --> 00:03:18,944 @@ -508,7 +508,7 @@ peacefully though. 116 00:03:18,944 --> 00:03:20,985 -I am happy to report. I did -- +I am happy to report. I did-- 117 00:03:20,985 --> 00:03:23,000 @@ -536,8 +536,8 @@ can't promise. Okay. 122 00:03:33,224 --> 00:03:36,000 -Alright, alright. Let me -- -let's go with the +Alright, alright. Let me-- let's +go with the 123 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,715 @@ -611,7 +611,7 @@ these are all ... appropriate. 138 00:04:04,110 --> 00:04:09,000 Well, that one says Netflix and -chill, so -- +chill, so-- 139 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:09,930 @@ -619,11 +619,11 @@ Dan: Well, hey. 140 00:04:10,169 --> 00:04:10,700 -Bekah: That's -- +Bekah: That's-- 141 00:04:10,700 --> 00:04:11,000 -Dan: Just -- +Dan: Just-- 142 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:12,000 @@ -641,7 +641,7 @@ lines that always work [laughs]. 145 00:04:18,165 --> 00:04:19,800 Dan: Well, that's not a -question. So -- +question. So-- 146 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:21,000 @@ -650,8 +650,8 @@ don't- 147 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,000 -Dan: They failed- they failed -the -- +Dan: They failed-- they failed +the-- 148 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:24,404 @@ -739,11 +739,11 @@ and, you know, lawyers to 165 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,800 help you, things like that. -There's a lot of like ... laws +There's a lot of, like ... laws, 166 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,000 -and rules and things that can +and rules, and things that can come into play, I think, 167 @@ -846,11 +846,11 @@ interviews, you're going to have 188 00:06:02,310 --> 00:06:04,700 to communicate aloud about code. -And that can be — I know +And that can be—I know 189 00:06:04,700 --> 00:06:06,990 -for me — that was a really hard +for me—that was a really hard learning curve. 190 @@ -874,7 +874,7 @@ to say that. 194 00:06:14,519 --> 00:06:15,000 -But like, I think that -- +But, like, I think that-- 195 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:16,769 @@ -889,7 +889,7 @@ with that. 197 00:06:18,899 --> 00:06:20,474 I- I mean, I- I'm always a -proponent of like building +proponent of, like, building 198 00:06:20,474 --> 00:06:22,049 @@ -898,7 +898,7 @@ things, 199 00:06:22,110 --> 00:06:24,500 you know, as a way to learn. And -I think, yeah, I think +I think-- yeah, I think 200 00:06:24,500 --> 00:06:26,500 @@ -907,12 +907,12 @@ people is also very 201 00:06:26,500 --> 00:06:31,370 -important ... skill to like -- -start to -- it- +important ... skill to, like-- +start to-- it- 202 00:06:31,375 --> 00:06:33,269 -it doesn't always like -- it +it doesn't always, like-- it isn't always taught, right? 203 @@ -942,22 +942,22 @@ Bekah: Yeah. 208 00:06:43,170 --> 00:06:44,639 Dan: -project or, you know, -bootcamp, whatever -- +bootcamp, whatever-- 209 00:06:44,639 --> 00:06:48,000 a classroom situation. But yeah, -like, learning -- +like, learning-- that-- 210 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,000 -that- that's like one of the -- +that's, like, one of the-- especially if you're hiring a 211 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,000 junior role like that, where -you're gonna be interviewing -- +you're gonna be interviewing-- 212 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,800 @@ -971,18 +971,18 @@ something they 214 00:06:58,709 --> 00:07:01,949 -can set you as -- like, far -apart from- from other +can set you as-- like, far apart +from- from other 215 00:07:01,949 --> 00:07:04,290 -people from -- in the same boat, +people from-- in the same boat, right? 216 00:07:04,529 --> 00:07:09,404 -You know, so, they all -- like -the- the- the, like, breadth +You know, so, they all-- like, +the- the- the-- like, breadth 217 00:07:09,464 --> 00:07:11,894 @@ -991,8 +991,8 @@ level will be, like, pretty 218 00:07:11,894 --> 00:07:15,435 -tight. And so, ways to- ways to, -like, set yourself apart. +tight. And so, ways to-- ways +to, like, set yourself apart. 219 00:07:15,644 --> 00:07:17,925 @@ -1001,7 +1001,7 @@ like a huge one, right? 220 00:07:17,925 --> 00:07:20,204 -I mean, if I- if I have -- if +I mean, if I-- if I have-- if I'm interviewing with somebody, 221 @@ -1011,7 +1011,7 @@ speak well and have 222 00:07:22,495 --> 00:07:26,949 -some, like -- I mean, speak well +some, like-- I mean, speak well about- about code. Like 223 @@ -1026,7 +1026,7 @@ that- that sort 225 00:07:29,740 --> 00:07:31,839 of thing are- are used to, like, -talking out loud or explaining +talking out loud, or explaining 226 00:07:31,839 --> 00:07:36,129 @@ -1048,7 +1048,7 @@ Dan: Even if it's a thing that's 230 00:07:38,500 --> 00:07:42,000 for bootcamp. Maybe lots of -times -- well, I've never been +times-- well, I've never been 231 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:42,300 @@ -1057,12 +1057,12 @@ to do 232 00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:44,000 bootcamp, so I- I don't know. -But like, you would turn in +But, like, you would turn in 233 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,000 the assignment. I don't know. Do -you do like presentations, +you do, like, presentations 234 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:47,000 @@ -1071,11 +1071,11 @@ after you finish? 235 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,000 Bekah: We did. So for each of -our -- we +our-- we 236 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,259 -had like a series of projects +had, like, a series of projects that we had to do. 237 @@ -1151,7 +1151,7 @@ do?" Do a code review with 252 00:08:27,915 --> 00:08:31,665 somebody, just so you get an -understanding of like whether +understanding of, like, whether 253 00:08:31,670 --> 00:08:35,000 @@ -1191,8 +1191,8 @@ Dan: Yeah. 261 00:08:48,419 --> 00:08:51,389 -Bekah: Is it- is it written well -or efficiently? +Bekah: Is it-- is it written +well or efficiently? 262 00:08:51,629 --> 00:08:53,309 @@ -1219,8 +1219,8 @@ talk about a lot in Virtual 267 00:09:00,674 --> 00:09:04,544 -Coffee, at -- in this podcast, -is it's another great way +Coffee, at-- in this podcast, is +it's another great way 268 00:09:04,544 --> 00:09:08,085 @@ -1234,12 +1234,12 @@ other code bases. 270 00:09:12,945 --> 00:09:16,875 -And like, that's another skill +And, like, that's another skill that is- is ... sometimes 271 00:09:16,875 --> 00:09:19,460 -maybe a harder one to learn -- +maybe a harder one to learn-- not harder one to learn, but 272 @@ -1266,7 +1266,7 @@ Bekah: Yeah. 277 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:27,300 -Dan: -there's like -- [chuckles] +Dan: -there's, like-- [chuckles] there's- 278 @@ -1281,13 +1281,13 @@ practice. 280 00:09:32,690 --> 00:09:34,549 -It will, you know, like if you -practice it, it will -- +It will-- you know, like, if you +practice it, it will-- 281 00:09:34,549 --> 00:09:37,000 -you'll get better at it. And so, -there's a million -- billion +you'll get better at it. And so +there's a million-- billion 282 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,000 @@ -1305,7 +1305,7 @@ Bekah: Yeah. 285 00:09:44,779 --> 00:09:46,879 -Dan: I -- we have a lot of +Dan: I-- we have a lot of episodes where we've talked 286 @@ -1314,3943 +1314,3942 @@ about, like, all- all the reasons why it's a good idea to 287 -00:09:49,575 --> 00:09:56,205 -do it. And like, also like, the -... things to do to- to get over +00:09:49,575 --> 00:09:52,890 +do it. And, like-- also, like, +the ... things to do to- to get 288 +00:09:52,890 --> 00:09:56,205 +over + +289 00:09:56,355 --> 00:09:58,995 -some anxiety you might -- may +some anxiety you might-- may have about- about doing that -289 +290 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:03,000 -as a- as a junior developer. +as a-- as a junior developer. Like, just jump in or, -290 +291 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,000 [chuckles] you know, do some -peer -- pull requests on just +peer-- pull requests on just -291 +292 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,784 documentation or whatever, just to get your feet wet. -292 +293 00:10:07,784 --> 00:10:10,004 Like, that kind of thing. -There's like -- a +There's, like, a -293 +294 00:10:10,004 --> 00:10:10,514 -lot of stuff like that. So -- +lot of stuff like that. So-- -294 +295 00:10:10,519 --> 00:10:11,600 Bekah: Yeah. And I think, also, it's a -295 +296 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,000 pretty easy ask to say like, "Hey, I really wanna get -296 +297 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,759 started in open source. I'm a little nervous about this. -297 +298 00:10:17,820 --> 00:10:20,700 Is there anybody out there that would be up for -298 +299 00:10:20,850 --> 00:10:23,730 mentoring me through it if I'm struggling?" -299 +300 00:10:23,730 --> 00:10:24,149 Dan: Yeah. -300 +301 00:10:24,149 --> 00:10:26,070 Bekah: And then that way, you know, you can pair up with -301 +302 00:10:26,075 --> 00:10:28,259 someone, you can work on those communication skills, and then -302 +303 00:10:28,259 --> 00:10:30,779 you don't have to feel nervous about what you're doing. -303 +304 00:10:30,784 --> 00:10:31,799 You have that support. -304 +305 00:10:31,860 --> 00:10:35,700 Dan: Agreed. And ... absolutely agreed. And, like, join Virtual -305 +306 00:10:35,700 --> 00:10:38,000 Coffee [chuckles], you know what -I mean? It's -- there's a +I mean? It's-- there's a -306 +307 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:38,580 lot of people -307 +308 00:10:38,580 --> 00:10:41,370 that are always down to help with that sort of thing. -308 +309 00:10:41,669 --> 00:10:43,649 And it's good. -309 +310 00:10:44,309 --> 00:10:44,519 Bekah: Yeah. -310 +311 00:10:45,570 --> 00:10:47,500 Dan: All right. Before we go on, I'm getting -311 +312 00:10:47,500 --> 00:10:49,800 really nervous that I forgot to hit record or it didn't work. -312 +313 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,000 So I'm just gonna go look at it- -313 +314 00:10:50,009 --> 00:10:51,000 Bekah: Yep. Go check it [laughs]. -314 +315 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:56,669 Dan: -really quick. Yeah. No, we're good. -315 +316 00:10:56,909 --> 00:10:58,800 Bekah: We're good. We're good. We've been recording. Per- -316 +317 00:10:59,000 --> 00:10:59,490 excellent. -317 +318 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:00,000 Dan: We're good. Everything is okay. -318 +319 00:10:59,495 --> 00:11:01,350 Bekah: Cuz I was gonna make you do the whole thing over. -319 +320 00:11:01,379 --> 00:11:02,639 Dan: Yeah, that would be rough. -320 +321 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:02,639 Bekah: Okay. So, let's see. -321 +322 00:11:02,639 --> 00:11:06,870 -Did we -- so your first role -- +Did we-- so your first role-- and- and along with landing -322 +323 00:11:06,870 --> 00:11:10,169 your first role, I think always finding community, -323 +324 00:11:10,169 --> 00:11:13,259 finding people, and remembering that, like, your network is -324 +325 00:11:13,259 --> 00:11:15,330 not just the people you know. It's the network of the -325 +326 00:11:15,330 --> 00:11:16,000 people you know. So- -326 +327 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:16,500 Dan: Yeah. -327 +328 00:11:16,500 --> 00:11:17,600 Bekah: -making connections that -328 +329 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,000 are not transactional, and like, "Hey, I want to know -329 +330 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:26,000 you so I can get a job," right? Like, get to know people and- -330 +331 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:26,200 Dan: Yeah. -331 +332 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:31,065 Bekah: -be their friends, be kind, don't criticize their -332 +333 00:11:31,575 --> 00:11:33,500 deadlift form, [Dan laughs] and -then you- you'll have a +then you-- you'll have a -333 +334 00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:33,945 better shot at finding a job. -334 +335 00:11:33,945 --> 00:11:37,300 Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Probably- probably just -335 +336 00:11:37,300 --> 00:11:39,800 -in general, not giving an -- you +in general, not giving an-- you know, giving advice to -336 +337 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,600 people who didn't ask for it, you know? Especially -337 +338 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:43,065 people you don't know. -338 +339 00:11:43,424 --> 00:11:45,000 Bekah: I mean, like, generally speaking, I -339 +340 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,975 like it when people give me -advice. I know that that's +advice. I know that that's, -340 +341 00:11:48,975 --> 00:11:51,345 -like kind of controversial, cuz +like, kind of controversial, cuz a lot of people are -341 +342 00:11:51,345 --> 00:11:51,420 like- -342 +343 00:11:51,420 --> 00:11:51,700 Dan: Oh, yeah [chuckles]. -343 +344 00:11:51,420 --> 00:11:53,955 Bekah: -"Don't give me advice. I didn't ask for it." -344 +345 00:11:54,254 --> 00:11:56,054 But I- I don't know. I like to hear what -345 +346 00:11:56,054 --> 00:11:59,384 other people have to say. And I often ask for advice a lot. -346 +347 00:11:59,389 --> 00:12:03,434 I guess that's another bit of advice is ask- ask for advice -347 +348 00:12:03,434 --> 00:12:06,735 because not everybody's just gonna give it to you. Also, -348 +349 00:12:06,735 --> 00:12:09,000 sometimes advice is bad. People get bad advice. -349 +350 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:09,615 Dan: That's not true. -350 +351 00:12:09,620 --> 00:12:11,924 Bekah: Like, also his deadlift stance [Dan chuckles] yesterday. -351 +352 00:12:12,615 --> 00:12:14,235 I'll get over that in a couple of weeks. -352 +353 00:12:14,235 --> 00:12:14,985 Dan: Yeah, right? -353 +354 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,000 -Bekah: I'm -- +Bekah: I'm-- -354 +355 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,000 Dan: I'm personally shocked -355 +356 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,000 that the drunk guy at the bar last night didn't have -356 +357 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,855 perfect deadlift form [laughs]. -357 +358 00:12:24,284 --> 00:12:25,965 Bekah: All right. Let's go to the next one. -358 +359 00:12:26,414 --> 00:12:27,164 Dan: Okay. Next question. -359 +360 00:12:27,585 --> 00:12:29,924 Bekah: I don't know what that -says. And, what happened? +says. And what happened? -360 +361 00:12:29,924 --> 00:12:30,975 Oh, no. -361 +362 00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:32,000 Dan: I- I don't know. -362 +363 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,735 Bekah: It might not let me answer. -363 +364 00:12:33,884 --> 00:12:36,825 Wait a minute. I don't wanna do that. [Silence] -364 +365 00:12:42,375 --> 00:12:44,384 -[chuckles] How does a computer +[Chuckles] How does a computer get drunk? -365 +366 00:12:45,575 --> 00:12:46,679 Dan: Well, do you know the answer? -366 +367 00:12:46,950 --> 00:12:47,610 Bekah: No. -367 +368 00:12:48,269 --> 00:12:49,080 Dan: Screenshots. -368 +369 00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:51,929 Bekah: [Laughs] Did you submit that question? -369 +370 00:12:52,059 --> 00:12:53,000 Dan: I- I did. I did. That was me. -370 +371 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:58,289 [All laugh] This is a good one, right? -371 +372 00:12:58,289 --> 00:13:00,840 Bekah: Who was the last dude you texted? -372 +373 00:13:01,289 --> 00:13:02,220 -Dan: Jesus Christ, people. +Dan: Jesus christ, people. -373 +374 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:10,335 Bekah: Let's see. Probably Dan. Probably -374 +375 00:13:10,335 --> 00:13:12,225 you. You were the- the last one I texted. -375 +376 00:13:12,225 --> 00:13:15,554 Dan: Yes. I don't know. I mean ... are- are you asking me? -376 +377 00:13:15,554 --> 00:13:16,725 Cuz I don't know- -377 +378 00:13:16,725 --> 00:13:17,000 Bekah: I don't know. -378 +379 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,000 Dan: I don't know who you texted. -379 +380 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:18,615 -Bekah: I- I didn't -- +Bekah: I- I didn't-- -380 +381 00:13:18,615 --> 00:13:19,875 Dan: You did text me recently. -381 +382 00:13:19,875 --> 00:13:22,514 Bekah: I did recently text you. About this conference. -382 +383 00:13:23,475 --> 00:13:25,014 Who was the last dude you texted? -383 +384 00:13:27,304 --> 00:13:30,000 -Dan: Mm ... I dunno. My -- one -of my friends? +Dan: Mm ... I dunno. My-- one of +my friends? -384 +385 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,004 One of my friends -385 +386 00:13:31,004 --> 00:13:32,745 just took his dog out in the canoe for the first time. -386 +387 00:13:32,745 --> 00:13:35,144 And so he was sharing pictures of that. And I said, -387 +388 00:13:35,325 --> 00:13:35,945 "That's cool." -388 +389 00:13:36,375 --> 00:13:36,664 Bekah: Nice. -389 +390 00:13:37,014 --> 00:13:37,304 Dan: Yeah. -390 +391 00:13:37,495 --> 00:13:39,825 Bekah: That was excellent. So- so there- there you have it. -391 +392 00:13:39,825 --> 00:13:41,000 We did really well. Those anonymous -392 +393 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,700 questions were fantastic. Thank you all for doing such -393 +394 00:13:43,700 --> 00:13:48,600 a good job of sending them [all laugh]. We do have a handful -394 +395 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:54,300 of non-anonymous questions. -Un-anonymous -- unanimous +Un-anonymous-- unanimous -395 +396 00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:54,600 question. -396 +397 00:13:54,659 --> 00:13:55,139 Dan: Unanimous? -397 +398 00:13:55,139 --> 00:13:56,519 Bekah: Mm-hmm. I think that's the right word. -398 +399 00:13:57,509 --> 00:13:59,100 Dan: Un-anonymous, I think. -399 +400 00:13:59,659 --> 00:14:05,340 Bekah: Un-anonymous. I wrote one of 'em down. -400 +401 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:06,300 Dan: Oh. -401 +402 00:14:06,300 --> 00:14:09,970 Bekah: So I wouldn't forget. Okay. This one comes from Meg. -402 +403 00:14:09,970 --> 00:14:12,029 -Dan: Is this notebook from like -1920 or something? +Dan: Is this notebook from, +like, 1920 or something? -403 +404 00:14:12,299 --> 00:14:14,340 Bekah: Listen. I keep buying these notebooks. -404 +405 00:14:14,340 --> 00:14:16,500 They sell them at T.J. Maxx in a pack of three. -405 +406 00:14:16,710 --> 00:14:19,559 This one says the right stuff. I like these notebooks. -406 +407 00:14:19,565 --> 00:14:20,519 Dan: Look at the inside though. Show them the inside. -407 +408 00:14:21,404 --> 00:14:22,544 Bekah: What's wrong with the inside? -408 +409 00:14:22,544 --> 00:14:26,684 Dan: It looks like it's, you know, paper from ... the -409 +410 00:14:26,684 --> 00:14:27,644 civil war or something [laughs]. -410 +411 00:14:29,565 --> 00:14:31,004 Bekah: [Chuckles] Is that what civil war paper looked like? -411 +412 00:14:31,105 --> 00:14:32,424 -Dan: I don't know. But, -probably. +Dan: I don't know. But probably. -412 +413 00:14:32,625 --> 00:14:35,475 Bekah: I think you're wrong. And a liar. -413 +414 00:14:35,884 --> 00:14:36,884 Dan: Oh, I and ... here we go. -414 +415 00:14:37,514 --> 00:14:38,325 Bekah: All right. This one's from Meg. -415 +416 00:14:38,774 --> 00:14:40,865 Is there anything you would've done differently -416 +417 00:14:40,934 --> 00:14:44,355 when it comes to Virtual Coffee's setup, organization, -417 +418 00:14:44,384 --> 00:14:47,565 time commitment, et cetera. You go first. -418 +419 00:14:47,565 --> 00:14:49,800 Dan: I mean, that's a really good question. But, like, it's -419 +420 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:51,800 hard to have an answer for it because everything -420 +421 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,600 that, like, has happened has been so organic, you know? -421 +422 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:54,825 Bekah: Yeah. -422 +423 00:14:54,825 --> 00:14:58,000 -Dan: And you- you, like, you +Dan: And you- you-- like, you think about, like, all the -423 +424 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:58,379 things that -424 +425 00:14:58,384 --> 00:15:00,000 we have going on right now, like, everything that's -425 +426 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,000 -in play and- and, like, yeah. +in play and- and, like-- yeah. Like, I can think of a -426 +427 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,500 lot of things that could be -better or, you know, +better, or, you know, -427 +428 00:15:06,500 --> 00:15:10,800 right now, or whatever. But ... I think if we had -428 +429 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,500 -started from scratch in, like -- +started from scratch in, like-- we're like, "Let's try to build -429 +430 00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:18,800 -this community, but like start ---," you know, I- I don't +this community, but, like, start +...," you know, I- I don't -430 +431 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:19,300 know. Who -431 +432 00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:20,475 -knows what we would've done. You +knows what we would've done, you know what I mean? -432 +433 00:15:20,475 --> 00:15:22,845 -And it probably, I don't know. +And it probably-- I don't know. It's a good chance -433 +434 00:15:22,850 --> 00:15:24,254 it wouldn't have worked maybe. You know what I mean? -434 +435 00:15:24,259 --> 00:15:24,400 Like- -435 +436 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:24,600 Bekah: Yeah. -436 +437 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:25,700 Dan: -like, I'd like to think it -437 +438 00:15:25,700 --> 00:15:29,000 -would've, but the- the -- one of -the beauties of the- of +would've, but the- the-- one of +the beauties of the-- of -438 +439 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,000 -the community -- of the Virtual +the community-- of the Virtual Coffee community is- is the -439 +440 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,184 sort of organic, like, nature of how all that starting it. -440 +441 00:15:34,184 --> 00:15:36,000 And of course, all that was, like, around you [chuckles]. -441 +442 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:36,644 But, like, -442 +443 00:15:37,095 --> 00:15:41,514 -it's -- and it's, like, one of +it's-- and it's, like, one of the reasons why Virtual Coffee -443 +444 00:15:41,514 --> 00:15:42,000 is sort of different and- -444 +445 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:42,300 Bekah: Yeah. -445 +446 00:15:42,300 --> 00:15:46,000 -Dan: -successful. I've -- I feel -it. As opposed, to, like +Dan: -successful. I've-- I feel +it. As opposed to, like -446 +447 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,504 ... I'm trying to think -447 +448 00:15:48,504 --> 00:15:51,414 -of an example, but, you know, I +of an example but, you know, I suppose there's people who -448 +449 00:15:51,414 --> 00:15:53,575 are like, "I'm gonna start a community," or something. -449 +450 00:15:53,605 --> 00:15:56,784 And sometimes they're cool, and sometimes they're not. But -450 +451 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,039 -you never know what it's -- -like, you never know what's +you never know what it's-- like, +you never know what's -451 +452 00:15:59,039 --> 00:16:02,070 gonna happen un- until it happens with- with, like, -452 +453 00:16:02,070 --> 00:16:03,090 groups of people, you know? -453 +454 00:16:03,330 --> 00:16:03,509 Bekah: Yeah. -454 +455 00:16:03,629 --> 00:16:06,899 Dan: So, I don't know ... I mean, I could think -455 +456 00:16:06,899 --> 00:16:08,389 -of, I don't know. I could think -of like a lot +of-- I don't know. I could think +of, like, a lot of, -456 +457 00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:13,000 -of -- like little instant, like +like, little instant-- like, instances of times that like, -457 +458 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,800 "Okay, I wish I made a di-different decision there," -458 +459 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:15,700 you know? But -459 +460 00:16:15,700 --> 00:16:19,800 -that's- that's less like -- +that's- that's less like-- that's more just like I make -460 +461 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:20,000 mistakes, -461 +462 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:25,000 not- not so much like ... you know, tactical, like, planning -462 +463 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,149 stuff. You know what I mean? -463 +464 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:26,480 Bekah: Yeah. -464 +465 00:16:26,950 --> 00:16:27,750 Dan: I dunno. What about you? -465 +466 00:16:27,750 --> 00:16:29,690 Bekah: Well, I think it's nice -because- because of like the +because- because of, like, the -466 +467 00:16:29,690 --> 00:16:33,889 authenticity and the organic -evolution of Virtual Coffee, +evolution of Virtual Coffee -467 +468 00:16:34,129 --> 00:16:38,120 that we have more freedom to make mistakes almost, right? -468 +469 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:38,179 Dan: Yeah. -469 +470 00:16:38,210 --> 00:16:40,700 Bekah: Because we know that the people who are coming -470 +471 00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:43,519 to Virtual Coffee are okay with that. Because they know -471 +472 00:16:43,519 --> 00:16:46,470 that we're human beings, and we, like, we do get things -472 +473 00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:49,980 wrong sometimes. I, for sure, have gotten things wrong on a -473 +474 00:16:50,190 --> 00:16:50,500 number of things at- -474 +475 00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:50,700 Dan: Yeah. -475 +476 00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:53,044 Bekah: -Virtual Coffee. And, you know, you- -476 +477 00:16:53,044 --> 00:16:54,870 you try and get 'em right the next time, you learn -477 +478 00:16:54,870 --> 00:16:56,000 your lesson- -478 +479 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:56,200 Dan: Yeah. -479 +480 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,110 Bekah: -you apologize when you need to. -480 +481 00:16:58,470 --> 00:17:04,480 And I- I think a lot about what I would do differently. -481 +482 00:17:05,220 --> 00:17:08,250 But I actually think it's kind of a strength that we -482 +483 00:17:08,250 --> 00:17:11,279 had no idea what we were doing in the beginning. -483 +484 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:11,519 Dan: Yeah. -484 +485 00:17:11,849 --> 00:17:14,730 Bekah: Because, you know, now that I'm community building -485 +486 00:17:14,730 --> 00:17:19,079 professionally, I'm, like, diving into things like -486 +487 00:17:19,150 --> 00:17:24,000 metrics, and planning, and a lot of different, like, -487 +488 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,960 processes and procedures that I wouldn't have considered before. -488 +489 00:17:28,019 --> 00:17:31,680 And I think that sometimes it actually makes me less creative -489 +490 00:17:31,684 --> 00:17:34,500 with- -490 +491 00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:34,700 Dan: Yeah. -491 +492 00:17:34,700 --> 00:17:34,701 Bekah: -what the community will look like, because I see -492 +493 00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:37,740 what everybody else is doing. And it feels like these are -493 +494 00:17:37,740 --> 00:17:39,000 the things that you should be doing if you're building -494 +495 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:39,500 a community- -495 +496 00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:39,700 Dan: Right. -496 +497 00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:41,460 Bekah: -because this is what the experts say. -497 +498 00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:45,180 -And I'm like -- sometimes I get -caught up with -- in it, like +And I'm like-- sometimes I get +caught up with-- in it, like, -498 +499 00:17:45,180 --> 00:17:46,500 thinking about Virtual Coffee. And I'm like- -499 +500 00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:46,700 Dan: Yeah. -500 +501 00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:47,369 Bekah: -"No," you know, -501 +502 00:17:47,369 --> 00:17:52,920 -"This is -- that's not true to +"This is-- that's not true to who we are as a community." -502 +503 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:53,009 Dan: Right. -503 +504 00:17:53,670 --> 00:17:56,519 Bekah: But I'm, like, trying to -think too [sigh] [silence] +think too [sighs] [silence] -504 +505 00:18:01,079 --> 00:18:05,500 what I would do differently. I- I think I would find more -505 +506 00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:10,700 ways early on to allow people to support the efforts of -506 +507 00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:13,700 -Virtual Coffee, to provide more +Virtual Coffee to provide more autonomy for members -507 +508 00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:16,000 to do their own things. Like, I'm really enjoying -508 +509 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,500 seeing the coffee table groups- -509 +510 00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:18,600 Dan: Mm-hmm. -510 +511 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,954 Bekah: -grow, and the different -511 +512 00:18:20,954 --> 00:18:22,500 things that we're doing. Ray is doing the Virtual -512 +513 00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:23,800 Coffee speech club now. -513 +514 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:24,000 Dan: Yeah. -514 +515 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,700 Bekah: And, like, I love that. That's -515 +516 00:18:26,700 --> 00:18:29,800 one of my favorite things. But, like, finding more ways -516 +517 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,000 to empower people to do that. Like, honestly, I wish that -517 +518 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,000 I had more time in the day because I think that we have -518 +519 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,700 so many great people at Virtual Coffee that are willing to -519 +520 00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:42,000 provide support for- -520 +521 00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:43,000 Dan: Yeah. -521 +522 00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:44,700 Bekah: -a lot of different -522 +523 00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:50,700 things. And finding ... more ways to empower them to do -523 +524 00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:55,335 that is one of those things that I still wish that I could do -524 +525 00:18:55,335 --> 00:18:55,755 better. -525 +526 00:18:55,904 --> 00:19:00,434 Dan: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's ... that's a hard problem. -526 +527 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:05,144 -And, you know, I- I know of -- +And, you know, I- I know of-- both from my experience and -527 +528 00:19:05,144 --> 00:19:07,994 from, like, talking to other people, it's very hard to find -528 +529 00:19:07,994 --> 00:19:10,755 people that are willing to, like, put time and effort into -529 +530 00:19:10,759 --> 00:19:12,585 something like a volunteer thing like that, you know? -530 +531 00:19:12,589 --> 00:19:16,000 And I think that just goes ... to show how awesome -531 +532 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,500 Virtual Coffee is. That we have all these people that -532 +533 00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:20,000 doing this stuff, you know? And the- the to- coffee table -533 +534 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,000 -groups, all -- almost all of -them started before we, like -- +groups, all-- almost all of them +started before we, like-- -534 +535 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,300 just on their own, you know? Right? -535 +536 00:19:25,300 --> 00:19:25,599 Bekah: Yeah. -536 +537 00:19:25,630 --> 00:19:27,300 Dan: Like, before we had anything around them. -537 +538 00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:27,910 Like, we are building -538 +539 00:19:27,910 --> 00:19:31,424 stuff to support them now because they existed already, -539 +540 00:19:31,424 --> 00:19:35,055 you know? As opposed to, like, we had some idea for coffee -540 +541 00:19:35,055 --> 00:19:37,194 -table groups, and then we're +table groups and then we're trying to find people to- to -541 +542 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,815 do them or something like that, right? And that's, you know, it -542 +543 00:19:40,815 --> 00:19:42,944 just goes back to the, you know, the organic -543 +544 00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:48,700 nature of Virtual Coffee. And ... if we were planning -544 +545 00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:51,000 -this -- I mean, you could see -like special interest +this-- I mean, you could see, +like, special interest -545 +546 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,800 groups being a thing to plan [chuckles], you know, if -546 +547 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,795 you're trying to plan a group -ahead of time, or a community. +ahead of time-- or a community. -547 +548 00:19:57,914 --> 00:20:01,000 -But, I don't know. It's- it's +But-- I don't know. It's- it's hard to imagine, -548 +549 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:05,000 like, trying to do all this stuff a-ahead of time, or -549 +550 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,045 whatever [chuckles], you know what I mean? -550 +551 00:20:06,134 --> 00:20:06,434 Bekah: Yeah. -551 +552 00:20:07,799 --> 00:20:09,420 Dan: Also, it's not usually how my brain works -552 +553 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,300 that way anyway. I- I mean, [chuckles] the- the way that -553 +554 00:20:12,300 --> 00:20:12,539 things have -554 +555 00:20:12,539 --> 00:20:15,869 -gone is what -- you know, is +gone is what-- you know, is obviously, like, it's more how -555 +556 00:20:15,869 --> 00:20:18,000 my brain works anyway, you know? Kind of like- -556 +557 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:18,300 Bekah: Same. -557 +558 00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:18,509 Dan: -go along with -558 +559 00:20:18,509 --> 00:20:20,670 things and trying to make things -better, but, I don't know. +better, but-- I don't know. -559 +560 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,970 It's ... well, it is what it is. I don't know. -560 +561 00:20:24,150 --> 00:20:27,800 Bekah: Yeah. I mean, I ... I'm, like, super proud of -561 +562 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,800 us for early on getting a lot of documentation in -562 +563 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,000 place because that- -563 +564 00:20:33,100 --> 00:20:33,300 Dan: Yes. -564 +565 00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:36,809 Bekah: -has helped to provide a better space for people. -565 +566 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:36,300 Dan: Yeah. -566 +567 00:20:36,809 --> 00:20:40,000 -Bekah: I- I would like- I would +Bekah: I- I would like-- I would like to do -567 +568 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,900 a better job of onboarding new community members. -568 +569 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:44,200 Dan: Yep. -569 +570 00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:46,769 Bekah: And I feel like that- that from the beginning. So I -570 +571 00:20:46,769 --> 00:20:49,380 -feel like a lot of the, like, -would you do differently is -- +feel like a lot of the-- like, +would you do differently is-- -571 +572 00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:53,670 are still things that, like, I would like to do more of now. -572 +573 00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:54,750 Dan: Yeah, sure. Yeah. -573 +574 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,000 Bekah: Especially now that we have -574 +575 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,600 new members coming in. It's so great to see new faces -575 +576 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,180 at Virtual Coffee again. -576 +577 00:21:00,569 --> 00:21:01,240 Dan: Yeah, absolutely. -577 +578 00:21:01,380 --> 00:21:04,259 Bekah: That's been a- a really bright side of -578 +579 00:21:04,265 --> 00:21:06,800 the last couple of weeks. But I just wanna make sure -579 +580 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,700 that everybody's taken care of. -580 +581 00:21:08,940 --> 00:21:12,700 Dan: Yep. Yeah, I agree. And -that's like, you know, so +that's, like, you know-- so -581 +582 00:21:12,700 --> 00:21:15,329 there's, like, technology stuff that I- I just wanna change now. -582 +583 00:21:15,509 --> 00:21:18,210 -It's- it's not even- it's not +It's- it's not even-- it's not even like, "Oh, I wish we -583 +584 00:21:18,210 --> 00:21:21,390 had done this differently." It's just ... well, now we need it. -584 +585 00:21:21,450 --> 00:21:23,190 Like, now we need things. Like, there's things -585 +586 00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:25,500 we need, you know? So let's change them. The- the -586 +587 00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:27,500 new member thing, especially. It's especially cuz it's built, -587 +588 00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:30,000 like, originally around Slack [chuckles], you know? -588 +589 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:30,300 Bekah: Yeah. -589 +590 00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:32,220 -Dan: And that's ... that sounds --- +Dan: And that's ... that +sounds-- -590 +591 00:21:32,220 --> 00:21:33,750 Bekah: That, maybe, is something I would change. -591 +592 00:21:33,809 --> 00:21:36,000 Dan: I don't know. Yeah. I mean, like, maybe. But, like, -592 +593 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,500 it was really before Discord, -like, took off- like, took off +like, took off-- like, took off -593 +594 00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:41,700 for people outside of gaming, you know? -594 +595 00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:42,000 Bekah: Mm-hmm. -595 +596 00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:44,500 Dan: And ... I don't know. -596 -00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:46,700 -That -- there's any better -option and it, like, created the - 597 -00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:49,039 -community, honestly. Like, it -- -like, you know what I mean? +00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:46,700 +That-- there's any better option +and it, like, created the 598 -00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:52,069 -It's -- I mean, the Zooms and -the- and the Slack, it's like, +00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:49,039 +community, honestly. Like, it-- +like-- you know what I mean? 599 -00:21:52,069 --> 00:21:56,000 -it's what was -- it was the -whole thing for first ... +00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:50,554 +It's-- I mean, the Zooms and +the-- and the Slack, it's, 600 +00:21:50,554 --> 00:21:52,069 +like-- + +601 +00:21:52,069 --> 00:21:56,000 +it's what was-- it was the whole +thing for first ... + +602 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:01,000 however long. I don't know. I dunno. Whatever. However -601 +603 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:07,000 many months or whatever it was, you know? So- so yeah. -602 +604 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,769 Yeah. There's things that, like, I'd like to see improved and -603 +605 00:22:09,769 --> 00:22:12,920 -stuff. But it's -- I don't look +stuff. But it's-- I don't look at them as- as, you know, -604 +606 00:22:12,980 --> 00:22:13,970 regrets or whatever, if that makes sense. -605 +607 00:22:14,329 --> 00:22:20,800 Bekah: Yeah. Let me ... okay. So the next question is, what's -606 +608 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,434 the hardest part ... of community? -607 +609 00:22:26,714 --> 00:22:29,295 Dan: Of, like, run- running a community? -608 +610 00:22:30,345 --> 00:22:33,345 Bekah: Just of community. So you -can take it as you- as +can take it as you-- as -609 +611 00:22:33,345 --> 00:22:35,039 you ... see fit. -610 +612 00:22:37,230 --> 00:22:39,029 -Dan: I don't know, man. I -- -like, alright. +Dan: I don't know, man. I-- +like-- alright. -611 +613 00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:43,700 -So, for me, part of -- as a +So, for me, part of-- as a member of communities is- is -612 +614 00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:44,430 just like ... -613 +615 00:22:46,319 --> 00:22:50,800 it- it takes, like, emotional energy for me to engage with -614 +616 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,099 things, engage with people, and do things or whatever. -615 +617 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,190 -And so sometimes I find myself -like just falling +And so sometimes I find myself, +like, just falling -616 +618 00:22:57,190 --> 00:22:59,944 -out of communities or- or just -like not -- whatever. +out of communities or- or just, +like, not-- whatever. -617 +619 00:22:59,944 --> 00:23:01,595 And it- it even happens in Virtual Coffee sometimes. -618 +620 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,600 I mean, you and I ... I mean, we talk all the -619 +621 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,000 time, like, doing management -side. But, like, I- I'll +side. But, like, I-- I'll -620 +622 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:13,800 miss, like, coffees for weeks -because it's like ... 8.50 +because it's, like ... eight -621 +623 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,700 -in the morning, you know? And- -and it's not -- I'm +fifty in the morning, you know? +And- and it's not-- I'm -622 +624 00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:18,500 -not tired or anything. It's just -like, I need- I +not tired or anything. It's +just, like, I need-- I -623 +625 00:23:18,500 --> 00:23:20,700 -needed a certain amount of -- a +needed a certain amount of-- a store of energy to be able to, -624 +626 00:23:20,700 --> 00:23:22,869 like, talk to people, you know? Especially people I don't know. -625 +627 00:23:23,140 --> 00:23:25,630 And I love it. But, like, sometimes it's- -626 +628 00:23:25,660 --> 00:23:29,000 sometimes it's hard. And so ... -I -- although that will say -- +I-- although that will say-- -627 +629 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,545 I will say, like, every time that I've felt that -628 +630 00:23:31,545 --> 00:23:35,144 way but then still gone, I've been very glad that I went- -629 +631 00:23:35,144 --> 00:23:35,204 Bekah: Yeah. -630 +632 00:23:35,204 --> 00:23:37,625 Dan: -you know what I mean? Like, it's- it's one of -631 +633 00:23:37,625 --> 00:23:38,300 those, like, "Catch-22" where my brain is, like, fooling -632 +634 00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:39,224 me about it, you know? -633 +635 00:23:39,230 --> 00:23:39,285 Bekah: Yeah. -634 +636 00:23:39,944 --> 00:23:41,714 Dan: But, like, overcoming that, -that's -- that can be hard. +that's-- that can be hard. -635 +637 00:23:41,954 --> 00:23:45,545 And then another thing for me is, my memory's -636 +638 00:23:45,545 --> 00:23:47,674 really bad, especially with, like, names and stuff, -637 +639 00:23:48,065 --> 00:23:51,305 -and, like -- a-and so, you know, -remembering people that I met +and, like-- a-and so, you know, +remembering people that I met, -638 +640 00:23:51,335 --> 00:23:53,700 -or like that I'm supposed to -know or let- you know, +or, like, that I'm supposed to +know, or let- you know, -639 +641 00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:54,214 -I'll- I'll -- +I'll- I'll-- -640 +642 00:23:54,214 --> 00:23:57,214 -I sensibly do know, but have -forgotten who they are or what +I sensibly do know but have +forgotten who they are, or what -641 +643 00:23:57,214 --> 00:23:59,555 -their name is or, you know, that -happens to me, like, a lot. +their name is, or-- you know, +that happens to me, like, a lot. -642 +644 00:23:59,555 --> 00:24:02,000 And it's much easier online because you can kinda -643 +645 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,000 -like, look -- try to Google them +like look-- try to google them or something [chuckles], -644 +646 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:04,414 you know? -645 +647 00:24:04,414 --> 00:24:04,565 Bekah: Yeah. -646 +648 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,700 Dan: Harder in-person. Like, it's more- more -647 +649 00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:08,700 embarrassing for me in-person. -So it's -- that's my other- +So it's-- that's my other- -648 +650 00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:09,484 Bekah: Yeah. -649 +651 00:24:10,174 --> 00:24:11,200 Dan: -struggle. What about you? -650 +652 00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:16,700 Bekah: Well ... I guess the- the thing that I never -651 +653 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:17,805 would've thought -652 +654 00:24:17,805 --> 00:24:22,875 -about, before this community, -was last year when Mike passed +about—before this community—was +last year when Mike passed -653 +655 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:28,505 away. That was, like, obviously a really hard experience. -654 +656 00:24:29,295 --> 00:24:30,765 He was an active community member. -655 +657 00:24:30,795 --> 00:24:34,600 Like, everybody loved him. But then, like, -656 +658 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,000 making decisions- -657 +659 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:36,300 Dan: Yeah. -658 +660 00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:37,000 Bekah: -about that- -659 +661 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:37,484 Dan: Yep. -660 +662 00:24:37,845 --> 00:24:41,500 Bekah: -and having to tell -people over and over was -- +people over and over was-- -661 +663 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:43,434 Dan: Yeah? -662 +664 00:24:43,434 --> 00:24:45,900 -Bekah: I- I -- like, something +Bekah: I- I-- like, something that you can't ever be -663 +665 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:46,724 prepared for. -664 +666 00:24:46,724 --> 00:24:52,335 And so, like, experiencing the losses of community members -665 +667 00:24:53,204 --> 00:24:56,800 and with community members. And, like, trying to leave -666 +668 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,000 space for people to experience grief in different ways- -667 +669 00:25:00,900 --> 00:25:01,234 Dan: Yeah. -668 +670 00:25:01,244 --> 00:25:05,000 -Bekah: -is just -- I- I don't -know. I felt like, I was +Bekah: -is just-- I- I don't +know. I felt like I was -669 +671 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:10,914 stretched beyond my limits of human being. Like, I- -670 +672 00:25:10,914 --> 00:25:11,115 Dan: Yeah. -671 +673 00:25:11,115 --> 00:25:14,000 -Bekah: -went through -- and- -and, you know, it was hard +Bekah: -went through-- and- and, +you know, it was hard -672 +674 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,164 -with Mike, but like +with Mike but, like, -673 +675 00:25:15,164 --> 00:25:17,325 there have been other losses in the communities, right? -674 +676 00:25:17,325 --> 00:25:20,325 Like, there have been miscarriages, there -675 +677 00:25:20,325 --> 00:25:23,625 have been jobs lost, there have been relationships -676 +678 00:25:23,625 --> 00:25:27,800 that are no longer. And when people, like, confide -677 +679 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:34,000 in you, and talk to you about that, it's just ... one of -678 +680 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,700 -those -- it is definitely the +those-- it is definitely the hardest- -679 +681 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:37,500 Dan: Yeah. -680 +682 00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:40,799 Bekah: -emotional labor that- that -681 +683 00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:45,500 I have ever had to put in anywhere. It- [chuckles] -682 +684 00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:48,500 it's like a "Catch-22" though, right? Like- -683 +685 00:25:48,700 --> 00:25:49,000 Dan: Mm-hmm. -684 +686 00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:51,579 Bekah: -you have to experience ... -685 +687 00:25:53,009 --> 00:25:58,700 like, the- the full humanness to really be close and -686 +688 00:25:58,700 --> 00:25:59,500 supportive to the- -687 +689 00:25:59,500 --> 00:25:59,800 Dan: Yeah. -688 +690 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,140 Bekah: -the people around you. -689 +691 00:26:01,140 --> 00:26:06,029 -So like, would I love to not +So, like, would I love to not ever have to experience -690 +692 00:26:06,035 --> 00:26:07,000 any of those things? -691 +693 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:07,200 Dan: Sure. -692 +694 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,300 Bekah: Yeah. But I think it's -the -- a key part +the-- a key part -693 +695 00:26:11,300 --> 00:26:14,000 of understanding the people in front of us -694 +696 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,400 -to be there through it. So -- +to be there through it. So-- -695 -00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,720 +697 +00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,560 Dan: Yeah. No, I- I- I mean, I -totally agree. And that's like, +totally agree. And that's, -696 +698 +00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,720 +like-- + +699 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:26,700 it was- it was incredibly hard. -A- and ... but I just -- I was, +A- and ... but I just-- I was, -697 +700 00:26:26,700 --> 00:26:28,500 like, while you were talking -just now, I was just like, +just now, I was just, like, -698 +701 00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:31,700 thinking of how ... thankful I am that, like, Virtual -699 +702 00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:35,000 Coffee is- is what it is. And, like, it's a place where -700 +703 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,500 people can come to, like, share -... this- this horrible thing -- +... this- this horrible thing-- -701 +704 00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:40,000 like, the heavy feelings or- -702 +705 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:40,200 Bekah: Yeah. -703 +706 00:26:40,300 --> 00:26:44,700 -Dan: -you know? It's -- it +Dan: -you know? It's-- it obviously is -704 +707 00:26:44,700 --> 00:26:47,500 -hard. But I think, like, my -- I -guess my point is just +hard. But I think, like, my-- I +guess my point is just, -705 +708 00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:53,300 like ... that it's worth it. Like [laughs]- -706 +709 00:26:53,300 --> 00:26:53,500 Bekah: Yeah. -707 -00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:54,569 -Dan: -I guess it- it's my point. - -708 -00:26:54,569 --> 00:26:55,000 -You know what I mean? +710 +00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:55,000 +Dan: -I guess it-- it's my +point, you know what I mean? -709 +711 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:55,300 Bekah: Yeah. -710 +712 00:26:55,300 --> 00:26:57,000 -Dan: Like, the -- like, it is +Dan: Like, the-- like, it is, like, -711 +713 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,000 -it- it- it's ... yeah. It's -that. It's- it's just -- it's +it- it-- it's ... yeah. It's +that. It's- it's just-- it's -712 +714 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,000 -hard, but like, it's also like --- it's what makes Virtual +hard but, like, it's also, +like-- it's what makes Virtual -713 +715 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,000 Coffee, like, what it is, you -know? I mean, the -- that's- +know? I mean, the-- that's- -714 +716 00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:11,000 that's sort of, like, -connection. The, you know, the- +connection. The-- you know, the- -715 +717 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,000 the intimate connection, right? -Is- is -- I started noticing it +Is- is-- I started noticing it -716 +718 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,000 even before ... maybe right -around -- well, like during +around-- well, like, during -717 +719 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,000 our, like, original -718 +720 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,000 Hacktoberfest time, you know? -Like, when we all started like +Like, when we all started, like, -719 +721 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,700 -really doing that, but like, -just the -- alright. This is +really doing that but, like, +just the-- alright. This is -720 +722 00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:26,300 -gonna, like, sound -- +gonna, like, sound-- -721 -00:27:26,300 --> 00:27:29,000 +723 +00:27:26,300 --> 00:27:27,650 it might sound like silly. But, -like, the fact that, like people +like, the fact that, like, -722 +724 +00:27:27,650 --> 00:27:29,000 +people + +725 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,039 would just, like, threw around the heart emoji, you know? -723 -00:27:31,099 --> 00:27:34,240 -And like ... just to people, you -know? Like, not- not your best +726 +00:27:31,099 --> 00:27:32,669 +And, like ... just to people, +you know? Like, not- not your -724 +727 +00:27:32,669 --> 00:27:34,239 +best + +728 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,369 -friends or not -- but just like +friends or not-- but just, like, people, like, in the community, -725 +729 00:27:36,369 --> 00:27:38,440 you know, made me feel good. I -don't- I don't know why. +don't-- I don't know why. -726 +730 00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:44,019 -Like -- and- and- and to be able -to also -- like, also start +Like-- and- and- and to be able +to also-- like, also start -727 +731 00:27:44,025 --> 00:27:45,789 -throwing around the heart emoji, +throwing around the heart emoji or whatever, you -728 +732 00:27:45,789 --> 00:27:47,710 -know? Like, I -- it's like a -- -it's like kind of a silly +know? Like, I-- it's like a-- +it's, like, kind of a silly -729 +733 00:27:47,710 --> 00:27:51,500 way to say it. But, like, to- to both share ... you -730 +734 00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:54,009 know, I guess sharing it, right? -Like, both -- like, two ways, +Like, both-- like, two ways, -731 +735 00:27:54,009 --> 00:27:54,700 right? You know what I mean? -732 +736 00:27:54,700 --> 00:27:55,000 Bekah: Yeah. -733 +737 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,259 -Dan: There's like -- there's- +Dan: There's, like-- there's- there's good -734 +738 00:27:56,259 --> 00:28:00,500 -feelings coming ... both ways, -and I -- from everybody +feelings coming ... both ways +and I-- from everybody -735 +739 00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:04,089 in the community. And, like, I -dunno. This -- it's good. +dunno. This-- it's good. -736 +740 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,900 Bekah: Yeah. I think when you can eg- share -737 +741 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:12,269 your losses openly like that, then you celebrate your wins- -738 +742 00:28:12,269 --> 00:28:12,359 Dan: Right. -739 +743 00:28:12,450 --> 00:28:15,269 Bekah: -you know, just as strongly in the other direction. -740 +744 00:28:15,660 --> 00:28:19,289 So it- it is definitely one of the hardest, but one of the -741 +745 00:28:19,319 --> 00:28:23,130 most rewarding to be able to know that there are people -742 +746 00:28:23,130 --> 00:28:26,009 out there that trust you to share that information that -743 +747 00:28:26,009 --> 00:28:27,990 you know. That if you're going to be going through -744 +748 00:28:27,990 --> 00:28:31,259 something hard, that there are gonna be people there too. -745 +749 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,174 And I know that my empathy and understanding of other people -746 +750 00:28:35,174 --> 00:28:38,204 -has definitely -- I feel like- +has definitely-- I feel like- like "The Grinch", right? -747 +751 00:28:38,204 --> 00:28:39,000 Like [laughs]- -748 +752 00:28:39,700 --> 00:28:40,000 Dan: Yeah [laughs]. -749 +753 00:28:41,234 --> 00:28:42,000 Bekah: I was a little bit of "The Grinch" -750 +754 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,335 before Virtual Coffee [laughs]. -751 +755 00:28:43,335 --> 00:28:45,500 -Dan: [Inaudible] Two- two -- -three- three sizes. It's -- +Dan: [Inaudible] Two- two-- +three- three sizes. It's-- -752 +756 00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:46,000 Bekah: Yeah. -753 +757 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:47,900 Dan: No, that's a great call. -754 +758 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,500 And that's a good point. Like, I mean, I have learned -755 +759 00:28:49,500 --> 00:28:52,600 -so much just about like ... +so much just about, like ... yeah. Expressing myself and -756 +760 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:53,000 -talking to -- +talking to-- -757 +761 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:59,000 connecting with people and ... -yeah. My -- I was gonna say, +yeah. My-- I was gonna say, -758 +762 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,000 like, my- my, like, emotional literacy, I feel like has -759 +763 00:29:01,019 --> 00:29:05,000 exploded over the last few years. It- it reminds me of s- -760 +764 00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:09,500 ... I forget what we were talking about, but I was -761 +765 00:29:09,500 --> 00:29:13,000 talking with somebody and I was- -I was like -- they were +I was, like-- they were, -762 +766 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,700 -like -- this was earlier in -pandemic when things were +like-- this was earlier in +pandemic when things were, -763 +767 00:29:15,700 --> 00:29:18,095 -like, still like a lot more shut -down, you know? +like, still, like, a lot more +shutdown, you know? -764 +768 00:29:18,095 --> 00:29:20,464 And they were talking about how -they hadn't, like- they +they hadn't, like-- they -765 +769 00:29:20,464 --> 00:29:22,115 hadn't, like, meeting new people or they haven't talked, you -766 +770 00:29:22,115 --> 00:29:23,000 know, like, all this stuff. And I'm like, "I've actually, -767 +771 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,000 like, made more friends." -768 +772 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:26,200 Bekah: Yeah. -769 +773 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:27,000 Dan: And it is because of Virtual -770 +774 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,000 -Coffee -- or once Virtual Coffee -started, but like, made +Coffee-- or once Virtual Coffee +started but, like, made -771 +775 00:29:28,069 --> 00:29:32,000 -more friends -- new friends in -that time, in the last three +more friends-- new friends in +that time-- in the last three -772 +776 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,700 years than I had in the last 10 years before that [chuckles], -773 +777 00:29:34,700 --> 00:29:35,000 I think, -774 +778 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,000 you know? Like, put together. -And like- and like good +And, like-- and, like, good -775 +779 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:38,500 friends. Not- -776 +780 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:39,200 Bekah: Yeah. -777 +781 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,000 Dan: -you know, not just like random Twitter -778 +782 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,210 followers or something, you -know- you know what I mean? +know-- you know what I mean? -779 +783 00:29:42,214 --> 00:29:46,529 -Like ... and- and, yeah. I mean, -that's all- that's all +Like ... and- and-- yeah. I +mean, that's all-- that's all -780 +784 00:29:46,529 --> 00:29:49,470 Virtual Coffee, you know? It's- -it's just like -- it's +it's just, like-- it's -781 +785 00:29:49,470 --> 00:29:49,650 good stuff. -782 +786 00:29:50,099 --> 00:29:52,900 Bekah: Yeah. And it's great. Like, we get to -783 +787 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,000 meet up some of us. -784 +788 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:54,765 Dan: I know. Well, this is -[inaudible] -- +[inaudible]-- -785 +789 00:29:54,765 --> 00:29:56,234 Bekah: Which is really, really nice. -786 +790 00:29:56,234 --> 00:29:57,500 Dan: Yeah. This is the second time that -787 +791 00:29:57,500 --> 00:30:01,875 Bekah and I have met in-person. -Cuz -- and when- when did we +Cuz-- and when- when did we -788 +792 00:30:01,875 --> 00:30:03,434 -meet? When did- when did we, +meet? When did-- when did we, like, start working together? -789 +793 00:30:03,434 --> 00:30:04,500 It's 20 ... 19? -790 +794 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,000 -Bekah: July of two thousand -- +Bekah: July of two thousand-- -791 +795 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:07,300 Dan: 18? -792 +796 00:30:07,300 --> 00:30:07,600 Bekah: 18. -793 +797 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:08,500 Dan: 18? -794 +798 00:30:08,500 --> 00:30:09,000 Bekah: I think. -795 +799 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,500 -Dan: Okay. Yeah. So -- +Dan: Okay. Yeah. So-- -796 +800 00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:13,000 Bekah: Yeah. -797 +801 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,000 -Dan: Two times every ... four -- +Dan: Two times every ... four-- what year is it now? -798 +802 00:30:16,964 --> 00:30:17,200 Bekah: 22. -799 +803 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,500 Dan: 22? So it ... two times every three years s-see each -800 +804 00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:21,800 other in-person? -801 +805 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:22,000 Bekah: Yeah. -802 +806 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:22,500 Dan: Right? -803 +807 00:30:22,500 --> 00:30:24,289 Bekah: Yeah. And we're in Kansas -City. So -- +City. So-- -804 +808 00:30:24,289 --> 00:30:25,019 Dan: We're in Kansas City right now. Make sense [laughs]. -805 +809 00:30:25,019 --> 00:30:27,000 -Bekah: We live like two hours +Bekah: We live, like, two hours from each other, like [laughs] -806 +810 00:30:28,170 --> 00:30:28,500 -... but -- +... but-- -807 +811 00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:30,150 Dan: This is the only place that -would take us really. So -- +would take us, really. So-- -808 +812 00:30:30,150 --> 00:30:30,800 Bekah: Yeah. -809 +813 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:31,200 Dan: Yeah. -810 +814 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,849 Bekah: I guess that's understandable. -811 +815 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,700 All right. Let's see what other questions. -812 +816 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,500 Dan: We got [inaudible] time over your head [??]. -813 +817 00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:39,000 Bekah: We still got- -814 +818 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:39,500 Dan: Oh, we got. -815 +819 00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:40,710 Bekah: -some time. -816 +820 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,609 Dan: Twenty minutes-ish before -the -- before hours up. I dunno. +the-- before hours up. I dunno. -817 +821 00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:48,000 Bekah: Um ... oh, okay. -818 +822 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,000 Dan: I suppose we should have -819 +823 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,410 said something on Slack about how we are going live. -820 +824 00:30:51,789 --> 00:30:52,059 Bekah: I did. -821 +825 00:30:52,380 --> 00:30:52,769 Dan: Oh, good job. -822 +826 00:30:52,859 --> 00:30:53,279 Bekah: Don't worry. -823 +827 00:30:53,549 --> 00:30:54,359 Dan: Did you do it on Twitter too? -824 +828 00:30:54,660 --> 00:30:55,500 Bekah: I didn't on Twitter though. -825 +829 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,000 -Dan: Suck. Hey, I'm gonna -- +Dan: Suck. Hey, I'm gonna-- -826 +830 00:30:56,500 --> 00:31:01,700 Bekah: Sorry. Can't cover all the spaces. Uh-oh. What did you -827 +831 00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:05,644 do? Did it pause it? -828 +832 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:08,900 -Dan: I don't- I don't know if it -did for that +Dan: I don't-- I don't know if +it did for that -829 +833 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,759 moment, but it is going again. So ... we're in good shape. -830 +834 00:31:13,329 --> 00:31:15,119 Alright. The recording [inaudible] of technical issues. -831 +835 00:31:15,809 --> 00:31:16,559 -We've been recording for like +We've been recording for, like, half hour or so. -832 +836 00:31:16,559 --> 00:31:18,000 -Bekah: You need to sit -- be +Bekah: You need to sit-- be -833 +837 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,529 -in -- closer to your mic. Cuz I +in-- closer to your mic. Cuz I can't hear you. -834 +838 00:31:21,244 --> 00:31:22,845 -Dan: Has it -- that been true -the whole time? Or just now, +Dan: Has it-- that been true the +whole time? Or just now, -835 +839 00:31:22,845 --> 00:31:23,500 since I got up? -836 +840 00:31:23,500 --> 00:31:24,855 -Bekah: It was like, just since +Bekah: It was, like, just since you got up. -837 +841 00:31:24,855 --> 00:31:25,000 Dan: Okay, good. -838 +842 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,000 Bekah: All right. Where are the questions? -839 +843 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,555 Dan: I don't know. -840 +844 00:31:28,484 --> 00:31:29,384 Bekah: There was another one. -And -- +And-- -841 +845 00:31:29,384 --> 00:31:30,000 Dan: Oh, Ayu had a question that -was -- +was-- -842 +846 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,664 I know it was a trap. -843 +847 00:31:32,535 --> 00:31:33,555 Bekah: It was a trap? -844 +848 00:31:33,559 --> 00:31:33,855 Dan: Yeah, for me. -845 +849 00:31:34,275 --> 00:31:37,065 Bekah: It was a trap for you? -Okay, wait. Let me -- +Okay, wait. Let me-- -846 +850 00:31:39,345 --> 00:31:41,384 Dan: I think it was on Twitter. -847 +851 00:31:41,384 --> 00:31:44,000 Bekah: Twitter. Thanks, Barrett Blake, for saying -848 +852 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,234 -the Virtual Coffee podcast is a +the Virtual Coffee Podcast is a must listen. -849 +853 00:31:48,029 --> 00:31:49,170 Dan: Yes. Thank you. -850 +854 00:31:49,420 --> 00:31:50,000 Bekah: We love it. -851 +855 00:31:51,420 --> 00:31:52,079 Dan: [Chuckles] We loved it. -852 +856 00:31:53,460 --> 00:31:57,329 Bekah: Um ... why can't I find it? Okay. -853 +857 00:31:57,329 --> 00:31:59,890 Maybe it's the history of how Virtual Coffee was found. -854 +858 00:31:59,910 --> 00:32:00,900 -Oh yes. +Oh, yes. -855 +859 00:32:00,900 --> 00:32:01,619 Dan: Yes. See? -856 +860 00:32:02,849 --> 00:32:03,240 Bekah: Go ahead. -857 +861 00:32:03,779 --> 00:32:04,890 Dan: What? I didn't found it. -858 +862 00:32:06,779 --> 00:32:10,829 -Bekah: Well, you fired me, and --- +Bekah: Well, you fired me and-- -859 +863 00:32:10,829 --> 00:32:13,601 -Dan: See? Ayu's just -- [Bekah -laughs] this is, like -- +Dan: See? Ayu's just-- [Bekah +laughs] this is, like-- -860 +864 00:32:13,605 --> 00:32:16,000 this is it. Every year, every time. Starts like that. I didn't -861 +865 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,800 fire you. Yeah. -862 +866 00:32:20,234 --> 00:32:21,194 You heard it here, folks [chuckles]. -863 +867 00:32:22,424 --> 00:32:27,404 Bekah: Dan said, "I will no longer pay you to do work." -864 +868 00:32:27,404 --> 00:32:27,704 Dan: Oh, yes. -865 -00:32:27,704 --> 00:32:32,015 +869 +00:32:27,704 --> 00:32:32,100 Bekah: So you all are welcome to -define that as you see +define that as you see fit. -866 -00:32:32,075 --> 00:32:32,100 -fit. - -867 +870 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:34,500 -Dan: I don't -- +Dan: I don't-- -868 +871 00:32:34,300 --> 00:32:37,454 Bekah: We should have them vote for their favorite Virtual -869 +872 00:32:37,454 --> 00:32:39,194 Coffee host and see who wins. -870 +873 00:32:40,484 --> 00:32:41,934 Dan: That doesn't sound very fun for me [laughs]. -871 +874 00:32:43,559 --> 00:32:44,970 Bekah: [Laughs] I mean, you mi- you're probably a lot -872 +875 00:32:44,970 --> 00:32:45,839 of people's favorites. -873 +876 00:32:45,859 --> 00:32:48,000 Dan: Hmm ... I doubt it. It'll -probably be like, +probably be, like, -874 +877 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,660 just one of our guests would win [chuckles]. -875 +878 00:32:51,660 --> 00:32:52,000 Bekah: One of our gue- Kirk. -876 +879 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,000 Bekah: Kirk is gonna be the one that wins. -877 +880 00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:53,000 Dan: Yeah. It would gonna be Kirk! -878 +881 00:32:54,005 --> 00:32:55,410 -It would be -- he would get my +It would be-- he would get my vote, honestly. -879 +882 00:32:55,414 --> 00:32:57,240 Bekah: Yeah. Yeah. I vote for Kirk too. -880 +883 00:32:57,329 --> 00:32:58,410 Everybody vote for Kirk. -881 +884 00:32:58,414 --> 00:33:01,799 Dan: All right. It is decided. [Chuckles] K-kirk is favorite. -882 +885 00:33:02,130 --> 00:33:04,230 Alright. I mean, sh-should we, like, finish the story if -883 +886 00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:05,250 people haven't heard this? -884 +887 00:33:06,930 --> 00:33:10,000 Bekah: [Laughs] I guess so. Okay. So, Dan and I -885 +888 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:10,440 work together. -886 +889 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,880 -Dan: So -- yes. And then the -shutdown happened and all of my +Dan: So-- yes. And then the +shutdown happened, and all of my -887 +890 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,000 clients stopped giving me work. And so I had to stop -888 +891 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,319 giving Bekah work. And then something happened. I dunno. -889 +892 00:33:22,380 --> 00:33:24,900 Bekah: Yeah. Well, the- the day that I -890 +893 00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:26,000 went and picked up my kids' -schoolwork, cuz they said, +schoolwork cuz they said, -891 +894 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,000 -"Oh, you're going home -- -they're going home +"Oh, you're going home-- they're +going home -892 +895 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,500 for three weeks," which they never went back that year. -893 +896 00:33:30,500 --> 00:33:30,720 Dan: Yeah. -894 +897 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,000 Bekah: Dan was like, "Hey, wanna catch up?" -895 +898 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,359 [Laughs] And I was like, "Oh, no." -896 +899 00:33:36,420 --> 00:33:41,000 -And it was oh, no. So I -- when -Dan hired me right +And it was, "Oh, no." So I-- +when Dan hired me right -897 +900 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,375 -outta bootcamp, I hadn't had -- +outta bootcamp, I hadn't had-- we didn't do an interview. -898 +901 00:33:45,375 --> 00:33:47,000 Like, we just had a conversation. -899 +902 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:48,075 Dan: Yeah. -900 +903 00:33:48,285 --> 00:33:52,125 -Bekah: And so, I was now +Bekah: And so I was now interviewing for the first time, -901 +904 00:33:52,125 --> 00:33:52,800 really ever- -902 +905 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:53,000 Dan: Yeah. -903 +906 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,305 Bekah: -with four kids at home that were trying to -904 +907 00:33:55,309 --> 00:33:58,545 be doing school at home. And it was just miserable. -905 +908 00:33:58,575 --> 00:34:01,575 Like, the interview process is soul-crushing. -906 +909 00:34:01,934 --> 00:34:03,000 -And I just found myself -- I was -like crying all +And I just found myself-- I was, +like, crying all -907 +910 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,065 the time, every night. I'm like, "This is awful." -908 +911 00:34:07,515 --> 00:34:12,480 -And so, I finally like, +And so, I finally, like, remembered ... like, everything -909 +912 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,190 I had gone through in trauma. And I was like, "I -910 +913 00:34:14,190 --> 00:34:17,760 know you shouldn't be alone and isolated in your feelings. -911 +914 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,530 Does anybody wanna meet up for a virtual coffee?" -912 +915 00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:24,000 And then people did. So I was doing it, like, one -913 +916 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,125 day a week. And then, it was at East Coast time. -914 +917 00:34:28,125 --> 00:34:30,465 And then people were like, "What about West Coast time?" -915 +918 00:34:30,465 --> 00:34:32,474 -So then I added -- I was like +So then I added-- I was, like, doing double sessions at -916 +919 00:34:32,474 --> 00:34:35,000 one point. Like, Fridays, I was doing in the morning, -917 +920 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,000 taking a break for an hour or two, and then -918 +921 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,000 doing in the afternoon. And it -was- it was not -- +was-- it was not-- -919 +922 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,425 like, I'm an introvert. I- I- I say I'm an introvert. -920 +923 00:34:43,664 --> 00:34:46,905 -But I -- like, by that, I was +But I-- like, by that, I was, like, I don't -- I enjoyed -921 +924 00:34:46,905 --> 00:34:49,664 it, but I didn't, like, wanna -people anymore for like +people anymore for, like, -922 +925 00:34:49,875 --> 00:34:51,500 the rest of the weekend. That was just- -923 +926 00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:51,800 Dan: Yeah, yeah. -924 +927 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,700 Bekah: -too intense. But -925 +928 00:34:53,700 --> 00:34:56,700 then, we just kept going. And, like, people were like, "Hey, -926 +929 00:34:56,700 --> 00:35:00,000 why don't you have a Slack?" And -so, I think Brian, initially, is +so I think Brian, initially, -927 +930 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,000 --- he was like, "Here's a +is-- he was like, "Here's a Slack." I'm like [chuckles], -928 +931 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,000 "Okay." [Dan chuckles] And then he was like, -929 +932 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:08,000 "Let's do lunch and learns." Okay. Then we did a newsletter, -930 +933 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,199 and then I've always wanted a podcast. -931 +934 00:35:10,619 --> 00:35:12,599 And Cameron, I think, was like, "When are we -932 +935 00:35:12,599 --> 00:35:14,000 gonna do the podcast?" And you were like, -933 +936 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,300 "Let's do a podcast." So we just- -934 +937 00:35:17,700 --> 00:35:18,000 Dan: Yeah. -935 +938 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,590 Bekah: -kept going with it. -936 +939 00:35:19,679 --> 00:35:20,000 Dan: Yep. -937 +940 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,340 Bekah: And Dan- Dan did hire me back for a while. -938 +941 00:35:23,519 --> 00:35:23,699 Dan: Yeah. -939 +942 00:35:24,210 --> 00:35:24,690 -Bekah: So -- +Bekah: So-- -940 +943 00:35:25,079 --> 00:35:27,000 Dan: As soon as I was able to, I guess [??] [laughs]. -941 +944 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,500 Bekah: [Giggles] He only fired me for a little bit. -942 +945 00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:29,949 -Dan: Oh, my god. +Dan: Oh my god. -943 +946 00:35:29,989 --> 00:35:32,190 I didn't fire you. That's not the right word. -944 +947 00:35:32,190 --> 00:35:34,769 You're using the word incorrectly. I feel like- -945 +948 00:35:34,829 --> 00:35:35,710 Bekah: Oh. What is the definition? -946 +949 00:35:36,914 --> 00:35:38,925 Dan: I feel like, if you're gonna fire somebody, it has to -947 +950 00:35:38,925 --> 00:35:45,074 -be for, like, a reason. Like a --- it's -- laid off is maybe +be for, like, a reason. Like a-- +it's-- laid off is maybe -948 +951 00:35:45,074 --> 00:35:46,700 -what -- other -- like, probably +what-- other-- like, probably doesn't really apply to -949 +952 00:35:46,700 --> 00:35:47,864 -contractors, but like, +contractors but, like, -950 +953 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,000 that's closer to what it is, right? Laid off means the -951 +954 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,625 company has to stop, you know, can't pay you anymore. -952 +955 00:35:53,894 --> 00:35:55,875 Bekah: However you wanna justify it in your head, Dan. -953 +956 00:35:55,994 --> 00:36:02,000 -Dan: Oh, god. Whatever. [Bekah +Dan: Oh god. Whatever. [Bekah chuckles] You better watch or -954 +957 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,385 you're gonna get fired again, -cuz -- +cuz-- -955 +958 00:36:04,829 --> 00:36:07,800 Bekah: You can't fire me [chuckles]. I don't work for -956 +959 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:08,070 you anymore. -957 +960 00:36:09,039 --> 00:36:11,219 -Dan: I definitely can, and I +Dan: I definitely can and I will. -958 +961 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,070 Bekah: You can't fire me if I don't work for you. -959 +962 00:36:14,070 --> 00:36:16,380 -Dan: You can't tell me -- don't -tell me my truth, okay. +Dan: You can't tell me-- don't +tell me my truth, okay? -960 +963 00:36:19,079 --> 00:36:20,500 Bekah: [All laugh] All right. -You go ahead, and you try and +You go ahead, and you try, and -961 +964 00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:24,000 fire me, and see how that goes. -Are you- are you firing me +Are you-- are you firing me -962 +965 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,489 as part of the pod- as your -podcast cohost? +podcast co-host? -963 +966 00:36:29,885 --> 00:36:32,324 Dan: No. I don't think a lot of people would tune into -964 +967 00:36:32,324 --> 00:36:35,925 -the "Just Dan" podcast. Dan -talks to himself podcast. +the Just Dan Podcast. Dan Talks +to Himself Podcast. -965 +968 00:36:36,585 --> 00:36:38,684 Bekah: I would tune into Dan -talks to himself podcast. +Talks to Himself Podcast. -966 +969 00:36:39,675 --> 00:36:41,114 Dan: Yeah, but you'd just heckle -me. So -- +me. So-- -967 +970 00:36:41,804 --> 00:36:43,600 Bekah: Yeah. I would probably heckle you. -968 +971 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:44,025 Dan: Yeah. -969 +972 00:36:44,655 --> 00:36:46,485 Bekah: Well, tomorrow, when I speak at PubConf, you're -970 +973 00:36:46,485 --> 00:36:47,385 allowed to heckle me though. -971 +974 00:36:47,775 --> 00:36:48,135 Dan: Yes. -972 +975 00:36:48,614 --> 00:36:49,695 Bekah: Please. Heckle. Me. -973 +976 00:36:50,804 --> 00:36:53,000 Dan: I ... yes, I will. -974 +977 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:55,500 Bekah: All right. -975 +978 00:36:55,500 --> 00:37:00,554 -Dan: I -- are you glad or sad +Dan: I-- are you glad or sad -976 +979 00:37:00,554 --> 00:37:02,474 -that I didn't say -- yell +that I didn't say-- yell "Wuddup, Bek," at the -977 +980 00:37:02,474 --> 00:37:03,914 beginning of your talk this morning? I- I thought -978 +981 00:37:03,914 --> 00:37:04,184 about it. -979 +982 00:37:06,675 --> 00:37:10,000 Bekah: [Laughs] I- I- I think I'm glad that you did not -980 +983 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:10,724 do that. -981 +984 00:37:10,784 --> 00:37:11,565 Dan: Okay. Alright. I made the right choice. -982 +985 00:37:11,625 --> 00:37:12,500 Bekah: I was already super nervous. -983 +986 00:37:12,500 --> 00:37:12,800 -Dan: Well, that's why -- +Dan: Well, that's why-- -984 +987 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:13,695 -Bekah: And then I -- +Bekah: And then I-- -985 +988 00:37:13,784 --> 00:37:14,300 Dan: That's- that's why I didn't do it, you know? -986 +989 00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:15,045 -I didn't wanna -- +I didn't wanna-- -987 +990 00:37:15,045 --> 00:37:18,360 -Bekah: Would've been very -- I'm -not really sure how -- what +Bekah: Would've been very-- I'm +not really sure how-- what -988 +991 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:18,989 would have happened. -989 +992 00:37:18,989 --> 00:37:19,600 Dan: Yeah. I- I just, like, well, I mean, I -990 +993 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,000 figured you would just break into a laughing thing where you -991 +994 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,000 couldn't stop laughing and which would've been entertaining for -992 +995 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:27,630 -me, but probably not for you. So --- +me, but probably not for you. +So-- -993 +996 00:37:27,929 --> 00:37:28,150 Bekah: No. -994 +997 00:37:28,409 --> 00:37:29,000 -Dan: I -- that's why -- I made -the right choice. +Dan: I-- that's why-- I made the +right choice. -995 +998 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,889 Bekah: And then I would've just hid in a hole. -996 +999 00:37:31,894 --> 00:37:32,550 Dan: I just wanted you to know, I- -997 +1000 00:37:32,710 --> 00:37:33,000 -Bekah: I would've just like +Bekah: I would've just, like, stood behind- -998 +1001 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,000 Dan: -I ... considered it. -999 +1002 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,369 -Bekah: -the screen and then -- +Bekah: -the screen and then-- -1000 +1003 00:37:35,369 --> 00:37:37,949 Dan: I considered it and then chose not to, you know? -1001 +1004 00:37:37,949 --> 00:37:38,489 Bekah: Thank you. -1002 +1005 00:37:38,739 --> 00:37:39,030 Dan: Yeah. -1003 +1006 00:37:39,929 --> 00:37:40,889 Bekah: And thanks for being there. -1004 +1007 00:37:40,949 --> 00:37:43,949 Dan: Yeah. I feel like 10 years ago, me would've done it. -1005 +1008 00:37:43,949 --> 00:37:45,960 -And then -- I mean, and then +And then-- I mean, and then realized it was a bad idea -1006 +1009 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,500 after, you know? But like- like ... wouldn't have put -1007 +1010 00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:52,469 it together beforehand, you know? That that was a bad -1008 +1011 00:37:52,469 --> 00:37:52,679 idea? -1009 +1012 00:37:52,889 --> 00:37:54,900 -Bekah: I feel like the -- my +Bekah: I feel like the-- my brothers definitely -1010 +1013 00:37:54,900 --> 00:37:55,900 would have done that [chuckles]. -1011 +1014 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,469 Dan: That's what I'm saying. Yeah. -1012 +1015 00:37:58,800 --> 00:37:59,789 Bekah: All right. We have more questions. -1013 +1016 00:38:00,179 --> 00:38:00,489 Dan: I'm learning. We do? -1014 +1017 00:38:01,050 --> 00:38:02,730 Bekah: What does community mean to you? [laughs] -1015 +1018 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,494 Dan: Community? I don't know. -1016 +1019 00:38:10,155 --> 00:38:12,735 Bekah: I think community is a -group- a group of +group-- a group of -1017 +1020 00:38:12,735 --> 00:38:15,554 people that have some shared sense of belonging. -1018 +1021 00:38:15,554 --> 00:38:16,500 Dan: Mm-hmm. That's true. -1019 +1022 00:38:15,885 --> 00:38:17,000 Bekah: And there can be different degrees -1020 +1023 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:17,985 of that, right? -1021 +1024 00:38:17,985 --> 00:38:18,100 Dan: Yeah. -1022 +1025 00:38:17,985 --> 00:38:20,000 Bekah: Like, you- you all might, like, to go hiking. -1023 +1026 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:21,195 And that can be a -1024 +1027 00:38:21,195 --> 00:38:25,335 sense of community. Or it can be people that are ... you know, I -1025 +1028 00:38:25,335 --> 00:38:30,510 -love true crime podcasts. So -- +love true crime podcasts. So-- and actually my favorite -1026 -00:38:30,510 --> 00:38:32,000 -podcasters — true crime -podcasters — live in - -1027 -00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:32,309 -Kansas City. +1029 +00:38:30,510 --> 00:38:32,309 +podcasters—true crime +podcasters—live in Kansas City. -1028 +1030 00:38:32,309 --> 00:38:32,600 Dan: Whoa. -1029 +1031 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,460 -Bekah: So, I like -- thought +Bekah: So, I like-- thought about trying to get them to -1030 +1032 00:38:35,460 --> 00:38:37,650 come, like, "Can you come be part of our live podcast?" But -1031 +1033 00:38:37,650 --> 00:38:40,110 I wasn't sure how we were gonna talk about murder and Virtual -1032 +1034 00:38:40,110 --> 00:38:43,000 Coffee at the same time. -Although I have some -- +Although I have some-- -1033 +1035 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,840 no. I'm not gonna take you down that tangent. -1034 +1036 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:46,050 Dan: Oh, no. -1035 +1037 00:38:46,050 --> 00:38:49,800 -Bekah: Sorry [chuckles]. So, +Bekah: Sorry [chuckles]. So-- yeah. So, some sense -1036 +1038 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,820 of belonging. And then there's different degrees and ways -1037 +1039 00:38:53,820 --> 00:38:57,000 of ... expressing that sense of belonging. -1038 +1040 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,724 Dan: Yeah. I think that's great. Yeah. -1039 +1041 00:38:58,875 --> 00:39:01,304 And the other word that I would use is connection, right? -1040 +1042 00:39:01,304 --> 00:39:01,700 It is, like- -1041 +1043 00:39:01,700 --> 00:39:02,000 Bekah: Yeah. -1042 +1044 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:02,985 Dan: -belonging and connection. -1043 +1045 00:39:02,985 --> 00:39:05,925 -And maybe those -- maybe you +And maybe those-- maybe you can't feel belonging -1044 +1046 00:39:05,925 --> 00:39:08,500 without connection. I don't know -[chuckles]. But like, you +[chuckles]. But, like, you -1045 +1047 00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:13,000 -know, the- the -- that's the -other side of it is- is the -- +know, the- the-- that's the +other side of it is- is the-- -1046 +1048 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,940 is connecting with people, -right? Like, okay. +right? Like-- okay. -1047 +1049 00:39:14,940 --> 00:39:21,300 So, like, I'm a Guardians fan, you know? And ... I -1048 +1050 00:39:21,300 --> 00:39:22,769 don't know. We were talking about this last night, -1049 +1051 00:39:22,775 --> 00:39:24,150 which- which is why it's in my -head. But like, you +head. But, like, you -1050 +1052 00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:25,860 know, your regional sports team, lots of times, you're -1051 +1053 00:39:25,860 --> 00:39:28,000 -a fan of or whatever. And it -- -the -- you, like, some- some +a fan of or whatever. And it-- +the-- you, like, some- some -1052 +1054 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,000 sense of belonging from that, right? It is like- -1053 +1055 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:30,300 Bekah: Yeah. -1054 +1056 00:39:30,300 --> 00:39:33,489 Dan: -a ... whatever. You have the hat or whatever, you know? -1055 +1057 00:39:33,489 --> 00:39:34,000 Bekah: Yeah. And when I was in the airport, -1056 +1058 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,239 there was somebody wearing WVU tennis shoes in front of me. -1057 +1059 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:37,300 Dan: Yeah. -1058 +1060 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:38,800 Bekah: And, like, I graduated from WVU. -1059 +1061 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:39,000 Dan: Yeah, yeah. -1060 +1062 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,860 Bekah: I taught there and it -1061 +1063 00:39:41,860 --> 00:39:43,000 -was like, "Oh," like, "That +was like, "Oh," like, "that guy's my friend." -1062 +1064 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:44,440 [Chuckles] I don't know that guy. -1063 +1065 00:39:44,445 --> 00:39:48,159 Dan: Right. Right. Right. And you might connect, like, yeah. -1064 +1066 00:39:48,429 --> 00:39:49,719 -And that like creates a connect- -you know? +And that, like, creates a +connect- you know? -1065 +1067 00:39:50,019 --> 00:39:52,329 And it creates a connection. I mean, you were the -1066 +1068 00:39:52,329 --> 00:39:52,960 only one. Cuz you didn't -probably say -- +probably say-- -1067 +1069 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:54,500 Bekah: Yeah. No. I would thought about saying, "Let's go, -1068 +1070 00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:56,980 Mountaineers," but then I got a little embarrassed. So I didn't. -1069 +1071 00:39:57,159 --> 00:39:58,119 Dan: That's probably the right -call. So [laughs] -- +call. So [laughs]-- -1070 +1072 00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:58,449 Bekah: Yeah. Yeah. -1071 +1073 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:03,675 Dan: My mom does stuff like -that, you know? I would like -- +that, you know? I would like-- -1072 +1074 00:40:03,675 --> 00:40:06,735 -the -- like, with- with the Ohio +the-- like, with- with the Ohio state people, you know? -1073 +1075 00:40:06,914 --> 00:40:07,364 Bekah: Yeah! -1074 +1076 00:40:07,844 --> 00:40:09,195 -Dan: It's not -- it's never fun +Dan: It's not-- it's never fun for me anyway [Bekah laughs]. -1075 +1077 00:40:10,815 --> 00:40:14,414 [Chuckles] But ... yeah, I mean -that- that's it. Like, right. +that-- that's it. Like, right. -1076 +1078 00:40:14,420 --> 00:40:16,000 -The belonging is a great -- -like, I think that's a great -- +The belonging is a great-- like, +I think that's a great-- -1077 +1079 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:16,485 I think -1078 +1080 00:40:16,485 --> 00:40:19,545 that's like the- the- the real -key, you know? And then, yeah. +key, you know? And then-- yeah. -1079 +1081 00:40:19,545 --> 00:40:21,824 And then that sense of -connection is a-also of -- +connection is a-also of-- -1080 +1082 00:40:22,905 --> 00:40:25,005 Bekah: I was getting off the escalator here, earlier. -1081 +1083 00:40:25,005 --> 00:40:25,065 Dan: Yeah. -1082 -00:40:25,065 --> 00:40:26,505 +1084 +00:40:25,065 --> 00:40:27,945 Bekah: And some guy was waving, and I thought he was waving at -1083 -00:40:26,505 --> 00:40:27,945 -me. - -1084 +1085 00:40:27,974 --> 00:40:30,500 -And then I, like, waved back -wholehartedly at him [laughs], +me. And then I, like, waved back +wholehartedly at him [laughs]. -1085 +1086 00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:32,800 -he was, like, was actually +He was, like, was actually waving at the guy behind me. -1086 +1087 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:33,000 Dan: Yeah. -1087 +1088 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,000 Bekah: Then I didn't feel like I belonged. -1088 +1089 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,695 I felt very embarrassed for myself [laughs]. -1089 +1090 00:40:38,204 --> 00:40:40,784 Dan: You- you were not in his community of- of waving people. -1090 +1091 00:40:40,994 --> 00:40:43,184 Bekah: I- I was not- not part of that. -1091 +1092 00:40:43,635 --> 00:40:45,000 -Dan: I -- it happens to me like +Dan: I-- it happens to me, like, once a year [Bekah laughs] I'd -1092 +1093 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,500 say. It's really bad, you know? Like, just like that? -1093 +1094 00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:48,000 Yeah. -1094 +1095 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:49,755 Bekah: Yeah. -1095 +1096 00:40:50,414 --> 00:40:53,000 Dan: Yeah. There's a lot of people here. So, it's- it's -1096 +1097 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:53,295 -easy to -- +easy to-- -1097 +1098 00:40:53,295 --> 00:40:57,855 Bekah: Yeah. I hope he forgets my face. Let's see here. Okay. -1098 +1099 00:40:57,855 --> 00:40:58,000 Here's another question. -1099 +1100 00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:59,264 Dan: [Chuckles] I hope he forgets my face. -1100 +1101 00:41:00,284 --> 00:41:03,675 Bekah: At in-person events, what are some techniques or -1101 +1102 00:41:03,675 --> 00:41:07,635 tactics you use for starting a conversation with a stranger? -1102 +1103 00:41:08,625 --> 00:41:11,235 I- I am, like, terrified of talking with strangers. And I'm -1103 +1104 00:41:11,235 --> 00:41:14,704 -on booth duty while I'm here, -for work at DeepGram. +on booth duty while I'm here—for +work at DeepGram. -1104 +1105 00:41:14,804 --> 00:41:14,864 Dan: Yeah. -1105 +1106 00:41:15,105 --> 00:41:16,875 Bekah: And I guess it almost makes it a little -1106 +1107 00:41:16,875 --> 00:41:19,195 -bit easier, cuz I'm like, "I'm +bit easier cuz I'm like, "I'm deep- part of DeepGram. -1107 +1108 00:41:19,215 --> 00:41:20,925 We're a speech to text API company." So at least, like, I -1108 +1109 00:41:20,925 --> 00:41:26,000 can do the spiel. But sometimes -I don't -- I told +I don't-- I told -1109 +1110 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,215 a woman I liked her glasses [chuckles]. -1110 +1111 00:41:29,545 --> 00:41:30,364 Dan: What's wrong with that? -1111 +1112 00:41:30,644 --> 00:41:32,534 Bekah: No. That's how I get to talk to people. -1112 +1113 00:41:32,539 --> 00:41:33,164 Dan: Oh, sure. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. -1113 +1114 00:41:33,164 --> 00:41:34,125 Bekah: Give them a compliment. -1114 +1115 00:41:34,125 --> 00:41:36,735 Dan: Sure. Yeah, yeah. But I would say only -1115 +1116 00:41:36,735 --> 00:41:38,835 compliment, yeah, clothes and- -and stuff, right? Like -- +and stuff, right? Like-- -1116 +1117 00:41:38,925 --> 00:41:41,175 Bekah: Yeah. You have to be careful what you compliment. -1117 +1118 00:41:41,175 --> 00:41:42,000 -Dan: Especially -- I mean, +Dan: Especially-- I mean, especially if you're not a -1118 +1119 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,394 wom- if you're not a woman. -1119 +1120 00:41:43,835 --> 00:41:44,300 -Bekah: Yeah. Don't be like -- +Bekah: Yeah. Don't be like-- -1120 +1121 00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:45,000 -Dan: It's just like, don't -- +Dan: It's just, like, don't-- -1121 +1122 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:46,000 Bekah: You have really nice eyes. -1122 +1123 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,000 Dan: [Chuckles] No, yeah. -1123 +1124 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,000 Bekah: That will get creepy. -1124 +1125 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,000 -Dan: That's ... yeah. Yeah, no. +Dan: That's ... yeah. Yeah-- no. I don't have -1125 +1126 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,994 any good strategies cuz I'm really bad at it [laughs] also. -1126 -00:41:54,030 --> 00:41:55,349 -I'd say, one- one strategy -- - 1127 -00:41:55,349 --> 00:41:57,000 -Bekah: You talk to people at the -table -- +00:41:54,030 --> 00:41:55,349 +I'd say, one- one strategy-- 1128 -00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:57,630 -lunch table. +00:41:55,349 --> 00:41:57,630 +Bekah: You talk to people at the +table-- lunch table. 1129 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,900 @@ -5289,12 +5288,12 @@ already have somebody 1137 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,500 -that you're, like, with -- you -do know, because, like, we +that you're, like, with-- you do +know because, like, we 1138 00:42:14,500 --> 00:42:16,000 -sat -- Bekah and I sat next to +sat-- Bekah and I sat next to each other at the lunch table 1139 @@ -5309,7 +5308,7 @@ don't know. 1141 00:42:21,809 --> 00:42:23,019 -And then they -- we just, like, +And then they-- we just, like, started chat, you know? 1142 @@ -5319,7 +5318,7 @@ again, also hard for me 1143 00:42:26,730 --> 00:42:27,269 -[chuckles]. I'm not- I'm not +[chuckles]. I'm not-- I'm not good at it. 1144 @@ -5328,8 +5327,8 @@ Bekah: Yeah. 1145 00:42:27,750 --> 00:42:30,405 -Dan: I -- they're -- here, at -this conference, they're doing, +Dan: I-- they're-- here, at this +conference, they're doing, 1146 00:42:30,405 --> 00:42:33,405 @@ -5338,13 +5337,13 @@ they're trying to get you to 1147 00:42:33,405 --> 00:42:36,224 -go to all the speaker table -- -or the sponsor booths, that you +go to all the speaker table-- or +the sponsor booths, that you 1148 00:42:36,224 --> 00:42:39,704 can see some of them is behind -us. And -- so you have like +us. And-- so you have, like, 1149 00:42:39,704 --> 00:42:40,000 @@ -5400,7 +5399,7 @@ of that in our booth. 1160 00:43:01,605 --> 00:43:02,000 -Dan: I'm like- like -- +Dan: I'm like- like-- 1161 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:02,474 @@ -5419,7 +5418,7 @@ people was like, "Have you heard 1164 00:43:05,355 --> 00:43:10,065 of us?" I'm like, "No, -[inaudible]. I haven't." I -- +[inaudible]. I haven't." I-- 1165 00:43:10,155 --> 00:43:10,815 @@ -5427,7 +5426,7 @@ Bekah: That's awkward. 1166 00:43:10,994 --> 00:43:13,769 -Dan: And like, also, I'm not +Dan: And, like-- also, I'm not looking for a job. And that's 1167 @@ -5437,12 +5436,12 @@ people are here to hire. 1168 00:43:15,630 --> 00:43:19,000 -Which makes a lot of sense. But +Which makes a lot of sense. But, like ... I probably 1169 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,000 -wouldn't -- I don't know if this +wouldn't-- I don't know if this is a common thing to, 1170 @@ -5452,7 +5451,7 @@ every booth thing. 1171 00:43:25,559 --> 00:43:28,860 -But like, I imagine that a lot +But, like, I imagine that a lot of these booths are used to 1172 @@ -5486,7 +5485,7 @@ Like, I don't know what to say. 1178 00:43:42,974 --> 00:43:47,565 -I don't -- I'm like, I don't +I don't-- I'm like-- I don't have the ... I dunno. I could 1179 @@ -5554,11 +5553,11 @@ more conversation with him, 1192 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:17,355 -but -- +but-- 1193 00:44:18,159 --> 00:44:19,059 -Dan: No, I- I didn't -- +Dan: No, I- I didn't-- 1194 00:44:19,059 --> 00:44:21,030 @@ -5576,8 +5575,8 @@ So, that's a good way to do it? 1197 00:44:26,969 --> 00:44:30,600 -Dan: Yeah. I mean like, yeah. -And that's -- I'd say, the +Dan: Yeah. I mean, like-- yeah. +And that's-- I'd say, the 1198 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,809 @@ -5591,7 +5590,7 @@ because I was a speaker 1200 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,000 -necessarily, but like, I just +necessarily but, like, I just either knew the 1201 @@ -5603,1439 +5602,1442 @@ organizers or whatever. Bekah: Yeah. 1203 -00:44:39,119 --> 00:44:41,489 -Dan: And like -- or just, there- -there was one event in Florida +00:44:39,119 --> 00:44:40,304 +Dan: And, like-- or just-- +there- there was one event in 1204 +00:44:40,304 --> 00:44:41,489 +Florida + +1205 00:44:41,489 --> 00:44:44,534 that I went to, where they just had their after party, whatever. -1205 +1206 00:44:44,534 --> 00:44:47,414 -And all -- of course, all the +And all-- of course, all the speakers were there, and I- I -1206 +1207 00:44:47,414 --> 00:44:50,000 just kinda, like, tagged along, -[chuckles], you know? And +[chuckles], you know, and -1207 +1208 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,000 ended up at a smaller thing. And -that's like, for me, I- +that's, like-- for me, I- -1208 +1209 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,000 -I always -- I do much better in +I always-- I do much better in smaller, like, settings, -1209 +1210 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,215 you know? Like, smaller groups of people or whatever. -1210 +1211 00:44:58,215 --> 00:45:03,295 And so ... yeah. I'd- I'd say ... to go back to the -1211 +1212 00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:05,500 original question, right? Your strategies for -1212 +1213 00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:06,000 this sort of thing. -1213 +1214 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:06,300 Bekah: Yeah. -1214 +1215 00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:07,275 Dan: My main strategy is bring- bring your friend. -1215 +1216 00:45:08,114 --> 00:45:09,284 Bekah: Yeah. Yeah. It is really good. -1216 +1217 00:45:09,284 --> 00:45:13,184 Last year, at KCDC, James Quick -was here. And I just like, +was here. And I just, like, -1217 +1218 00:45:13,635 --> 00:45:15,735 followed him around, like, -everywhere. With -- - -1218 -00:45:16,094 --> 00:45:17,000 -Dan: Yeah. That's what I- that's -what I told Bekah, I was gonna +everywhere. With-- 1219 +00:45:16,094 --> 00:45:16,547 +Dan: Yeah. That's what I-- +that's what I told Bekah I was + +1220 +00:45:16,547 --> 00:45:17,000 +gonna + +1221 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,000 do to Bekah. Except that she's just sitting in this -1220 +1222 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,045 booth the whole time [chuckles]. And that's less fun. -1221 +1223 00:45:21,125 --> 00:45:21,784 Bekah: Not the whole time. -1222 +1224 00:45:22,085 --> 00:45:22,664 Dan: No, not the whole time. -1223 +1225 00:45:22,670 --> 00:45:23,000 Bekah: Some of the time I'm not. -1224 +1226 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:23,700 Dan: Obviously right now- -1225 +1227 00:45:23,700 --> 00:45:24,500 Bekah: And now I'm podcasting. -1226 +1228 00:45:24,500 --> 00:45:25,155 Dan: -you're sitting right here- -1227 +1229 00:45:25,155 --> 00:45:25,695 Bekah: Yeah. -1228 +1230 00:45:25,695 --> 00:45:26,204 Dan: -which is cool. -1229 +1231 00:45:26,324 --> 00:45:27,855 Bekah: I gotta go back to the booth after this though. -1230 +1232 00:45:27,855 --> 00:45:28,605 Dan: Right. Yes. Yep. -1231 +1233 00:45:28,605 --> 00:45:31,545 Bekah: But then tomorrow, I'm free in the afternoon. -1232 +1234 00:45:31,574 --> 00:45:33,454 Dan: Yeah. What was that? -1233 +1235 00:45:35,159 --> 00:45:37,000 Bekah: Yeah. So, I would say bringing -1234 +1236 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,000 -your friend is nice. And it -- -or it doesn't even have to be +your friend is nice. And it-- or +it doesn't even have to be -1235 +1237 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,500 like a 'friend' friend. Just put it out there on Twitter -1236 +1238 00:45:41,500 --> 00:45:44,820 -or whatever, social media, like, +or whatever social media, like, "Hey, is anybody going? -1237 +1239 00:45:44,820 --> 00:45:45,690 Want to meet up?" -1238 +1240 00:45:45,780 --> 00:45:48,600 Dan: Yeah. Yep. That's another -1239 +1241 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:54,150 good strategy as well. Yeah, I did the same thing- -1240 +1242 00:45:54,179 --> 00:45:54,500 Bekah: Yeah. -1241 +1243 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:55,019 Dan: -with Rizél. I was trying to get -1242 +1244 00:45:55,019 --> 00:45:57,000 her to come find us as lunch. Cuz she was- -1243 +1245 00:45:57,700 --> 00:45:58,000 Bekah: Yeah. -1244 +1246 00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,000 -Dan: -she was at your talk, and -I didn't know that. +Dan: -she was at your talk and I +didn't know that. -1245 +1247 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:01,600 -And I probably missed her, but -anyway -- +And I probably missed her but, +anyway-- -1246 +1248 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,389 Bekah: It- it is hard when you're by yourself. -1247 +1249 00:46:03,449 --> 00:46:04,000 I- I mean- -1248 +1250 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:04,300 -Dan: Yeah. I -- +Dan: Yeah. I-- -1249 +1251 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,070 Bekah: -I've been to conferences that were -1250 +1252 00:46:05,070 --> 00:46:09,000 -terrible experiences. Because -like, there one -- I +terrible experiences. Because, +like, there one-- I -1251 +1253 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,039 can't remember which one it was. Within the last year. -1252 +1254 00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:13,079 Like, I would go sit down at the -lunch table, and people +lunch table and people -1253 +1255 00:46:13,085 --> 00:46:15,179 -would just like [laughs] stand +would just, like, [laughs] stand up and walk away. And then I'd -1254 +1256 00:46:15,179 --> 00:46:16,500 just be sitting there by myself. -1255 +1257 00:46:16,500 --> 00:46:17,000 Dan: Yeah. -1256 +1258 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:18,960 Bekah: I'm like, "Oh ... all right. -1257 +1259 00:46:19,050 --> 00:46:20,800 I'm just gonna continue to sit here- -1258 +1260 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:21,090 Dan: Yeah. -1259 +1261 00:46:21,199 --> 00:46:21,739 Bekah: -by myself." -1260 +1262 00:46:21,769 --> 00:46:23,000 -Dan: Yeah, yeah. No. I -- when -I'm -- when I- +Dan: Yeah, yeah. No. I-- when +I'm-- when I- -1261 +1263 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,700 -I've -- I think I've only gone -to one, like, big conference +I've-- I think I've only gone to +one, like, big conference -1262 +1264 00:46:25,700 --> 00:46:28,710 by myself. And I just turned into like a ball person. -1263 +1265 00:46:28,829 --> 00:46:31,199 Like, I honestly, like, put my headphones on, I'd read my book, -1264 +1266 00:46:31,469 --> 00:46:33,719 like, or something, you know? Put my, like, op- open my -1265 +1267 00:46:33,809 --> 00:46:36,510 -computer. I- I'm not good at it. -That's why it's nice +computer. I-- I'm not good at +it. That's why it's nice -1266 +1268 00:46:36,510 --> 00:46:38,010 to have a friend, you know? -1267 +1269 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,619 -Bekah: The other thing would be, +Bekah: The other thing would be you can talk -1268 +1270 00:46:40,619 --> 00:46:41,600 to speakers, you know? -1269 +1271 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:41,800 Dan: Yeah. -1270 +1272 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,000 Bekah: So if you are there by yourself, -1271 +1273 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:44,700 then go up to the speaker and- -1272 +1274 00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:45,000 Dan: Yeah. -1273 +1275 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,500 -Bekah: -talk or, like, what -- +Bekah: -talk or, like, what-- our- -1274 +1276 00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:50,070 our badges say if we're speakers -or- or not, +or- or not -1275 +1277 00:46:50,070 --> 00:46:53,730 and what company ... oh, mine doesn't say what -1276 +1278 00:46:53,730 --> 00:46:56,670 company I'm with. Maybe cuz I'm a speaker. -1277 +1279 00:46:56,699 --> 00:46:59,000 I'm not really sure. Does yours? -1278 +1280 00:46:59,000 --> 00:46:59,300 Dan: No. -1279 +1281 00:46:59,300 --> 00:47:00,929 Bekah: No. Yours says attendee. -1280 +1282 00:47:00,929 --> 00:47:02,000 -Dan: I'm an attendee -- +Dan: I'm an attendee-- -1281 +1283 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,050 Bekah: Well, you can just go up to him and be like, "So, I see -1282 +1284 00:47:04,050 --> 00:47:05,099 you're an attendee too." [laughs] -1283 +1285 00:47:07,619 --> 00:47:08,000 Dan: [Laughs] Yeah. That's the kind of thing -1284 +1286 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,000 that I imagine saying. And then, you know, -1285 +1287 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,179 realize it's a bad idea, and -then, you know -- +then, you know-- -1286 +1288 00:47:12,179 --> 00:47:13,769 Bekah: Jokes are a good way. -1287 +1289 00:47:13,769 --> 00:47:16,079 Just go up to somebody random and tell them a joke- -1288 +1290 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,139 Dan: I never remember jokes. [Inaudible]. -1289 +1291 00:47:16,139 --> 00:47:17,280 Bekah: -I think that's a good idea. -1290 +1292 00:47:17,699 --> 00:47:23,280 -Dan: I -- my- my- father-in-law +Dan: I-- my- my- father-in-law is the same -1291 +1293 00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,349 -way I think i-is your Dad but -- +way I think i-is your Dad but-- and he'll do the same thing. -1292 +1294 00:47:25,349 --> 00:47:27,449 -He'll do -- drop a joke or like, +He'll do-- drop a joke or, like, just random, you know, -1293 +1295 00:47:27,449 --> 00:47:31,000 -thing, or make a comment. And -like -- one time, he- one +thing, or make a comment. And, +like-- one time, he-- one -1294 +1296 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,000 -time, he was -- this is on -- we +time, he was-- this is on-- we were on vacation, heard a -1295 +1297 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,000 lady talking to her friend at -the grocery store. And was +the grocery store and was-- -1296 +1298 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,769 -like, she was telling some -- it -wasn't like a personal -- +like, she was telling some-- it +wasn't like a personal-- -1297 +1299 00:47:40,769 --> 00:47:42,449 -it was a personal story, but not -like a- not like +it was a personal story but not +like a-- not like -1298 +1300 00:47:42,449 --> 00:47:44,000 a, you know, private story. -1299 +1301 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:44,300 Bekah: Yeah. -1300 +1302 00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:47,500 -Dan: But like -- and then saw +Dan: But, like-- and then saw her at some other -1301 -00:47:47,500 --> 00:47:48,837 +1303 +00:47:47,500 --> 00:47:49,700 store, like, later, and he was like, "Hey, how about that -1302 -00:47:48,837 --> 00:47:50,174 -thingy - -1303 -00:47:50,175 --> 00:47:50,744 -thing?" You know? - 1304 +00:47:49,700 --> 00:47:50,744 +thingy thing," you know? + +1305 00:47:50,925 --> 00:47:51,585 Bekah: Oh, that's creepy! [Laughs] -1305 +1306 00:47:52,344 --> 00:47:53,925 Dan: Oh, yeah, I know. I'm like, "That's a horrible act." -1306 +1307 00:47:54,224 --> 00:47:56,000 And he's like, "Yeah. And she- she acted kind -1307 +1308 00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,715 of weird about it." [All laugh] I'm like, "Yeah, no kidding, -1308 +1309 00:47:59,715 --> 00:48:03,000 man." So, don't do that. I'd say. -1309 +1310 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:03,500 Bekah: No. -1310 +1311 00:48:03,500 --> 00:48:04,635 -Dan: Yeah. I mean -- +Dan: Yeah. I mean-- -1311 +1312 00:48:04,635 --> 00:48:07,000 Bekah: That's why I bolt my door shut- -1312 +1313 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:07,300 Dan: Right [laughs]. -1313 +1314 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,795 Bekah: -in the hotel. And stack up furniture against the door. -1314 +1315 00:48:09,795 --> 00:48:11,000 Dan: And he's not creepy. That's -the- that's the +the-- that's the -1315 +1316 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,000 -thing, you know? He's just like +thing, you know? He's just, like ... he thought it -1316 +1317 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,000 would be funny, you know? And ... it wasn't. -1317 +1318 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,000 Bekah: That's not. -1318 +1319 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,094 Dan: He didn't keep following -her. So -- +her. So-- -1319 +1320 00:48:21,644 --> 00:48:23,000 -Bekah: [Laughs] Sorry again, a +Bekah: [Laughs] Sorry again a year later and brought -1320 +1321 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:23,804 it up again? -1321 +1322 00:48:24,755 --> 00:48:25,784 Dan: Right. Showed up at her house. -1322 +1323 00:48:27,700 --> 00:48:31,815 Anyway ... sorry, Phil. [Bekah -laughs] That was -- I love you. +laughs] That was-- I love you. -1323 +1324 00:48:31,815 --> 00:48:35,190 -Bekah: Um -- +Bekah: Um-- -1324 +1325 00:48:35,190 --> 00:48:36,179 Dan: Do we have any more -questions, or -- +questions, or-- -1325 +1326 00:48:36,269 --> 00:48:38,000 Bekah: Okay. Travis followed up, "But I -1326 +1327 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,000 always like slapping language and framework stickers on -1327 +1328 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,000 things, but they seem better for keeping the conversation -1328 +1329 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:48,389 going than starting it." Yeah. That can be a good way to do it. -1329 +1330 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:48,690 Dan: What? What? What? -1330 +1331 00:48:49,710 --> 00:48:51,960 Bekah: Like, language or framework stickers? Like, -1331 +1332 00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,210 talking -1332 +1333 00:48:54,210 --> 00:48:58,619 about those things that you do? Like, as a conversation starter. -1333 +1334 00:48:58,619 --> 00:49:00,539 Like, if my water bottle had a- -1334 +1335 00:49:01,019 --> 00:49:01,239 -Dan: Oh -- +Dan: Oh-- -1335 +1336 00:49:01,409 --> 00:49:03,000 -Bekah: -React sticker on it -- +Bekah: -React sticker on it-- -1336 +1337 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,000 Dan: Talk to me about React stuff and that kinda thing? -1337 +1338 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,000 Bekah: "Oh, you know React too. Hey." -1338 +1339 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:06,800 Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. -1339 +1340 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:07,200 Bekah: Yeah. -1340 +1341 00:49:07,500 --> 00:49:07,769 Dan: That's cool. -1341 +1342 00:49:08,429 --> 00:49:12,554 -Yeah. I -- yeah. That's a good +Yeah. I-- yeah. That's a good idea. -1342 +1343 00:49:13,364 --> 00:49:19,905 -I was -- [chuckles] I started +I was-- [chuckles] I started talking about Tailwind to one of -1343 +1344 00:49:19,905 --> 00:49:21,735 the sponsor booths that I was having random conversations -1344 +1345 00:49:21,735 --> 00:49:25,574 -with, and I- I -- pretty sure I +with, and I- I-- pretty sure I bored them cuz I just, like, -1345 +1346 00:49:25,574 --> 00:49:27,000 saw their eyes crossing -[laughs]. Not bored them, but, +[laughs]. Not bored them but, -1346 +1347 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:28,394 like, I went off on a -1347 +1348 00:49:28,394 --> 00:49:31,000 Tailwind tangent. And they were not interested in -1348 +1349 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,000 that content [laughs]. So [inaudible]. -1349 +1350 00:49:33,195 --> 00:49:35,235 Bekah: You can also go up to each of the booths and -1350 +1351 00:49:35,235 --> 00:49:37,155 practice a different accent. -1351 +1352 00:49:37,605 --> 00:49:37,695 Dan: Ooh. -1352 +1353 00:49:38,284 --> 00:49:40,304 Bekah: So, try the same conversation- -1353 +1354 00:49:40,394 --> 00:49:40,824 Dan: [With thick accent] Oh, ya. -1354 +1355 00:49:40,905 --> 00:49:43,094 Bekah: -in a different accent every time [laughs]. -1355 +1356 00:49:43,755 --> 00:49:44,500 -Dan: I was -- how- how many +Dan: I was-- how- how many accents? What ac- what accent -1356 +1357 00:49:44,500 --> 00:49:46,244 -do you got? What's your- what's -your go to -- +do you got? What's your-- what's +your go to-- -1357 +1358 00:49:46,244 --> 00:49:48,315 -Bekah: Oh, I don't do -- I can't +Bekah: Oh, I don't do-- I can't do any accents. -1358 +1359 00:49:48,324 --> 00:49:49,000 Dan: [With accent] You can't do any accents? -1359 +1360 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:49,200 Bekah: No. -1360 +1361 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:50,954 Dan: [With accent] You can't do a German accent? -1361 +1362 00:49:51,184 --> 00:49:52,000 Bekah: No! -1362 +1363 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,525 -Dan: What about- what about like -Arnold [Schwarzenegger] -- +Dan: What about-- what about, +like, Arnold [Schwarzenegger]-- -1363 +1364 00:49:56,125 --> 00:49:58,244 Bekah: Ambrose is really good. He's been practicing his British -1364 +1365 00:49:58,244 --> 00:49:58,724 accent. -1365 +1366 00:49:59,105 --> 00:49:59,800 -Dan: At the -- "[With Arnold's +Dan: At the-- "[With Arnold's accent] Get to -1366 +1367 00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:01,000 the chopper," you know? "[With Arnold's accent] We need -1367 +1368 00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:02,500 -to do the -- we need to add the +to do the-- we need to add the -1368 +1369 00:50:02,500 --> 00:50:09,210 React to the Remix. Now! Bekah!" [laughs] -1369 +1370 00:50:09,210 --> 00:50:10,170 -Bekah: I'm not- I'm not gonna +Bekah: I'm not-- I'm not gonna try. -1370 +1371 00:50:10,170 --> 00:50:11,699 I'm not even. I was thinking about it. -1371 +1372 00:50:11,699 --> 00:50:14,159 Like, "I think I can do that." I can't do that. -1372 +1373 00:50:14,639 --> 00:50:16,889 Dan: Every time I think I can speak -1373 +1374 00:50:16,889 --> 00:50:18,090 in a British accent, it does not go well. -1374 +1375 00:50:18,094 --> 00:50:19,800 I- I feel like I need to get warmed up on a British -1375 +1376 00:50:19,804 --> 00:50:20,099 accent. -1376 +1377 00:50:20,099 --> 00:50:22,000 Bekah: I like mixed British and Australian- -1377 +1378 00:50:21,700 --> 00:50:23,000 Dan: Well- well, I'm not saying -of -- oh, my god. +of-- oh my god. -1378 +1379 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,000 Bekah: -but I hear that that is not uncommon. -1379 +1380 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:30,000 Like, my coworker, my teammate is ... he is from England. -1380 +1381 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:30,300 Dan: Uh-huh. -1381 +1382 00:50:30,300 --> 00:50:32,000 -Bekah: And he said, whenever -he's in +Bekah: And he said whenever he's +in -1382 +1383 00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,565 the US, people either think he's from Australia or England. -1383 +1384 00:50:35,565 --> 00:50:38,000 They're not usually really sure. -And he asked the -- one of +And he asked the-- one of -1384 +1385 00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,000 the people when we were together, she was like, -1385 +1386 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,315 "Oh, that accent." He was like, "Where do you think I'm from?" -1386 +1387 00:50:42,315 --> 00:50:45,525 And she was like, "It's either British or Australian." -1387 +1388 00:50:45,525 --> 00:50:47,385 [Dan laughs] He was like, "Yep." -1388 +1389 00:50:48,945 --> 00:50:51,885 -Dan: Yeah. I had -- when I -- -when -- I went to +Dan: Yeah. I had-- when I-- +when-- I went to -1389 +1390 00:50:51,885 --> 00:50:58,275 Scotlands, like, a long time ago ... before kids. -1390 +1391 00:50:59,324 --> 00:51:01,545 So, more than six years ago -[chuckles], I don't know. +[chuckles]-- I don't know. -1391 +1392 00:51:01,550 --> 00:51:03,000 -I don't know how much more -- -but -- no, I really +I don't know how much more-- +but-- no, I really -1392 +1393 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,000 practiced it when I was there. I -had -- I felt like I had a +had-- I felt like I had a -1393 +1394 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,000 -pretty good Scottish -- go -- -oh, no. It's pass the thing. +pretty good Scottish-- go-- oh, +no. It's pass the thing. -1394 +1395 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,000 -[Silence] I think- I think it +[Silence] I think-- I think it keeps recording. I think it's -1395 +1396 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:15,335 just a screensaver. -1396 +1397 00:51:15,335 --> 00:51:16,835 I think it keeps recording when it does that. But -1397 +1398 00:51:17,824 --> 00:51:20,000 I didn't wanna risk it. Anyway ... yeah, I had a good -1398 +1399 00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:21,275 Scottish accent going for a while. -1399 +1400 00:51:21,635 --> 00:51:23,500 Learned some good words too. Have you heard the -1400 +1401 00:51:23,500 --> 00:51:24,034 word 'shuggled'? -1401 +1402 00:51:24,784 --> 00:51:25,114 Bekah: What? -1402 +1403 00:51:25,155 --> 00:51:28,715 Dan: Shuggled. Shuggled is like ... shaken, you know? -1403 +1404 00:51:28,894 --> 00:51:28,954 Bekah: Oh. -1404 +1405 00:51:28,954 --> 00:51:31,934 Dan: Like- like shooken up, you know? As a bus driver was -1405 +1406 00:51:31,940 --> 00:51:34,545 driving over some bumpy stuff -and then -- and- and she was +and then-- and- and she was -1406 +1407 00:51:34,905 --> 00:51:37,000 -like -- something about, "Sorry +like-- something about, "Sorry to keep you all shuggled," -1407 +1408 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:37,275 or something. [Laughs] -1408 +1409 00:51:38,894 --> 00:51:40,574 -It was- it was really fun. I +It was-- it was really fun. I like accents. -1409 +1410 00:51:40,605 --> 00:51:42,195 I'm not, like, good at practicing them, but ... -1410 +1411 00:51:42,344 --> 00:51:44,700 that's a good idea. -1411 +1412 00:51:44,700 --> 00:51:45,284 Bekah: Yeah. -1412 +1413 00:51:45,775 --> 00:51:46,300 Dan: Alright. -1413 +1414 00:51:46,300 --> 00:51:47,059 Bekah: Practice your accents. -1414 +1415 00:51:47,059 --> 00:51:49,244 Dan: I feel like the German one is my go-to. -1415 +1416 00:51:49,514 --> 00:51:50,000 Bekah: That's a good one. -1416 +1417 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,545 Dan: It's like a ... quirky German. Do you know it? -1417 +1418 00:51:52,844 --> 00:51:53,465 Bekah: Quirky German [laughs]? -1418 +1419 00:51:53,469 --> 00:51:54,614 Dan: Yeah. Not like a serious German. -1419 +1420 00:51:54,795 --> 00:51:57,000 -There's like serious German. And -there's like, you +There's, like, serious German. +And there's, like, you -1420 +1421 00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:01,000 know ... fun, silly German. It's like Hans and Franz, you -1421 +1422 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:02,505 know, from "Saturday Night Live"? -1422 +1423 00:52:02,804 --> 00:52:03,224 Bekah: Mm-mm. -1423 +1424 00:52:03,224 --> 00:52:03,554 Dan: Bekah. -1424 +1425 00:52:06,324 --> 00:52:08,025 Bekah: "Saturday Night Live" is on too late. -1425 +1426 00:52:09,315 --> 00:52:12,045 Dan: I mean, it's from when we -were like kids. So it's not like +were, like, kids. So it's not, -1426 +1427 00:52:12,434 --> 00:52:12,704 -nothing very much live -- +like-- nothing very much live-- -1427 +1428 00:52:13,065 --> 00:52:13,961 Bekah: I only know the cheerleaders. -1428 +1429 00:52:14,579 --> 00:52:15,300 Dan: The cheerleaders? -1429 +1430 00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:15,500 Bekah: Yeah. -1430 +1431 00:52:15,700 --> 00:52:16,050 -Dan: Like [inaudible] -- +Dan: Like [inaudible]-- -1431 +1432 00:52:16,380 --> 00:52:18,700 Bekah: [Soft cheering] Tacos. Burritos. What's coming outta -1432 +1433 00:52:18,700 --> 00:52:19,019 your speedos [Dan laughs]. -1433 +1434 00:52:21,210 --> 00:52:24,329 There's Bobby Fisher. Where is he? I don't know. -1434 +1435 00:52:24,329 --> 00:52:25,000 I don't know. Yeah. -1435 +1436 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:26,000 Dan: Oh, yeah, yeah. I remember that one. That's a good one. -1436 +1437 00:52:25,700 --> 00:52:27,000 -Bekah: That -- those -- and +Bekah: That-- those-- and -1437 +1438 00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:28,440 get off the shed. I used to like that. -1438 +1439 00:52:30,389 --> 00:52:32,400 That was Chris Farley, I think? -1439 +1440 00:52:33,599 --> 00:52:37,000 Dan: I don't know that one. But anyway, we've gone- -1440 +1441 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:37,469 Bekah: Yes. -1441 +1442 00:52:37,469 --> 00:52:40,469 Dan: -way off the beaten path here [laughs]. Thanks, Travis. -1442 +1443 00:52:40,469 --> 00:52:41,369 I'm blaming with Travis for that one. -1443 +1444 00:52:41,369 --> 00:52:41,610 Bekah: Yeah. -1444 +1445 00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,565 Dan: Alright. Is that the last- -1445 +1446 00:52:44,565 --> 00:52:45,000 -Bekah: I think I -- we're- +Bekah: I think I-- we're- -1446 +1447 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:45,300 Dan: -question? -1447 +1448 00:52:45,300 --> 00:52:48,284 -Bekah: -that -- we've covered +Bekah: -that-- we've covered everything. -1448 +1449 00:52:48,614 --> 00:52:55,000 Dan: Okay. Alright. I was kind of ... expecting -1449 +1450 00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,554 some of our friends to stop by and say hi, but nobody did. -1450 +1451 00:52:57,735 --> 00:52:59,655 Bekah: Well, it's also really hard to hear. -1451 +1452 00:53:00,014 --> 00:53:01,800 Dan: Well, sure. But I thought -they would coming -- +they would coming-- -1452 +1453 00:53:00,525 --> 00:53:02,894 Bekah: And I know that they're -at talk -- number +at talk-- number -1453 +1454 00:53:02,894 --> 00:53:04,155 -of them are at talks. So -- +of them are at talks. So-- -1454 +1455 00:53:05,445 --> 00:53:08,025 Dan: Yeah. Alright, cool. Well, this was ... fun. -1455 +1456 00:53:08,204 --> 00:53:10,605 Bekah: This was an excellent in-person- -1456 +1457 00:53:10,605 --> 00:53:11,500 -Dan: I hope that the -- +Dan: I hope that the-- -1457 +1458 00:53:10,784 --> 00:53:11,864 Bekah: -podcast experience. -1458 +1459 00:53:11,864 --> 00:53:13,500 Dan: Yes. It was excellent. I'm sorry that we weren't -1459 +1460 00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:16,875 able to live stream it. But ... -well, if you listen to this -- +well, if you listen to this-- -1460 +1461 00:53:16,875 --> 00:53:17,534 Bekah: We did our best. -1461 +1462 00:53:17,534 --> 00:53:19,065 Dan: If you listened to this, then I've already published it. -1462 +1463 00:53:19,065 --> 00:53:20,715 So I don't need to talk about when I'm gonna publish it. -1463 +1464 00:53:20,715 --> 00:53:21,284 Bekah: Yes. -1464 +1465 00:53:21,405 --> 00:53:23,445 Dan: [Playful] Cool. Cool, cool. Co-cool, cool, cool. -1465 +1466 00:53:23,835 --> 00:53:26,300 Bekah: All right. And we'll be back next week with another -1466 +1467 00:53:26,300 --> 00:53:26,594 podcast [laughs]. -1467 +1468 00:53:26,985 --> 00:53:29,000 -Dan: I don't -- I'm -- yeah. I'm +Dan: I don't-- I'm-- yeah. I'm having some technical issues -1468 +1469 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,000 with Descript and trying to get -that last -- trying to get +that last-- trying to get -1469 +1470 00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:32,000 -Bogdan's out. So -- +Bogdan's out. So-- -1470 +1471 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,144 Bekah: Yeah. So if anybody -works at Descript -- +works at Descript-- -1471 +1472 00:53:34,425 --> 00:53:37,005 Dan: Yep. Hopefully, we'll get that sorted out soon. -1472 +1473 00:53:37,635 --> 00:53:39,074 Bekah: Oh, actually I know someone that works at Descript. -1473 +1474 00:53:39,465 --> 00:53:39,974 Dan: Excellent. -1474 +1475 00:53:41,684 --> 00:53:42,105 Bekah: All right. -1475 +1476 00:53:42,195 --> 00:53:42,824 Dan: [Laughs] Have them call me. -1476 +1477 00:53:44,625 --> 00:53:46,000 Bekah: As usual, we're very good at concluding -1477 +1478 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:47,474 our podcast episode. -1478 +1479 00:53:47,655 --> 00:53:50,224 Dan: Yes. This is been the -Virtual Coffee podcast -- +Virtual Coffee Podcast-- -1479 +1480 00:53:50,565 --> 00:53:51,105 Bekah: Live edition. -1480 +1481 00:53:51,105 --> 00:53:52,844 Dan: Live ... edition -1481 +1482 00:53:52,934 --> 00:53:53,700 Bekah: Live from- -1482 +1483 00:53:53,700 --> 00:53:54,500 -Dan: Live from -- +Dan: Live from-- -1483 +1484 00:53:54,500 --> 00:53:55,144 Bekah: -Kansas City. -1484 +1485 00:53:55,144 --> 00:54:01,000 Dan: Beautiful Kansas City. And ... I've seen about two -1485 +1486 00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,000 square feet of it [laughs] because the hotel is right next -1486 +1487 00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,599 to the conference center, but -it's been cool so far. So -- +it's been cool so far. So-- -1487 +1488 00:54:07,289 --> 00:54:08,070 Bekah: Love Kansas City. -1488 +1489 00:54:08,159 --> 00:54:08,340 Dan: Yes. -1489 +1490 00:54:08,340 --> 00:54:09,000 Bekah: It's a good place. -1490 +1491 00:54:09,269 --> 00:54:14,000 Dan: We'll be back ... [whisper] tomorrow? No. Wednesday? I'll be -1491 +1492 00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,000 -back Wednesday night. So -- +back Wednesday night. So-- -1492 +1493 00:54:17,700 --> 00:54:18,000 Bekah: Yeah. -1493 +1494 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:18,700 Dan: Is that when you're going -1494 +1495 00:54:18,700 --> 00:54:21,840 back? Wednesday early? or Thurs- or Tuesday? -1495 +1496 00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:22,590 Bekah: I leave on Wednesday. -1496 +1497 00:54:22,619 --> 00:54:24,700 -Dan: Yeah. Alright, cool. Well --- +Dan: Yeah. Alright, cool. Well-- -1497 +1498 00:54:24,700 --> 00:54:25,000 Bekah: All right. -1498 +1499 00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,315 Dan: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you [laughs]. -1499 +1500 00:54:28,574 --> 00:54:28,875 Bekah: Bye. -1500 +1501 00:54:29,054 --> 00:54:34,623 Dan: Bye. Thank you for listening to this episode of the -1501 +1502 00:54:34,623 --> 00:54:37,000 Virtual Coffee Podcast. This episode was produced by -1502 +1503 00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,000 Dan Ott and Bekah Hawrot Weigel. If you have questions -1503 +1504 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,000 or comments, you can hit us up on Twitter at -1504 +1505 00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,230 -VirtualCoffeeIO, or email us at +VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at podcast@virtualcoffee.io. -1505 +1506 00:54:46,460 --> 00:54:48,050 You can find the show notes, sign up for the -1506 +1507 00:54:48,050 --> 00:54:50,030 newsletter, check out any of our other resources on our -1507 +1508 00:54:50,030 --> 00:54:53,000 website, virtualcoffee.io. If you're interested in -1508 +1509 00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:54,050 sponsoring Virtual Coffee, you can find out more -1509 +1510 00:54:54,050 --> 00:54:58,429 information on our website at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship. -1510 +1511 00:54:58,849 --> 00:55:01,159 Please subscribe to our podcast and be sure -1511 +1512 00:55:01,159 --> 00:55:03,000 to leave us a review. Thanks for listening, and -1512 +1513 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:04,610 we'll see you next week! \ No newline at end of file